I know this topic, especially in terms of playing time and attrition, has been brought up numerous times throughout the year. After CJF mentioned him during Belk Bowl interviews, this was his response to AB directly...
@AndyBitterVT been healthy the past year & half. You'll have a story to write very soon.— ShaiMcKenzie (@Mckenzie_era) December 20, 2016
It'll be interesting to see what happens, but I wish the best to him regardless.
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Comments
I think the writing is on the wall...
...actually I think it was on the Twitter...
"That's not how this works!"
"I unfriend you."
"That's not how any of this works!"
Come, sit! Can I interest you in a werthers original?
righting, if you are referring to his original tweet
This was what Fuente said about Shai when asked after practice.
"What do you mean an update on him? No, he is not healthy. You know how I am about injuries. He is not healthy."
I have a hard time believing this gets better before it gets worse.
Yep. Quieter the better at this point.
Another tweet:
He sent that tweet tomorrow?
Invent the Future???
Time machine. Duh.
Sounds like he never bought in to what Fuente and staff have been preaching. Was bound to happen with some of our guys who were carried over from the last staff. Seems like CJF has a way of doing things and if you don't get it done, you won't see the field or get a lot of reps in practice. I hope the best for Shai, but he isn't handling this well. IMO this makes him look pretty immature.
I wouldn't be surprised to not see him at bowl game.
So you're saying you'd be surprised to see him at the bowl game?
So...you're saying your English isn't not so bad?
It didn't take me a short amount of time to figure out what you weren't not saying.
Welp
Best of luck to him next year at wherever he transfers to this winter
This is... weird. He certainly appeared healthy on the carries he got in the Tennessee game. I remember thinking then that he was playing like a guy with a chip on his shoulder. Not sure what's going on, but I don't like it.
He certainly isn't being Shai about speaking up.
Wish the beat guys weren't so Bitter about not getting answers and stop asking.
Both of you take your legs, but I'm not happy about it.
DING: TEN!
it's the brutal honesty from you I can respect...
Gets me every time
Never liked the attitude he brought. You have to feel for the guy after the injuries he's gone through but this isn't the first time he's sent out some cryptic Tweet.
Lol. Sounds like Fuente was almost covering for him. "Oh yeah Shai's a good guy, he's just been hurt".
Whatever's going on, those two are not on the same page.
I'd put money on it he's transferring to Pitt.
Likely would have to go JUCO to make that transfer unless he can prove some kind of family medical hardship or he has graduated. Would also be subject to ACC transfer rules.
...and I'm not sure he's shown enough to claim a spot at Pitt. I'm guessing a Temple type of spot.
If I had to guess that he would be back in the ACC, should he leave, my money is that he'd be the next B back for Georgia Tech.
You have to sit out 2 years to transfer to an ACC school. That wouldn't make any sense to someone who has already played two years and redshirted one.
WVU seems like a possibility
Even though we play them next year?
Can't play unless he graduates. I haven't seen anything that indicates that he's going to graduate, this year.
I'll take that bet. How much you want to wager?
No way. He'd have to sit out two years to transfer within the conference.
He's been gone! Gotta show up everyday! Is all I have to say!
Possible that Fuente was less than enamored with his off field behavior and decreased his PT as a sort of gentle boot out the door?
Let's just take a break to remember the good times.....
An odd situation for sure. I hope the best for him whether he stays here or goes elsewhere.
Once a Hokie, always a Hokie.
If this keeps up, Lawson might transfer.
Wait, is this still a thing?
He's just not healthy. No worries.
On the bright side, we can hope that this will create that open spot for Drew Harris.
... Or maybe Conner O'Donnell
Still clueless on embedding tweets, but here is an exchange in response to the original tweet that Shai sent out:
Adam Griffin @VTGriff09 14h14 hours ago
@Mckenzie_era @AndyBitterVT Haven't seen same explosiveness when u did play. Go out classy, transfer don't burn bridges & reinvent elsewhere
ShaiMcKenzie @Mckenzie_era 14h14 hours ago
@VTGriff09 hard to show explosiveness sitting until the 4thQ. This ain't NBA Jam I can't come into the game on fire
This is the downside of Fuente's system I think. Fuente can get the yards he wants with a decent back, but a truly special back is probably never get the carries he wants and likely needs to find the rhythm to take over a game line he was used to in high school.
I'm not judging. But I think we are unlikely to ever see the kind of dominant rb play we got used to for a while with Beamer.
I think Fuente's system runs the risk of turning off those recruits. Again, not judging, just saying it's something we should probably get used to.
I agree with this IF we don't have an elite talent at rb. I can't imagine that they wouldn't alter the offense to fit the skills and touches that having a Dalvin Cook or Leonard Fournette would warrant. Coaches are always willing to bend their philosophy to an elite playmaker. No way we utilize Dalvin Cook the way we utilized our backs this year.
The flip side is that we might never be able to recruit a Cook or Fournette with this system. I mean right now Ricky Slade is watching his high school guy McMillian getting 5 carries a game after tearing it up the year before.
Yep, I'm not sure we will either, I've expressed some worry about that on another thread the last time a similar situation got brought up. What we don't know is what the coaches are telling a guy like Slade. I'm certain they are letting him know how they envision him impacting the offense and how he will be utilized. He in particular, is probably less concerned with this, I'm not sure a guy Slade's size wants 25-30 carries a game though honestly.
I disagree. If we had a truly dominant back on the roster, he would be getting the bulk of the carries. We just don't have one right now, and Fuente/Cornelsen have tried to tinker with the rotation in an effort to maximize rushing production over the season.
Obviously, Shai has done something to land himself in the doghouse. If he's unhappy about the playing time he's seeing, he can either do what is expected of him by the coaches to earn more time, or transfer. Sitting around complaining about it and throwing shade at the staff on Twitter just looks petty. On the other hand, if Shai isn't injured, I don't understand why Fuente is saying that. Just a really dumb situation, and I hope it reaches a resolution soon.
But again, if we had a true game-changer at RB, I have no doubt they would be utilized heavily. We simply don't have that caliber of a back at this moment.
This seems to be Fuente's biggest flaw. The way he handles these types of situations with the media is a bit chaffing IMO. I'm reminded of his statement when Lawson transferred (yes...it happened) and the discussion that followed about his word choice.
"Our coaches and staff at Virginia Tech invested significant effort in providing Dwayne the support and resources to be successful as a both a student and an athlete, as did Coach Beamer and his staff," Hokies' head coach Justin Fuente said in a release. "After conversation with Dwayne, he felt leaving our football program would be in his best interest. We wish Dwayne the best at Hutchinson Community College."
This is starting to seem like a theme. I'm not sure why he's doing it this way, but I have to assume he has a reason.
The one thing I want to get used to is winning 10 or more games a year. How Fuente decides to get that done I will leave in his capable hands.
I'd like to get used to winning 15!
I'm sure if he had a back that was head and shoulders above the rest that back would be getting the majority of the touches. We just don't have a dominant RB on the roster right now
I strongly disagree. If anything this exchange shows how much the issue is with Shai's attitude as much as anything else. As others have said, if we had a running back that was a peck above the rest, you'd better believe he'd be getting carries.
There are only 7 P5 players averaging 20 carries per game or more.
Most of the top backs get about 15 carries per game, Brandon Hayes got about 16 per game at Memphis in 2013 and 2014.
His mom is regularly on a Hokie FB page blasting the coaching staff and cryptic/vague references to how the coaches have done him wrong, etc. The whole thing has gone sour and I think all parties involved would be best served with a transfer/fresh start.
Please direct me to this Hokies FB page
"Tha Real Hokie Nation"
This closed group (I think)
I found it just wondering if the spelling error is intentional.
That, I can't help you with.
No won spellz thingz rite on porpose anymor, amirite?
*eye twitches uncontrollably*
*Know
*awn
"there familys"
I swear people don't even try any more.
Just joined that group to see what it was all about....left after reading about four posts.
I'm assuming it wasn't the Hokie Pokie
Edited:
You earned this
I JUST WANT YOU TO BE PROUD OF ME
good god I hate Brady
I've seen it now you must also.
This must be a fake. That wrecking ball can't be deflated.
*NSFW
Hell that's not suitable at any time for anybody. I just want to unsee that.
Just want to remind everyone, before we really start losing our shit about how CJF is handling this, that a significant number of us were really concerned with the exodus of players from the Buzzketball squad in year 1-2, including how little Buzz seemed to care. That has worked out fine.
This is inevitable with a coaching change. Matter of fact, I'm surprised it's been limited to Lawson thus far (maybe I'm missing someone?). We'll be okay.
Here's to hoping that we can land an elite back in the next couple of classes.
Are people losing their shit about how Fuente is handling this?
"Losing their shit" may have been an exaggeration. I was mainly posting in response to the people who were questioning why Fuente was saying he wasn't healthy when that isn't the apparent reason. The posts right below mine address this more thoughtfully, but saying what he did was probably the best approach that didn't require him explaining that a player who's in the doghouse is about to transfer for whatever reason.
Point being, Fuente has given me little reason to question his methods thus far, so I'm not going to start over a fairly trivial issue.
Fuente may be referring to mental health. As in, "he doesn't have his head on straight."
or he runs like he's injured
..or his mom talks shit about us on facebook.
Wait, that's not health related.
I don't think many of us are too concerned about players leaving. I think that on average, Fuente has better players coming in than we had for the past four+ years.
I'm not concerned about players leaving (with exception of Lawson, of course).
But this class so far is right in line with the entire 2016 roster's avg recruit star rating according to 247.
I wonder what the attrition rates are of each "star level". It would be interesting to see if we tend to lose more 2* and 3* players prior to graduation or if we lose more 4*, over time. That could change the way that looks.
I can't imagine it's significantly different among star ratings. A big chunk of attrition is due to injuries or off-the-field challenges - those things don't care about star ratings. Plus the higher your star rating, the more likely you are to be playing - thus less likely to be unhappy.
Message board posters who get emotionally invested in imprecise star ratings just make a lot more noise about overrated high school players when they don't pan out - so when a 4* (which often actually means borderline 3*/4*) doesn't work out, it gets a lot more "what could have been" discussion.
My point is, if the ratios are about the same right now, and in general we lose more 2* and 3* players, and if that trend continues out of the incoming class, then the overall ratio will improve. If the opposite is true, then the overall ratio will drop. Mostly, I am just thinking out loud and hoping somebody with more knowledge (or easy access to the data) overhears and answers.
I looked at 247 composites of 3 VT recruiting classes about a year ago. IIRC, a player with a composite in the .87 range was twice as likely to be a starter than one below that level. However, there was no difference in the 3 star and 4 star (.90 and above) over that point, i.e., .87 - .8999, was just as good as .90+. It was a small sampling but it might be an interesting exercise for someone with time on their hands to repeat.
I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that the avg ratings for the last 5 classes and the collective average for the entire roster are not appreciably different.
My guess would be the higher rated guys since those are the guys that expect to play and possibly have options elsewhere
Counterpoint: Joel Caleb fizzling out gets a lot more attention from the fanbase than Adam Taraschke.
Yes, that was a real 2* player for VT. As was Joe Jones, Joey Hall and Michael Green.
Also makes sense.
Maybe I am in the minority on this, but regardless of the situation with Shai, I think that Fuente chose his words on puporse, "Shai isn't healthy" could mean many things. None of which might have to do with his physical health. Also, there are far too many coaches who by answering the question more "completely" take the time to bad mouth players. I think Fuente knows this is a difficult situation and that by airing dirty laundry to the media, no one wins. This is the unfortunate reality of big time college football and the hiring/firing of coaches who didn't recruit the players they inherit. Right, wrong, or indifferent, the coaches are hired to win ball games and get paid too much money to make pleasing all the players their main priority. It sucks for Shai, but if it comes out that Fuente decided to mislead with his answer in order to avoid bad mouthing Shai with his honest opinion or facts as he sees them, I am more than OK with him going that route. Not everything needs to be public knowledge, IMO.
We dont need your LOGIC being fed into this HYPED UP GOSSIP MACHINE
No, I think you're exactly right. My initial reaction to this was "okay Shai's not really injured, coach was just saying that as opposed to bad mouthing his player". It looks weird now that Fuente seems to be caught on a white lie, but I think it's really Shai that's out of place for airing this out in a public forum.
I thought the same thing. If your coach says you ain't healthy to the public and you claim you are healthy to the public then...
1) What are you doing disagreeing with your coach in public?
2) Maybe you just ain't as good as the people around you and he didn't want to say that
3) Maybe your attitude ain't right (which could be in agreement with #1) and he didn't want to say that
No matter how you slice it, this may be the end of the line with Shai. We'll have to see how this shakes out, but I think there are probably some valuable lessons to be learned on both sides regardless.
They are all adults, and welcome to their own voices. If Fuente goes on the record and said something untrue (whatever his rationale) about Shai in response to a reporter's question, I see nothing wrong with Shai responding, on the record, in the manner he did.
Sometimes things just don't work out. There is no question Shai is an extremely talented RB. Fuente obviously doesn't see a place for him in his offense. I welcome open dialogue on the issue. I appreciate knowing what's going on. The only thing I hate more than the comment-drama following it is the comment-speculation following when someone leaves and nobody knows why.
Totally agree. I get why CF wants to say "isn't healthy" as a reason for him not playing to protect both him and Shai. However there are some people who don't want to be lied to or lied to in public. I know that I'm personally one of these people and if Shai has the same mindset as me, I get pissed when coach says that I'm injured to the media and I'm not. I'd rather be bluntly told the truth, versus the coach come up with some excuses that I know are false. Would it hurt Fuente to say something along the lines of "Different players pick up our new offense at different rates. Shai is a fantastic player, but at this point, he is unfortunately a little bit behind some of the other guys. We are looking forward to him improving and helping the team as the season progresses. With injuries, you never know, he could be our starter next week." ?
One would think since this has apparently been a thing for several weeks, that the two would have a mutual understanding by now as to both "why" and how CJF would handle the inevitable media inquiries.
Maybe they should talk to each other instead of the media.
Not how things are done these days though, right? There is no substitution for a face to face conversation.
akin to "my ex isn't healthy" doesn't necessarily mean she's riddled with STDs. It could just mean she's batshit crazy
I know nothing about this player's attitude, but one thing I do know, a bad attitude isn't healthy either for player or team.
A gun rack. I don't even own *A* gun, let alone many, that would necessitate an entire rack. *What* am I going to do with a gun rack?
If I don't say three things out of this movie in the course of regular conversation in a day, I'm probably in a coma.
Zang!
"We fear change...."
Bye-Shai
EDIT: you are correct
I think it's too early to disrespect someone who has given so much to Virginia Tech, unless I've missed the comments from Shai disrespecting Virginia Tech. What I've seen is between Shai and Fuente, and I think it's fair to let it go at that without "taking sides" on the issue. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. No need to treat anyone poorly.
Just saw on my timeline memories today that Shai had committed to the good guys and how excited I was for that. I remember how excited I was to see his first season on the field. I still think he is a good player but I am bummed things shook out the way they have. I am not sure that he fully recovered from his injury 100%. You can't just shake those things off. I think the biggest thing here is that Shai and CJF have to do what is best for them. I just wish Shai was doing it in a less controversial way so that it doesn't tarnish the effort and time he has put into our school and team. I am thankful for his contributions (if he wasn't there when he was we would have been far worse off) and hope for a graceful exit if that is the direction he chooses to move in.
Well?
](https://postimg.org/image/5qzezqm49/))
After having torn his ACL twice, he may not ever be fully "healthy" in football terms. I thought he looked pretty good running the ball earlier this year. It was mostly in mop up time but I thought he had a future here. Whatever the case, I dont think the coaching staff is to blame on this one. If he was the best we had, he would be out there. Unless there is behind the scenes stuff going on. Shai probably shouldnt be posting the stuff he has on Twitter, and he was using tinder to hook up with a 16 year old so his decision making could come into question.
Didn't understand the comments of the guy that said he wasn't playing so well. Looked good in his limited snaps, but Wasn't his last meaningful time ended either by a fumble or an injury?
Yeah, his decision to be lied to was pretty poor. /s
I'll never forget seeing Shai win a rap battle at Sycamore, I was probably the only white dude there, it was awesome.
EDIT: This was pretty recent too, Big Tim was in attendance
It's good he seized the opportunity since Tone left town.
Is that beat box kid? Anyone remember him?
Dude was the highlight of so many walks across the drillfield
Tone as in Antone. Antone as in Exum.
Some just get burned into one's brain.
That ole twitter elbow will get to ya!
Another Bitter tweet seems to indicate that Shai is injured, though we have no idea of whether or not he was injured when CF made his comments. If I knew how to add an image, I would include a screen cap.
The plot thickens
This is what happens when you arm wrestle sam rogers.
Does anyone think Fuentes after Shai's tweet walked over to him next day, looked him in the eye and said "you're injured"... standing there for a moment staring at each other and then Shai immediately went to the trainer and asked for a sling?
I was just imagining something similar involving different coaches and actual bodily harm (in a /s sort of way), but your idea is better.
I think there may be some merit to this. When I first read that he'd be in a sling, I thought that this was Fuente telling Shai that he is hurt and that he'll show it at the bowl game. If Shai goes along with it, I think it bodes well for whatever comes next for them both.
Mentioned in the other thread that Shai recently had surgery.
(didn't say if it was before or after Fuente told him he was injured /s)
haha I can imagine the exchange:
Shai: I'm not injured.
Fuente: Yes you are.
Shai: No I'm not
Fuente: Your shoulder hurts
Shai: What?
Fuente: You need surgery.
For some reason this reminds me of that family guy episode:
No, but Fuente might have
Fuentes , Fuentes , whom is this Fuentes that you speak of?