I haven't had a chance to time how long it takes for our offense to transition the ball from center to Thomas to the back. It just seems to me that its a slower process than the other teams we have faced and this plays a role in how these defensive fronts are closing holes, hitting the back in the backfield etc. I know that the defenses we have faced have been stacking the box to force us to pass but there still seems to be a dramatic pause once the ball hits Logan's hands. Maybe its the line allowing greater penetration and I am imagining how long the handoff or pitches take but I also wonder if its how long Logan takes to assess the handoff or keep option he has on many plays. I was wondering what those of you that really dig into the offense think about it.
Handoff transition - Slow or Imaginary?
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I remember thinking that Logan's freshman year compared to tyrod, but convinced myself it just looked different do to his larger size. I'd be interested in a definitive answer, but if true, i don't think its something new
I agree completely. I have always thought that LT takes way longer even in his 5 or 7 foot drop. Maybe it is his height but he definitely seems to take longer to get back there and hand off. I get very frustrated each game when Trey is trying to get the ball but has to stop his forward momentum for LT to decide if he is going to hand it off or not. Zone read is great and helps us but we do need some down hill running as well.
I think you hit on something there that caused me to ask the question in the first place. Its that as its happening you almost see the running backs stop...not just slow down.
It also seems that when we run play actions, Logan hands off to the wrong side like half the time.
This may be because the RB is going the other way to pick up a block but I just seem to notice it more with us than any other team.
I've seen this mentioned a couple of times on here, so I'd like to address it. This is done by design.
Almost all defensive coordinators have their linebackers read the offensive line (not the running back) to determine if a play is a run or not. Since Tech runs a lot of outside zone, this play design has logan and the offensive linemen stepping to their left (for example). The linebackers see the QB and the Offensive Line heading one direction, and automatically attack that direction. They aren't really looking at Edmunds, at least not keying off of him.
Since the offensive line was headed left, the backside defensive end could pose a pass rush problem, so the running back has to pick him up. Whether or not Edmunds is in position to reciever a hand off doesn't matter, the linebackers are out of position by the time they realize it's a pass.
Loeffler likes to use this fake to draw the linebackers in, and then have his WR's run intermediate routes behind them but in front of the secondary. It's very effective if the defense is heavily keying the run game.
So far I am not a fan of the read option. I think we have ran too many plays with it and because I have the same feeling that it is happening so damn slow, it looks predictable and definitely not explosive. Looking at GT and how they do read options compared to how Logan is doing it is night and day. It needs to be immediate and decisive.
right now I feel Lefty's read option is a replacement for O'Cainspring's screen pass. Both slow to develop, overplayed, predictable and yet to really work well.
Read a lot this week about Lefty working different portions of the playbook each game and not the whole playbook together, so I hope we see a more complete playbook this week and less read option. Especially on 4th and 1 from Shotgun.
You had to go and bring up that little bit of wonderful "Especially on 4th and 1 from Shotgun"....I about lost an entire bottle of Jack when they lined up that way. Its especially bad when the television broadcast guys, who had been mediocre at best all day are going, "Well, I assume that with a quarterback that's 6'6" and 235 they will line Logan up and run the sneak" Bad day when they seem to have better situational awareness than the entire offensive coaching staff.
I agree the handoff looks slow. From under-center, the option needs to be a quick hit, but from the gun, the play needs time to develop. You guys should go check out french's It Wasn't Pretty... He does a great job of breaking down the playbook we've seen thus far. The read option isn't one play, but rather a category of the playbook. The run game hasn't been great against 7-8 in the box, but that's to be expected when the passing game has been so inconsistent.
fully aware it is not just 1 play. The problem is that on almost all read option plays its the same slow decision and handoff. So far I am not a fan of it, though I know it's a good tool in the playbook. It just has not produced the results and we seem to keep going back to it.
I hate to say this, but it seems like Logan just isn't a fast decision maker both in the running and passing game. He hesitates too long on whether or not to hold on to the ball on the read option, just as he hesitates on a lot of throws. This small hesitation often is the difference between a loss of yardage play and a good gain, or a incompletion and a catch. As Bud Foster would say, Logan's mind is tying up his feet. A lot of that can be fixed by repetition, but how quickly players master it depends on the individual. I'm worried that Logan is an individual that needs a ton of reps and that he won't have enough time to put it all together. It's a shame because he has all the physical tools for the job, but the mental aspect of quarterbacking is so far behind.
I think a lot of this can be trust, too. This isn't a defense of his being slower (at least seemingly), but just in general of every quarterback out there. Particularly when you don't trust a receiver to catch a ball, or run the right route, that can get in your head and keep you from making that choice to go to them, even if they are wide open, or will be wide open.
If you don't trust a lineman to maintain a block, even though you want to run one way, or hand off the ball to the RB who looks like he has or may have a big hole to run through, you'll be delayed in making that choice because you expect to be tackled due to a block failing. There are a lot of things that can slow down your decision making, and perhaps the biggest thing is just letting whatever happen happen.
I thought that being a little slower at the mesh point was good when running the Zone Read. The announcers seem to point that out after Logan's read option TD run in the video below.
Its ok to draw it out but you cant stop your running backs momentum completely or the defense isn't going to be diverted to the back when the qb draws it out.