Virginia Tech wants the Hokie Club to be the largest fundraising group in the ACC. The athletics department and Whit Babcock announced on Monday the launch of the "Drive for 25" campaign to grow the Virginia Tech Athletic Fund to 25,000 members. If that lofty goal is reached, the Hokie Club – at approximately 11,000 members – would eclipse the clubs at Clemson and Florida State which are shy of 25,000 members.
Babcock on asking for donations at Tech: "We've been a little bit afraid to ask, but we're not afraid to ask (anymore)." #Hokies— Norm Wood (@normwood) December 12, 2016
Babcock said #Hokies' athletic budget of $80 million has fallen to 10th out of 15 ACC schools and 40th among Power 5 schools.— Norm Wood (@normwood) December 12, 2016
The money raised will primarily support the cost of scholarships.
Babcock said 300 scholarships for 500 athletes on campus costs $14.5 million right now. #Hokies— Norm Wood (@normwood) December 12, 2016
Frank Beamer will serve as the spokesperson for the Drive for 25.
Beamer: "I'm sure you all want us to beat Clemson and Louisville and Florida State, but we've got to beat them here [donations]." #Hokies— Norm Wood (@normwood) December 12, 2016
Babcock envisioned a target monthly per donor amount of $25.
OK, just asked Whit on the side. Minimum donation for Hokie Club is $100 for the year. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) December 12, 2016
Comments
Drive for 25 micro site
The Micro site has some really great - direct info. Being ranked 10th and 11th in the ACC in Donor Participation and Scholarship Dollars Raised is shocking. As much love as there is for Hokie Nation, I would have expected us to be much higher.
Heres to watching this campaigns success.
This is not new news and shouldn't be shocking.
It's clear that while many here want to believe that a new coach, a few wins and a higher scoring offense would bring VT to recruiting and trophy shangri-la, Whit Babcock clearly knows the real score.
Money - above all else and more than ever - is what drives long term college football success.
Money is a necessary ingredient, but it's not the only factor.
See: Texas; Notre Dame
Affiliation with the P5 is pretty key these days. Money is key in attracting a good coach and in building good facilities. VT has done a great job of doing more with less, both in terms of money and recruiting. I think you can make a decent case that they'll need both of those to go to the next level, though.
Texas won a national championship in 2005 (and lost in 2009). Notre Dame lost one to Alabama in the 2012 season.
They are down this year, but I'd take those results as a tradeoff for a couple down years.
edit: to be clear, I absolutely do agree it's not the only factor.
1000x this. We already punch well above our weight class (At least in football, starting to look that way in basketball too) for the amount of money floating around the Athletic department.
Hopefully this works. We desperately need to grow the Hokie Club, and we desperately need to break it away from "donate so you can buy football tickets". I'm not quite sure how this breaks it away from the football tickets issue, but hopefully they have a bunch of tricks and incentives under their sleeves to help Hokie Club fundraising to be something that the masses take pride in and want to be a part of.
Any word on what the minimum per month is? I have heard conflicting reports of 100/year vs 25/month.
My understanding is that the "goal" is at least 25/month but that isn't the minimum.
Whit asked for $25/month but the screen graphics during his remarks said the minimum was $8/month. Basically you can join the Hokie Club and support VT for $1/month more than a TKP membership.
Which further illustrates how much of a bargain TKPC is!
Both TKP and Hokie Club membership are great ways to support VT.
Well shit based on number of member we got to join TKPC this effort isn't looking great. But seriously what is it with Hokie fans and Virginians in particular? This isn't the first school or group I've been apart of where you can't get people to give back some money. My high school sits near bottom of private school alum donations.
I will give my just recently graduated, in student loan up to my eye balls, have a decent paying job, perspective to your what is it with Hokie fans and Virginians questions. The motivation to donate to the school that just put me in debt $40,000 isn't high. It'll probably take me many years to be financially capable to donate a decent amount to VT athletics and to buy season tickets. If you're a recent graduate like myself then you're trying to save every dollar you can. Students coming out of college aren't making that much money and the cost of living isn't going down. So it's hard to justify throwing more money at a college.
All of that being said, I understand that if you want the best product you have to pay for it. I truly enjoy seeing our athletics program succeed and would love to donate and see that success continue. I want VT to continue to be an upper echelon university. I just probably won't be able to donate for awhile. I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself and I'm sure you understand this and can relate. I just wanted to answer your what is it with Hokie fans and Virginians question.
Translation
via GIPHY
Preach. Take that number, multiply it by 5, then you've got the cost of my wife's vet school loan.
Sheeeit.
That said, I think it's important to establish a culture of those that can afford to, donating as early as possible. But the key sequence there is "as possible." Not everyone is ready to donate right away. It's also important to note that while smaller donations from younger alumni add up over time and through volume, it's also key to land the 40-50 year olds that have had time to establish a higher paying job, build up their company, pay off their debts, etc that can swing big checks back to the athletic department. For example, I went to Clemson, and if everyone that I graduated with that I personally know, donated the minimum to IPTAY, it would still be less than the individual contributions of few people I know through work/life/friends etc who are 40-50 year old men that drop BIG ASS checks to IPTAY every year, and that's just a few people a random 24 year old happens to know. The overall number of guys dropping those big checks is obviously much, much higher.
I'm right there with you. New graduate, 50k or more in debt. Financially can't justify giving more money to the school, as much as I want to. You're not alone.
Yep, I'm joining HC soon, but as a 2012 graduate I'm still trying to assess just how much I can put forward, and it'll probably be the minimum or close to it.
I don't even have any student loans now, but I do have a mortgage and upkeep on a house and plenty of other expenses. Putting down the cash to attend all the home games this year stretched me enough as it was, adding a sizable donation is just hard to swallow. If I were in student loan debt hell, there is no way I'd consider it.
9 years out and this still applies to me!
It's really about financial priorities. You can't justify giving $8 a month to Hokie sports, because you have higher priority uses for that money. When you are a new graduate, your first priority should rightfully be reducing your debt and building a stable financial foundation for yourself.
That being said, most people probably spend more than $100 a year on stupid shit they don't need, Lord knows I do. The Hokie Club and the Key Players' Club really are a good parallel comparison. You don't have to pay anything to enjoy Hokie sports or TKP, but if it's important to you to support them, then it's not that hard to come up with the money. One less trip to Chick-fil-a a month will cover it.
Hell, I know I did as undergrad too. The amount of parties, alcohol, and other stuff I may or may not have inhaled*, I'm sure I wasted at least $50 a month. True, gotta have some fun, but yea definitely wasted money.
And I still waste money. Too lazy to cook, let's just eat out. Brunch on Sunday, let's get $20 bottomless mimosas, because what else is there to do. Do I need the Google Pixel, or is the $200 Huawei phone adequate?
*Note: The stuff I may or may not have inhaled is now legal in my current state of California. It's funny, even though it's completely legal now, I have no interest. Growing up is weird.
Oxygen?
California is weird
That, too, is known to the State of California to cause cancer.
also birth defects and reproductive harm.
Oxygen has a 100% fatality rate. Anybody who inhales it will die.
You are asking the wrong question. The question is what's wrong with the giving strategy put out by your old high school and/or the Hokie Club. What does the donor get, besides a tax write off, that is of value to them. I've said this on here before and will keep saying it. The Hokie Club was lazy and the only real benefit was getting season tickets. For those who couldn't or didn't want to go to games there was no reason to join.
I think Whit gets this concept thus the overhaul. I like that he created a "football only" giving club (http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2016/august/22/virginia-tech-creates-f...) and is making the new Hokie Club re-branding about the student athletes, but it will take time for the effects of the overhaul to set it with potential donors.
I can tell you that blaming potential donors for not giving is the best way for people not to give. Good thing that Whit gets this part.
A successful football program?
I don't think shaming people into donating is the right way to do it, but the main reasons other schools have lots of donors is that they care about their football/basketball teams doing well. Alabama doesn't have a huge donor base and tons of booster money because of the intricacies and perks of their donating program, they have that money because they know it's being used to put a better product on the field. To pay Nick Saban 7-9m(?) a year for a HC who is arguably the best of all time and pay their staff heavily as well. LSU donors pay in big bucks so that they can attract the best coordinators in the country with the largest assistant salary base in college football. That's the perk.
...and that's how Whit is positioning it now. Actually he's positioning it as better athletics across the board, but yes you are correct.
The issue before, and the image that Whit has to shed now, is that the messaging was all about joining to get tickets. I expect that we will see the numbers go up as this takes hold. Whit's background is in fundraising so he gets it. You have to make people feel "special" about it if you want them to give. Up until now the only way they made you feel that way was by getting better seats.
This ^
Besides my not-really-a-commitment commitment to not donating until we stop playing ECU, I, for one, will rarely-if-ever want tickets to just about any game we play in. The only game I've been to since graduating in '05 was ND this year, and I bought tickets through ND. The whole 'earning points' thing doesn't resonate with me at all.
I've never heard of any donating program where the quality of your seats/parking isn't based on how much money you give. I realize not everyone wants/needs seats, I'm with you guys that couldn't realistically make it every week, and I think it's important to make sure that the message is relayed to your donor base that the money is to make the sports better, as opposed to JUST for football tickets, but that is always going to be part of it.
And I think a big issue that arose the past few years that are being addressed now is what happens if that's the stated goal, and all the fundraising being done translates to a team that stumbles its way through .500 ball on the field losing to the likes of ECU regularly? A formula like that is destined to crumble at the first signs of a crack in the dam, and what we're trying to do is distance ourselves from it. Its why we saw Hokie Club numbers begin to dwindle over the last few years, because the mindset leads to the "well, if the team isn't good, why give my money" thinking which can be severely damaging to the athletic dept as a whole. That's why we're rebranding the Hokie Club to be about the betterment and support of the Student Athletes as a whole, and not to make football better.
As someone who didn't get season tickets to football until this year I never viewed the Hokie Club as a primary reason to get tickets. I viewed it as a way to support Hokie Sports that I enjoy. Whether that be in person or at home on the TV.
Based off the numbers it is apparent that you were the exception under the old regime.
The numbers were like this when Tech was playing for a NC, they were close to this when the only way to get season tickets was to be in the Hokie Club. There is something else at play here. The stat that stands out to me is total giving to ANY part of the university is at 4% of living alumni, that mean 96% of living alums don't give to academics, athletics, the band or anything else associated officials with Tech. That is an issue a rather large one.
The HC numbers are similar because, until yesterday, most potential donors only thought of joining the HC if they wanted tickets. The old messaging and branding was ringing true. Weaver, for all the good he did, was a horrible fundraiser and used the lowest denominator (tickets) to get people in the door. That strategy stopped working when we people realized we peaked in 99/00.
The issue goes WAY beyond the Hokie Club. According to VT, only 4%of alums give to any aspect of the school. That means a whopping NINETY SIX percent of alums don't give to academics, athletics or other worthwhile groups on campus like the and or scholarships. This is clearly an issue of Hokie alumni not giving back. So I'll ask again why is it that Hokies can't/won't give in numbers that other universities get? Why can't the Hokie Club grow? Why can't the band fund scholarships? Why can't the Key Players Club get members?
This is a good conversation. I'm in the target demo. Let me inject another point.
I live in Augusta Co, VA. I read an article years ago about kids who didn't like Fridays, because they knew the weekend was coming. And except for free school breakfast and lunch, they didn't know where their next steady meals were coming from. So the local Blue Ridge Area Food Bank started a backpack program where they send home food with the kids every Friday.
That is something I got behind immediately and have been putting most of my charitable cash. Helping my neighbors.
How can let a kid be hungry to support the university that I love so very much? I just can't reconcile it. For me, it is priority.
Again, this is good stuff. I appreciate hearing such thoughtful comments.
Again complelty understand people either not being able to give or giving to other programs but why does VT fall so far behind its peers in percent of alums who give to the school and total amount given by the ones who do donate?
See now you are asking productive questions instead of making blanket statements blaming the entirety of Virginia and Hokie alums. The issue you are seeing is a cultural one. When I graduated in '04 there was no culture around giving back to to school. Quite frankly I just paid a boatload of money to get have the privilege of earning a VT degree. Why should I turn around and donate more money? What benefits do I, as the individual donor, get? Those questions were never addressed or answered when I graduated. If you want people to give money you HAVE to give them a reason. That reason can't just be "because". The organization has to realize that they are competing for every dollar they want donated. Why should I spend $25/month on the HC when I can instead use that money to buy a Netflix subscription? What value am I getting for that? Factor in that your major alumni base is one of the most expensive places to live in America and the competition for every dollar is even more severe.
I think you view this issue through your eyes and fail to zoom out to see the bigger picture. As I said before, if the issue is that only 4% of people are giving back, then it's an issue with the organization. It's ok to be critical of something we all love. VT failed to create a culture of giving for both academics and athletics. Whit is trying to change that. I have no clue is Sands is as well.
One thing to lead off:
These are donations, they're gifts. It's not supposed to be quid pro quo. I won't tell anyone how to spend their money, but if your sole motivation to donate to HC is to get something, you're missing the point. Whit's appeal is that if you give, you should have pride in the fact that you're helping others at your school. Yeah, you get a nifty HC pin and all, but it's not about "what am I now getting because I helped?"
Factor in a few more things and I think we're close to an answer:
1. The culture of VT athletics, and VT writ large, has for years been a scrappy underdog that no one thinks much of initially, but with a blue-collar work ethic we can overachieve. So for years, there was stagnation because yeah, we were doing more with less. We were winning on the field and innovating in the classroom and lab. Dr. Steger realized years ago that our funding profile was diminishing, so he put an emphasis on investing in research areas that could attract $$$ and he had a lot of success, as well as initiating the billion-dollar fundraising campaign. Dr. Sands has been energetic in these endeavors, as well.
2. Look at the economy over the last 10 years or so. The donor base that existed before that was where they were because they were older and had money to donate. The younger alumni were facing a different economic reality. When sh!t hit the fan in 2008, students went in droves into college and grad school on the backs of federal loans because (1) there were few job opportunities otherwise and (2) their parents had probably lost much of their retirement accounts when the stock market crashed so financial support from family diminished. So you have a whole generation that is largely in debt through no real fault of their own other than doing what we were all told - get an education and get a good job. We hid out in school when the economy tanked and there's a trade-off for that choice. Our student loan payment is the sole reason we have not progressed in our lives. We pay just shy of $1000 a month to repay my wife's student loan bill, in addition to insane rent in MD (which was the only location that we could both find jobs coming out of school) and effectively we have no savings. Our incomes still could support a mortgage on a decent house but we can't put together a down payment. We are not unusual in this sense. What one should also look at in addition to total donors as a fraction of alumni is (1) how long they've been donating, (2) how much they donate per month, and (3) the distributions of those numbers. Perhaps a lot of schools have long-tenured donors (e.g. people that graduated when the economy was good and are pretty well set) or larger numbers of small-dollar donors (e.g. those of us who are in bad shape generally but still find the ability to expend a few extra bucks).
We are at a point where we could probably spare some extra cash each month and I am considering an entry-level donation to the HC because I love VT and the athletics program. But I know for the last couple years, my broke ass ate a lot of Ramen. I know I'm not alone.
What I can't figure out is why other schools with similar alumni bases or sometimes smaller are doing better, not great, but have higher percent of total alumni giving and the ones that give, give more per person. Is VT not turning out the same high end support that other schools are? Is the sense of giving back to support others not there? What is the missing key at VT that other schools have figured out?
Neither one of these responses addresses hokiefireman's question. They only serve as more excuses to beg the question even more.
There is nothing - I repeat, nothing - unique about the VT alumni base's situation that inherently prevents it from giving at the levels comparable to its aspirational peers.
But why is the culture different? Tech isn't drawing from a different population base than other in state schools or schools in NC,MD, they I assume turn out highly educated and motivated people who find jobs in their degree fields, they have some degree fields that are in the upper portion of salary potential. So what makes Tech different than UVA, VCU, MD, ODU, JMU, NCST?
That's the $1M question. I don't have the time to dig into all those other school's and see what their donation numbers are, but if I were in charge of the fundraising for VT I'd look up the numbers and find out which public universities are the best at it and go talk to them. It could be as simple as putting the idea in the heads of current students from the time they step foot onto campus or maybe it's something much more complex.
I honestly believe that it really is that simple. It never really occurred to me to give money to VT. I give money to the Corps of Cadets because I know that is an organization that means a lot to me, and they need the money. VT sports mean a lot to me, but it was never really made clear to me when I was a student or recent graduate that they need donations. I think better education of students and alumni regarding the cost of operating VT athletics and where that money comes from will motivate more people to give.
A certain percentage of people will never give no matter what. Likewise, some will donate without being prompted because it's important to them. The alumni that Whit needs to get in touch with are the vast majority of folks who fall somewhere between those two ends of the spectrum. I think this new fundraising effort is a good start. It really is a cultural shift and those take time, but instilling the idea that giving back to Hokie sports is valuable and rewarding for all alumni needs to happen, IMO.
I've wondered about this myself, and the best hypothesis I've come up with gets down to mindset of the donor base. Donating money to an organization is a decision based on emotion, not logic. People give to a cause because they believe it's important. Some familiar refrains of non-Hokie Club members have been "Why should I donate?", "What do I get back (esp if I can't come to games)?", "Why should I give <$x> when that same <$X> could get me ?" The common thread in all those questions is looking at a Hokie Club donation as as a transaction (I give you $ for something of value) rather than as a actual donation (I give you $ because I support you). The fact that a lot of Tech alumni are engineers (myself included), who by nature are more analytical/logical in their thought process rather than emotional, probably feeds into this even more. And frankly, for a long time, the Hokie Club fueled that mindset since there was no messaging about reasons for giving to the Hokie Club outside of getting priority for football and basketball tickets.
What the Hokie Club has been trying to do this year with the Hokie Scholarship Fund and the Drive for 25 is important because they are trying to reframe the conversation and make it about giving because you support the organization, not because you expect something of value in return.
There is a very strong financial/analytical reason to donate, based on US tax policy. There is a reason why virtually every major company has a matching donation. It's not because they're just gosh-darn nice people and making decisions on emotion, it's because the tax code is written that you can give your money to charity or give your money to Uncle Sam.
If you're in a 25% tax bracket and itemizing deductions, when you give $100 to a charity, you're actually only spending $75. $25 will be deducted from your taxes. Thus, when one chooses to donate $100, they are choosing to give $75 of their dollars and $25 of Uncle Sam's dollars. For corporations, at 40% tax rate, this implies giving $60 of their dollars and $40 of Uncle Sam's for every $100 donated.
Of course, if you're not itemizing, then none of this matters. The benefits of owning a home are huge in this country. Tax wise and equity wise.
Yeah, I'm one of the weirdos who has been itemizing since before I bought a house. I wouldn't exactly say taxes are a strong incentive to donate-- you're winding up with less money in your pocket than if you didn't donate, so there still needs to be some other incentive in the first place-- but I agree, it is nice to be able to get some back in your tax return.
I have a call with my accountant at the end of the year to talk through my tax position and how much I should give back to the school. For me, I'm going to donate in either case, so the tax incentive is that each additional $1 the scholarship program gets only costs me $.68. So correct, it doesn't not influence whether or not I would donate, but influences how much.
I think #1 was an attempt at an answer. To really answer the question, I think what needs to be looked at is:
Yes, VT lags in overall numbers, but how do we compare in these metrics? Seriously, I think this matters. There's stagnation among our recent alumni and that is obvious, but is this happening in other schools? If not, what are they doing differently? I think that's a more targeted question.
I'm an alumnus of more than one P5 program, and I can tell you that VT is far behind OU in terms of making contact with alumni.
I think the steps Whit has been taking are in the correct direction, though.
OU is far more aggressive in making contact, and their focus is much more about supporting the university than it is about any kind of tangible benefit.
This is why fundraising comes up short. You have to sell donors on the pride that they will have from it. I'm not saying you need to mail people a life sized stuffed Hokie bird as a thank you, BUT you HAVE to sell the feeling or the intangible benefit that the donor will receive. Selling that feeling, and making it a movement, is how you create a culture.
You can choose not to believe me on this point, but look around the fundraising world these days. The organizations that do it the best either 1) have a culture around it and/or 2) doing a great job of selling you on the "good deed" you are doing with those dollars.
I agree with everything else you have said but it just further illustrates the point that there is competition for every dollar an organization wants you to give to them.
I think there's definitely a messaging/marketing effort that needs to be done, absolutely. Sell me on the sense of pride, put up videos online and commercials during games (in stadium and on TV) that make me nostalgic for VT and remind me of Ut Prosim. If they can pull that off, they'll be in good shape. But I'm seeing a lot of crap from people (especially on Twitter) that they want "stuff" in exchange for their donation. They're missing the point.
Gotcha, I thought you were commenting more locally on my post. I don't twitter, but I'm not surprised that that is the reaction there.
Yeah, the "what do I get?" question can go a number of different directions. Some people want to have their asses kissed in order to get money. Some want swag. Some just want the pride of knowing that they've helped someone else. Whit's trying to get more people in that last category. Now it's up to him and Coach Beamer to sell people on it.
My experience has been limited to TKP and the Hokie Club, but I'm not getting a good vibe based on those two experiences. They both should easily meet their goals based on statistics but we are far short on both. It clouds my judgment wen talking about fundraising.
Fundraising is a very complicated business. If you look at non-profit organizations, some of their highest paid employees are the fundraisers. There is a reason for that.
Well, if you give enough money you get your ass kissed. There's a reason that Worsham gets to run out onto the field before every game and gets carted around on his own golf cart. The swag issue can be worked. I bet if they threw in a nice hoodie or jacket at a certain donation level (where it made sense for them financially) then people who would were on the fence might consider jumping up. I agree that Whit is targeting the "take pride in your school" approach. With his background in fundraising I assume that he thinks it will be the most effective.
Telling that one of the larger donors is a non alum. Is there an accurate list out there of high earning (multi millionaire) who are Tech grads?
I think Wes Worsham is a pretty special case.
But of the 250,000 alums non of them can match his giving?
I'm not making excuses for anyone, I'm just saying the fact that Wes Worsham cares about Tech as much as he does as a non-alum is a special case.
And this is where the real battle lies, because the people he's trying to speak to and who he's trying to reach out to right now have grown up in an environment where a hefty portion end up resenting the university they get their degree from after they're done. From the constant harping on the fact that athletes aren't paid and the growing belief in society they should be, to the growing cost of tuition and the unbelievably high levels of Student Debt that outgoing seniors have, and the focus that society has placed on this over the previous years, the University system has been labeled as outright villains, and many have gobbled this up. Not only this, but once someone falls into the belief that athletes should be paid, or they themselves are straddled with 5 to 6 figures worth of Student Debt, its downright insulting to them when the university comes begging for more money.
And this is where I think college athletics is about to see a massive bubble burst. The younger generation is going to end up telling these schools to 'fuck off' across the board, and these booster club funds, that they have grown so accustomed to bankrolling everything through, are going to dry up, except for the few big money donors who decide to fund everything.
I applaud Whit and our administration for what they're trying to do, but I am largely afraid it will fall on deaf ears. Alumni are stretched too thin as it is. We missed our main opportunity to get our athletic endowments about 15-20 years ago before the market crashed and the cost of tuition skyrocketed. Now, you have young alumni who exit college with far more financial strain than the previous generations ever did, and a stagnant job market preventing the growth needed to get themselves out of it. The Hokie Club's biggest downfall is that it failed so miserably on capitalizing the 1999 season. Had we had our shit together back then, we likely aren't in this shitshow of a position now.
I figured I'll chip in my anecdotal two cents. Not sure if it will answer your question.
I graduated 10 years ago with no student debt (Thanks Mom and Dad). I gave some initially to Pamplin and the general fund etc. But most of my peers were pretty pissed because here they are getting hit up for money when most are saddled some daunting student debt and trying figure out how to afford NOVA rents. Jump two years after graduating, I got married to a Hokie whose loans we are still paying on. And I asked myself why am I going to help fund someone else's education when I am still paying for hers? Our charitable dollars are fairly limited, so most of it stays closer to home and for things that yield that feel "good feeling."
In a few years I'm hoping we can loosen our belts some and be more generous, but even then giving money to VT or any higher education institute for that matter, will still be a tough sell. I just pulled up what tuition for this year and compared to spring 06 when I graduated. In state tuition for 8 semesters now costs $23000 more, out of state is 44,000 more. That is just tuition, I didn't compare fees and room & board. If someone from VT can look me in the eye with a straight face and tell me that the value of VT education has increased that much in 10 years, I might consider it. Even if they could convince me I would probably still be more likely to drop that money in my kids college fund. I realize this a problem with our entire higher education system and VT is just playing the game. I won't dive much deeper into this as it could quickly swing into politics. But at the end of day feeding the higher ed bubble is far down on my priority lists.
This! Costs for a VT (and every other school's) education has dramatically increased over the last ten years. For what? To hire more administrators, provide better food, and build nicer buildings? That is about the only difference I can see from the outside. I have been a HC member since the day I graduated, but at a very low level. I am now preparing to pay for college for my kids and frankly, it is overwhelming. Our entire education system is a bubble, you are exactly correct, and one of these days it is going to burst. The federal education loan tax, errr I mean system has broken everything. Athletics donations are just one of the things that are going to get pinched.
Less money from state government means students/parents have to make up the difference. And yes better facilities to attract the best students and their money.
That's one take.
The other take is that the Federal government made lots of money available in the form of subsidized loans. With more money available, and fewer constraints on costs (after all, people can borrow the money, and people want the best for their kids), schools spent more on athletics, facilities, faculty, and administrators. Schools had to spend more in order to stay competitive. More available money makes costs go UP, not down. It's a compelling argument to borrow money, after all, what's your future worth?
In real terms, has university spending gone up or down? If the problem were mostly the reduction in state funding, you'd think that spending would have gone down.
Ignore me please
An objective statement of fact is not political and I think we can handle it. There are important and salient issues about university financing that are of interest to a lot of people on these boards, and things that people may not know.
Now, if anyone starts down the "It's all [insert politician or political party]'s fault, that/those [colorful adjective] [expletive]! They can take their [body part] and shove it up their [other body part] with an [exotic animal] right now!" then all that will happen is
Edit: Y'know what, I'm going back and deleting these. You can probably guess what I said from the responses. No, it wasn't negative. It was an overreaction on a small scale.
Sorry gang. Keep Buggering On :D
It's a good point, but from previous conversations with people here, the community has lots of people with interesting perspectives on higher education. I'd hate to stifle any of that if we're conflating "policy" with "politics." Good to be on the lookout though, the community is best moderated by its own members.
There's a pinch on grants, too. Federal money accounts for 90% of university research dollars, and success rates of those grants have plunged from about 33-40% in the early- to mid-90s to less than about 15% today (10% or less in some fields). University overhead from each grant is on the order of 65% for NIH and NSF proposals. So remember when the university announces that "Professor Awesome has just received a $1M grant from the NIH!" it really means "the university is getting $650k and that professor has to fund a huge project with a lot less than is probably necessary." Fewer grants coming in (due to federal budget reductions) mean less overhead for the university and costs get passed elsewhere.
I've read a good bit on this topic and think your take is on point. I forget the exact statistic, but there was a study done that compared federal loan dollars to tuition costs, and it was something along the lines of tuition goes up $1 for 50 cents of federal aid available. We have yet to reach the point where people are willing to forgo the cost of attending college, and so the upward trend continues.
Two other things to add on:
In addition to being competitive, pricing tuition is also a function of a free economy. People associate price with quality: if something costs more, the general assumption is it must be higher quality. This applies to everything from clothes to cars to education. You do not want to price your product lower than peers with a similar product for fear of appearing to be lower quality.
Very few students pay the "sticker price" for college. Between scholarships, loans, work-study programs, etc. the price gets reduced in a variety of ways (some that come out of scholarship endowments, some you pay with your time, and some you pay down the road). This plays into pricing as well. Take a school with an actual cost of about $25k per year per student. The school may set tuition at $30k and give an average of $5k in scholarships per student. As silly as it sounds, people would rather say they got into a $30k/year school and received $5k in scholarships than say they got into a $25k/year school and received $0 in scholarships.
However I believe that same study didn't or couldn't conclude a direct causal link. There were too many factors for them to conclude that hypothesis. Other factors included
IIRC they studied the short term, but were unable to conclude if there would be any long term balancing out of these factors.
Also throw into the mix that there are different types of colleges/universities - the 4 year public universities, the 4 year private universities, the 2 year public, the for-profits, etc. Each are affected/react differently.
So its a tough nut to crack but as Forbes put it, "Does Federal Student Aid Cause Tuition Increases? It Certainly Enables Them" (http://www.forbes.com/sites/akelly/2015/10/08/does-federal-student-aid-c...)
Edited to add:
Oh but it seems all the research does show that increasing Fed dollars leads to an almost 1 for 1 decrease in the university grants-in-aid. So in your example, that $5k would now come from Fed instead of the university.
Not an alumni, but I'm going to try to do the $100 option. It's the least I could do for a school I love so much. I'd give more, but just graduating college and starting a new job... Yeah.
Edit: Done! Go win a national championship now please.
The same, Hokiegirl -I had the fortune of best friends attending/graduating from the school(s) and I visited frequently (I'm a VCU art school dropout, full disclosure) losing a few chunks up and down Clay Street. I then later-in-life worked as an IT consultant on campus whilst "Wife 1.0" did her PhD there, living off University City Blvd.
During that time, I went to all kinds of games, abused the bus system, ate waaay too much at Mike's (and sadly 100 too many "1/2 price Hindy's" at MacAdoos) rode all over the New River Valley on my bicycle(s) and am an East Coasters alumn as well... I'm engrained in the culture of Blacksburg. And I am a Hokie, through and through.
This year, I'm going to become a Hokie Club member.
It would interesing to see how many of the 11,000 Hokie club members have season tickets to the football games. I would suspect it is somewhere in the 90%. The program needs to expand beyond a means to get football tickets. I hope it is succesful because being ranked so low low in the ACC is aa little disappointing.
A little disappointing is an understatement. We have won as many ACC championships since we joined the ACC as FSU and one more than Clemson, and we have 2-4% of our living alumni donating to the athletic department and have twice as few donors as both of those schools. We were spoiled by Beamer doing more with less for so long, and to remain relevant, fans need to step up and put the money down needed to put a great product on the field year in and year out.
Agreed, it was a big understatement.
Looking through the micro-site... Minimum level of donation to be in the Hokie Club is $100 per year, and the next level is at $250.
However, it looks like they have added a few levels beyond Diamond Hokie for people who want to give at levels between $15k and $50k per year, with additional perks associated with that.
One big thing to note, especially for the students on here. For ticket priority down the line, you get 5 priority points per year of being a Student Hokie Club member. For everyone else, you get 2 points for for every $100 of annual donation you give to the Hokie Club. You also get 5 priority points for every consecutive year you give to the HC, as well as 3 points for every season ticket you purchase. If you're a freshman and you give every year you're a student, you'll be graduating with enough priority points to legitimately have a chance for good seats right out of college. That has never happened before.
Furthermore, from the above update to the OP....
Which is $300 per year, and would make your donation level that of an 'Orange and Maroon Hokie'. If we met our annual goal of 25,000 donors at the $25 per month target, Whit is looking to get our annual Hokie Club donation level to about $7.5m per year Of course, our actual number would be much higher (we currently give $9.8m per year, according to the website), with a significant segment giving more than that, but that gives an idea on what we're looking to do with this. It actually shows that this is less about pure dollars earned, and more about getting donors in the door, and to grow the Hokie Club footprint, because if you can get people to take ownership and have a connection to VT through the HC, those donation levels will grow down the line and make us that much better in the end.
Bottom line is this... If we grow the Hokie Club to a membership of 25k, we'll have the financial backing to start acting like the powerhouse we know we can be.
An additional $7.5M/yr - while a good start and not insignificant - would not be nearly enough to start acting like a powerhouse. The number needs to be in the $30M+ range - and must include more sources of income besides HC donations.
Yeah, they completely overhauled the Hokie Club back in the spring and did a bunch of town halls. To your point, the priority point allocation as well as the ranking formula are changing for 2017. I highly recommend everyone reading that information if they haven't already. From talking to some friends recently, I realized a lot of them missed that memo back in the spring as most everyone's focus was on minimum seat donations (which is a related but entirely separate from your HC ranking).
They linked to the Hokie Scholarship Fund site on the Drive or 25 micro-site, but here's the direct link if anyone wants it.
If you want your team to compete with "the big boys", you have to actively support your team. Donating time and money, representing the university in a positive way, and serving your community are all good ways to do this.
I'm an out-of-state Hokie Club member. I've only been a member for 5 years or so. One thing that bugs me is that all of the membership benefits seem geared towards the local members (mostly: priority seating at events). However, it makes sense the way they have it set up, as the priority for seating is based on overall donations and length of membership in the club.
I wish there were some benefit they could give out-of-towners, but after giving it some thought I can't come up with any ideas that make more sense than what they've already done. It makes sense to reward longevity, season ticket holders, and donations.
I think Whit and the coaches are doing a great job. Greater participation in the scholarship fund, even at the lower levels, is important. I hope their efforts will ultimately generate more funds and participation.
To be fair, local members are expected to be HC members plus pay for season tickets. The costs add up.
I'm a distant HC member myself. And the only real benefits I get is the opportunity to buy postseason tickets and write off the donation on my taxes.
I agree.
Any indication of when ECU will be off the schedule? I'll set myself a reminder to join the Hokie Club once that happens.
To their credit, they scheduled Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame, and Tennessee in recent years.
EDIT: I know you're just kidding, but I love that they're scheduling great teams these days. I agree that they've WAY over-scheduled ECU, though.
I know your statement is tongue in cheek, but I hate statements like this. (the following statement is intended for the fan in general, absolutely not intended for you specifically, HOAT) If you're an alum or a fan and you're thinking of giving, don't hold your donation ransom for some thing you want to see happen. You'll always feel like shit when you give your money because you're always going to be looking for reasons to pull your support. If you want to give, give. If you don't, don't make up some arbitrary crap excuse to why you won't.
And another thing to remember. Hokie Club fundraising and Alumni giving fundraising are two completely different things, and both need your money.
Totally fair. I actually am withholding my donation until ECU is done, but this isn't typical HOATness, I tend to pay it forward on stuff but I'm so committed to this I have to wait. But I actually am using this as an arbitrary excuse, one that appears (at this point) to have a predetermined end date.
I do send the CoE $250 per year, so they got that going for them, which is nice.
Just as a side note, giving at the $100 level gives you "consecutive years of membership" points.
So you'd have priority when they finally schedule someone other than ECU...
Also, remember it's just not the football team that's affected. What about our #6 ranked wrestling team? Or our basketball programs on the rise?
Stupid Question(s): Does it matter what we select when picking the allocation? Is the Scholarship Fund option the most all-encompassing?
You can donate to anything you'd like, but the only fund that counts towards priority points for football/basketball seating & parking priority is the Hokie Scholarship Fund.
Thanks, I've officially joined.
As long as it helps.
I upped my donation level this year to the Hokie Club. I hope others do the same, and more importantly can help attract others to the Hokie Club. This is a great start to get to where we need to be.
EDIT: Here is a link to the 2017 Benefits - it has a ton of information about the HC and outlines the overall changes very well.
Just joined the Hokie Club... great to see a focused approach to broaden the donor base, and happy to do my small part.
Congratulations!
Also, credit to Whit, along with Fuente and Williams.
Their plan is working.
I had been planning to re-up this year so this was a good reminder. Actually ended up upping my donation level but I would love to know why they set the minimum donation to $100. I feel like a minimum one-time donation of $25 would have fit the moniker and helped to get more on board quickly.
The $100 minimum has been the minimum level for awhile. As part of this "Drive for 25" I'm a little surprised they didn't create a "new member" level at $50 or something that allows you to join at a reduced level for your first year, and then requires you to bump up in Year 2. Maybe they decided that would be too confusing, especially for people who do monthly recurring donations.
I would join but it keeps throwing null pointer exceptions when I try to log in.
Same here
Ditto.
Not sure if this is your issue, but if you're trying to login to the hokieclub.donornetpac.com site and it's your first time on that page, make sure you use the middle section ("First Time Here?"), not the "Returning Member with Login" section. You can't just login with your normal ticket office login.
Same.
I ran into this issue the first time I tried to login as well, and I think it had to do with the backslash ( / ) on my date of birth. So I went back and changed the backslash to a dash ( - ) and then it worked.
That's the problem? That's really poor. And I am now kind of screwed at this point.
I created an account that Hokie Club recognizes, but I can't access because they didn't consider that people might use a backslash when entering their date of birth.
Used a former email of mine to see if that fixed it and it didn't work for me.
Ok thanks for doing all the hard work. Now I know to just wait for the bug to be fixed.
As a software quality engineer, I find this face-palmingly-poorly-tested.
You really should be grading our group project instead of posting your favorite pic on TKP Professor Zobel
Will now wonder if everyone who legged this actually got the joke.
via GIPHY
I got the "drop tables" but now wondering if a simple SQL injection gets thrown in there, and the next thing I know I'm hosting parties in a suite at Lane and rocking the Worsham pants collection...
careful, that is a slippery slope. A leg for your journey though!
that's why explain xkcd exists. For those comics where Randall drifts from general nerd-dom into CS specific and way over my head but I'm sure it's still funny nerd-dom.
Please... Any competent Developer knows you QA in Prod. That way you can make your bonus review goals and pass your incompetent dev'ing to the QA and Ops people for them to solve.
You have to have job security, amirite?
Issue should be fixed, try now :)
I have piggybacked onto the girlfriend's membership because she has accrued more points (joined when in school). Together we give more than we did individually.
I think I will rejoin individually (at the minimum) to help with the 25k goal. Dumb question, is there any way to combine membership benefits of two separate accounts?
I believe they will combine accounts, but you'd need to call or email the Hokie Club for them to do this on the back-end of the system. Also make sure to consider in your personal situation if it makes sense or not, because once the accounts have been combined, they will not undo it.
If anyone cares, accounts can be combined if the other person is your spouse.
I rejoined at $100 to help the drive, but the better contribution will go into the girlfriend's membership as there are some points built up. One day we will combine them
The importance of a VT scholarship. This is also a sick burn.
So what you're saying is...
Savage
Sorry for perhaps a dumb question, but what exactly is the Bowman Room all about? All I can glean from the Google machine is that it's in Jamerson and open to Hokie Club members.
In reality, I have no idea, but I like to think it is the most awesome place to enjoy a whisky and a cigar before every game
Funny you should say that -- I tweeted that question to Whit earlier today; I'll post back when I get an answer
Edit... and here's the answer:
They usually send out an invite to HC members in the summer with RSVP information for pregame meals in the Bowman Room for football. I want to say its $25/person, but I've never gone. I believe they do it for men's basketball as well.
I've been once before the spring game. Coach Beamer and a couple of the other head coaches of the other VT sports teams spoke and then they had a short Q & A. They probably do more than just that, but that's the only time I've gone.
Did a little bit of investigating, and it looks like the Bowman Room is part of the renovation plans on Merryman over the next few years
That's pretty sweet and a nice perk.
The Bowman room also serves meals before basketball games. The media meal is sectioned off on one side, the fancy donors have the rest of the room (and better desserts).
So the scholarship fund is the only option that counts towards priority points for football/basketball seating & parking priority. Are there incentives to choose other options?
The scholarship fund helps pay for student athlete scholarships. Where does the school get money for salaries, travel costs, equipment costs, and facilities costs? Other donation options that don't contribute to seating/parking priority?
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/17102933/acc-espn-agree-20...
The way they have it spelled out makes it clear that the "Annual Giving Amount" you need to pay per seat in Lane or Cassell for your season tickets will also apply towards your priority. So if you give $500 a year, and are able to select 2 football seats that come with the $600 per seat minimum gift, the Hokie Club will have you logged as earning enough priority points for $1,700 for that year. If this is your second year of giving, that would earn you 44 points for that year (34 for the $1,700 total, 5 for the consecutive year, 3 for buying season tickets, and 2 for the 2 season tickets purchased)
To clarify ...
If you donate $500 by 3/31 and then select two $600 seats during football seat selection, the Hokie Club will send you an invoice for $700 (i.e. the difference between what you donated to date and what you selected [2x$600] - $500 = $700).
If you donate $1200 by 3/31, then you'll have 14 more priority points than the scenario I outlined above, which would give you a slightly better HC ranking for earlier seat selection. Then if you select two $600 seats during seat selection, you won't get an invoice for anything as you've already donated enough to cover the minimum donation for your seats.
Ahh I didn't realize the seat donation would already absorb your HC giving.
That makes more sense than what I had.
Cool - I should probably further clarify that in either scenario you'll ultimately wind up with the same # of Hokie Club points. The only difference is that in the second scenario, you benefited from the earlier giving by getting the points and thus a bump in priority ranking heading into seat selection, rather than getting an after the fact bump in ranking after you've already selected your seats.
Nah, mine is different than how it would actually be applied. I was essentially adding the mandatory giving amount on top of what you had already given, regardless of how it would apply to what you've already given.
In my scenario, if you're a $500 per year donor and you choose 2 tickets in the $600 per seat annual donation range, I was saying your total giving over the year would be $1,700, netting you the 34 points (2 points per consecutive $100) that I said, where in fact it would only be a donation of $1,200, because the total of the 2 tickets would be more than your giving level otherwise, which would bring the point priority to only 24.
Also, if you need another reason to join, 2017 is poised to be one of the best footballs schedule in recent years. The four conference opponents could potentially be ranked (Duke, UNC, Pitt and Clemson), the first game of the year is in FedEx against the cousins and there's a game in Lane Stadium North...by my count, 8/12 games next year are within driving distance for most of Hokie Nation (nine if you include ECU).
*sighs* if we must
Eh, 2015 was pretty awesome, minus the whole collarbone-shattering hit on Labor Day, and 2016 wasn't bad because Bristol. 2013 was cool because of the Bama game in the Chick-Fil-A Kickoff, but I suppose that was in Atlanta so it wasn't that convenient for most folks.
Our slate next year is pretty awful outside of the game at FedEx (which "point priority" probably will only help a little with) and hosting Clemson (which I believe you forgot to add). Down the line, though, hosting the following teams: Notre Dame in 2018, Penn State in 2020, Michigan and Notre Dame in 2021, WVU in 2022, Wisconsin in 2025, Arizona in 2030 (that seems so long from now) ...
I disagree. The Pitt and UNC games will most likely be ranked vs. ranked and will play pivotal roles in the race for the coastal. I'll concede the OOC schedule isn't that great.
Nah I didn't.
9/12 games next year are going to be less than 3.5 hours away from Richmond, VA, that's pretty good from a traveling standpoint.
I apparently can't read, no other reason I didn't see Clemson.
However, assuming that UNC and Pitt will be ranked vs. ranked matchups may be a bit optimistic. UNC collapsed down the stretch and will likely fall on their face in their bowl game, so unless they make a major run early next year I doubt they'll get ranked. Pitt is ranked now, but with Conner leaving I'm not counting on anything from them either. And I noticed you also included Duke on your original list, but even though they are still a decent football team they have a lot of ground to make up, and are anything but "likely" to be ranked at any point next year.
And just because you can physically make a lot of games doesn't mean they are good games to want to get to. I realize everyone has their own tastes, but I'd rather see more games against top-flight opponents than the Delawares, ECUs and ODUs of the world.
As for me, I'm probably only going to make the trip to VA for 3 games this year, and only one of those will be a home game (Clemson). FedEx makes too much sense for me to miss, as it's 3 hours closer to me than Blacksburg is (and I can take advantage of the 3 day weekend), and I'll be down in the 757 anyway for Thanksgiving so UVA is a no-brainer, but it would be very difficult to talk myself into driving 9 hours to see any of the other home games we have aside from possibly the Thursday night game, and that would be less due to the opponent and more because it's Thursday night.
Only because I referenced it earlier, here are the new Hokie Club Priority Points (applicable for VT football and basketball season ticket priority)
So the way to look at this, a point is essentially worth $50 based on the first criteria. Specifically for the people on here, if you're a student and you're in the Student Hokie Club for all 4 years, you're coming out of college with essentially $1,000 worth of priority points already banked when compared to someone who hasn't gotten to that point, yet. If you ever received a VT letter, that is essentially worth about $2,500 toward your Hokie Club membership.
When you look at this broken down, one thing starts to show, and that it actually encourages big one time donations when you can make it, while maintaining minimum level donations the remaining years to keep priority. In the past, a Hokie Benefactor made a one time gift and they were essentially set for life, only needing to purchase tickets themselves. Now, you're encouraging them to still continue giving after the fact to keep up their consecutive year priorities. That $20k one time payment will bank you 400 priority points right up front, and certainly set you apart and give you great benefits for the short term, but if you don't do anything after that, those who give every year will have the opportunity to eventually catch up and pass you for priority. It encourages everyone to keep their donations coming in to keep their place in line, but also encourages the lump sum payments to jump up in line if they can.
Also worth noting that seating priority in Lane and Cassell are not based upon your Hokie Club level and only on your Priority level, essentially to allow the above scenarios to play out.
Thanks for pulling out that point info and putting it into a post. I just wanted to tag onto your post to point out and clarify a few things --
Seat selection order is based on your priority ranking (this is probably want you meant by priority level, but I know most people think giving levels when the word "level" is used). In the past, the overriding factor in your ranking was you Giving Level (e.g. Bronze Hokie, Silver Hokie, etc.) Starting in 2017, your Giving Level has no bearing on your ranking and it's all based on your total lifetime points (so, for example, it's possible for a Bronze Hokie to have a higher ranking than a Silver Hokie). That said, you could be ranked #1 overall in the Hokie Club, but if you only donated $600 this giving year, that will limit what seats you're allowed to select (without an extra "make-up" donation), due to the minimum seat donations. To your point, this will require benefactors to begin donating again to maintain current seats.
The thing you would need to be careful about in doing "big one time donations when you can make it, while maintaining minimum level donations the remaining years" is that if you buy football or basketball tickets, you need to maintain the cumulative minimum seat donation in order not to lose your seats. So let's say you donate $10k this year and pick four $800 seats during reseating. Next year, the least you could donate and keep your seats would be $3200. This may be obvious to some people already who have read thru the Hokie Scholarship Fund info, but I just want to make sure the info is getting disseminated.
If you choose those seats, don't they make you pay that, anyway? You could essentially just give $100 to be eligible for the seat selection, choose whatever seats you want, and then bring up your donation level to essentially pay for those seats. If you decide you don't want seats in a given year, just donate the minimum amount to keep your cumulative points, and then still be eligible for a top seat selection priority for the next year, and then pay whatever value those seats are worth after the fact.
Yes and no ... keep in mind, we don't reseat Lane every year. If you chose 4 $800 seats for 2017 and then dropped your donation to $100, your seats would be released for 2018 selection, whereas most seats will not be released. If those seats are still available when it's your turn to choose seats in 2018, you could then pick them again and do the make-up donation. But the only way to ensure you keep the same seats would be to maintain at least a $3200 donation. If you're alternating between years of buying season tickets and not, then yes, definitely you could move your donation up and down. The only theoretical risk you'd run is not being able to get seats you want when you come back in, if it's a non reseating year. I doubt that's a very high risk (esp if your priority ranking is really high), but it's hard to say since we haven't done this process at all yet. Part of it comes down to whether they've accurately sized the supply of seats at each donation level vs the TBD demand.
OK, so who is the one Hokie Club member in Alaska.... are you out there on TKP?!?
http://www.drivefor25.com/tracking/
I notice Maine only has two...
Amazing when one new member can raise the total by 50%.
That's cool to see, I wonder what percent of Hokie Club members are like myself non Alumni Hokie Club Members.
Let's just say that as of this moment, it's higher than Montana.
Montana needs to get it's shit together.
This is like watching the Virginia Tech 2016 popular vote map.... and I'm sitting here with a glass of Bourbon on a Monday afternoon screaming at Idaho to go Orange!
C'mon you damn potatoes!!!!!
Incredibly envious that you have a glass of Bourbon at 3:30 on a Monday afternoon.
Thanks for posting this link - it prompted me to join and cover the Big Island of Hawaii!
Im genuinely excited to check those maps tomorrow and see if any state turned to orange.
C'MON MONTANA! I SEE YOU HAWAII!
We can do this!!!!
If this campaign is successful, and we pick up 15,000 additional members, that's a minimum $1.5 million increase per year. At the goal donation of $300 per new member, it's a solid $4.5 million. Big help in covering scholarship costs across all sports.
I'm already a HC member & season ticket holder but I'll be upping my donation this year. Between Fuente and Buzz our primary sports are great shape and I want to see it stay that way.
Does Babcock remind anyone else of President Garrett Walker?
Nah, Whit would have shut Underwood's plans down in a heartbeat
obviously not talking about policy, Whit is the man!
Even when thE only way to get season tickets was being a Hokie Club Member and the team was playing for the NC the Hokie Club membership didn't grow much beyond 10,000.
Is there any Hokie Club outreach up in the DC/NOVA/MD area? I know Sands was at Spider Kelly's for the ND game but how can a DC hokie support from up here?
"how can a DC hokie support from up here?"
Been a member for nine years, this morning got informed that my company is being bought out and everybody won't be retained. My donation might be reduced this year...
I'm sorry HokieAlum6144, that sucks. I hope you are able to land on your feet soon.
My bank job was impacted through a "relocation strategy" this year... jobs moved from NYC to Baltimore, Glasgow, or Mumbai... sucks at first, but everything works out if you keep your head up and reach out to your friends/network. I wish you the best of luck in working through everything... you never know, you might wind up donating more this year than previously!
Really sorry to hear that.
where you is? what you do? do we need to open a job board thread? if we enhance the economic well-being of our TKPers, then we raise the opportunities for the TKPC and HC...
Thanks for all the concerns. Found out today, I am one of the people that will be retained. Going to be very different, worked for the old company for 21 years.
I never went to VT but wen't thru an apprenticeship, I'm 36 years old. I have never been a HC member for I thought I was an "outsider" and honestly didn't know much about it. With how this is structured it feels different. I can afford $100 a year. However, I went to High School at (Rye Cove) Scott Co Va. and money is hard to come by in SW VA. Any body on here even know where I'm talking about? LoL. The point I'm making here is a lot of VA is economically depressed. If you want to hit those numbers your going to have to reach out to non alumni like myself. This looks good but it isn't going to be easy.
I'm with you, man. I am from Wise, now living in DC...Dickenson Co lol. It's tough down this way. The minimum to jump into HC isn't too bad.
I have been in HC for 2 years. I likely will not increase my donation and may have to give up going to football games altogether. The costs are becoming too much. There are seats with no donation attached, but at same time, I feel we shouldn't have to give up the seats I've had for 3 years when no one else wanted them. Really unsure what decision will be going into the March deadline and reseating plus donation increases.
When I grew up I wanted nothing more than to get away from SWVA. Now that I've lived pretty much everywhere under the sun I just want to go back.
Once I graduated from Tech, I realized there was no better place for me back here and northern VA was not what I wanted.
No regrets but my income doesn't allow me to throw money at Tech.
I think the location of Blacksburg impacts the donations. Most ACC schools have a big population to pull local money from. There isn't a lot of that west of Blacksburg and UT pulls some of the limited finances around here. I know more people that go to Vol football games than Hokies.
I think that's a misconception - the part about throwing money at Tech in order to contribute. People can just chip in a small amount and it adds up to a big difference for the athletic program.
Sure, incomes in SWVA are lower, but so is the cost of living. Frankly I'm surprised anyone with a full-time job anywhere can't come up with $2 per week to support a program that gives them a lot of enjoyment / entertainment. (if you are posting on this site it is assumed you enjoy VT sports)
$100 per 2000 hours worked boils down to a nickel per hour going to support the Hokies. Even at minimum wage of $7.25 per hour that is less than 2/3's of 1%.
It's not purely the minimum amount to be a contributing member of HC that I'm getting at. It is the amount required to actually get to the game and have a decent time, plus the actual donation costs. Everyone's financial situation is different, some more complex than others.
My biggest issue is that to continue to go to some/most home football games next year, my cost of entry will be significantly more. The flip side is that there will be a set amount of $0 donation seats. However, these seats are less desirable than what we currently have. I have wondered if the secondary ticket markets will have higher prices for the better seats since we all know those cost more to obtain starting next year. It is interesting but at same time frustrating being impacted directly by the changes.
Lastly, those in the same predicament that I am in (small # for sure from what I've read) will fade out while the upper echelon donors will have to absorb the loss. But the push for 25k will help dilute that for sure.
I don't know your giving/seating situation, but pretty much everyone I've talked to whose current seats are now going to carry a much higher minimum donation than their current giving level all fall into the same profile-- people who started giving recently, have been in those seats for just a few years, and usually only have 2 seats. That's all about what happens due to attrition of season ticket holders. If that sounds like your situation, honestly, you were going to get bumped out of your seats in the next reseating even if they didn't change the priority ranking formula. The bigger impact will be in the non-reseating years. In recent years, you could work your way into better seats in those years, but now you won't really be able to do that unless you're donating at the minimum level for those seats. Then again, they are also going to be doing reseating much more frequently (every 3 years), so there will be far fewer off-years anyway.
2017 will be an interesting test of how well the HC estimated the # of seats needed for each donation level. I am sure there will be adjustments once they see how this shakes out in Year 1.
I do believe you'll see higher prices on the secondary market for "good" seats/parking next year. Partially because sellers will be looking to recoup their donation, but moreso because some people who are currently in good seats won't donate enough to keep them and may choose to just go the secondary market route, esp if they can only go to 2 or 3 games. And if the HC overestimated how many seats to set at $800 and $600, some of the best seats may never get sold, in turn lowering supply of how many of those good seats ever even make it to the secondary market.
Hoping tickets work out for everyone, but they are changing so many things at the same time that it's really hard to guess how it will all work out.
Probably, for all the reasons you said, but also because VT has a more exciting on-field product than it has in the last 5-6 years.
That is also true. And the secondary market for Clemson tickets next year will be $$$ (even moreso if they win the national championship). I'll be curious to see how they split the ticket cost by game next year. My bet is the face value for the season bumps up from $385 to $400, and it's split as UD - $45, ODU - $55, Pitt/UNC/Duke - $70, Clemson - $90
It's still weird to me that there's so much variation in ticket prices. I think 2015 was the first year in recent memory where different games had different face values at all, and IIRC the non-con games were all $50 with the exception of aOSU, which was $90, and the ACC games were all $70.
It makes perfect sense, especially if we aren't selling out all the season tickets, but it's still strange to see at times.
I think most of the major college sports programs follow what I call the NBA pricing model now. At least with college football/basketball there doesn't seem to be the 'star player rest syndrome' that has become prevalent in the NBA thanks to Popovich and the Spurs. (Note - I don't think Pop does anything wrong by sitting his guys an ensuring they are rested for playoffs etc. but it does suck for fans that paid that higher ticket price for the opposing team star ticket)
As a long-time season ticketholder, I was really glad when they finally made that change. I know it was something I suggested to them whenever they solicited feedback, and I'm sure I wasn't alone. Both season ticketholders and the VTTO benefit when the face value of the ticket is as close as possible to true market value because it subverts the secondary market, making it easier for both the VTTO to sell unsold tickets as well as for season ticketholders to sell tickets for games they can't make. This was another area where Tech was really lagging behind the industry. Hardly any sports team charges the same ticket price for every game regardless of opponent.
The reason anOSU tickets were $90 was because VT had to charge the same amount as OSU charged for its home game with us. Since the season ticket prices remained the same cost, one of the smaller games got the "price cut." Personally, I don't recall ACC games being more, but I could be wrong.
We moved to a tiered pricing model in 2015 and it's not going away. It had nothing to do with Ohio State specifically per se, but rather it was about moving to a modern pricing structure. For a number of reasons it makes sense to adjust face value for each ticket to align more closely with market value, rather than charging the same flat price for every game. (We were one of the few schools in the country charging the same amount for every game before changing the model in 2015.) For 2016, face value was $45 for Liberty, $55 for ECU, $70 for BC, GT & Miami, and $75 for UVA. In 2017, it's a lock that Clemson tickets will be priced at a premium well above the other home games.
I would imagine that if seats don't get sold, they'll be made available as single game tickets, first to season ticket holders and then to the general public nearer to the day of the game. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over time, as people start to see what kinds of seats are available when its their turn to pick seats, and then down the line which seats go on sale to the general public, whether they change their giving levels going forward accordingly.
They already do. This year for example, I was able to purchase 9 (!) seats in section 2 for the Miami game. Granted, this was the first morning the single game tickets were available to HC members. We aren't selling out home games with any regularity, but Fuente will help make positive strides. Still, how much are people willing to shell out. I think we had one confirmed sell out from this season?
That's the million dollar question. What will they do with seats that carry a minimum donation that don't get sold as season tickets. I asked this at a town hall in the spring and didn't get a straight answer. Honestly, they really need to stick to their guns and not sell the tickets in mini-packs or single game ticket sales without at least requiring a prorated donation. I have a feeling you are correct though. There is an obvious temptation to sell unsold tickets in order to get the ticket revenue, but doing so is pretty short sighted in that they'd be cutting out their own legs from beneath themselves with regards to future donations. There's a whole lot less incentive for people to make the requisite large $ donations if they know Tech will just cave and sell the tickets anyway without a donation. I'll be very interested to watch how this plays out.
I'm with you on the increased costs. It presents a dilemma I'm a Hokie Club contributor and have 4 season tickets. I'm weighting the options between switching sections to make the mandatory donation manageable vs dropping a ticket or two. Either way I do plan to up my donation at least a little bit because Whit came through on several things this year that I am very happy with: hiring a great football coach, retaining Foster, firing our terrible WBB coach and replacing him with a good hire. Not to mention Buzz continues to prove to be a great hire.
I know exactly where Rye Cove is! Scott is just one county over from Washington, where I'm at. I did part of my field work for school in Scott County. There is a definite difference in this portion of Virginia (not to mention everyone in these parts are TN fans) and it will be hard to reach, but I'm hopeful. Sometimes it feels like we live in a different state altogether. Let's pretend that the Geico commercial is real and I'll say that we live in Virginessee or Tenneginia. I'm going to try to spread the word.
I've been working with a guy from Richmond who's a UVA fan and childhood friend of Brian Still. He's been calling where I live Virginiessee. I just tell people I'm from "Around Bristol". So far this year I've worked in Wise Va, San Francisco Ca. and currently in Worcester Mass. (I get around). I need to get a hold of Brian Still and tell him to set his friend straight. This guy actually bet me that ND would beat VT. I'll admit, I had my money laid out when we were down 17-0. I knew you we're from Bristol but I didn't think you knew where Rye Cove was. Most people know of Gate City and that's about it.
I grew up over in Lee County, near Pennington Gap, but frequently spent time in Big Stone Gap, Gate City, Norton and Wise. I live in Nashville now but many days I miss living there. It really is beautiful terrain.
I have been a member for Years and didn't go to VT. I have supported VT since the late 60's and when they started Hokie Club and Season Ticket point system, I started giving to that. Before it was just donations to the scholarship fund. Nothing new for me But I hope all VT Grads will step up and support this 25 Drive ..
One thing I feel like the Hokie Club could really do push people to give more is to make company matching gifts more prominent on website. It pretty common thing with most large companies, but it wasn't even something I thought of until I was perusing the Buckeye Club website to try to see how much my dad gives every year to them. On the buckeye club website its right there on the main benefits level page and even does the math for you. The only mention of it on the Hokie Club website that I see is on the How to Give page.
I didn't go to Virginia Tech...I actually have a degree from a certain school in College Park, MD...regardless...I my blood is orange and maroon. I'd still like to support the Hokie Club...for next season...I will donate $25 per touchdown that the #25 scores all season (if the unthinkable happens and they don't find the endzone...I will throw in $100 for the season). If other #TKPers want in...let's get it started!
Just joined. Also figure I'll pick up season tickets this year (primarily for the Clemson game) and come to a few games next year. Feels good, man. Also taxes.
I didn't go to VT as I chose another path in life that a VT education wouldn't have necessarily catered to. Our family ties are there, we try to hit up a couple of games every year and we (our family) has looked at becoming HC members in the past, but it seemed difficult and expensive.
Having spent a number of years in Greenville SC, I was always surprised by the overwhelming support of the non-Alumni base for Clemson through IPTAY. Many of the people I worked with and networked with were a part of this, and proudly so. It made them feel like they were a part of something without actually having been a part of it (from an educational standpoint).
This is kind of the same boat we are in. We love VT (my son may end up there), people in my extended family have attended and some even work there now. I, for one, am excited about this new "Drive for 25" because it does kick the door wide open for people in situations similar to mine.
We will most definitely be making this a consideration for 2017.
Do yall think that they lowkey had this #25 brand planned when Justin Fuente announced the special teams player of the week thing? The exceptional play of the specific special teamer of the week has really reinforced and solidified my liking of the number 25 way more than I had ever before. It's almost like I'm brainwashed and instantly associate the number 25 with happy thoughts of dominating blue collar football play, which is exactly what they want people to be thinking of when considering whether to donate or not. After they got us all drinking the koolaid about the player of the week representing Beamer with such success, now they've segwayed it into something that originally seemed unattainable but is now perfectly acceptable because their's a magic and power behind the number 25.
Everything about this promotion is about striking when the iron is hot. Football had a spectacular year and the future is bright. Basketball (mens and womens) are improving and may become perennial top 25 teams. Wrestling, Baseball, and more are good right now. The optimism around the bowl game and the success of ticket sales suggest Hokie pride is at a 5-year high. #25 is a special number. Special teams have been great this year. The play of #25 has been extraordinary. Beamer is revered and is the ideal spokesman to convince Hokies to commit to donating to Hokie athletics.
This is top-notch marketing. And, for the sake of the program, I hope this drive inspires the amount of recognition that is required to drive up alumni donations.
simply put... put simply.
(and I presume you'll "get inside my face"?)
Mind-bottling, isn't it?
edit: post was just complaining, not helpful.
.
While he is at it, Whit should "push" Nike to renegotiate and give us a real apparel deal-one that is not behind Purdue, Wake, UCONN, etc.- Those millions could help as well. It is a crime for VT to have the 100th best Nike deal in America.
It IS a crime to have a deal that doesn't even match that of UVa.
Didn't Weaver negotiate this on his way out the door? How long is our current contract for?
I'm a high school counselor in a rural part of Virginia and was informed today that two of my seniors will be Hokies - an engineer and an architect at that, accepted via early decision. For a small community that doesn't consistently produce huge amounts of top-end academic talent, this is a really big deal. I'm now even more pleased with my decision to join the Hokie Club and I'm incredibly proud of those two students and all the other early decision Hokies receiving good news this week.
Thanks for your efforts, and keep up the good work.
Always love to hear stories about kids succeeding in SWVA or rural VA in general.
Congratulate them for me, especially the architect-to-be. When I received my B-Arch in 1987, the program was good but not great. Now that it's consistently ranked in the top 5 and enrollment is limited, I sincerely doubt I would be accepted.
I've been buying season tickets for the last two years but seeing the grim numbers of our athletic support compared to the rest of the ACC has encouraged me to become part of the HokieClub today. I also have been meaning to do it for a while because I love the content here but I went ahead and joined TKP club today too!
Right there with you, I did the same (both HC and TKPC) today.
As a fairly recent graduate who moved out of state and is just far enough away that a Blacksburg trip is a minor pain in the ass, I don't get to support VT athletics in-person nearly as much as I'd like to. Since graduation in 2013, I've gone to: NCAA baseball tournament, football UMD '13 (ugh), football BC '16, and ACCCG '16.
I have a strong fondness for supporting small town and small business growth and while VT is by no means a small business, Blacksburg is a small town with dozens (maybe hundreds) of small businesses. My donation doesn't go directly into the pockets of the residents and business owners, but hopefully it can indirectly support some growth in Blacksburg while also fielding a slightly better product across all athletic programs and be a small amount of support as I cheer from my couch.
Anyone tracking the progress this week? I don't remember where everything sat when they made the announcement. Have we managed to make a dent in the first 4 days?
http://drivefor25.com/tracking/
10,609 members on 12/12, the number is 10,765 as of 12/14. There is a significant, long-term marketing effort that needs to be done.
Wait what the hell, only 150 people have joined since this started?
I knew things were bad but holy shit.
Color me discouraged.
I gotta say by the response on this website alone, I thought that number would be much higher. I had the exact same response as you when I saw the minimal increase.
It's an uphill battle. Did you think that one announcement and some emails were going to magically cause a 250% growth to occur? This is a long-term play.
I think you'll see this increase after the first of the year. As I understand the donation system for next year, money given between now and the end of the year does not count towards next year's credits for ticket allotment.
Really? I thought any donations between now and March 31st counted towards the reseating.
Correct.
http://www.hokiesports.com/hokiescholarshipfund/#program
I dunno, ~150 is a pretty healthy number for only half a week, in my opinion. About 50 or so new donors per day. Obviously that'll decline over time if they don't continue to push it, but if it keeps that pace on average, we're cracking 28k by this time next year.
I think if we can get some tangible results like a win over the SEC in a bowl game and a berth in The Dance (men's and women's), a lot more people will see where our Athletics department is going and in turn would be more willing to contribute to that growth. But maybe that's just wishful thinking.
I think the tracker is lagging by a day, so it should tick higher here tomorrow, but I'm sure they were hoping for a bigger initial bump. These types of things tend to spike quickly and then decrease just as quickly. After the first few days, the influx will drop off quite a bit, although they have year-end approaching and the associated tax benefit implications working in their favor over the next 2 weeks. After 1/1, I'd expect January and February to be pretty slow, with another spike in March related to the 3/31 priority deadline. After that, you're looking at organic growth where things like success of the bball teams, wrestling, etc. may spur some people to action.
I'm not sure why they don't have an incentive for current members to recruit new members. Hokie Club members personally recruiting their non-member friends is probably the most effective recruiting they could possibly have. I realize they don't want to spend money on this, but they could easily award Hokie Club points for referrals. I suppose they are hoping people will just recruit on their own, but they'd see much better results if there was an incentive. Considering there would be zero cost to giving referral points, I'm honestly puzzled why it was not part of the new point structure.
Short of a major catalyst (e.g. making the Final 4 in basketball or making the CFP), this is going to be a long, long slow grind. There's a reason they didn't put a date on this. My o/u for membership on 12/15/17 is 13k. I know that's not close to 25k, but that would be 20% growth in 1 year which would be fantastic.
cf. The Key Players Club
Well, even at that pace they'd be up over 7000 in 6 months...that would almost double their current participation.
Edit: already beat to the punch. What he said ^
The link provided up thread (http://www.drivefor25.com/tracking/) is being updated daily it looks like. 10,795 currently, but it doesn't show what the starting number was.
10,604 as of a few weeks ago when Hokie Club mailings went out.
Congrats to Iowa. First state to hit it's goal.
Just a friendly reminder to consider joining the Hokie Club, if you enjoy games like the one we saw last night. We all can play a role in the momentum building behind this program, this athletic department, and this university.
If your at home and have some time to kill turn on SEC network LSU at Bama woman's gymnastics. Look how many fans are there, the amount of media, the opening for the team looked like a major basketball entrance, lights dimmed, smoke, cheerleaders etc. This is the kind of support college Olympic sports could have if Tech can grow the Hokie Club. It's not just about football and basketball, our membership supports those college athletes who are not going to go pro after they graduate.
Why does Hokie Club membership dictate how many fans are there? It's the chicken and the egg thing. Obviously people in the South are MUCH more interested in all things college sports than any other part of the country. Is it a lack of pro sports? Is it the long history? That isn't changing overnight. And it is a major barrier for the Drive For 25 that is beyond a marketing fund drive. VA has the Skins. The Capitals. The Orioles and the Nationals. What does AL, Miss, LA, Ark, have?
People are more likely to support Olympic Sports if they have invested in the programs. As for fan support and lack of pro sports how does that explain larger fan support for anOSU, Mich, Stanford, ND etc. all of them are have fan bases in places with plenty of pro teams.
True story. For the first time, I'm watching men and women's bball this season. My wife is less than enthused. Typically I only disappear to watch sports during CFB season...
I went to my first women's basketball game this year and I have been watching them online when possible. I have been going to VT wrestling matches for about 5 years now.
Personally I'd turn out for wrestling, soccer, and baseball if I actually lived near Tech. The fact that so much of the fanbase is such a hike from Blacksburg doesn't help turnout for our non revenue sports.
This.
It's hard to justify driving 3 hours to watch non-revenue sports, especially on a weekday.
Travel during the week is one reason I do not attend many basketball games. My drive is shorter than most but still significant.
Sparse local population and spread out alumni is a tough combination to get involved whether it be fans in seats or money in the bank.
I agree and Tech will never see the attendance of any school with double or triple the alumni base or closer to major metro but what those fans Tech does have can do is donate money. Help all the teams get better thus drawing in the 300,00-400,000 people who do live close enough to Tech to catch an event.
Guess they have to continue to build up the surrounding cities (Roanoke, christiansburg, etc.) to make that issue less of a problem in the long-run.
Just have whit hire the chamber of commerce members for all the nearby towns/cities and we'll have the local economy to support as many alums as want to live there.
i think history of programs plays a huge factor and that obviously doesn't change overnight. If VT men's wrestling is consistently good for an extended period of time then they will have a consistent following it's like that with anything. You are mentioning "blue blood" programs and they're called that for a reason
So it's not just pro sports. That's what this whole drive for 25 is for. So that in 10,15,25 50 years from now Tech had the base to be as big as those other schools you mentioned. People want Tech to compete well money and fans is how you do it.
I'm a Hokie Club member and I support all things VT and encourage others to do the same. Im also realistic in thinking that the drive for 25 will take years as a major culture shift. I'm also not in the camp that money solves all problems whether it be recruiting or otherwise, although I'm sure it doesn't hurt.
I totally agree. The money coming in goes to pumping up these other sports, Putting on high quality events that people either will drive for or those around will choose to go to rather than all the other alternatives. Wins alone will not pack a stadium. Exciting events, tons of promotion, an atmosphere that breeds wanting to come back for more.
They cannot put the burden of people in the seats on the Coaches. But with alumni dollars, we can afford for the marketing, for the strategy and long term focus for all the teams...Let the coaches coach and the money go to the atmosphere. Upgrades and renovations are easier with money in the bank and butts in the seats.
"What does Ark have?"
"Hold my beer"
The fanfare and hype surrounding SEC gymnastics was driven by a rivalry between Bama and UGA coaches. Yes, funding helped improve the facilities but they didn't start that way. From and FloGymnastics article:
There is an interesting ESPN Films documentary HERE
We are beginning to see the personalities of the coaching staff drive interest to the non revenue sports. Dresser has been critical to Hokie Wrestling taking advantage of different venues and adding entrances etc. at the home meets.
The funding was there to hire the coaches, provide the scholarships, and now place them on national TV. TECH needs to do one of two things reduce number of scholarship sports like Clemson or increase giving and increase sports to levels like OSU.
I got tired of hearing about Tech being out recruited.
I donated my first paycheck of 2017 to the Hokie Club
I'm going to miss Dresser.
[ mod edit to embed ]
Some of the Drive for 25 fundraising folks spoke at the Alumni dinner I went to this past Monday. They said, while they hadn't reached the 25,000 member goal (which they admit is very ambitious) the increased membership numbers are very promising. We're not there yet, but hard work is paying off!
The Hokie Club has added a little over 2,000 members in less than six months. Solid progress that hopefully continues!