Profiles for the upcoming draft have been posted. Currently, the only Tech players listed are Tremaine, Brandon, Drew, Greg, Cam, and Wyatt. Tremaine leads the way with the third best grade in the entire draft class, with Greg and Brandon both earning very respectable grades.
EDIT: Link now includes draft profiles for Settle and Terrell. For those who are anxious about Tim, he's projected as a 1-2 rounder and graded as the 4th best DT and 5th best defensive lineman.
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Cam getting stuck with a 5 is pretty questionable.
I wonder how much of that owes to the fact that he's coming off surgery and might not be a lock to make a roster if he isn't 100% in the offseason/preseason and couldn't contribute on special teams right away
EDIT: silly me didn't even realize there were links to actual analysis rather than just a graded out score
They really hammered him on versatility, catch radius, and winning 50/50s
Uhhh, are these guys draft scouts or meat butchers?
Lance really liked checking out our players bodies.
Greg:
Skinny frame with bone thin legs
Wyatt:
Built like a block of granite with a well-proportioned, muscular frame
Not huge, not a burner- quick but not elite top end speed. He is a slot guy exclusively which hurts him. Ford was a better college player and got drafted in the 7th round.
Surprised Wyatt isn't a little higher, but then again I don't really know the inner workings of these things.
I read Wyatt's profile and most of his downside was that he seems to lack aggression and effort in 2017 compared to 2016. Sounds like if this was based on his 2016 film then he would've been ranked higher. I'm betting he has a much higher ceiling than his grade because of this.
I am not sure the grades fully reflect the Senior Bowl observations. Also, and it is the elephant in the room, Teller's history with being benched and the ADHD issues could hurt his grade. While PFF loved Teller with their grading this year, I thought what he gained in consistency he lost in dominance so this review is a fair assessment of his 2017 season in my opinion.
I hope he figures it out. In my opinion, he is the second best guard in the draft behind the Notre Dame kid, who is a little more mobile in a zone blocking scheme. Wyatt is better pulling and power blocking.
As I was reading his profile and saw that they didn't think he had the same aggression as previously, I just kept thinking back to you criticizing our blocking scheme under Vice and how it's too passive. How we're making a mean, run-you-over blocker like Teller and making him approach the second level without much aggression. I really hope our change in scheme didn't effect his draft grade.
But yes, this doesn't reflect much besides college film right now. It's early but I just posted it because it's interesting to see where people stand. Wyatt had a great senior bowl and should be drafted higher than this grade shows.
Matt Millen really liked him.
I feel like the writing about his weaknesses were lazy, especially because the ADHD is something that seems to be known and out there. Maybe they can't talk about his medical history in that way.
Cam should go to the Pats. He'll draw a flag every time a defender touches him.
I'd be shocked if they didn't end up also profiling Tim Settle... the list as a whole seems incomplete as it doesn't include QB Josh Rosen out of UCLA anywhere, which is a total head scratcher for someone in the conversation for #1 overall pick the last year.
Also worth noting... 4 Wahoos on the list: BenKurt (5.1), Blanding (5.2), Brown (5.1), and Kiser (5.3)
Do they adjust these grades after the combine?
Boy they came in strong on the Edmunds comparison with Urlacher. We're talking about an all-time great MLB comparison there.
If he can put it together between the ears when it comes to diagnosing plays he'll be making noise in the league for a long time.
And weird, given that Urlacher was a safety in college and was maybe the best linebacker ever at dropping back into the deep middle in cover 2 while Edmunds had a tendency to get sucked into the line of scrimmage and let receivers get behind him in zone.
It is difficult to find linebackers who can play 3-4 outside, 3-4 inside, or 4-3 outside linebacker who are Tremaine's build. His frame is similar to Ted Hendricks, but I didn't see big Ted play outside of the NFL Films stuff. I don't know of many other tall linebackers that were not purely outside speed rush 3-4 guys. Edmunds is more versatile than those types (like a Bryce Paup.) I don't watch the product now, so I don't know if there are contemporary guys to compare him to. But Urlacher was a pure 4-3 MLB, and Tremaine is completely different.
I definitely agree it was an odd comparison, but certainly a flattering one either way. I would suggest he is more similar to Anthony Barr of the Vikings, physically and athletically.
maybe a better version of telvin smith for the jags (ex nole) who made the probowl this year. dude is long, rangy, and fast as heck sideline to sideline.
Donta Hightower...ish?
I love the quote for Tremaine:
Well shit isn't the rookie contract better in the NBA?
At 6'5" he'd be perfect for Buzz's system
Love that the first thing for Motuapuaka is a phonetical spelling of his name.
Overall the write ups are pretty fair I think. Maybe undersold a few players but what else is new.
My biggest worry is all the hype surrounding Tremaine. If he performs just well at the combine, a step below the freakishness everyone is expecting, it may come across as disappointing even if his raw numbers are still good compared to other LBs. Hopefully he knocks it out of the park but still it makes me nervous. We've been burned before by overhypification (yes that's a word now).
Yessir. Especially in light of the recent NYT article on celebrities buying Twitter followers.
Recent mock by Bucky Brooks (great name) has Tremaine going #9 to Niners
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000910983/article/bucky-brooks-mock...
Somebody help me out with these QB rankings. When I look up stats on these guys, I consistently see Rudolph and Mayfield higher than Rosen and Darnold. Even the advanced stats that account for defense played against have them at the top of lists. Darnold and Rosen are much farther down the list. I'm not going to mention Lamar, because 1) he's a freak of nature, 2) UL generally sucks and he's what they had, and 3) Heisman.
Why all the love for Darnold and Rosen, when they haven't been as successful as the others?
Because "Stats are for losers"
Buzz wants a word.
NFL talent evaluation is largely based on projection at the next level rather than production at the past level. Stats can be deceiving and largely be a product of scheme or transcendent supporting cast. So a lot of the pre-draft process is sussing that kind of stuff out and determining how someone fits with your team and coaching staff rather than their previous
Shouldn't the ratings be based on actual performance and talent, not necessarily how they project onto a team at the next level? Does anyone seriously think that Sam Darnold can go to Cleveland at #1 and change the fortunes of that franchise? Considering the talent he's had around him at USCw, he's pretty much underperformed throughout his college career.
Color me skeptical about his future on the next level.
People like him because of his incredible arm and ability to make some truly incredible throws, and his ability to scramble around and improvise so insane clutch completions. I caught the end of a few USCw games last year, and while he may have thrown 2 picks earlier in the game, I saw him make some of the most incredible throws on must score drives late in games. They are seeing the possibility and tools of an Aaron Rodgers type player and someone will take a chance on that.
Darnold's only knock is his arm strength isn't as good as others. Allen has the strongest arm ever recorded, Rosen has a stronger arm then Darnold. Darnold, just has the it factor in the clutch and the escapability which is huge this day and age.
Druckenmiller and Vick might argue that arm strength claim. They could both flick the ball and it would go 40 yards. Winding up meant the ball was going long!
That is the kicker. They clocked him at 66mph. Logan Thomas held the previously record at 60mph.
Their kicker is the quarterback too?
I had no idea Logan Thomas was the person they clocked at 60 mph. The real kicker is that they were both inaccurate in passing the ball.
But he ain't beat the Hokies, Paaauuuulllllll!!!!!/s
Not arguing specifics about Darnold, but just in general... if you're in an NFL front office and you're part of the draft process, it's incredibly shortsighted and foolish not to think about how a player's career might go, especially given that their future performance inherently reflects on how successful you are at your job. Sometimes those franchise cornerstone-type players are obvious (Andrew Luck) and sometimes they aren't (Tom Brady). Sometimes your looks-the-part-with-all-the-stats-to-boot is Peyton Manning, sometimes it's Ryan Leaf. Look at the mixed track record of success for Heisman winners in the NFL, particularly at QB.... Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston, Johnny Manziel, RGIII, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Troy Smith, Matt Leinart, Jason White, Carson Palmer, Chris Weinke going back to 2000.
like I said... draft isn't about who was the best at the college level, but rather who will most likely perform best at the pro level. Tremaine was born in 1998. There's a metric frick ton of projection that goes into evaluating 19-22 year olds for a potential 10+ year career.
Because that's how talent evaluation works. Its a combo of production, scheme fit and physical projection. Same things true of college recruiting. The best high school players don't always get offers
The over-simplified answer is that modern college offenses can let a quarterback rely on misdirection, a consistent qb run threat, and a spread out field so that they only ever have to make easy throws on simple reads. NFL defenses in general are smarter (so misdirection is less effective) and faster (so spreading a defense out has less of an effect). This means quarterbacks have to be able to do things in the pros that aren't asked of college quarterbacks. A good example that's brought up a lot is consistently hitting the 15 yard out. You need outstanding arm strength and anticipation to do that and most college qbs can't. There's also the mental transition, that pro qbs have to make post-snap reads while most college qbs rely purely on pre-snap reads. College scouts tend to focus more on whether or not quarterbacks can do specific things than on pure productivity.
And on top of all that, NFL coaches are notoriously resistant to change, so they tend to overrate players who are used to playing in NFL type systems instead of molding their system to the talent on hand (although things are changing on that front).
This is exactly right. Stats alone have never been more misleading than they are now in the age of simplified offenses. Though players from these systems can still shine when given a chance. Deshaun Watson was accurately criticized for 1) having a weaker arm and 2) throwing lots of picks as a result of a reliance on pre-snap reads and predetermined throws. But, it was obvious he had accuracy and the it-factor needed to be a great player. They simplified the Texans offense and installed a bunch of Clemson's plays and he was able to get off to a hot start in the NFL. Time will tell how well he learns to adjust more to the NFL game overall, and once teams have more film on him and the Texan's installs, but he like Mariota, came from one read/half field/pre snap read systems and have adjusted pretty smoothly to an NFL style offense.
I appreciate the thoughts from all. It seems that teams spend a ton of money on QBs to change the franchise and many times they are mediocre at best, hence my comments on Darnold. Not saying he will be great or a flop, but QB seems to be one of the hardest positions to project on the next level. That's why I asked about stats and how they play into the evaluation.
Thanks all!
Unfortunately I think Cam Phillips is gonna wind up UDFA if anything at all. He doesn't seem like the type of guy who's going to blow up the combine and otherwise has zero buzz or recognition for his regular season or senior bowl invite.
Isaiah Ford has him beat at just about everything and wound up barely getting drafted. And you could say that was because of injury but Cam doesn't even have health on his side right now. Would love to be wrong.
What was Ford's pre-draft injury again? Was it the knee or an ankle?
When it comes to guys who need speed, it seems like nothing scares NFL front offices more than knees and ankles.
Knee i believe. He went on season-long IR after undergoing a knee procedure, but the Dolphins didn't make it clear whether it was a pre-draft injury or if it was suffered during camp etc.
Yeah, I thought it was a knee but wasn't certain if the Dolphins IR'ed him for that or for something else.
That said, this is why I don't equate Cam's injury status to Ford's last year. The fact that he played nearly a full season with a sports hernia leads me to believe that he won't raise as many red flags on draft day having had time to recover.
I've always thought Phillips would have the best pro career of him, Hodges & Ford.
Still do.
No Terrell Edmunds or Tim Settle?
There's a lot of notable players missing at the moment, I assume they are not finished.
Updated link in OP with more draft profiles.
In looking at all ACC draft-eligible players, we have 2 of the 5 who graded out above a 6.0 in Settle and Tremaine. The others were Bradley Chubb, who received the same grade as Tremaine at 7.2 and is a projected top 10 pick, Derwin James, and Harold Landry.
Surprised at Lamar Jackson and Deon Cain both getting a 6.0.
Also, I just looked through all of the Power 5 and most of the G5 conferences, and only found about 4 or 5 other players rated above a 7.0. So basically Tremaine is rated as a top 10 player by this metric.
You can sort by grade too- they have Tremaine as tied for third and Settle as a top 20-25 player (he's tied with several others).