Lists for Both Teams
Let's take a look at some of these numbers above. Biggest difference I see right away is the TD totals in terms of total carries. Memphis had 29 TDs on 541 carries while VT had 19 TDs on 545 carries. Another interesting takeaway is that both VT and Memphis seemed to use 4 main RB's and the AVG carry per RB is pretty close for each team.
Scenario Time
Take Memphis's 2nd leading RB rusher Cooper he got 91 carries, VT's 2nd leading RB rusher Sam had 61 carries. Give Sam 30 more to match Coopers 91 and using Sam's AVG yards per carry you get a total of 389 yards which is exactly the same yards that Cooper had.
Take Memphis's 3rd leading RB rusher Craft he got 82 carries, VT's 3rd leading RB rusher JC had 48 carries. Give JC 34 more carries and again using his AVG yards per carry you get a total of 359 yards. That's 26 more yards than Craft.
So realistically with those two scenarios VT and Memphis's rotations should have worked. I think the biggest difference after watching film of Memphis and VT is the way each team used the RB Rotation. For the most part the numbers are pretty close in terms of carries and AVG gain, but the actual production in terms of TD's and Total yards is where the meat is. That's where Memphis excelled and this is exactly what I expect VT's rotation to look like come Fall.
RUN 3MC "Credit->HokieJeep" Sam, QB1 and Reid should have a ton of production. Sprinkle in a couple WR's and VT will be running wild!
Feel free to add discussion and suggestions for more stats and or breakdown if you want.
Comments
I think French has said that he expects our running game to improve under the new coaching staff. If the running game appears to be productive that will keep fans quiet for the most part I suspect.
rotations can work certainly but both play design and use of the rotation must be at the opportune times and I think we whiffed on that the last few years.
also for the collective stats id still divide the total yardage by the number of carries giving us a number at 3.79 ypc and memphis 4.29. That half a yard is HUGE. I expect to see improvement in our running game, I also see the running backs having more chances to make plays as we wont be 3 and out every other drive
One thing I noticed at the spring game, in 80(ish) plays we went 3-and-out twice. (maybe 3 times, but the last one would have been at the very end). That seems like a low number compared to our previous offense. I don't have the data but I'm willing to bet our offense went 3-and-out far more frequently than once every 40 plays.
3MC?
McMillian, McKenzie, McClease
Repost for great glory!
Am I doing this right?
I have no idea what you're doing, but you're doing it correctly.
Well done Jeep!!! Who knew a motor vehicle could have mad word skills. Must be a Hokie!!!
Only issue I have with your data is the Total AVG = 6.06 (w/o Cam = 4.42). I was trying to figure out how one 24 yard run changes our entire team average by a yard and half.
For the 6.06, you took the average of the averages. This is a statistic (don't remember the term) but it's not the correct statistic for what you're trying to represent. The Team Total AVG should be (2070 yards / 545 carries = ) 3.80 yards/carry. Without Cam's run would be (2046/544) = 3.76 yards/carry.
Otherwise, thanks for the information. Very informative.
Oh good lord what the F was I thinking/doing. that's why I've got ya'll!
#dumbass
fixed now.
You need to change how you calculate averages. Cam's run should not throw off the average at all. What you seem to be doing is adding up each back's average then dividing by number of backs. What you really want is to add up the number of yards, add up the number of carries, and divide the former by the latter. That gets you the true yards per carry for each team, which is the number you actually want.
So Memphis' average is 4.3 ypc, while ours is 3.8 ypc
EDIT: Seems many of us had the same thought at the same time
This is what happens when you're on the football blog of a school of engineers
one of the reasons I don't post very much :)
I think that's the first time I've seen Sam Rogers called "Sam". I had no idea who you were talking about.
so, "samrogers?"
One thing that jumps out at me is the prominence of a feature back. I'm going to exclude QB's here, since we're talking running back rotations. But let's assume that the feature back for each team is set to 100% of the workload and adjust the other backs in relation to the lead back's load, telling us how often a running back is used compared to the workhorse.
VT
Travon - 100% 200 carries
Sam Rogers - 31% 62 carries
JCC - 24% 48 carries
Trey - 24% 47 carries
Memphis
Doroland - 100% 155 carries
Jarvis - 59% 91 carries
Craft - 53% 82 carries
Henderson - 39% 60 carries
I think this is really interesting. Memphis' 4th back got more touches then our 2nd back in relation to the workhorse. The second and third backs got more work than the lead back for memphis, where as our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th backs still got less combined carries then Travon. That seems to suggest that Memphis spread the ball around a lot to their running backs (as we had already predicted), and that even the 4th back will get his shot.
The bigger question is if that distribution is a staple of the scheme, or a reaction to not having a true workhorse.
My memory of his OC days at TCU was that they rarely used more than 2-3 backs consistently. Likely more talented backfields than he had at Memphis, so using 4-5 was likely a result of there being no clear front runner.
edit: I am very specifically thinking of Aaron Brown, Ed Wesley, and Matthew Tucker trio at TCU.
"Likely more talented backfields than he had at Memphis, so using 4-5 was likely a result of there being no clear front runner."
BINGO. I think this mindset is the most logical. However, with the stable of possibilities as his disposal, maybe he uses 3-4 just to keep everyone's legs fresh. Going to interesting how he moves the RBs around and out to utilize the athletes available. Although, with the production of TM, man it's hard to take him out of the backfield as the feature back.
Or if Memphis had a number of blowouts last year and used their 4th stringer to soak up carries late.
You always need something to soak up a blowout. AmIright?
DISCLAIMER: I love CFB with the heat of a thousand suns. And I have crazy respect for JCC -an undersized dude who did the best he could behind an inconsistent (at best) O-Line, in an inconsistent (at best) scheme, and handled his business - in good times and in bad - like a man. I even loved the gold watch.
With that said, it felt like JC was shoehorned into the rotation the last 2 years (aside from those last 4 games in 2014 (when he was the feature (read: only healthy) back, and the second half of last season, when he was benched bc T-Mac got rollin'). I think Frank's (or Shane's? Prob not Lefty's) sense of loyalty got the better of us. He wasn't a pile pusher, didn't hit holes well (when there were holes), and his speed was more straight-line and not dodgy or elusive. He was an upperclassman and a leader, but very few of his "rotational" carries netted positive results.
(Come to think of it, if you added 6" and 25lbs, we could be talking about Trey Edmunds, for that matter. (Again: no ill will. Wish him the best.))
All this is to say, I really like this year's group of RB's much more as a rotate-able group. We've got three possible big horses (T-Mac, Shai-Mac, and DJ), a speedy scat-back (McClease) and a Swiss Army knife (SR45).
Pace dictates that we will need all to contribute, as opposed to these last couple seasons where indecision and injury made the RB rotation ineffective and confusing.
Are you beating the horse because it's a dead horse, or because it's a high horse?
Either way. Man, you sure showed me.
You just can't resist bringing up old stuff that has been talked about to death? Everyone else can manage to bring up new takes but you just think "hey I'll talk about how bad the old running backs and coaches were." There have been entire threads devoted to that topic. You add nothing to the conversation.
And bringing up a comment from another thread is poor form.
really accentuates the irony here
The Official TKP
Arbiter of Opinion ValidityWet Blanket has spoken.Roger's pussy carries cannot be denied.
I feel for new people just coming into this place
Insert archer "phrasing" gif
Something about the phrasing of this post in context to th one before it is off
What jumps out to me was when the hell did Lawson get 14 carries?
He was in for mop up time in the early going, along with a bit of Durkin. Most of his plays were designed runs.
I would have thought he got more than that. Anytime he came into the game you knew it was a run.
I think it can work but you should still have someone
getting the majority of the carries.
Deja vu? I'm outta here!
What I like about new scheme is that with the same personnel group we can move a pounder back, a scat back, or a wide out into an h-back, tailback, or flanker/slot position. And run the ball from any of those positions, with any of the personnel. Not to mention QB1. That kind of run game really stresses the defense in so many ways. It could be a wham block from SR45 with a McClease scampering in behind or a jet sweep to a speedy WR off the same backfield action. It's really every linebacker's worst nightmare. Your keys don't take you to the ball and your brain starts tripping up you feet.
So I think the idea of RB rotation might not even be comparable because of the completely different ways RBs are used in the two schemes. My guess is that the division of carries at Memphis was as much because the ball went to many more different positions than because a different RB was rotated in. I just think we are in for something completely different this year and I can't wait!!!!
On another note: congrats to Paxton Lynch, and his former coaches Fuente and Cornelson on getting a first round slot!
It only works if you rotate in a new back each play to keep them fresh.
The problem wasn't that they rotated backs. The problem was that of the backs in the rotation last year only one of them was good. Edmunds looked like he was running in mud and Coleman couldn't find an open hole.
Must resist......
Can they work? Yes, the Carolina Panthers showed it can be done even in the NFL with Stewart and Williams for years.
Will it work? I dunno, is Shane still our RB coach?
Hey-ohhh!
Biggest difference was not with RB, but QB. Our back up had more carries than their starter with maybe one fifth of the plays.