Frank Beamer said before the season started that he wanted the program that he made nationally relevant to regain its reputation as a tough team. After an offseason of staff changes and a spring and summer of intense practices, it's clear through five games that the team Beamer runs out on the field every week is as tough as any in the country.
For the Hokies to go out and win this game is very impressive, and to win it by holding Georgia Tech to 129 rushing yards is downright ridiculous. That's an absurd number. Even more absurd is the short week the Hokies had to get ready for this brutal matchup. Four days? That's just not enough time. Not enough time to get prepared for the most unique offense Tech will face all season, not enough time to get everyone healthy again after a surprisingly tough game against Marshall, not enough time for Logan Thomas to even take a single practice snap.
Not many people were picking the Hokies to win this matchup. Why would they? The offense has looked less than inspiring as it worked it's way through an identity crisis and the defense was set up for failure by facing Paul Johnson on a short week. This Frank Beamer team is too tough to ever be counted out though, and the players all rallied around two solid game plans by their coaches and fought their way to a well-deserved victory.
Finding An Identity
Coming into ACC play, I had a lot of question about what Loeffler's vision for the offense truly was. At times he seemed committed to running from under center and at others it appeared he wanted to throw the ball all over the field. I assumed that Loeffler had a plan for the offense and was moving it in a specific direction but it wasn't clear what style of offense he was envisioning. Well, on Thursday night, Tech not only found itself on top of the leaderboard in the ACC Coastal Division but also found an offensive identity.
Loeffler's offense will be built on the biggest weapon the team has week in and week out, Logan Thomas rushing from the spread formation. If defenses load up the box to stop the rushing attack from the spread, then Logan will be asked to throw short, high percentage throws to mismatches caused by personnel groupings (running backs, tight ends, and fullbacks split out wide). Plays from under center will be used if defenses are overmatched up front or if they overreact to Loeffler placing RB's on the perimeter by bringing extra secondary players onto the field.
Logan Thomas: All In
Scott Loeffler officially placed all of his eggs in Logan Thomas' basket on Thursday night. His game plan made clear that Thomas was going to be the featured weapon for the rest of the season. Logan was asked to do everything against the Yellow Jackets, and he responded with one of the best games of his career after being too hurt to practice and having just a short week to recover from the game against Marshall.
When Loeffler got hired, I suspected that he was going to use Logan Thomas's gift as a powerful inside runner frequently throughout the season. I was surprised when, through the first 3 games of the season, Thomas wasn't running the inverted veer (the perfect play for a large rushing QB). I refused to believe that Loeffler didn't have the play in his playbook and instead assumed that he was holding back from using those plays in order to keep Thomas healthy and prevent ACC defenses from getting too much tape on what he wanted to do. While maintaining radio silence on the inverted veer, Loeffler spent every week focusing on a different portion of his playbook. Western Carolina wasn't quite talented enough to stop even the most basic of plays, so Loeffler used that game to work on his base plays from under center and from shotgun. Eastern Carolina received a healthy dose of five wide, featuring running backs, tight ends, and fullbacks split out wide. Last week, Marshall saw hardly zero five wide but saw a ton of pistol. Out of that Pistol Logan Thomas ran the veer read early and often. He did run the inverted veer a few times, just enough to whet my appetite for it.
Thursday night though, Loeffler showed he was going all in with the inverted veer this season. Using the exact play design I wrote about earlier this summer, Thomas was sent crashing into Georgia Tech's line again and again and again. Once Virginia Tech got inside the 10-yard-line on their second touchdown drive, it was all Logan Thomas.
00:05:57–00:06:14
On two straight plays, Virginia Tech threatened the edge with it's best perimeter runner (J.C. Coleman) and then had it's best interior runner (Logan Thomas) crash through the line behind a pulling Caleb Farris. Touchdown Tech!
Georgia Tech never brought enough defenders into the box to stop the run on the first play. They seemed ill prepared to face the inverted veer here, as they were playing with two deep safeties. The only way Logan wasn't going to pick up good yardage here was if he tripped over his own feet.
On the next play, Thomas barrels his way into the endzone behind some great blocking up front. Running Logan Thomas in the inverted veer is the best way to use him. It is a low risk play that puts the offensive linemen in a position to get favorable angles on their blocks and maximizes Logan's skill set. Now opposing defensive coordinators will be obsessing over how to stop this short yardage machine, so the Hokies will have to find ways to put some window dressing on the inverted veer to keep it effective.
Running Back Versatility
Looking at the roster, Loeffler, Grimes, and Shane Beamer had a challenge coming into the season. They had a number of running backs who were capable of contributing right away, but they all had different skill sets. Edmunds and Caleb show good power in between the tackles, while Mangus and Coleman are more valuable when in space. The three had to find a way to get these playmakers into the game without tipping their hand to the defense about what was coming next. Their solution does a good job of keeping the opposition guessing and also helps to solve another issue the team faces, lack of depth at the wide receiver position.
Loeffler has the luxury of having three running backs with WR experience. Coleman, Mangus, and Caleb have all spent time lined up out wide. Combined with Sam Rogers and Kalvin Cline (who both have proven to be good blockers and receivers) Loeffler has the ability to bring in a traditional "power" personnel grouping but still line up in a spread formation. A linebacker isn't going to be able to cover a healthy J.C. Coleman or Chris Mangus on a route but the defensive coordinator can't risk bringing in a cornerback to do the job because Tech could still use this grouping to run the ball, either from under center or with the IV.
00:04:41–00:04:44
This play doesn't seem like much because it isn't terribly successful, but it is a good example of how Loeffler will line his RB's up in unconventional ways to create running angles and personnel mismatches. We see Tech line up in the pistol, with Edmunds as the primary back, Sam Rodgers lined up in a H-Back spot, and Coleman lined up as a wide receiver then gets motioned across the face of the formation right before the snap. This is a designed hand off to Trey Edmunds and the Georgia Tech front-seven had it defended well, but if you watch the top of the screen you can see the bind it puts the two-deep safety defense in.
When Logan fakes a handoff to Coleman, the field safety has to drop into the box and the corner has to drop back into a deep-third zone. Byrn is in a good position to make a block on the safety, sealing the inside and allowing Coleman to attack the sideline. The only player in position to stop Coleman is a cornerback who is already retreating into a deep zone, and even if he recovers to challenge Coleman he has to make a tackle in space against a talented runner.
We'll see this defense again against teams that want to force the Hokies to march all the way down the field. With two deep safeties, the Hokies should absolutely be running the ball on 1st-and-10 (the defense doesn't have enough defenders in the box to counter all the blockers and potential ball carriers) and will have more effectiveness when Coleman is healthy.
Later on we see Coleman and Edmunds again in the game with Sam Rogers, but this time Logan is in the shotgun instead of the pistol. From here, Logan could IV to his right with Edmunds receiving the handoff or Logan can IV to his left by motioning Coleman across the formation.
00:07:58–00:08:02
Loeffler tries a play action here and Georgia Tech defends it very well. Even though the play resulted in an incompletion, we can see how difficult it is for the defense to diagnose where the play is going pre-snap. Edmunds and Coleman can attack either flank and Logan can attack up the middle.
While the Hokies will build their offense around the threat of the QB run doesnt mean that Loeffler wants Logan Thomas to lead the team in carries every week. Edmunds wasnt effective and didnt look like he did earlier in the season. Whatever injury he picked up in the Marshall game was still clearly affecting him, and the coaches limited his carries. Georgia Tech also took away the handoff on the inverted veer by stretching their defensive ends horizontally down the line, which contributed to J.C. not having a single carry all game. Coleman did play a lot of snaps however. In my opinion, that means the coaches didn't think his ankle was 100 percent yet, but they wanted to get him in the game to use as a decoy and they probably just wanted to get him game reps. Once Edmunds and Coleman are trusted to hold up under the physical strain of a full workload in an ACC game, opposing defenses will have to plan for a three headed rushing attack. Mix in the handful of looks Mangus and Caleb deserve, and its going to be a nightmare to game plan for this rushing attack.
The Jacks Of All Trades
When Loeffler said he likes using tight ends and H-Backs, he wasn't joking. You'll be hard pressed to find many plays where the Hokies didn't have one of those two in there. They both bring something to the table the other lacks (Rogers is trusted to carry the ball on the occasional FB dive from the pistol and Cline is a better threat down the field) and they both play similarly vital roles. Rogers and Cline are frequently asked to block defensive ends on Tech's inverted veer plays. Cline does a great job sealing his man away from the middle of the field on Thomas's touchdown run. We all know how tough Rogers is, but I've been pleasantly surprised by the willingness Cline shows to get dirty in the run game.
00:08:02–00:08:11
Cline does an excellent, excellent job on this play. He knows pre snap he's going to have to take on the 270-pound senior defensive tackle. Cline is giving up four years of college football experience and, according to HokieSports.com, 30 pounds. Still, he doesn't shy away from the contact and attacks the defensive end. Cline ends up on the ground, but by then Thomas is well on his way to a huge gain. Cline didn't get a pancake but he brought his lunch pail to work, did his job, and the team picked up good yardage. He and Rogers are both true freshmen and I am looking forward to watching them continue their growth and development in Loeffler's offense.
Linebackers On Wide Receivers
The biggest benefit to spreading the field with running backs and tight ends is the matchup of linebackers with wide receivers. Willie Byrn, as the usual slot receiver, has been the lucky recipient of most of those mismatches so far this season and that continued on Thursday night.
Georgia Tech dropped into a zone almost every time the Hokies went five-wide. When going five-wide, Loeffler likes to put his RB all the way on the outside. This alignment forces a linebacker to account for a WR across the middle, a speed mismatch Logan attacked for good yardage. With the threat of an inverted veer, Georgia Tech would keep two linebackers in the game at all times. Logan would key off of those two linebackers and make his throwing decision based off their movements.
00:05:03–00:05:11
Here, the linebacker to the field drops down the middle to cover Kalvin Cline's vertical route. This space is attacked by Byrn's crossing route. The second linebacker has no shot of covering the quicker Byrn and Logan makes the correct read to drop it off underneath.
Later, he spreads Joel Caleb out wide and reads the linebacker's reaction to D.J. Coles' vertical route. When the linebacker gets depth, Knowles drops in behind him into the vacated space and gets a nice yards after the catch.
00:05:50–00:05:57
Who We Are
This offense isn't going to try and be explosive by airing the ball out down the field. Instead, it'll focus on forcing the defense to defend against a powerful dual threat quarterback. From there, it'll use a wide array of formations to create favorable blocking angles for its running backs and coverage mismatches for its wide receivers. If a defense isn't capable of defending against the run from under center Loeffler will happily use that portion of his playbook, but he won't hesitate to run spread almost exclusively when necessary. Now, don't get it twisted, I'm not saying the Hokies won't have explosive plays on offense. There will be times when the other team is sick of seeing eight yard completion after eight yard completion. They will start to creep up and start jumping those routes. When that happens, Logan and his receivers need to capitalize with double moves.
00:21:48–00:21:56
Loeffler is going to be asking a lot of Logan Thomas. When teams don't respect his feet by placing the appropriate amount of hats in the box, Thomas will be asked to carry over 20 times a game. When teams play two deep safeties and attempt to keep everything in front of them, Logan will need to keep the offense on schedule by making quick decisions and accurate throws to the open receivers. When teams decide to challenge Tech's young receivers, Logan will have to hang in the pocket so they can break free and then he'll have to hit them with the football in stride. At times Logan is still struggling with his mechanics when under pressure, but he seems to be getting better and better every game. If the improvement continues, then Logan is poised to have a strong second half of the season.
This defense is good enough to win plenty of games for the Hokies this season. The offense doesn't need to go score 40 points a game to contend for the Coastal Division. With that in mind, Loeffler running a ball-control offense makes the most sense. He can maximize the offensive talent he has with this game plan, and he can maximize the value of a great defense. By picking up first downs and holding onto the football, Loeffler will let his defense rest. When Foster's unit takes the field, they'll be even deadlier... which should help Loeffler's group get better field position. See how one hand washes the other? The offense sets up the defense, and the defense sets up the offense. BeamerBall.
Comments
Yes yes yes, thanks Mason. This was a great read. I'm so stoked for Saturday now. Hopefully a hungry team motivated from last seasons loss, some momentum from GT, a solid offense and a Lunch Pail Defense will all contribute to a convincing ACC win.
Sack up y'all, I think we're going to have a fun season.
Turkey leg for "sack up"
Awesome write up. I'm just ecstatic that deep balls don't appear to be a part of our offense, since anyone who has read my weekly game analysis can tell that I hate the deep ball and it has led to half of Logan's interceptions.
Totally agree! Especially considering at times this young receiver group is just going too drop the ball. That takes even more probability out of it working.
Thank you for the Fantastic analysis Mason!
I'm a fan of deep balls, just not jump balls.
If our receiver has his man beat, Logan is going to have to deliver the ball. On the 3 deep Logan INTs this year, it was just a jump ball situation and Logan shouldn't have thrown it. That being said, jump ball INTs are the best kind, because they effectively serve as a punt.
Which brings me to my next point; Has anyone else noticed that while our offense hasn't scored a lot, they haven't been serving up touchdowns to the other teams defense? The pick-6 in the opener is the lone exception this year, and came against a superior opponent. Last year our offense gift-wrapped touchdowns to LOLUVA and Rutgers to end the season. Obviously hard to win those games if your scoring less than 20 pts and spotting them an extra 7. Looks like mistakes are being minimized with Loeffler's offense this year.
He (Loeffler) has made the point that VT is 100-6 or something ridiculous like that when winning the TO battle so I'd guess that is factoring in to his game planning.
Yeah, throwing the ball deep is going to happen. If only because defenses will either have to play more aggressively at the line of scrimmage or get nickel and dimed down the field. Add in how stingy the defense will be all year, and oppossing coordinators won't have the luxury on waiting for the Tech offense to screw up. They'll have to try and make some plays, which will inevitably open up chances to get behind the secondary.
As far as interceptions... well... there have been a lot of dropped picks by Hokie opponents. I do think that Loeffler's short passing game is better conceived then last years, so it's harder for defenses to jump those routes and trap Logan so that helps.
Strong read, thank you! After years of Stinecain offense, I had started to sour on the concept of 'multiple' offenses generally. My bad. This is what a multiple offense is supposed to be - not one that tries to do a little of everything at all times, but rather one that is comfortable toggling between run-heavy and pass-heavy strategies within its same core group of personnel, based on the looks that they get from the defense and where they can create a mismatch. Really nicely broken down here, especially if you contrast with how we attacked similar looks in previous years (want to force us from a favorable in-the-box numbers matchup into a low-percentage deep sideline route? Just walk those corners on up!!).
Can we cite this as the creation of new terminology?
Stiencainian: (adj.) derogatory term denoting a type of offense in American football, primarily one that ignores common offensive structure. syn: simplistic
*O'Cainspringian
Thanks for the analysis!
I like what I've seen of the evolution of this offense, and I'm anxious to see more plays out of Loeffler's playbook.
This is shaping up to be a fun year!
That play you highlighted on Knowles was what I was posting about last week.
He should be a deep threat, but he seems tentative to get the ball in one-on-one coverage.
When he gets the ball underneath, he seems to catch it well, and then he is a threat to break for signficant YAC's.
I'm ecstatic to see adjustments being made by the coaching staff weekly that effectively utilize the players that we have.
I can't wait to see where we go when the Offensive staff have THEIR players in the system for a year or two.
Thanks for the analysis; great stuff.
The thing I have seen that makes me the happiest is the crossing routes. I swear they did not exist the past couple of years. I'll take 8 yard completions all day. Tom Brady makes a living in that region, and one of the reasons he has started cold is that he has really missed Welker doing that dirty work. Great write up. It's so nice to see we have a true chess player in the booth calling the plays now.
I'm excited to recognize some of the Hokies playbook on Sunday football.
The zone blocking, the counters, the underneath throws, the crossing routes, these are all bread-and-butter Pro offense plays. Pros like Brady are throwing for 300 yds a game without having to make amazing, low-percentage downfield throws. Its good to see the Hokies adopting this, and the upside for the offense is high, especially when comparing 5 games into this season with what we saw late last season.
I think I'm starting to see the method to the madness of offering this site for free. You guys are trying to apply the "Next Man Up" concept to coaching: If Beamer, Foster, or Loeffler go down in the middle of a game, you guys are trying to make it possible to pull any single person out of the stands at Lane and see no drop-off in coaching. Seriously, though, thanks for all of the time you guys put into this... you all do just an incredible job analyzing and explaining.
Thanks for the write up. As always, absolutely fantastic. Thanks to this site, I'm seeing things I never really saw before. For starters, the TD pass at the start of the game was a play of beauty. Every time they showed the replay, I was gushing with praise for the design and execution of that play. Give a WR an open field catch and one person to beat (who is being blocked by another WR) and it's surefire win.
Awesome write up, I learn so much more from pictures and videos that I ever will with the X/O diagrams that football ignoramuses like me have a hard time processing.
I have a little bone to pick, though. I agree that four days is an absurdly short time to prepare for GT's offense, but I think this year is a little different than normal. We have Foster, obviously, but we also have a lot of players that have seen this offense before, and Vad Lee is worse at running PJ's offense than any quarterback we've seen in recent years. No doubt he's a better passer, and no doubt that he'll get better at it in the future, but our D has had more experience defending it than he has running it, so I think this year was definitely the best year for us to have to play them on four days' rest.
Agreed, this was Foster's All-Star Team for defending PJ's offense. He was playing 6+ players who have always played their best games against GT. He was playing guys who are GT specialists.
And Vad Lee is not good (yet).
But-but-but 4 passing TDs against Duke!
While I agree, that's a bit like saying "He's the best player on the UVA football team". At the end of the day, he's still a Wahoo.
Great write up, and I wish the "Bench Logan" as well as the "Loeffler sucks too" camps would read this. Especially the asshat that sits behind me in section 7.
There is a "Loeffler Sucks" camp? After 5 games and 4-1? How many tents?
Thankfully the Loeffler critics have calmed down, but there are still fans (again, the idiot behind me that my wife won't let me fight) that expect us to be Oregon or Texas Tech on offense while maintaining our defensive dominance.
My biggest pet peeve is the camp that thinks the coaches are part of some conspiracy to keep Mark Leal's brilliance off the field. Hopefully that will calm down after the GT game and hopefully another solid day against UNC.
We're very fortunate to have such dedicated and capable QB as Logan Thomas. He will continue to meet or shatter VT offense records as the season goes on.
This is how much Ryan Malleck's injury sucks, because a Malleck-Cline tandem would be nightmarish to defend, in addition to having a fullback leaking out of the backfield, running back screen to Magnus or Coleman, and the wide receivers being hit with underneath routes for moving-the-chains gains.
That does not even account for Logan Thomas or The Judge softening up the front four of the opponent's defense with inside/off-tackle runs.
I can see why Loeffler wanted the Hokies to be similar to the Patriots' offense. I am also glad that Thomas is finally hitting the high percentage passes with occassional shots down the field to stretch the defense. If he can force the defense to respect the passing threat, that should open up rushing attack from a fully healthy Edmunds and Coleman.
I wonder if next season, we will see the offense switching to a similar attacking offense a la New Orelans with a shorter quarterback in Mark Leal (assuming, of course, he wins the starting job in the spring camp). Or heck, maybe with a Seahawks aggressive offense scheme where with Leal's mobility, Loeffler could be flexible in opening up the defense with Leal's running threat and dart-like passes.
It will be interesting to see the evolution of Loeffler's offense, to say the least.
That's the greatest luxury of having a "multiple" offense. It allows you to change your plans very easily based on personnel matchups. Next year, I don't think we'll see as much inverted veer, but we'll probably see more pistol veer and more under center formations.
Mason -- Excellent as always.
IMO, this O (from the GT game) is more Clemson-esque regarding pre-snap motions, reads, and mismatches.
You've got a good dual-threat QB who's going to read what the defense gives him and make those throws to get the yards. While we don't have a Sammy Watkins or anyone else that's that explosive for a home-run threat just yet, but b doing this we SHOULD get 5 yards a pop each time we touch the ball -- run the mismatch all day so the D has to cover our RB or our QB in the running game all day, and when we get the mis-match or sneaking-up DB's, get the explosive play!
...Shameless plug -- this is how I run my O in NCAA14 haha.
EDIT: Sorry! Credit to wrong person!
*Mason
Mason -- Thanks for helping us laymen understand what's going on.
A couple of counterpoints posed as questions:
1. Is our OL struggling to execute because of skill or because of confusion? Is the plan to "use a wide array of formations to create favorable blocking angles" working?
2. Remember LT's deep ball? It was a thing of beauty. Instead, our offense is predicated on him throwing crossing routes, shallow crossing routes with less margin for error, which he seems to throw 75% of them behind the receiver. Is this passing attack best suited for LT's strengths?
3. Are we really running "options" on the veer? It seems like either LT isn't comfortable making those decisions or we have taken the decision out of his hand and it is simply a playfake for a QB draw. That's not unusual, we heard ESPN say that PJ tells VadLee what "option" to select on any given play. But it would make our life a lot easier as fans if we understood that giving it to JCC on the sweep isn't an "option" for LT, he's told to fake that sweep and crash into the middle, no matter if 4 Marshall players are standing there or not.
4. Wasn't there a lot of opposition on this board to the Pistol when OCainSpring ran it? Wasn't it deemed not well suited for LT's strengths as a runner?
At this point, I'm concerned. I see a bunch of hullabaloo and us depending on LT to ram it down their throats. I see an OL that looks like they are pretty talented not performing as a unit. I see VT not bloody'ing our opponents noses, on offense at least (cue Vad Lee looking for his mouthpiece).
What Would Pep Hamilton Do?
I don't think Pep would be doing dramatically better. You have to realize that the previous staff did more to hurt these kids than help them. They have to relearn to walk before they can run. This is going to be a long process and it will take time. It's unfair for us to expect Clemson like results in less than a year in a new system. Before Chad Morris, Clemson had more talent and better fundamentals than we had with ocainspringsome. I believe Loeffler is doing the best he can with the mess that was left behind for him.
He will field an effective offense in a few years once he brings in the right players. Right now he's working with a slew of TEs and RBs converted to other positions.
Agree on #3... There was one option/sweep play in the GT game that was wide open, if he gives it to JC-- it would have been a big gainer... It does seem like LT was just told to keep and head up the middle on most of his plays. it seems that would keep the D a little more honest...
Also, Mangus missed a big gainer by not taking it up field on one of his edge runs. It was wide open but he just strung it out all the way to the sideline... I'm ready to se some TBs start making big plays that have been missing the last three weeks...
Keep in mind how Loeffler wants to set everything up. Yes, the sweep might have gone for good yardage there, but I think Loeffler wanted to force the defense to key in on Logan running up the middle and start flying up in run support. This leaves those nice short crossing routes (easy, high percentage throws) wide open with plenty of room for good YAC (see Demitri). I'll be very interested to see if Lefty opens things up with the sweeps a little bit more going forward, and see if we can catch a safety or linebacker looking at Logan just a little too long just to have JCC or Mangus run right by him.
A deep ball is useless if you don't have anybody reliable enough to go get it.
Maybe someone will step up as the season goes on, but as of now, we don't have the guy. And we expected to in Knowles.
I think our OL is doing about as well as you could reasonably ask. They are holding their own (most of the time) while running a completely new offensive system then they did last year. Is the game plan helping them improve? Well I don't think it's a coincidence that we haven't seen much zone running from center the past few games. It hasn't been as effective as the runs from pistol/shotgun.
It's best suited for Virginia Tech's strengths, and that's what matters. People frequently underestimate how important WR's are to a vertical passing attack. The past two years Logan has been throwing deep balls to Danny Coale, Jarret Boykin, Marcus Davis, Corey Fuller, a healthy DJ Coles... this receiving corp just isn't suited for a passing attack based on a vertical threat.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If I had to guess, mostly no. As long as the defense has to prepare for a handoff or a keeper out of the same formation and backfield motion, isn't that a big enough benefit? Are the extra reps in practice to perfect the veer options justified?
One thing to keep in mind, a lot of those handoffs are probably predetermined pre-snap, based off of defensive alignment. Logan is probably coached to think "hand off if the defensive end is aligned here, and keep if the defensive end is aligned there" for a lot of those plays... the same way that the WR's are told to run one route vs one coverage and a different route vs another.
Ocainspring's pistol package was awful. Just straight... bad. It was an offensive scheme that was not division 1 worthy. Many people blamed the formation rather then the scheme (which is understandable, if you see an offense go nowhere for an entire season out of a certain formation, human nature is to blame the formation). And Logan is definitely more effective running straight ahead rather then at an angle to the LOS (the pistol veer will force Logan outside on a keeper).
However the pistol is an important piece of the offensive puzzle moving forward. It is a great formation that gives Loeffler great flexibility to attack defenses with.
Thanks, good insight. I'm not sure if any of those answers make me feel any better. Basically:
1. There have been some components of the OL's play that have shown improvement, but when you can't move guys off the ball, it certainly feels like you aren't functioning at your best. I refuse to believe it's talent, this OL is as good as we have had in a while. I know the coaching is better. Maybe we will start to see dramatic improvements the rest of the way as they start functioning better as a unit.
2. I agree with your explanation that LT's skills and the WR corps are not a good mix. That's just sad. I'm hopeful that Facyson can provide some duct tape as an occasional over-the-top threat. And if LT is ever to meet his ceiling, he has to get better at these crossing throws. At least he's getting plenty of practice at one of his weaknesses.
3. Your explanation of the veer "option" is a good one and what I was thinking was happening. I think most people see "option action" and assume the option is open, when it could simply be cover or, like you said, a pre-snap read.
4. I'm trying to be patient with Loeffler and hope he can make some chicken salad of this Pistol. If we were 2-3 right now, my patience may be a little less. It's been a long time since we have brought it all together offensively. When it happens, there will be rainbows and kittens and unicorns selling cotton candy.
Honestly I'm not convinced the offensive line is as talented as any we've had. They are warriors who give everything they've got, but I see very little evidence that they'll be able to blow people off the ball
Question about the Inverted Veer-based running game. If I were a D-Coordinator (and from reading this site, I think I could be), I would have my run defense keyed on taking away the hand off and forcing LT to keep. Much like what we have done against an option team in Gah Tech the last few years. LT3 gets moderate yards-per-touch early, but takes a pounding and starts making bad decisions later.
How would you combat this type of strategy?
GT was selling out on the QB keeper late in the game. The hand off on the sweep keeps the defense honest.
Okay, now I get that the sweep keeps the d-line and the linebackers on that side honest, but does that open up the keeper for a big gain, or can the LBs and DE on the veer side still guide the veer so Thomas gets hit?
Regarding number 3, against Marshall there were options and Logan was reading the linebacker on inverted veer and the end on veer. If the tight end is pulling from the pistol, it is pretty much a give all the way from what I have seen. Against GT, we saw almost no veer or the tight end trap. It was all inverted veer, and to be honest it didn't seem like Thomas was reading much of anything. I was actually unhappy that Mangus was underutilized, and one or two effective gives on the inverted veer would have opened up things even more for Thomas in the middle. I am still unsure if that is a by product of the injuries to the running backs, if GT presented some kind of weakness to the inverted veer, or if this is now the offense that Loeffler wants to run. But, given past comments, I think the Hokies came in short handed, and planned to use the passing game to move the football with Thomas as the compliment to the passing game.
East Carolina barely runs the ball, but racked up 220+ yards rushing against North Carolina. If there was ever a week for the Hokies to line up with a tight end and the I formation, it is this week. UNC's defensive line will quit if the Hokies OL is tenacious and keeps their leg drive going after initial contact. I don't think that Logan Thomas can sustain the physical beating he took this week. They have to compliment him with their core of backs.
There's one of three reasons Logan didn't hand off on the inverted veer read last game; 1) He was told not to by a coach, 2) he made the wrong read or 3) he didn't care if it was open, he wanted the ball.
I've seen too many reads this year where Logan and the back fight over the ball, and I think Logan has been a bit selfish with the "read". I am a Logan fan, but he should be handing it off a bit more on the read, assuming it is his decision. We need him to make it through the entire season (and bowl game :) ) to get the most out of this offense.
Also, imagine the challenge for UNC's defensive coordinator. They now have film on the Hokies running:
1) the inverted veer series
2) the veer pistol
3) pistol trap series
4) zone stretch and inside zone series
5) bootleg and play action pass pro
6) pass pro-spread
7) pistol/shotgun play action
And, while the VT passing game isn't lighting the world on fire, six receivers have more than five catches. Every passing down has the potential of multiple receivers catching the ball, with no clear indicators (with the exception of DJ Coles on a deep in from play action out of the pistol) based on formation as to who will be targeted. Screens and draws are also possibilities.
I always have preferred to pick something and be great at it. But, as long as the Hokies can execute up front, the Loeffler potpourri approach has to be a nightmare for DC's to prepare for.
Living in NC, I get to hear more from UNC's perspective, and you are spot on. Koenning has said VT's concept packages are much more diverse in scope this year. Last year, UNC was able to key in on limited concepts last season and double certain WRs based on formations. That won't be an option this time around, which will put UNC in more 1 on 1 matchups in space.
I am actually really worried about the offense...
Can someone reassure me? Why do we look like such a different O every week? Isn't that the opposite of an identity?
How is it ok that we had so few yards from our running backs against GT? I want Logan to not have to do all the work...
Our identity is to create mismatches and put our guys in the best situation to succeed, whether it's through the air or on the ground. Look what we did against ECU, we made adjustments and won the game.
I understand your concern about our RBs but they weren't 100%. Trey is still dealing with a hip injury and JC is recovering from a high ankle sprain. Our only two 'healthy' backs are Chris Mangus and an extremely raw Joel Caleb. If they can't make plays, then you have to adjust to what the defense gives you.
Edit: 4 wins. Turkey leg, sir
Adjustments.
Key word. I really like loeffler because of the adjustments he is able to make to create mismatches. He's doing enough with an inherited offensive skill set to get us 4 wins so far. It's a great compliment to our Defense. And each week we're getting better!
"3" ? Please, we need all the wins we can get. 4 and counting, Go Hokies!
I kind of get the feeling that Loeffler is working towards a desired offensive identity that might be described as sort of a rolling ball of butcher knives. So far we've shown that we can beat the other team with our QB's feet, and by passing, both from multiple formations. We did a decent job of running the football in the Bama game, so that's on film too. Agree with French that the different looks have to make opposing DC's crazy.
So far, it seems that Loeffler is very willing to search for the soft underbelly of our opponent and keep jabbing at it. This is fantastic, especially when compared to last year's offense (see: Wide receiver screen). It seems like each week we have attacked our opponent in a different way, because they have different weaknesses. Wow, what a concept! The biggest problems that I think we have faced are inexperience in the system (everybody), WR play (thank goodness for the JUGS machine and Moorehead) and injuries. I think everyone is just starting to get comfortable in the system. Drops early on set us back, but that seems to be getting better. Malleck's injury has had a huge impact and it couldn't have come at a worse time, right before Alabama. Edmunds has been dinged up, Coleman is just now getting back up to speed. Attrition has had an impact, but as always, next man up. I think the O has a much higher upside than down. Further effort is required, though. Improve everyday, and I think we'll see an impressive offense in the ACCCG.
Wow.
An offense that attacks perceived defensive weaknesses and then adjusts in game.
Did I go to heaven?
Loeffler painstakingly installed the outside zone and Grimes got the line working as a cohesive unit to allow the offense to make the adjustments based the opposing D.
I think we run big on UNC and keep their weapons off of the field.
+1 solely for the use of the phrase "rolling ball of butcher knives". I'm gonna steal that one.
...but you have to use it with "soft underbelly", lol.
I've equated Logan's ability to a cresent wrench; You can drive a nail with it if you have to, but the preference is to use a hammer.
While we got a win against a good GT defense this week, I am worried that Logan is taking too much of a pounding running the ball so often. We should have a running game that compliments the short pass, one with fast backs sweeping outside, power backs running through the line, and only the occasional QB read or draw.
Every defense will have trouble accounting for a 260 lb RB with the option to throw on every play, but Loeffler needs to develop a running game that doesn't rely on our best passer.
I'm starting to become concerned that this will happen to my head with all the football knowledge I'm gaining:
Ive learned more from TKP this football season than in my two months in med school.
Up-vote for scrubs reference, every time
Excellent work as always, Mason!
During that entire game, I kept thinking that if we could incorporate pump fakes in this offense, we could certainly be a force to be reckoned with offensively as well as defensively. For instance, the play you described above puts Joshua Stanford in a one-on-one situation with GT's CB.
On this particular play, Stanford bends the route under the CB who shades towards the sideline the entire time. However, if Logan pump fakes to Byrn underneath it could cause the corner to bite thus freeing up Stanford for the easy touchdown. Of course on this particular play it would help to change Stanford's square-in route to a sluggo, but do you think this could be in our future?
It just seems like all season we've set ourselves up to only throw passes within 10-yards of the LOS. I think there's a good chance we could smash teams with an occasional deep ball, thereby making defenses respect the potential for the deep pass.
And, this works against any zone look. The big challenge to the Hokies will be when they play teams that use nickel corners playing man on those crossing routes. Fortunately GT didn't have the corners and were forced to play zone or man under with linebackers, and those linebackers were completely outmatched.
GT would have the corners.....if they were the ones to sign Facyson and not VT! (cue maniacal laughter....)
Such a trader, that Facyson...
And zing
And Tech will definitely take those shots when they present themselves. If that Corner starts jumping Stanford's route, then expect to see just such a double move. If he doesn't start doing that though, it's probably in Tech's best interest to go ahead and take those short throws after short throws. Especially on a 1st and 10. Ball-control and getting first downs should be the goal, in order to keep the defense rested and in good field position.
I think that's a wrinkle to get added. We know LT can make the throw.
Now that it appears the game plan doesn't include it, it'll get added as necessary and ready for implementation. And not before.
When the cameras showed Loefller in the booth vs GT, he was standing and pacing the entire time. Dude is intense.
Also, re: the deep balls. We don't have any receiver on our team who has the hands, body control, and physicality to go up and get them. Marcus Davis, for example, had terrible hands, but was able to screen defensive backs away from the ball using his size. Demetri Knowles has decent hands, but can't out-position a DB. Hopefully between next years class of WRs of Javon Harrison / Cam Phillips / Kendrick Lamar perhaps, in addition to Deon Newsome / Byrn / Meyer / Knowles / Carlis Parker, we can find some more down field threats.
Kendrick Lamar plays ball? Man, he can do it all...
At 5'6", I'm not sure he's got the height to star as a down-field WR threat. But, if he's got game, you never know.
Kline is the real deal man...that kid is going places. Already has made big catches in every game and man what an effort on that block when Logan scooted for 25 yards
Completely Agree. I am surprised that people aren't more hyped about this kid. I think he will be the big steal from this last class. No one figured him to be much when we picked him up. He has all of the tools. Add in Malleck and we will be looking good at TE for the immediate future.
Don't forget my man, Bucky.
#ALLOFTHETIGHTENDSOFFENSE