That Spanish team which won the 2010 world cup was a great team. I'm not sure it's time to heap that praise on this Argentinian team yet...but they may be
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Yea, as much as I'd like to win putting money on us is very optimistic. Argentina has the skill to go Chile on us, but here's to hoping Dempsey continues to be a beast!
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Guzan and the backline are going to have to play the best game of their careers for us to have a chance. Argentina should be able to control the ball and the pace of the game so I think we will have limited opportunities offensively (especially with Wood out). I hope we can win some set pieces, maybe a PK as well and then we need to score from those set pieces. It will be fun to watch and hopefully we can pull off a major upset.
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Does anybody else use the CBS sports app? About 20 minutes ago, I got pushed a notification saying something like "USA defeats Argentina 1-..." Obviously, the game doesn't start for another 9.5 hours..
I was pissed for a moment as I thought the game might have started at 9am and I had missed it, but I was thrilled that it said 'USA defeats'.
Now, I am just a mix of sad and annoyed, while I ponder on whether or not I'll ever again be able to trust the validity of a push notification.
I got something similar last week for a game that hadn't started. I wonder if this is just shit technology management on CBS' part or if this is some bullshit to draw more app views.
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We actually played them in the 2007 Copa America as well and lost 4-1. It was an experimental side against a pretty stout Argentina team, but the 1995 game is one of the best US wins.
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Short of our fans acting like the Russians at the Euros, I can't be upset with any outcome tonight. We've done well to get this far, and should be pleased with how the team has performed.
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No. WCQ resumes in September as the U.S. travel St. Vincent and the Grenadines and host Trinidad and Tobago. Will need at least 4 points to assure qualification to the next round, but should have it wrapped up if we beat SVG and T&T at least draw Guatemala.
EDIT: Whoops...yeah...Olympics are U23 and we missed.
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The US men did not qualify for the Rio Olympics unfortunately. It's a U-23 tournament, so the senior team doesn't have any bearing there. For the Olympics themselves, each country is allowed a few overage players per squad.
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When we have possession, we HAVE to be smart with where we pass the ball. Also can't get dis-possessed in our own half or Argentina's attacked 3rd. Hopefully Bradley plays well and doesn't make any foolish choices when distributing out of the back. It'd be super, super nice if we had Jones, he's our X-factor in my opinion, he has such an engine.
Personally, I take Argentina 2-1 in ET. USA strikes first, goes into HT up 1-0, concede a goal around the 60th minute, and then Argentina converts in Extra Time. But this is the Beautiful Game, anything can happen!
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cant be chasing argentina all day, we need at least 40% possession to not see a repeat of belgium USA WC quarterfinals where brad guzan has to play the game of his life in order to keep us alive
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Sorry to say I told you so, but I have been a part of this game since 6 from kiddy soccer to the Pro level. I predicted all 3 roster spots Klinnsman went with (Beck, Zusi, and Wondo). All 3 aging players, but Klinnsman thought would add experience. Total backfire! It's his MO.....talked a big game about his players taking risks and going for it, but then doesn't back it up from his coaching decisions.
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Who would you have started in their place? Jordan morris hasnt exactly lit the world on fire and we have 0 depth in the midfield. I agree we need to add some pace but you also dont want to destroy some kids condidence by throwing him to the wolves of argentina, that team was better than us. Period end of story. This isnt on klinnsman
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Yep, totally agree they are worlds better than us. No argument from me on that end. One obvious spot should have been Nagbe. I don't buy into the destroy their confidence notion. Besler could step into the left back position, and push Fabian up or Yedlin to the outside mid instead of Zusi. Pulisic has been playing in Germany at a high level, so it's not like the stage is too big for him to start up top instead of Wondo. Pulisic's pace and dynamic game would have opened things up for Dempsey. Judging Pulisic and Nagbe in garbage time isn't fair, as the game had already been lost and it's a totally different situation at that point of the game. Klinnsman does own some blame or a lot of it as he didn't put his team in the best position to perform at their best. Now at their best probably still loses, unless Argentina just makes some huge mistakes that allows us to capitalize. My thought going in with the the lineup I suggest gets us to a 0-1 or 0-2 loss, but not a drudging of what we saw last night....32% possession, 0 Shots!, and 1 Corner...Not good enough period!!!!
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pulusic wasnt a regular starter for dortmund though, in fact as high of a level as he played, he still didnt start seeing any time until the league was well out of reach for them. (mathematically they were still in it but a 12 point deficit to bayern isnt going to be overcome). Nagbe is probably still learning, I have to put my trust into klinnsman seeing as he got us as far as he did with a team that had a lot of question marks. Besler would have been ripped apart by Argentina's pace. Zusi did not look bad at all, the only one I'm really upset we picked was wondo, our gameplan was clearly to setup shop on defense and hit on the counter and hopefully win through some headers and set pieces (aka american gameplan for the better part of the last 2 decades). Wondo and dempsey are good in the air, zusi is a great crosser of the ball, beckerman was a defensive minded player. Likewise i think we can all agree argentina's weakness is in the net. Romero is a joke, and otamendi and buenes furi (the other cb the everton guy) aren't particularly big, we had an advantage in the air. I really cant fault the gameplan seeing argentina beats us 9 times out of 10, maybe even more like 95 out of 100. But when you surrender a goal in the 3rd minute that changes EVERYTHING, you cant play that style anymore. furthermore from kickoff our players just looked confused and lost, their touches were awful, the passes were horrendous, the positioning wasn't good, we were ball watching on defense... the list goes on, and while some of it has to be attributed to argentina our players deserve some blame too. they didnt play their game.
Overall, I think this was a reality check for US soccer, just as the Belgium game should have been, it certainly brought us back down to Earth. We should have lost to belgium by a similar scoreline if not for Howard's heroics. We just dont have the depth or talent at this point, but you have to get props to klinnsman for what he did in this tournament. Brooks looks like a stud in the back, a lot of the questions were answered, bobby wood looked spectacular, zardes had some really bright moments, pulusic looks like a future star. but again lets not burn the kid out, look what happened to julian green, he was making a lot of noise in the bundesliga as well, and was supposed to start for hamburg following the world cup. The kid is still just 17, and i think klinnsman is taking a cautious approach to him, nurture him until hes ready. The guy knows a lot more than we do and there is a reason he did what he did
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Yeah, not thrilled at all about the starters. But how deep is Argentina that Aguero, Di Maria, Lamela and Pastore are all on the bench. The best bet is Zardes and Yedlin hit up that left side whenever in attack. Rojo and Funes Mori will break eventually.
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I'm embarrassed for your bitch ass throwing a fit at everyone else because you don't like something. You don't like soccer, we get it. Yet you still watch and take the effort to comment in these threads. Why? You have yet to answer that.
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While I agree (death would have just come by other means).
Short corner totally unprepared and bumrush Messi??? WTF???
Wondo going full moron with possibly the best Argentinean touch in the game, then compounding it by getting a yellow and setting Messi up at about the 26.
At least go down with some style or some pride or something.
I really wanted to believe we were going to target Mascherano... he is older and doesn't like to be harassed ... after Demps elbowed him I was praying someone anyone would try and get him going. After he hammered that out of bounds ball that hurt Lavezzi, I am not even sure we talked sh** to him about him f***g up his teammate. Too g....n nice. These are South Americans... if you let them they will make you their b****... and we let them do that tonight.
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I disagree on this, Guzan has to save that. The shot was to his side of the wall and you cannot be beaten to your side. He tried guessing before the shot and stepped the wrong way. He made a poor decision and got beat because of it
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It was a terrific shot. The problem I have is that Guzan could have matched it with a terrific save. Instead he took a step in the opposite direction. He was close to saving it and probably would have saved it if he didn't take that step to his right.
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Timmy has lost more than a step in the past couple years. There were a few saves Guzan made this tournament that I'm not sure Tim could have managed at this stage.
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It's kind of a damned if you do foul, damned if you don't foul there, it's Messi. He very well could have threaded his way thru and scored. I want Wondo out too, but don't blame him too much for the foul.
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He was trying to make up for his 10 year old fat kid touch (one of many on the night). Better to just take your medicine than him try and take Messi on from a terribly disadvantaged angle.
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No he was intentionally fouling him. I 100% agree with that decision to foul Messi in that situation and I think any other player would have done that too if he was in Wondos position on the field. You don't let Messi dribble at full speed, straight ahead, towards the space between your center backs, 30 yards out, and no one in front of him by 5 yards. He IS the best player in the world in that situation, and I would always rather take a free kick at 26 yards out than Messi seeing the entire field and our back line back pedaling while he sprints at them. In that situation he scores 9/10 times at least. Off a free kick a most he scores 5/10 times.
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You need to go look at the preceding 5 seconds. Wondo embarrassed himself, which he was very good at in this game (eventually I think they just stopped tried to pass it to him in holding situations).
Then he further embarrassed himself by no trusting his defenders to take care of the Messi in space problem. I'll take Cameron in space vs Messi over a free kick from Wondo every day of the week. Cameron is large guy (hard to just dribble through), defensive spacing was probably still good at that point. Trust your defenders to defend, that is what they are trained to do.
Not unlike Cuadrado's header last night. Keep the idiot forwards away from the box. Wondo should have been sitting on the bench for the ARG game. Sad we don't have someone better at forward.
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Definitely his fault for giving up the ball there. Not playing great whatsoever, but I can't blame him for that foul. I'd rather have a free kick than messi sprinting at our retreating back line.
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Honestly could have been a lot worse so far. We're in over our heads, but we knew we would be. They're simply a team loaded with better players than ours.
I can even see some bright spots. Cameron made a helluva stop, and Zardes is working his tail off.
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Our best players need to step up. End of story. Bradley hasnt looked good, guzan was totally at fault for the first goal... I expect it out of wondo but not those guys.
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Bradley can't do it alone. He's trying to link play between the likes of Beckerman and Wondo. Honestly, our midfield would be totally outclassed even with Jones in there.
Guzan made a mistake, but let's not forget that Messi was alone at the top of the box and Beckerman watched his man waltz to the ball.
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We only have a few guys competent in the midfield and I worry the German doesn't know who they are.
Woods, Dempsey, Bradley, Jones are the only guys I'd put in the middle of the field responsibilities... they should form a triangle dot (wood) as a base formation somewhere on the middle pitch... I think Pulisic and Nagbe show some skill ability to play in the middle with those guys. Everyone else needs to play off the guys in the middle and or pinch in when required. When Demps doesnt' get the ball much and Jones is out... this is a very bad team. The midfield just cannot slow the game down.
We are on the precipice it seems just can't figure if it is of greatness or dismal failure. Thank the lord Jones got back into shape.
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Problem with that theory is when jones and wood are suspended. The good news is we have some really promising prospects in the center of the pitch in zelalem. That being said I thought zardes looked ok today and thats good for him, the guy had his moments at this tournament. Will he be a superstar? Probably not, but could he be a solid contributor for a while? Sure
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two days later... but I think that is a great point
he is a different body type ... we cannot expect him to become a center of the field player right now... but his footwork is surprisingly good, he is just a little clumsy (yes I know he is an amazing athlete)
as he grows into his body I could see him becoming a big guy who can play in the center of the field... something like the ManCity big man Toure
but for now I think he is going to continue growing into his body... if his footwork and his body control continue to grow I think he could be a very big surprise (add in some good distribution and I think he could move inside)... if not I think he could still play outside at a very high level for the US for a number of years
Zelalem I think seems similar to Zardes in that he is younger and needs to continue growing into his body.... clearly he is "closer" to impacting the middle of the field than Zardes... but to me the question remains will he be athletic enough to stay in the middle and will he be graceful enough... clearly betting money would be on Zelalem... but Zardes has more relative upside because of his lower start
would love to see Z&Z become a staple in our midfield... whether it be center or center-outside... we need more guys who want to eclipse Landon, Bradley, Dempsey
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against TT or similar competition sure... but may be time to let the young strikers loose... or on a night like this if we got noone else unleash your highest workrate defender on the Arg defense and see if he can pop a few balls loose.
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I really wonder how much John Brooks is getting paid to throw this game. Have to wonder if he's sick or what, been almost completely absent on defense, two goals have been almost exclusively his fault
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He was trying to close down on Messi to make sure he couldn't get a shot off. He could be blamed for not closing out quicker, but he was the only one to step. Beckerman didn't follow Lavezzi on his run. No blame to Brooks IMO.
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Why no matter where the soccer match is held any country and tournament, Olympics whatever, is the medical staff look like chickens running around. There never seems to be any coordination or leadership. Just everyone run over there and crowd around the injured player.
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Good tournament from the US overall. Rough game tonight, but it can't be stressed enough, a LOT of things would have had to go really well for us to have a chance against a squad like Argentina. There's nothing to be ashamed of.
Excited for the 3rd place match, I think we'll see a lot more of the younger guys and they'll get their crack at Colombia again (my prediction).
Go Chile from here on out!
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Im just amused anyone seriously thought we had a chance, much like I'm always amused when there are those seriously thinking we can win the World Cup. We may be a big fish in the CONCACAF pond, but we are cannon fodder for any legitimate big boy countries when the games count. The only chance we ever have to knock off a top country is if we play perfect and they have a bad night.
I hope CONCACAF and CONEMBOL do come to an agreement and join forces for the Copa going forward. Playing for and winning the Gold Cup has only given USSF a false sense of place in the soccer world and we could really use a wake up call. And I'll say this... the push to bring USMNT players into the MLS ain't doing the national team any favors. Our best need to be playing and training with the best the game has to offer, and right now, MLS ain't that.
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But we played without 2 of our best middle of the field players against the #1 team in the World tonight. Bedoya is also an improvement over whomever was playing his spot. Our depth sucks... but we have more and more kids playing in European leagues... the depth is gonna come back. We need to keep the old guys for the next WC ... Demps, Bradley, Jones... while finding their replacements for the one after that.
So I hear you. But I think in a pristine best 11 game... it is a closer contest.
Too bad Donovan is such a panzy he couldn't still be playing and is instead ruining the play by play. Gonna be difficult to replace these guys. Our young guys have a few years to get better.... has to happen quickly.
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Even if we are gunning at full strength, we still get housed last night. 0 shots on goal, and Argentina was barely breaking a sweat. This was every bit the laugher your typical US basketball vs insert Caribbean island nation here game turns into. We come at them in top form and the score easily could have been uglier with them actually kicking it into high gear.
Mexico housed 7-0. US stomped 4-0. That right there is all you need to know about CONCACAF vs the rest of the world. Good chance we rarely if ever make the World Cup if not for CONCACAF.
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I don't agree with your last statement. I think it's an over-reaction to two bad games by two teams, who were matched up against two clearly better teams.
3 out of 4 qualified CONCACAF teams made it through to the knockouts in the last World Cup, and one made it to the quarter finals. 5 out of 6 CONMEBOL got to the knockouts. I think your statement would be far more accurate if you said "CONCACAF isn't as good as CONMEBOL". When you look at the world-wide landscape though, we're not really as bad as you think.
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Did anybody else feel like they were watching a Hokie football big game tonight? Damn that was a tough one. I wish we would have played better. Dempsey cant do much with out the ball though. Messi is a beast. I think US soccer is on the cusp of being really great soon. Merica'
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Man, between reruns of Gilligan's Island and The Beverly Hillbillies, and some really boring fishing shows, I somehow managed to miss this one. Was it really like a big Hokie game? I will now duck, cover, and surrender the requisite turkey legs I stand to lose as I yawn. /s (sorta)
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Bleh. My prediction was 3-1 Argentina, but I didn't think we'd be completely overrun like we were. Obviously missing Wood, Bedoya and Jones had some effect, but even with that in mind, Klinsmann botched the gameplan here badly.
The 4-4-2 with only the top 3 or 4 of the formation pressing left TONS of space in the middle of the field for Argentina to operate. And when you give Messi & Co. that much room to operate, bad things are going to happen.
People can complain about guys like Wondo & Beckerman having poor showings, but Klinsmann was asking them to perform a strategy that flat out doesn't fit their skillsets. A tactically sound coach would have adjusted to the personnel available (that he selected, mind you).
I had hope that Jurgen would actually do something sensible since his tactics had been pretty sound in the last few games. Playing Argentina was begging for a more conservative gameplan (with or without the suspended guys). But alas, that was not meant to be last night.
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I thought we played too tight the entire game, had a lot of turnovers from rushing passes, and let their passing get us out of shape. We never really found or composure. It felt the team thought they needed to be perfect to win (and they probably did), but giving up the early goal blew any chance we had to build confidence and play our best. We brought one of our worst efforts against one of the best teams. It would be nice to rebound with a good performance and something to build confidence on.
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The free kick from Messi was reminiscent of Ronaldo's in this video at the 1:28 mark. Messi's was a tad more in the upper corner, but similar pathway to the back of the net. Top 10 Ronaldo
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Yes, he's a once-in-a-lifetime talent, yes, he's the classiest player alive right now, yes, I love everything about his game... but man that one stings. Kind of like Braxton Miller's spin move x 1000.
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I'm not sure I could think of a 'better' kick I've seen taken. Some that are about as good, yeah, sure, but this is at or near the top of the stack. Kid is 29 years old. As far as I can remember, I've heard people talking about how Pele is the undisputed best ever, Maradona usually second, but by time Messi is done I think he'll be remembered as the greatest ever. Messi/Pele is the global version of Lebron/Jordan.
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Nicklaus/Tiger?
Different eras and different competition, but both rose above to do jaw dropping things. My dad got to see Pele play a couple of times in person, and after talking with him about Messi, he's just about as in awe of him for some of the things he can do on the pitch.
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Ive had a day to adjust and contemplate and I think jurgens comments were spot on. We respected them wayyyyy to much. We didnt look like ourselves, our touches were off our passing was predictable and there was little to no creativity on the field.
Also I think this game was evidence for why players cant just beat up on the mls. Bradley looked so out of whack the second he was pressed. Hes not used to it because it probably doesnt happen as quickly or aggresively at the mls level. Dude needs to play more top level competition so that hes ready for that style of play. (Just one example of the struggles we suffered)
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Comments
Go USA! But Argentina is a good team.
I'd put money on USA pulling out the win...but only if I put more money on Argentina winning it, 4-1.
FTFY.
Still cheering my butt off for the Stars and Stripes, hoping for a Lake Placidesque miracle.
That Spanish team which won the 2010 world cup was a great team. I'm not sure it's time to heap that praise on this Argentinian team yet...but they may be
And we beat that team the year before.
Would love to see us take down Argentina. I've expressed my distaste for them outside of Messi on the other thread. We could sneak out a win somehow.
I put money on Argentina at -1 and took the over on 2.5 goals..... Go USA though.... win win situation
Yea, as much as I'd like to win putting money on us is very optimistic. Argentina has the skill to go Chile on us, but here's to hoping Dempsey continues to be a beast!
yea baby! $$$$$$$
Guzan and the backline are going to have to play the best game of their careers for us to have a chance. Argentina should be able to control the ball and the pace of the game so I think we will have limited opportunities offensively (especially with Wood out). I hope we can win some set pieces, maybe a PK as well and then we need to score from those set pieces. It will be fun to watch and hopefully we can pull off a major upset.
all these suspensions. Oi. That Ecuador game is the definition of a Pyrrhic victory.
I am just excited that we made the semi's. Go USA!
Does anybody else use the CBS sports app? About 20 minutes ago, I got pushed a notification saying something like "USA defeats Argentina 1-..." Obviously, the game doesn't start for another 9.5 hours..
I was pissed for a moment as I thought the game might have started at 9am and I had missed it, but I was thrilled that it said 'USA defeats'.
Now, I am just a mix of sad and annoyed, while I ponder on whether or not I'll ever again be able to trust the validity of a push notification.
I got something similar last week for a game that hadn't started. I wonder if this is just shit technology management on CBS' part or if this is some bullshit to draw more app views.
It said they beat them in 1995, the last time we played them in Copa America
talk about your click bait...
Ahh, thanks. When i opened said push notification, no page loaded. I didn't get those last details.
Either way, that is wholly a click bait headline, with just the perfect amount of truncation. To hell with CBS sports!
We actually played them in the 2007 Copa America as well and lost 4-1. It was an experimental side against a pretty stout Argentina team, but the 1995 game is one of the best US wins.
I think it is going to be a messy win
FTFY
Yeah that was the joke
Short of our fans acting like the Russians at the Euros, I can't be upset with any outcome tonight. We've done well to get this far, and should be pleased with how the team has performed.
Does this tourney have any bearing on the US qualifying for RIO?...or has that already been determined?
No. WCQ resumes in September as the U.S. travel St. Vincent and the Grenadines and host Trinidad and Tobago. Will need at least 4 points to assure qualification to the next round, but should have it wrapped up if we beat SVG and T&T at least draw Guatemala.
EDIT: Whoops...yeah...Olympics are U23 and we missed.
If you mean the Rio Olympics, the answer is no.
The US men did not qualify for the Rio Olympics unfortunately. It's a U-23 tournament, so the senior team doesn't have any bearing there. For the Olympics themselves, each country is allowed a few overage players per squad.
When we have possession, we HAVE to be smart with where we pass the ball. Also can't get dis-possessed in our own half or Argentina's attacked 3rd. Hopefully Bradley plays well and doesn't make any foolish choices when distributing out of the back. It'd be super, super nice if we had Jones, he's our X-factor in my opinion, he has such an engine.
Personally, I take Argentina 2-1 in ET. USA strikes first, goes into HT up 1-0, concede a goal around the 60th minute, and then Argentina converts in Extra Time. But this is the Beautiful Game, anything can happen!
Agreed. This is how we end up in a Chile-Mexico kind of game.
Edit: WELP
No extra time until the finals - straight to PKs. So I'll take the 1-1 tie because anything can happen in PKs.
One of my favorite intros ever, any sport. Wright Thompson on the USMNT before Belgium.
that was pretty cool! Thanks for sharing
"their fathers were soldiers and truck drivers, and they play like it."
gets me right in the feels, every time.
cant be chasing argentina all day, we need at least 40% possession to not see a repeat of belgium USA WC quarterfinals where brad guzan has to play the game of his life in order to keep us alive
This would've been the perfect time to throw in Beckerman and have him shadow Messi all game.
That guy was the best too bad he isn't there to choose
Beckerman is on the roster, and will probably start tonight.
Boo! Too old. Need to start Nagbe and Pulisic.
Beckerman will get in Messi's head. He's notorious for roughing guys up. I bet pulisic and Nagbe make sub appearances. Seems to be their best role
I don't share that confidence. Messi knows how to deal with far more problematic players than Kyle Beckerman.
Heh, like that goal in the 3rd minute where he lost his marker for the goal.
My soccer knowledge is incompetent.
Thank you for reminding me!
Sorry to say I told you so, but I have been a part of this game since 6 from kiddy soccer to the Pro level. I predicted all 3 roster spots Klinnsman went with (Beck, Zusi, and Wondo). All 3 aging players, but Klinnsman thought would add experience. Total backfire! It's his MO.....talked a big game about his players taking risks and going for it, but then doesn't back it up from his coaching decisions.
Who would you have started in their place? Jordan morris hasnt exactly lit the world on fire and we have 0 depth in the midfield. I agree we need to add some pace but you also dont want to destroy some kids condidence by throwing him to the wolves of argentina, that team was better than us. Period end of story. This isnt on klinnsman
Yep, totally agree they are worlds better than us. No argument from me on that end. One obvious spot should have been Nagbe. I don't buy into the destroy their confidence notion. Besler could step into the left back position, and push Fabian up or Yedlin to the outside mid instead of Zusi. Pulisic has been playing in Germany at a high level, so it's not like the stage is too big for him to start up top instead of Wondo. Pulisic's pace and dynamic game would have opened things up for Dempsey. Judging Pulisic and Nagbe in garbage time isn't fair, as the game had already been lost and it's a totally different situation at that point of the game. Klinnsman does own some blame or a lot of it as he didn't put his team in the best position to perform at their best. Now at their best probably still loses, unless Argentina just makes some huge mistakes that allows us to capitalize. My thought going in with the the lineup I suggest gets us to a 0-1 or 0-2 loss, but not a drudging of what we saw last night....32% possession, 0 Shots!, and 1 Corner...Not good enough period!!!!
pulusic wasnt a regular starter for dortmund though, in fact as high of a level as he played, he still didnt start seeing any time until the league was well out of reach for them. (mathematically they were still in it but a 12 point deficit to bayern isnt going to be overcome). Nagbe is probably still learning, I have to put my trust into klinnsman seeing as he got us as far as he did with a team that had a lot of question marks. Besler would have been ripped apart by Argentina's pace. Zusi did not look bad at all, the only one I'm really upset we picked was wondo, our gameplan was clearly to setup shop on defense and hit on the counter and hopefully win through some headers and set pieces (aka american gameplan for the better part of the last 2 decades). Wondo and dempsey are good in the air, zusi is a great crosser of the ball, beckerman was a defensive minded player. Likewise i think we can all agree argentina's weakness is in the net. Romero is a joke, and otamendi and buenes furi (the other cb the everton guy) aren't particularly big, we had an advantage in the air. I really cant fault the gameplan seeing argentina beats us 9 times out of 10, maybe even more like 95 out of 100. But when you surrender a goal in the 3rd minute that changes EVERYTHING, you cant play that style anymore. furthermore from kickoff our players just looked confused and lost, their touches were awful, the passes were horrendous, the positioning wasn't good, we were ball watching on defense... the list goes on, and while some of it has to be attributed to argentina our players deserve some blame too. they didnt play their game.
Overall, I think this was a reality check for US soccer, just as the Belgium game should have been, it certainly brought us back down to Earth. We should have lost to belgium by a similar scoreline if not for Howard's heroics. We just dont have the depth or talent at this point, but you have to get props to klinnsman for what he did in this tournament. Brooks looks like a stud in the back, a lot of the questions were answered, bobby wood looked spectacular, zardes had some really bright moments, pulusic looks like a future star. but again lets not burn the kid out, look what happened to julian green, he was making a lot of noise in the bundesliga as well, and was supposed to start for hamburg following the world cup. The kid is still just 17, and i think klinnsman is taking a cautious approach to him, nurture him until hes ready. The guy knows a lot more than we do and there is a reason he did what he did
Agree on some, and disagree on some. I will leave it at that, but respect your take.
From US Soccer . com:
Wondo? Really?
Yeah, not thrilled at all about the starters. But how deep is Argentina that Aguero, Di Maria, Lamela and Pastore are all on the bench. The best bet is Zardes and Yedlin hit up that left side whenever in attack. Rojo and Funes Mori will break eventually.
If we are running with them and it is 0-0 at half expect a 4-3-3 in the 2nd half.
Nm.....
2 minutes in and Beckerman has already turned the ball over twice. Not a promising sign.
WELP
The game is already over. Soccer is so exciting
Don't watch then. Also, don't come to a thread dedicated to it.
If you can give me one good fucking reason why you feel the need to say that I'll undo my down vote.
Spoiler: there is none. You sound like a steroid laden sixteen year old high school jock.
I am none of those things, but thanks for making a personal attack for some reason
It really is ridiculous and I am embarrassed for you
I'm embarrassed for your bitch ass throwing a fit at everyone else because you don't like something. You don't like soccer, we get it. Yet you still watch and take the effort to comment in these threads. Why? You have yet to answer that.
There is no need to curse at me man. Chill out.
@ Everyone:
I'm just waiting for an explanation.
I got 7 down votes for calling it like I see it?
9 now
Argentina scores in less than 3 minutes...
Indecision from a goalkeeper rarely ends well..
Beckerman and Bradley not playing well so far. Both have given up possession and Beckerman failed to mark the eventual goal scorer...fantastic.
Someone in the other thread called it and I agreed, Beckerman isn't good enough and Bradley is gonna take a big portion of blame for it.
Not a lot Bradley can do with nobody to link up with in the middle. Ah well.
I agree 100%, however Bradley loses possession when Jones is in, so you can't place it all on Beckerman. Bradley has already had one hospital pass...
They're also bouncing off our strikers when he does find a lane. It's frustrating but not surprising.
Would love to see some semblance of an attempt to maintain possession. 25-75 at this point and every time we get it we clear it.
I just asked my friends, have we completed 3 consecutive passes yet? I don't know if we have.
What a fucking snipe. Messi is incredible
Play defensive and get what you ask for against Argentina
Wouldnt have mattered how we played. We look beyond flustered tonight and in over our heads
While I agree (death would have just come by other means).
Short corner totally unprepared and bumrush Messi??? WTF???
Wondo going full moron with possibly the best Argentinean touch in the game, then compounding it by getting a yellow and setting Messi up at about the 26.
At least go down with some style or some pride or something.
I really wanted to believe we were going to target Mascherano... he is older and doesn't like to be harassed ... after Demps elbowed him I was praying someone anyone would try and get him going. After he hammered that out of bounds ball that hurt Lavezzi, I am not even sure we talked sh** to him about him f***g up his teammate. Too g....n nice. These are South Americans... if you let them they will make you their b****... and we let them do that tonight.
Good lord what a strike.
Nothing anybody could have done to stop that.
Oh. Damn.
Messi was like a surgeon with that goal. Dude is sick. Love watching him play, even if it is at our expense.
I ain't even mad, that was just crazy. Nice goal.
Yep, can't be mad at that. Only way Guzan could have gotten that is if he somehow deployed some go-go gadget arms.
I disagree on this, Guzan has to save that. The shot was to his side of the wall and you cannot be beaten to your side. He tried guessing before the shot and stepped the wrong way. He made a poor decision and got beat because of it
Count me in the other camp. That shot was perfect, and Guzan made the move everyone else would have.
Agreed. That placement was perfect. He wasn't getting to that ball.
It was a terrific shot. The problem I have is that Guzan could have matched it with a terrific save. Instead he took a step in the opposite direction. He was close to saving it and probably would have saved it if he didn't take that step to his right.
FWIW, I agree... he should have gotten that one.
I would kill my keeper for playing that far off his line... if you got no vert ... you gotta play a step or two deeper.
TimH gets that one.
Timmy has lost more than a step in the past couple years. There were a few saves Guzan made this tournament that I'm not sure Tim could have managed at this stage.
Wondo. Gives the ball away, commits the foul 25 yards from the goal. Get him out of the game.
Hell be out at half
I honestly thought he'd do better than this, but whew this is terrible.
MLS is not world class international. I love the guy, but just not at the ARG level.
It's kind of a damned if you do foul, damned if you don't foul there, it's Messi. He very well could have threaded his way thru and scored. I want Wondo out too, but don't blame him too much for the foul.
He was trying to make up for his 10 year old fat kid touch (one of many on the night). Better to just take your medicine than him try and take Messi on from a terribly disadvantaged angle.
No he was intentionally fouling him. I 100% agree with that decision to foul Messi in that situation and I think any other player would have done that too if he was in Wondos position on the field. You don't let Messi dribble at full speed, straight ahead, towards the space between your center backs, 30 yards out, and no one in front of him by 5 yards. He IS the best player in the world in that situation, and I would always rather take a free kick at 26 yards out than Messi seeing the entire field and our back line back pedaling while he sprints at them. In that situation he scores 9/10 times at least. Off a free kick a most he scores 5/10 times.
Totally disagree.
You need to go look at the preceding 5 seconds. Wondo embarrassed himself, which he was very good at in this game (eventually I think they just stopped tried to pass it to him in holding situations).
Then he further embarrassed himself by no trusting his defenders to take care of the Messi in space problem. I'll take Cameron in space vs Messi over a free kick from Wondo every day of the week. Cameron is large guy (hard to just dribble through), defensive spacing was probably still good at that point. Trust your defenders to defend, that is what they are trained to do.
Not unlike Cuadrado's header last night. Keep the idiot forwards away from the box. Wondo should have been sitting on the bench for the ARG game. Sad we don't have someone better at forward.
Definitely his fault for giving up the ball there. Not playing great whatsoever, but I can't blame him for that foul. I'd rather have a free kick than messi sprinting at our retreating back line.
We're not getting any calls tonight either.
Officiating has been great so far, no complaints from me.
That was a beautiful goal by Messi though
Honestly could have been a lot worse so far. We're in over our heads, but we knew we would be. They're simply a team loaded with better players than ours.
I can even see some bright spots. Cameron made a helluva stop, and Zardes is working his tail off.
Don't look at the possession stats. Yikes.
Our best players need to step up. End of story. Bradley hasnt looked good, guzan was totally at fault for the first goal... I expect it out of wondo but not those guys.
Pull Beckerman for Nagbe. Let Bradley drop back. Pull Wondo NOW put in Pulisic
Bradley can't do it alone. He's trying to link play between the likes of Beckerman and Wondo. Honestly, our midfield would be totally outclassed even with Jones in there.
Guzan made a mistake, but let's not forget that Messi was alone at the top of the box and Beckerman watched his man waltz to the ball.
Yeah I think if Beckerman is subbed Bradley would benefit. Think you basically get two subs for one with Beckerman off.
We only have a few guys competent in the midfield and I worry the German doesn't know who they are.
Woods, Dempsey, Bradley, Jones are the only guys I'd put in the middle of the field responsibilities... they should form a triangle dot (wood) as a base formation somewhere on the middle pitch... I think Pulisic and Nagbe show some skill ability to play in the middle with those guys. Everyone else needs to play off the guys in the middle and or pinch in when required. When Demps doesnt' get the ball much and Jones is out... this is a very bad team. The midfield just cannot slow the game down.
We are on the precipice it seems just can't figure if it is of greatness or dismal failure. Thank the lord Jones got back into shape.
Problem with that theory is when jones and wood are suspended. The good news is we have some really promising prospects in the center of the pitch in zelalem. That being said I thought zardes looked ok today and thats good for him, the guy had his moments at this tournament. Will he be a superstar? Probably not, but could he be a solid contributor for a while? Sure
two days later... but I think that is a great point
he is a different body type ... we cannot expect him to become a center of the field player right now... but his footwork is surprisingly good, he is just a little clumsy (yes I know he is an amazing athlete)
as he grows into his body I could see him becoming a big guy who can play in the center of the field... something like the ManCity big man Toure
but for now I think he is going to continue growing into his body... if his footwork and his body control continue to grow I think he could be a very big surprise (add in some good distribution and I think he could move inside)... if not I think he could still play outside at a very high level for the US for a number of years
Zelalem I think seems similar to Zardes in that he is younger and needs to continue growing into his body.... clearly he is "closer" to impacting the middle of the field than Zardes... but to me the question remains will he be athletic enough to stay in the middle and will he be graceful enough... clearly betting money would be on Zelalem... but Zardes has more relative upside because of his lower start
would love to see Z&Z become a staple in our midfield... whether it be center or center-outside... we need more guys who want to eclipse Landon, Bradley, Dempsey
Hopefully this is the last time we ever see Wondo.
against TT or similar competition sure... but may be time to let the young strikers loose... or on a night like this if we got noone else unleash your highest workrate defender on the Arg defense and see if he can pop a few balls loose.
I wonder if Argentina is going to try to top Chile's 7-0 route of Mexico....
Pulisic was fouled. Sorry, but they've been calling that on us all night. Oh well. We weren't going to win anyway.
I really wonder how much John Brooks is getting paid to throw this game. Have to wonder if he's sick or what, been almost completely absent on defense, two goals have been almost exclusively his fault
Two? The first was a mix of Guzan and Beckerman, second was a foul by Wondo. So it can't be two.
First was definitely on Brooks, he was out by the 18 instead of marking his man
He was trying to close down on Messi to make sure he couldn't get a shot off. He could be blamed for not closing out quicker, but he was the only one to step. Beckerman didn't follow Lavezzi on his run. No blame to Brooks IMO.
there were 4 guys there rushing messi... just needed one to cover levezzi
Becks could have gotten there just didn't seem like he wanted to be bothered
1 goal, first was on geoff
Drinking game of death...drink when someone flops #CopaAmerica2016
Why no matter where the soccer match is held any country and tournament, Olympics whatever, is the medical staff look like chickens running around. There never seems to be any coordination or leadership. Just everyone run over there and crowd around the injured player.
American football is kinda like that lol.
Good tournament from the US overall. Rough game tonight, but it can't be stressed enough, a LOT of things would have had to go really well for us to have a chance against a squad like Argentina. There's nothing to be ashamed of.
Excited for the 3rd place match, I think we'll see a lot more of the younger guys and they'll get their crack at Colombia again (my prediction).
Go Chile from here on out!
Well...that was an ass-whoopin.
Im just amused anyone seriously thought we had a chance, much like I'm always amused when there are those seriously thinking we can win the World Cup. We may be a big fish in the CONCACAF pond, but we are cannon fodder for any legitimate big boy countries when the games count. The only chance we ever have to knock off a top country is if we play perfect and they have a bad night.
I hope CONCACAF and CONEMBOL do come to an agreement and join forces for the Copa going forward. Playing for and winning the Gold Cup has only given USSF a false sense of place in the soccer world and we could really use a wake up call. And I'll say this... the push to bring USMNT players into the MLS ain't doing the national team any favors. Our best need to be playing and training with the best the game has to offer, and right now, MLS ain't that.
Agree with much of what you said.
But we played without 2 of our best middle of the field players against the #1 team in the World tonight. Bedoya is also an improvement over whomever was playing his spot. Our depth sucks... but we have more and more kids playing in European leagues... the depth is gonna come back. We need to keep the old guys for the next WC ... Demps, Bradley, Jones... while finding their replacements for the one after that.
So I hear you. But I think in a pristine best 11 game... it is a closer contest.
Too bad Donovan is such a panzy he couldn't still be playing and is instead ruining the play by play. Gonna be difficult to replace these guys. Our young guys have a few years to get better.... has to happen quickly.
Even if we are gunning at full strength, we still get housed last night. 0 shots on goal, and Argentina was barely breaking a sweat. This was every bit the laugher your typical US basketball vs insert Caribbean island nation here game turns into. We come at them in top form and the score easily could have been uglier with them actually kicking it into high gear.
Mexico housed 7-0. US stomped 4-0. That right there is all you need to know about CONCACAF vs the rest of the world. Good chance we rarely if ever make the World Cup if not for CONCACAF.
I don't agree with your last statement. I think it's an over-reaction to two bad games by two teams, who were matched up against two clearly better teams.
3 out of 4 qualified CONCACAF teams made it through to the knockouts in the last World Cup, and one made it to the quarter finals. 5 out of 6 CONMEBOL got to the knockouts. I think your statement would be far more accurate if you said "CONCACAF isn't as good as CONMEBOL". When you look at the world-wide landscape though, we're not really as bad as you think.
America always has a 1776% chance of winning when we step on the field.
Did anybody else feel like they were watching a Hokie football big game tonight? Damn that was a tough one. I wish we would have played better. Dempsey cant do much with out the ball though. Messi is a beast. I think US soccer is on the cusp of being really great soon. Merica'
Man, between reruns of Gilligan's Island and The Beverly Hillbillies, and some really boring fishing shows, I somehow managed to miss this one. Was it really like a big Hokie game? I will now duck, cover, and surrender the requisite turkey legs I stand to lose as I yawn. /s (sorta)
Bleh. My prediction was 3-1 Argentina, but I didn't think we'd be completely overrun like we were. Obviously missing Wood, Bedoya and Jones had some effect, but even with that in mind, Klinsmann botched the gameplan here badly.
The 4-4-2 with only the top 3 or 4 of the formation pressing left TONS of space in the middle of the field for Argentina to operate. And when you give Messi & Co. that much room to operate, bad things are going to happen.
People can complain about guys like Wondo & Beckerman having poor showings, but Klinsmann was asking them to perform a strategy that flat out doesn't fit their skillsets. A tactically sound coach would have adjusted to the personnel available (that he selected, mind you).
I had hope that Jurgen would actually do something sensible since his tactics had been pretty sound in the last few games. Playing Argentina was begging for a more conservative gameplan (with or without the suspended guys). But alas, that was not meant to be last night.
That was a tough one to watch. It felt like we never even had a chance to attack, just on the defensive the entire game. Argentina owned us badly.
I thought we played too tight the entire game, had a lot of turnovers from rushing passes, and let their passing get us out of shape. We never really found or composure. It felt the team thought they needed to be perfect to win (and they probably did), but giving up the early goal blew any chance we had to build confidence and play our best. We brought one of our worst efforts against one of the best teams. It would be nice to rebound with a good performance and something to build confidence on.
That first play was all like
The free kick from Messi was reminiscent of Ronaldo's in this video at the 1:28 mark. Messi's was a tad more in the upper corner, but similar pathway to the back of the net.
Top 10 Ronaldo
Here's the Messi video.
Yes, he's a once-in-a-lifetime talent, yes, he's the classiest player alive right now, yes, I love everything about his game... but man that one stings. Kind of like Braxton Miller's spin move x 1000.
I'm not sure I could think of a 'better' kick I've seen taken. Some that are about as good, yeah, sure, but this is at or near the top of the stack. Kid is 29 years old. As far as I can remember, I've heard people talking about how Pele is the undisputed best ever, Maradona usually second, but by time Messi is done I think he'll be remembered as the greatest ever. Messi/Pele is the global version of Lebron/Jordan.
Nicklaus/Tiger?
Different eras and different competition, but both rose above to do jaw dropping things. My dad got to see Pele play a couple of times in person, and after talking with him about Messi, he's just about as in awe of him for some of the things he can do on the pitch.
Roberto carlos disagrees with your free kick statement
http://youtu.be/3ECoR__tJNQ
Cant embed on my phone
oh my goodness. I believe that's called putting some English on it...Brazilian style.
Ive had a day to adjust and contemplate and I think jurgens comments were spot on. We respected them wayyyyy to much. We didnt look like ourselves, our touches were off our passing was predictable and there was little to no creativity on the field.
Also I think this game was evidence for why players cant just beat up on the mls. Bradley looked so out of whack the second he was pressed. Hes not used to it because it probably doesnt happen as quickly or aggresively at the mls level. Dude needs to play more top level competition so that hes ready for that style of play. (Just one example of the struggles we suffered)