Here's my hard take, what did you see?
Defense was excellent.
Offensive Line was pretty decent.
Special Teams are horrible. Think its time for VT to implement a Special Teams Coordinator.
Trey Edmunds had a good game, but doesn't look fluid as a running back. He kind of looks like an athletic linebacker playing running back. The should pads he wears seem to big for a runner.
Demitri Knowles plays timid. He doesn't go after the ball, always waiting for it to come to him. His speed is negated because he slows down when a defender approaches him when returning kicks. Doesn't juke or make a cut either. Extreme butter fingers and lack of aggressiveness in the Bama game. I think Josh Stanford should leapfrog him on the depth chart.
Logan Thomas isn't a true quarterback. He should have been developed as a Tight End, may have even become an All American at that position. Like last year he can't throw a short ball, has no touch. He's too predictable running the read option and doesn't make good decisions on when to keep. He only makes yardage on the keep when there is a gapping hole, because he has no burst and zero moves/elusiveness. So why keep it unless it's 3rd and 1, or a huge hole opens? Throws a fairly good long ball, but all these things combined make him easy to game plan for.
The defense will keep VT in many games, but the offense kind of looks the same and so unexplosive. Maybe 8-4, what do you think?
Sorry, love the Hokies, but didn't sugarcoat the obs in hopes that an uproar will help improve these deficiencies in the future.
Comments
What did I see? I saw a team that the consensus best team in the nation couldn't shutout.
I saw promise and some of the best O-line play in recent years. Defense=EPIC!
Yeah I feel good about the O-line also. Demitiri Knowles just scares me at receiver. He looks like a deer caught in the headlights still. I think Josh Stanford should start ahead of him, he's more aggressive. Trey Edmonds was good but just didn't look natural at running back. Maybe it was his slightly oversized shoulder pads.
Good point. If not for the special teams malfunctions, the score would have only been 14-10 Bama, but don't you want more from the offense? I really think Josh Stanford should start on offense, and Dadi Nicholas on defense. They are both more productive than the players ahead of them. By the way who got burned for the 3rd Quarter touchdown pass to Christion Jones?
I'd say 21-10 or 14-7. They scored a touchdown (immediately) off an interception, we only scored a field goal.
Desmond Frye was in for the injured Jarrett. Jarrett wouldn't have let that TD happen especially with the monster game he was having
Dadi is gonna be a beast, Dmitri should not return kicks as you noted above and I thought this new kicker was supposed to be putting everything out of the end zone in camp thus no big returns??
I agree, which makes me wonder why not play him more now? He's very productive/disruptive. Didn't notice the kickers much. If you mean Mithchell Ludwig he's just a true Freshman so I'll give him a pass against the Bamas. Seems like VT falls in love with kickers from Southwest VA fairly often, but I think they need a Special Teams Coordinator like many teams are trending toward to ensure impartiality and devote more time to the specialties.
I disagree entirely on LT3. He looked really, really good today, with the exception of maybe 4 throws. Not bad against a top notch defense. Also, Edmund's looked legit. He hit the hole at full speed every time. It was rare to see him taken down in the backfield or pushed backwards after contact.
However, one thing I saw that made me extremely happy was this: when VT was backed up around our own 5 and NEEDED to push the ball forward, what did we see? An outside zone that we'd run all spring and fall. That's our bread and butter, we-need-a-few-yards-now play and it was awesome to see it executed to perfection.
*Edit* Also, the offense looked far from the same. That is a much different, much improved unit from the one that took the field against Rutgers in December. Lots of room to improve if course, especially at WR, but still a pretty darn good showing up front against a quality opponent.
Interesting evaluations. I'll keep your thoughts in mind as I watch upcoming games. Hopefully your take is more accurate and they can build on their performance throughout the season. What's your opinion on starting Josh Stanford ahead of Demitri Knowles, and more playing time for Dadi Nicholas?
Why thank you, although admittedly that was from the nosebleeds (but let's face it, no bad seat in the Georgia Dome). As far as Stanford and Dadi are concerned: Josh caught the darn ball. That's enough for me. And Dadi made one of Bama's best OL (unless they subbed out Kuiandjo or however you spell it) look like he was standing still. As well as Collins played, I wouldn't say no to seeing more of Dadi. I'm interested to see French's film review of this one for sure.
Wow, you are ridiculously observant. The coaching staff can use you when you graduate. You got to go to the game, that's cool, I'm lucky if I make one game a year in Blacksburg or maybe when they play in Charlottesville. Burdens of a working man.
Hah! I won't disagree, but here's a turkey leg anyways for stroking my ego. I actually love coaching and hope to someday coach a JV squad part-time or something. But yes, being in college does have its perks. Going to great stadiums on a fairly regular basis is definitely one of them.
Also, I will admit that part of the reason why I want tosee more playing time for Nicolas is so that I can get a little more use out of my "Who's your Dadi?! cheer.
What a fan. I respect your assortment of turkey legs.
Accuracy by volume, my friend.
My worst case prediction was we would lose by 25, which we did. My best case was holding alabama to 14 points, but I wasn't predicting a W or L at that point--just that if we held alabama to 14 points, it would give us a chance to win. Well I am very happy to say that the defense did just that, they held alabama to 14 points.
Alabama is the kind of team that when you make a mistake, they will make you pay for it: case and point, 2 bad return coverages and a lazy route/not so great decision pick-6. It's very important to remember that when a team is 'average' at something, Alabama will make them look like a dysfunctional high school team--we saw that in the special teams. I can't walk away feeling completely angry at special teams since I know it consists of a lot of young players and alabama will exploit that.
Finally, I suspect DJ Coles and Demitri Knowles were in the game as much for their run blocking as the potential at receiving. They both have great potential, but the sad fact is Stanford was the one who made a tough catch, took the hit, and held on. DJ and Demitri played scared and timid. I don't think you will see them playing like that against WCU, but remember--Moorehead probably has them working out right now out of sheer frustration (probably not...but I wouldn't put it past him). If the younger players can develop and become good run blockers, I would imagine you can start to see some of them playing more often.
Regarding LT and the OL. This unit is MUCH improved from last season. With the exception of the 3rd quarter and a few other instances Logan had the time to make the right decision and the right throw, although often is was dropped or the receiver ran the wrong route. Logan was at one point, I think, 5-25 and i would estimate that about 15 of those were drops or bad routes. Last year the Hokies couldn't pass because of pressure on LT and couldn't run because the OL was not producing a push against the DL. Against Alabama, the nation's best defense, the OL and the run game looked great.
I heard a statistic that last year VT's defense was ranked 19 and Oregon's was ranked 2. The point difference between us and Oregon was less than the point difference from Oregon to #1 Alabama. Given that statistic and the fact that we were a few key drops, bad routes from scoring more than 10 points, I give this team a lot of credit. They are very young and it showed but they essentially held their own against the #1 team. Considering the OL is new, the RB is new, the WR's are young and/or inexperienced, and a new offensive system was installed with NO preseason games to work with....this was a downright phenomenal performance by the Hokies. It's certainly frustrating to see how we were 3 mistakes away from having a closer game, but there is a lot to take away.
Good analysis but disagree on Edmunds. To me he looks likes a bulldozing RB that has good speed as well. I think he has a chance to be as good as some of the stud RBs Tech has had in the past.
He clearly has what it takes to be good. I still think, though, that this being his first game, it hasn't all clicked yet. If that is the case, when this kid figures it all out, he'll be great. We saw his power and fearlessness last night, I haven't seen many serious moves yet. But there was that one spin move on CJ Mosely, who is being talked about as a first round linebacker. We need a GIF of that.
Someone do a gif of that spin move he executed leaving th AA linebacker grabbing for a chick filet w American cheese and pickles I think the end of 3rd or early 4th. Sorry just saw your post above calling for same.
Trey Edmunds=Lee Suggs clone in pads! Ill take another Lee Suggs
It's not Logan's fault he is the QB. The blame rests on Glennon
Maybe you guys forget why Tyrod didn't redshirt in '08? Oh and this pro-glennon stuff has to stop
There isn't really any pro glennon stuff going on. What you said as pro glennon stuff is people not personally attacking a guy who is not affecting the program right now.
I liked a lot of what I saw during the game. After the game... not so much. I don't like seeing players and coaches content with a loss, regardless of whether it's to the defending champs.
I don't think they are content with a loss at all.
I think that they are focused on getting better and are already getting ready for the next game.
Lunch pail, baby! Buck up and get back to work.
Logan Thomas isn't a true quarterback. He should have been developed as a Tight End, may have even become an All American at that position. Like last year he can't throw a short ball, has no touch. He's too predictable running the read option and doesn't make good decisions on when to keep. He only makes yardage on the keep when there is a gapping hole, because he has no burst and zero moves/elusiveness. So why keep it unless it's 3rd and 1, or a huge hole opens? Throws a fairly good long ball, but all these things combined make him easy to game plan for.
this
People need to stop down voting for disagreeing with opinions...
Thanks, but I could really care less. When recycling jokes that aren't funny anymore and agreeing with everybody is the way to get turkey legs on here, I'll pass. Discussion boards are for sharing opinions. If everybody had the same opinion, this place would be useless. Funny thing is, I'm posting actual facts about the game and I'm getting downvoted because it doesn't align with the hopeless optimism of some people. I love VT. I get animated for games. If we play well, I'll be just as excited as you. But I'm a very rational person and until I'm given reason to believe otherwise, I'm going to temper my expectations for our passing game.
Your first comment was an entire paragraph from the original post, followed by "this." While I don't think it's worthy of a downvote, I don't see your revolutionary opinion anywhere
People are getting pretty carried away with the downvoting, for sure. I think some of the negativity is coming from your repeated assertion that you're the only person thinking rationally and some of the comments read as being very snarky. Let's everyone watch tone and realize that we are all cheering for the same team, we all want to see them succeed, and we all bleed Orange and Maroon.
I have to imagine that a cake made out of rainbows would be delicious.
I get what you mean. I was just frustrated by how that aspect of the game (throwing the ball) turned out. I know we'll get better; I just hope it's in time for our big ACC games.
I think the next couple of weeks will tell us a lot. Can this team play effectively against WCU in terms of (1) finding an offensive rhythm and (2) not playing "down" to their opponent? Can they keep up with fast-paced teams like ECU and Marshall, and is the secondary as good as advertised in those situations? If we can succeed in these games and fix the mistakes that have been pointed out already, I think everyone's frustration level will decrease and we'll know a ton more about where this team stands going into all-important ACC play.
No need to fight y'all. But I would agree with the bit about the zone read. I wouldn't mind getting away from that.
Really? You want to get away from this?
You're right, but that didn't have the feel of a true read option if I can call it that. That was a hand off all the way. I'm talking about the slow developing plays were LT takes to long to make a decision. i.e. the play where Edmonds got spun around when Logan took to long to pull it out... cue lame jokes...
I believe the play you are referencing got blown up from the middle (some combination of center/guard missing a block). Logan reads the DE on the read option, and there I think he held the ball in Edmunds gut so long to try to avoid a fumble as he saw the DT or LB crashing in the middle... Not because he was having trouble reading the play.
Even if this wasn't actually a read option play, the design of the play is to use the read option look to freeze the linebacker from backside pursuit. Without using the read option several times earlier in the game, the linebacker comes crashing in and tackles Edmunds early. That linebacker stayed back to protect against Logan keeping it or giving it to Byrn (who would have been the 3rd option). Looks like a triple option to me. But, if it isn't, the play is set up by running it earlier and showing the exact same pattern of movement.
Very well explained.
Very well indeed. Because this play worked, the same set will result in a big gain later on the field side options. The field side OLB and safety may react to the first option allowing LT3 or the hback to run or maybe a hitch and go to the inside WR. I can't wait for french to analyse.
I will say this. I do not want to see all the read option to be Edmunds up the middle and LT to the outside all the time. LT is much more a threat of a runner up the middle (terrible laterally). I don't think we ran this version of the read option against Bama because we didn't have our best outside runner JC. Once he's back in the fold, I think you'll see both the pistol read option with Edmunds in the game and the standard shotgun (RB to the side of QB) read option when JC is in the game. Cue #TruckAndChuck.
No, we don't want to get away from this. This was textbook blocking. I'm sure french will address this as "why this play worked and why it will pay dividens later." BTW did you notice how Miller exploded to engage the boundry side ILB- awesome!
i noticed linemen getting to the second level a lot. daddy like, daddy like
This is just awesome. Looks like he's throwing Lonnie Pryor into a hole. Dadi smash!!
Please see the recently-posted breakdown of LT3's throws.
What I saw:
-Trey Edmunds is our new feature back as far as I am concerned. He did more in one game than anybody has since David Wilson left. Even if you take away the long touchdown, which was impressive, he had 55 yards against the Bama defense, which isn't exactly setting the world on fire but would have been one of the best efforts of any back last season outside of JC against Duke. I still want to see JC and Mangus mixed in but I hope Trey gets a big majority of the carries until he gives a reason not to do so.
-The D is just nasty. Simple as that. They played their hearts out. I have zero worries about them and they will only get better when Exum is back. Could be the best defense we've put out there in several years and we've had a lot of great ones. So excited for Kendall Fuller, he lived up to the hype in his first game.
-Logan Thomas was nowhere near as bad as his stats would indicate. He definitely needs to improve, he still had some 2012 Logan moments. But his receivers did more to hurt his performance than any group of receivers for any QB at any level of the game I can remember watching. It would take at least two hands to count on your fingers how many times he hit a receiver in the hands with a good throw and they dropped it (looking at you, Coles and Knowles). Logan Thomas did not lose this game, but he did not do what he needed to to help win it either.
-About the receivers, just plain embarrassing. If I never see Demitiri Knowles in a game again it would be too soon (has he ever done anything outside of the long TD against GT last year? I can't remember). He was bad on returns and worse on offense. DJ Coles was also bad but I'll cut him some slack as he's coming off an injury and has at least performed in the past. Not sure why Stanford never showed up, couldn't tell if he was never put in much or if Logan never looked at him, but I don't remember him having any drops either so I guess that's almost a positive. Would be nice if Caleb could step up as a receiver if Edmunds locks down the tailback position, but it didn't sound like he was going to amount to much there either.
-OL played well. Blocked well for Edmunds and Logan all game against arguably the best front 7 in college football. A small bright spot in this game. It's too bad the rest of the offense couldn't get it going.
-Special Teams was obviously an abortion. I miss Beamerball. I understand injuries and departures took their toll on this unit but they simply need to be better. It was gut-wrenching how this could have been such a close game outside of the two ST touchdowns and one boneheaded Logan throw. We would have had a chance at the legendary upset. But that's in the past now, all there is to do now is improve.
Overall I see a lot more positives than the boxscore would indicate. The two biggest problems to me were the receivers and special teams which, as CFB said, are very correctable and could easily get better as the season progresses. Those could very easily have been due more to inexperience and offseason rust than a lack of ability; I got on the receivers' case a lot for the drops but to give them credit they were getting open quite often, and that's half the equation. I had a great time in Atlanta and the student section (where I was) cheered their hearts out until the very end. (On a side note, cutting off Enter Sandman for Sweet Home Alabama was a major bummer and was a sucky way to start the season, I get that both teams came out at the same time but that was poor planning. Let each have their own entrance.) I think with our schedule we are poised for another 10 win season and ACCCG appearance as long as we stay focused. #BeatWesternCarolina
I saw trench warfare that should be able to handle everyone the Hokies play this regular season. The passing and special teams just have to not screw over the offense
What I saw:
VT had more total yards than Alabama. Edmunds was better than Yeldon. If Knowles and Coles didn't play like "hot garbage," then LT3 would have looked better than McCarron. The best D-line in VT history. Some damn good Secondary play from the starters. (TD was on backup Frye).
Anything Emma Watson gets a Turkey Leg from me.
LIAR!! You didn't give me a turkey leg from this post:
http://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/48144#comment-48144
(Still at 0)
This has been remedied. My sincerest apologies.
For the record there were 11 counted drops last night. If those are caught, Logan's star line is 16 for 26 against ALABAMA. I believe that's pretty good.
How many did defenders get hands on out of the drops?
I'm not sure, I'm not following you. What are you getting at here?
Just wondering how many are to blame on the receivers and how much is on Logan throwing into coverage.
A lot.
I saw a defense that played its tail off even once the game was decided and did everything that could be asked of it in order to win a game. I saw a special teams unit look like a hot mess. I saw a running game and offensive line do about as well as could be expected against the caliber of opposition. And I saw a passing game that needed to be taken out back and shot.
I could be mistaken, but I didn't see any passes to TEs. Were they just not open, did they stay in to block 100% of the time, or does Logan just not trust them?
Also, there was one play in which Logan looked downfield for a deep receiver, saw none, and CHECKED IT DOWN to Edmunds. I don't think he did that much at all last season. Going through progressions is progress.
I have a feeling DJ Coles and Demitri are not going to like this upcoming week of practices
What really amazed me is that Bama only scored once the entire 2nd Half (though I don't think Saban would want to intentionally run up the score on Beamer, out of courtesy). Our defense really showed great conditioning this whole game.
It really helps when TOP is 30:45 - 29:15 (numbers were close to this).
I didnt even notice that Brandon Facyson was in the game until i rewatched it. I am assuming that's a good thing because he had his man locked down the entire game? Really excited about him.
He only allowed one pass. About a ten yard out route that he got turned around on.