Seems like other programs have the same problem as us.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230479580457909722390773878...
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Seems like other programs have the same problem as us.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230479580457909722390773878...
Comments
The same problem?
Weaver is the AD at other schools too!?!
DAMN YOU, HD TV!!!
Cell phones too.
Saban stooping down to the Seth Greenberg level? You know it must be tough out there.
The last part....4:30 games draw the students!!!
Not noon games. Not 7:30 games. I know it's not all about the students, but noon is too early for everyone.
3:30-5:00 kicks are in the "I'm not busy zone" for students, allow for them to wake up & tailgate, and fill the seats.
You can't tweet? WHAT COULD YOU POSSIBLY DO?! Oh yea, watch the friggin football game! And the other stupid quote.
The crazy atmosphere? Are you people even college students? Who doesn't love the atmosphere of a college game?
I read that comment from a different perspective. I enjoy the atmosphere of a college town on gameday, and I love cheering along with the crowd. What I don't love is being packed into the student section shoulder to shoulder with a ton of 18-22 year olds. Nothing could possibly go wrong...right?
I'm a recent Auburn grad, and I went to a lot of home games between 2008 and 2011. Yes, that encompassed a championship and a couple 7-5 seasons, as well as a 5-7 season. See my post below for my views on the student section. In essence: it just isn't worth the hassle, and I'd pay double for a paper ticket with a seat than a student ticket. That's a sentiment that I share with everyone I know besides 1 guy who wants to sit in the student section until he dies (and bless him for that, we need fans like that).
Granted, this has never stopped me from going to games, but I do like to check scores from other games, read analysis, see other people's opinions of replays, etc when at the game. While this would NEVER stop me from going to a game, I would enjoy having service at a game.
I personally check two things on my phone during games: ESPN Scorecenter for Scores/Stats from other games and stats from our games and Twitter after an injury to our player to find out what it was and if he'll be back. That's it.
Yeah, my rant there was mostly in regards to college FB as a whole, and mostly SEC-specific (that's what the article focused on, and I responded to that).
I do know a lot of these things aren't apparently problems with the VT student section. If it's as gravy as you make it out to be I'd never miss a game though.
Aaaaand the comment was edited so it doesn't apply here...maybe the rest of the comment will show up in the proper place down below my rant.
It makes me feel better that the kids saying this stupid stuff go to a SEC school. Guess everything isn't as perfect in the SEC as they would have us believe.
Im about to rant a little bit, so feel free to skip over my comment. However
I recently graduated from Auburn, and am a lifelong Virginia Tech fan (born in Blacksburg, dad got his masters degree there). I went to every Auburn home game for 3 straight years, plus various home games for the couple years following that. We had good teams and bad teams in that time period (2008-2011). I have to say that articles like this arent surprising in the least. There are a few reasons that the current student sections arent working (in my mind anyway).
1)There is no assigned seating. I would pay double what a student ticket costs to get a paper ticket and have an assigned seat. Why you ask? I love the atmosphere of the student section, dont get me wrong. But being packed like a sardine in a student section rubbing up against whoever is next to me constantly isnt a pleasant experience. This issue also brings up my next point.
2)I DONT WANT TO WAIT IN LINE FOR SEATS. Ive done the waiting in line for foerever to get seats. For the LSU vs. Auburn game in 2010, I was at the stadium 8.5 hours BEFORE KICKOFF. I was waiting in line to get decent seats. And I wasnt even in the first 200 people there. The gates open 2 2.5 hours before kickoff, depending on the game. So I sat in the stadium (routinely, not just the LSU game or the championship year) for around 6 hours. The time spent at the stadium easily feeds into my next point:
3)Concessions are too damn high for college students. I know that traditionally concessions are much more expensive inside stadiums than outside, but come ON. I like to think I lived comfortably through college. Thanks to scholarships, I didnt have to work a full time job and worked a part time job primarily for beer money. College student dont want to pay (and some are unable to pay) $5 for a bottle of water and $6 for a hamburger that tastes like shoe leather. I realize concessions at Lane Stadium are somewhat different, but the student section concessions always suck and consistently lag behind other areas of the stadium.
4)I know this is true for Auburn and other SEC schools, but dont know if its true for VT or other schools, but SEC schools consistently oversell the student section. In reference to UGA having ~15600 student in their student section for USCar: DUH! When you oversell you student section by 2-3K seats, dont expect the section to be filled according to tickets used vs. tickets bought. Come on, this is common sense.
Asking students to wait in line (or even just to get to the stadium two hours before game time) and then spend 4 hours packed in like sardines and pay exorbitant amounts for concessions isnt going to improve student attendance, never mind if your team is having a down year (Auburn and VT come to mind as down last year, with Auburn being rock-bottom).
Starting in 2011, my friends and I set up a tailgate about 300 yards from the stadium on some green space with a gorgeous view of the stadium. We would come and setup the tailgate at 7:00 or 8:00 in the morning and stay all day through the night games, no matter what time Auburn played. This afforded me the opportunity to relish the gameday atmosphere (which I love), eat whatever I want or run across the street and get BBQ or whatever without a stadium mark-up (which I like), and to drink beer of my own choosing while paying store prices and no mark-ups just for being in a stadium (which I double love). I got to watch the game with a much better eye on replays and such from the comfort of a tailgate chair without having to stand balls-to-butt with some rando who may or may not be a sweaty, smelly 300-lb man who just bought a student ticket off the street at the age of 50. I dont have anything against the guy personally, but I dont want to be forced to rub shoulders and whatever else with you because you chose to sit next to me in a section without assigned seats thats oversold.
I peruse several Hokies websites, and its depressing to watch grown men dump piles of excrement on students not attending football games. I understand that back in the 80s and 90s the student sections were more filled than they are now. I even read multiple things stating that it is a privilege to be able to sit in the student section after having built up a winning football program and investing money into the football program for many years (Lane Stadium improvements, practice facilities, etc.). You know what? How about you do something to actually make it a privilege? You say I should come to support the players, and I agree with that sentiment to an extent. However, what part of me paying stadium mark-ups and what not is supporting the players? You can argue that you dont have to buy anything. Well, I guess I wont eat for 6 hours and sweat my balls off in the heat or get soaked in the rain, or just be damn cold for 6 hours so that these guys know I support them.
I love football. I love Auburn Tiger football, and I love Virginia Tech football, both of which have history in similar principles (defense, running the football). I don't love people dumping heaps and heaps of crap on students for not coming to games, as not coming to games is the ONLY way for any of the circumstances in the student section to change.
Rant over.
TL;DR: As a recent college graduate, I agree with the sentiment that student attendance is down across the nation, and that there are several ways to go about fixing this problem that are completely doable.
1) Totally agree with this but at tech they actually have paper tickets. The issue becomes students who are not satisfied with their seats get friends to print out multiple of their tickets, and once they get in the stadium they use the friend's ticket to get a better seat. Thus the lower East student stands and the NEZ are over filled where as the corners are unfilled. This was probably my biggest frustration when I was a student. I totally understand why people do this but I endured two years of high east, or high SEZ tickets and finally got NEZ and low East...except that the first two years have my best memories because I could actually see the entire game and not have people all up in space sweating, drooling, spitting, and sitting in my seat (during half time) and acting like a complete a-hole about it when i told them to move so i could sit.
3) totally agree here too. I never bought concessions nor did my friend because of the prices.
1) sounds like they need to do real paper tickets like the season ticket holders. Get them mailed or wait in line for them. Easy solution IMO lol.
3) concessions are absurd when you have easy alternatives to circumvent them with so many games on TV and what not.
Glad someone shares this veiwpoint, because it is seeming to get lost in the shuffle of opinions...
1) there are a lot of people against this because that would mean the scheming to get better seats would end. It would also benefit in making the stadium appear more full--but I totally get why people move down closer to the field. Like deathrow below this, I like to be a bit higher up because I am a fan of the game and want to see it clearly. I would prefer lower if I would be guaranteed a good view (which is what purchasing a ticket should ensure).
3) I never understood why concessions couldnt be purchased from our mealplans. We have dining dollars on our passports, the university still gets our money and I guarantee you they would make a boat load from switching to dining dollars since very few students actually think about the money they spend on food.
Using meal plan money at concessions stands is brilliant. I definitely agree that students would spend decent amounts on food and drinks. But the issues that arise are the utilization of contract food service companies as suppliers for concessions and the program that allows student organizations to staff concession stands as a fundraiser. Also, Virginia Tech has been lagging behind the times in installing card readers in Lane Stadium.
I agree that I actually like upper East because I can see the game. And I don't really mind other people, I can go a whole game without sitting down so I generally do.
As for the prices, they're definitely too high. But I'll pay $9 for a Turkey Leg any day. The easiest way to keep students in stadiums is to sell alcohol in the stadium. That's honestly, and sadly, all it comes down to.
So a $6 burger is too much but a beer is worth $9? Even if people paid for it, so you keep the seniors and juniors there. What about the freshmen and sophomores who aren't 21? They still leave. Sorry, but selling alcohol at the stadium is not the answer to solving the attendance problem IMO.
I have and never will understand it. But people do still pay that $9 for a beer. I don't know why, I can survive 3 hours without a beer, but people do it.
I'm pretty sure every student realizes after their first home game that anyone can 'sneak' alcohol into the stadium. Now if said alcohol was free... well I would never leave.
Don't apologize for your opinion. It was a good rant. I have some counter points though:
1) You don't think concessions weren't marked up when we alumni went to the games. I can tell you with 100% certainty while I was a student I ate a hot dog once and a nachos once, both before the game. The only thing I bought with regularity was coke because I didn't have to leave my seat and I needed it for the bourbon I snuck in.
2) We have all waited in line. And please forgive the walking in snow uphill bit, but lines were much, much longer when I was at school. My friends and I camped out at Cassell for days for some games.
your other points I hear you but I'm not sure if that is an SEC thing to oversell and not have assigned seats, but VT is different in that regard. (as far as I know)
So my main response to your rant is: You have good points but we have all been there. And in some ways we had worse conditions than you have now. Yet we still filled the stadium, we still stood the entire game, we still NEVER threw paper airplanes, we still stayed until the end. So why is it not possible for students to do it now?
ps. I am pro-wifi connection. Every sports complex I have designed has always been laden with wifi coverage. Stadiums must upgrade to provide and it really is not hard to do.
You have good points, and yes I agree that it was worse before. But with the plethora of college football on TV these days, I'd rather scream and shout at a TV on campus while drinking beer (which isn't allowed in SEC games) and eating my own nachos. When I was 18, 19, 20 I waited in line. I even gladly waited in line for every game when Auburn won the NC in 2010. After 3 years of lines and packed conditions where every bodily fluid was thrown on me at some point in time, I can honestly say I'm over it lol.
Can't say that Auburn's students have ever thrown paper airplanes during games as the North Endzone has been shown doing, but everywhere has it's things. Most of the students in the student endzone at Jordan-Hare are probably too hammered to throw paper airplanes anyway lol.
Another point about the airplanes: give students actual paper tickets like the rest of the stadium and it takes the paper airplanes out of it.
I am the same way now--I can watch CFB, NFL, and NASCAR all from my comfortable chair and still yell, drink beer, etc. but the one thing I miss the most, is the atmosphere of gameday and being on campus...i guess that comes with the territory of being an adult and not living in blacksburg.
I did a tailgate my senior year and my one year of graduate school. It was unbeatable. Awesome atmosphere, good eats, big TV, tons of people yelling and screaming for the same team. Good times.
well i don't remember waiting in lines for student tix at Tech. I complained that there weren't enough and my freshman year I got screwed by the lottery system more than once...but we at least had "assigned" seats and short waits. Yes concessions are expensive (everywhere) but you can always sneak in airplane bottles. I never spent more than 30 min inside the stadium before kickoff. I think it's more a function of the system than anything else.
All valid points. I know the system has changed from the times when I was there in the mid-90's. I also know the culture and generations have changed. My 12 year old plays on 3 travel soccer teams, so watching football on Saturdays doesn't hold the tradition it used to. Thus, he's not learning how to celebrate football the way it should be. On top of that, if he says he really wants to watch an NFL game on Sundays, I find him just getting up and walking out of the room in the middle of a series. Can only imagine the same attention would be afforded to a game when he gets older and is a student in college. It's a different world, and two things can occur. You can either figure out a way to get the students in there and keep their attention (the 4:30 games, paper tix, overselling to compensate for no shows) or simply take tix away and sell at full boat to real fans.
I don't know if this completely translates to students lacking attendance, but it has been shown that with all the technology we have today, the younger generation has ever decreasing attention span. The only games I ever left were the ones where we were handidly winning or losing (clemson from 2011 comes to mind here...ugh) and it was so cold i had lost feeling in my limbs. But with football on TV, i watch until the end regardless of the circumstances.
This is exactly why connectivity is so important in sports facilities, or really any type of building with large crowds. The world has changed and younger generations, and even older generations, need to be connected. Without it these facilities struggle with operations because they cannot attract the crowds.
There are new design innovations as well that are specifically targeting this issue to help keep people connected both to the game/concert/musical/shopping mall/etc that they are watching and the greater online social communities. Facilities that are designed with this in mind are a significantly higher retention rate and return value.
I think that is why we saw the addition of cell towers this offseason ( I can't recall if that is actually what they were but in the new scoreboard thread, i recall someone saying that is what they were). It is a sad fact, but those towers should help.
I really think television/media is the big one here (although there are other factors that contribute to students leaving early/not showing up at all - they are just factors that have always existed - part-time jobs, wanting to leave early to drink/tailgate, general apathy for bad teams - those have been reasons to miss games forever)
If you go back before the mid to late 2000s, you actually had to be at the game - inside the stadium - to know what was going on at the game. There was no espn3, espnu, twitter updates, live gamecast, instant highlights uploaded to youtube, instagrams in Lane as the game is happening. Before all that, if I wanted to see Kevin Jones' first game of the season, I actually had to buy a ticket to the Arkansas State game and sit in the bleachers to see it. My only other access was a poorly detailed AP report long after the game. Now, every game is covered. I could watch the Western Carolina game from my dorm, while doing homework/laundry - so I could go out later that night and have fun.
Of course, you could always watch the big games on ABC, ESPN etc long before this, but as the article mentions, the big games still sell - Georgia students still show up in droves for South Carolina and LSU.
The media we have at our disposal has changed, the ways that we are entertained have changed. The NCAA and the NFL for that matter need to adapt. The live presentation of most sporting events hasn't changed even though the technology around us has. I believe there are opportunities to explore to keep people coming and staying and providing a better overall experience then at the bar or at home.
Good points.
There is nothing captivating or unique about being inside the stadium any longer. Instant replay cannot be seen. Bad calls cannot be slo-mo'd. Some of the ref explanations are lacking.
And the TV timeouts in the stands are mind numbing sometimes. Play the game...I paid to be here, show me the game!!!!!! Don't take 3 minutes off after a punt so Jimmy at home can get another beer. I'm here in 4Y dry, and paid to watch this game.
There's nothing INSIDE that cannot be understood from the outside any longer with the intraweb thingy and all of the tv coverage. So, bring the ability to do everything outside in (via upgraded connectivity.)
I almost wonder if they should play the game with minimal TV breaks and then delay it for TV commercials or you can pay a special fee to watch the entire game without commercials. Either way my biggest frustration with the media and football is:
-4 minute TV timeout after a score
-Kickoff, touchback, no return
-4 minute TV timeout before the first offensive snap
-3 and out
-another 3-4 minute timeout
My brother-in-law has an interesting solution to the plethora of TV timeouts (granted, he went to West Point, so we must take his thoughts on college football with a grain of salt). He has suggested selling ad space during the actual game. "This down sponsored by XYZ" or "this play brought to you by ABC" with logos shown on the telecast in place of commercial breaks. Half-time would be a bit longer to allow for more commercials. This already happens during bowl games.
That's not too bad of an idea. Reducing the amount of TV timeouts is a "live by the sword, die by the sword" kind of thing. If the Hokies are rocking with momentum, the reduction will help keep that going. But if it is the other way, it makes it harder for the Hokies to regain momentum.
Yes I think it's an interesting idea that ultimately benefits the viewers. But the TV timeouts are free timeouts for the teams to rest players and game plan. I don't think coaches or players would be big fans of reducing TV timeouts and replacing them with adds during game play. I don't know if the networks would benefit from it either. I don't know how it's structured but I imagine they aim for viewing minutes and game times would be reduced by taking out tv timeouts. I'm not certain if it would free up enough space for the networks to pick up another game to offset potential losses from shorter game times. Just thinkin out loud here...
Thinking out loud is what this is for. This is all about money. Without the teams, the TV's don't make money. So if the coaches and teams want longer TV delays during games, they will get them. In addition, more tv advertising means more money for the networks. Ultimately we viewers probably don't matter much :/
Sounds like Georgia students deny their own pussy touchdowns.
Is it possible, too, that identity with students is being lost?
I know I never felt more connected to VT or at VT, than when I was cheering on VT sports (football primarily but also soccer, baseball, volleyball, lacrosse, softball, etc) with my friends. I think if I never got that connection, I wouldn't be as into the sports as I was and still am. Is there a disconnect happening where incoming students don't identify with the programs? Anyone currently go to school there can see if this is happening on campus?
There are lots of students who are going there just for an education. They couldn't care less about VT sports in general let alone football. It's a lot harder academically to get in now than it was a decade ago. And this is just a complete generalization but the kids in high school with the highest GPAs generally cared the least about sports.
If I had a trillion-babillion-lil' wayne money, the solution would be to create a stadium like the Seahawks have. It's a roofed building so fans don't get wet, it's still an outdoor stadium, and it keeps in the noise. Wi-Fi is pretty great there as well. Here's a picture:
In person attendance is down because if you are not a national championship contender, your season doesn't matter. Schools used to build monuments to teams that went to a bowl or won a conference title. Now, it means nothing because of the BCS.