Hate to get two soccer threads running at once but its been a pretty interesting first couple of games especially with wales winning their first competitive game since the 50s. Let your thoughts be heard and the games get going!
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I've watched a few moments of a few games. But what has caught my attention is the fighting among the fans.
As for the soccer, I'm surprise at how badly England played.
rule of thumb with england - expect a lot, get a little
that was a typical english game. look good until you get a lead then choke it away really really poorly. aside from the fighting between russians and brits its been a pretty fun tournament so far. Payet's winner was fantastic, and good for wales for getting a historic win!
Until England realizes that Sterling is awful and Rooney is old and Kane should NOT be taking corners, this is the result they'll get. They have Vardy and Sturridge on the bench, which is kinda nuts to be honest.
If I were them I'd be benching at least Kane for one of those next game.
why would you bench kane? ok he shouldnt be taking corners but that doesnt mean he shouldnt be on the field. I agree that vardy is probably their most in form striker but kane has not exactly been a one hit wonder and anyone that thinks so is kidding themselves. The dude has phenomenal talent and has got them some crucial goals and won them some big games. Kane should not be sitting bench. sterling on the other hand...and this is coming from a city fan mind you, deserves it. Until the guy can find consistency hes not going the be anything more than a glorified role player. The guy is spectacular at times, but awful at others. Case and point his first half was amazing, he was constantly a threat...until he whiffed on that volley that frankly should have won them the game. Likewise i agree, why have the best finisher on your team (Kane) taking corners. MAKES ZERO SENSE, its not like the man is a dwarf, takes corners for his club, or that you have a lack of talent to take corners elsewhere (see kyle walker or danny rose). Roy Hodgson deserves some blame, but harry kane starting is not one of the issues.
yeah it seems like the talent isn't being properly used on England, i could potentially see an argument for having vardy up top and having kane play slightly underneath and having rooney on the bench, but kane has to play for england
I think Kane was honestly one of the worst players on the field. Possibly behind Sterling.
Kane didnt have a great game but that happens. I mean if tom brady has an off game do you bench him? Hell no. And the most disappointing players were pretty easily llanaa couldn't stay onsides to save his life. Rooney turned the ball over WAY to much in the midfield. Chris smalling showed 0 effort on the goal.
The entire tactic was off too. If youre going to play sterling let him get wide and whip in crosses. Dont make him cut inside and expect kyle walker and danny rose to be your only wide threats
Kane subbed off, Vardy promptly scores.
Why has Vardy been on the bench this tourney? I don't know a lot about soccer but he seems like a good player.
Your guess is as good as mine. No reason why both he and Sturridge should be losing minutes to Sterling, Kane, and 30 year old Rooney playing out of position.
I think it's simply their manager being daft or trying to force his way out of a job as quickly as possible.
woy hodgson. 'nuff said the guy turned liverpool into a dumpster fire in his disastrous time at anfield and he's doing the same with the national team. sadly, i'm not at all surprised by this, and neither is any other england fan. they'll probably still win their group, despite woy's best efforts.
I'm still laughing that we skinned man city to the tune of 50million for sterling. wouldn't take him back for 10million. another overrated english player (like many on the national team).
As a United fan, I laugh my ass off at City for paying that. But I'm also sad that he's no longer avaliable to ruin Liverpool's sides. Sigh.
the guy is still only 22, lets wait more than one season before we write someone off as a complete bust. A lot of the best players out there struggle their first year. But yeah we did overpay a good bit for him, 30 i could see. 50...yeesh. But we desperately needed pace and a young english player for champions league reasons.
I see your Sterling and raise you Marcus Rashford and Anthony Martial.
haha martial had a pretty good first year, but i still do think you overpaid a tad on him. I mean if we're talking about youth development though you cant discount kelechi innheacho, jason denayer, enes unal, adarabioyo, manu garcia, brandon barker, and brahmin all look REALLY good from a youth perspective, i mean shoot two of those guys are starting for champions league teams and the third has been one of the most pleasant surprises of the season in kelechi. City's future looks pretty bright
As someone pulling hard for Aaron Ramsey and Wales... England has looked about 10x better since changing Sterling and Kane for Sturridge and Vardy.
what a way to end!! England deserved it IMO. They outplayed Wales for the entire second half
They did totally outplay them, but I was really rooting for Wales. I am far from the type to always pull for the underdog, but Wales has that appeal to me.
I was pulling for Wales because 1) Aaron Ramsey and 2) the media hypes on England constantly whether they deserve it or not (and they generally don't) and it makes me dislike them immensely.
Thoughts on 16 out of 24 advancing? Not a fan. Think it should be 12, giving the top four 1st place teams a trip to the quarterfinals.
Have to post this since everybody is singing it!
Will Grigg's on fire
In case you missed the best/grossest part of the tournament so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYso-ZUwEZ0
i keep thinking of this
Typical Italy - mostly boring for 85+ minutes, then find a way to score at the end.
I question UEFA and French security during these games. Numerous games where flares and fireworks have been let into the stadium, several games where large fights have broken out and numerous games where fans have gotten into the pitch. Not a great look, especially with what happened in Paris in November.
this Croatia spain game has been spectacular, I hope everyone is watching
Thank god for WatchESPN, turned it on just in time to see Croatia's first goal which was beautiful. Great match, I've thoroughly enjoyed watching all these games during work. As a Ronaldo fan, the Portugal games have been frustrating, can't seem to find the back of the net, but overall I've loved watching this tournament.
ronaldo cant do it alone, hes surrounded by some very average players. Especially because they're egotistical as all get out
I agree, I've liked Raphael's play a lot, but outside of him the rest of the supporting cast seems to be playing a little uninspired.
98.5%. That was Mesut Ozil's completion rate for passing in the last game. Add that to Ramsey's dominance and Granit Xhaka's proficiency (2 MOTM awards for Switzerland) and this Arsenal fan is having a good time with these Euros.
I don't know what MOTM awards are but I immediately filled it in as "Man On The Moon" in my head and it sounded good so I went with it
That would also excite me, if it were the case. You may continue with that if you wish, I won't blame you.
Just so you know, it's "Man of the Match".
well that makes much better sense. And also, can you tell I don't watch a lot of soccer :/
Problem is ramsey gets hurt a lot and I dont trust Wenger at all. I think we can all agree arsenal has an amazing midfield but I just think you wont get it done with that coach. Plus your centerback pairing lacks something to be desired, you definitely need another guy there
I change my mind on whether I think Wenger has lost "it" or not every other week. I think Gabriel is going to end up starting with Kos this year and that'll be an improvement, though not perfect. The nice thing is we have the best pair of fullbacks in the league, and Xhaka is going to help those central guys immensely. Xhaka is a MAJOR improvement over Coq/Flamini.
I just really, really hope they come up with another striker soon, because as much as I adore Giroud, he absolutely can not carry a whole season. He gets gassed and then goes on a multi-month scoring drought. He needs breaks, and with Welbeck out for a long while, if we don't sign someone else, I'm gonna be upset.
spot on! you guys need more depth up top too, welbeck has flair but i dont think hes a particularly great option up top, he cant split open a defense. Also i dont know if you can consider your fullback pairing best in the league, gotta give tottenham credit (especially because their fullbacks are regular starters for England). but I'm not entirely sold on gabriel, if you guys had landed hummels and a decent striker i think you'd be the team to beat. You need another option at the CB position (a really good one) and someone to help Giroud. Still though, i think wenger has done less with more lately
It might be partial bias, but I think Bellerin is one of the top 3 right backs in the world right now (which is a very thin position worldwide anyways), and Nacho has quietly been a force in the EPL the past two seasons (though he did fall off a tiny bit in the back half of last season).
Bellerin has been good but im not quite as high on nacho
That was an incredibly exciting match between Portugal and Hungary. Honestly, it was an excellent example of how to swing above your weight class by Hungary. They benefitted from some deflected long shots, but they made the chances they got count and counterattacked very well.
Since the US isn't playing I usually spend the Euro rooting for a random underdog. I picked Iceland pre-tournament, this just keeps getting more fun.
To put this game in perspective. The Leicester City championship was ridiculous, but that actual city has 330,000 people. The entire country of Iceland has 323,000.
I found the commentary to be a little disrespectful to Iceland. This isn't a team of nobodies. They're professional footballers and good ones too. They stick to the script, do their roles and will lay their bodies on the line for the crest on the shirt. That's how a national team should play. For sure an upset, but Iceland were brilliant tonight. England hapless again. Overpaid, over hyped because of the league they play in.
They were both British announcers, of course they're going to focus more on England.
I know soccer, and especially soccer that doesn't involve the US, isn't going to be popular here. But I just have to say that this is the biggest sports story of the year. If you're not following you're missing something truly special.
It's a great story, but not even the best in the sport. Leicester winning the EPL is the best story, in my opinion.
Outside of Gylfi Sigurdsson, Iceland's team IS a bunch of nobodies. Even Northern Ireland has a squad playing at more glamorous clubs than Iceland, which I guess makes Iceland's achievement that much more remarkable.
Now, if they beat France, then this truly is the worldwide sports story of the year in a year full of them. Count on Woy to be the kingmaker, what a useless muppet he is.
Leicester is the sports story of the year for me too, or at least the soccer story of the year.
I get the media darlings that Iceland have turned into, but this isn't a random get good overnight thing. They've been brewing now for a few years. IIRC, they missed out on the World Cup in the playoffs and then got through a difficult group in Euro Qualifying that included the Netherlands. No one knows of these players cause they don't following the Scandinavian leagues, but it's quality football. There isn't star power, but it's better than MLS, so it's not like Iceland are a bunch of minnows running around.
I know Leicester was an awesome story, but the passion of the fans and size of the country make Iceland surreal. They have been getting progressively better over the years, but this is a country with 200k fewer people than Wyoming.
When you continue to start Harry Kane after the form he's shown recently, you reap what you sow.
Well played Iceland, and once again, Go Wales.
I didn't get to see the game, because work, but you've got to love seeing the little guys win. Anyways...
Here's an early contender: apparently, England's footballers don't want anything to do with Europe either
it's funny because it's true
Just go look at some of the comments on reddit.com/r/soccer. The jokes are inevitable, but they are still hilarious.
The Brexit jokes are misguided, Wales are still in the tournament! That probably doesn't help....
My favorite was someone posted a Flood Warning for the west of England because all of Wales are pissing themselves laughing. And there's a video of the entire Welsh team going mental celebrating when the final whistle went on the Iceland-England match.
Just to reinforce the place of US Soccer worldwide...
Iceland is a country with a population the size of the metropolitan area of Lincoln, Nebraska or Spartanburg, South Carolina...
The US is ranked 31, Iceland is ranked 34
I don't really get too hung up on stuff like that, but I actually think Iceland's small population is a huge benefit when it comes to identifying talent.
There's been plenty of articles about how Iceland have been building toward this for years by beefing up player development and investing in coaching. Per this excellent Guardian article from earlier this month (with a telling quote in hindsight):
Football, fire and ice: the inside story of Iceland's remarkable rise
The huge size of the US makes player scouting and development a massive undertaking. Yes, we have a much larger pool to choose from, but how many promising youngsters do we have that give up the sport before they're ever identified? In Iceland, kids as young as 5 or 6 are working with coaches who have some of the best qualifications in the sport. That's not only a big advantage, but it allows them to identify talent far earlier in the development process.
Point being, we have a much different challenge than Iceland to becoming world class. Yes, we probably have a much higher ceiling, but inherent geographical challenges might make our road a little longer. The best thing that can happen for the game in the US is for more professional clubs to sprout up and open academies. That would hopefully mean more coaches with proper training, as opposed to mom & pop coached rec leagues. With more qualified individuals coaching the game, talent evaluation becomes less of a needle in the haystack operation.
Our issue is very clearly not the population size, but that we don't have the culture around soccer that inspires our best athletes to desire to be great soccer players. People can argue against this because Yedlin is super fast, but he is the exception not the rule. The MLS, while growing in popularity, doesn't pay players like basketball/football, and the overall culture of the US is still focused on other sports. If soccer was our main sport ,and the majority of kids grew up aspiring to be great soccer players, then we would field a much more athletic and competitive national team year in and year out. Simple as that.
They've found 23 guys that know what it means to play international football.
The U.S. haven't.
neither has england
Damn, thats pretty harsh dude we did finish in the semifinals of a multicontinental tournament. Youre not going to win em all. Case and point spain. Do I really think spain was worse than portugal or poland this year? No but they limped out of the tournament
I think were we're playing much better and more consistent soccer than when we made our semfinal run in the 2002 world cup
we have a solid core of young players, too. Yedlin and especially Christian Pulisic have the potential to be world class in a few years. the future is bright.
What I meant by that, is that we didn't see the swashbuckling American side we've normally seen in Copa. Where they fight tooth and nail once they go down. Yes, Argentina are good, but we rolled over after that opening goal against them. No bite. Iceland goes down after four minutes, and scores two more before you can even get a grasp on what has happened. So while the Copa finish was good, there was a lot left to be desired the way we whimpered out in Houston.
Every team has an off game, it happens. I think it was more on our players overly respecting our opponent. It's not like we looked good before the first goal either.
We looked pretty good in the columbia game. Honestly I think what I realised was how much it hurt to lose bobby wood and how crucial he is to the team and its gameplan. We could not stretch argentina AT ALL without him. My point overall is, bad games happened, iceland has played great but england wasnt exactly a juggernaut the only reason they were in that position was because of a terrific finish vs wales.
I really don't understand all the backlash people are giving to US soccer around here. Honestly I was pretty pleased with our performances, one or two boneheaded cards aside.
We're not on the same level as the elite or even 'top level' (depending on where you want to draw the line) international squads yet, but to act like US soccer is some minnow that shouldn't even make a World Cup were we not in an allegedly weaker conference makes no sense.
I'm actually pretty excited because we're starting to see Jurgen's plan flesh out. Look at who our influential players are now. Sure, we're still reliant on guys like Jones and Dempsey, but we're also looking to young talents like Wood and Brooks to take us to the next level, and it's starting to pan out. Next step is to build depth so that guys like Beckerman and Wondo don't get call-ups anymore. But these things take time.
I'm a huge supporter of this side and have said over and over it's the most talented side to come through the national team set up ever. That's why it was disappointing with the game against Argentina. We gave them too much respect. That was the point I was trying to make. The moment you give a national team too much respect, the come out and smash you. You can't do that in the international game.
I probably have too much irrational confidence in the U.S. voyage in the next World Cup. We're good. That's why it's disappointing to lose those last two games, especially on our own turf. While we did do well in Copa, it was a different "well" than we've seen in the past. Long are the days where we have to out gut our opponents, we can finally outplay them which is why I like seeing Iceland do well.
They're not outplaying anyone. They're good players, but they aren't rolling through with sexy football. It's almost like the 2009 U.S. Confederation Cup team. A group in WAY over their heads, but they say f*ck it, let's go win this.
I didn't see that this summer. I haven't seen that in this side since Howard's Last Stand against Belgium. I think if we can regain that attitude that has been a staple of U.S., along with the growing talent pool, that's the sweet spot on an international level.
I'm positive about the future of US Soccer, but it is definitely pretty easy for us to qualify for the World Cup, that's a pretty solid statement in my eyes.
The only conference it WOULDN'T be easy for us to qualify out of is CONMEBOL.
I dunno UEFA qualification could be challenging.
There are so many slots from the UEFA side I wouldn't be that worried.
Agreed. There are probably three or four teams in CONMEBOL that should beat us 100% of the time and Mexico is a better team than we are, by and large. We're a middle of the pack soccer country in one of the easier qualification groups so we'll consistently make it to the World Cup, maybe to the elimination stages, but not likely the two games for the top four. I don't get the criticism either, JK is years into a massive rebuild. I expect his work will be done by Qatar at the latest.
I can't stand Bobby Wood. We'd have so many more goals if he had any creativity. He makes great runs and gets the ball in dangerous areas, but he almost never picks the correct ball. There were way too many times in this tournament that he got the ball in a dangerous area and didn't even consider playing the ball to the open man.
Bobby wood was easily one of the top two players of the tournament, he was so much better than altidore. He's also really young and showed a TON of promise. That will come with time
The top 2 players in the tournament? Come on, that's pretty absurd.
I think he meant for the US team, in this tournament.
meant the US team haha, top two players of the tournament were hands down sanchez and messi although i wouldnt be mad if you threw vargas in there either
Thought Wood played incredible and that stupid yellow card really cost us against Argentina since he missed out. Still, Altidore for me out of the two if he's healthy. Incredibly, he's still only 26 and had he not been slowed with injury he would be well on his way to the all-time U.S. leading goal scoring record. He still could top it, especially if he regains his hamstring health, but finally we have a capable backup to come in and lead a front line in Wood. He's only going to get better in the Bundesliga. Needs to be more clinical in front of goal, but the skill is there. He just needs to play.
Once again this ignores the fact that FIFA rankings are complete garbage. USA is 23 in elo. I'm sure I could find another ranking system that could show us higher and another that shows us lower.
I refuse to base my, or others, views on our entire soccer outlook on the rankings released by the most corrupt governing body in sports.
I enjoyed this thoroughly
Correction: One of the coaches is from Sweden. The other is a part-time dentist.
Haldorsson, their goalie, has only recently become a full-time player. He is also a movie producer or something like that.
Film director I think. And he has been phenomenal during this tournament. I don't think I've been more impressed with anyone on their team than I have been with him. Confidence in every move he makes, never second guessing himself (Brad Guzan is the opposite of this), always in the right position.
Absolutely, I've been singing his praises to all my friends who care about soccer. He survived a Belgium-USA esque onslaught of shots from Portugal and then to even further his cause he has continued that form throughout the rest of their games.
and he nearly denied Rooney's PK. That game very easily could have ended 0-2.
Can't wait to see my Polish team knockout the divas today!
Ugh... really? the divas? That should apply to south american flopping teams... Go Portugal. That said I have been rooting for Poland other than this, a friend of mine recently married a girl from Poland.
Portugal has played like crap! They should have lost to Croatia, only surviving on a last second counter-attack after the majority of the Croatian team was in the box after a shot off the post. Remember, they've won 1 game the whole tournament and it took 117 minutes for them to score in that one to win.
sheesh, tell us how you really feel.
After Ronaldo decided it was his job to say that Iceland, after tying Portugal and celebrating like they won the tournament, wouldn't do anything in the tournament, I've been all Team Iceland and Anti-Portugal. The same Iceland that is in the Quarterfinals as well. Ronaldo is a great player, but his ego and tantrums make him insufferable.
What Iceland did against Portugal was very unlike how they've played in the rest of their games. They absolutely super parked the bus and played ultra defensive and they did over celebrate. His comments weren't necessary, but his frustration was understandable, they completed like 300 more passes or something absurd and shot differential was like 27-4.
You do what you have to do. I don't agree with the strategy either, but calling out a country with no history of success after scoring a draw against one of the stronger teams in the tournament is worth celebrating. It gave them confidence to do as well as they have thus far. Ronaldo should have looked inward instead of ripping them, but that would take some class, something he isn't often known for having a large amount of.
This is blown out of proportion for a few incidents. Plus the media fails to accurately portray some things (throwing the mic of into the lake of that reporter, failed to mention everyone in Portugal hates that media group and they are like a tabloid apparently). I agree he shouldn't have spoken negatively towards Iceland but he is a competitor and was frustrated in the moment. But he is widely regarded among players as being classy and extremely dedicated to his craft. Also, nobody talks about when he does incredible things like donate his entire UCL bonus to charity (the same day that Messi was in court for tax fraud) and when he didn't celebrate the Croatia win because "he saw his brother crying" and instead went to hug and console Luka Modric after the match. People can paint whatever picture they want of him, but it's rarely the whole picture.
I used to be one of those people who hated Ronaldo, but you're absolutely right. He's represented as a diva because he's an attractive guy who lives it up a good bit and can react poorly on the field. In reality, he lives very cleanly (doesn't drink apparently) and gives a ton to charity. And it's not just that he gives to charity, but he seems like a kind person. Here's an example. The media is laughing at a boy's accent as he tries to speak to Ronaldo in Portuguese and he supports the kid.
ronaldo seems like a great person off the field which is nice to see but on the field he is such a whiner/diva can't stand the on field ronaldo
You could apply this statement to pretty much all elite players though. I went to watch Barcelona play Sevilla last fall and Neymar gave the shirt off his back to a young kid next to me before the match, but he whines and dives his way through games when they aren't going his way (see Copa del Rey final this year). Same with Messi, dude flops and barrel rolls 10 yards from a small foul in order to get a card shown.
I have a hard time giving Messi any crap for diving because he's generally one of the few players who plays through contact and would rather keep the ball going than get a free kick and a set piece. Usually when he goes down it's because he got mauled and couldn't keep his balance, kinda like what Wondo did to him. And most players know he plays well through lighter contact so they do hit him harder to make him go down now.
Tons of examples of stuff like this. Anyone who truly follows him closely knows he is very generous and kind. It was determined (hard to measure this exactly I'm sure) that he was the most charitable athlete in the world.
Perhaps saying he doesn't have class doesn't pertain to him in his personal life, but wearing a jersey is all I care about when it comes to Ronaldo. And while he's a great talent, he's not enjoyable to watch and I root against him as a person on the field. His behavior, his attitude, and his demeanor are not something I enjoy. Sounds like you're a fan and you do follow what he does off the pitch and it sounds like he does great things, but it doesn't change the fact that as a footballer, I don't like him and I think there's enough evidence throughout his history to justify it, just like there's evidence to support a similar feeling towards any other player out there pretty much.
Portugal is one of my least favorite international teams because of exactly this. They are some of the biggest divers and crybabies in international football. They ain't won nothing, either, except the 2006 World Cup's Most Entertaining Team award.
Don't get me wrong. Ronaldo is a powerhouse, and is pretty great with fans. Figo and Deco (who is actually Brazilian but was never called up to their national team) are two great former players.
But man do I root for this team to lose.
The thing that bothers me about portugal isnt so much ronaldo but rather what a waste of talent they are....there is soooooo much talent on that squad, some really great players but you put them on the field together and they play some of the ugliest games ive ever seen....why?! I root against them for that, and I think the blame falls on both the coach and the players
This is a fair critique of Portugal. I've felt the same way watching them and knowing the talent that they have. I think some of it is on the players, but I think they need to tweak some things to utilize their strengths more appropriately. Portugal has a wonderful mix of established veteran talent and an infusion of young talent like Sanches and Carvalho but it isn't meshing beautifully. That's the part where I'm not quite sure where exactly the issues and blame lies and its once again likely a combination of both.
edit: the diver and crybaby critique doesn't resonate with me because I see people say that who pull for other teams who do it much more and praise those teams. Then it becomes a preconceived biased lens that you are evaluating different teams with.
Hats off to wales right now. Win or lose theyve been one of the most entertaining teams in the tournament
They've been really impressive so far. Lot of heart. Sucks that Ramsey and Davis have to sit against Portugal though. That card carryover rule is garbage.
That Germany-Italy game just took a solid 5 years off my life. Such a sloppy game, but damn that finish was exciting. Kinda wish Hector had missed so the keepers would have had to shoot.
I was hoping for it to go to 11 rounds too - would have loved to see it decided by Neuer vs. Buffon shooting at each other.
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