I decided to put together this post to add to the discussion and perhaps myth, that Bud Foster struggles against dual-threat QBs more than other top defensive coaches in the nation do. It uses stats from before the start of this season, and examines Nick Saban's struggles against the most dynamic threat in CFB, the dual-threat QB in a spread style offense.
-All of Bama's losses since 2010 have come against dual-threat quarterbacks. Almost all ran spread or multiple offenses. Bama's record vs pro-style QBs under Saban is something like 52-2.
Let's examine the QBs in all of Alabama's losses since 2010:
2010
USCe - multiple - dualQB Stephen Garcia
LSU - pro style - dualQB Jordan Jefferson
AUB - spread - dualQB - Cam Newton
2011
LSU - pro style - dualQB Jordan Jefferson
2012
A&M - spread - dualQB Johnny Manziel
2013
AUB - multiple - dualQB Nick Marshall
Okla, Sugar Bowl - pro - mobile QB Trevor Knight (top 4 rusher, toys w/ Bama's pass rush buying time
2014
Ole Miss - spread - QB Bo Wallace (running threat, top 4 rusher on team)
Ohio St - spread - dualQB Cardale Jones
2015
Ole Miss - spread - dualQB Chad Kelly
All of the above losses for Alabama were to teams with QBs who were in the top 4 of rushing attempts or rushing yards for their team. Not all of them are dynamic dual-threats, but all of them are mobile enough to be a threat. Again, this presents a striking pattern against the biggest football defensive powerhouse in the nation where pro-style QBs are smacked away like gnats (52-2 record) and dual threat QBs have caused almost all of Saban's losses.
For more reading on this issue, here is an article from ESPN that discusses how Bama has struggled against dual threat QBs and how they are now recruiting to combat it. Link
Comments
Those are some interesting figures. Thanks for putting them together.
Seems like dual-threat goes with the college game a lot more than pros.
Also nice to know VT isn't the only program that's struggled with them.
Thanks, took me a little while on the iPad, but something that always comes up every season. Hopefully now that it's posted it can be used as a reference point in the future, if it doesn't generate a ton of discussion right now.
Glad you did this as I have attempted to explain, at great length, many times to dispel this stupid ass narrative that gets brought up every single time we lose a game.
"BUD CAN'T STOP RUNNING QB'S THE GAME HAS PASSED HIM BY, FIRE HIM. SCHEME ALWAYS ACCOUNTS FOR SCRAMBLING." /s
My reply to all of those nay sayers is JT Barret
And Denard Robinson. And even (to an extent) Brett Hundley - in that game, our players were in position to make plays several times and just blew it. I remember that in the film review; lots of poor tackling in that game. Then when LT3 went down, the morale of the team sort of plummeted and we got housed.
To elaborate, this is usually the case when any team struggles with a scrambling/running QB. Sometimes you gotta make plays one on one. This was a big issue against Summers last year.
Exactly. Bud's scheme should have worked against Hundley, but all anyone remembers is his total yardage and how bad the final score was. The tone could have been quite different in that game in the first half or so.
Couldn't agree more.
Another way to stop running QB's is to have such a large and athletic d line that you can cause tremendous disruption and clog up the pocket every play. But even when you have this (this requires multiple, large elite athletes on your DL two deep) it doesn't help in the instances where a DT qb does break contain. Then it comes down to making one on one plays in the open field again.
Yep. And even Bama's "all-everything" d-lines have struggled against the dual threat because even elite speed DL couldn't match the speed/agility of a lot of these QBs. Which is why you've seen Bama recruit WR's turned d-linemen and more down-specific players as an attempt to remedy.
If 5-star DL talent sometimes isn't enough, you have to respect that you can't scheme these guys into being the best athlete on the field (which is often true of DT-QBs)
Spread Offense has always been a problem for Bama. I wonder if there's any defense that actually plays better agains dual-Threat QB than pro-style.
Most likely Pittsburgh, with the way they load the box and leave their cornerbacks on islands, but too lazy to look up my assumption.
But.... but.... but I thought running QBs were a very specific kryptonite to the VT defense and the #1 reason why we'll never ever win anything of importance again, because if you have a weakness like historically struggling against a certain type of player, the game has passed you by and you'll never be good and your momma doesn't love you anymore and GO BAMMA, PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWL
The university of east Carolina is the one that hurts me.
You mean Eastern Carolina?
Yes! Thank you. Legs and a wing for you sir
The only true way to offset an opposing dual-threat QB is to have more offensive weapons when its your turn with the football. A defense can only do so much alone and needs help (as we have witnessed for so many years under CFB) .
People forget that foootball is more like baseball than we like to think: everyone gets a turn to score it's just if they take advantage of it. Sure they can have a guy batting 1.000 and hitting only homers, but if your guys can keep grinding out singles, you can keep pace...
The first game I can actually remember attending is the '99 season opener, I was 9. Except for disjointed memories of a snowy game sitting in the old end zone bleachers. Then I got to go to New Orleans for the title game later that year (first bowl game), although my dad didn't let me leave the hotel after 8pm. It was 2005 before I got to see Bourbon Street full of.... Hokies haha
Brace yourself for an old guy comment:
Vick was electric but the mobile quarterback goes back as far as I can remember. McNabb is an obvious comparison but as a Redskins fan, I remember there always being a dynamic runner who'd frustrate our good pass rushes.
McNabb..."The vomit, then 'the catch' "
One big reason why I never liked Syracuse and the Carrier Dome. That place is cursed I tells you!
NONE of those guys you mentioned were/are anything like MV7.
^^^^^Agree with this x INFINITY^^^^
Steve Young is another example.
However MV7 took it to another level. His speed and agility were way beyond the predecessors. I would love to see Vick in one of these new RPO offenses.
Remember when John Elway was young? Back in 1983, when he was drafted, he was considered one of the most gifted athletes to have ever seen the field. This is part of the reason why he was able to combat being picked #1 overall by the Colts since he didn't want to play for them and Denver was able to work out a trade.
Now put 1983 John Elway against 2001 MV7 and I think Mike could literally run circles around John and beat him to the end zone.
When asked for a comment Elway said 'I'm sorry, I was polishing my two super bowl rings'
The loser ones?
That just means Elway never had to play for the Eagles.
Archie Manning
Sammy Baugh
Honestly, it's the none dual threats that seem to run all over us. How many times have we seen usual statues break out time and time again?
Kaaya didn't do anything like that.
Kaaya was more of a Manning-Brady statue.
Yeah I'm talking stone statues, not quite as immobile as those two.
It's much more rare than you are implying is my point. It happens but it's not with regularity.
Aaaaaaaaand Tom Savage just got sacked.
Every once and a while we're going to line Dadi up at linebacker; our opponent couldn't plan for that.
Then you wonder about in-game adjustments, but all you have to go on is that last play...you can't throw out all their other tendencies (things you know they're good at) to stop that once-in-a-season run he just pulled off.
Is this a "here comes VT, just tuck it and run, they won't stop you" or a case of "this team has an excellent defense across the board, we need to pull something out of our ass, how are you at scrambling?"
The advantage of a DT QB usually comes down to the defense has 7-8 defenders on a pass play. The offense has five legal receivers. Bumping that to six potential playmakers by running the QB (who already sees where the d-line is by the time the play develops) changes a lot.
I bet all of those teams (except maybe 2010 USCjr) had at least 2 top 10 recruiting classes within the four years prior to beating Bama.
SCAR had a number 7 and number 14 in the four years beforehand. Pretty good.
Interesting but is this just a bama thing or in general teams are more likely to lose to mobile qbs?
Everyone.
Exactly. That's the point I was making by using Bama