I know it is mad early, but seeing how things are progressing with our offense, knowing how young some of the team is and the constant restocking on Defense, and of course some of this new talent. I think it is totally within VTs reach to hit the Nat Championship in either of these years.
What do you think? If not, what do you guys foresee?
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I think it definitely helps our chances that we'll only have to be top 4 instead of top 2 after this season
Depends heavily on quaterbacking. If we get good/great qb play, then sure. If we don't, not a chance.
As well as play-making WR's. I can't think of a very good year where we did not have more play-making ability among our WR corps. Among the current guys, maybe Stanford has the highest potential. But he is not an Eddie Royal or an Andre Davis.
And, Trey Edmunds has to be the real deal for us to approach elite status those years. I hope he is there, but was slightly disappointed in him today.
I do like us to return to top-20 status the next two years, but just don't see enough offensive talent to outperform the TOP teams.
Definitely an optimist, aren't you? I'm betting that we get a Motley crew or a new Ford at quarterback. I'm guessing they are more than the Leal deal, so with good luck, good recruiting and a good handle on what our offensive capabilities become, 2016 at the earliest. Want you to be right though.
Motley or Ford will have to play lights out to start ahead of Leal. Leal can do everything Thomas can do, and will have a full year of watching/learning the new system under Loeffler, and playing whenever possible. But, If Ford or Motley do win the starting job, we can trust that they must be very, very good.
Unless Ford comes in and is just a monster....
No way. Especially not with the playoff system, where you'll have to make it into the top 4, and then beat not one but two championship level teams to win the MNC
Even looking through the Maroon and Orange shades - No - I don't see a National Championship in VTs immediate future.
In the past, I have been very optimistic about this programs potential. Every other season since about the mid 90s I have felt that if everything came together - we would have a shot. We could always count on a good D and a good running game.
A consistent luxury of ours the last 15 years has been the D - exception 2003 - when the wheels fell off.
Btw, how many programs can claim having a top 20 or so D for that many years in a row? I try not take it for granted and sometimes I wonder where this program would be without Bud and some of his assistants. This seasons D is shaping up to be one of Bud's finest and I can see 2014-2015 being promising as well - esp with all the young talent in the secondary.
Where I see the problem is the lack of true offensive playmakers. Where are we getting our points? Where's our weekly 100yd rusher? Wheres our all conference receiver/tight end? QB is a hug question mark after LT leaves. Bucky and/or Ford are no guarantees without the pieces around them.
When you make national championship proclamations, you have to look at the teams around you. How do we compare?
All of the teams that have and are currently competing for a national title are getting there with players who will be playing on the next level. Who are our next level players on O? No disrespect to our current guys, but I don't see them.
When tech has been there in the past - Mike Vick, Andre Davis
In the Discussion - Eddie Royal, Josh Morgan, Justin Harper, Tyrod Taylor, Jeff King, Kevin Jones, Lee Suggs, David Wilson, Ryan Williams
2013/14/15: ?
And that is why, despite the great D, it's the least excited I've been about or National and Conference championship prospects in quite a while.
It's easier to look back and think people were elite, rather than look to the future and forecast that status. Anyone of the current guys could blow up at any moment. Manziel wasn't that hyped and boom.
Lot of talent coming in, and some key games ahead to help prep and SOS. I think the O is starting to give glimpses. Willie was looking good, knowles and Stanford too. Edmunds stepped back, but ECU was dialed in on the run. Marshawn Williams by the way is collecting yardage and TDs like crazy, so he could be the next great RB if edmunds doesn't work out.
I kind of agree with part of what you are saying. But I don't think a complete 180 for the offense is possible next year.
If you use our 98 and 99 teams as an example - the 98 offense was pretty bad - although the 98 team had many games where they could move the ball effectively on the ground . Vick's play making ability was largely responsible for most of the turn-around in 99.
I think it would be a little generous to say that Bucky or Ford will bring to the table what Vick brought us as a freshman - Bucky and Ford are more of the "give them a couple of years in the offense and something might click as junior or senior" type QB prospects - think Bryan Randall. If you think of them as anything else, you will be very disappointed.
(Vick was a national top 10 overall recruit). Very few QBs can deliver undefeated type seasons as freshman. You probably can count on one hand the number of freshman national title game QBs in the last 30 years.
You mentioned Manziel. He's a great talent - but a lot of Manziel's early success is the product of playing under Kevin Sumlin. I mean - Sumlin made Casey Keenum look like a Heisman finalist! We won't see an organized offensive machine like Sumlin's around VT anytime soon - or probably ever under Beamer's watch.
For starters, I think Virginia Tech needs to get the running game back to where it was in the 90s and 2000s - where we would out rush all but 1 or 2 of the teams we played all year. If we can get that going again, then I think its possible to take that next step.
Yesterday - VT rushed for 53 yds on 34 carries against East Carolina.
34 for 53yds
VT has a loooong ways to go.
I'm not saying a lot of pieces have to work out in our advantage. Just saying things are positive and minus the qb we will have a vet team the next few seasons. Add in a couple of talents that can contribute right away (ie fuller) and there is a slight chance.
It all starts up front.
If Grimes can't put together an effective group of OLs by the end of this year or by Spring Practice, none of the other stuff we want to do offensively will happen in 2013-2014-2015. It's really pretty basic - the QB must have time to throw, and the RBs must have holes to run through.
Once we have that, then we can worry about having WRs who can actually catch the ball when it hits them in the hands, and can hold their own when they're in a jump ball situation.
I believe that we have a good QB and RBs right now, but their production is being stifled by the inability of the OLs to hold their pass-blocks and/or open holes.
What VT lacks in 2014 & 2015 (or at least, we have no notion):
-A 2-deep and talented D-line
-Linebackers that are big and fast
-Playmaking WRs
-Playmaking QB
It's all about recruitment.
I think we've had a huge upgrade in coaching staff and I love the fact that they are finding the best players and putting them in the best positions.
I think a lot of the attrition that we saw over the summer was the new guys encouraging those that didn't fit the mold of an ACC championship player or had the wrong attitude to beat it.
I think our cupboard was a little more bare than we thought.
Now that's done, they have to get their type of player in.
If they can then we may have something here in a year or two.
Of course. If VT can get Settle and Nnadi (which is still a big if), then we can predict a fairly good D-line. If VT can get a top of the line receiver, they can probably be starter week 1 of their freshman year. They also lack dominant LBs, so any upgrade there would need to be done through recruiting.
Think you forgot a dominant O-line.
Debated whether or not to put O-line. What we do know:
-Grimes will get better production out of any set of O-linemen than previous O-line coaches
-Smith, Teller, and Osterloh could battle out for starting spots in the spring (maybe Smith will before the year is up)
-5 incoming Freshman, so the line will be deep
But, we currently have no notion that the VT O-line will be dominant, but they should be better than satisfactory.
Not likely, even if Leal plays lights out, we still don't have high level receivers in the pipeline, so our offense will be crippled next year a bit. In '15, we will likely have another first year starting QB, and none of them are looking like MV7 yet. Time will tell, but I judge 2016 as our most likely year to compete on an elite level again. The new coaches, assuming they are still with us, will have had time to recruit and develop their own guys. As long as recruiting pans out well this year and next, 2016 could be great.
Virtually everyone is coming back for Leal, or whoever starts at QB next year, minus Andrew Miller and DJ Coles. Every receiver will be a year older and more mature, and throw in Malleck who was going to be an intricate part of the offense this year as another veteran and I think we will be just fine. That also includes 4 starting lineman and the stable of backs are all returning. The offense is looking up for the future and you know Bud will always bring the defense to play.
Leal isn't bad, don't get me wrong but I'd rather not see him start next year. I don't want to have to go through two new quarterbacks in consecutive years. I'd rather have a new guy come right in and take the ropes like Manziel did last year. Do I see it happening? No. Frank likes to Redshirt his future then let him learn a year as a back-up.
I agree. It's not likely, and I feel really bad for Leal because he's waited long enough for his shot, but I'd rather Bucky or Ford come in and be thrown into the fire. As a lot of people have said I feel a window of opportunity is opening for 2014-2016 and I feel like deferring to Leal for a year and putting off the growing pains of Hodges/Ford another year doesn't do us any favors.
The next two years frighten me. The senior QB is ths year. We will win 2 or 3 games less next year than this year and about 2 games less in 2015 than 13. I don't like the QB talent at all after LT.
I'm still optimistic that this team can ride the defense to 9-10 wins this year. But national championship? No, the days of being nationally relevant have sailed for our program.
People need to not downvote for opinions.
I will say that I disagree with your opinion. LT is a great talent, but has been less then effective at times. LT hasn't played like a top-round talent yet, so I would disagree with your assessment that there will be a significant drop-off in QB play after Logan Thomas.
Especially considering the next QB will have an extra year in Loeffler's system then Logan had to start off this season and considering that the WR's the next QB will be throwing to will be a year older then they are now. I expect the passing game to continue to mature this year and while the next QB may not have the arm strength that Thomas does, I suspect there will be far more crispness to it's execution.
And as far as Virginia Tech not being nationally relevant? Don't blink, but Foster has fielded what is probably the best defense in the country. That alone makes Tech relevant.
I agree, our defense is probably the best in the nation...top 10 at worst, regardless of statistics. I think I'm going to start buying lottery tickets in the offseason with the sole purpose being to keep Bud in Blacksburg.
What are your thoughts on Motley at QB next year? Everyone seems to either be on the Leal train (most likely scenario IMO) or Bucky/Ford taking over.
The most frustrating thing about Logan is simply his lack of consistency. When he is good he looks like an NFL starter out there throwing frozen ropes. Every now and then, though, he makes a questionable read/throw...I can only imagine what life would have been like this year if we had Loeffler here earlier to develop him for a couple more years.
Loefller said Leal is having a "ridiculous" camp, which is even more notable considering he plays against the 1st team D with 2nd team offensive players around him.
Leal will be a very, very good game manager. He's exceptional at going through progressions and making very quick decisions. He'll be playing behind the best offensive line in years, with very good running backs, and wide receivers who are a year older.
I commented further below that Motley has not been moved to another position for a reason. Watch his spring highlights. Again, his highlights come against what is probably the best secondary in NCAA. He has a very, very strong arm as he's shown the ability to complete a 15-yard out on the wide side of the field. We all know he can run.
Both Motley and Leal have a Bryan Randall level of ability in my opinion, and both will be under the tutelage of an outstanding QB coach. We'll be fine at QB.
What would the irony be if Leal plays well his senior year, wins nat champ and only plays one year. He wouldn't have the stats but would have the one thing other great QBs wouldn't.
would be hilarious...but don't count on it
I think we need to prepare ourselves that the WR problem isn't experience, it's talent. If that's the case, you'll see more experience problems the next two years as we start working in younger, more talented players.
I have sounded the warning bells a few times now on the QB's, and I want to clarify. I think Ford can be a very good player, but he's the kinda guy who is better as a Jr/Sr. If we need to play him early, which I think we will, it could be quite painful. I'm also allowing myself to be surprised about Bucky, he has awful mechanics but he gets the ball where it needs to go. Maybe Loeffler can fix it. I don't consider Leal and/or Motley to be more than game-manager-backup-type QB's. My projection right now is that Leal starts the year next year and Ford replaces him in October.
I think we need to win this year, we can't write this off as a rebuild. An epically good defense and a senior QB can turn into an ACC Championship season. I'm seeing a dropoff the next few years, but if it doesn't come, it will likely be on the backs of a stout rushing game and a seasoned OL. I've got a lot of faith in Grimes, no matter how awful that piss-fest in Greenville was on Saturday. Grimes may be the best offensive coach VT has ever employed, and frankly, I wouldn't mind him as the next Head Coach.
Motley will suprise some people. There is a reason he hasn't been moved to another position. In his spring highlights, he showed a rocket arm and very good pocket awareness, in addition to some pretty good wiggle and wheels.
Not sure how you can not like QB talent you have not seen? ;-/
It's safe to say we should be much better going forward. No question but you look around at the talent fsu, Clemson, and Miami continue to pull in..it will be tough. Dont forget the teams we will play out of conference..but if the offense can be top 50 with a top 15 defense..things get better going forward.
I think 2015 is where it's at. The defense will be stellar, we have kickers in the pipeline, our RB's will have matured both physically and in the system, and our young QB 's will have a yr or two as understudies. Stay thirsty Hokies, we're slowly getting back to where we belong: at the top.
2015 and 2016 have a chance to be the years. But for now we just have to stay patient.
Everything goes through the offensive line. If we cant field a good line than it doesn't matter who we recruit. We get better wrs next yr In Phillips and Harrison. Rbs is still iffy to me. Everyone is pretty even. We could use a top rb like a Williams, or Wilson. As far as qbs go Bucky is highly rated, but all things I hear about him is that he needs a ton of work and his throwing motion is pretty bad. Ford is loeffler's pick who is enrolling early next yr. And I see ford pushing bucky for the starting job because he has great mechanics and he can spread the ball around accurately. Defense is gonna be solid. Our dline may be a little weak next yr. Will see how the progression goes for the younger guys. But this offense has to get better. Because all these other teams in our conference are loading up and we have not done that this year.
2016 cause Sam Rogers will be a senior.
I've lobbied for looking at this staff change to progress along the timeline that you'd expect for a new head coaching hire. There's going to be an adjustment period where we try to fit the existing pieces into the new scheme and fill in players with skillsets that are better suited to what the new coaches need. Typically, a successful coaching hire will show significant improvement in year three and onwards. I think we need to be realistic about the time tables here.
The good news is I think we're already seeing improvement in some of the most needed areas, principally offensive line and overall offensive strategy so the early signs point to success. Obviously we have a long way to go to get back to where we want to be, but each success will breed more. If you survey the competitive landscape of the ACC in particular and CFB in general, I think recruiting will need to be a major cornerstone of any improvement project. Clemson and FSU have risen to their potential and it's going to take a lot more to compete with their level of athletes. I think these guys have what it takes to get us there, but we will need to be patient.
"...we have a long way to get back to where we want to be..."
I want to be BETTER than we've EVER been...I don't want to go to one national championship game and lose it...I want VT to WIN National Championships. Getting BACK to where we were isn't as good as getting to WHERE I want to be. VT has been a good program for nearly the last 2 decades. I'm ready for VT to take the next step to become a GREAT program.
In addition, just realized Holland Fischer will hopefully be here next year to boost the defense!
haha, to boost the defense. Not sure the defense needs too much boosting at this point.