I'm noticing this a lot lately. I'm seeing a lot of Hokie fans call for Leal over Thomas. I completely understand there reasoning for it. But why? They've only seen Leal in practice and scrimmages and in mop-up duty time in games. Please don't get me wrong, but he's very talented and I'm sure that next year he will definitely have his time to shine and might even surprise a lot of Hokie fan everywhere. But the thing that really confuses me is what is it with some of our fanbase? It's almost as if were divided in a sense.
I agree to disagree with certain Hokie fans, but in my opinion some are completely wrong about a few things. And yes I said WRONG. This is the same argument that I sat and listened to when Tyrod was the quarterback here. When he replaced Glennon it seems like all I was hearing from Hokie fans at the time was he can't pass all he does is run. I think he was rushed before his time, but this is the same argument that I believe that were seeing now, but not as much. I saw the article where Mike Farrell from Rivals said that Tyrod seemed to be a scapegoat at times and then a hero the next. I agree something about our fanbase...Not ALL of our fanbase, but a few seems to have commitment issues, when things don't work out immediately they seem to want someone to replace someone sooner than later which is going on this season as well as in the past. I agree with Andy Bitter's response from his afternoon chat blockquote>"Again, what extensive performance by Leal are you basing this on? He's seldom played in games and does minimal work in scrimmages. I just don't understand how anyone could be so darn sure that Leal is a sure thing at QB. He might be, but nobody outside the coaching room could honestly answer that"<.
last, but not least I completely understand that our wideouts didn't play as good as we would have liked in the Bama game. I was told by a lot of posters that DJ Coles shouldn't have played that bad he has wasted his redshirt and so has Knowles. I truly respect that, but this was his first game in literally a year. I think he was playing scared and for that matter who could blame him. it's more of a mental thing. I know when I've broken my ankle playing it completely messed with my head about taking shots around my legs and lower extremities. I think to a certain degree this game would have benefitted us by playing it maybe even aftera tune up game. Then he could have worked out some of his rust. But let me guess, I will see comments such as"But this is a physical sport he knew this before even getting on the field". Yep, that' s also true, but I guess the point I'm getting at and this is sorely my opinion, if I was him Logan or any of our wideouts and I saw some of these post how would I feel about our own fanbase? I'm just clearing my mind, some will agree and some will totally disagree, but it is what it is! Win or lose, good with the bad. I'm going to ride with my team no matter what!
GO HOKIES!
Comments
When I saw hokiefan4life had posted again, I got really excited. I had hoped you would at least end it with something along the lines of, "you may not agree, but don't deny my pussy touchdowns."
When it comes down to it, I think that there are a lot of Hokie fans (and really, football fans of any team) who just don't understand the complexities of the game of football. The community here at TKP is a pretty obvious exception.
But IMO, that's why we see these knee-jerk reactions - most casual fans only see & comprehend a small percentage of what's happening on the field. I certainly fall into that category at times considering I've never played organized football, but I've always been an observant sports fan and tend not to overreact like many do. The point is, when you have a large majority of your fanbase that isn't versed in a nuanced sport like football, you get outlandish reactions.
Thanks to the staff here, I can say that I'm a much more informed football fan and enjoy the game a lot more than I did before I found the site.
Backup qbs are always the most popular player
Except tyrods years. I didnt know anyone who was calling for glennon or juju over him
Exhibit A: Alex Moran
'nuff said.
BRING BACK BLUE MOUNTAIN STATE!
Watching it now. Made me so sad when they canceled it
I am old. I would have said Jonathan Moxon.
Gotta love some Varsity Blues..."let's be heroes boys, LET'S BE HEROES!"
He was much more effective than Bobby Collins, but Bobby Collins is good enough to get us a split in the next two games to get us to a bowl.
DON'T THROW THE FLAT!
Love the Varsity Blues and The Program reference. By the way, six degrees of Caan. James and his son Scott both played prominent roles in those two fine flicks.
Have to agree The Program > Varsity Blues
I don't want..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................your life!
Except at LOLUVA. All quarterbacks are the least popular kids on campus.
We ALWAYS called for JuJu over Tyrod.... In garbage time
We want Ike chants in '06 over Glennon.
Ooh no! Finger slipped sorry for down vote. wish there was an undo for that.
That said, I remember people calling for wild turkey formation with BOOOONE! all game long that year
Got you covered.
I remember this
I remember getting excited about Lance Goff playing a few years ago.
Of course, we were up by about 50, so it was easy to be excited.
Love the post! People will miss Logan next year. I will admit I was sticking with Glennon even after the Georgia game (which he singlehandedly lost) until 2008 where on his first pass of the year for the second straight year he threw an interception to East Carolina and we lost - I was done with him then and I'm still done with him.
The Glennon exception aside, I have never given up on a player up to and including Marcus Vick.
Lol and turkey leg for #BEATWCU signature
I don't hold the UGA bowl game result against Glennon. He was a freshman starting against a very good D-line with a coach that admitted to being clueless in that game. AND we had two starting O-linemen go down for good with injuries. Stiney admitted he had no idea what to do or what to call after that. If the coach didn't have a clue...how would a freshman QB who was having rushers on him after taking 2 steps back?
And we lost that ECU game because the whole team let down. Pass D couldn't stop anything, and the special teams let that block happen at the end. It was a lot more than just Glennon that went wrong that day.
Glennon was a r-Soph. when he played Georgia...the freshman quarterback in the game was Matthew Stafford.
Let them complain. Logan will never be benched.
He is the most talented QB we have on the roster.
Exactly.
"I'm seeing a lot of Hokie fans call for Leal over Thomas. I completely understand there reasoning for it. But why?"
51.3% completion, 18 TD, 16 INT. That was Logan's stat line last year. He threw a bunch of INTs in the spring game, struggled in fall practices that were open to the public, then went 5-26. That's why.
59.8% completion, 19 TD, 10 INT...That was his stat line in 2011. What's your point? Leal has 2 TD on his stat sheet. What has he proven? Again, what makes anybody think that Leal is better than LT?
Funny, most people would see a player's stat line drop precipitously like that and be concerned.
That same argument could have been made in 2007 to keep playing Glennon and stick Tyrod on the bench, since Glennon played in 2006. We have no idea if Leal is good enough to win games. However Logan hasn't been good enough since Coale and Boykin left town. Maybe it was the receivers that made Logan look good. Maybe the hype from Kiper affected him. Maybe he's so preoccupied with proving he is a pocket passer that it is disrupting everything else. Maybe Whitfield wrecked his mechanics. Maybe O'CainSpring wrecked him beyond repair. I don't know the specific cause, only the effects.
Leal's going to be the heir apparent next season. If Logan continues to throw passes into the dirt at what point do we accept that it's time to make a change? This is especially true if the defense continues to be a car shredder. It's unfair to continue to saddle the defense with an offense consisting of punts, 3 yard runs and sadness. Hopefully it gets sorted out quickly.
So Leal, working with the same receivers Logan's working with now, will be better? People want to point to last game where that stat sheet read 5-26, but few people actually look into those attempts to see what happened. Luckily, members of TKP community have and saw that Logan had 5-6 throwaways, and 9-11 dropped passes depending on how you look at it. That leaves us with between 4 and 7 passes that could be considered "bad." Is it Logan's fault DJ gave up on his route? Is it his fault that Knowles couldn't catch a pass that hits him in the hands, knees, waist, numbers, or facemask? He isn't continuing to "throw passes into the dirt." He hit receivers. He stood tall in the pocket and took hits so he could make a better throw instead of losing form to avoid a hit. How would Leal put up better stats in those circumstances?
I watched the game too and saw Logan miss a deep ball to Knowles that could have changed things at that point in the game. Blame the receivers all you want but 5-26 is 5-26. The complaints about the QB aren't about one game. It's dating back to last season when LT played himself from being a top 5 pick into a disaster. He actually got worse as the season went along:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/480239/year/2012...
Under 50% his last 3 games. Whose fault were those games?
I have no idea if Leal would definitely be better, nor am I giving up on Logan. I do know that fear of the unknown when the known isn't very good is a terrible reason to not try to change things. Hopefully Logan and the receivers get it together over the next few weeks and everything is moot. The defense and Bud deserve better than what the offense gave them Saturday.
I agree that the defense deserved better than what they got...but a lot of that is also on special teams. Loefler had to get away from his game plan because we got so far behind so quickly. It was also the first game in a new system with a new coordinator...and Thomas did miss some passes that he'd like to have back I'm sure, but overall he was throwing the ball a lot better than last season. I expect our offense to improve throughout the season...and Thomas' stats will improve as well. He may not put up the kind of numbers that you'll see out of Jameis Winston types of players but he'll put together a respectable season and probably get picked up somewhere in the middle of the draft.
The stat line that you seem to be missing is that Logan Thomas led the Hokies in rushing last year. That's a HUGE problem.
LT's drop off last year is not all on him. Hokies could not get a run game going at all, and the offensive line couldn't pass protect. Receivers last year were a problem as well. Cory Fuller, the track star, was our best option. Knowles was still young, "Veteran" Marcus Davis half assed it, and "Veteran" Dyrell Roberts did as well.
Not to mention...Stinespring, Newsome, and O'Cain were still happening.
In my opinion you couldn't have Said it Any better
Our offensive coordinator, who has worked with Tom Brady, Tim Tebow, Chad Henne, etc, seems to believe that Logan is our best option. Do you not trust him? Do not think he's spent enough time with Leal to know that Logan is our best option? Or do you think he wants us to lose?
I wouldn't call Leal the "heir apparent," he's going to have to fight for a starting position next year. All reports say Bucky is VERY raw, but still talented. Andrew Ford is a pro-style QB, which Loeffler has said he prefers, so as a true freshman, he could be in the mix too.
Henne never got better after his freshman year at Michigan, and followed a similar pattern in the NFL (showed promise, continued to make same mistakes even after experience). Tebow can't throw. Not sure how much he really wants to be associated with those two.
"Do you not trust him? Do not think he's spent enough time with Leal to know that Logan is our best option? Or do you think he wants us to lose?"
I don't think he wants VT to lose, but I also don't know what else he could say other than that he trusts Logan. Despite LT's struggles last year he still would have been a first round pick had he declared. A coordinator who was just fired from an offensive dumpster fire wouldn't have the juice to bench LT for someone unproven and get away with it. I believe he's doing his very best to work with LT because it's in his best interests for current and future employment to fix Thomas. I just wonder if he can be salvaged at this point. I have some hope with Loeffler because by all accounts Motley looked great in practice this year, which is surprising because no one expected him to stick at QB.
As for heir apparent, I meant that Leal will likely go in with the job being his to lose. He'll be the only QB with actual experience unless something crazy happened.
Henne is an NFL starter.
Henne is the backup to Blaine Gabbert in Jacksonville right now. He may end up being named the starter because Gabbert is atrocious.
Better than Sean Glennon...
Indeed. I was wrong.
I am sorry, comparing Logan Thomas to Sean Glennon and Tyrod Taylor to Mark Leal is laughable. Glennon was a mediocre at best quarterback who didn't have the play making ability to overcome the lack of cohesion in the offensive scheme. Tyrod didn't make the offense any more cohesive, but he could run and keep plays alive until eventually someone got open.
The problem now isn't a cohesion problem. It is overcoming an overall lack of talent and depth at the skill positions. The Hokies need a quarterback who has the potential to make other players around him better. Despite his struggles, Logan is that guy. Leal is a guy who can be a quarterback if everyone around him plays well, but when that first team Hokie D was after him, he was completely ineffective. If he replaces Logan at some point, he will be a caretaker for the next guy. Nothing more.
Well said french well said.
After the Alabama game, I think anybody would be ineffective with the first team D after them
Because too many Hokie fans give far too much credit to organizations like ESPN who have "expert analysts" who are "credible" sources and say things like "Logan Thomas really struggled against Alabama completing only 5-26 passes" when they don't actually watch the game to see that a majority of those missed passes were dropped by the receivers. Anybody who has half a sense about what's going on in football game and ACTUALLY WATCHED that game would recognize that Thomas, for the most part, actually looked a lot better than last year, but his stat sheet was pretty poor as a result of receivers not stepping up. Too many Hokie fans think HD/The Neck knows what she's talking about.
Not to mention the thrown away passes in the Bama game that, to me, are a vast improvement over the sacks LT took last year.
There were times last season where I thought I would have punched a baby if I thought it would make LT just throw it away instead of forcing something that wasn't there.
Logan at least deserves time to get this offense to gel and become something resembling a cohesive unit. I think the next few weeks are a good opportunity to see that happen.
PUNTING WAS (AND STILL IS) WINNING AMIRITE?
I cannot remember Logan being benched at all when a game was still in doubt. Beamer & Co. have had plenty of chances to put Leal in there if they thought he would be a better starting QB....
But they haven't and that should be enough to tell anyone that Logan is the guy for the rest of this year.
He was benched during Spring Game. He threw 3 interceptions including 2 pick 6's. Leal looked so much better. So the coaches benched Logan.
I am dissappointed that Logan has not looked like that terrific player that we saw in that terrific 2011 stretch. In watching the game Saturday, I thought he was pretty accurate, and he did a better job of looking off receivers and going through his progressions. Yes, he missed a couple of check downs, but I am not sure that VT has the playmakers that could have moved the sticks if he makes those reads.
That said, problems with mechanics (and I maintain that the Sunseri INT was partly because Logan did not bring the ball up into a throwing position quickly for a fast developing route) continue to creep up. Most of them come when he gets pressure. When he adjusts in the pocket, the ball drops too low and he is slow to recover to a throwing position even when he steps into the pocket. He is also doesn't have great pocket presence, which has been a weakness of pretty much every VT QB back to Deshazo. It will get better, but Logan is a big, lumbering guy. He is a work in progress.
All that being said, the talent gap between the 2011 WR group and the current one is enormous. And, while Leal might be a player whose quickness allows some plays (read option with a QB keep threat to the outside, bootleg) to be more effective, I don't think he makes them more likely to win. I am not entirely convinced that he finishes next season as the starter (although he will be given the opportunity due to the inexperience of Motley, Ford, and Hodges.)
If anyone wants to get mad at someone, instead of getting upset with Logan, get furious with Coach Beamer for paying a receivers coach who did not land a single elite receiver recruit since 2008 other than Caleb, who is now a running back. Again, not announcing the firings of O'Cain, Newsome, and Sherman the SECOND that the UVA game ended will have long reachning consequences.
Yup.
I agree French once again, I'm not sure why so many think that Leal is a better option. I think Logan is trying to carry a group of young Wideouts that its extremely raw and inexperienced. I feel that they will get better a the season goes on buy gaining more game experience. As painful as it was to watch them play that way, we can't put that on Logan. I think Sherman was a big problem with our receivers, it shows how much they really knew from him when we actually get a REAL receiver coach I feel like he's having to coach then up on things Sherman should have been teaching them while he was here. So I take guys like Knowles redshirt year as a joke, because what did he really learn from Sherman and yes Boykins and Coales are in the NFL, but in my opinion not my Sherman's coaching. I think we as VT fans need to get behind LT and stick with him no matter what! And stop calling for his job when he doesn't play good even when its clearly not his fault.
I think the further we get away from 1999, the more changes we are seeing in the fanbase. We have practically a whole generation of fans that know nothing about football other than the SEC domination. It is frustrating to long time fans, but I try my best to ignore stuff like this. Coach Beamer has forgotten more about football than I will ever know, so I believe he is qualified to know what is best for our team.
Kids today are also all about instant gratification and nutty expectations. I remember at the Cinncy game some chic mentioning that every opponent pass, she expects an int.
Hate to be nutty, but I expect the same thing. But we have two Fullers on the field.
Thanks for the great post, but it seems to have gotten a few people down here fired up. I agree, the grass is always greener on the other side until you get there. I'll trust the coaches on putting in the best players over assuming that someone we as fans haven't seen much of will be better.
I promise you this wasn't my intention to divide our fanbase. I personally was just venting and getting this off my chest.
You didn't divide this fanbase....you didn't dictate the opinions of the people on here. Everyone who has posted already had those opinions before you ever thought about starting this thread.
No. You did a great job in articulating your point. Hopefully more will trust our coaches and players that they are making the right decisions to get this team where we all want it to be. There are tons of reasons why QB and offensive play hasn't be great (see French above). But you are right. Assuming change would be better is ludicrous.
but nobody outside the coaching room could honestly answer that
I think this is the most important point that you/Bitter made. The coaches get paid money to coach and if they thought Leal would be better then he would be playing. Keep in mind Logan was recruited as a TE and openly told all schools recruiting him that if they tried to recruit him as a QB he would flat out say no. Logan earned this job from the day he stepped in and no body has proven to be better.
As for WR's catching passes thrown in the dirt. I'm sorry but if you are paid to run routes, catch and block for runs, then you had better make a darn good effort to catch ANYTHING that is thrown in your vicinity. QB's don't do receivers favors by throwing off target but if it comes in contact with the receivers body, it's catchable and the elite WR's are the ones who make plays on any ball that comes in their area.
Downvote me if you want: But was Logan's performance last year not some of the worst quarterback play you guys have ever seen? It was for me. Countless overthrown balls, terrible reads, bad decision making, handing it off at the wrong time and keeping it at the wrong time, terrible mechanics, etc. It was disgusting. Then he sucked in the spring game. Then he sucked against bama. Granted, the receivers didn't help him out at all but I rewatched the game a few times and no matter how we try to justify it, he sucked against bama too.
I'm not going to chant for Leal but I completely understand why the fan base is against him right now. Then he went and acted like nothing happened after the game. Like it was okay for our offense to be absent when our defense was the best unit on the field. I'm not going to use the bama game as a reason to bench him because that's the best defense he's ever played and the best defense we'll play this year. But to say fans complaints are unwarranted is kind of naive.
We all claim to be such knowledgeable football fans - If Logan was loluva's quarterback playing the way he has been then we would be all over the site criticizing the shit out of him, be real.
nothing to down-vote here...People should only be down-voted for using inappropriate slurs or posting anything that's offensive in nature. That being said, I don't fully agree with you but we're just going to have to see how the rest of the season plays out.
Go Hokies.
Yes. I can agree that Logan was horrid at times last year. But he had to do EVERYTHING last year.
Think about it. In 2011 he had a first round running back, the two best receivers in school history, and 4 senior linemen, many with All-ACC accolades. He just needed to be a game manager, and he did a great job of it. He also was able to step up and contribute because he didn't have the added pressure of making everything happen. It's very representative of what AJ McCarron has been doing the past two years.
Fast forward to last year, Logan had 2 underachieving senior wide recievers, (One of which with a viral video that displayed just how horrid the effort on some plays was), Two freshman running backs, and 4 new, (and terribly coached), offensive linemen. He had to carry the entire offense on his own. Having the pressure of millions of fans and analysts to perform at the level of a top 5 draft pick on top of all that? Ridiculous. He had to do it all. He was a preseason Heisman pick by a lot of people as well. He did have some good moments last year, but he also had some terrible ones. Honestly though, I don't care if you're Tom Brady, if you have that much offensive turnover in a year, things are going to be ROUGH.
Against Alabama he looked significantly better than he did all last season, and that was with an entirely new offensive scheme in place. Do his numbers look bad? Sure do. Last place in the nation right now in QBR. But he still managed to look MUCH better than he did at any point last season in terms of his ability to hit the open receiver.
Again, nobody in the fan base should be against ANYONE. That kid is wearing your school's uniform. If you want pick apart the mechanical failures Logan makes, or not seeing someone open, or whatever, that is ok. I called for numerous players to be benched, but because there was evidence that someone behind them could potentially be a better option. And, if the kids whose performance I was critical of improved, I said they improved and rooted the kid on (see film reviews on Antone Exum early and late in the season.) But, SHOW ME ONE PIECE OF FILM that proves that Leal will be any kind of an upgrade. Anything at all.You can't. Nobody can, because he has not done anything in a scrimmage or spring game to demonstrate anything that he can do better than Logan Thomas, except perhaps get to the edge quicker on a bootleg.
"But was Logan's performance last year not some of the worst quarterback play you guys have ever seen? It was for me."
1) Nick Sorenson
2) Jordan Jefferson
3) Joe Dailey (UNC QB who giftwrapped one win for the Hokies a few years back http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbfHeHLHmIo )
4) Countless UVA QB's
5) Matt Simms/Jonathan Crompton
6) Reggie Ball
7) Seemingly every QB that has played at Mississippi State in my lifetime.
I am happy to keep going. I have not even touched on some of the bad QB's from Iowa yet.
By the way, the stat line for Sean Glennon in that 06 35-10 win over UNC?
10-17-0 ints 66yards -0 TDs
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/stats/showstats.html?6032
As someone who is an Iowa fan by marriage, I sadly must concur with French on the state of Iowa QBs. Not really a good one since Chuck Long....(sigh)
C'mon guys support your QB..... I find it disturbing to see a lot of these negative comments on here!!! After all, in only 4 short months LT3 will own a lot of records and go down as one of the better quarterbacks to ever come through our program.... jus' sayin'.....
Still think he looks like Robin Williams.
I see it! A very large, bearded Robin Williams!
Jesus christ guys we played ALABAMA. Not to mention we played ALABAMA in our first game with THREE NEW OFFENSIVE COACHES. It didn't look pretty but chill out. I'm defending Logan because he can't do shit if the pass hits his receiver in the hands and it's dropped. If his stat line still looks awful (at his fault) in October then I can see calling for Leal.
Exactly. I still have confidence in Logan.
I think Logan is the Hokie version of Tim Tebow; A lot of folks said Tebow couldn't throw, but he led the nation in pass efficiency one year (under Loeffler as well.) A lot of folks said Tebow couldn't be an NFL QB, but he was drafted in the first round, turned the Broncos season around, and led them to a playoff upset of Pittsburgh.
Like Tebow, I think Logan has a lot of "intangibles" that Hokie fans overlook; let's see what Loeffler can do to get the most out of Logan and this offense, and not judge the new offense based on the toughest matchup any team will face all year (which they statistically won by a few yards over Bama.)
Yeah but now Tebow is out of a job...cause he can't throw...
Drafting Tebow in the 1st round -- and getting fired before the end of the ensuing season -- will be Josh McDaniels' legacy in Denver.
Quick Facts about Tebow:
He worked one year with Loeffler, his SR year in 2009.
His QB ratings (with national rank):
2007 - 172.5 (2nd)
2008 - 172.4 (4th)
2009 - 164.2 (1st)
For those interested, Tyrod had a QB rating of 149.39 in 2009, good for 10th in the country.
I think those fans forget how much Logan did NOT want to play QB. He told VT coaches he didn't want to be QB during recruiting. He was projected as #1 TE and could have been top TE off the board in the draft. Yet here he is getting called to be benched.
He sacrificed and switched for the team. And fans last year and this year keep calling for him to be replaced. Unbelievable. He didn't have to switch. The faults of recruiting and coaching were not his, but he changed to make the team better. Just as Teller is now. What if Teller actually sucks on OL and people start calling for him to be replaced?
This is why VT has a bad name for moving kids around. And why it affects our ability to recruit elite kids. You don't think other recruits don't know that Logan didn't want to be QB and switched for the team? Now they see/hear fans wanting him benched... Stupid. Fans need to respect the sacrifice they make when they do these moves for good or bad. If you want to blame anyone it's Beamer and the coaches for not recruiting well enough, and Beamer specifically for not cutting the cord on O'Cainspring earlier.
Weighing in.
I sincerely think folks are making too big a deal out of ONE game which is an incredibly small sample. Further, the argument about the spring scrimmages and game is small samples as well, when one consider that Loeffler installed less than ten percent of the playbook.
I believe it was Joe who said on Twitter that the new coaches have to "unfuck the 7 years of fucked up coaching." He's right. O'Cain for all of his accolades didn't help Thomas. The confusing offense last season didn't help, the inconsistent running back rotation didn't help, the piss poor interior offensive line play didn't help, and subpar wide receiver play didn't help. Last season was a disaster in every sense of the word.
Loeffler arrived to Auburn tasked with converting a spread offense to pro-style with a quarterback who is now a safety. Malzhan, I believe tried to coach the same Quarteback before leaving for Arkansas State. Loeffler was the wrong hire for Auburn thank to Chizik for being an idiot.
At Virginia Tech where playing smash mouth football was the norm, Loeffler along with Grimes and Moorehead can build a vision an execute it. So far, early returns are positive.
Thomas in my eyes shown improvement over last season. He threw away passes to protect the ball. He slid for a first down, something a good quarterback are taught to do. That ill advised pass for a pick six was on Thomas and Coles both.
Finally, Thomas was never about himself. He did everything the coaches asked him to do. His journey to being a quarterback has been well-documented. The haters can choke on their hate.
I think some good points have been made on both sides of this argument here. Ill say it again, if the coaches thought Leal was a better option, he would be playing. These guys see both QBs every day in practice, theyve had numerous scrimmages and film to review, yet they stick with Logan. Logan has been, is, and will be the guy. Leal will be lucky to start next year (different topic entirely).
Think of all the things Logan has gone through. His first year starting he had one of the greatest RBs that VT has ever had and the two best WRs the Hokies have ever had. The running game opened up our passing game and the only reason our running game got going at all is because of D-Wilsons pure athletic talent; our O-line definitely didnt help him that much. Before we played our first game against Clemson that year I was telling everyone that they were going to make Logan beat them, they would basically throw everything they had at stopping Wilson and make Logan beat them. I thought they did that quite well. Logan played awfully against them and we lost. Same story a couple months later in Charlotte, though that was more on our defense IMO.
He then went into his second year and lost his RB. And sorry, but our running game situation was just horrible last year. Logan had to do it all himself, and he did the best he could given what he had. But when you have an OC who has no idea what hes trying to accomplish youre already behind. Our lack of talent on the field made it even worse. Everyone knew what we wanted to do. We only beat teams that were less athletic than us last year and by that I mean we beat anyone that Logan could run over like a grape. We couldnt beat anyone else simply because our offensive game planning was awful.
This year against Bama, Logan was running a brand new offense for the first time in a game. He was going up against the best defense hes seen and yet again, with injuries all around, had very little talent to work with considering who we were up against. His receivers let him down numerous times.
The point of all this is, that Logan is not the type of guy that can do it alone. Hes not Tyrod, he needs his O-Line to block so he can have time to find a receiver, he cant just slip away from 2 or 3 guys and then run for twenty yards. He needs a running game to keep defenses honest and allow receivers to come open down field on play action. He needs an offensive game plan that keeps the other team guessing. And guess what, pretty much every QB needs these things.
He didnt have the running game or game planning last year. The year before our O-line could not block well enough to keep Wilson effective against Clemson or to give LT enough time to find the open guy.
The only reason I could give Leal any sort of nod over Logan is his better mobility. In a broken play he is more likely to make something out of nothing. But the goal isnt to run broken plays, its to execute an offensive game plan and Logan is far better at that than Leal.
Just throw and catch. Don't over think it.
I think we should hold off on judgement until we see Logan in #allmarooneverything.
This post was obviously directed at me to an extent and I just want to make myself clear, I was never calling for Logan to be benched. All my comments were merely trying to talk some sense into people who still use the word "potential" with a guy who is in his 3rd year as a starting college QB. Just something to keep in mind, not many QB's who start >3 years in college improve dramatically in their last season. Something else to keep in mind, knowledgeable, impartial fans who watched our game last Saturday probably wouldn't have too many nice things to say about Logan's performance. Not trying to start shit; just stating what the majority of non-Hokie fans are thinking.
The argument about LT being benched if Leal outperforms him in practice is so laughable. Do you REALLY think that a softy like Frank Beamer would bench his 3rd year starter in favor of a player who has never gotten meaningful snaps? We're sitting around patting ourselves on the back for how intelligent the TKP community is and people still believe that. Too funny. Logan could show up to practice and proclaim that he is now going to start throwing left handed and Beamer would still start him come Saturday. You know who might not ever have gotten shots in the NFL if it weren't for injuries? Kurt Warner. Tom Brady. I am in no way comparing Leal to them, but those guys, especially Warner, got no love at all until they were forced to start.
I don't expect a repeat of this, but the reason that people were calling for Leal at the end of last year is because we had nothing to lose. While he could (and probably would have been) just as average as Logan, he at least offered some hope. What's happening now is that the fans who were calling for Logan to go at the end of last season are now split into two groups: those that pressed the reset button, and those that didn't. The former, like myself, are going to wait and see how he does before getting rowdy. The latter, though, are going to call for Leal until Logan proves himself. And those people are well in their right to do that since it's been over a season since Logan played well.
The issue I'm seeing with that "second group" that will wait until Logan proves himself, is that I doubt he'll ever do enough to keep them happy. Even if he did complete 62% of his passes, people will be calling for his head assuming Leal can complete 70%+. Also, I don't get using last year as such a strong argument for hating on Logan this year. Yes, last year was a disaster in every way possible for just about the entire team (I'd say Jack Tyler might be the only thing close to an exception). Different year, different (BETTER) coaches, different system. The improvement is easy to see already. No balls 15 yards overthrown (yes, he overthrew Knowles by a couple steps, which is exactly where you want to miss on a guy like that with that coverage. Every QB has throws he wants back), no balls thrown three yards wide, etc. I'm looking for LT3 (and his supporting cast) to silence a few doubters today, but the fact remains that some people will always assume that Thomas = Glennon and Leal = Senior Tyrod.
I don't disagree with either of your points, nor the original post. But I guess it comes down to the fact that Logan, for as much as I love the guy, still feels like a question mark.
Back when MV7 or Bryan Randall or Tyrod were in the game, the question on my mind was always along the lines of expecting them to do something great. It obviously didn't happen all the time, but each play was exciting because it felt like the end zone was the limit. With Tyrod, especially, it seemed like he would come up big whenever we needed him to deliver. Again, obviously, in hindsight, I'm sure I'm viewing his overall body of work favorably because, well, I think it was favorable overall.
But with LT3, every time he drops back to pass, I wince a little. My thoughts aren't, 'Here comes a big play,' but instead they're more like, 'Oh please don't do something negative'. Like I said, I love the guy, and I don't doubt he is definitely our best option, but I don't blame people for wanting to see Leal. I'd go as far as to guess that the motivation isn't in that anyone thinks Leal is better, but more that people want to feel optimistic when our quarterback drops back. It's been a long time since 3rd and 16.
I agree with what (I believe) French has said a few times here: Thomas isn't as natural at quarterback as a guy like Vick or Tyrod (I edited that a bit to fit my own personal view, but whatevs). He also doesn't have the insane athletic ability to 3rd and 31 it whenever crap breaks down. Knowing that, and the fact that he's had 6 months of competent QB coaching in 5 years, makes me less than surprised that his season isn't starting off too hot. I know exactly what you mean with the different feelings between QBs, cause I feel it too. That said, I've been getting more and more of a Tyrod feeling than a 2012 LT feeling from Thomas this year. Have the numbers backed that up yet? Nope. But I'm seeing improvement and, if his receivers can step up a bit (let's face it, Coale and Boykin bailed out Tyrod a few times too), I think we'll start seeing more and more big plays with a drastic reduction in negative ones.
He's the Leal Deal! Sorry i support Logan i just wanted a opportunity to say that. Note i am also aware the pronounciation doesnt make sense.