I got into a little debate with one of my friends about this and I wanted to bring it to TKP to see what the overall response was.
Imagine it's four years from now. Frank Beamer decides it's time to hang it up after winning his first and only national championship. Virginia Tech decides to make Bud Foster the new head coach of Virginia Tech. Because of Bud's promotion, VT needs a new defensive coordinator.
After going 32-61 in his tenure, that school in Charlottesville decides to let Mike London go. Like a little puppy dog lost in a snowstorm, he comes to Blacksburg in hopes of securing the vacant DC position.
My question to TKP: Under this scenario, would you want Mike London as our new DC?
Positives: Great recruiter, used to be a cop
Negatives: Terrible in-game management, not a Xs and Os guy, used to be a cop. The negatives would be mitigated because Bud is probably going to run the defense anyways.
Comments
London was a cop?
I would still promote Coach Gray to D Coordinator and hire V. Fuller to further continue the family legacy.
Why can I only up vote this once?!
I may have posted this before, but hypothetically, imagine if Vince, Corey, Kyle and Kendall all have 4 sons each. Our defense and receiving corps will be ridiculous in 20 years, and for an extended period of time.
Legit question (and this is obviously assuming nothing catastrophic happens) but if Corey makes the Lions (or any other) roster, and Kyle and Kendall both end up in the league, would that be the first time a set of four brothers all made it to the NFL?
Just in case, we should go ahead and secure the movie rights. 30 for 30 would definitely go for that story.
This question intrigued me so I did some research to kill some time at work. The answer to your question is NO. But...
the last time 4 brothers made it to the league was the Browner brothers - Jim, Joey, Keith, and Ross - in the 80s.
In the 40s and 50s, there were 4 Kissell brothers in the league - Adolph, Ed, John, and Vito.
But the craziest set of brothers ever to play in the NFL (besides the Gronks) were the Nesser brothers - Al, Frank, Fred, John, Phil, and Ted. 6 guys in the NFL and all at the same time! 5 of them all played together on the same team, the Columbus Panhandles, during the 1921 season.
Source: Pro Football HOF
Ok, back to work.
Cool info. Now here's an even more specific question - when was the last time four brothers, who attended the same college, played in the NFL? For that, my guess is never. VT Fullers FTW!
This may seem like a dumb question but does Bud even want to be our head coach?
He's certainly toyed at the idea of considering a head coaching job elsewhere.
He hasn't taken one yet because only lower-tier schools have offered him. I think Pitt and Vanderbilt were to closest to getting him, if I remember correctly.
He's stated in the past that he wants to be a head coach, but not at a 'graveyard' job, or something to that effect
I think the closest he came was to Clemson back in 08. That being said, Beamer and Weaver have 5 year contracts that end about the same time, if I recall correctly. My guess is that with Beamer aging, and Weaver's Parkinson's (God bless...) that the two 5 year contracts were no fluke. i.e. weaver steps down as beamer steps up. Considering Foster has not taken a head coach job, it would seem like VT has promised him that within the next few years, a change will happen.
That being said, it sort of scares me too. I think you have to let Foster coach when Beamer ultimately retires, but there is no guarantee he will be great. He is a phenomenal DC, but can he be both a great DC and HC? If not, we could lose a great DC and average HC. On the other hand, if he doesn't get the promotion and VT hires someone else, he will be out the door, I would think. Either way, he will be head coach of the hokies one day...Beamer has literally groomed him.
And as a pipe dream...Foster and Beamer help groom Shane into being a great coach and voila...coaches for the next 50 years. lol
Beamer will not be AD and should not be AD. He will have a large role in the Athletic Department as a figurehead and spokesperson, but he does not have the skills to be AD.
At the minimum he will have a large role, he is the face of VT Athletics, everyone knows him. I can see it both ways, to be honest, but I don't think AD is out of his grasp.
Being an AD is akin to running a business. You have to have that mentality and I don't think Beamer has it. It's better for our Athletic Department to hire someone from outside that will rejuvinate everything after Weaver is gone. Someone that understands the value of coaches who aren't in charge of Football or Basketball and will give them the respect and pay they deserve. See the departure of Pete Hughes as an example. Weaver may have kept us in the black, but he crippled many programs by not giving them the support they deserve. Fortunately, some have overcome those obstacles with solid coaches, but those coaches won't stick around when an opportunity for more money comes knocking and we won't give them a reason to stay.
TheFightingGobbler corrected me. A special assistant seems to be what he will get when he retires.
Beamer will be "Special Assistant to the Athletic Director" for 8 years after he retires. Take that for what you will. He will probably have as little or as much power as he likes.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/hokies-journal/post/virginia-tech-coac...
I would make the argument that Foster would be a perfect head coach, almost all of the great college coaches of late (alabama, LSU, Oregon) have been hardo's on and off of the field. While I love Beamer, I think that he has gotten softer over the years and doesn't have the intensity that Foster brings to the table. In an ideal world Foster brings back the days where the entire team played with a chip on their shoulder, God that would be awesome. It would be tough to see him give up that DC role though.
I think if Foster were coach, he would definitely be average or better. But I am a realist, and the realist in me thinks of best case and worst case. Best case, he will do great. Worst case, he won't and then we lose DC and HC.
Speaking of intense defensive coordinators that are now head coaches...
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I think Torrian Grey would do pretty awesome taking over the DC job if Foster gets promoted to HC (assuming that he doesn't get offered that position anytime soon by another school)
He isn't saying it out loud but he has been at VT for a long time and hasn't taken a HC job elsewhere. One would think either he has no ambitions to be a head coach or he's waiting on Frank to retire and wants to be available and untarnished by a failed HC job at a bad school.
Hypothetically this is how I expect Bud to react to London begging for the job.
no.
Bud becomes head coach and STILL runs the D, but he has to cut back on his super-secret missions to other parts of the world defending America and the free world from evil powers.
For some reason, now I can only picture him with an eyepatch leading Team America (...f*ck yeah!)...and I can't get the theme song out of my head.
Oh...and London at VT is the worst idea ever. Frankly I'm surprised we let him the stadium for the VT/UVA game. And anyone who thinks this is actual good idea, I point you to the last time we hired a UVA grad/coach....Ricky "Program Killer" Stokes.
+1 for Team America Reference, -1 for getting theme song stuck in my head! And Pearl Harbor Sucks and I Miss You!
If we didn't let him the stadium, who would use up all their timeouts?
We'll put it to a vote of 4 year olds. At least they'll cry less often.
I have a hard time accepting the premise that it will be four years before London is canned.
No. Torrian for DC. If he doesn't want it, Randy Shannon. Definitely bring in an alum to coach something on D, too
I believe we've tried the "great recruiter, bad coach route before". It didn't end will.
Please look for Newsome, Curt in the Hokie history books for further info.
Under no circumstances would I want him as anything other than a recruiter for us. His ties to the 757 right are pretty strong which would be valuable to us.
Is there any evidence that he's actually a good coordinator? If so I haven't seen it. I know he won a title at Richmond but I don't remember him putting on a coaching clinic those years.
FWIW, I think London is safe this year unless they're a complete disaster. If they're 4-8 or 5-7 but competitive he'll be able to point to the two 5 star recruits he's got coming in and that should buy him another year.
No way they can rely on 5-stars as a reason to keep him IMO. That would be accepting him for at least 3 more years (have to let those kids develop). So that can't be a thought that goes through the AD's mind. Then again, this is UVA and their terribleness at football boggles my mind.
I absolutely think it will be one of the reasons they keep him. Hoos would say he's still righting the ship, Groh left them with no talent and London's had to replenish it, plus London continues to bring in higher quality talent, etc. Also, keeping him because he has some recruits coming in this year doesn't mean they have to keep him for 3 more. Once you get those guys into the program, there's a decent chance they are close to starting and getting significant playing time and won't want to sit a year by transferring. That being said, I think the AD would say the schedule was incredibly tough this year and, short of a complete collapse (less than 4 wins), can still claim program building. Next year is when I think the grace period wears off and London will have to make a bowl game or be shown door.
I actually think he is around to stay. They just brought in a nearly retired coach to mentor him. And as you said he is pulling 5 star recruits and unfortunately dominating the 757. The AD said over the summer that he is not even close to being on the hot seat.
I actually believe they are trying to build a program. Bringing in a coach they can count on to stay and not move on. Give that coach the time he needs to build something lasting, give him the personnel he needs to help him and build a program without outright throwing money at the problem. Just look at Dabo Sweeney. That dude surrounds himself with better coaches but manages the program well. This is what they want with London.
I think they are going to give him at least 2 full recruiting cycles to build. And since LOLUVA fans don't care about football or winning he will never have the pressure other coaches get at real programs.
This...this...this is a terrible idea.
Words cannot describe how opposed to this idea I am. London is an absolute buffoon.
Has no one here watched Billdozer's UVA hype video?
Bud to HC, Gray or Wiles to DC. VT Alum to fill in the hole left behind of either of the latter two. Or, Bud to HC, Shane to DC and get groomed to be future HC?
I'd say Bud to HC, Gray to DC, they bring in a former VT DB from the NFL to coach the DBs. Shane will over time be groomed into an OC.
If someone told me we hire London as a TEs coach or speacial teams coach, I would scratch my head and ponder it a bit and probably take a week to convince myself it was a good move since he is a good recruiter. Any role bigger than that I would say no.
Our coordinators usually coach a position, so I would think that Torrian would still be coaching the DBs as a DC. What I can see us possibly doing is Bud becoming HC and Gray/Wiles becoming DC, all of them continuing to coach their current positions at least to some degree. If Bud takes less of a role in coaching the LBs, we could bring in another coach for that position, but my preference would be to move Shane there. He coached LBs at USCe and other than his first year at Miss St, his pre-hokies coaching experience was on the defensive side of the ball. This would allow us to bring in a RB coach. I'm also assuming that Shane will probably take over Special Teams when Frank retires, so being able to split LB duties with Bud and possibly Cornell would give him more time for that while a new coach focuses on the RBs.
Edit: He was also the Special Teams Coordinator while he was at USCe, quick copy and paste from Shane's page on USCe's website:
"In 2009, Beamer's special teams units recorded five blocked kicks, tying for the SEC lead and tying for the eighth highest total in the nation. In addition, Spencer Lanning converted on 85 percent (17-of-20) of his field goal attempts in his first season in that role. "
Given his history, maybe he could be in charge of game day security at Lane Stadium
He couldn't keep anyone from getting past him at UVA on the field, I wouldn't trust him with safety at Lane.
No no, you're mistaken, London could never work Lane Stadium. Security inside the stadium requires at least a slight notion of how much time is left on the clock to watch out for kids rushing the field.
But I am willing to bet he would be great as a parking attendant. He knows how to talk to those young kids and relate to parents after all.
Head cheerleader.
I don't know what kind of stuff you are into but I do not want to see him wearing anything close to a cheerleaders outfit. (Male or female)
Hell no......give cornell the promotion
We have no use for losing coaches!
What would the likelihood of bringing someone like Lorenzo Ward here?
Dick Lebeau's son is almost 30 I think, let's get him.
I think I'd rather hire Algroh than ML. And I'd have to be sedated for a couple of years if we hired Algroh.
I agree with the majority here. Bud to HC, Gray to DC. Although if we could bring in London in a role similar to Stiney, I would be cool with that. His recruiting ability is undeniable, and maybe if he's only in charge of one position group instead of a huge role like HC or Coordinator, he could be ok. (Not sure what position group he would be best at though. Not familiar with his actual background in terms of coaching.) But I guess this would be impossible if some other program offered him a Coordinator job.
4 years is a long time from now. For all we know, both Bud and Gray move on to big-time jobs. However, London will never step foot on VT campus as an employee of the university. His only recruiting skill is having connections in the 757. So, when's he's fired from UVA, why would you hire him? UVA's connection is gone, VT can make inroads. The only fear would be London coaching at ODU (I would not be surprised if this happened), but hopefully that doesn't translate to snagging the 757 5-stars from VT. Would 5-stars go to ODU in 4 years? Probably not.