[Mod Edit: Don't feel obligated to delete or edit this thread. The original post had some solid thoughts, and there is a great discussion. Read this before you get a pitchfork out though: http://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/496337#comment-496337.]
As I'm sure most of us are aware, it looks like we're moving towards having a paywall.
While I understand why this might be the case, I am upset. As a student, I can't afford to join TKPC and was assured that this site wouldn't become subscription -- specifically for that reason (among other things)
From the FAQ page about TKPC
It goes against our culture and original mission. We don't want to use a paywall to incentivize those who can afford The Key Players Club to subsequently block those who legitimately can't afford it (students most specifically). The hope is those with some extra money who can't live without TKP's content and community are motivated to enhance TKP's offering and ensure it stays online.
Joe, if you read this, I just wish there could be some communication instead of me finding out by some joking message on the film review telling me I don't have the money to read it.
The film reviews are some of this websites best articles. It's what is used to incentivize other people to check out TKP and maybe join as a member if they have the means to do so. How can this happen if they can't even look at the reviews anymore?
I'm sad. :(
Comments
I've been sending links of the film reviews to hokie co-workers to encourage them to come to TKP (and eventually join The Key Players Club, I hope). That ends now, obviously.
I'm pretty disappointed. I joined TKPC, used the Amazon link, bought merch, and donated a considerable amount over my 2+ years here in part to prevent this from happening.
Sadness, but understandable. Change is inevitable.
Maybe it will change back one day.
I hope Joe publishes a META post detailing the decision and how it will be executed. In general I liked the idea of keeping TKP free for everyone but I can understand how that may not be very sustainable...That said, I hope there is some compromise which can be reached. I'm not against releasing content exclusively to TKP club members early and then rolling it out to everyone at a later date (say 24-48 hours)...that way the content is still "free" (eventually) but for those paying members they get the perk of seeing it (and discussing it) before everyone else. Does that seem like a reasonable compromise or am I off base there?
You are not off base. I used to be a more avid poster but relaxed a bit as marriage and parenting took a larger role in my life (as they should). At the moment i can't justify giving money to sports websites when so much information is free in other places. I think French's analysis is some of the best out there and I get the desire to be rewarded for this. I am not arguing that TKP shouldn't be trying this, but this exclusivity will immediately reduce the amount of people commenting and, for me, push me away from the site. I like your idea of a delayed roll out.
It is similar to having an XBOX vs. PS console in the sense that PS offers free internet (or used to when i played) but the updates came later than the paying members of the XBOX world.
PS Network isn't free anymore either
and xbox has a better online experience so yea...
I can understand the 'why', I just don't like the 'how'. This seemed to come out of left field, especially given the quoted text. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission I suppose.
The message is clearly shown in that TKP members progress bar in the top right hand corner. Less than a 1/3 of the required membership to keep this website free. If you can't afford to pay $$, and keeping TKP free is important to you, show it by getting that progress bar to 1000 in any other way you can.
Get it. 100%.
But randomly blocking an article behind a paywall is not the way to announce this change.
I think you're taking it too personally then. I'm not going to speak for Joe, but I don't think he owes anyone an announcement or courtesy. He needed the community to answer the call, and fell short.
Joe, French, the entire team put in hours of hard, passionate work for this site. This site wouldn't exist without them.
But also, this site wouldn't be what it is without the amazing community. Many of us have been on this site for four years or more now.
I'm not criticizing anyone for the paywall. Joe doesn't really owe us anything. It's his site. But I think a lot of us respect this site so much because they do keep it open and it has been a stated mission to keep this site open and free.
To go against that idea, without even a heads up, is disappointing.
If it helps, apparently it was a click error by Joe (read below)....
332 people signed up for TKPC when the goal was 1,000. I get why this is happening. It's smart business. We all know and appreciate how much time and effort this site takes. You deserve to be generating more revenue.
BUT...no heads up or statement prior to and having to find out this way...
Joe and the entire TKP team, you're better than this. Sorry guys, you dropped the ball here.
Edit: just kidding
After pretty much a full year of advertising TKPC, we're at 33% of the stated goal. We aren't tripling active membership in one month, especially with football season coming to an end. I suppose Joe could wait until January to enact a subscription model, out of some sense of loyalty to the promise of not making the switch until next year, but just going by membership numbers, the decision has already been made, by us, the readers of TKP. Joe tried his best to use a business model that kept all content free, and it failed.
The incentive to join is simple: do you believe the content on TKP is worth paying for? I think there are a lot of people in your position, who intended to join TKPC at some point. Now they have to decide if it really is worth it to them. If this switch reduces your incentive to join, my guess is you don't really think the content is worth paying for. And there's nothing wrong with that. This switch just forces people to make a decision they were allowed to delay by the free model.
I just hope with the switch in business models, Joe converts to a monthly billing option. A reduced monthly rate for current students would also be a nice touch, but I don't know if that's really doable. (How do you verify enrollment status?)
THIS.
Can we all take a moment and realize that the TKPC isn't even 1/3 of the way to the goal set out 9 months ago? Does that not serve as warning to everyone who was complaining? The writing is on the wall. Has been for a while. Turns out it was just a mistake this time, but jesus, you've all had plenty of time to help out.
Let's try this, put away $3.22 PER WEEK and you'll have enough to pay for the Club in 6 months (less time than TKPC has existed).
If it's worth it to anyone to bitch and complain this much less than 24 hours after the mistake occurred, there's two reasons 1) You're overreacting 2) It's actually worth the $0.23 per day to you
And if I could pay $0.23 a day, or $3.22 per week, or $7 per month I'd have joined by now. It's one thing to sit there and say "Oh, just put the money away, you'll have it in six months" and quite another in practice. Like others, I feel no compulsion to justify my financial situation to anyone on the site but suffice it to say things are and likely will remain tight for the foreseeable future. With my already tight budget and historically bad luck when it comes to major expenses (mostly attributed to having a lemon for a car) I cannot see a time where I can realistically afford a one time hit of $84.
Is the site worth it? You bet your ass, it is. And *if* I had it, I wouldn't have it for long as it would already be on the way to Joe. I get it "the writing is on the wall" and I've "had plenty of time to help" but c'mon, you don't know my situation or that of anyone else who wants to join but hasn't. Statements like "you've all had plenty of time to help out" are presumptuous, divisive, and, in my opinion, borderline insulting particularly when paired with anything resembling "bitch and complain." So yeah.
Joe, I fully understand the situation the site is in. Believe me, I do, and I fully understand if you need to make the jump and put up a paywall. The site is absolutely worth it, especially when compared to the other Tech fan forums and those of other fanbases (looking at you Le Sabre). The quality of the community here, the threads started by members, and the articles that are posted by the entire crew are above and beyond anything else I've seen. As I've said, I know that I personally couldn't afford TKPC as currently structured but if it needs to be done, it needs to be done and I'd accept it and keep buggering on.
Apologies, I'll be the first to admit that I could afford to have a little more tact when I get worked up about something. I didn't mean to personally attack anyone who legitimately can't afford it, I promise, and I don't question anyone who says they can't. The part that set me off was the whole 'this makes me less likely to join' thing. I won't dig myself any deeper by going further.
Absolutely fair, I'd actually scrolled past that somehow. I didn't mean to single you out either, my apologies for doing so.
No worries, fam
Well, to answer you, I do think it's worth paying for. And I know I said I didn't feel the need to explain my financial situation but I will. I'm currently a contractor at an insurance company less than a year after graduation, meaning I can't say for certain if I'll have a job in January, and Christmas is a month away, and I don't want to regret the fact that I paid to read about sports if my contract should be terminated and I have more important things to pay for. A few months from now I should know a lot more, but right now I think it would be irresponsible to spend money on this.
Not sure why you'd edit the comment. I didn't take any offense to it and it was valid feedback.
Only because it didn't apply anymore once you said it was a mistake
I don't think you're reading this the correct way:
It is information about TKP Key Players Club, and this is Joe's explanation about why he is NOT becoming a subscription site yet. That is certainly the direction they are headed if TKP cannot get the funds to cover a full time reporter, which is one of the goals of TKP. However, nothing has been officially announced. This quote has been on the site ever since Key Players Club was announced and your post is a little misleading.
EDIT: All is good.
Hey y'all, sorry about that. I accidentally miss-clicked a field very late at night/early in the morning that made French's review only available to TKPC. My mistake! I released some code a while back that enabled that functionality on a post by post basis, and that made it much more susceptible to human error. Should be good to go for everyone now.
This is why TKP is the best and needs our help. Joe does all this ON HIS OWN FOR NO PAY. He codes it, he runs it, he is the editor, he is the management he finds us great writers like French and others.
Yeah, but PBR is his go to beer....
It's our responsibility to help him afford decent beer! What higher calling is there?
damn... great counter!
You're my boy, Joe.
Know if we can we get full refunds on our pitchforks?
Couldn't this have happened yesterday when I could've at least gotten my medieval torch and pitchfork on a Cyber Monday deal?
So Joe,
You may want to put something on the front page announcing the error....
somebody fire the nerd who update his Windows Vista code...
I could totally join TKP for $7/month. Just can't do $84 upfront. I'm sure Joe has considered this, and I understand it all. But I'm bummed. Oh well.
With a kid in college and Christmas coming up a 1 time hit is not in my budget. $10/month would work for me. I'd be more than happy to subscribe monthly.
hey, I'll front you the $84 if you want to pay my back $10/month. We'll call the remaining $36 a convenience fee...
Hell, I'll do it for $9.50 monthly. #Capitalism
Hah. I'm with you.
Shall we set up a lender's club?
Awesome!!!!! TKP Lenders Club. I wish I could give more than 1 leg. What do you charge for college loans.
I suggested $10 b/c if people only do football season then tkp collects 60-70.
done and done.
Precisely the boat I'm in as well
edit: oh what the hell. As soon as my next paycheck comes in part of it's going here. This is easily the most I've ever felt like a part of an online community, and it's a community centered around one of my favorite things no less.
hugs... come get some.
Now that the issue has been cleared up, let me just take a moment to share a few thoughts.
TKPC membership is far short of its goal. In Joe's post about its creation, it is clear that there is a massive disparity between the number of people consuming TKP content and those willing to financially back it. In the month before TKPC was a thing, there were over 113,000 unique visitors to TKP, 78% of whom were repeat visitors. That's a lot of people. There are 332 TKPC members at this time. That reflects about a 0.3% ratio of people backing vs. consuming TKP content.
Financial hardship is a hard thing to deal with. I know Joe understands that there are a lot of people in a lot of different situations out there. Asking for money is a hard thing to do. It's just tough to believe that we can't quite get to that 1% of readership to spend a few dollars per month.
I understand the suggestions above about monthly subscriptions. But there is a large problem with it. The money paid by TKPC members has a stated goal of employing a dedicated TKP writer/reporter. That costs a bunch of money (salary, benefits, etc) and the money has to be there up front for this to happen. That's why TKPC members are benefactors - they are guaranteeing a monetary commitment for a year. Who would take the job as the TKP reporter when people may suddenly drop their monthly subscriptions en masse? Dealing with a few people potentially fluctuating year to year (as is possible now) can be handled. But large changes to the revenue stream, which can endanger someone's job, is a much more pressing concern.
While you can't give monthly straight through the website, I've been giving monthly through paypal for years. Yes, I joined the TKPC but saw no need to cut off the monthly donation when I did so. Joe, would you prefer I didn't do that? Could we still do one off donations from time to time outside of TKPC?
I understand this concern, but I've felt like it was a bit of a straw man since the switch from. PayPal to TKPC. Getting the $84 up front is the safe and certain way to do the accounting. However, I think one big reason membership is so low is sticker shock. $84 is not an insignificant purchase. Excluding mortgage, car payment, groceries and utilities, I make a purchase that large maybe once or twice a month. It's usually for a meal (family of four). For a tangible good or service (as opposed to food), I might make an $84 purchase once every couple of months. It's a purchase I have to consider.
I'll drop ten bucks without blinking.
Right now, TKPC has generated $27,888 in revenue. It's been aggressively advertised for nine months. If you charge ten bucks a month and get to a thousand members, you surpass that total in three months.
Yes, people can cancel at anytime (and will). But let's say you get a thousand people to join at ten bucks a month for the four months of football season. Then let's say you lose 50% of your membership during the offseason. Over the course of one year, that generates 95% of the stated annual revenue goal, which is way more than the current model is generating. (We're on pace to generate 44% of goal over 12 months.)
The nature of subscription services is a monthly plan. Thats just the state of the industry. Netflix would be much less successful than it is if it forced people to subscribe by the year. I'd highly encourage Joe to examine the monthly option before going full paywall, because I think he's leaving a lot of money on the table.
I think part of the problem is that it's hard to offer rewards for a monthly signup. Many people would sign up, pay a month, get their bottle opener, then drop, ultimately costing TKP money. Which means the monthly option would necessitate a lack of rewards and would essentially just be a donation which was around for years without much participation.
so...you don't get the bottle opener if you're on monthly. Or you only get it after a straight year of membership. There are ways around the issue you fear.
Also, monthly membership should be signifiantly more than yearly (for those football season subscribers)
Significantly, maybe not, but it does need to be more to account for TVM, an $84 lump sum today is worth more than equivalent payments over a year, both from a strictly monetary standpoint and functionality.
Too much different and people may not pay it. You could probably get by with $0.50 or $1 extra per month without causing people to flinch too much.
Netflix, Hulu, Kindle Unlimited, Spotify, etc has everyone preconditioned to not blink at a $9.99 monthly subscription. It's not an outlandish price point, but people will also be incentivized to save the three bucks a month to do a yearly subscription if they can afford it or know they want access all year.
Well, I can only speak for me. If I can't hack an $84 lump sum (essentially $7/mo) but have a $10/mo option offered, I probably don't take it. If $84 isn't doable, I'm not going to pay an extra $36 for the same service.
With that said not everyone looks at subscription services in terms of total yearly cost like I tend to do, so $9.99/mo would probably work simply because people are accustomed to it.
This was also said in another thread, if you can't cough up $84 for a sports website, you probably shouldn't be spending any money on that sports website.
well, what about costs covering volatility of membership, or people only subscribing during "peak" months? I think anything less than $10/month would be unreasonable to the "lump sum" constituents.
Eh, you are paying for the content posted on the website. The goodies could be incentive for paying the large sum up front.
The assumption is we're going to a subscription model one way or another. I'm saying there needs to be a monthly option before that happens, because I don't think requiring a full year commitment will work in conjunction with a paywall.
I agree with so much of this and many of the arguments throughout the thread. Although I would much rather receive the content for free, if I had to pay for it I would find a way, even if it was just for the football season. But to be honest, the offseason articles are what get me through spring and summer.
I also think that providing students with a free membership would go a long way. Students could sign up during tailgates. I can see this fostering a young community of dedicated members who might be able to justify a membership upon graduation because they don't want to lose something they have grown to love. Perhaps they could even have a discounted rate for the first few years out of college provided they had a student membership initially.
I don't know how much of a nightmare this would be to manage but I think there should be four payment options:
1. A one time fee that covers you for the year.
2. A yearly membership that is broken down in monthly installments that cost slightly more than the first option.
3. A month to month subscription that costs more than option 2.
4. A week or month trial option that will go towards the cost of options 1 or 2.
My two cents for what they are worth
This is a great lesson though.
Let's face it: Not many people will pay for something they can easily get for free.
Joe & crew have intellectual property here that they have been giving away for free. It is content that is widely considered be be high quality.
This is a commodity, and many of its consumers of it are getting it for nothing.
While I've given via paypal previously, I am ok with being forced to choose just how much the TKP product is worth to me, and, frankly, I imagine the choice will fall on the side of setting up a subscription.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with monetizing this site enough so that it pays for itself. Indeed, there is nothing wrong with monetizing it further so that it makes a profit.
Invisible Hand FTW.
That awkward moment when Joe sees how some of you really feel.... /s
I get that some people legitimately cannot afford TKPC, but Joe has warned us repeatedly over the course of the last 8-12 months that he has to find a way to start making money off this website, or he'll be forced to shut it down. 1000 members isn't some arbitrary number that he set up, its a very specific number that he needs to reach to allow TKP to become a website that can support itself and take its contributors to something beyond unpaid volunteers, which is desperately needed for the amount of time and energy they devote to this site.
Right now we still haven't broken the 1/3 mark of that goal, and are 66.8% underfunded for what he needs.
Obviously, while we'd like TKPC to succeed, many attempts to try and push the club and have it grow hasn't really worked out as well as we'd hope, and in a few instances, has actually received pushback. Its becoming clear that we're likely not going to reach that goal, and even if we do, we're a few years away from it happening. Based on what Joe has said before, there are now 2 options: either incentivize joining TKPC with exclusive content (something he doesn't want to do, but....) or shut the website down entirely. Considering the code is there to make certain articles exclusive to TKPC members, you can see where this is going...
You might not like it, but its the reality we're in. TKP needs money, and our grass roots effort to get that money didn't work, so now its time for some more forceful measures.
This matches my thoughts to a T. So many people here are so much more linguistically gifted than myself
Great word, I really like Linguine too!
Like I said above, I totally understand the position Joe and the site are in and, ultimately, if it has to be done then it has to be done. I'll be disappointed, give a disheartened sigh, and then go about my day enjoying whatever features I can. Given the choice to make some content exclusive or shut the site down I'd choose making content exclusive every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The fact that I'm on the losing end of that equation is disappointing but life goes on
I won't speak for anyone else but I didn't take issue with the fact that the money is needed and he may have to take more forceful measures. I didn't like how the whole time he's said he wants to be as transparent as possible, and when access is restricted out of nowhere it doesn't seem very transparent.
With all that being said it doesn't matter because it was a mistake and that wasn't his intention. I will subscribe at some point, whether it's before or after my access is restricted, but not four weeks before Christmas.
The fact that we cant even get 1% of the visitors to pay is hard to believe. I understand the people that can't afford it .I have been visiting the key play for quite some time . I live in south Texas, I don't have anybody to talk when it comes to the Hokies. Not only is incredible content being provided but this is a fan base and community that is more family like than any other fan base I've been associated with in any other sport . It's been worth every cent.
As a content generator, I want to thank everyone for the kind feedback. Joe is the hardest working man in the accredited college football blog world. I can say that because I know (because I have watched it through the google docs editing interface) how much editing he has to do on top of all the coding required just to have the videos and links working correctly. I AM A PAIN TO EDIT FOR, and because of my bandwidth limitations and my stream of consciousness writing style, I don't catch things or change much on second and third reads. He really puts a ton of blood and sweat into the product.
^^ this ^^
This forum is unique in my opinion. I'd go so far to say that this website embodies the Hokie nation attitude and spirit. For people who aren't fortunate enough to live in the area, it is probably the easiest way for them to maintain their Hokieness.
Yes, there are some people who can't afford it - but common sense says this group is a minority. If half of the people on here have a VT degree, and a tenth of those have been out more than 5 years then (if my math holds) there are several thousand folks who can.
Part of what *makes* this site great is the large number of students that contribute. If they fall away the site will not be as good.
If you can afford it, and you appreciate the content then pry out the wallet and join.
This is my most used website by far. TKP is absolutely worth 84 dollars, but I cannot pay 84 dollars up front. I think we'd get a lot closer to our goal of the TKPC if we allowed monthly payments. I don't know how feasible this is for Joe, and I imagine it stems from a fear that people will pay during football season, but not other months. I imagine it would be very easy (though I could easily be wrong) to set the deal up such that the buyer is obligating themselves to 12 payments, but that the buyer would pay on a monthly rather than yearly rate. Perhaps the monthly rate might be 10 or 12 dollars as opposed to 7 dollars - this difference may still make TKPC affordable, but may it may also help cover the lack of members.
Feel free to delete this if I'm horribly misguided as to the rationale behind the current payment method or if it's already been thought of.
I want to join the TKPC now, but I don't want to join and then have the model change immediately. Is there incentive to join now versus waiting for the paywall?
You will experience no change in anything if you join now. If content goes premium, you'll still see it. I was completely unaware that anything had happened until people started commenting. If enough people join now, there will never be a paywall...
What about rolling back features? What were the costs in 2012, when we didn't have as much content (Less cost, I'd imagine) vs. what we have now?
I'm sure I'm in the minority here but, I come here more frquently for people's comments and #sauces than the articles.
Can we cut spending somehow?
@Jhalf, I don't think you understand. The content is provided by volunteer writers. There's no costs to cut. Joe needs a full time staffer to keep this website going (b/c he's been providing this on his own time and dime and it's become too much for him).
That's not entirely true. Some of the contributors volunteer their time (those that have gone pro in something else), others are compensated.
Hey, so Pierson Booher finally found a way to distribute all those Hardees coupons... good for him!
Well, I hope we don't water down the content regardless
Considering that the cost is less then a Scout or 24/7 membership and the content is so much better then anything else out there Hokie wise, I honestly think TKP is cutting a tremendous deal at $84/year. A lot of you are spoiled with TKP, as a follower of other schools (because they're local to me so I stay interested), they simply do not have this type of content and reporting, period. This site is extremely unique in the college football blog/website world. I don't think you guys realize how good this site is.
This. I can't tell you how often I ask friends who are fans of other schools for reading material on their team before a big game I want to watch just to be pointed to a 247 site. Or an understaffed sbnation site. There are legitimately maybe 4 or 5 other fanbases in the country with content this good. We have it made here and it's a credit to Joe and French and every contributor that they've been able to put out such high quality and quantity over the years.
agreed -and mogwai ARE dangerous...
What did I miss?
/s
We had what UVA fans like to refer to as a "kerfuffle".
I just joined. I feel obligated to show my thanks to all who work so hard to support this site. Thank you. Go Hokies! I am also blessed enough to have a good job and to be able to afford it.
Giddy up, I'm in. A full bonafied member. And the shiny digital key has never felt so good.
I agree that a paywall may have some negative impacts on the site and comments sections, and I'm not excited about this. But when push comes to shove, I don't want this site to go away. I used to read Gobbler Country before the Bleacher Report takeover. Beyond them, I would have to rely on the beat writers in Roanoke and Richmond. All of their stuff is okay, but nowhere as detailed, funny, and unique as TKP. And let's be honest, you had me sold when I realized that the Simpsons screengrab for 'Halfwits and Wagers' was the same every week. Love it.
Thanks guys!
I'm not sure if my experience was typical, but I tried to sign up for the site and was going to join the key play club back around the Syracuse game and my account was never approved. I just signed up again (with a new email and username) and had better luck this time.
It's hard to support the site if your account doesn't even get approved, and there's no obvious way to remediate the situation.
jeez, what'd you do to piss off Joe? kidding
Apologies for the delay. There's a note on the registration page with a contact email if you're experiencing difficulties getting approved. TKP gets a fair number of account requests, and to cut down on spammers getting through, each one is hand approved. Sometimes a valid one slips through the cracks.
Hope that doesn't deter you from supporting TKP.
No worries! Sorry for the tone in the original message. After re-reading it, I came off as more of a jerk than I intended.
Thanks for the great site!
Eh whatever I paid a long time ago. I've said my piece on this elsewhere.
Two months out of the year I get a third paycheck. December is one of those months, and I just gave a $84 dollar piece of one to support my favorite Hokie Website.
I think this was a subversive-guerilla-TKPC scare-tactic fund-drive... dirty pool, old man. and well-played...
7 members joined today...not terrible at all
Now if we could only get 7 new TKP members everyday...for 3+ straight months...
Not turning my nose up at 7 new TKP members, but it's not really a dent, unfortunately.
So per the numbers posted on the initial TKP post (since I have no other numbers to use)...
100K+ unique visitors in a month.
Of the 100K+, 68K are repeat visitors .
Of the 68K, let's say 1/10 read 80%+ of the articles posted for ~6.8K "power users" a month.
To get TKPC to where it needs to be, we need 1000+ subs .
That means we need 14.71% of the "power users" to subscribe to TKPC. These are the people who read every article and consume a ton of content, whether they are lurking or commenting on articles.
I completely understand that people have money troubles. People have kids (which I do not), families, car trouble, lose jobs, get jobs, move, etc. That's besides giving to church and charity, and doing some small "extravagances" each month or whatever (eating out, etc).
That said...c'mon guys. I hate calling out other fans. But even if you double that % required to get to fully funded TKPC (basically saying 1 in 20 repeat visitors instead of 1 in 10) posted above, over 70% of those "power users" haven't been able to come up with $84 in the last 4+ months for a site they spend HOURS a week on?
I know we've gotten extremely used to consuming either free content or content on a subscription, but Joe has already said that for these subscription numbers and to hire someone full-time with benefits, it will require a lot of cash upfront, thus the yearly model.
I know it's "just" a website. It's a website where I am proud to be part of the community when opposing fans come virtually visit. It's a website that has taught me as much about football in the last 2-3 years as I learned in the first 10 years of seriously watching football. It's a website with great mods, entertaining posts, and a custom comment system that is surprisingly good.
C'mon hokies! Let's get this site funded so we can STOP TALKING ABOUT WHETHER IT WILL GO TO A PAYWALL! Personally, I would MUCH rather discuss how we are going to stomp the SH!T out of Dabo and his stupid, strung-out kitty from the university that basically copied my undergrad alma mater and added a lake (seriously...).
After looking at the Turkey Leg leaderboard....
the top 1000 users have 75 or more TL's. 75 TL's isn't a "power-user" to me, but it's very difficult to determine how many lurkers there are who don't have accounts.
Is the TKPC analogous to the Hokie Club, in that our fanbase likes to have a great product without paying for it?
Are we a super rational fanbase who holds onto our money?
Is it because many of us live in the mid-atlantic which is super expensive?
What's going on here?
KeyPlay isn't scheduling ECU for the next hundred years, so I signed up
This is going to sound harsh:
There is a long list of items that you shouldn't have if you can't squirrel away $84/year. If the content is good enough that I can't find elsewhere, I will pay. If it's not and I can get it for free somewhere else, I won't pay. But the website can do whatever they'd like. Stop bitching about the FREE site that is being provided to you by others time and efforts.
I wouldn't mind joining, and have considered it on several occasions over the past months. However, now I find myself looking for a job during the holidays as I have been informed that my position is being eliminated. This just a few months after going a couple of million in debt buying a farm and starting construction on some chicken houses. Once I find another job and things get settled, I will consider it again, I just can't spend any extra money right now.
BTW-Anyone know of a good job in the Augusta-Rockingham area for someone with plant management/supply chain experience?
That is a little outside of my area of networking and knowledge. Good luck and I hope you find something soon!
I don't know of any in your specific field, but I have a broad network and can get you connected with a few people I know in that world here in our neck of the woods. Not sure the best way to get you my contact...
I guess I could post my email, and delete it as soon as I get a message from you?
Have you tried getting a job as a consultant in your field. My father in law just did that after years of running baking plants and he loves it.
I hadn't thought of that. Not sure how I'd go about getting into that though.
Who did your plant inspections? Go to trade show.
I was a consultant for 4 years. I got my start with a company I used to work for. They knew what I could do and were willing to pay for it on an occasional basis. After that it was developing connections with other potential clients. I suck at cold calling/networking so I only did work for 5 companies over 4 years and eventually had to go back to salaried engineering.
I came here because it was free. If it becomes not free, I'll go somewhere else. I don't think there's anything wrong with people like me.
I like this place, I think it's great. But it's not the only place I can get my information.
If down the line I can't do without it, that may change. But in general, when I've paid for content, no matter the source, I typically learn I can find it elsewhere. A lot of what is here is unique and maybe that will serve as the difference for me. Will have to see.
For me, the #1 thing is the sort of in-depth analysis that people like french do. I find it difficult to find that for football in general, much less VT specific. Well worth a few dollars a month.
The other thing that pains me is when I look at lists like http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ and see VT all the way down at 40. If we really want to return to being a top 10 team, we're going to have to start spending like we mean it. That doesn't necessarily mean buying a TKP membership, but it does mean ponying up money to support the team in as many ways as possible.
Then perhaps content like that French produces should be behind a paywall. But transcripts of press-conferences, recruiting and practice updates, and many other things are available in other places. The humor articles are often shared on reddit and gain much traction inter-collegiately. With a paywall, those opportunities to show off what we have here goes away.
I'm still paying my student loans. Once those go away, I will make more donations back to the university. In the meantime tho...
That's fair. It wasn't meant to be a criticism of any one person. Everyone's financial situation is different, and it's certainly not my place to judge that. It's also completely valid to not see value in supporting a site like this.
My comment was more meant to be a broader commentary on the reality of what kind of money it takes to be a top NCAA football program these days, which I think is something the VT fanbase collectively wants/expects.
And here I thought that we just needed to beat Syracuse and Georgia Tech to crack the Top 10 this year... silly me
Sure. You can be a flash in the pan without that support. And admittedly, VT has actually done pretty well historically with a smaller budget and 3 and 4-star recruits. It's not a formula for long term success, though. If you look at the top 25 college football rankings every listed team but Western Michigan and Colorado outspend VT on their athletic departments.
Not listed are: USC, Stanford, Pittsburg, Navy
If you don't think money (and by extension recruits and facilities) are the primary contributing factor to success college football, you're crazy.
I understand the desire to make money off the website. But I dont read the articles so I would likely go elsewhere to find my funny stories and community. I get 5 minutes here and there to read comments and use TKP to lighten the mood from medicine. As much as Id love to read the breakdown of plays and teams, its not how I use the site. I share on FB and tell others about the great articles and community and thats how I can give back until Im out of school.
If it goes paywall, I hope that Joe will keep the comments and articles not coming from payed staff for free.
I'll say this much. I've paid for other subscription based VT sports websites and when it came to renew, I knew I could either pay for the paywall website and be able to look at content there while getting the TKP for free or I could help out the TKP. I ended up putting my money here because I found myself on this website the most even when I did have access to other sites. I'd be hard pressed to find a community that has been integrated so well on TKP on another website which is the main reason I'm supporting it.
I'm not saying you should do the same but I honestly haven't found a website that provides this detailed of info along with the full on Hokie Nation interaction on another website.
Not a personal attack or anything, just sharing my experience when dealing with paywall websites.
I definitely understand the plight of recent graduates feeling tight on cash. I graduated in '14 and just recently became fiscally stable enough in my mind to give money to VT and TKP this month. If you can give, give. If not, that's ok too.
I just joined the site and the club because I can afford to and it's meaningful to other Hokies and I support all things Virginia Tech.
I don't mean to be a jerk by saying this, but as someone who just signed up today, I'd bet a lot of the people not paying fall into my category - I'm a repeat visitor, but this site isn't my community. I enjoy browsing because it's free and I can quickly see what's going on (with a new baby, I haven't even had time to watch most of the games and need to look up the scores after the fact). But there are only 2-3 sites total that I'd miss for more than a week if they disappeared. I'm an active community member at one site (non-sports), an occasional poster at a few more, and everything else is replaceable with something free. I joined TKPC because I didn't want something that other Hokies valued to disappear. Since I had to create an account, maybe I'll post occasionally now. This isn't a knock on how good the content is, but I suspect that like me, there're a lot of repeat visitors who are driven by habit and boredom and the fact that site addresses are autosaved after just one visit rather than because they're a lurking part of a community.
Welcome and I hope you post more. As someone who has a new baby, 7weeks, and three other kids this has become my outlet. But it's also a valuable resource, especially for someone like me who now lives outside VA.
TKPC Member #345. Keep it rolling Hokies. We want to have football like a big boy program we have to pony up like big boy program fans.
I have a few thoughts.
1. Again, apologies for the mixup, and thank you all for the feedback.
2. The Key Players Club has the best intentions of leveraging a benefactors group who is willing to pony up for the good of the community. The goal is TKPC helps keeps the lights and perhaps ultimately helps TKP hire its first full-time staff. However, the size of the group is well under where I thought it would be at this point (very successful football season, excellent content) based on unique people and associated demographics. And that sucks. Ultimately that may cause me to pivot on the strategy. I like to iterate when solving problems. Making an article here-or-there only available to TKPC members might be a good temporary balance and help get more people in the door. I'd love it everyone could read for free (that's why TKP has been free), because I empathize with the student and debt problems many of y'all have. However, this football season really burned me out. (I've never been happy for college football season to end, yet here I am.) I desperately want a trained, well versed writer with boots on the ground who can make delivering top-notch content to TKP her/his No. 1 priority so I can focus on the business-side of TKP. I look at the folks at 11W who went from one, to two, to X full-time positions with a similar model and they cover Ohio State athletics better than anyone else on the internet. I would like to deliver that to Virginia Tech fans.
3. I think there are two large groups of folks out there: those who could afford/would join TKPC but don't know about it and those could afford TKPC but won't until push comes to shove. The best way to catch their attention might be TKPC restriction on a highly desired article here or there.
4. Developing a monthly subscription plan is not an option I am willing to invest in right now. I do not have the time to code it up. More importantly, the folks who could squeeze in $7 / month is not who TKPC needs to target. Pay your loans, get out of debt. (Sidebar: I've learned there's a great market out there for a budgeting assistant.)
5. When something changes, I'll be sure to communicate it properly.
The scare of losing out on an article got us what 13 new members, so doing TKPC content might get some people off the fence. I also want to thank Joe AGAIN for this site and everything it has meant to me. Hokie fans and VT athletics itself owes you a debt. Without this site and it's content I'm not a season ticket holder or Hokie Club member, don't get my research paper done and probably don't go to ND game. So thank you joe.
I'm honestly curious what you (and people on both sides of the fence) think about the idea I had up-post regarding temporary restricted access. Is it something you think could help push those on or near the fence to pony up? Is it something students who can't currently afford the membership are willing to concede? Does it sound enticing enough to those who haven't joined but are financially stable enough to do so? It's an idea that I think could use some refinement but I also think it's an idea both sides can come to agree on. What are everyone's thoughts?
All that being said, I want to echo what Fireman has said in thanking Joe. This is hands-down the best place on the whole entire interwebs and that is all thanks to Joe. I too have become a bigger fan of VT athletics and I am now a far more knowledgeable football/basketball/baseball/wrestling/fencing/soccer fan than I ever was before. That is unmistakably due to the incredible content and coverage found only on TKP.
Thank you Joe.
I hope we can find a way to keep TKP on and get you back to enjoying football season rather than dreading the long slog through it.
I have literally relegated safari to my unused app group on my iphone. The direct link to the TKP tracker is on my main screen. That's how much I love this site.
It's a very interesting idea. However, I don't think it would have the same effect. A lot of folks don't read the minute an article is published anyways. Although, it's something I will keep in mind. At the end of the day I wish it was a perfect world and I had a money tree, and while I hope it's not the route I want to go down, not being able to read a film review every month-or-so would not be the end of the world for anyone.
All good points . I like the idea of making certain articles only available for subscribers. It really makes sense from your standpoint.
Do what ya gotta do, Joe... 7 or 8 months into TKPC's existence and we're at only 34% of your stated goal. The grass roots effort failed, and more alarmingly, the scare that we might see some content go behind a paywall increased existing funding by nearly 10%. You should never finish a year where we had the success on the field that we did with the feeling of just being glad its over.
For those who are complaining about the possibility of this being implemented, I hope you take the time and try to understand where Joe is coming from. Running this site and dealing with us isn't easy.
All good points . I like the idea of making certain articles only available for subscribers. It really makes sense from your standpoint.
Guilty! Even though I never saw the lockout, it still pushed me into finally subbing.