35-0. Fourth and 15 at Tech's 32 yd line and they're going for it. False start and now it's fourth and 20 and they decide to punt. What?? You're down 35 zip and you punt? What difference did 5 yds make at that point?
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It was never the kids who were the problems. They were generally the bright spots in the offense. They tended to get hurt (Edmunds, McKenzie, Williams) or stagnate (McLaughlin, who looks better to my untrained eye this year).
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Im imagining Bud at some point tonight sat back in his office, kicked his feet up on his desk and tossing a football in the air to himself...just grinning.
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Oh, I think Loeffler knew what he needed to do, but then he had to keep tinkering and getting cute with the offense. He just keeps outsmarting himself.
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Mason is focusing on more important real-life stuff. He has an open invitation from me to publish any thoughts on Virginia Tech football if has the free time and desire to do so.
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Good to know. Thanks Joe. I always really enjoyed Mason's stuff, and he was engaged and passionate in the comments without being a dick. Hope all is well with him.
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One: I like Loeffler, but I don't see how his scheme can make it at the college level without some major buy-in from a school willing to suck for a long time first.
Two: If this is Fu's offense with no fumbles, I am absolutely salivating over Fu's offense with no fumbles and 5 or 6 games worth of execution under everyone's belts.
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That second part cannot be said enough. We made it look easy against a legitimate good defense today. We didn't need home run shots, we didn't need trick plays, we just lined up and marched the ball all over the field on them and they couldn't stop us. And then we put our second string in and they marched right down the field, too. Boston College could not stop us, and they were a legitimate Top 5 defense last year.
This was the third game this team has played under this regime. Imagine how good this team can be with a year of experience under their belts. Imagine this team with a QB who has spent 2+ years learning our system. And then realize we play in the Coastal.
We might break 100 against the Hoos this year.
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Hey now. Yes, that will probably make most men do about anything and woman have been using it for years to get what they want, but this need a "nsfw" warning. You could get some people in trouble here.
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Yep, a lot of our struggles with ECU have been
On offense. We scored 28 last year, to an ECU D who gave up 31 to UFs terrible O, 45 to Navy, 23 to SMU, and 45 to BYu.
The year before, 21 but it took two Miraculous catches by Ford. The year before: 15. 2012: 17. Tyrod lit them up in the 4th QTR in 2010 when we scored 40-something.
Let buds D do their work, we will win 41-17.
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I tried to warn guys that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to hire Loeffler coming off a historically bad offense at Auburn. It seems that BC didn't learn from our mistake.
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When we hired Lefty, I looked him up on Wikipedia. At the time, there was something about QBs that he's coached had gotten a combined 5 Super Bowl rings. (The text has since been changed.)
So, Iooked it up. Tom Brady had 3 rings at the time. Brian Griese got a Super Bowl ring by carrying a clipboard for John Elway. I don't even remember who had the fifth ring, but it wasn't by virtue of playing in the game.
Tom Brady doesn't even count on that list, because Lefty was just a grad assistant.
The text now just reflects players that he has coached:
Loeffler has served as position coach for a number of prominent players over his career. Loeffler was the college quarterbacks coach to future NFL Draft picks Tom Brady, Tim Tebow, Brian Griese, Chad Henne, Drew Henson, John Navarre, and Logan Thomas. The players have started over 300 regular-season NFL games.
Again, Brady doesn't count, and of the rest . . . well, let's just say that Brady and Griese alone gets you over 300, and the rest might add up to a season's worth of starts.
Ultimately, I think the "guru" part comes from this (emphasis mine):
Loeffler was hired by Urban Meyer to join his staff at Florida. Loeffler served as quarterbacks coach, where in his first season he was tasked with helping Tim Tebow become a more polished pro-style quarterback. Tebow finished the season ranked 1st in passer efficiency.
Um.............
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As long as we never play a game that reminds me of '02 Syracuse. A game that still gets mentioned in random games when we play (today on the radio) and when Syracuse plays (on tv vs Louisville last week). That game will not die
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I was at a fundraiser tonight and was talking with a big time ECU fan. Needless to say his uncomfortableness was visible after a quick score check. It's a different story with Fu at the helm.
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I hope to everything that is holy that this isn't a one hit wonder. I am happy for the team and especially Bud. You know he was fully dippped halfway through the 3 rd!
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Yeah we destroyed BC and lefty didn't do anything against bud today, but he went to BC they has worse talent than Tech did... Of course we were going to stifle them.
If anything, we should be thanking him for saving us offensively for getting Ford, Cam, and switching Bucky to TE.
I enjoy the victory, but I take no joy in rubbing his nose in the dirt. He helped upgrade us when we desperately needed it. We should not hate him for his time here.
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Lefty inherits the angst and schadenfreude that is rightly reserved for Stiney. It is what it is. We will never get the chance to vent our frustrations against Stiney, because he will never be an OC for an FBS program again.
There is no denying, we were a better program after Lefty than before. But this fanbase has a LOT of pent up rage that dates back to the early years of Stiney's OC career. We needed to vent that. Lefty is the scapegoat.
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Then shame on us for bringing out the pitch forks and burning a man on the stake that actually saved us. We don't need to become like the sec fan base. What you said is a poor excuse and we shouldn't use that to justify hating on the man.
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You can scream into the wind all you want, and it won't change the prevailing sentiment. Lefty promised to make changes to our history of offensive ineptitude, and for the most part he failed to deliver. He was the Seth Greenberg of OCs, delivering good performances in our biggest games and duds in most everything else. But he did restock the cupboards by selling his vision, and that had left Fuente all the pieces to work with. I don't hold any animosity toward Lefty and hope that one day he simplifies his scheme enough to work at the FBS level. However, he was far from the man who "saved us." The men who saved this program are Frank Beamer for knowing when it was time to retire, and Whit Babcock for bringing in Fuente.
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Yes Whit did a solid hire, but Frank really should've retired a few years ago, so he's hardly a savior in that respect. Because Frank didn't know when to hang it up, Lefty did the best he absolutely could with the shoddy pieces we initially had. So yes I think Lefty did save us - without him we'd probably have been below 500 easily with O'Cain and company still recruiting and providing offense as they did.
I guess i'm not sure where your anger lies - the fact that Lefty didn't do more with what little he had (which in my count isn't fair) or the fact that Beamer didn't hire someone other than Lefty that's more to your liking? Considering the fire dump he had inherited, I don't blame Lefty for anything, and certainly not this charge or overselling and under performing.
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It's fairly obvious Frank realized too late that he had to field a competent offense to be competitive in the modern game, and didn't understand enough about modern offenses to know who he should hire. Loeffler knows football inside and out and sold Frank on his vision in the same way he sold recruits. Results failed to materialize, and after three mediocre seasons, Frank hung it up. Did he stay too long? Perhaps. But he also bowed out graciously, preserving his legacy and allowing us to revere him despite his decline in his last years. After the ignominious ends to the careers of legends like Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno, that was a refreshing change of pace. Frank loved VT football enough to walk away from it before he damaged the brand and fostered animosity from the fanbase. He didn't retire a moment too early, but he didn't hang on too long out of pride, ego or spite.
Lefty did what he could, limited at first by bare cupboards, then by his own overthinking. When his scheme worked, it was beautiful. But it required too many things to go right for it to work. Perhaps a place like BC will be the right environment for him to find success, as the lack of blue chip talent will probably force him to simplify his scheme. I wish him well in every game he coaches except when it's against us.
My anger doesn't lie anywhere. I don't take the glee in watching Lefty fail that others have seemed to. I said as much in the open thread. But I understand the psychology of those who are taking pleasure in the dismantling of Lefty's offense. For years, honestly for over a decade, it was the lack of an offense that prevented VT from winning a national championship. Dismantling our old OC represented symbolically turning the page on years of the offense failing to hold up its end of the bargain. And although that frustration would be better targeted at Stinespring, O'Cain, or even Beamer himself for holding on to outdated offensive philosophy, Lefty presented an easy target, and lots of Hokies fans took aim.
To paraphrase Chris Rock, I'm not saying it's right, but I understand.
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I think there is a big difference in "taking pleasure in the dismantling of Lefty's offense" and blatantly laughing at him personally and hoping for his future failure. (not saying you specifically are) And to be honest I don't understand it, Chris.
What Lefty promised to VT or didn't promise is irrelevant. What Lefty accomplished or didn't accomplish is also irrelevant. Ultimately he was selected and hired by Frank Beamer. Despite the inability to reinvigorate our offense he produced one of VT's highest profile wins EVER. Despite not have much success at QB he coached and called a team that was in the gutters of rebuilding, kept them bowling along the way and restocked the QB, WR and TE coffers.
But most importantly, this guy was a Hokie. He respected the program. He worked his ass off day and night while having a new born watching tape, sleeping in the office, etc for this program. No matter his ability or inability at producing an effective offense or calling a good game, that should demand some measure of mutual respect.
I agree with the ire towards Stinespring, and I agree with the ire at O'Cain, because they were the instruments of destruction. But I only agree with that ire in the sense that they needed to be replaced or removed from the position they were in. Not that their failures wherever they ended up following VT should be a point of prideful ridicule. Fuente is coming into VT under different circumstance than Lefty did. No, I don't believe Lefty would produce a 49-0 against BC with VT as Fuente just did. But he slogged through the years the program was at it's lowest in 2 decades and kept us over 50%.
Much like a player such as Trey Edmunds transferring to Maryland. He was productive here but became overshadowed and decided to leave. That guy is still a Hokie to me, he wasn't the next great RB for us, but he put in the work for me to respect that he had to make the decision he did. I support that and I support his success at a program I very much despise. I still want to see the Hokie defense shut him down for negative yards, but if/when that happens, I'm not going to laugh at the guy and pour salt on the wound.
That has to apply to Lefty as well.
Beyond that we here on TKP are always talking about how we are some of the classiest fans around. We shame other Hokies that display crassness. And outright troll fans from less savory programs constantly. Aren't we better than assigning Lefty the same "lol" preface that we give to the one school we will, no matter the circumstance, want to kick in the teeth? I think we are.
Lets be gracious in our win and shake the man's hand, wish him well for the rest of the season and go about our business.
Especially since he was for a time, one of us.
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The advanced metrics recognize that VT in 2015 played Purdue and Tulsa, two completely inept defenses and got 22 more points from 5 overtimes (4OT vs Duke, 1 OT vs NC). Without those overtime possessions and worthless defenses VT's raw stats would look just like his previous two efforts. No one views him as a savior because he took a bad offense and made it worse. Most saviors don't demonstrate their genius by burning their village to the ground.
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It's could'ves/would'ves - you hate a man that couldn't miraculously turn us around on a dime and take us from 103rd in O to top-10? You're really going to be disappointed in life then. The only reason we progressed as well as we did and not further past 100 is because of him and his ability to recruit players. Doesn't matter who else we could've hired.
Look at the dumpster fire Fuente inherited at Memphis before he got his own players. They were 112 and 119 the first two years he was there before he started to turn his ship around. Doesn't matter if we had Chip Kelly as our O coordinator instead of Lefty - he still didn't have the horses to work with.
You could argue that he should've done better his last two years here and that his scheme might be too complex for CFB, and perhaps I'd agree, but I think he was progressing in the right direction and didn't leave us in a worse place than when he left. For that I thank him.
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Frankly I think people (including myself) just think that Loeffler is a bad offensive coordinator, and was from the time we hired him (as evidenced by the talk coming out of Auburn at the time). However 'we' got shouted down over and over again that he just needed more time, that he would surely do better this year, that the job was too big. Now we want an opportunity to point out that he is, in fact, a bad offensive coordinator, and you're probably not going to change many of our minds about that.
I get what you're saying, we didn't have a Mike Vick on the roster when he got here. But yeah, I think a Chip Kelly or Justin Fuente could have done more than Loeffler did in his time here. Way more.
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1) I don't hate Loeffler the person. I have no opinion of him as a person. I hated his play-calling and job performance at VT.
2) Nowhere did I say I expected top 10 performances. No one ever expected that from him. He was brought in to make the offense and he utterly failed. Other coaches have had more success at worse spots.
3) He recruited Andrew Ford, Michael Brewer and Chris Durkin. He inherited Bucky. Shane recruited McLaughlin. Ford and Phillips were recruited by Moorehead. He didn't recruit any of the RB Hydra he and Shane mismanaged/broke during his tenure. Who am I missing?
Loeffler's gone. There's no need to be an apologist for him anymore and pretend the awful stats and performances don't exist/don't count because mumble mumble reasons. He ran the offense deeper into the ditch it was in.
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2) Nowhere did I say I expected top 10 performances. No one ever expected that from him. He was brought in to make the offense and he utterly failed. Other coaches have had more success at worse spots.
I'm not even sure what you're stating here - "he was brought in to make the offense and he utterly failed"; you're essentially making my point. You can't bake a cake without the right ingredients, and he certainly didn't have it. Again you can talk to him perhaps having too complicated a system for CFB and I might agree with you, but he certainly for sure he didn't run the offense "deeper in the ditch it was in".
Also, Bucky was a TE. And as soon as Lefty was brought in he instantly knew that he was not QB material and moved him to TE/WR. Us having a dearth of talent forced him to get Brewer, Durkin, and Ford. You can thank him for seeing we didn't have the horses and bring in new talent. Re: specific guys - it was him who helped organize and increase recruiting which led to people wanting to come and play for us. You think Moorehead was the reason Ford wanted to play at Tech? Please. Same with Cam.
No one's being an apologist, I just know i'm rationale enough to understand the position we were in and how bad off the previous regime had left us. If you're expecting him to make wine out of water then of course you're going to be disappointed. And lest you forget he actually increased offensive production while he was here save one year. No need to blindly rage at him.
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That was supposed to be "make the offense better". Forgot a word. He was brought in as a QB whisperer who could fix Logan Thomas because he helped coach Tom Brady. He didn't do that. The offense continued on its same downward descent. The advanced metrics that take opponent quality into account are pretty clear that the on-field product did not improve while Loeffler was here. The facts are what they are.
Do I think Ford and Phillips were swayed to VT because Moorehead's a good recruiter? Yes. Though I suppose if you want to argue they were lured here by Loeffler's offensive scheme of bubble screens and jet sweeps you can. I'm sure his recruiting prowess means Saban will hire Loeffler this offseason when Loeffler's out of a job and Kiffin takes a head coaching gig somewhere.
There's no blind rage here. He was terrible at calling plays and coming up with a coherent offensive attack. I'm glad he's gone. I never expected him to make water out of wine. I expected competence and didn't get it unless it was 2015 and they were playing a ridiculously awful defense.
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There's no way he could fix Logan in one year. He's also stated multiple times that if he had Logan for more than one year he could've done wonders. Even if I did agree he failed miserably with Logan (which I don't), yes he is an excellent QB coach and his past record talks to it.
The facts are what they are after you removed certain games / other qualifiers from your previous post but ok - whatever floats your boat. And ironically, if you've followed TKP or TSL writers, the same jet sweeps and screens that you're against is exactly what we're doing right now and what Fuente plans on doing. Nothing too different on that front - most likely the multiple looks and assignments associated with them that made our minds wrap up our feet on the field.
I'm obviously not going to change your mind but you're selling him short if you think he came here and left the program a lot worse than what he inherited. He's the impetus and reason why we're doing much better (so far) this season on O.
Lastly - we did have some games that we just steamrolled the other team on O, a la Miami in 2012 I think. But I guess we can forget about that, right?
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Haven't read the whole the thread, but I'm not sure anyone has said Lefty didn't leave us in a better spot than when he arrived. People are saying he's not a good Offensive Coordinator. Which is 100% fair. His scheme is far too complicated for college offenses. He put together some good game plans along the way but his consistency as a coordinator does not work in his favor. Comparing Fuente and Lefty on play calling isn't really fair. There's a reason Lefty's screen and jets didn't work and Fuente and Cornelson's do work. There is a reason he is at BC where offense is optional. I have nothing against the guy, but he wasn't a good fit at Offensive Coordinator and he remains that way. Would probably be fine as a QB coach somewhere.
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That's fine, but to destroy him in a thread isn't warranted. I (and many others from what I can tell) are of the opinion he did more good than harm in his time here, so I wanted to point that out.
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I have very little anger towards Stiney. He wasn't an elite OC or even a good one but he was also hampered by the big man quite a bit. Having a head coach who was aiming for 30 points at best with a 2-1 advantage in TOP doesn't really inspire an exciting offense. Stinespring bled orange and maroon while he was here and worked his ass off to try to field a good unit. I feel your pain for sure but I have a lot of respect for what that guy attempted to do here.
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I fully concur. I think CFB just put a bag on the offense at certain times during the game. It mattered not who the OC was. How many times in the Red Zone did we run and run and run and run. Very predictable.
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I don't know if I should be excited that we have such a high profile former coach as a member of the Key Players' Club or if I should be worried that now I know for a fact Stiney has read all my criticism of him on TKP.
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if I'm ever in the same room with you and Stiney, I'm gonna introduce you as "the guy who founded the Fire Bryan Stinespring blog" and then just sit back and be like:
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Man, some of y'all are too sensitive. The man failed, got canned, and goose-egged against his former team. That is funny and jokes must be told. As long as no-one gets personal, it's all in good fun, and honestly, therapeutic for a fanbase that had to live through some of the worst offensive performances in our history.
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I think Fuente and Cornelson identify the mistakes and clean them up quickly, they also admit that certain things like at at wide receiver isn't that good right now.
Lefty on the hand never admitted anything and the mistakes would continue throughout the season. I think there is a certain football mind and thought process that is different with fuente/cornelson
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I'm sure that Lefty stated that we're lacking in depth. He's talked to the fact that he hated playing Ford so many snaps per game as he did, but considering we had Deon Newsome (now a DB) and other ppl that really didn' t make an impact at all - what choice did he have?
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I use to argue Loeffler was a net positive for Tech. No more. However, I agree with the poster a few up, we can relish a sound victory and newfound offensive success without kicking dirt in anyone's face.
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Three full quarters to gain 100 yds. Great defense and a horrible BC offense. Hope l never have to watch another Loffler offense again , but was happy that he was able to see what a real offense looks like. The great defense was not BC
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I totally agree with you. In fact I'm a bit disappointed to see some of the replies in this thread. I'm as happy as the next Hokie to finally see us having some success on offense, but I don't think there can be any question that Loeffler gave us his all while he was here. Was he as successful as we wanted him to be? Of course not. But we can be happy and hopeful for the future without gloating or rubbing anyone's face in their failures. Leave that for the other boards.
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Nah. He brought this on himself. Every time his ridiculously overcomplicated offense failed he blamed the players for not executing. I think the tipping point for me was when he completely neglected to prepare Leal as a backup, then blamed Leal for not being prepared. Then the exact same thing happened when Brewer got hurt. He never owned his mistakes and was too proud to learn from them, to the team's detriment. He deserves what he gets here.
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This is fair. I don't Loeffler is as terrible an offensive coordinator as he is made out to be, that includes jokes from TKP. He did a very good job stocking the cupboard during his tenure at Tech. His ultimate downfall was over-complicating the Hokies' offense to the point of ineffectiveness.
I couldn't help but notice Boston College's struggles on offense being very similar to Tech's over the last 3 years. It was a little bit 'Haha, he's your problem now', but more remembering what a mess things at Tech had been and laughing at the situation.
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Exactly. Let's not pretend for a moment that without high quality mobile QBs with the ability to improvise, we ever would have become the contenders we learned to expect to be.
Ricky Bustle was decent at working with what he had. IMO, Stiney and Loeffler were very similar in terms of game-day play-calling: dependent far too much on their idea of what should work, instead of what actually was working on that day. As such, while their playbooks were much larger than Bustle's, they were much worse on calling the actual plays for a consistent offensive performance.
The only coach I thought we had, briefly, that was worth the title was Kevin Rogers, and while I don't know if we could have kept him for long anyway, it is a shame that wasn't recognized at the time by Frank Beamer.
Now we have Fu and Corny, and it was unbelievably gratifying to see plays that they found were working called over and over again. Granted, the scheme allowed that to occur because a whole lot of things were working out of the same sets, but this was true for Loeffler as well -- receivers were often open, but the read progression depended on more than most College offensive lines could give, much less Virginia Tech's.
The turnaround in my mind truly started with Coach Grimes resetting the expectations and mentality of Offensive Line play, and was cemented with Searels' continuation of that passion and coaching acumen.
Without the changes in offensive philosophy that started way too late IMO, coach Fu would have had far less to work with, and this year would would likely be chalked up as a probable breaking of the bowl streak.
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His system appears to be too complicated for college, and would probably work well in the NFL with more experienced players who have more games and more practice time.
However, he's probably not going to have enough success at the college level to get the call from the NFL.
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Maybe his system is more suited for the NFL but it's a little far to assume he'd be successful there for my tastes. As others have pointed out, his biggest weaknesses seemed to be focusing almost solely on creating advantageous matchups and failing to recognize or call the plays that the team could execute that a defense struggled against. I have my doubts that those weaknesses wouldn't cause serious problems in the NFL as well.
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Lefty resurrected some O talent and at least implemented a system as opposed to the monkey humping O we had with Stiney. To me his biggest downfall is his lack of ability or refusal to adjust. A lot of the plays Fuente ran existed in some form in our playbook last year. Use of personnel and play call sequencing are the biggest differences.
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We are a lot better on O due to the recruiting and coaching efforts of Lefty and his crew. I agree that Lefty had issues at times with his play calling but he did help to upgrade our talent. I don't understand all the hating on Lefty. He inherited a train wreck when he got to Tech and now has the same but worse situation at BC. Don't get me wrong, I love the new coaches and think we got a home run with the Fuente hire but let's give Scott a little credit. As good as Fuente and crew are I don't think he would have done much on O his first year if he had to work with the same group Lefty got when he arrived.
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As bad as the BC offense was yesterday, I was amazed by the amount of dropped passes.
They had several good plays where a guy got open and promptly dropped the ball.
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More teams than just ECU will have to devote time to scheming against us. Could shake up the whole division. UNC had their hands full with a fired up squad last year, surviving on a call that should have gone to league headquarters for review. They haven't been consistent yet this year.
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Watching at the time I thought Lefty felt all he had to do to beat Bud was run the QB. Their QB did have the longest rush from scrimmage, (9 yards), but kept them behind the chains trying run most of the time. It also looked like several times they wanted to scramble fo yards, but we were gap sound, and the QB had circle out so deep the D was on him before he could get any yards, and he had to throw it away.
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Most of the heat for this season is under Addazio's seat, so I don't think there will be a lot of attention paid to Loeffler -other than the "returns to VT" storyline I haven't heard a lot about him in the media up here in MA.
Other interesting items from the Boston Globe this morning:
- Addazio was interested in Sam Rogers (when coaching at Temple) and was quoted yesterday as now wishing he had made an offer to him
- Andrew Ford (remember him?) started for QB at UMass in place of injured first-stringer and won against FIU.
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I disagree with the call to not criticize Loeffler. He can't call a game when things start going south. He can't improvise. Oh, sure, he helped bring in better talent but I think that's far, far more damning of how awful our recruiting got with Stiney and OCain and that Loeffler just brought us back to where we should have been. His offensive philosophy sucked and failed at 2 different schools, and doesn't look much better at BC. And even more damning, 3 games after good exit at VT we are putting up 7 TDs with ease against ACC foes with the same players with which he struggled to put together effective drives.
I'm glad he's gone and I'm very glad he's coaching a team we are forced to play every year. Chalk BC up as a win every year until he is gone.
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I'm not saying Lefty was a great coordinator but he did have some pretty significant obstacles to deal with. He lost his line coach and receivers coach to better offers. He lost his best (not two, but three) running backs. And if that wasn't enough lost his QB his last year. We don't know how many games we would Have won if Brewer doesn't get hurt last year.
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Maybe it'd do us well to think "What would Frank Beamer do?"
Just see no reason to dump on anyone at this point. Lefty did the best he could. There's no arguing whether he put in the hours and then some. There's no arguing effort. The man spent far more time on the job with VT than was probably healthy.
Let it go and enjoy where we are headed instead of stewing over, for many more reasons than "OC", the last few years were a disappointment.
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Frank willingly chose about 15 years of Stiney, OCain and then Loeffler. Love the man, but when it comes to offense, I have to say I'm not going to go by what Frank would do.
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Lefty was a good recruiter, and established an actual offense that could generate points and had a chance of winning. There's no doubt that the current team is a lot better now because of some of the good things Loeffler did when he was at VT.
During the Lefty years, VT beat Ohio State. Unfortunately, VT also lost to Wake Forest. The problem appeared to be in the playcalling, which often seemed almost TOO clever, and didn't really translate to reality of scoring or winning important games.
There's aptitude, and there are results. The results are what ultimately matter.
I sure am glad Loeffler left some talent on this team. I'm also glad to see Fuente taking advantage of it.
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You all have made great comments on both sides of the coin. Lefty made me emotional. I don't like to get emotional in that way. But seriously, He has a tremendous work ethic but not the ability to develop and then execute a sound strategy.This includes adapting and overcoming adversity through out the game based on our strengths. WF was a perfect example.
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I still want to believe that if a player came in and learned Lefty's system for 4-5 solid years, it would probably produce. But ain't nobody got time for that. He's been in only one place for more than three years, and that's Michigan as a QB coach.
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The anOSU victory was running around my thought process. Loeffler had more rough games than good ones and left us frustrated and confused on several occasions, but he did orchestrate the offensive game plan for one of the biggest wins in program history.
I say let him be. I was certainly relieved at the outcome yesterday. It was the most enjoyable time I've had at Lane in several years, sad as that is to say, during the regular season. Insert preseason joke here.
He has moved on, and so has VT. We should also.
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I know BC has limited offensive weapons, but his 'game plan' was a joke. The defense was great, but there was nothing they were doing that was fooling anyone. Felt bad for BC's guys because I looked up when it was 42-0 and thought 'They still need to get their asses kicked for another 20 minutes'
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I don't know that it was a joke. I spent some time today looking at the replay. Several dropped passes. Several times receivers were running open and the read wasn't made even with time. BC QB locked onto a single target frequently. These were just the things easily seen by a piker such as myself. I'm sure I missed stuff, and that the camera did as well.
I suspect the analysis from French won't be all that glowing on Motu either, but I'm more fuzzy on what his assignments are on any given play.
I know it's not popular, but if his players executed Loeffler's game plan the way Fu/Corny's executed theirs, the game would have been much more competitive.
Bottom line though, none of that matters. It's just not a good look to kick anyone when they are down.
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I'm glad he's gone and I'm very glad he's coaching a team we are forced to play every year. Chalk BC up as a win every year until he is gone.
Hey, this is the last time you will see Loeffler. The HC is gone after this year unless a miracle happens. Scotty will be looking for a FCS job somewhere.
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You think Scotty LoL would change is philosophy since it obviously doesn't work at this level. He has to realize that these young men have full plates with school, family, football. Stubbornness is a weakness and I for one am glad we are rid of it.
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"But where it really came into more in play was the passing game. I just kind of got his gear of what he was doing by splits and things of that nature and we tried to mix up our coverages as far as some zone. He was running mesh routes and then we were playing some man off of it too."
I don't feel compelled to rip on Lefty. He did what he could, and it didn't work out. If he's really that bad, I hope he continues to coach our yearly opponents.
Edit: Unless he goes to UVA, then he deserves it
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Comments
HAHA
Scot Loeffler stunk up the joint like he did against Wake Forest . He's BC problem now.
Nah, the breath of fresh air from the other side was too overwhelming.
49-0, bro
The only reason we didn't score 70 was because we didn't want to score 70
BC is a good defense. We made them look like they were chasing shadows.
...and never catching them
And we tackled like a pack of wolves.
to be fair, only David Wilson is fast enough to catch a shadow
Wait...am I the only one that chases my shadow?
Bc had 124 yards of offense and ran like 5 plays in our side of the field
Yep, sounds about right... Glad we have Fuente
That is because we had a turnover on our side of the field
of which they still didn't score.
False start, sack, tfl, false start, punt
Yup, sounds about right
edit: repeat
35-0. Fourth and 15 at Tech's 32 yd line and they're going for it. False start and now it's fourth and 20 and they decide to punt. What?? You're down 35 zip and you punt? What difference did 5 yds make at that point?
Not like he wasn't used to 3rd and Forever at VT. You would think he would have had a few plays to pick from like the bubble screen.
I literally LOLed when Loeffler called a poorly executed screen on 3rd and long. It went for 2 yards of course, and they punted the following play.
Maybe if Sid Vicious was still kicking. Addazio should check the fan section again if they keep failing to score.
I'll take Fuente over Loeffler any day of the week and twice in game day!!
Fuente and Foster make a stellar pair...without the turnovers we looked awesome.
They had 6 first downs, two on tipped balls.
Yum Yum!
No clue how to post the actual GIF
There ya go
I guess you could say that no one in BC's offensive film rooms is going to be getting off scot-free.
I generally don't like to take enjoyment in other people's misery.... But Matt Ryan, ergo LOLoeffler
I surely hope they keep Loeffler for many years.(this makes me miss Al Groh not being at UVA)
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"- Colonel Sanders
C'mon guys, Loeffler just needs to recruit his own guys for his system. /s
haha. three years later.
Turns out those guys he recruited look alright in someone else's system.
And as Juniors and Seniors...rather than Frosh.
It was never the kids who were the problems. They were generally the bright spots in the offense. They tended to get hurt (Edmunds, McKenzie, Williams) or stagnate (McLaughlin, who looks better to my untrained eye this year).
Bronco agrees with this philosophy
Like we kept waiting on? Promises, promises
We drank every time they mentioned loeffler as our former oc or anytime bc did something loeffler-Esque. I'm kinda hammered.
Kinda? Were you only watching half of the game?
Plot twist: he was drinking Shirley Temples
I don't miss you, Loeffler. At all.
That was 3 seasons of pent up rage against Loeffler, Foster finally got his licks in
Can you imagine the whooping Bud would deliver if he coached against Stiney with all of those years of frustration?
He just needs to keep that motivation for every game for the rest of the season. Great motivation though.
Scot Loeffler is the GOAT.
I'll drink a rollingrock to that.
Damn right you will.
2 years later and the first paragraph here still makes me laugh:
http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/september/10/how-virginia-techs-o...
Geahhhhhh!!!
There was so much hope in that sentence.
Im imagining Bud at some point tonight sat back in his office, kicked his feet up on his desk and tossing a football in the air to himself...just grinning.
Oh, I think Loeffler knew what he needed to do, but then he had to keep tinkering and getting cute with the offense. He just keeps outsmarting himself.
It seems good players make Scot Loeffler not Scott Loeffler makes good players.
Does Mason still contribute here? Don't remember seeing his name on an article recently.
Nope.
http://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/442963#comment-442963
Mason is focusing on more important real-life stuff. He has an open invitation from me to publish any thoughts on Virginia Tech football if has the free time and desire to do so.
Good to know. Thanks Joe. I always really enjoyed Mason's stuff, and he was engaged and passionate in the comments without being a dick. Hope all is well with him.
He's doing excellent game commentary on Twitter @3rdand31
Today I learned: Mason blocked me on Twitter. Wonder what I did.
Get drunk and phreak out on him?
One: I like Loeffler, but I don't see how his scheme can make it at the college level without some major buy-in from a school willing to suck for a long time first.
Two: If this is Fu's offense with no fumbles, I am absolutely salivating over Fu's offense with no fumbles and 5 or 6 games worth of execution under everyone's belts.
That second part cannot be said enough. We made it look easy against a legitimate good defense today. We didn't need home run shots, we didn't need trick plays, we just lined up and marched the ball all over the field on them and they couldn't stop us. And then we put our second string in and they marched right down the field, too. Boston College could not stop us, and they were a legitimate Top 5 defense last year.
This was the third game this team has played under this regime. Imagine how good this team can be with a year of experience under their belts. Imagine this team with a QB who has spent 2+ years learning our system. And then realize we play in the Coastal.
We might break 100 against the Hoos this year.
The only worry with that comment might be how many of our players decide to leave early.
That might be why Bucky and Ford got sat early in the third to prevent a) injuries, b) glorious stats.
The bagman needs to start figuring out what it will take to keep Ford around for another year.
Hey now. Yes, that will probably make most men do about anything and woman have been using it for years to get what they want, but this need a "nsfw" warning. You could get some people in trouble here.
I don't think he has a scheme. He has a bag with a bunch of playcards in it and his pet spider monkey pulls plays out of the bag randomly.
No, that was Stiney's O.
Stiney didn't need a bag to hold his plays. Maybe a food lion brand sandwich bag.....
He might have a setup similar to how family guy shows are planned....
VICCCTOORRRRYYYYYYY!
Pretty sure that Helen Keller could put together an offense better than LOLOEFFLER.
And this is who we play next week:
Why do we lose to them?
http://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/453354#comment-453354
Yep, a lot of our struggles with ECU have been
On offense. We scored 28 last year, to an ECU D who gave up 31 to UFs terrible O, 45 to Navy, 23 to SMU, and 45 to BYu.
The year before, 21 but it took two Miraculous catches by Ford. The year before: 15. 2012: 17. Tyrod lit them up in the 4th QTR in 2010 when we scored 40-something.
Let buds D do their work, we will win 41-17.
I vote we blame it on Loeffler.
Talented QB with a skilled WR
NT that would eat through double teams
Loeffler or O'CainSpring offenses
Why
dodid we lose to them?FTFY
Better question, why do we have a 30 year contract with them?!
So when is kickoff??? Hahahaha
This sums it up.
I tried to warn guys that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to hire Loeffler coming off a historically bad offense at Auburn. It seems that BC didn't learn from our mistake.
I don't think that Addazio is a terrible coach but hiring Loeffler was/is not going to help his job security one bit.
Crazy to think that Addazio was a hot name for coach openings just two years ago.
Loeffler was only good under Addazio, so
Maybe the Stache needs to take over.
Even yesterday, Loeffler was lauded as some qb guru. Where did that reputation ever come from?
When we hired Lefty, I looked him up on Wikipedia. At the time, there was something about QBs that he's coached had gotten a combined 5 Super Bowl rings. (The text has since been changed.)
So, Iooked it up. Tom Brady had 3 rings at the time. Brian Griese got a Super Bowl ring by carrying a clipboard for John Elway. I don't even remember who had the fifth ring, but it wasn't by virtue of playing in the game.
Tom Brady doesn't even count on that list, because Lefty was just a grad assistant.
The text now just reflects players that he has coached:
Again, Brady doesn't count, and of the rest . . . well, let's just say that Brady and Griese alone gets you over 300, and the rest might add up to a season's worth of starts.
Ultimately, I think the "guru" part comes from this (emphasis mine):
Um.............
Look at Tebow now...
...on the Mets. haha
I wanted the game to end with Bud hitting Loeffler with the Stunner.
Most dominating VT win I can remember in a while....please inflict this will onto ECU.
Some buddies of mine and I always chat during the games and we said the same thing
When was the last time we had this dominating of a performance against a pwr 5 opponent?
38-0?
.....which was followed up a week later with the beat down by Clemson in the ACC cg.
2000 against Rutgers apparently.
Same margin of victory as the 55-6 beatdown of Maryland in 2004, as well.
Reminded me of 2003 Syracuse. The Deangelo and Randall show.
As long as we never play a game that reminds me of '02 Syracuse. A game that still gets mentioned in random games when we play (today on the radio) and when Syracuse plays (on tv vs Louisville last week). That game will not die
Gahh that was gut wrenching. At least this five touchdown game was a win.
I'll just leave this here.
I was at a fundraiser tonight and was talking with a big time ECU fan. Needless to say his uncomfortableness was visible after a quick score check. It's a different story with Fu at the helm.
Pretty much this, except we stayed dry.
I hope to everything that is holy that this isn't a one hit wonder. I am happy for the team and especially Bud. You know he was fully dippped halfway through the 3 rd!
I don't like nor agree with this thread.
Yeah we destroyed BC and lefty didn't do anything against bud today, but he went to BC they has worse talent than Tech did... Of course we were going to stifle them.
If anything, we should be thanking him for saving us offensively for getting Ford, Cam, and switching Bucky to TE.
I enjoy the victory, but I take no joy in rubbing his nose in the dirt. He helped upgrade us when we desperately needed it. We should not hate him for his time here.
Well said.
I agree and BC obviously doesn't have any talent on the offensive side of the ball. They had trouble scoring points last year too
stop talking sense!
I agree though.
Lefty inherits the angst and schadenfreude that is rightly reserved for Stiney. It is what it is. We will never get the chance to vent our frustrations against Stiney, because he will never be an OC for an FBS program again.
There is no denying, we were a better program after Lefty than before. But this fanbase has a LOT of pent up rage that dates back to the early years of Stiney's OC career. We needed to vent that. Lefty is the scapegoat.
Then shame on us for bringing out the pitch forks and burning a man on the stake that actually saved us. We don't need to become like the sec fan base. What you said is a poor excuse and we shouldn't use that to justify hating on the man.
You can scream into the wind all you want, and it won't change the prevailing sentiment. Lefty promised to make changes to our history of offensive ineptitude, and for the most part he failed to deliver. He was the Seth Greenberg of OCs, delivering good performances in our biggest games and duds in most everything else. But he did restock the cupboards by selling his vision, and that had left Fuente all the pieces to work with. I don't hold any animosity toward Lefty and hope that one day he simplifies his scheme enough to work at the FBS level. However, he was far from the man who "saved us." The men who saved this program are Frank Beamer for knowing when it was time to retire, and Whit Babcock for bringing in Fuente.
Yes Whit did a solid hire, but Frank really should've retired a few years ago, so he's hardly a savior in that respect. Because Frank didn't know when to hang it up, Lefty did the best he absolutely could with the shoddy pieces we initially had. So yes I think Lefty did save us - without him we'd probably have been below 500 easily with O'Cain and company still recruiting and providing offense as they did.
I guess i'm not sure where your anger lies - the fact that Lefty didn't do more with what little he had (which in my count isn't fair) or the fact that Beamer didn't hire someone other than Lefty that's more to your liking? Considering the fire dump he had inherited, I don't blame Lefty for anything, and certainly not this charge or overselling and under performing.
It's fairly obvious Frank realized too late that he had to field a competent offense to be competitive in the modern game, and didn't understand enough about modern offenses to know who he should hire. Loeffler knows football inside and out and sold Frank on his vision in the same way he sold recruits. Results failed to materialize, and after three mediocre seasons, Frank hung it up. Did he stay too long? Perhaps. But he also bowed out graciously, preserving his legacy and allowing us to revere him despite his decline in his last years. After the ignominious ends to the careers of legends like Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno, that was a refreshing change of pace. Frank loved VT football enough to walk away from it before he damaged the brand and fostered animosity from the fanbase. He didn't retire a moment too early, but he didn't hang on too long out of pride, ego or spite.
Lefty did what he could, limited at first by bare cupboards, then by his own overthinking. When his scheme worked, it was beautiful. But it required too many things to go right for it to work. Perhaps a place like BC will be the right environment for him to find success, as the lack of blue chip talent will probably force him to simplify his scheme. I wish him well in every game he coaches except when it's against us.
My anger doesn't lie anywhere. I don't take the glee in watching Lefty fail that others have seemed to. I said as much in the open thread. But I understand the psychology of those who are taking pleasure in the dismantling of Lefty's offense. For years, honestly for over a decade, it was the lack of an offense that prevented VT from winning a national championship. Dismantling our old OC represented symbolically turning the page on years of the offense failing to hold up its end of the bargain. And although that frustration would be better targeted at Stinespring, O'Cain, or even Beamer himself for holding on to outdated offensive philosophy, Lefty presented an easy target, and lots of Hokies fans took aim.
To paraphrase Chris Rock, I'm not saying it's right, but I understand.
I agree with this 100%
I think there is a big difference in "taking pleasure in the dismantling of Lefty's offense" and blatantly laughing at him personally and hoping for his future failure. (not saying you specifically are) And to be honest I don't understand it, Chris.
What Lefty promised to VT or didn't promise is irrelevant. What Lefty accomplished or didn't accomplish is also irrelevant. Ultimately he was selected and hired by Frank Beamer. Despite the inability to reinvigorate our offense he produced one of VT's highest profile wins EVER. Despite not have much success at QB he coached and called a team that was in the gutters of rebuilding, kept them bowling along the way and restocked the QB, WR and TE coffers.
But most importantly, this guy was a Hokie. He respected the program. He worked his ass off day and night while having a new born watching tape, sleeping in the office, etc for this program. No matter his ability or inability at producing an effective offense or calling a good game, that should demand some measure of mutual respect.
I agree with the ire towards Stinespring, and I agree with the ire at O'Cain, because they were the instruments of destruction. But I only agree with that ire in the sense that they needed to be replaced or removed from the position they were in. Not that their failures wherever they ended up following VT should be a point of prideful ridicule. Fuente is coming into VT under different circumstance than Lefty did. No, I don't believe Lefty would produce a 49-0 against BC with VT as Fuente just did. But he slogged through the years the program was at it's lowest in 2 decades and kept us over 50%.
Much like a player such as Trey Edmunds transferring to Maryland. He was productive here but became overshadowed and decided to leave. That guy is still a Hokie to me, he wasn't the next great RB for us, but he put in the work for me to respect that he had to make the decision he did. I support that and I support his success at a program I very much despise. I still want to see the Hokie defense shut him down for negative yards, but if/when that happens, I'm not going to laugh at the guy and pour salt on the wound.
That has to apply to Lefty as well.
Beyond that we here on TKP are always talking about how we are some of the classiest fans around. We shame other Hokies that display crassness. And outright troll fans from less savory programs constantly. Aren't we better than assigning Lefty the same "lol" preface that we give to the one school we will, no matter the circumstance, want to kick in the teeth? I think we are.
Lets be gracious in our win and shake the man's hand, wish him well for the rest of the season and go about our business.
Especially since he was for a time, one of us.
VT offense, 2012: 83rd yards/game, 83rd pts/game, 68th in S&P+, 86th FEI
VT offense, 2013: 103rd yards/game, 101st pts/game, 93rd S&P, 92nd FEI
VT offense, 2014: 99th yards/game, 94th pts/game, 85th S&P, 112th FEI
VT offense, 2015: 74th yards/game, 53rd pts/game, 72nd S&P, 94th FEI
The advanced metrics recognize that VT in 2015 played Purdue and Tulsa, two completely inept defenses and got 22 more points from 5 overtimes (4OT vs Duke, 1 OT vs NC). Without those overtime possessions and worthless defenses VT's raw stats would look just like his previous two efforts. No one views him as a savior because he took a bad offense and made it worse. Most saviors don't demonstrate their genius by burning their village to the ground.
Then your saviors are just no fun.
I'm not sure where to even start with this:
It's could'ves/would'ves - you hate a man that couldn't miraculously turn us around on a dime and take us from 103rd in O to top-10? You're really going to be disappointed in life then. The only reason we progressed as well as we did and not further past 100 is because of him and his ability to recruit players. Doesn't matter who else we could've hired.
Look at the dumpster fire Fuente inherited at Memphis before he got his own players. They were 112 and 119 the first two years he was there before he started to turn his ship around. Doesn't matter if we had Chip Kelly as our O coordinator instead of Lefty - he still didn't have the horses to work with.
You could argue that he should've done better his last two years here and that his scheme might be too complex for CFB, and perhaps I'd agree, but I think he was progressing in the right direction and didn't leave us in a worse place than when he left. For that I thank him.
Frankly I think people (including myself) just think that Loeffler is a bad offensive coordinator, and was from the time we hired him (as evidenced by the talk coming out of Auburn at the time). However 'we' got shouted down over and over again that he just needed more time, that he would surely do better this year, that the job was too big. Now we want an opportunity to point out that he is, in fact, a bad offensive coordinator, and you're probably not going to change many of our minds about that.
I get what you're saying, we didn't have a Mike Vick on the roster when he got here. But yeah, I think a Chip Kelly or Justin Fuente could have done more than Loeffler did in his time here. Way more.
1) I don't hate Loeffler the person. I have no opinion of him as a person. I hated his play-calling and job performance at VT.
2) Nowhere did I say I expected top 10 performances. No one ever expected that from him. He was brought in to make the offense and he utterly failed. Other coaches have had more success at worse spots.
3) He recruited Andrew Ford, Michael Brewer and Chris Durkin. He inherited Bucky. Shane recruited McLaughlin. Ford and Phillips were recruited by Moorehead. He didn't recruit any of the RB Hydra he and Shane mismanaged/broke during his tenure. Who am I missing?
Loeffler's gone. There's no need to be an apologist for him anymore and pretend the awful stats and performances don't exist/don't count because mumble mumble reasons. He ran the offense deeper into the ditch it was in.
I'm not even sure what you're stating here - "he was brought in to make the offense and he utterly failed"; you're essentially making my point. You can't bake a cake without the right ingredients, and he certainly didn't have it. Again you can talk to him perhaps having too complicated a system for CFB and I might agree with you, but he certainly for sure he didn't run the offense "deeper in the ditch it was in".
Also, Bucky was a TE. And as soon as Lefty was brought in he instantly knew that he was not QB material and moved him to TE/WR. Us having a dearth of talent forced him to get Brewer, Durkin, and Ford. You can thank him for seeing we didn't have the horses and bring in new talent. Re: specific guys - it was him who helped organize and increase recruiting which led to people wanting to come and play for us. You think Moorehead was the reason Ford wanted to play at Tech? Please. Same with Cam.
No one's being an apologist, I just know i'm rationale enough to understand the position we were in and how bad off the previous regime had left us. If you're expecting him to make wine out of water then of course you're going to be disappointed. And lest you forget he actually increased offensive production while he was here save one year. No need to blindly rage at him.
That was supposed to be "make the offense better". Forgot a word. He was brought in as a QB whisperer who could fix Logan Thomas because he helped coach Tom Brady. He didn't do that. The offense continued on its same downward descent. The advanced metrics that take opponent quality into account are pretty clear that the on-field product did not improve while Loeffler was here. The facts are what they are.
Do I think Ford and Phillips were swayed to VT because Moorehead's a good recruiter? Yes. Though I suppose if you want to argue they were lured here by Loeffler's offensive scheme of bubble screens and jet sweeps you can. I'm sure his recruiting prowess means Saban will hire Loeffler this offseason when Loeffler's out of a job and Kiffin takes a head coaching gig somewhere.
There's no blind rage here. He was terrible at calling plays and coming up with a coherent offensive attack. I'm glad he's gone. I never expected him to make water out of wine. I expected competence and didn't get it unless it was 2015 and they were playing a ridiculously awful defense.
There's no way he could fix Logan in one year. He's also stated multiple times that if he had Logan for more than one year he could've done wonders. Even if I did agree he failed miserably with Logan (which I don't), yes he is an excellent QB coach and his past record talks to it.
The facts are what they are after you removed certain games / other qualifiers from your previous post but ok - whatever floats your boat. And ironically, if you've followed TKP or TSL writers, the same jet sweeps and screens that you're against is exactly what we're doing right now and what Fuente plans on doing. Nothing too different on that front - most likely the multiple looks and assignments associated with them that made our minds wrap up our feet on the field.
I'm obviously not going to change your mind but you're selling him short if you think he came here and left the program a lot worse than what he inherited. He's the impetus and reason why we're doing much better (so far) this season on O.
Lastly - we did have some games that we just steamrolled the other team on O, a la Miami in 2012 I think. But I guess we can forget about that, right?
Haven't read the whole the thread, but I'm not sure anyone has said Lefty didn't leave us in a better spot than when he arrived. People are saying he's not a good Offensive Coordinator. Which is 100% fair. His scheme is far too complicated for college offenses. He put together some good game plans along the way but his consistency as a coordinator does not work in his favor. Comparing Fuente and Lefty on play calling isn't really fair. There's a reason Lefty's screen and jets didn't work and Fuente and Cornelson's do work. There is a reason he is at BC where offense is optional. I have nothing against the guy, but he wasn't a good fit at Offensive Coordinator and he remains that way. Would probably be fine as a QB coach somewhere.
That's fine, but to destroy him in a thread isn't warranted. I (and many others from what I can tell) are of the opinion he did more good than harm in his time here, so I wanted to point that out.
I have very little anger towards Stiney. He wasn't an elite OC or even a good one but he was also hampered by the big man quite a bit. Having a head coach who was aiming for 30 points at best with a 2-1 advantage in TOP doesn't really inspire an exciting offense. Stinespring bled orange and maroon while he was here and worked his ass off to try to field a good unit. I feel your pain for sure but I have a lot of respect for what that guy attempted to do here.
I fully concur. I think CFB just put a bag on the offense at certain times during the game. It mattered not who the OC was. How many times in the Red Zone did we run and run and run and run. Very predictable.
I agree actually. Stiney was actually a great OC and a great recruiter. One of the reasons we started recruiting badly was once he got off staff.
Okay, now you're just trolling.
It's....complicated lol.
I don't know if I should be excited that we have such a high profile former coach as a member of the Key Players' Club or if I should be worried that now I know for a fact Stiney has read all my criticism of him on TKP.
Dude, how do you think I feel?
if I'm ever in the same room with you and Stiney, I'm gonna introduce you as "the guy who founded the Fire Bryan Stinespring blog" and then just sit back and be like:
Which one?
This sub-thread needs to Focus on the Future.
via GIPHY
Probably shouldn't have been a thread that made fun of Lefty in the first place....
Man, some of y'all are too sensitive. The man failed, got canned, and goose-egged against his former team. That is funny and jokes must be told. As long as no-one gets personal, it's all in good fun, and honestly, therapeutic for a fanbase that had to live through some of the worst offensive performances in our history.
My favorite play was when the QB had an empty backfield, faked a hand off (to no one), rolled out, and threw out of bounds.
I think Fuente and Cornelson identify the mistakes and clean them up quickly, they also admit that certain things like at at wide receiver isn't that good right now.
Lefty on the hand never admitted anything and the mistakes would continue throughout the season. I think there is a certain football mind and thought process that is different with fuente/cornelson
I'm sure that Lefty stated that we're lacking in depth. He's talked to the fact that he hated playing Ford so many snaps per game as he did, but considering we had Deon Newsome (now a DB) and other ppl that really didn' t make an impact at all - what choice did he have?
I use to argue Loeffler was a net positive for Tech. No more. However, I agree with the poster a few up, we can relish a sound victory and newfound offensive success without kicking dirt in anyone's face.
Three full quarters to gain 100 yds. Great defense and a horrible BC offense. Hope l never have to watch another Loffler offense again , but was happy that he was able to see what a real offense looks like. The great defense was not BC
I hope we watch his offense once annually for many years to come
I totally agree with you. In fact I'm a bit disappointed to see some of the replies in this thread. I'm as happy as the next Hokie to finally see us having some success on offense, but I don't think there can be any question that Loeffler gave us his all while he was here. Was he as successful as we wanted him to be? Of course not. But we can be happy and hopeful for the future without gloating or rubbing anyone's face in their failures. Leave that for the other boards.
Nah. He brought this on himself. Every time his ridiculously overcomplicated offense failed he blamed the players for not executing. I think the tipping point for me was when he completely neglected to prepare Leal as a backup, then blamed Leal for not being prepared. Then the exact same thing happened when Brewer got hurt. He never owned his mistakes and was too proud to learn from them, to the team's detriment. He deserves what he gets here.
The only thing you were right about is that his offense was overcomplicated
Leal, bless his heart, wasn't a great QB at all. Even if he was prepared to play I don't think he would've had much success at all
This is fair. I don't Loeffler is as terrible an offensive coordinator as he is made out to be, that includes jokes from TKP. He did a very good job stocking the cupboard during his tenure at Tech. His ultimate downfall was over-complicating the Hokies' offense to the point of ineffectiveness.
I couldn't help but notice Boston College's struggles on offense being very similar to Tech's over the last 3 years. It was a little bit 'Haha, he's your problem now', but more remembering what a mess things at Tech had been and laughing at the situation.
Anybody else notice that BC didn't prairie dog at all during the game? No hurry to the line, then all look to the sideline?
Exactly. Let's not pretend for a moment that without high quality mobile QBs with the ability to improvise, we ever would have become the contenders we learned to expect to be.
Ricky Bustle was decent at working with what he had. IMO, Stiney and Loeffler were very similar in terms of game-day play-calling: dependent far too much on their idea of what should work, instead of what actually was working on that day. As such, while their playbooks were much larger than Bustle's, they were much worse on calling the actual plays for a consistent offensive performance.
The only coach I thought we had, briefly, that was worth the title was Kevin Rogers, and while I don't know if we could have kept him for long anyway, it is a shame that wasn't recognized at the time by Frank Beamer.
Now we have Fu and Corny, and it was unbelievably gratifying to see plays that they found were working called over and over again. Granted, the scheme allowed that to occur because a whole lot of things were working out of the same sets, but this was true for Loeffler as well -- receivers were often open, but the read progression depended on more than most College offensive lines could give, much less Virginia Tech's.
The turnaround in my mind truly started with Coach Grimes resetting the expectations and mentality of Offensive Line play, and was cemented with Searels' continuation of that passion and coaching acumen.
Without the changes in offensive philosophy that started way too late IMO, coach Fu would have had far less to work with, and this year would would likely be chalked up as a probable breaking of the bowl streak.
That feeling when your Legendary Defensive coordinator shuts out your former idiotic Offensive coordinator!
Granted, Lefty has his issues, but it's not his fault he's hired by HC's who get from him exactly what they want.
Lefty is a bit of a paradox.
His system appears to be too complicated for college, and would probably work well in the NFL with more experienced players who have more games and more practice time.
However, he's probably not going to have enough success at the college level to get the call from the NFL.
Maybe his system is more suited for the NFL but it's a little far to assume he'd be successful there for my tastes. As others have pointed out, his biggest weaknesses seemed to be focusing almost solely on creating advantageous matchups and failing to recognize or call the plays that the team could execute that a defense struggled against. I have my doubts that those weaknesses wouldn't cause serious problems in the NFL as well.
Lefty resurrected some O talent and at least implemented a system as opposed to the monkey humping O we had with Stiney. To me his biggest downfall is his lack of ability or refusal to adjust. A lot of the plays Fuente ran existed in some form in our playbook last year. Use of personnel and play call sequencing are the biggest differences.
We are a lot better on O due to the recruiting and coaching efforts of Lefty and his crew. I agree that Lefty had issues at times with his play calling but he did help to upgrade our talent. I don't understand all the hating on Lefty. He inherited a train wreck when he got to Tech and now has the same but worse situation at BC. Don't get me wrong, I love the new coaches and think we got a home run with the Fuente hire but let's give Scott a little credit. As good as Fuente and crew are I don't think he would have done much on O his first year if he had to work with the same group Lefty got when he arrived.
As bad as the BC offense was yesterday, I was amazed by the amount of dropped passes.
They had several good plays where a guy got open and promptly dropped the ball.
More teams than just ECU will have to devote time to scheming against us. Could shake up the whole division. UNC had their hands full with a fired up squad last year, surviving on a call that should have gone to league headquarters for review. They haven't been consistent yet this year.
Watching at the time I thought Lefty felt all he had to do to beat Bud was run the QB. Their QB did have the longest rush from scrimmage, (9 yards), but kept them behind the chains trying run most of the time. It also looked like several times they wanted to scramble fo yards, but we were gap sound, and the QB had circle out so deep the D was on him before he could get any yards, and he had to throw it away.
Most of the heat for this season is under Addazio's seat, so I don't think there will be a lot of attention paid to Loeffler -other than the "returns to VT" storyline I haven't heard a lot about him in the media up here in MA.
Other interesting items from the Boston Globe this morning:
- Addazio was interested in Sam Rogers (when coaching at Temple) and was quoted yesterday as now wishing he had made an offer to him
- Andrew Ford (remember him?) started for QB at UMass in place of injured first-stringer and won against FIU.
Saw those nuggets in my Sunday Globe as well.
I wonder what the Bronco thread at BYU looks like? Too bad they don't play LOLUVA this year.
Something like this
I disagree with the call to not criticize Loeffler. He can't call a game when things start going south. He can't improvise. Oh, sure, he helped bring in better talent but I think that's far, far more damning of how awful our recruiting got with Stiney and OCain and that Loeffler just brought us back to where we should have been. His offensive philosophy sucked and failed at 2 different schools, and doesn't look much better at BC. And even more damning, 3 games after good exit at VT we are putting up 7 TDs with ease against ACC foes with the same players with which he struggled to put together effective drives.
I'm glad he's gone and I'm very glad he's coaching a team we are forced to play every year. Chalk BC up as a win every year until he is gone.
I'm not saying Lefty was a great coordinator but he did have some pretty significant obstacles to deal with. He lost his line coach and receivers coach to better offers. He lost his best (not two, but three) running backs. And if that wasn't enough lost his QB his last year. We don't know how many games we would Have won if Brewer doesn't get hurt last year.
Maybe it'd do us well to think "What would Frank Beamer do?"
Just see no reason to dump on anyone at this point. Lefty did the best he could. There's no arguing whether he put in the hours and then some. There's no arguing effort. The man spent far more time on the job with VT than was probably healthy.
Let it go and enjoy where we are headed instead of stewing over, for many more reasons than "OC", the last few years were a disappointment.
Frank willingly chose about 15 years of Stiney, OCain and then Loeffler. Love the man, but when it comes to offense, I have to say I'm not going to go by what Frank would do.
I'm not asking anyone to do what Frank would do as a coach.
I'm asking people to consider his actions as a man.
I believe you missed the point by a few miles.
Foster to LOLoeffler:
"Man, GET THAT SHIT OUTTA MY STADIUM!"
Eloquent as always mcgruber
Lefty was a good recruiter, and established an actual offense that could generate points and had a chance of winning. There's no doubt that the current team is a lot better now because of some of the good things Loeffler did when he was at VT.
During the Lefty years, VT beat Ohio State. Unfortunately, VT also lost to Wake Forest. The problem appeared to be in the playcalling, which often seemed almost TOO clever, and didn't really translate to reality of scoring or winning important games.
There's aptitude, and there are results. The results are what ultimately matter.
I sure am glad Loeffler left some talent on this team. I'm also glad to see Fuente taking advantage of it.
You all have made great comments on both sides of the coin. Lefty made me emotional. I don't like to get emotional in that way. But seriously, He has a tremendous work ethic but not the ability to develop and then execute a sound strategy.This includes adapting and overcoming adversity through out the game based on our strengths. WF was a perfect example.
I still want to believe that if a player came in and learned Lefty's system for 4-5 solid years, it would probably produce. But ain't nobody got time for that. He's been in only one place for more than three years, and that's Michigan as a QB coach.
The anOSU victory was running around my thought process. Loeffler had more rough games than good ones and left us frustrated and confused on several occasions, but he did orchestrate the offensive game plan for one of the biggest wins in program history.
I say let him be. I was certainly relieved at the outcome yesterday. It was the most enjoyable time I've had at Lane in several years, sad as that is to say, during the regular season. Insert preseason joke here.
He has moved on, and so has VT. We should also.
Don't forget that monstrosity of a game where we put up 100 yards against Pitt.
He got shut out by WFU.
I will add all the Auburn fans laughed when VT hired him. I guess it is our turn to laugh at BC.....
Does anyone know if Lefty addressed the media after the game? I'd like to know his thoughts
I know BC has limited offensive weapons, but his 'game plan' was a joke. The defense was great, but there was nothing they were doing that was fooling anyone. Felt bad for BC's guys because I looked up when it was 42-0 and thought 'They still need to get their asses kicked for another 20 minutes'
I don't know that it was a joke. I spent some time today looking at the replay. Several dropped passes. Several times receivers were running open and the read wasn't made even with time. BC QB locked onto a single target frequently. These were just the things easily seen by a piker such as myself. I'm sure I missed stuff, and that the camera did as well.
I suspect the analysis from French won't be all that glowing on Motu either, but I'm more fuzzy on what his assignments are on any given play.
I know it's not popular, but if his players executed Loeffler's game plan the way Fu/Corny's executed theirs, the game would have been much more competitive.
Bottom line though, none of that matters. It's just not a good look to kick anyone when they are down.
The times that I focused on Motu during the game, he seemed to be doing a pretty good job, but that was only a few plays .
Hey, this is the last time you will see Loeffler. The HC is gone after this year unless a miracle happens. Scotty will be looking for a FCS job somewhere.
UVA?
You think Scotty LoL would change is philosophy since it obviously doesn't work at this level. He has to realize that these young men have full plates with school, family, football. Stubbornness is a weakness and I for one am glad we are rid of it.
Pfffft. I'm not rid of it. I'll never be less stubborn. Never.
Scott Loeffler is not a good offensive coordinator.
This quote from Bud just about says it all. He knew the routes being run based on the formation/splits of the offense.
Courtesy of Andy Bitter, http://www.roanoke.com/sports/columns_and_blogs/blogs/andy_bitter_virgin...
From the article- Grant Noel previously held the record for TDs in his first 3 games with 8. I didn't realize he had 8 TD in his career.
There was another Noel record Evans broke/tied as well. Not sure how I feel about that.
I don't feel compelled to rip on Lefty. He did what he could, and it didn't work out. If he's really that bad, I hope he continues to coach our yearly opponents.
Edit: Unless he goes to UVA, then he deserves it
Are we seriously talking about Loeffler when we have such a golden Caption-the-Pic opportunity here with that Evans photo?
Like how Evans looks a lot less excited about this shutout than Beamer did for that one against wake?
"Wait, so we gotta beat up some pirates next week?"