Well its finally August... we made it!!!!!!!!!!!! The roller-coaster that is called recruiting has hit its ups and downs and flips but Fuente is quietly building depth and addressing some glaring needs while also getting out on the trail for the years to come.
2017 Offers
Janaz Jordan
Unranked 6'3" 290lb DT out of Hampton VA, from multiple recruiting outlets he has the chance to gain some bigger offers during his senior season.
HUDL
Zamari Maxwell
3* 6'1" 175lb CB out of Largo, FL. He has a unique offer list for sure, Iowa, Kentucky, UT, UCF, Iowa St, and ECU. Kid has an eye for the ball and isn't afraid to lower the boom.
HUDL
Benjamin St-Juste
3* 6'3" 188lb DB out of Montreal, QC currently committed to Michigan as that is his only offer. I like what I see in terms of size and its never a bad idea to follow harbaugh with a kid like this. If VT can get him to visit that would be a step in the right direction.
HUDL
2018 Offers
John Harris
6'4" 260lb OG/OT out of Hoschton, GA. Currently has 2 offers (UNC & VT) and a preferred walk on spot at Georgia. Vice is starting to get his name out their for that O Line which is always a good thing to see.
HUDL
6'3" 220lb WDE out of Asheville, NC name might sound familiar as his brother was being recruited back in 2016 but ended up at South Carolina.
HUDL
John Morgan
6'2" 236 lb TE/DE/LB out of Hyattsville, MD will be interesting to see where this goes, he could easily be an LB but I could see him fitting that H Back role pretty well just off size and how well he moves. HUDL is more of a team HUDL and not player focused.
6'2" 180lb safety out of Greensboro, NC. This kid has it all according to multiple recruiting outlets and will most likely be a top recruit come 2018 for his area.
HUDL
Tyree Henry
6'4" 205lb WR out of Berlin, MD early offers from Maryland and WVU for now. Good size right off the bat, could grow into that pass catching TE/Bucky Hodges role we will see this year.
HUDL
Darryle Simmons
3* 6'2" 196lb WR out of Philadelphia, PA Crystal Ball is 100% Penn State but we all know how reliable those are. Offers from Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Syracuse, VT and uva <- doesn't deserve to be capitalized.
HUDL
SEAL OF APPROVAL
Comments
I am cautiously optimistic that this won't quickly turn into a 100 comment argument about how this staff can't recruit and we need to be exactly like Clemson.
After a strong July followed by some very positive speculation about some pending commitments, things seem to be looking up. Hopefully we can put a good product on the field early and often this season to help keep our momentum rolling.
100 comments isn't so bad...when it gets to 500+ and there are side-discussions about morality and stuff..that's when you throw in the towel
I should have clarified, I think the May or June thread got to 100 within the first few days. Overall, we are talking about the same thing haha.
Well, it's the 10th and we're at 113. 114 with mine.
But really, I'm in a "wait and see" mode. If winning --> better recruiting, then we need to win quickly. I don't really believe Fuente gets much time, and he'll have to overachieve quickly
Do you really think he is on a short leash? I'm interested to hear why you think that. We got what most analysts/pundits/other coaches called a home run hire.
Disclaimer: I don't have this opinion at all...just thinking outside the box
The only possible argument I can see for Fuente having a short leash is that this isn't considered a "total rebuild" and Beamer left VT in decent shape talent-wise plus our conference, though up and coming, isn't the gauntlet it could be right now. Fuente should be able to win fairly quickly given those circumstances.
?? I guess?
Short leash? No. But lets look at a few things:
1. The cupboard isn't bare. Even at QB we have experience. We have the finest Defensive Staff you could hope for, and an offensive-minded coach
2. Fuente hasn't sold the "sunnier days" "fresh look" "potential for success" to the blue chip recruits (at least not yet)
3. The mantra (and i'm nto saying itts not true), is that winning will raise the profile of the school and get us the better recruits.
So, lets look at it this way, we only recruit at a high level when we win, so for ever year we do not win, we have another class at a lower tier. And you are not going to get to the ultimate prize without the blue chippers (hell, we were only winning ACC championships with a couple blue chippers).
At some point we have to overachieve to win and recruit the big boys, but how many years until we do that? The longer we recruit at "the end of beamer days" levels, the harder it will be to do that.
I think Fuente was a GREAT hire. Home run? I don't think so, but I think he's also one of the best we could get (and I'm happy that we got him). I want him to do more with less NOW, so that we can make it to that next level.
How do you know he's not selling the "potential" vision to recruits? I'd be surprised if they weren't.
My take is that recruiting is picking up momentum around the types of players Fuente needs for his scheme. This has been discussed before but Fuente seems to be a scheme guy vs a recruit for top talent guy. I'm getting the sense he's going to run things a little like Bud where there are some key positions like QB, RB, or WR that require talent for us to be good. The rest of the offense will be comprised of average players that play a role in the scheme. Think Oregon, TCU, etc. I'm reserving judgment for a few more cycles to see if we can land highly rated QB. This seems to be the real leverage point in his offense. You'd probably evaluate Bud similarly on whether he's getting good CB's or DE's in a cycle. Without top talent in those positions we know our defense won't be great.
Net net I'm not sure we ever recruit with the big boys under Fuente. His entire offensive strategy appears to be based on a scheme designed to do more with less. Except for maybe for a few key positions. And to your point they'll probably start coming with the wins.
Go Hokies!
I said to BLUE CHIP recruits. Obviously he's getting some of the guys he wants based on his vision (and previous success at Memphis).
I believe that we not only CAN recruit with the big boys under Fuente (assuming he overachieves with our current level of recruiting), but we have to in order to perform on the national stage.
I almost rebuilt the LOLUVA Fail Chart into the VT Success Chart to counter this point but I got too lazy.
Suffice to say the only changes are "Win 10+ games?", "Beat LOLUVA", and "Year >= 29?"
Don't forget whisky. Particularly corn'd whiskey.
Hope we can keep the momentum going after 2 weeks ago. Thanks for posting the HUDL
links, that's a useful tool. How much stock do you guys put in the star ratings?
There are many stories about how the star ratings didn't equate to INDIVIDUAL on field success, but am guessing that there's a pretty direct correlation to CLASS rankings and team W-L success. If anything, depth of talent when the injury bug hits would certainly count.
Be interesting to see an analysis to see how close the mark I am.
Star ratings do translate to individual success. Less accurately than a recruiting class aggregate, but still with a clear correlation.
From the 2014 draft
A five-star recruit had a three-in-five chance of getting drafted (16 of 27).
A four-star had a one-in-five chance (77 of 395).
A three-star had a one-in-18 chance (92 of 1,644).
A two-star/unrated recruit had a one-in-34 chance (71 of 2,434)
Those numbers are pretty consistent across years
If you analyzed VT, you'd see that trend as well, despite what all the 2* Kam folks will try and tell you
I look at is as star rankings will give you a good idea as to how early he will benefit your football team.
5*- immediate impact 2 deep player
4*- good chance of 2 deep definitely will have a role
3*- red-shirt season unless depth at position is non existent
It's interesting to see how recruits play out. You have the obviously
talented 4's and 5's but is there a benefit to molding the 3's?
Great to see were making strides in NC. Greensboro is the closest talent center to VT so we need to take advantage. Mook and Hooker are a big plus there.
We are lined up great with Crossen and Tre Turner for 2018. Both should be top 10 NC guys
Brailyn Franklin to Penn State
https://www.landof10.com/penn-state/virginia-athlete-brailyn-franklin-co...
I'm not kidding, I thought he committed to us a few months ago.
Is "in-state" recruiting just not a thing anymore? With kids having such easy access to so many schools for recruiting, with parents facetiming their kids, very little to tie a kid to a geographical area anymore. I see all the 2018 offers listed here are out-of-state.
{I realize that isn't as much about Franklin who was a Virginia transplant anyway.}
In-state recruiting is still very much a thing. Our top prospect, Slade, is an in-state guy off the top of my head.
Specifically for Franklin, it looks like we cooled on him right when Penn State started really liking him. I think him going there is best for everyone.
But yes, geography is less important now than ever, no doubt about that.
Someone embed this?
Devon Hunter
I'll give it a shot :|
Edit: hey whaddaya know?! First try!
Yeah, limitations of Twitter on iPhone. No embed option. Anyone know of a workaround?
If you're using chrome on mobile
1) go to webpage of tweet
2) click the three dots at the top left of chrome and choose "request desktop site"
3) from there you can choose the three dots on the actual tweet and choose "embed tweet"
4) navigating from here is tricky on mobile but if you play around with it you should be able to select the html code and paste it into the reply box
Is Chrome on mobile any good? If I go to "actual" website on Safari, the dots give me even less choices. Apple making life easier by removing options again...
I exclusively use Chrome on all devices. Logged in via my Google account, my browsers are synced on my laptop (Mac), phone (iPhone, but was also the case with my last phone, an Android), my iPad, and my office workstation (Linux). Seamless.
I started to use it regularly a while back, but it would freeze or tie up system resources too often on regular tasks (like web browsing). And in some of my devices the endless "no longer supported"/"modern [fill in the blank]" messages became too annoying.
I know I just ribbed on Apple for oversimplifying, but couldn't chrome have a normal settings interface or menu system?
I'll add that chrome allows you to essentially log into your browser on anyone's computer who has chrome to easily access your bookmarks and auto fill forms. Haven't really used that feature yet but it's nice to know its available
4* WR Tajh Capehart to commit this Saturday!!!
I find it hilarious that for once, not only is a recruit not using the chicken emoji for VT, but he is also using the turkey emoji for USCe.
Virginia Tech upped its official scholarship letter game.
Oh thank goodness, forghorn leghorn needs to be wiped from our history
Yeah, I was looking for the old-school gobbler logo last night for a car and I kept seeing that stupid Foghorn Leghorn. That's gotta go. It's fine for the mascot, but we need to transition to a more sleek look until the Foghorn Leghorn is ironically back in style like Oregon's duck.....and like Oregon, use it sparingly.
By the way, if anyone knows where you can get the gobbler car decal, please let me know.
http://www.bookstore.vt.edu/ePOS?this_category=896&store=109&form=shared...
I finally found it about a month ago in the University Bookstore catalog. You have to scroll to page 16-17 and it's not very user friendly (on the phone at least), but I know they're available from University Bookstore
That's been the style for a little while, just with minor updates. We updated it for the 2015 class and our favorite punt returner, Tim Settle, showed it to us. The wording is the exact same, with some minor rearranging, even if the heading font matches our new style. Otherwise, it's jersey to match the recruiting class year on one side and letter on the other. I like Fuente's touch with the personal note at the bottom though. Not every coach does that, so it makes it more personal.
Looks fine, but it is a picture of a folded jersey. Something like this (minus the schedule, JFFC, etc.) would be cooler.
Did Michael Bay make this? Joking. Its a solid piece and catches the eye very nice.
Not enough explosions
The REAL Coach "Fu" is better than YOU!
The 10 yr old in me wants to pour out a giant bowl of Fruit Loops and watch this GIF all morning.
It was time to go outside and play when Looney Tunes went off and Soul Train came on.
Yeah, the real Foghorn is awesome!
"Boy is about as sharp as a bowling ball".
"Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered for just such an emergency"... Stuff never gets old.
I occasionally run across people who remind me of cartoon characters (I watched a LOT of cartoons when I was a kid/teenager/adult/yesterday). For instance:
Everytime I see 'ol Brent on TV, I can't help but hear Dodsworth's voice.
better yet
Wow, that's the best resemblance yet! I can't stop laughing....
LOL! It's a cartoon world, I tellya.
Every time I head to Suffolk from VB, I think "thufferin' thuffolk" in my head (no offense to all of you Suffolkians out there).
Indeed it is...There is this lady that works in an office building next to mine, and everytime I see her, I think of this chick...
Fittingly, she is a wahoo.
Wahoo, you say?
_
[Hellmans.com]
We are picking up a lot of CBs for Tahj Capehart.
Really hope we land another big time recruit!
You're not tricking me. The Emotional Commitment store is closed.
Good man.
I'll stick with hopeful optimism but, to each their own
After the past two or three weeks, hopeful optimism is trending.
Hopeful optimism until a recruit chooses someone else. Then we are all doom and gloom again.
I have never joined the doom and gloom train, in fact I am quite active in the fight against it. :D
A lot of people on TSL are going to be really upset if he picks us and makes them look stupid for their Fu can't recruit rants. Or they'll just stick with the recruits don't count until they sign/get admitted/play/go pro defense.
Is TSL really that bad? I haven't been over there as I don't care for their format but damn, that's harsh.
Nothing wrong with TSL, great place.
/s
I go here more than TSL. TSL changed their message board format and then elected to go back to the 90s format because users (how old are some of these guys?) complained.
There is some negativity, but I think you get that on all sites.
However, it is still a good place for information.
Personally, I'm kinda sick of the "TSL sucks" narrative here. Shoot, the posters at 247 have carried the "Fu can't recruit" mantle for quite a while, IMO. TSL hasn't been half bad recently, and their staff is as outstanding as ever. I'll always stay at TKP for the community here, but we don't have to keep bashing TSL's.
The comment format alone is worth the bashing. There is no flow to a thread.
Really? That's on par with mocking someone in school for dressing a certain way.
Yeah, but TSL wears cargo shorts, we can't just let that slide!!!!!
/s
Hey now, there isn't a damn thing wrong with cargo shorts*
*Admittedly this is a battle I've been fighting/losing with both my mom and my girlfriend for quite some time now.
does your GF ever ask you to carry something extra that she can't fit in her purse?
Wear cargo shorts and when she asks take whatever item happily and stow it in one of your cargo pockets. When she gives you crap about wearing cargo pants switch to something with small pockets and when she asks if you can hold something of hers take it and then hand it back after realizing it won't fit in your pockets....too bad you don't have cargo pockets to stow it in anymore :/
I completely disagree with this logic. The second we get out the car she is responsible for carrying the keys. Cant have anything on me but my cell phone.
Uh what? The format doesn't lend itself to in depth conversation or analysis by posters. That's a pretty basic function of a fan site wouldn't you say?
So bashing is necessary because of how they chose to format it? Say you don't like the format and move on. That doesn't mean that there isn't meaningful content there.
The format doesn't lend itself to in depth conversation or analysis by posters
I find this so ironic that you posted this, because more times than not when I see your comments on this site, you tend to have a very strong opinion about something or someone and you don't allow anything to change your stubborn mind. You never allow the in depth conversation or analysis by posters change your mind. Any way have a good weekend!
I can point to many many times I have been wrong. Probably more than I'm right.
tell us how you really feel.
Did someone at TSL shit in your wheaties or something? Both TKP and TSL have their positives and negatives and are great sites, IMHO.
Not too late!
http://247sports.com/Player/Lamont-Wade-61710
Very high profile (top50) guy
Saw a great example of why you shouldn't tweet at recruits yesterday(or maybe a few days ago) between some Michigan fan arguing WITH THIS RECRUIT over whether Michigan was his dream school or not. Rivals Mike got involved to bash the dude, it got out of control and was extremely embarrassing.
Yea not a great look for them. I mean he was already soured on Michigan by the way Harbaugh treated him before apparently. Luckily his VT tweet was met with lots of encouragement by our fans. Hopefully our staffs jumps on this
My money is on Clemson but fingers crossed for the good guys!
EDIT: Picked Clemson
If that graphic of the draft is from VT itself that's a group who is listening. His favorite NFL team is the Chargers.
What are the odds that they'll be the Los Angeles Chargers by 2020?
Depends on how the Rams do, but I'd say better than 50/50.
The Rams will probably have zero to do with it. The residents of SD, like myself, will have some say in November, but I doubt that the stadium initiative will get the 2/3 necessary. Spanos will have the next say whether to take the NFL up on the 1 year offer to move in with the Rams. Unclear how he'll decide, but I doubt the results of the Rams will matter one iota.
You don't think the Chargers will wait to see if the promised stadium etc really take place before they decide?
Which stadium? There is no promise of a new stadium in San Diego. The stadium in Englewood (LA) is currently being built.
Spanos has been asking for a stadium in SD for years. As it currently stands, the NFL has given Spanos a 1 year option to choose to move into the Englewood stadium with the Rams. In the meantime, the residents of San Diego will vote in November whether to build a stadium downtown, next to the convention center. If the vote meets a super-majority (2/3), then a stadium will be built.
The most likely scenario is that the stadium referendum does not pass in SD (nobody wants to pay for the stadium). Then, it's up to Spanos to decide whether to pay crazy rent to move into a predictably empty Rams stadium (at least void of Charger fans), find another city that will build a stadium, or stay in the seemingly fine Qualcomm stadium.
The Rams will really have no sway in the decision. All the Rams know is that they'll either share a stadium with the Chargers, Raiders if Chargers decline, or neither if both Chargers and Raiders decline. If Angelinos had a say (they don't, but if they did), it'll be the Raiders. Angelinos really do not like the Chargers.
I didn't know construction has already started on Champions Stadium.
I can't believe these CUSA coaches whiffed on Jordan Williams !!! Waves cane, angrily
Williams is the most significant loss of the year. VT fan growing up, position of need, extremely engaging personality.
But in Burdens area, Foster and Wiles with position oversight. This loss is more on the staff holdovers than the new regime.
I keep seeing this "he grew up a fan" yet haven't seen an interview where he said that. Not to mention I haven't seen a single time where VT was even on his top 2.
Ok
Do you have links to articles/interviews that say he grew up a fan? While it's a loss I look it as more an indictment of lack of DL going to the NFL as opposed to inability of Tech coaches to Keep an easy "fan" in the fold. That's what your post to some extent and and others I've seen on Twitter imply.
He tweeted that he grew up dreaming of playing football at VT a few years ago when we offered him. Although he could have already cooled on VT by then. His statement didn't imply it was still his dream school. Additionally, it was an uphill battle against Clemson, strong history of putting DE's in the nfl during his life, plus they are a better program right now. It sucks to not get him but I never expected to. I do hope we can get Garbutt back though.
Thats my point it's an uphill battle right now, would love to have every top kid they offer its not going to happen no matter what state they live in.
Exactly. We can't get every recruit. He liked Clemson more. Time to move on.
I'm hopeful that Garbutt still likes VT and commits.
Garbutt and Hunter signing with the Hokies and I'm pretty pumped.
I'm not your google, bro.
I'm not looking for you to do base line research, friend. I'm asking where you heard he was a lifelong Hokie Fan. And I'm asking if you are implying that he should have been an easy get for the coaches.
Here's the tweet everyone is talking about. It's from last april.
Thanks. The way I read that doesn't say he has been a "lifelong fan" he even used a past tense word when describing about playing for Tech. So again I think this comes back to succes or lack thereof for DL out of Tech not some easy to recruit player that the coaches just didn't do anything with.
He probably dreamed about VT when we were dominating the conference. Now it is Clemson and FSU.
I think we'll be back to being contenders under Fuente. He needs to make us much more exciting to watch (he will) and start getting the Ws.
I assume we can report BB recruiting news here also, Raiquan Gray makes his choice tomorrow at 2:00pm. 6'8" big man 2017class who would be a great get added in with NAW, Baylor appears to be main competition. NAW recruiting hard on twitter.
I thought I saw on Twitter somewhere that a Lady Hokie had committed recently, but I couldn't find it again. Women's BB Twitter account hasn't said anything.
Believe he's starting to lean towards FSU.
Florida kid, probably end up being true.
Crossen is going to announce on the 19th. Looks very good for us.
Edit: Anddd all the CBs have flipped to UNC....
He'll go nicely alongside Devon Hunter (please) for a few years.
Hooker is his best friend. Can't let Louisville get a hold of any of Hooker's friends.
Real talk though, look at his other offers, ECU, UL, UNC, and NCST. This is a guy who would be playing against us otherwise. Great to go out and get him.
if he goes to ECU or UNC...sure we'll see him every year he plays
but if he ends up at UL* or NCST we may never see him.
The worst part about what I just typed is that half those teams he could play for but we might not see while he's there are in our conference. Half the teams we play every year, aren't.
*-if he ends up at UL we could possibly see him once.....in 2020
Welcome to the ACC
Oh god...
Can we take a second to talk about the tar heel logo:
Nothing says serious contender like a foot with a smudge on it. Seriously, it looks like a UNC grad was going barefoot and stepped in his degree.
hey, don't make fun of that, Intro to Heel Smudging is one of the hardest courses at UNCheat
Right after How to get a diploma with one-paragraph papers
I read somewhere he was visiting UNC last and/or this weekend.
With all this good news happening, now I get the disappoints when I check TKP and don't hear about another commit, haha.
Oh expectations...
Jordan Stout, a 2017 P/K was offered a preferred walk on. He is from Honaker, Va and his tape looks great.
I'll get a good look at the kid tonight. I tape for my old high schools football team and they are headed over to Honaker to scrimmage.
Update: Just got home from the scrimmage. Kid can flat out kick the football. Didn't see him miss in warmups. Reps from each side of the field from 35+. He drilled a 52 yarder into the wind near the end of the scrimmage. Also, second hand talk was he had been waiting on VT to offer for a while and was really excited about it. Would prefer a scholarship somewhere but I don't know enough about kicking to know if he warrants one. He looks rock solid kicking the ball though. Boomed a 45 yard punt into the wind as well.
Thanks for the report. Kid sounds like a good find.
Devon Hunter will be in town this weekend. I like the sound of "going home to VT." Commence reading too much into a high schooler's tweet in 3...2...1...
I saw that too and immediately got way too excited for no reason. Sounds like it could be good news for us though!
Maybe he is going to Vermont and wants to see how far our alumni network and athletics supporters span?
Yeah, Vermont State University Fighting....Eye Turkeys.....
The bagman needs to make Hunter an offer he can't refuse.
5* 2018 RB Ricky Slade announces VT is included in his top 5:
Ricky is currently rated as the #2 player in VA and the #1 RB in the nation for 2018.
Thank God that says Florida and not Florida state
Please please please do not lose him to PSU
CBs seem to be turning in our favor as well, although not enough to really mean anything significant.
Is this our first look at the Battle At Bristol uniform?
4* DE Joshua Paschal Is hoping to visit Tech soon. Might be able to put some work in. Not much going on for the '17 class but, the '18 class is looking to being better than expected. We have a great start with a lot of good players from what I have read
OT John Harris ('18 recruit) starts at RT for the Mill Creek Hawks in Hoschton GA. This past weekend was opening week for GA HS football and Mill Creek played the team that they lost to in the state semis last year (eventual state champ Colquitt County) and won 34-27. Colquitt County was riding a 30 game win streak and were repeating state champs. Harris played well as the Hawks had a balance of 109 yds rushing and over 300 yds passing.
Recruiting: You're doing it wrong, Michigan.
http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/four-star-recruit-decommi...
8% battery left? I think Michigan may have dodged a bullet there /s
He mentions that his recruiting will continue with his mom in the driver seat.
Confirmed to Tennessee
I just hope TG remembers to say hi to her...
I'm fine with TG ignoring her and ruining any chances Florida has :D
I never thought I'd see the day that tech fans jest Michigan in it's recruiting practices
You also said you never thought you'd see the day I beat you in Super Smash Bros either but that happened.
oooh that's gotta hurt
If it ain't 64 or melee, you ain't real.
Truth, jollyman. I had a discussion about this today with a PSU guy and we kinda came to the following conclusion:
Harbaugh rankles people and does it pretty quickly. Relationship management isn't necessarily his strong suit, but he's a helluva salesman and a helluva coach. When it comes to flipping guys on signing day, he's got to be number 1. But when it comes to building and establishing long-term relationships, he's not the guy I'd want in my corner. So for these recruits that have a year or two left before they sign on the dotted line, Michigan may end up losing a lot of them before gaining a good group on signing day. But they will eventually get a good group, it just depends on who they want and how long they have to maintain a relationship with the recruit before signing them to the team.
VT 4* O-Line Offer
VT offered 4* linemen who decommited from Michigan a day ago. Class of 18
It's Mr. Steal Yo O Line
Is that 3 decommits in one week now? Harbaugh has lost control of Michigan.
If I heard correctly, he recently took a trip to PSU. They sound pretty confident in him
FYI Rivals did a quick think on Malik Willis
https://n.rivals.com/news/analysis-virginia-tech-commit-malik-willis-thr...
No Lambo, 2/10.
Basketball recruiting...but big news none the less 4 Star PG visiting Tech tomorrow.
http://247sports.com/Player/Lindell-Wigginton-85578
Hokies strikeout out on Marcus Minor.
Bout time to offer this kid. Small school kid, not sure academics but FOOTBALL player without a doubt.
http://www.hudl.com/video/3/4182912/57c1416cd21b9e3cc0601960
Any recruits coming to Bristol? Also any reactions to the Liberty game?
No recruits will be coming to Bristol, if they did they would have to pay their way as it is not on campus.
Will look into what recruits said about Liberty.. wouldn't surprise me if there were not many at the game