Saw it last week. Have a few thoughts. First: DCEU should be taking notes >cough BvS cough<. They just REALLY gotta get their shit together (I know, they're trying) and get it going. This film was a textbook SUPERB example of putting in a lot of stuff and making it balanced and flow smoothly. I REALLY liked Bats v Supes a lot. But yeah, this was better.
Second: one of my fave Marvel characters (Rhody/WarMachine) THANKFULLY does not die (I'll admit, I was worried, so I cheated and perused the Wikipedia plot, but only that section of it before the US release). I hope/assume he will be a part of the Infinity Saga.
Third: I liked the score. Thought it was better and more epic than Winter Soldier.
Fourth: Black Panther is a mo-fo, genuine, bona-fide BADAZZ!
Fifth: I wish they would've gone a little more into the bad juju between Pym and Stark (with Ant-Man and all).
Sixth: I walked away feeling that even though Stark and his team were douches for the whole Wakanda Accords, Rogers was kind of a douche about the murder of Stark's parents.
In conclusion, NOBODY won. Thoughts, reflections, etc.
Comments
Oh yea, Spidey is kind of annoying (at this point) and STILL experiencing issues with his spider-sense. Btw, for the airport battle scene (if I were team Iron Man), this is the match up I would create to give them the largest percentage of success:
Iron Man - Falcon
War Machine - Scarlet Witch (watch and you'll see why)
Vision - Captain America
Black Panther - Hawkeye
Spider-Man - Winter Soldier
Black Widow - Ant-Man (figure she could sort of hold her own until one of the others can jump in)
I really thought Tom Holland stole the show as Spiderman in the scenes he was in. I really like the Toby Maguire movies and thought the Andrew Garfield ones were okay. But I'm really excited to see Tom Holland play him. Had the wit, comedy, and still managed to act like a teenager around the rest of the Avengers.
No, I meant the character, not the performance/actor. I think he'll do fine (though I don't believe we've seen enough assert that he's superior to Maguire or Garfield).
Oh I gotcha. Just from the small amount that we saw of him I thought he really played the role of Peter Parker extremely well. Not taking away from Maguire or Garfield. They both brought their own versions to the table and I enjoyed them both. Especially Maguire in Spiderman 1&2.
I thought he did great as well. Its hard to balance funny as spiderman and humble as peter parker (dont think garfields character was able to do both so went cocky as PP) but they managed to pull it off by going with youthful and kinda naive. Thought he was great.
I really liked this spiderman, but it's very unlikely somebody will unseat Maguire as the best because of Spiderman 2, which many people still regard as the best true superhero movie. That said, I'm excited about this very young Peter Parker, he was hilarious.
Spiderman 2 is the best super hero movie in the same universe where cake is superior to pie.
This is not a small minority of people who think this. And it's ridiculous to discount it as an absolutely brilliant superhero movie. You would be going against almost every acclaimed movie critic and the majority of fans. You are more than entitled to your opinion though.
Aha! I knew you secretly preferred pie!
I walked straight into your trap...
Is The Dark Knight not considered a 'true' superhero movie?
While I enjoyed The Dark Knight, Batman is not a superhero. His powers derive from being rich, disciplined, trained well. He's a hero, just not super.
Ah right. I forget that Iron Man's lack of discipline and training puts him squarely in the true super hero camp.
let's face it, iron man is the marvel version of batman (or vice versa): engineer using technology to make up for lack of supernatural powers.
Pretty much. They both really are the most interesting when violence won't solve their current problem.
Wow....well...never said Iron Man was a super hero but........sure
I'm realizing I should have explicitly put the /s on that one. :)
all good
This universe you are referring to, I am confident it is only a myth preserved for centuries by the woe begotten miscreants of the culinary challenged cake clan. Pie rules.
Sorry, I just have to say this: Batman is a superhero, The Dark Knight is the best superhero movie of all-time and there shouldn't even be a debate about it.
Batman wasn't even the best character in his own movie. Joker stole the show. I do agree it's the best comic movie of all time though. I won't get into the whole hero super hero debate since the super part is kind of irrelevant as long as the hero part is true. Similarly, villains can be super as well, but don't necessarily make them any better...or worse....now I'm confused.
I always found Maguire to be a bit of a douche actually. I thought Garfield was MUCH better. I liked this one as well, especially since he really shows the youth of Peter Parker. The issue I had while watching this awesome movie was that since this version of Spiderman only has had his powers for a couple months I don't think he would've fared as well as he did in the movie against these seasoned fighters.
Also, Team Ironman is waaaaay OP.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/captain-america-civil-war-who-would-...
I was sure they'd kill off either Cap (as the comics did) or Ironman (so they can stop paying RDJ $40 mil+ per movie). As for the actual plot, philosphically, I'd side with Cap hands down, but I just really do not like him very much, whereas Tony Stark is easily my favorite Avenger.
I dunno, though.... Scarlet Witch is drastically underrated. She can control anything with her mind. She bitchslapped Vision earlier in the movie, and Vision is supposedly the trump card? I don't see it, she's the biggest trump card of all. Her powers make her far too powerful, much like Jean Grey is to much for the XMen.
Much like Jean Grey, but not EXACTLY like Jean Grey (and I'm not even including the Phoenix). SW does not possess telepathy. Also, after a year of training she still has only a year under her belt and Rhody was totes p*wning her with that device that sent a disruptive signal. Plus, Vision and SW were NEVER gonna go all out on each other (except maybe in bed: SPOILER ALERT).
Ok I HAVE OPINIONS.
1. The movie was fantastic. The screenplay was almost perfect (more on that in a sec because I had a couple complaints). Seriously one of the best superhero movies I've seen.
2. I feel bittersweet about Spiderman. I hated hated hated Tobey Maguire. He's a shit actor. I loved loved loved Andrew Garfield. I loved the first of Garfield Spiderman but they ruined it with the second one. With that being said, I'm pretty excited about Holland. He was really great. However, it feels weird to do another reboot so soon.
3. Spider-Man felt kinda shoehorned in. Somehow they still pulled it off, because it could have been worse. They kind of had to shoehorn him in and they did the best with what they had.
4. A lot happened, and it felt like someone kind of needed to die. War Machine seemed like the best character to kill off but people really like him for some reason. Someone needed to die and he made the most sense.
5. Those seem like really big complaints but they didn't ruin the movie for sure.
6. The fight scenes get better and better each movie. I mean some of Romanoff's stunts were unbelievable!
So those are my opinions.
Question, what makes the Falcon more important to the story than War Machine?
Nothing. It just felt like he should have died with the way they did the scene. If it would have hit Falcon I'd say he should die.
Rhody had more protective covering (armor). It was obviously enough to absorb the impact of the fall without actually killing him. Falcon would've been vaped. I feel Rhody is more vital to the MCU than Falcon. One of my other complaints of the film, didn't get to see enough of his arsenal (Gatling, repulsor, etc). Felt the CGI was better in this one than Ultron. But then again, neither team was going for kill shots. Both sides were holding back (sans Black Panther).
I figure they need to keep Falcon around since he takes over as Captain America at some point
VT_Warthog...I too have opinions:
1. THANK GOD someone else saw Tobey Maguire for the crap Spiderman that he is. I do believe his acting has a place though (see: Cider House Rules, Pleasantville, Back to the Future II).
2. I thought the motivation presented in the movie for Hawkeye, Antman, and a couple others to be fighting the other Avengers was weak. I mean, the Accords were not presented as a terrible thing in the movie. I believe the Accords in the comics included a registration act (including revelations of the secret identities) which would have been much more extreme.
3. GREAT MOVIE
I was shocked that they didn't include this. It's the main motivation for someone like Hawkeye or Spiderman to get involved. It also creates a great example when the two most famous supers are so diametrically opposed on supporting the Accords. Of course, Hawkeye doesn't wear a mask in MCU, so his identity is already out there since his face would show up on the NYC film reel.
It felt pretty odd when Stark points out that Hawkeye has a wife and family to think about, and Hawkeye kind of shrugs it off. Sounded more like he was bored than anything.
That scene in Spiderman 3 where he's strutting down the street makes me angry just thinking about it....
He is the worst. Like I can't bring myself to watch the original trilogy because he annoys me so much as an actor. Even Kristen Dunst was inferior to Emma Stone as Gwen Stacy. Aunt May was better in the new one too. Oh, and Harry Osborn too. I like Franco but that's not a good role for him.
As far as being Peter Parker, Maguire fits the bill way better than Garfield. People have let Spiderman 3 ruin their opinion of that whole trilogy. Even though literally every critic who matters and the majority of fans know Spiderman 1 and 2 were by far the best Spiderman movies.
I disagree, Garfield had a much younger vibe to him than Maguire and played the part so much better. Both Spiderman 3 and the reboot's Sequel both suffered from the same problems (poor screenplay, too many villains). Regardless, I cannot understand why Maguire was a better Spiderman than Garfield.
I thought the movie was borderline perfect. Fight scenes were amazing, the combo of all the characters was incredible. There were more heroes in this film than any other. Somehow they managed to give them all a decent amount of screen time too. Once again marvel also mixed humor and action perfectly.
The only negative, (is really a positive) it hurt to watch iron man and captain america pound each other. You wanted them to hug it out so bad. But that just shows what a good job the makers did to make it believable. Definitely on CAs side but cant blame Iron man for going off the deep end after seeing his parents killed.
Plus Cap was a douche for not sharing the info just for the sake of protecting Bucky. But I did enjoy (in the final fight) that BOTH had the opportunity to kill each other (first with Stark, second with Cap).
I made the same observation about blending in so many characters and making it work...that was perfect and really sets the stage for Infinity Wars.
Also, agree about Black Panther. He was my favorite as a child and I've been waiting for 40 years to see him in the film universe....I think they have nailed his persona so far.
Just saw it today.
Hands down this and guardians are my favorite superhero movies. This one delivered on many of the things that Avengers 2 fell short on and as other said, damn near perfect.
The greatest accomplishment I felt was finally portraying spider-man correctly. Holland stole the show and spider-man stole the movie. He had the movements, the quips, the sincerity, the correct strength ratio (love when he catches winter soldiers punch like it was nothing) and the aloof goofballness. Cannot wait for the stand alone movie and I hope so much they cast someone that can accurately play the villain.
Fight scenes were incredible. Ant man to Giant Man was fantastic to see and very well done. The end fight scene, despite being somewhat "spoiled" in the trailer, was in fact not spoiled at all and was fantastic.
Vision and Scarlet Witch dynamic was done well. And Vision was played to a tee. The fight scene with Hawkeye was a great display of Vision.
Blank Panther, like Spiderman was nailed. Wow. Just perfect casting and performance. And personally, I love the changes to the uniform.
The tempo to this movie was pitch perfect. That alone is so hard to do with a movie like this. Expertly crafted.
minor gripes:
Hawkeye fighting Vision went from knowing his shit, to uh, really? He starts off so bad ass by setting the trap. Then he thinks he can punch and hit Vision with a baton. Could have been better.
Vision blowing War Machine out of the sky. I would think the War Machine suit is A LOT better armored than Falcon's suit and wings. Yet Vision done cut through it like a hot knife through butter. If he actually hit Falcon then there would be no more Falcon.
Ant Man in the raft. We see him back to normal human size. But that means he would have had to wake up and shrink himself down to that size. When in reality he would just go full on Ant Size. That either could have made for a great scene or he would never actually be caught and end up in the Raft Supermax.
Where was Vision for the airport fight? Pretty much disappeared.
Probably for the best, he could have killed everyone.
I believe he was really (like most, except Team Cap) were dialing back/down and going more for restraint than other stuff (minus the misfire on Rhody).
True, but we just never saw him.
Refreshing to see a logical reason for the internal conflicts.
That was just enough Spiderman. I prefer him in this universe vs. Stand alone films.
Best line in the movie was when Spiderman picked on CA for having a shield that defies physics.
Funny how Captain America is about the least interesting individual super hero and yet his plot lines continue to make the best movies.
One more thing, probably biggest flaw for me. Winter Soldier kills Tony's parents on a dark country road, where Howard is driving a late model car with a trunk of super soldier serum.
The same Howard stark that liked to fly himself everywhere or had a butler, jarvis, drive him everywhere. The same Howard Stark that invented the flying car and countless other things that would be used for defense in such a situation. The same Howard Stark that would likely be driving top of the line car as he always has been.
So it seems highly unlikely that this would be how Howard elects to transport super soldier serum to the Pentagon. Alone, with his wife, with an off the shelf late model car that has zero defensive countermeasures or any type of Stark tech in it.
See the previous two Captain America movies and the Agent Carter series for the reasoning here. They both depict many scenes where Hydra's sleeper agents knew everything that S.H.I.E.L.D. was doing with the serum. It's pretty simple to write this one off as "the less people that know, the better," and Howard Stark was certainly one of the only people trustworthy enough to perform the mission.
Beyond that, it's a comic book movie. I find many scenes in Civil War to need a bigger suspension of disbelief than that one. :)
missing the point. its not whether he would be trustworthy, its that he would not be driving a car like that with zero stark tech inside. As you pointed out Howard Stark in the previous movies and Agent Carter series was resourceful and usually capable.
Anyway, as you said its a movie so whatever. just pointing something out.
what is a plothole you find bigger?
If you haven't watched Agent Carter (at least the first season, moreso than the second), that does delve into some setup for potential reasons. Especially considering Stark and his technology. Iron Man 2 (might be 3, but I believe it's 2) also goes slightly into how Howard had some revelations in his old age about technology and proper uses.
yeah I watched both seasons. I guess I am missing the reasoning why he wouldn't use technology or why he would travel in a manner counter to everything in film or tv series. Anyway, no big deal. Just since there seems to be no clear reasoning (at least to me) so I found it odd.
I hear ya. It's a bit of a stretch that he'd do it. I was just pointing out some of the setup points in the plot that would lead to a "Stark driving without protection because he's trying to keep a low profile" situation.
Sorry, not being clear i guess. Him operating alone ( with or without wife) i understand and agree with. A Stark traveling with zero stark tech and a futurist driving a late model car in 1991, not so much.
But again, superhero movie. No bigs.
That's the other thing that bothered me. I walked away feeling like everyone (except Tony) was just fine, alright and dandy like candy with the fact that Rogers helped cover up for Bucky's murder. The other thing that really grinds my gears is, yeah Rogers Bucky were as close friends from womb to tomb, but both Bucky and Rogers developed a close friendship with Howard whilst sticking it up the Red Skull and Hydra during the first film. The whole thing just seemed effed. up
In reality, the only characters that were really and truly trying to kill in this film were: Panther, Bucky, Stark and Rogers.
Yep, maybe he was driving like that because he and Shield knew that Hydra would send someone after him. It seems like he was putting himself out as bait, but no one was there help intercept Bucky.
That is weird that he would transport Super Solider Serum in such a regular way like that. But I've developed a "theory" about the whole Serum myself...
Man what you talking bout? That was a cadillac!!
Lol, of course Howard would be riding in style. I suppose he turned it down a little from the levitating car...
I originally thought this was a reference to the character Rescue (aka Pepper Potts), but then I actually watched the vid. Enjoy!
Personally I liked the plot from the comics better and this movie felt very unfinished to me. Not sure if they finished it or if there is another coming. I understand they want to tie Bucky in as they invested in his character already, but that was all new material.
Still a very entertaining movie and definitely better than DCs equivalent, but thought it could have been much better if they touched on some of the points mentioned in this thread. The mutant registration, no unmasked/unidentified heros, using "rehabilitated" mutants who were clearly whack jobs to help stark's side etc.
The mutants (save for Wolverine) pretty much stayed out of the whole Civil War. Cyke was pretty effin serious with his warning to Stark and everyone else.
They could still touch on those as the story progresses. Who knows what they will throw in during Dr. Strange, Black Panther, etc. I'd say the only movies that won't move the Earth storyline too far forward will be Thor 3 and Guardians 2 (although both could do that anyway).
Ya I was later told that this wasn't the conclusion of civil war that there will be a part 2. They are just pumping out so many of these movies the timeline is getting all jacked up though. Even in this thread though you see people wondering why captain America was on the side he was and it's hard to understand because of how they portrayed it in the movies. One of the biggest sticking points for him was having to reveal their true identifies b/c it puts people they care about in danger and that point was completely disregarded.
Pros: Plot flow is smooth and logical. Casting was perfect (Holland is the best spiderman ever!). Massive entertainemnt value.
Cons: No Hulk. No Thor. No death(s). Biggest con-ever: Captain America supporting the pro-individual anti-government side whilst Ironman is supporting the government side. Nope. Nope. Nope. (Don't know or care if that's how it happened in the comics, it's two direct reversals for expressed character preferences.) [Also, disliked some of the other movies for doing this...Stark goes full anti-Military Industrial Complex (MIC), supports said MIC, Cap is suppossedly so patriotic, but repeatedly does not comply...]
Overall: Watch it. Excellent movie, do NOT pay attention to the consistency of the plot lines in Marvel Universe, they are better, but still unapologetically inconsistent. Standard summer, plot-less, explosions and ass-kicking movie-classification does still apply.
I want to see a buddy cop comedy starring Falcon and Winter Soldier with Cap as their Chief.
As said previously, Tom Holland's Spider-Man was perfect. He never shuts up, even during fights, he's always cracking stupid jokes. Also, instead of beating us over the head with the Great Power/Great Responsibility line, summing up what I always felt like was Peter Parker's motivation with the (paraphrasing) "If you can do what I do, when bad people do bad things and you don't stop it, it's your fault." I am unbelievably excited for the Spider-Man movie.
Also, to comment on the Maguire Spider-Man...yes, he reached the pit of terribleness in the Spider-Man 3, but he wasn't great in the first two. Instead of being endearingly awkward (which Holland nailed), Maguire was always kind of creepy awkward. And Kirsten Dunst is just. the. worst. Emma Stone was good as Gwen Stacy, but she died in the comics before I was even born, so I've always been partial to MJ. I have every confidence in Holland to top him easily, and they can really help him by getting a good MJ. And I have absolutely no problems with Marisa Tomei as Aunt May despite it going it against the character from the books because then I get to watch Marisa Tomei.
2 gif's in response to your comment:
I'll tolerate the annoying quips (for now), but I'm not ready to say that Tom is superior to Maguire or Garfield just yet.
Tolerate? If you're looking for a brooding, serious crime fighter in red, might I direct you to Daredevil, season 2 now available on Netflix. Seriously, the goofy enthusiasm he was jabbering with during the ENTIRE airport fight scene was awesome and the best adaptation of Spider-Man I've seen. Yes, 2+ hours of it might get annoying, but they know how to dilute it. I mean, they knew we couldn't take 2+ hours of Cap's righteous do goodiness, so they sprinkle in all the other characters and lots of scenes with NO Cap.
And I would say if he reaches 70% of his performance from Civil War in his own movie, he will have easily topped Maguire.
I think "topping McGuire" is going to pivot more upon the script than the actor. Marvel Studios has shown they know their own characters much better than anyone at Sony.
I do lament the continuing story of The Amazing Spiderman, though. I actually prefer those two movies to Spiderman 2 & 3.
Man this "Who is the best Spiderman" conversation is starting to become a big debate. It is a good thing we finally come to one conclusion on these things (sitting at my computer eating Cake...)
I nearly uplegged this, and then you said "cake".
Some food for thought: http://www.polygon.com/2016/5/20/11719788/captain-america-civil-war-tony...
If HBO produced Marvel movies, Cap would be dead, Warmachine...dead, Vision would be teetering on the verve of becoming the enemy, Stark would be dead, and Falcon would be his replacement (Captain America 2.0 'Armored Edition' or some such).
Or else Stark would become an inept alcoholic and Rhody would take over the Ironman suit (like in the actual story), and Bucky would toss the shield for awhile and then pass it to Falcon.
And a lot of gratuitous sex and nudity....oh wait, that's Starz
how does one teeter on
Leg for one of the greatest bands OF ALL TIME.
You mean that ripped off arguably the greatest band of all time?
yep. Cause bittersweet symphony was the only song these guys ever did /s
Yep, because I totally said that the band was illegitimate /s. Seriously I like them too (particularly the song "Drugs Don't Work"). But they are most well-known for ripping off the Rolling Stones. Just sayin
They received permission to use the riff in the song. It worked well. Then, when the song blew up, the Stones (or the label, not sure which) decided they wanted in on it and claimed they used it "too much", which to me is the argumentative equivalent of "just the tip". To be clear, there was no "ripping off".
Velvet Morning is my personal favorite track off of that album, but Drugs Don't Work is probably number two.
Also, are you implying that the Rolling Stones are the greatest band of all time? I mean, that's a debate for another thread, but...I'm curious as to your argument, while acknowledging this is a completely subjective topic. And whilst I will say without shame that Stone Temple Pilots are my favorite band, I still have trouble accepting that anyone but The Beatles are the greatest band of all time, simply down to the sheer volume of great songs they put out and the influence they had on so much of what came after them.
/braces for dismissive, anti-Beatles rants
No dismissive rants made here. Just the Rolling Stones really pushed the boundaries of rock music in terms of paving the way for genres like metal. I won't say that the argument is greater one way or the other. I would say that the argument (at least for me) is equal. That's why I said arguably. I ain't gonna snuff the Beatles. And for the reference, Foo Fighters and Newsboys are my fave bands.
Isn't Quicksilver dead in the MCU? I mean, I know they bring characters back from the dead all the time, but for now aren't we lead to believe he is dead?
Is he?? Remember, this is Disney. Only bad guys are allowed to die.
Well, it is also Joss Whedon and he kills all the characters we love.
They did bring back Agent Coulson, but that was against Whedon's wishes.
Coulson isn't technically back in the MCU, since the TV shows draw from the Movies but not vice versa.
Agent Carter died. Another good one bites the dust. Just when I was hoping for a good Cap/Carter love scene.
For realz, I think there will be a fair amount of deaths of the good guys in the Infinity War movies.
Agreed. Haley Atwell is friggin HOT like bae.
I guess Han Solo was kinda only half a good guy.
They should be able to bring back Quicksilver, the same way they did Coulson.