Saw this on our VT FB landing page:
Recruits surveyed at the Under Armour All-America Game gave some specific examples of how coaches lied to them during the recruiting process, including LSU telling one recruit it only offered players that attended the Tigers' summer camp, Alabama telling another prospect they were done offering defensive backs and then "offering a different player the next day," and Virginia Tech "lying about an academic major" to a prospect. Another recruit said "Tennessee lied about what type of lineman it was offering. They told me they didn't want inside guys and only tackles but offered a bunch of guards." One respondent said "Florida State told me it would offer, and I didn't get one."
Thoughts on this? I find it hard we'd do that and that it was just a misunderstanding. Do I have my O&M glasses on?
Comments
Not enough information to say. We either told them we have a major that we don't, or gave them unrealistic expectations on what kind of workload to expect.
Could also just be a misunderstanding. Seems to be a really odd thing to lie to a recruit about in the grand scheme of football recruiting.
Yeah, seems like a pretty strange thing to lie about. Honestly, about 90% of the time when a recruit mentions a specific academic program or major as a primary factor in their recruitment, I laugh. Didn't Hand give that as a reason for choosing Bama over us in 2013? Yeah, sure. Laborn also mentions FSU having what he wants to major in as a top 3 reason for choosing them...hmm, yeah. Seems like a weird thing to call a school out for even if true.
I've wondered what these majors are that football players are so eager to get into but aren't available at all schools. Poultry Science? (Von Miller has a poultry science degree from Texas A&M). Hospitality and Tourism? (I can actually imagine passing up other schools for Tech's program).
Especially when its something a recruit could easily discover online. Why lie about something that's public knowledge?
Could be heat of the moment over the phone and the recruit asks if VT has a specific major that sounds like something we have, but isn't actually the same (Biomed vs. Biochem, Aerospace vs. Aeronautic Engineering, Sports Medicine vs. HNFE, etc.) and the coach just says the wrong thing.
This was my exact thought. I can easily see it being HNFE/Sports Medicine. I've spent years explaining HNFE and I usually end up calling it pre-med.
I'll second (or is it third, since In1 already agreed with this point), this point. Kids don't understand that the exact title of the degree isn't as important as the content. I'm in a PhD program, studying Data Science, at a local university. I also have over 25 years of real world experience in the field, of Data Science. The program director asked me to join a conversation with a group of undergrads who wanted the department to offer a "Data Science" undergrad program. At the present time, a student can be a math or cs undergrad and essentially get a "data science" focused degree (my daughter recently graduated with this type of degree and has a "data science" focused job). The university could technically offer the degree, but the hurdles that they would have to negotiate, including demonstrating how the degree content is demonstrably different than current offerings, simply isn't viable. Even after explaining this to the kids, they were still upset that they couldn't have "BS in Data Science" on their diploma.
I strongly suspect that the perceived "lie" is that VT doesn't have a degree that literally contains the precise phrase that the kid wanted. I'll even go further to say that he likely had a specific degree title from the school where he'll commit, in mind when asking and that said program isn't meaningfully different than an option at any other major university.
While I'm on this soap box, I'll point out that the grad transfer rule is a joke, in this regard. You'll recall that a player who graduates may transfer if the grad degree that they desire isn't offered at the existing school. No two schools have exactly the same degree programs, so this requirement is meaningless (though if it makes the NCAA feel like they are setting an additional requirement in the best interest of the "student-athlete", then so be it).
We don't know the specifics and just because a recruit called it a lie doesn't mean it's true. I remember when we recruiting Andrew brown we didn't have his major, but they pieced together something very similar. Could be a situation like that.
My guess on this would be something more along the lines of us having the major we said we did, but a recruit having unrealistic expectations about what major would work given how much time in the fall is taken by football. I think most programs "guide" players to easier majors. Even if they're intelligent enough for more difficult programs, the time available may just not be enough.
This is similar to us having one player in the last 20+ years who was in the VTCC. There are just so many hours in a day.
All programs lie. Some are just better at it than others.
"What major do you want, we will just print it on your degree now"
- UNC
Take all my turkey legs!
I don't know if you have yours on but my O&M goggles don't come off and I think that "lying" about an academic major is probably much more likely to be "wrong" about an academic major.
I mean, I doubt these coaches know the course catalogue, and with VT being such a huge university, what major do they not have something similar to?
For example, there is no major in Environmental Engineering (as of 2012 at least) but you specialize in environmental with a degree in Civil. I'm sure something similar is what happened and the recruit took it the wrong way.
Having worked a college fair with a representative from the admissions office present -- I can attest that they really don't understand all of the majors we offer even in that department. Not a surprise if someone asked about a major and another major that is only related in name but not in function was quoted.
Yeah not to mention the uh... existence of the course catalogue. Why would we lie about something they can literally check on the interweb 10 minutes after the meeting?
That's my thought also.
1) Recruits should be researching the colleges that they are interested in to ensure that they have the major that they would like to obtain.
2) Why would a coach lie about something that is so easy to confirm?
Could this be from a recruit who didn't make an official visit? It's my understanding that when they take officials or campus visits that they have meetings to discuss the academic side of the university. It would be then that they could investigate themselves and ask questions.
Agreed, the quote is not a lot to go on, and I wouldn't put much stock in it without any further details. There's a lot of possibilities there, which could be perceived as "lying" by a recruit, either legitimately or illegitimately. Or maybe nothing really happened at all and a recruit just said something salty about VT after not getting an offer or something.
Personally I don't like the idea of some kid going out and just throwing out accusations, but what are you going to do -_O_-.
Odds on bet it was Tino Ellis (Maryland). Only one on the roster that we recruited hard over a longer period of time.
edit: Not that it matters, I was just curious
Were the surveys taken at this years UA All American Game or previous years? I thought Tino was at last years game?
I'm probably wrong the
Well if we did lie about anything, which I hope we don't do on purpose of course, at least it was about an academic major.
two points on this. First, the coach or person who was talking to the recruit may have not known and just assumed that we had a certain major when we didn't, or we did have something similar but it wasn't the exact thing the recruit was looking for.
Second, how many people change their major in college??? How many kids REALLY know what they want to do in life?? Unless you are looking to be a doctor or lawyer or something like that a lot of kids change their majors because they find out things they didn't know existed before or that what they thought they wanted to do they really don't.
Again, hate that we are listed here but at least it's not as bad as some of the others in telling a kid we weren't offering his position and then offer another kid in the same position.
Not overly surprised that athletic coaches aren't able to have a 100% accurate picture of what majors are offered here. There are many who work on the academic side who can't get it straight, either.
That said, I would hope a recruit would have already done his due diligence in making sure whatever he wanted to major in actually existed at whatever college he attended rather than taking a coaches word for it. This seems like an especially petty reason to turn down a school for what is most likely an honest mistake.
Jeez, I don't know how I feel about being the school that lies about majors. That's almost as bad as being the school that won't even say hi to a recruit's mom.
I mean at least we actually have majors to lie about cough UNC cough
Lol. And if you somehow don't place into our upper level, "Writin' Real Good" English class, we have our, "Ritin Perty Gud" course.
I'll take petty, backhanded excuses for $2,000, Alex.
Oh man, I'm really worried about this negatively impacting the program
So do most people watching this dismiss it as easily as we do, or is this significant negative publicity? I'd like to know if there is/will be a statement from the university.
I also expect the ACC to levy a $25K fine...
It is the maximum after all. They mean business.
The university gave a statement on the freaking Jose Fernandez tailgate sign. They'll give a statement for anything.
That coach should commit Seppuku for dishonoring their team and our great university !
I'd like more context. While the coaching staff should be familiar with the academic programs, there's a reason we have a very talented academic support staff, and that academics are a central part of a recruit's official visit. Want to know about VT's majors? Type "Virginia Tech majors" into the Google machine and voilà!
http://admissions.vt.edu/majors.html
Yeah, I'd prefer that they responded along the lines of "VT offers more than xxx majors, that can be adapted to almost any desired degree focus. For an exact answer to your question and possible major options, we need to talk to an academic program expert".
This doesn't seem like a big deal. Sure, the coach(es) probably should have made sure they were thorough with the answer. But, there is a support staff for a reason and the recruit should know anyway.
And for those interested, from the 2017 UA All-American Roster these are the names I recognized: Markquese Bell, Ellis Brooks, Khalan Laborn, Nathan Proctor Jr., Luiji Vilain.
I think we need to evaluate each claim individually:
Sounds like LSU didn't want to offer him
Sounds like Alabama didn't want to offer him
Sounds liks Tennessee didn't want to offer him
Sounds like FSU didn't want to offer him
Am I missing something here?
"I can't offer you...um...I need to wash my hair tonight. I mean...um...I have a headache. It's not you, it's me."
"Hey coach, I think you're using the wrong 'how to let a guy down easy' guide"
"I can't offer you tonight, I'm tired"
I was gonna extend the offer...
Petrino, is that you?
How about recruits saying "VT is my dream school", "Bud Foster is my favorite recruiter"," I see myself as a Hokie", and then sign NLI with other school?
or recruits who use twitter to essentially actively troll entire fanbases constantly throughout the process
Who follows recruit's twitter accounts?
Certainly not me... But I know this behavior gets relayed over here enough times in the recruiting threads its hard to ignore
who did this
So you're saying we as adults should justify lying to kids based on their indecision on making a large and important decision in their life?
PREACH!!
I hope that there's no one on the staff that's dumb enough to flat out lie about something as easily google-able as an offered major. We probably gave a very generous version of the truth, the prospect did his own research and called nonsense on us. If I had to guess it probably had something to do with a major we don't offer, say journalism, and how at Tech you could get degree that was functionally the same but not what the prospect wanted.
Everyone should go back and watch the movie The Program. Young Darnell Jefferson asks when he shows up on campus, "Man what happened to the band, the dancin' honies, and all the good *stuff* you used to get me here?" To which the response comes, "Well we got you now....."
Same thing that happens with recruiting students out of college for most companies. You get free stuff, and you get free stuff, and you get a steak dinner! Then they start work and ask why they don't get all of that anymore. That's how the world works.
Coach Cav admitted to and used to say basically the same thing.
Shane strikes again
As an implementation consultant, I can't count the number of times I've had to deal with the Sales team promising something that we did not offer...
engineers everywhere can echo this sentiment. Effing sales guys...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.c...
Laughing here and it is the age old argument. If we don't sell you are engineering custom burgers at Cookout!
No I totally get it. I tried working for myself and after 4 years, had to go back to cubicle land because I don't have the personality to make the sale and network sufficiently to keep business coming in. You gotta make that sale, but I do know sales guys that do quite well and still communicate with engineering before they promise the customer something that's literally impossible to design. As the video above says, "Well, by definition, a red line cannot be green, or it is no longer a red line..."
Copy and paste from other thread:
Take this with a MASSIVE grain of salt. Recruiting high school students is difficult. I do it for a living. These coaches have been here just about a year now. I fully doubt they have 100% memorized the correct name for all of our majors.
Many high school students don't have a clue what majors are called. I'm thinking this is an error in translation. For example, Cartoons Plural wants to study Pre-Med. Coach Bender says "HELL FUCKING YEAH WE HAVE PRE-MED!" X-Wing @Alicioussness wants to study Criminal Justice. Again, Coach Bender say "GOT THAT FOR YOU TOO BUDDY!"
Here's the catch, VT does not offer either of those majors by name. Look at the official list of majors. We have "Pre-Health Services" AKA Biology and Criminology. It is so easy to twist what a coach has said or mistakenly said to a recruit. I don't even need to know the recruit, just let me know what major the student said they wanted to study.
Oh man, I hate it when our name is in these things. But seeing that it is academic related, the Student should be relying on the admissions people and not the coaches.
If he can't figure out how to look up available majors on VT.edu, I hope for his sake he's interested in liberal arts.
Hey! I have a liberal arts major... and I can internet good.
We finally playing like the big boys!!
Meanwhile, Tennessee was voted the most annoying fanbase on social media.
More annoying than UVA?
Oh wait...you said fanbase. Nevermind...
And here's the proof http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2016/12/28/14099802/...
I call bullshit on the Tech major issue. All the courses of study can be found online. Did we offer the one kid without internet access?
Coaches not being experts on academic offerings isn't "lying".
You get information on the academic catalog from someone other than coaches.
So if that's the best you got, go somewhere else, where the academics are easier.
Probably some grain of truth but then 16 and 17 year olds are really know for being the brightest bulbs out there so likely some misinterpretation or misunderstanding
#understatementoftheyear