Yep and that's who I consider good to great each year. 15-25 are decent and rest depending on injuries, tragic events that changed season (Marshall) are meh to bad to horrible.
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just so we're clear here, your criteria for a great team is that they can't have more than half of their wins against FCS or teams with less than a .500 record correct?
i went a head and for comparisons sake:
the 1999 VT Hokies (who some have said were pretty good/the greatest team in school history):
Beat: JMU (FCS), UAB (5-6), Rutgers (1-10), WVU (4-7), Temple (2-9), Pitt (5-6)...plus clemson who finished 6-6, meaning that of their 11 wins, 6 were against FCS or teams less than .500 and a 7th against a .500 team. Does this mean that the 1999 were not a great team?
i only looked at this team but i'm sure this holds true most years for top teams
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Being the best team in a given year, best team at a school is different each year. If every team has 2 losses even the eventual NC then the numbers move. But to just say "that SEC team is good/great, it's just because they play in the SEC they have so many losses" I think is a disservice to the actual good teams out there.
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i agree with you in regards to the "SEC bias" and i believe that perception is actually currently changing, given the last two years or so of results
that being said, you're initial statement was that teams in the sec aren't good because of the criteria
half of your wins don't come from FCS teams or FBS team with losing records.
my point is that using that criteria is flawed because the top teams in the country don't even meet that criteria. because i'm incredibly bored at work i looked up Clemson's schedule/results last year and in the regular season they won 12 games with 6 vs FCS/sub .500 teams last year plus a 7th vs a nc state(7-5) who padded their schedule to qualify for a bowl game. i think we can all agree they were one of the top two teams last year.
if you want to pound that "SEC is overrated drum" go for it, i'm right there with you, but the criteria presented is flawed
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I disagree but that's what makes TKP so great. I don't think Clemson beating Troy and South Carolina State means they are a great team. They might be a top team this year but if you don't play anyone a don't think you are "great".
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All this shit talk about other teams and conferences. I'd love to hear what you have to say about our ACC winning 2007 or 2010 squads, some of our best teams, who truly embarrassed themselves OOC.
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This whole thing started because you called Ole Miss a nobody team. They are clearly an above average SEC team. Which, despite all the whining about, has been the best conference for 15 years.
Are they a great team? No. But after a coming off a top 10 rank Sugar bowl beat down season they're pretty damn good and clearly aren't nobodies. No amount of SEC complaining would make that true.
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UNC who lost to SCar and got blitzkrieged to the tune of 650+ rushing yards by Baylor was a "good' team, but Baylor isn't a "good" team? and "maybe" Ole Miss who thumpstomped Oklahoma State. This list is thoroughly confusing.
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UNC whose run defense was ranked 121st last year? I'll give it to you. You're a dual threat qb. When you feel pressure, you roll out, spread the field, and make them honor the run.
Just cobbing ya man, it's all in good fun, but now that you've gone off the reservation, I'm outta this one.
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What results over the last two years has made the SEC look bad outside of this one bad first week? (where they played twice as many or more P5 teams than any other conference)
I think the perception can change but it will take time and more than one bad opening week where they go .500.
They still have 9 of the last 11 NC's and a winning record against every P5 conference since 2000, sooooooo.
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at no point did i say they look bad, i said the perception is changing, and overall i think that they're the best conference... but i think it's starting to move from "they're the SEC, they are head and shoulders better than everyone" to currently "the sec is the best conference, but the others are closing the gap". The record vs other P5 schools proves that. as for national titles, my view is that a)the bcs was a flawed system b) that doesn't necessarily speak to overall conference strength
i think it will be interesting to look back after the first 5-7 years of the playoffs (when there is more data) and see champions and number of teams selected for the playoffs (and i think it's possible the ACC gets two teams this year FWIW)
EDIT/in addition: I think there's an argument to be made for the SEC east being overrated (without having looked at specific numbers)
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East certainly the weaker division but in any given year Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee alone are probably more talented than most other conference divisions, a few years ago SCar was winning eleven games every year and beat Clemson 5 straight times, all 5 of which were against a Dabo coached Clemson.
I agree it's moving away from the SEC's dominance, and I think the playoffs will maybe show that given that other top teams from other conferences are emerging with FSU and Clemson's resurgence in the last 5ish years along with some other strong teams from other conferences. I think SEC will probably remain the best conference but the margin will be greatly lowered, especially if we get back to winning form and Miami elevates as well.
I think the BCS was a flawed system as well, but I do think the champion was correct most years. The only teams who ever really had an argument that they might have been the best were some of those USC teams, but each one of those teams had a head scratching loss against a bad team like Oregon State or the like. Even in 2011, where people were upset about the SEC rematch, go look at that year and Alabama's schedule and it's not a hard sell that they were the best team in the country.
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One loss in an entire season especially now with a playoff doesn't really sway me one way or the other. In fact I expect from here on out most NC will have a loss.
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I assume we are talking about Ohio State correct? Then yes I think that team was great, especially with the depth they had. But losing one game doesn't take away being great vs good vs average vs bad for me. I don't consider every team in the top 25 at the end of the year to be great teams, just like every years prior to the BCS the NC to be great.
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Your argument was that the SEC was weak because only the top two teams were any good, I just pointed out that a team that didn't finish in the top two in the SEC beat the national champs. It's week one, what are you going on if you are excluding last year from your reasoning? The fact that they lost to the #3 team in the country in a close game while not even being considered in the top 3 of their own conference? If anything you're providing your own counter argument. A nobody from the SEC took the #3 team in the country to the wire.
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But in all fairness, we beat Ohio State the year they won the first playoff. We finished 5th in our division, which would have been around 10th in the conference, and the ACC wasn't heralded by any stretch.
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And that is my point exactly. Even the best teams drop one every now and then and that was a dang good Ohio State team in my opinion. I became a fan of y'all that day by the way. I hate Ohio State and Urban Meyer about as much ( despite my hatred of him he is an above average coach). There's really no dislike from me for this game Saturday.
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Alabama is going to run roughshod over the rest of that conference this year. They do seem to be that good, but I see no other serious competition for them given what we saw over the weekend.
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I'm making no argument for UT here, we'll see how our teams compare this Saturday, but I don't place a lot of faith in early games or preseason rankings. We've seen world beaters fall off and scrubs steadily improve every year. Bout mid season things will start straightening themselves out.
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So you're saying out of UGA, A&M, Florida, UT, LSU, Ole Miss MAYBE one of them is good? Your bar for good is way too high if no conference has 3 good teams.
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Maybe, but I really think your comments have made it quite obvious you have a very strong dislike for the SEC that may be skewing your perspective a little.
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What skews it is that my bar for being a "great" team is high, my bar for being really good, good, average and bad are high. Most teams for me are average or bad in any given year.
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If I had the time, I feel like it wouldn't be too difficult to put together a web scraper to pull down data from either the ESPN box scores for each game that week, or one of the CFB stats sites.
Actually, for the sake of LOLUVA - I might make the time to do this sometime this week or weekend. Stay tuned...
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Comments
They're forgetting his three extra points, which brings him up to 21.
So, you can add Tennessee to that list. (Or you could add them if you only include regulation.)
And UVA
ESPN has never been known for letting facts get in the way of a good story, especially those involving complex maths, like counting.
To be fair he was kicking against a nobody team.
I don't get the /s in this one
There isn't one, I think Ole Miss loses 3 more games.
Yeah but last I checked an 8-4 SEC team is far from a nobody
Maybe it's time that perception and benefit changes. SEC has maybe 2 good teams this year, maybe.
what's your definition of good...?
also any 8-4 is far from a nobody
Where over half of your wins don't come from FCS teams or FBS team with losing records.
That would be us over the past 4 years
Yep.
that's everyone except for probably the top 10-12 in college football
Yep and that's who I consider good to great each year. 15-25 are decent and rest depending on injuries, tragic events that changed season (Marshall) are meh to bad to horrible.
That means that VT hasn't been anything other than decent besides a handful of times.
We've finished in the top 15 of the AP poll 9 times...the Coaches poll 11 times. So yeah, that fits.
just so we're clear here, your criteria for a great team is that they can't have more than half of their wins against FCS or teams with less than a .500 record correct?
i went a head and for comparisons sake:
the 1999 VT Hokies (who some have said were pretty good/the greatest team in school history):
Beat: JMU (FCS), UAB (5-6), Rutgers (1-10), WVU (4-7), Temple (2-9), Pitt (5-6)...plus clemson who finished 6-6, meaning that of their 11 wins, 6 were against FCS or teams less than .500 and a 7th against a .500 team. Does this mean that the 1999 were not a great team?
i only looked at this team but i'm sure this holds true most years for top teams
Being the best team in a given year, best team at a school is different each year. If every team has 2 losses even the eventual NC then the numbers move. But to just say "that SEC team is good/great, it's just because they play in the SEC they have so many losses" I think is a disservice to the actual good teams out there.
i agree with you in regards to the "SEC bias" and i believe that perception is actually currently changing, given the last two years or so of results
that being said, you're initial statement was that teams in the sec aren't good because of the criteria
my point is that using that criteria is flawed because the top teams in the country don't even meet that criteria. because i'm incredibly bored at work i looked up Clemson's schedule/results last year and in the regular season they won 12 games with 6 vs FCS/sub .500 teams last year plus a 7th vs a nc state(7-5) who padded their schedule to qualify for a bowl game. i think we can all agree they were one of the top two teams last year.
if you want to pound that "SEC is overrated drum" go for it, i'm right there with you, but the criteria presented is flawed
I disagree but that's what makes TKP so great. I don't think Clemson beating Troy and South Carolina State means they are a great team. They might be a top team this year but if you don't play anyone a don't think you are "great".
All this shit talk about other teams and conferences. I'd love to hear what you have to say about our ACC winning 2007 or 2010 squads, some of our best teams, who truly embarrassed themselves OOC.
good teams. But when you look at who they beat and didn't beat can you say they were among the great teams in college football that year.
Part of this is I don't think there are a lot of great teams in any given year or in total of college football. Great to me means way above the rest.
This whole thing started because you called Ole Miss a nobody team. They are clearly an above average SEC team. Which, despite all the whining about, has been the best conference for 15 years.
Are they a great team? No. But after a coming off a top 10 rank Sugar bowl beat down season they're pretty damn good and clearly aren't nobodies. No amount of SEC complaining would make that true.
First I think they are an average SEC team, and being an average SEC team makes you this year not that great. Was
the Right word, probably not. But Ole Miss isn't a great team and no amount of,
is going to change that. I don't care if they beat OKST last year. They also were dismantled by FL and Memphis.
I literally said they aren't a great team. Your point can't be that they aren't a great team. Read slower.
Fine they aren't a
Either when the season ends.
just out of curiosity, who do you think was a great team last year?
Great: Bama, really good: Ok, Clemson, good: anOSU, Stanford at the end of the season, Houston
So not even 7 teams a year are good? Ok I see where the problem is
That's off top of my head, now that I've taken a quick look at records etc I'd add FSU, OSU, MSU maybe Ole Miss and UNC. Edit: Baylor good.
UNC who lost to SCar and got blitzkrieged to the tune of 650+ rushing yards by Baylor was a "good' team, but Baylor isn't a "good" team? and "maybe" Ole Miss who thumpstomped Oklahoma State. This list is thoroughly confusing.
Forgot about Baylor yea they were good last year.
UNC whose run defense was ranked 121st last year? I'll give it to you. You're a dual threat qb. When you feel pressure, you roll out, spread the field, and make them honor the run.
Just cobbing ya man, it's all in good fun, but now that you've gone off the reservation, I'm outta this one.
What results over the last two years has made the SEC look bad outside of this one bad first week? (where they played twice as many or more P5 teams than any other conference)
I think the perception can change but it will take time and more than one bad opening week where they go .500.
They still have 9 of the last 11 NC's and a winning record against every P5 conference since 2000, sooooooo.
at no point did i say they look bad, i said the perception is changing, and overall i think that they're the best conference... but i think it's starting to move from "they're the SEC, they are head and shoulders better than everyone" to currently "the sec is the best conference, but the others are closing the gap". The record vs other P5 schools proves that. as for national titles, my view is that a)the bcs was a flawed system b) that doesn't necessarily speak to overall conference strength
i think it will be interesting to look back after the first 5-7 years of the playoffs (when there is more data) and see champions and number of teams selected for the playoffs (and i think it's possible the ACC gets two teams this year FWIW)
EDIT/in addition: I think there's an argument to be made for the SEC east being overrated (without having looked at specific numbers)
East certainly the weaker division but in any given year Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee alone are probably more talented than most other conference divisions, a few years ago SCar was winning eleven games every year and beat Clemson 5 straight times, all 5 of which were against a Dabo coached Clemson.
I agree it's moving away from the SEC's dominance, and I think the playoffs will maybe show that given that other top teams from other conferences are emerging with FSU and Clemson's resurgence in the last 5ish years along with some other strong teams from other conferences. I think SEC will probably remain the best conference but the margin will be greatly lowered, especially if we get back to winning form and Miami elevates as well.
I think the BCS was a flawed system as well, but I do think the champion was correct most years. The only teams who ever really had an argument that they might have been the best were some of those USC teams, but each one of those teams had a head scratching loss against a bad team like Oregon State or the like. Even in 2011, where people were upset about the SEC rematch, go look at that year and Alabama's schedule and it's not a hard sell that they were the best team in the country.
But another point is that nobody team, Ole Miss, beat the national champs, Alabama, the last two years.
It's college football year to year results mean almost nothing. Not to mention Ole Miss lost to an AAC team last year.
The national champion two years ago lost to a nobody team, but tell me that team wasn't great
One loss in an entire season especially now with a playoff doesn't really sway me one way or the other. In fact I expect from here on out most NC will have a loss.
Doesn't really answer the question but ok
I assume we are talking about Ohio State correct? Then yes I think that team was great, especially with the depth they had. But losing one game doesn't take away being great vs good vs average vs bad for me. I don't consider every team in the top 25 at the end of the year to be great teams, just like every years prior to the BCS the NC to be great.
Your argument was that the SEC was weak because only the top two teams were any good, I just pointed out that a team that didn't finish in the top two in the SEC beat the national champs. It's week one, what are you going on if you are excluding last year from your reasoning? The fact that they lost to the #3 team in the country in a close game while not even being considered in the top 3 of their own conference? If anything you're providing your own counter argument. A nobody from the SEC took the #3 team in the country to the wire.
Did you watch the game? It wasn't down to the wire. Ole Miss blew their entire load before halftime.
I see your point, makes sense.
But in all fairness, we beat Ohio State the year they won the first playoff. We finished 5th in our division, which would have been around 10th in the conference, and the ACC wasn't heralded by any stretch.
And that is my point exactly. Even the best teams drop one every now and then and that was a dang good Ohio State team in my opinion. I became a fan of y'all that day by the way. I hate Ohio State and Urban Meyer about as much ( despite my hatred of him he is an above average coach). There's really no dislike from me for this game Saturday.
Alabama is going to run roughshod over the rest of that conference this year. They do seem to be that good, but I see no other serious competition for them given what we saw over the weekend.
I'm making no argument for UT here, we'll see how our teams compare this Saturday, but I don't place a lot of faith in early games or preseason rankings. We've seen world beaters fall off and scrubs steadily improve every year. Bout mid season things will start straightening themselves out.
So you're saying out of UGA, A&M, Florida, UT, LSU, Ole Miss MAYBE one of them is good? Your bar for good is way too high if no conference has 3 good teams.
SEC will end up if projections going forward with one great team, Bama, and maybe two good teams.
Maybe, but I really think your comments have made it quite obvious you have a very strong dislike for the SEC that may be skewing your perspective a little.
What skews it is that my bar for being a "great" team is high, my bar for being really good, good, average and bad are high. Most teams for me are average or bad in any given year.
When the kicker has his own Evan's style post-scoring celebration, you know he is in the zone
Is he injecting heroin? Is that the celebration?
Come on man, it's the D'Angelo Russell "ice in my veins" celebration. It's an overall great look /s
Nope. Ima go with heroin
Yeah this also looks like heroin to me
He also had more points than Clemson. These stats are truly bizarre sometimes. FSU may have found their Fuller family of kickers with the Aguayo's.
PAAWWLLLLLL.....
They messed it up-
"FSU K Ricky Agualo... More Points than 5
SEC TeamsFans At UVA Spring Game."I'm really considering a weekly feature...who did the FSU kicker outscore.
And for the 7th straight week, once again it's loluva!!!!!
Could we also do, which kicker outscored LOLuva this week?
Nobody had that kinda time. Maybe if we limit it to P5 extra points. Unless you see someone on LOluva's schedule you'd pick to lose to Richmond?
If I had the time, I feel like it wouldn't be too difficult to put together a web scraper to pull down data from either the ESPN box scores for each game that week, or one of the CFB stats sites.
Actually, for the sake of LOLUVA - I might make the time to do this sometime this week or weekend. Stay tuned...
Okay, I did it...all of the teams that the FSU kicker outscored: http://cfarena.blogspot.com/2016/09/who-did-fsu-kicker-outscore-week-1.html
The SEC is the most represented conference.
Week 2 wasn't as fun, because he only got 10 points: http://cfarena.blogspot.com/2016/09/who-did-fsu-kicker-outscore-week-1_1...
But UMass and Iowa State show up on both lists.
This game is getting less fun, with only 8 points this week: http://cfarena.blogspot.com/2016/09/who-did-fsu-kicker-outscore-in-week-...
But hey, he would have beat BC by himself!
And with a little help from a safety, could have put LOLUva into OT...