Well TKPers, it's the last college football game of the 2016-2017 season tonight. Clemson vs. Alabama for the Giant Tube of Lipstick trophy. At least Dabo won't get distracted by diamonds either way.
DIAMONDS https://t.co/TzwM8CN8dM— Tiger Talk (@TigerTalkSUR) January 1, 2017
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Game time: 8:00 PM
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Comments
Both suck but will pull for the ACC! Actually, I have no problem with Clemson, but that they beat us.
We can't count the "senior bowls"??? Pleaseeeeee it can't end already.
If Bama wins it is 5 in 8 years. If Clemson wins, it actually validates some quality football in the ACC.
I don't want Dabo to start a dynasty, but someone needs to stop Bama eventually, right?
Dabo won't start a dynasty because as soon as Saban retires he's gonna go to Bama.
I don't know. Bowden was just fine stomping out the ACC and being in contention every year for almost 2 decades. Dabo is young and charismatic and Clemson is going to keep him in the top of the coaching pay scale. He would appear to have the Tiger by the tail there.
Dabo is 2nd in salary in the ACC and behind 4 SEC teams if Bama wants him badly enough they can pay and pay and pay some more.
Sometimes it's less about money and more about coaching at your Alma Mater.
Talked to a friend from high school who went to Clemson and is an absolute nut when it comes to Clemson fandom. He told me this weekend it seems like a foregone conclusion that Dabo goes to Bama when Saban retires.
Definitely pulling for the Tigers tonight. With all the Clemson fans I've met, it's just been mutual respect between us.
But Bama?
I can assure you a large number of them consider our program an afterthought. All the Bama fans I know respect VT. So there ya go.
Interesting. I had the exact opposite experience. I have terrible memories of the fans at the '09 Bama game.
It's almost as if it's not good to paint everyone with a broad brush. But this is college football, so, I'm gonna go ahead and keep doing it.
I'm with you. Here in Atlanta, any Alabama fans I meet clearly think we're a minor league team of some sort. Clemson fans are the exact opposite. They know we'll always be a threat to win the ACC and respect us for that.
ROLL. DAMN. TIDE.
I know you hate Clemson, but this is going too far.
The Tide goes in, the tide goes out, you can't explain that.
I hear it happens about every 4 weeks...
I saw an LSU shirt once that said "the only crimson tide we fear is the one that comes once a month". And of course there's this one:
After experiencing Bama fans firsthand back in 2009, go Tigers. The Saban empire belongs in the ash heap of history.
How I view Clemson:
via GIPHY
What I want to see tonight.
via GIPHY
"Nope, nope, nope, nope. Forget this nonsense. I'm backing up"
- Elephant
So...Clemson wins?
I really despise the SEC, so I have a hard time pulling for Alabama. And while I should probably root for Clemson because they are in the ACC, I can't help but think that if they win the National Championship, it could negatively affect us with regards to recruiting. I guess I'm just hoping for an exciting game at this point.
I don't think recruiting can be affected all that much. There are certain programs right now that are going to get their choice of players, and Clemson is one of them. I think a lot of recruits respect how quickly Fuente has us turned around and they further respect how closely we played Clemson this year. And each team only has so many spots, so if Clemson's class is laden with 4* and 5* talent, well, to be the best you've got to beat the best, so let's stock up at VT and take them down.
Truth
Disagree. We were always going to lose recruits to Clemson because they're a better program than us...however, if we can pitch to recruits "we almost beat the national champions with a bunch of guys we didn't recruit, imagine what we can do if you decide to come to Blacksburg," that's a win for us.
i pulled for Clemson so i can tell people VT was the only team that put up 35 points on them in the post-season should they win
Looks like you got your wish on the "exciting game" part. As a Hokie with WAY TOO MANY family and friends that pull for Clemson, I confess to enjoying the Schadenfreude of watching them all suffer and moan through that game. Yes, they were insufferable when it was over, but you would have thought some of them were birthing babies from all the groaning going on prior to the final TD.
Any way both teams can lose?
Only if one of their coaches gets some inside information from the other team's radio guy
Savage, leg
I hope Alabama changed their oil the last few day because Clemson will be checking it.
Seriously. I like how their defense for it was "We've been doing it all year"
Boulware seems like a legitimately disgusting human being. It takes a lot to get me to root for Bama but I think I am there.
All I think when I think about Alabama fans is "You guys probably rooted for the Death Star too, huh?"
They also root for the dealer when they watch their friends play blackjack.
This has turned into a quality Hatin' On Bama Fans thread
Am I the only one who thinks the trophy looks like a...well, let's call it a "kitty"?
As the late Michael Jackson would say:
If they meet for enough years in a row, eventually they will figure out a way to both lose.
Let us hope it never comes to that and other teams take their places. Like us, for instance.
We've gotta wait for Miami first. I hear next year that they are back, so..
FTFY
Watching from the Palmer House Hilton in Chicago. Daddy got upgraded to the Junior Suite.
ATTENTION CHICAGO TKPers in the Key Players Club, party in French's hotel!!
86 paid nights at Hilton properties in 2016 and no suite upgrades for me
If I have to hear one more Alabama player say "trust the process".....
I feel like Clemson finally joined the "blue blood" fraternity of college football tonight, even if they don't win.
And just for shits and gigs, the programs I consider "blue bloods":
ACC: FSU, Miami, Clemson
SEC: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida...and maybe Georgia
Big 12: Oklahoma, Texas
Pac 12: USC
Big 10: OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska
Indep.: Notre Dame
Sam Rogers is a better hype man tbh.
Let's go Clemson! I'm nervous as heck???
I have 4 tuners and I still can't watch all the channels the game is on.
So much hate for Alabama, so much dislike of Clemson. Go Clemson I suppose.
Going to have to pull for Klempson tonight as much as it pains me.
Horrible play call on 4th down...
If only Gallman had kept his feet a little longer, would have made the Bama kid look like an ass for celebrating!
So. Many. Virginia. Boys...
Any chance the staff can teach Tremaine to run the ball? Kinda /s
Textbook definition of targeting.
Bama is like Duke BBall, they get their own rulebook.
...And Big 12 Refs
These ref's are bad. They are letting a lot of CHEAP shots go without any flags.
That would have been targeting against the VT D
Player is wrapped up and being tackled but is not defenseless?
The bands are playing over top of one another constantly and it's awful.
I don't want to say it's over after coming back from 24-0, but I'm a pessimist and I get the feeling :(
Bama's defense is truly a bunch of dudes.
Any chance the cheap shot to Deshaun Watson's head early on has him foggy ? Possible concussion
The shot to Williams was worse.
This game is over, and everyone already knows it. Big 12 refs will get a "stern" talking to after letting Bama headhunt in the 1st quarter
Yep, this game is over. Clemson just has no answers.
The return of Clemsoning
yeah after that td this game is pretty much over. clemson's two best offensive players very well may have concussions, playing catch up is going to be tough no matter how bad bama's passing is
Alabama is just so boring. They seem like robots. I'm tired of seeing them win.
You wonder at what point recruits will join the rest of the world and get bored with The Borg of Alabama winning every damned year. But then you remember that a lot of top recruits only care about making it to the league as fast as possible, and Bama certainly is the NFL developmental team these days.
This is what the Beamer game plan looks like when run by 4 and 5 star recruits
And a fan base who would pay thousands of dollars for Saban's used tissues.
They're gonna need those disgusting tissues now!!!
It's just not even fair. It's not UCLA MBB in the 60s and 70s or UConn WBB now, but it's damn close.
really souring the sport
Clemson's kicking/punting game is AWFUL
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
(were) Marching Bands on The Classico.
Y'all, I have to admit that I like Hunter Renfrow a lot.
Looked like a missed PI...immediately followed by a fumble. That's every call is important.
What's the being line on when this game ends? Holy tits, I'm going to be tired tomorrow
I ended up going to bed before the end of the game. They stretched it WAY too long.
Grumble, grumble, Danny Coale catch, Grumble Grumble......
Small fast white guys are the kryptonite to cyborg defenses.
How do we get the NCAA to switch to the NFL challenge rules? Way too many plays are reviewed
I think this is a major problem with the college game. Refs are pretty good, pace of the game trumps getting every single call right. Stopping everything questionable makes the game unwatchable
Run with that momentum!!
P.S. Why didn't they start this game at 7 or 7:30... Working tomorrow morning will be hell.
Can't compete with wheel of fortune.
Looked like entirely targeting again on Watson. It was solely crown to helmet contact when he got jacked up and the player launched with both feet.
Targeting needs to be called 1000 times more often to eliminate hits to the head or stop calling them at all. The inconsistency is maddening.
I swear, this season it seems they call the questionable ones and don't call the obvious ones.
They will never consistently enforce the rules on Nick Satan coached team
Bud's rolling in his
graverecharging alcove right now (re: Clemson defense).That was the best Pick I have seen in quite awhile. Really shocked it was not called
Leggett sticking his hands up when it was thrown like he was expecting the pass was hilarious.
May be the offensive scheme, but these Clemson defenders repeatedly bursting into the backfield and running right past the guy with the ball. Makes my stomach hurt.
TOO. MANY. REVIEWS.
Seriously. Even Kirk "Slurps the SEC" Herbstreit is calling them out on it. Ruining all continuity and allowing alabama to set their D and recover. Imagine if bud and his boys had 30 seconds every down to regroup and plan.
This game may last until the start of next season holyyyy moly.
Yeah not liking that Clemson is probably going to win. This doesn't help us at all in recruiting and doesn't help our reputation. FSU didn't help us and neither will this. In fact it'll just mean more kids from our region heading to South Carolina to play in college.
But yeah, not Alabama is winning... Meh, rather have the beast we know than the one we don't. Be careful what you wish for.
For all the complaints about Clemson taking all of VA's players, they have 4 on the roster.
Meanwhile, Bama has 3.
Clemson doesn't have a recent national title in their pocket... It'll be a lot worse when they do.
I'd much rather see them continue being the bridesmaid than the bride
It really killed the SEC. Best an SEC team should hope for is 3rd behind an ACC Team
This is exactly what I was saying in above comments! This is not good for us!
Dabo and his recruiting staff with a national title?
They just won the Atlantic seaboard for the next 4 years in recruiting. As good as our season was we just lost ground on the top of our own conference let alone nationally.
I'm agreeing with you. Hurts our recruiting.
Yeah I know, I'm agreeing with you, too. Hurts everything for us. Clemson is now where we should have been 10 years ago. They took the step and we never did. They were already kicking our ass on the recruiting trail and now they have a national title. They are a regional rival of ours and they just locked down the entire damn region. No matter how you slice it this one directly hurts us more than anyone else who has won a title the last 15 years.
I thought about this so hard and couldn't figure out who to root for, but I honestly don't think it really matters much. As others have said, Clemson was still going to out recruit us if they lost this game. Had Bama won, how would you feel about Hunter having his last OV later this month with them fresh off another title? Fact of the matter is, we have a ways to go to catch up to this level. We need to close this recruiting class and keep building, and hopefully we can kick the defending champ's ass in Lane this fall (and sell that to recruits.) We were one play away from beating these guys, let them enjoy their glory and we will see them on our field this fall.
Just remember, it didnt happen over night
It also happened because they started recruiting like a powerhouse before they started playing like a powerhouse. Numerous Top 10 and Top 5 classes while landing at least one top overall recruit (Watson) got them there.
We like to say we're turning this big corner and that we're following in the footsteps of Clemson. We're not. They went all in and began operating like an Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, before they started having the success they needed on the field to be where they are now. Right now we're crowing about having a class that has the outside potential to be a Top 20 class nationally. For a program like Clemson, that would be a disappointing year.
We might be able to beat them on any given day on the field, but they have staying power, and we have to pray for things to fall right to have a chance. Eventually, if we want to be considered the kind of program we all want to be, we have to act like it, and we have to act like it knowing full well that there very well may be a delay between us acting like it and us playing like it. And the first step in this process is for us fans to nut up and contribute financially to help the program have the funds necessary to act like it.
But you can't realistically expect us to go from where we were last year to a top 5-10 recruiting class in one year. It's just not going to happen. This is Fuente's first year, and the fact that we have a chance at a top 20 class is absolutely impressive. I also think we are ahead of schedule as far as on the field play, and I think Fuente and Foster are going to ensure the best play possible out of the talent we have until recruiting catches up. I do agree that the fanbase needs to seriously step up their game and donate to the Hokie Club, but I'm incredibly optimistic from what I saw in year one on the field under Fuente and the position he has us in recruiting-wise right now. Things are looking up. We were not going to go from the mess in the latter Beamer years to Clemson in one year.
Oh agreed that it wasn't going to happen in one year, but my point is that to be where we want to be, we have to take a giant leap and recruit far better than we have in our history. If we want to be a legitimate title contender, we must raise our profile to a program that recruits with the best of them, and that means being a team that can routinely pull in multiple 5* talent surrounded by a swarm of 4* players every single recruiting class. That is how we get to where we want to be, and until we are there, our legitimate ceiling is Coastal Winners with an outside shot of pulling the upset in the ACC title game.
The class we are looking at this year appears to be a great start. However, this needs to be a springboard towards recruiting momentum that carries us to better overall classes in future years rather than a new high bar. To put it in perspective, Clemson already has the #1 QB recruit coming in this year, and they already have a commitment from the #1 QB recruit (and #1 overall recruit) for next year.
Agreed. I think this 17 class can absolutely be the huge springboard we need. We close on an elite guy like Hunter, combined with the momentum we seem to be picking back up in the 757, and I think things are looking promising. Having a future 5* recruit like Tank Land committed and very pro-VT also looks good for future classes. I think Statement17 is a great title for this class, because if we close on all these top guys, that will most definitely be a statement that VT is on its way back.
That reminds me of this old post I made, but wasn't liked back then
Original Thread
You are so far off the deep end man. Dabo took over a mediocre team that recruited well. He went 9-5 and the next year had a losing season. His first two recruiting classes were ranked 31st and 28th. It wasn't until the breakout in 2011 that they picked up the recruiting. And even then, it took a blowout loss to West Virginia and the luck to happen upon two top-shelf coordinators in back to back years to establish what they have now. Took time, a bit of luck, and yes money. But it wasn't an immediate thing.
247 recruiting rankings: Clemson is currently 14 and Virginia Tech is 15. Just sayin
edit: 247 ranking. Not composite. Just to be clear.
VT is 25 in 247, not 15.
25 in 247 composite
That's the composite ranking. 247 rankings alone we are 15. Composite includes other recruiting sites' rankings. 247 seems to be the most thorough/accurate these days.
I don't know if Numerous is the right word
0 top 5 recruiting classes
Kinda like Auburn/Texas/Texas A&M/Notre Dame all have staying power?
Been less than the hour and you've already spun this as a negative. Better football in the acc is a good thing. Now we get to host the reigning national champions next year, that's awesome!
Fuck Bama. Fuck Clemson. Where's the meteor that would make this game enjoyable? (Disclaimer: I'm joking)
That is all.
And there you go
Virginia Tech being a national player just became a whole hell of a lot harder
#28 lost the game for Bamy. Well, that and Bama's D turning into swiss cheese in the 4th.
I honestly don't think it matters all that much. Clemson was going to take the players they wanted regardless of what happened here tonight.
This tops one of the best bowl seasons any conference has ever had. Fuente can get out there and tell people how competitive the Hokies already are with the best team in college football, and the ACC looks like the best conference in the country for the time being
The good guys have a lot of hard work still to get to this level, and Clemson winning does not change that in any way
Recent coaching hires have been great for the ACC (except lolUVA); the ACC appears poised for a good run.
To be the best you gotta beat the best
I guess we'll just have to beat the fuck out of them in Lane next season.
That's going to be a near impossible task. Not only do they have the #1 QB recruit coming in among a boatload of other elite talent but now they're going to secure a few others who are going to bandwagon on. Oh and the ACC is going to ref protect them for the next 4 years or so from this, so that'll be fun.
Not really seeing the silver lining here. This one sucks. And their fans are obnoxious in your face pricks, too.
You're right. The sky is falling.
Hahhhaaaa seriously. I guess the only thing left to do is stop watching college football altogether.
Ah, well. Fun while it lasted.
Bud Foster eats freshman quarterbacks for lunch. That's far from my main concern about that game.
I guess that's what Auburn says about Bama every year, right? Give up now?
Who the fuck said anything about giving up? I said it would be harder for us to recruit our region, and that's not really an incorrect assumption. We had a tough hill to climb as it was, and the hill just got a little steeper.
I didn't say we can't do it, but I prefer the path of least resistance, and Clemson losing rather than winning would have provided that.
It actually might help us recruit, because Clemson is going to be getting more attention from top-tier players outside the region. Why would they take that 4-star rated player from NC when the 5-star from Texas just committed?
NCAA football score: Instant Classic
AN ONSIDE KICK TO END THE GAME?
That was beautiful. "Nobody touch it...nobody block..."
That one was for 2016 Saban.
what
a
game
I always thought Jonathan Allen was a little light in the ass. /ssssss
We took this team to the freaking brink, wow.
So did NC State.. and Pitt.. That's why college football is so much fun!
Ohio State didn't. hahaha. zing!
You mean THE only school to not score a point in bowl season?
THE Only Scoreless University?
Meanwhile the end of this game is the biggest coitus interruptus in the history of sports.
Football is fun.
Hokies...next up to the plate
Somebody has to win it all. I would rather it be a team outside the SEC no matter who it is so we can lay the whole "It just means more" 6 feet under the ground. Congrats ACC you are the premier league for 2016. I hate the SEC.
VT > OSU when they won the national title.
VT > Pitt > Clemson when they win the Natty.
About that transitive property . . .
and OSU > Mich > Penn St > OSU
my head hurts
Good lord, that pick was so illegal. What are you gonna do, as if offenses need anymore help. He full arms extended tackled the db, what a joke.
The officials let a lot stuff go all game. Multiple obvious holds and PI's were ignored on both sides. Why is it let them play okay for a championship when it is not for the regular season? Hard to believe these were some of the top officials in the country.
They wanted to keep the game under 5 hours!
Then why did they review every single first down catch Clemson made? Either the integrity of the game is important or the TV viewership is important. You may be right, and the ESPN just forgot to tell the booth to lay off the reviews.
I'm still waiting for a targeting call on Bama. Clearly they can go crown to head at least 3-5 times a game and the officials think nothing of it.
especially from a team coached by a guy who is so high on player safety
I agreed. The WR pretty much tackled the DB as soon as the ball is thrown.
I watched that play a dozen times and never once saw any arm extension. I even went back and rewatched the Florida State vs Notre Dame game from 2014 to see if I was being biased, and in that one the receiver made a clear block with arms extended. Clemson's guys did an excellent job of not extending the arms and making it a block, even the rule book says it has to be "obvious" and it wasn't.
That's bullshit. If you can block db's the way Clemson blocked their last two touchdowns, you could score with that play 10/10 times given your QB can get the ball there. The "rub" routes, which are legal, are running a receiver into the way of the db, but they can do that because it's "incidental" as they are running a route. On Mike Williams' TD, Leggett straight set two basketball picks, no attempt to run a route or make a football play. On the Renfrow game winner, Artavis Scott extended his arms and full on low blocked through the defender. Absolutely not legal.
Alabama wasn't even playing defense, they were tackling receivers in an attempt to draw PI and waste time to force Clemson to kick a fg. Clemson saw what was happening and ran the perfect play to counter it. And Scott fell and threw his arms out at the ground, a far cry from what draws a flag, which is engaging the db with his hands as a receiver blocks.
Though this is wrong, it's funny for multiple reasons.
1. They SHOULD have been doing this, but they weren't. The 49'ers did this before to force a field goal or something.
2. The PI they called on the previous play was bullshit, it may have been a bit of a hold, but Mike took a dive big time, not to mention it was uncatchable, but refs never call that because in today's game, every time a pass goes incomplete everyone expects a PI, which is sad. Either way you view it, this was in no way an intentional PI, though it would have been a good idea.
Mike ran by and the db so he grabbed him by the waist, not even attempting to run with Mike. It was blatant, textbook, intentional pass interference. Furthermore, in the final play the Bama player grabs the receiver by the shoulder pads and throws him down. There's a good explanation here
http://www.sbnation.com/2017/1/9/14221614/clemson-alabama-pick-play-pass...
more like the DB tackled him. WR didn't extend his arms, the DB did, and pulled/shoved the WR down. Also note that the WR collided with the DB who was lined up across from him. That DB tried to jam him off the line and disrupt his slant/crossing pattern. The WR didn't go out of his way to collide with the DB covering the slot WR he just ran an inside route (and his defender committed a holding penalty against him)
That final play and the one earlier in the game were run the way those plays are supposed to be run. Outside WR slants hard inside and sits down looking at QB. Slot WR comes underneath. That forces the slot DB to go over the top of the WR/DB pair and creates separation for the Slot in the flat.
All the defense has to do in this situation is handoff coverage responsibility or play zone and this play doesn't work.
There is a little bit of leg to the argument that Humphrey initiated the contact with Artavis, that said, you're operating in a very, very thin margin of gray area. If Tay had touched him first would it have been a flag? Either way, he was not running a route, he was blocking a db. The Leggett pick may have been more egregious, no attempt at a route, it was a literal basketball pick, which is not legal.
The Legget play he literally turned around and put his hands up. While the intent was to pick, he absolutely completed a route. If that's illegal then receivers wouldn't be allowed to run routes off of press man.
But HE DID THE PRESSING. He 100% initiated contact and drove him backwards. That is a block, who gives a shit if he turned around at the end. Window dressing on what was 100% a block the entire way.
Bama db punches him in the shoulder to jam him at the LOS and Legget responds by running into him, jamming was absolutely mutual. If that's illegal then there would be no way to run a stick route in the red zone. That play was iffy, but in general a pick play isn't called unless it's blatantly obvious which this wasn't.
I still 100% believe that both of those plays could have been called OPI, and you're not going to convince me otherwise, especially with PI being such a subjective call as it is. Similar to the way basketball games are reffed tight and some are reffed loosely.
I'll pose this question, and your actual written response is meaningless because you can say whatever you want, but I am pretty damn confident if we lost the NCG because of a team getting two touchdowns like that in the 4th quarter, you would not be happy that those were no calls. Those picks created significant separation, artificial separation created by questionable contact. I've seen pick plays get flagged for less egregious contact.
I agree they could have been called, my point is that they weren't egregious. Egregious is Notre Dame's version against Florida State. This was a questionable call in a game with several that went Alabama's way. And yes, if we were in Bama's position, I probably would be angry, but I'd also be wrong, even if hypothetical me doesn't want to hear it. The bigger problem, as with much officiating in college football is that the rules aren't always evenly enforced across conferences and games and I've seen teams do exactly what Clemson did without getting a flag and I've seen teams do less and get a flag, so who knows.
#1 you're allowed to make contact (offense & defense) within the 5-yard cushion. Otherwise jamming at the line of scrimmage would result in a flag every time. Basically blocking rules are allowed. Pushing/obstructing/colliding but not holding or pulling.
Second, when it comes to Pass Interference, the ball has to be in the air for there to be pass interference. Alabama committed it on the first play, and committed holding on the second play. Clemson committed no pass interference.
By the time the ball was thrown on play #1, Leggett had established position and was no longer battling with the defender, he was looking back at the QB ready to receive a pass. He was also within the 5-yard cushion perimeter (scrimmage from 4 yard line, Leggett looks for the ball at the goal line.) Oh, and had the ball been thrown to Leggett, the Alabama defender, #29 commits pass interference on Leggett by running into him while the ball is in the air... Penalty - defense.
By the time the ball was thrown on play #2, the WR (Cain?) had been dragged to the ground by the defender committing defensive holding, so he couldn't look back for the ball. Penalty - defense.
Another key is that in both cases the outside WR only collides with the Alabama defender who is covering/jamming them at the line of scrimmage. They don't directly go after or block the defender covering the players running the under-flat routes from the slot.
Much respect to Clemson, dabo, deshawn and little hunter. Great freaking game.
I disagree this is bad for us. This solidifies the ACC as the best football conference in the country. Can only help all teams recruiting just like SEC recruiting has been dominant during their reign. Bama wasn't the only team in the SEC with top recruiting classes. So did LSU, Florida, Georgia, auburn, ole miss, and Tennessee. Players want to play for AND against the best.
Clemson totally beat that ass in time of possession....
sigh... i long to know what it feels like to have my team win a championship
We scored more on Clemson than 'bama did:
VT>Bama
Tide got rolled...
Just like they always wanted, right?
This bowl season you can't spell collapse without SEC
Congrats to Clemson, that was an incredible game.
Best possible outcome for the good guys. Now Fuente can go into recruits' living rooms and say:
"We almost beat the national champions with a bunch of kids I never recruited. Imagine what we can accomplish if you commit to Virginia Tech."
Somebody downvoted this?
Have a leg to cancel it out.
Folks downvote perfectly reasonable opinions on here sometimes. The guidelines say they shouldn't. And most people don't. But some do.
Folks also read TKP on their phones a lot and can accidently fat-finger a downvote. Best not to worry about the occasional one.
Leg.
And some of them get their backs up about an opinion they're yelling that others don't share and decide to do a little downvoting. It was a real thing on here for a while last night. That also happens.
It's pretty simple: if you fat-finger a downvote, you fix it. You leg it up to negate the mistake. Unless it wasn't a mistake.
Absolutely not looking for a fight here. I read and post here because this is a friendly, well-informed & level-headed site. This stuff happens, though.
Wow what a game. Instant classic.
Clempson can only ever start 11 guys on each side of the ball. I think there will still be a good amount of quality recruits around even after clempson takes their pick from the coastal states, so im not particularly convinced this drastically affects recruiting.
That was a great 4th quarter. I love Virginia Tech, but I also love the game, and seeing the receivers come down with some of those balls is a thing of beauty regardless of who's playing.
And I think that being a strong team in the best conference is an aid to recruiting. The whole SEC thing used to be that every game would be a chance to prove yourself in a meaningful game against the best competition, week in and week out (whether true or not). Isn't that what we want?
100% agreed. I don't buy the Sky is Falling rational at all. Clemson winning is good for any team in the ACC. They can only take a finite number of players a year and the ACC being in contention and winning the championship will draw more attention from recruits.
As much as we all loathe the $EC bias, it was at least partly based on reality. Some years those top schools were absolutely stacked. Tenn beat us this year laden with higher profile recruits and they went 4-4 in the conference.
Therefore, if we are the clear cross division rival for the ACC crown year in year out and the ACC champ is in playoffs and /or winning the National Championship, we should get the recruits coming to us more now than ever.
Florida, Auburn, Tenn to name just 3 schools all had at least one 5* recruit and numerous 4* recruits. They didn't win the conference championship. They have been sitting bridesmaid to a dominant Bama team for years now. Isn't that level of recruiting class what we are always drooling over, dreamily asking "what if"?
On top of all that ACC teams winning the championship will eventually lead to better tv deals (if we can overcome the Swofford School of Shit-tastic Contract Negotiation) that will lead to more money to every ACC school. Isn't that precisely the other thing we are always clamoring for? more athletic dollars to spend?
The TV dollars will come when we have the viewers to back it up. Winning is only half of that equation, the other half is fanbase, and there's more large, avid fanbases in the SEC than the ACC. Winning will certainly help draw more casual viewers, but I doubt we'll quite get SEC-level deals unless the SEC falls to the #4 or #5 conference on a regular basis.
Great point about the fanbases. Schools like Wake, Duke, LOLUVA, BC, Cuse, Pitt, and even Miami to a large degree have small fanbases with little football support. This is one of the biggest things that separates us from the SEC and the B1G. SEC and B1G have one small private school each (Vandy, Northwestern). The ACC has 5 (Wake, Duke, BC, Cuse, Miami). Add in the fact that UVA just doesn't care about football, and Pitt's fanbase is fairly small and doesn't travel in droves for bowl games.
Those network deals are about far more than football. The ACC cashed in because basketball is elite and our Olympic sports package is second to none. The ACC provides any television network legitimate year round programming that people would want to watch rather than just replaying football games and highlights throughout the year when its not football season and there aren't any contractually obligated basketball, baseball, or softball games to air, like the B1G and SEC Networks.
Are they though? I can't imagine the Olympic sports bringing in any significant amount of revenue, and at some level ESPN may actually be providing a service to us merely by supplying the video equipment and broadcast crews and opening it up to a larger audience via ESPN3, therefore generating additional exposure.
Football is certainly the cash cow when it comes to television revenue for college sports, with basketball a distant second. Otherwise the SEC wouldn't be so far out front with their funding, with the B1G coming in second.
The schools have to build updated studio and recording space at the their own expense FYI. For some sports the broadcast crews will be Techs people also. As for revenue for Olympic sports if they run a commercial during its broadcast it's making revenue.
Yep and that's where the ACC's network has potential value over the others. Our conference is set up to offer year round live programming that people would watch whereas the others are going to have legitimate 'down' seasons. The ACC right now can roll football to basketball to baseball showing multiple legitimate national title contenders in each. And even then, you could sprinkle in mens and women's soccer, lacrosse, and people would absolutely tune in. As you said, the opportunities to sell advertising for a year round network like that are a lot better than a seasonal one.
Yes, the commercials generate revenue, but that revenue goes to ESPN. My point is, whatever portion of the TV contract with ESPN comes because of the Olympic sports is a drop in the bucket compared to football and to a much lesser extent basketball.
From the information I could find, the ACC is making around $240M per year on TV contracts. The Big Ten and the SEC both recently signed new agreements worth over $400M per year, with fewer schools in all major sports but football where they all have 14. Olympic sports and basketball success haven't been enough for us to keep up financially as a conference so far, so the missing piece is football, at a deficit of over $160M.
Not looking for an SEC level deal. Just something more than an ACC level deal. Otherwise I agree.
Me @ the UT fans on my Facebook timeline who are still saying the SEC is the best conference in college football despite the ACC having a 9-3 bowl run and a national championship:
With a 9-3 bowl record the ACC had more bowl wins as a conference than 13 out of 14 SEC teams had regular season wins.
So, does this add Saban to the hot seat or just the assistants?
Legit question right here. I mean, the OC got canned a week ago.
/s
You know Kiffin was at home eating popcorn enjoying this...
We sure he wasn't on the phone with Venerables telling him what plays they run out of which formations? /s He did get canned a week ago so he couldn't have another natty ring.
Damn being an adult, fell asleep with like 13 minutes left in the 4th.
Me too. Passed out on the couch after OJ Howard made it 24-21. Woke up at 1:30 watching the postgame celebration.
That game lasted FOREVER, they need to deal with these 5 hour games.
Also, Clemson won the TOP handily, with about 35 minutes. And points.
The mighty ACC took down the behemoth!
Wonder how long the Belk Bowl and ACC Championship lasted. Both featured lots of scoring, reviews, questionable penalties, and either an SEC team or Clemson. (I'm trying to blame ESPN/advertisers rather than the footballs.)
Belk ran over 4 fricking hours. Unbelieveable! Ridiculous.
Belk was 3:55 from kick to final whistle; CFP title ran 4:08. By comparison the ACC title was 3:36 and tOSU playoff was 3:24 (about avg).
Those latter ones don't sound too bad, but most of us probably tuned in at or before 8pm Monday, and it didn't kick until 20 mins later. I think "TV" was as much responsible for this one as the refs for making it feel "over 5 hours". Consider that a regular ACC contest might begin coverage at 3pm and kick at 3:02, with another game on the same network right behind it.
Games were 7mins longer on avg this year, with the same # of plays; that is a fact. But TV can't be discounted in any plans to fix game length, and with the millions of extra viewers for these marquee games it definitely skews the perception.
I definitely tuned in early. I went back last night to watch the 4th quarter since I slept through it, and the recording of the game said 3:54, although it was over well before that and the postgame celebration was on the recording. Without actually paying attention to the time, I think it was probably about a 3:30 game.
I'd read a couple months back that the average cfb game last about 4 hours, compared to the nfl which averages just barely over 3 hours
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18421234/commissioners-c...
Most conference
commiihoners(or commissioners, even) agree with you. Average game time in 2016 was 3 hours, 24 minutes.Really regretting not paying more attention in high school spanish right now...
olé!
Passed out at halftime. The three year old woke up at 11:30 and at first I was pissed, then I realized I had an excuse to catch the 4th quarter...
The baby woke up a little after midnight so I saw the score but caught the last 5 minutes of the game just now on ESPN.
So much Tiger Spluge, so many $EC excuses. Gonna be an interesting offseason...
Sounds messy
So...does this means Clemson would beat the browns now? /s
No but Watson could end up on the Browns. Since he is projects late first to early 2nd I could see him ending up there with the first pick of the 2nd round. Poor kid
They may draft him as a punter after last night.
I had a hard time deciding who to pull for last night. I'm sick of alabama, and if VT isn't playing, I always pull for the underdog...but I despise clemson.
But that question got answered in the 4th quarter, when I was openly pulling for alabama.
On a related note, my 7 1/2 month pregnant clemson wife was not talking to me this morning.
Honestly, I don't think Clemson winning had that much of a deleterious effect on our recruiting as some are making it out to be. This was our pitch before last night:
How has any of that changed just because Clemson won it all?
And on the flip side, it's nice for Clemson to be able to claim the championship, but you can't promise winning every year, just being in contention. No one was using Clemson getting to the NCG last year and losing a close one as recruiting ammunition. It's not like they were erroneously selected for the CFP despite not even winning their division and then subsequently got shut out by a team that actually deserved to be there...
Because they'll land even more top tier VA recruits now apparently? I don't buy it. We're losing in state talent to FSU, Bama, and Clemson already anyway. This doesn't change anything. Hell, now you can throw "Chance to play 2 out of the last 4 national champions." on the pile of pitches.
When Dabo took over at Clemson, they were not an elite destination. Nor was Alabama when Saban took over. To be an elite recruiting school you need to have elite recruiters. Period. It remains to be seen whether Fuente and his staff are that or not, but it will take several years to find out. In the meantime, let's enjoy the 10 wins, the exciting offense, and the promise of better things to come.
Clemson pulled a top 10 class before Dabo was hired...
Clemson was never a juggernaut during recruiting. According to Rivals, in the 5 years before Dabo took over (2003-2008, 2004 excluded b/c rivals.com won't display it), Clemson's recruiting classes ranked 70, 17, 18, 17, 12.
For reference, In this same time, VT's classes ranked 28, 14, 35, 30, 18,
The point is they were already out recruiting us when they weren't winning shit and we were winning conference titles. Dabo didn't drag them from poor recruiting. He elevated already very good recruiting. Lets wait until we can put together 4 straight top 20 classes.
That's more a result of Beamer's decision to NOT aggressively expand our recruiting footprint after the '99 season. We could have leveraged the Vick years into recruiting at a national level, but Frank believed he could win it all by owning the 757 and selectively recruiting Florida, Pennsylvania and NY/NJ. Once other programs started poaching the 757, our brand had lost the gravitas to make up for that by recruiting other hotbeds.
Fuente has immediately changed that strategy. We're pulling in recruits from a wider footprint. Fuente is using his ties to Texas and Oklahoma while utilizing Zohn Burden to establish inroads to the 757 that started to deteriorate in Beamer's waning years. The strategy has been modernized.
Where we are in recruiting is self-inflicted.
So at a time where we were dominating the ACC and Clemson was essentially an also-ran in an Atlantic Division that was won by Boston College twice and Wake Forest once they were managing to regularly out-recruit us?
This is where the "just win and the recruits will come" mindset falls flat.
And while I wouldn't call those classes for Clemson 'juggernaut' status, it includes a 4 year stretch unlike anything we've really ever experienced. This year, we're getting worked up because we might get a Top 20 class, which was essentially their bread and butter before they realized even that wasn't good enough. Once Dabo was hired, they realized they needed to make serious fundamental changes to how they approached recruiting, and even then it still took a couple years for it to kick in.
Now I'm not saying we won't do it, but the more the topic is brought up around VT, the more I hear excuses to why we can't.
They could have lost the GOLD ball caps!
Dragging ass this morning, but I'm glad I stayed up for that one.
I actually said something similar to this before the game:
Although I think the college football world is more like the montage leading up to the Ewok Celebration.
And lest we forget...
Our chance to take the belt is coming in 2017, as VT becomes the first team in the CFP era to host two defending national champs.
Just one request.... Yes, it was nice seeing Clemson knock off Alabama, and while I do worry about what this will do for recruiting in our region, lets remember one thing. The over the top conference pride from fans of teams who didn't win anything puffing their chests because another team in their conference won it all is what made everyone hate the SEC to begin with, and I don't want the ACC to become that. So congratulate Clemson on their win, enjoy the schadenfreude from Bammer, Finebaum, E$ECSPN, but lets not go all A-C-C on everyone. Those people are the worst.
So what you are saying is we should not make a commercial with some hot blonde saying how our conference is better than everyone else?
Saying no to a commercial with a hot blonde is un-American... :)
While I get what you're saying and even agree to an extent, I still reserve the right to revel in the fact that the ACC won the NC and had a better bowl record than any other conference. Am I going to beat my chest and boast about the ACC being the best conference? No. Will I argue that the ACC is on an upswing and the days of constant SEC dominance are numbered?
Oh yeah, absolutely. If someone is going to ask the question, you have to respond that the ACC has established itself as the best conference, and its likely been this way for a couple of years now. Just don't be the one who has to shove it in everyone elses' face at all times like those SEC-holes did for so long.
But... it's so much fun
ACC! ACC! ACC!
If we football well as a conference, we will be hated...period. Its simple jealousy. The same that makes you hate SEC fans and say things like E$ECPN.
Oh good gracious, THIS. This all day.
So, raise your hand if you went to bed early in the 4th Q because nobody ever comes back against Bama.
No? Just me? Alrighty then.
I stayed up, and got seriously rewarded.
That game was worth a watch to the last remaining second. Clemson's clock management was pretty exceptional.
I went to bed at 24-21 because I'm getting older and was getting really tired and my alarm is set for 5:20 (and I was still 30 minutes late for work). I caught the rest of the game this morning, though after the final result was spoiled for me. Still crazy how it went down, with the onside kick just adding insult to injury. Pretty amusing that the team that scored in the final seconds got to line up in the Victory formation.
What a classic game. Gotta hand it to the Tigers for never giving up
and coming through when they had to. Great for the ACC.
Yall trippin
lol subtle edit to remove the downvote. Nice.
Ha, yeah I had originally done that because it was the furthest thing from what is actually known as "Clemsoning," but then I realized that especially if I was going to screenshot it then I shouldn't be a dick
After watching the game via the skycam feed, with no announcers, I can honestly say that's the best way to watch football. I wish that option was available every game.
I remember the NFL tried that years ago and it did seem really weird ( no talking heads).
And when we play the NCs next year Watson wont be there.
Yeah, but how do you get your between every play injury update on Bo Scarboro's leg? I bet you don't even know how upset Herbstreit was about it.
Or me, Scarbrough's presence was HUGELY missed in the 4th quarter. Since he's been healthy, he's been unstoppable in the 4th quarter and was starting to look the part right as he got injured. Not to mention, they couldn't stop him early, no way they would have stopped him in the 4th. It had an enormous impact on the game for a team that relies so heavily on chewing clock in the 4th quarter. It contributed to many three and outs and got the Bama defense absolutely gassed.
absolutely. The alabama O looked lost without him, except for the one scoring drive where they needed a trick play pass from a WR and a fantastic run by Hurts to score. I'd say the biggest play of the game was taking out Scarbrough, fair?
I'd agree with that completely.
Legged solely for the 'Scarborough Fair' reference...
Devil's advocate, but shouldn't a team that recruits like Alabama and has a coaching staff payroll like Alabama not be completely hamstrung by losing their top rusher?
I also blame play calling. It seemed like Sark was game-planning not to lose right up until Clemson took the lead. He was either ok with letting the defense win the game or was blind to what Clemson was giving them on offense because his play calling repeatedly failed to take advantage of open TEs or massive running lanes. Now maybe those were rookie mistakes by a QB who had been able to rely on his rushing game all season and therefore missed out on some potential development opportunities.
Anyway, I can't imagine that its easy, even for Bama, to consistently keep two RBs the quality of Scarbrough on the roster. I mean, he had his way with Clemson all night and his back ups paled in comparison. Maybe next year they will develop into more dominant backs, but it wasn't the case last night.
This just highlights that Bama is not NFL level, no matter what their fans say. They had weaknesses (rookie QB, pass blocking) and made up for it with their running game. When that took a hit, they could not compensate either with RB depth or a more active passing game. College teams will always have a ceiling and, honestly, it was comforting to see even Alabama hit their's last night. It makes me think that we're a lot closer to competing with the big boys than I thought (yes, there is a long way to go, but the goal is no longer having our 3rd string be a championship caliber team).
My favorite part of last nights game, was after all the analysts have been creaming in their jeans for weeks about the greatness of Bama's defense....they got absolutely shredded in crunch time
There is a lot of negativity on this thread about how we aren't getting it done in the recruiting arena.
Talent is most definitely the "raw material" of the football world, and we do have a deficit there. But even with elite talent, you need a quality coaching staff to turn that "raw material" into something productive. Clemson and Alabama have both of those things, but few in the CFB world do. Some teams have one or the other, many teams have neither.
I like to think VT has one of those things (a quality staff) and are in the process of acquiring the other (the raw material). How much do we need? Time will tell. We certainly missed on a golden opportunity 10-15 years ago when we were poised to sell a growing VT football tradition. But the beauty is that we didn't slide into the garbage like many programs do who aren't able to seize the opportunity. We slid into a moment of mediocrity, but that seems to be changing quickly.
I'm not really old, but I'm old enough to realize that its time to enjoy the ride... wherever this ride is going.
I, for one, am happy that Clemson won the game last night. I'm glad that we get to host the National Champion in Blacksburg next year on the national stage and potentially face another top 5 opponent in the ACCCG (if we get there again). There is nothing bad about that at all. The more good teams we have in the ACC, the more national exposure we get and that doesn't hurt recruiting at all.
Go Hokies!
The thing about recruiting is that its the half of college football that's quantifiable. At least relatively. I think we have an great staff, which is half of the equation, but there are no coaching metric rankings that could be used to determine that. So people get caught up in recruiting because there is a number that can be pointed to.
The other half of it is that we have always had great coaching, so we should look to improve the missing half. But anyone who clamors for better recruiting should agree that you if you only get one of the two, you take great coaching all day. Otherwise you become Miami circa 2002-now.
I'm going to join in (willing and knowingly) with the minority and say that I'm disappointed Bama choked at the end. I don't feel like it will benefit us at all, though I don't feel like it is a disaster. I have fam that attended and graduated from Clemson, and while they themselves are not insufferable, the overall vibe I get from the fanbase is that they are. And that's annoying and inappropriate. I'll congratulate them, but that's about the extent of my enthusiasm. I will NEVER be a #goacc conference type of fan, UNLESS Tech is top dog. Then we'll talk. But I prefer the chaos because Tech thrived and still thrives off of it. Fuck Clemson. I hope we curbstomp the absolute living shit out of them when they come to Lane. When was the last time we even beat them?
2007
Well that is simply unacceptable and no good.
We will get another chance in 233 to 312 days, and possibly yet another chance in 326 days. Don't worry.
I'm not worried. Just annoyed we didn't win at least ONE of those games back in '11. I also don't give a rats ass that they won the CFPNC.
I'm just gonna leave this here...
So, let me get this straight, first they've got this gem
Then, they've got this clown whispering sweet nothings in the choke holder's ear.
Finally, they're polishing that trophy so much his grandma is about to tell him he'll go blind...
He literally tongued the golden labia on television last night.
Actually looks more like a pole. Just sayin'.
After spending much time during my formative years in Death Valley, I'm kinda glad the Tigers won. We tightened their panties in the ACCCG and may have helped them seal the deal last night. How does Watson not win the Heisman? That award is becoming a joke. Manziel and Jackson 2 of the last four years. Sad.