I didnt realize how upset their fan base really was about our game until just now. The Governor of Arkansas signed into law the ability of concealed permit carriers to take an additional class that will allow them to carry in a large number of public places, including university campuses.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/new-arkansas-concealed-carry-law-allows-con...
Seems like a slippery slope waiting to happen, especially if there is as much alcohol at an Arkansas game before and during as I would expect.
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DATS HAR WE DO DINGS DON ERR EN ESS EEE SEE KUNTREE, PAAAAAAAAAWL
As a CCW holder, sounds like a terrible idea.
Edit: You don't have to get political to realize that adding guns to an event with intoxicated people and high emotions is a recipe for disaster. Not politics. Common sense.
As a CCW holder, what's your policy on alcohol while carrying?
Never and against the law.
Bingo!
^What he said.
So you wouldn't trust yourself with a gun at a football game? If you drink it wouldn't be legal. People who carry legally have more responsibility and act more responsible. It is for one thing, and for one thing only. Defending your life, where you are shouldn't matter. If you plan on getting shitty drunk, I agree that you forfeit that option.
It isn't about trusting myself. It's about trusting others. I grew up shooting. I learned basic gun safety and was shooting BB guns and .22s before kindergarten (with supervision, of course). I also spent 7 years in the Army, where I have taught PMI (Primary Marksmanship Instruction). Still, I would not consider myself an expert, but I can tell you this unequivocal fact: The training requirements to get a CCW are a fucking joke. And a paltry 8 extra hours isn't going to make a difference. The training to get a CCW essentially ensures that you know basic firearm safety and won't shoot yourself at the range. It in no way prepares you to take on an active shooter situation. Especially, if that situation is amongst 60k+ fans. To be perfectly honest, I don't trust most people with a CCW to carry in a general public setting. Much less where emotions and alcohol are involved. And just because carrying while drinking is illegal doesn't mean there won't be those who will do it anyway. Hell, carrying alcohol itself isn't allowed in Lane, but AssPocketFullOWhiskey is more than just a clever name.
Let's pull that string a little bit. Let's say you do carry in a stadium, solely for self defense. You stay sober, because you're responsible. For whatever reason, a person with a gun gives you justifiable reason to pull if you so choose. Are you really going to take a shot in a stadium, as crowded as it is? Your reflexes, OODA loop, and aim are so good under that kind of pressure, with the adrenaline going, in a split second, that you'd feel comfortable firing in the kind of crowd present at a football game?
If the answer is no, then you shouldn't carry at a game, for obvious reasons.
If the answer is yes, you're either far, far better trained than ~90% of CHL holders, or you're delusional, which is its own kind of dangerous.
The problem isn't that people don't trust themselves, or that alcohol is really the issue. It's that if you pull the trigger in that environment, there's a pretty solid chance you're gonna make things a lot worse.
Exactly. And even if you are true in your aim, in that type of environment, the possibility of collateral damage is insanely high. If your aim isn't true, collateral damage is virtually guaranteed.
Plus, even if everything goes right, you're probably not the only CHL holder present. The others may not know why you pulled and shot. So after you shoot, they may think YOU'RE the threat and then they may pull and shoot at you. It's just a really, really bad idea. And my issue is that the kind of people I'd trust to carry there either already are, because they're police, or would decline to do so for the reasons we've listed. But Joe Sixgun who thinks he's GI Joe because he can hit a piece of paper ten times, but lacks any real training, is exactly the kind of person who'll carry there just cause they can.
Right again.
You dont take a shot that puts others in danger, its that simple. Maybe I do have more training than 90% of CHL, I probably do, but that seems like common sense. Im not saying the stadium is the most ideal situation to have guns, but you also have to realize that large crowds like that are targets these days. You cant say an attack on a stadium is not something you should at least think about when you go to a game. It doesnt deter me from not going, nor is it a major factor, but I would rather be armed. The human brain is capable of making the right decision in a split second, you dont put others at risk. If you can safely end a threat you do it, if you cant, you dont and go for plan B but at least you had plan A.
I hear you. And what I'm saying is I don't trust the vast majority of CCW/CHL holders to make that decision. Like I said, it's way too easy to get licensed and there are way too many cowboys out there itching for a reason to use their firearm.
I dont disagree. There probably is no realistic and completely logical solution, allowing CCW in the stadium might not be the best idea. But not allowing it poses some issues as well. But the last thing I want to do is start a gun control debate on here. Its sad that there even has to be a concern like this, that is the biggest problem. There shouldnt have to be a law either way, but unfortunately there are screwed up folks out there.
Gun owner and veteran, hunting 55 years, etc. No CCW, but well enough versed in firearms use and safety. No politics here, but for an example to support the fact that permits are too easy to obtain, check out Dan Casey's obtaining one without ever in his life having fired a gun. I cannot do the link thing, but he reported on this in the Roanoke Times a few years ago. Doesn't give one a lot of confidence in the issuance procedures, or the folks who have CCW permits.
I know that to be a fact, I dont dispute that. To get a license it doesnt require any training with a firearm. Dont know whether that is good or bad. But neither does a hunting license, open carry is legal and so is concealed carry in some states without a permit. Doesnt mean those people are not fit, but I do understand and somewhat agree with the point yall are making. It would be nice if everybody that was armed was trained well, but I also understand the arguement not needing a permit to carry when and where you want.
I agree with you that many, and likely most folks who carry concealed, or open for that matter, are certainly fit to do so, but I also have to question the idea that firearms training isn't advisable, regardless of arguments to the contrary. I also have learned that what some see as common sense, others see as political, so I'll bow out here on that one. As for hunting, I have learned in my decades afield that there are many hunters out there that lack the kind of training and experience most of us in my time learned from our fathers, uncles, etc. Guns can be too dangerous to be taken lightly, and I believe we are in total agreement on that point.
The part that befuddles me is that a few ordinary joes were able to piece together a decent conversation on why this has much more risk than reward, but the people making the policy seem unable (or unwilling) to do so. All of the concerns/issues expressed here are great and really apply to any public place that allows people. I agree with the training requirements being far too low considering the potential negative outcome. Our society seems very casual toward the permitting process given the requirements to get a driver's license, which is another potentially dangerous public activity.
Id ike to see the Arkansas AG opinion on this. Even in states that allow CCW carry on college campuses you can't carry into a stadium,as for airport carry it is banned by Federal law.
So we just need to put an airport in their stadium is what you're saying?
That will ensure we never go play a game in their home stadium, since our secondary is a no-fly zone.
Would that make Scott Stadium the airport in Spain from Top Gear that was abandoned like a month after they opened it?
Whats that you said about an airport?
They can allow it in parking lots or in front of checkpoints but federal law takes over at TSA checkpoint.
well thats good i guess
It's not even bad yet. Mostly puns and funny stuff.
IMO this is a grey area where the politics very clearly intersects with sports in a relevant way, so I think it's hard to make the argument that it breaks guidelines. So far the "political" discussion is civil enough, but it only takes one person to get it going south in a hurry.
Guitarman be all like:
Well in their defense, they did come out guns a blazing against us.
too bad they used up all their ammo by halftime
How do you conceal a black powder rifle, Jeb?
Just wait a dadbern minute, Fierst it's Jed and third, he from Tennsee not ArKansas.
So, you can carry a gun to a ball game at the University of Arkansas but not an umbrella??
Solution:
Because no one wants to have their view obstructed by an umbrella. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised to see Arkansas allow umbrellas in, as that's a problem that could be rectified by the new gun policy.
There's always the nefarious sword umbrella.
This would help eliminate paper airplane problem.
Fan shot for throwing paper airplane. Local firefighter held for attempted manslaughter.
Jury nullification, justified shooting since he was aiming for airplane which was a dangerous projectile
But the presence of air planes turns the stadium into an airport and guns are banned there as we discussed earlier.
Checkmate.
Unmanned aerial vehicles, paper airplane, are banned above large groups of people specifically sports stadiums. UAV's are also banned within close proximity of an airport.
Tell that to the guy ordering Chipolte delivery by drone.
That guy has a lot of issues. Who the hell orders that crap?
Fireman....I wish to make a confession. Forgive me, please, for I have sinned. I had Chipotle for lunch today.
Get some Moe's for dinner and repent.
I could never go back to chipotle after i tried district taco
You know what, I'm sick and tired of everyone fronting.
You all fight between Chipotle and Moe's and there's some window licker supporting Qdoba, but NONE OF YOU ARE LOYAL!
Who was there when you were down on your luck? Who was there when you were drunk at 3 AM and NEEDED food? Who is that name that you secretly love even though none of you can face the facts?
That's right...
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preach
obligatory:
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Guns.
/Scans thread.
//Everyone was on their best behavior.
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I don't know, they let this guy bring a gun into a stadium full of annoying drunks and no one has been shot yet.
his hat would beg to differ
That same stadium though, the biggest signs outside and inside the building say that Firearms are not permitted in this Building.
Quick Update to this the Arkansas Senate has amended the bill to EXCLUDE college sporting events. Arkansas House passed that amendment 71 to 20. Still needs to go back through the Arkansas senate again but it seems like, as HHB08 said
and get to their policy makers in time to make an impact.
SiriusXM College sports station interviewed a Arkansas sports radio host who had been reporting that opponents of Arkansas teams (including SEC opponents) had started to express concerns about player/team safety and visiting fan safety. It sounds like it may have had a chilling effect on the ability to schedule games.
from how I heard it, the SEC pretty much told the Univ of Arkansas to ban weapons themselves if their government didn't, or the SEC would take action to ensure they didn't host any games until it happened, for the safety of players and fans alike.
I think the SEC may have just gained just a smidgen of respect from me.
it's a conference of "learn'id" folks!