The story: Virginia Tech adds Middle Tennessee as replacement for Michigan football series in 2020, '21 https://t.co/yYuNm97RCO #Hokies pic.twitter.com/ysVwZ10yyk— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) June 11, 2018
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Ugh
My current reaction:
via GIPHY
I guess it's better then the alternative of home and away games with ECU in 2020 and 2021
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
All I can say is FUCK MICHIGAN.
Oh, I had forgotten about that debacle... :(
As long as we don't pull a Georgia Tech with MTSU.
Whit had a tough job to find a partner here so late in the game. Considering Teel's tweet on the financials below and the fact that we got paid by Michigan cause they scurred, I think Whit did fine.
I'm sure there is a GREAT reason, but why do they get twice as much to play in Lane as we get to play in their bush league stadium? I'm sure there is a great reason?
Because Power-5 teams pay out to non-power-5 teams to beat them as warm-up games. Most games pay out more than that if I remember some of the numbers I have seen in the past.
So then schedule an actual warm up game - AT HOME.. not some home and home with a team that's actually pretty good, that you will get zero credit for beating. this is a joke.
Most of these games are a substantial loss of money, with the Michigan payout we actually bank over 100k to the program. I don't think 1 away game is gonna throw the season. If they are actually pretty good then we get a better test. I don't think that we had a ton of options considered most teams are scheduled through the next like 7-10 years already
thats the thing is that we have 7 home games for that season already
8 home games never stopped PSU, Michigan, Bama, etc.
it was probably a condition of getting a home and home with them on such short notice. Opponents are worked out decades ahead of times.
Throwing a flag here. Find me teams that have played EIGHT home games in a normal year at their HOME stadium. Not home at a neutral site or Teams moving game for weather etc.
UVA did in 2013. But they usually always have seven home games.
FWIW I agree with everything you're saying here Fireman but it has been done.
But not PSU, Bama Or Michigian right? /ss
Lol not sure, I just recall UVA always having a ton of home games.
NC State in 2013.
LSU in 2012.
That was a quick glance.
One-off non-conference home games regularly cost around one million. Netting a cost of $250,000 is a great deal.
Additionally, football schedules are regularly scheduled 8-10 years in advance. So finding a team with openings in 2020 and 2021 was difficult.
Its one series and not really that big of a deal.
How much did Michigan pay us to back out? If it is more than 250K then we make money.
edit: Michigan payed 375K to back out, so we net 125K.
Yeah we're literally paying them for a home and home
Then it should be a 2 or even 3 for 1 sometime in the future. A straight up home and home while getting half what they're taking from us is absurd.
Our next empty spot on the schedule is in 2029. That's a long time to leave a series hanging, especially in this day and age, where you don't know what circumstances either team will be playing in by that point.
Until PSU backs out from our hilariously low buyout.....
Might have something to do with size of stadium or average attendance. Basically, MTSU probably wouldn't make nearly as much money for their home game.
Still doesn't sound fair. Maybe if we made a 2-for-1 at the same rates it might make more sense.
MTSU has most of the leverage in this situation just by having the openings to play these games. We're trying to fill two games in seasons that are two and three years away in a world where schedules are decided ten or more years in advance. The alternative would have been to play them at home twice and pay them even more, or play a different G5 team at home and still pay even more.
You're right, but it's just way easier for everyone here to bitch and moan about something it despite us being extremely limited on choices. All these people that thought we would find another Michigan need a reality check.
I guess ODU and ECU's schedule's were full.
That, or there's some obscure rule against playing the same team twice during the regular season.
There isn't. A team in last theee years did it if I recall and Liberty is doing it coming up.
It was more of /s
Me
Who?
We're playing at MTSU? Is this an effing joke?
Not as funny as playing AT ODU 10 times, no...
I wish. Fuck this so much.
I get UMich left a home and away game slots on the schedule, but a home and home with MTSU is ridiculous. There is ZERO reason we should be playing there, getting 1 game back.
Is there a good emoji out there that represents a wet fart? Because that's this smells like to me. No disrespect to Whit, he did the best he could. The situation just sucks.
Here you go. No emoji, but gif instead.
http://www.brinkleys.org/users/tsl/Files/Wet_2860fd_1856401.gif
Link NSFW gifs. I thought this was common knowledge now.
Sorry. Didn't see anything NSFW in there, but I linked it anyways.
Where the hell do you work?
You serious clark?
College roommate and I attended UVA @ MTSU in '07. He was a UVA fan and we were living in Memphis, so this was the closest we could realistically go for a day trip. UVA needed a FG in the waning seconds to eek out a 23-21 victory. All the UVA fans in attendance fully expected to roll to a 60-0 beat down. Almost everyone was pissed afterwards, even though they won.
Humorous to watch to say the least.
Thanks, Michigan, you fucking asshats!
Is this the part where we have to remind everyone that something in the 2020-2021 schedule was going to have to get pushed out, and that we made Michigan blink, so we came out ahead?
We came out ahead? how? best case we have an all time team in 2020/2021 and get left out of the playoff because of our "non conference" schedule. Worst case is that we go on the road and get beat by these chumps. this whole thing reeks.
We didn't have to pay Michigan for cancelling the games. Michigan paid.
And I don't think we have to worry about non-conference SOS in those years. We have PSU in 2020, and then ND and WVU in 2021.
Michigan probaly paid because THEY cancelled. That's how those things work. I don't chalk that up as some "victory" for Whit.
I'm not saying it's any sort of victory for Whit. Just that he waited longer to try to cancel or move the series than Michigan did. Either way, we weren't going to be playing Michigan in 2020-2021. In this scenario, we made money off of the deal.
There's a mathematical equation used to determine the party at fault
I agree with bluehokie2006 about our non-conference schedule being fine in those years. In fact if we still had Michigan it would have been brutal in 2021 with ND, WVU, and UM - that would likely be toughest non-conference slate in the country. ND, WV, MTSU, and Richmond is a very respectable non-conference slate.
I would rather watch us play a top flight program. Why even have a team if we play MTSU
I challenge any of you to have a hotter take than this.
This is all a result of Coach Beamer red-shirting Michael Vick. That guy needs to be fired.
We just lost millions in revenue and maybe more in exposure.
Wait what? Why?
Think he's talking about losing Michigan
How would that one game have made millions more than any other home game?
What? Actually... best case, we have an all-time team in 2020/2021 and play in the CFP because we went 12-0 in the ACC with non-conference wins over Penn State (2020) or WVU and Notre Dame (2021) and then won the ACC Championship.
Fuck Michigan but let's be realistic.
Scared ass sissies
Gross.
Nothing says to a recruit "Come play at VT" like getting to play AT the college football meccas of ECU, MTSU, ODU, and Liberty in a 4-year college career!
And somehow EVERY other P5 team avoids playing on G5 campuses unless its an anomaly. VT does it on a regular basis.
Edit... Nevermind talking with this guy is a waste of time.
Every other? So all those teams someone found below are....
*Fart noise.
At least we're saving on travel costs?
I'd love to see what the AD savants on here would have filled the game slots with. Find teams with openings in those years that cost only 250k to play.
Whit should have locked down Bama for this tbh. Total failure on his part.
No pass this time?
The honeymoon is over.
😉
A ton of "room" between Bama and playing AT MTSU.. a ton.
If you're so certain that there are P5 teams that would line up to play us on short notice then show me the schedule openings instead of being Mad Online.
I'm so certain that VT plays more road games on g5 campuses than any other P5 team, though. That's my point. Pay someone to come to Lane twice like everyone else does.
In the next 5 seasons:
Miami will play @Toledo, @FIU, and @Temple.
Cal will play @North Texas and @San Jose State.
Maryland will play @Bowling Green, @Temple, and @Charlotte
UCLA will play @Cincinnati and @San Diego State twice.
And that's just what I found in a couple of minutes of pulling names out of hats.
My quick search reveals that VT plays at ECU every other year for 25 years. And at ODU multiple times and at Liberty, etc. We do it more than anyone. It's annoying, especially since we actually lose to ECU at times.
You should try a different search engine because the ECU series ends in 7 years.
If you remove the ECU contract, which isn't Whit's fault, you'll see that we're scheduling away games with G5 teams at a rate that isn't outrageous compared with non blueblood P5 teams.
I'm kind of sick of people bringing up the ODU series. There are some of us that are from or live in Norfolk/757 that are pretty excited about it. I'm sure secondary market tickets will be ridiculously priced, but I'd almost expect a pretty pro-VT crowd there.
Just because there are a lot of VT fans there and some excitement doesn't mean that people cannot have a valid gripe about playing out there so much throughout the course of that series. I'm okay with us playing there once, maybe twice. But four times over the next decade is not a good thing, IMO, and in the opinion of many others as well. Regardless, it is what it is, and I just hope we don't ever drop one of those, because it will NOT be a good thing for the program in the face of that area.
It's called a recruiting tool. The kids are not watching on ESPNWatch or Plus or whatever the ACC shows games on. But if we are in their backyard, they can make it to the game and see it first person. And know they will be able to play in front of family and friends occasionally instead of them having to go to Boston, or Syracuse, or Atlanta to see them in person.
If you're from the 757 why would you travel to Boston, Syracuse, or Atlanta for an away game instead of just driving 5 hours to Blacksburg?
Yeah, those ODU fans didn't have a problem turning out here last year.
You wouldn't. That's the point!
We are going to them!
So... to be clear... you don't like this MTSU move then?
Got it.
Not as much as you think. It's only 251 miles.
(They're actually closer than we are)
Exactly.
Lots of armchair ADs weighing in here. The best case scenario was a neutral site game against a mid-tier P5 team, but that doesn't really excite the fanbase any more than MTSU.
And would have only filled 1 year at best.
Yes, yes it most certainly would have. Would also have excited players who are about to commit to play for these seasons.
just throwing my 2 cents in, I don't think future schedules are a major selling point to recruits. Every team plays cupcakes each year. At least our coach didn't come out and say that he wants to play the worst P5 team every year.
Yea got to agree with Lawd on the fact that any P5 game would be better than MTSU. That said, I doubt you can find a single P5 team that has an opening on the right weekend only a couple years out. Whit did the best he could.
Then play in Lane twice
No team is going to agree to that without a massive payout, which Tech doesn't have, nice story though.
What is MTSU garnering on the open market? Let's hear the numbers before we say 'no team would ever sign up to play two away games.' Seems pretty baseless without quantifying.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/374926001
ONE POINT SIX MILLION for a SINGLE game.
So honestly, what do you think would yield VT the most money?
A) Taking $250k from MTSU to travel and play there?
B) Paying them to play at Lane?
Apparently they're getting home-and-homes with solid ACC programs along with a check for $250k
Ahh yes. Mr Tech doesn't have any money.
We bring in nothing for home games? 66k @ $30 per seat is almost $2M. You don't think we could pay $300-400k for them to play in Lane? Do you legitimately think we couldn't come out more ahead than a game we're getting $250k for that we have to travel to? Since when to home games yield $100k profit?
How does every other major program seem to avoid having this happen?
No Tech couldn't have paid them 300,000. They are making ONE point SIX MILLION around play a single away game at a P5 conference. I really don't think you have a grasp on what it cost to schedule a non conference home game these days.
You're crazy if you think they're getting 1.6 across the board for every school they play at with no home return.
And besides, anything we'd pay them to the point where we're walking with ~$200k is still us coming out better than playing there.
You've passed this being a money thing and are just going full hog at trying to defend all things VT.
Find another amount then if your so certain.
I don't know why you won't answer the simple question if it's just about making money sense. What would yield us more at the end of the day?
Playing there for $250k less travel, or
Paying them to play in Lane
If it is all about money like you say, wouldn't the one that yields more be the obvious call? How many home games do we walk from less than $200k in the black?
I'm quite certain Whit can do basic math. On top of the math, there has to be a willingness from the opponent. This is a fine deal, chill out.
On top of it, MTSU needs home games. They currently have four home games scheduled for 2020, all conference games. We, meanwhile, have SEVEN games scheduled at home in 2020.
There was no way this was going to be anything but a home-and-home series no matter who we scheduled. With that said, would you rather it have been MTSU or would you have rather it been someone like Idaho, Louisiana-Lafayette or Arkansas State?
Do the prospective opponents have any say in the matter?
No, in their world of make belief AD they get to decide everyone else's schedules and payment demands.
Couldn't we have scheduled the worst P5 team in the Nation for a second game?
They're already on our schedule, thanksgiving weekend.
EDIT: missed the second game part
That's why he said second game.
Just look as this as a chance to go to Nashville.
and if you dont like the opponent just know that bitching isn't going to change anything.
The fan base voicing its opinion is pretty important
sure for games planned a decade or two out. But when a team cancels on us 2 years before the scheduled start date changes everything. At that point we just need to trust we get a decent team close to us.
As a Nashville resident, I'm just happy to have one easy VT game to attend! Fully realize I'm in the minority here.
Apparently, people even downvoted the trip comment. I would love to make it out there for a visit and game.
Michigan just paid Arkansas State 1.8 MILLION for a game at Michigan.
This is no place for contradicting the narrative.
and half of 375k is 187.5k so total for that game is a smidge under 2 mil.
So a similar level of competition then amirite?
That's a Real Game there !! Recruiting Jewel for sure..
I also heard #54 said he was excited about seeing MTSU on the schedule.
Man I miss #54 shooting through gaps to make tackles in the backfield and driving through the runners. At least he is with the Jacksonville Jaguars now.
How do you choose what gets capitalized
All words starting with "R" plus each next word
At UNC they'd just say capitalize all R's and J's.
CAP LOCK.. Dummy..or is Dummie...
Yeah how dum of me I should've known you were using CAP LOCK on the first letter of those four random words
I'm not gonna lie you about made me just die laughing, cause I see people type like this every day like they don't know the shift key exists.
Caps lock... on only four letters of four specific words and not the entire post.
If you expect me to believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.
It's called "selective caps lock". Not all computers have it.
It is easier to read than all caps though.
oh wow jack crow is back with his expert analysis! what a treat! hi jack!
Thanks, Liberty. Couldn't have done it without you guys...
Actually, this is a really good point to everyone saying Whit could and should have gotten us two home games. MTSU not only had to agree to the deal we got, they also had to move around another game on their schedule. Even MTSU did not have the dates available that we needed. I'm guessing MTSU's price to play two aways at Lane, AND go through the pain of moving another game was more than their typical rate.
We weren't getting two in Lane. They only had five home games in 2020 without us, we already had seven that same year.
I'm fairly confident that Whit gives 100% in trying to get us the best games scheduled. So, if this is what we ended up with, then this is the best we could have scheduled.
We love Whit when he's hiring coaches. He's good at that and we trust him to handle it. But when it comes to the almost impossible task of replacing two non-conference games 2-3 years away, I wish he'd let us message board users be a little more involved in the decision-making process.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he doesn't need our advice.
What good is TKP of these highly trained and experienced athletic leaders can't log on and look for advice from a bunch of passionate fans that have absolutely no idea what they are talking about?
Good lord some of you guys are never happy are you?
You want us to be excited about playing at MTSU?
This Homecoming crowd isn't exciting to you!?!? /s
More chances for Hokie fans to get seats then.
Yeah, for those going I'd say you're pretty safe to go ahead and book your hotel room.
Better than playing at ODU where there aren't nearly enough tickets to go around.
That stadium better be straight maroon
MTSU's stadium should look similar to some of the games at Duke in terms of Hokie fan attendance. Old Dominion's stadium won't just because tickets won't be so easy to come by.
Excited? No.
Realistic? Yes.
It's possible to simultaneously understand the constraints that were placed on Whit and also be bummed that we're playing a less than exciting series and one of the legs is away to add to it.
Yeah it's fine to be bummed but there are people in here thinking we were going to find another powerhouse to play and blaming Whit for not being able to find one.
Anyone who thought we were going to schedule a home and home against a top-tier opponent when we're already playing ND and WVU in 2021 is smoking something, and it's not meats.
Where did I ever say that? Good god.
lol your statement I replied to implied we weee supposed to be happy about it.
I'm not thrilled about the announcement but the fact that some people have turned in to little rage machines over it is ridiculous.
We already had our resident rage machines, this just turned them on.
It's a fairly small-time move, which is annoying, but acting like we have no other choice and it's all we 'can afford' is not only false, but spreads a terrible message and does nothing but try to stymie any actual football expectations.
So it's the mindset that frustrates me most, not this game in particular.
There is no doubt in my mind that this was the best choice in front of Whit on such a short notice.
Jesus fucking Christ. Find a team with openings in those years and find out their cost to play two games at Lane. Then donate that amount to cover that cost and I'm sure Whit would be happy to schedule them. You do know these other teams have a say on where and when and for how much they play games for right?
I could afford a Tesla. However, purchasing one would be a quite fiscally irresponsible given my other financial obligations.
This match up is less than ideal, but it fills the schedule, gets us some exposure in a neighboring state, and we finish off on top financially, despite the fact that we had to move an already scheduled game. Maybe we could have afforded more, but I'd rather put an extra $100k towards our recruiting budget than paying for a slightly better opponent.
That's not really the point though. We'd still come out ahead if we'd just paid them to play in Lane again. My frustration was the fact that the money issue was even cited when that whole argument isn't even accurate.
I mean besides Whit SAYING cost was a factor it wasn't a factor or anything.
If you don't bother to fill out the profile picture or about me section of your profile you are starting off being taken less seriously. Then you come here with this BS and you have lost it all.
we should change your name to Hokie Detective with the amount of investigating you are doing
How much does VT pay in overhead to put on a game in Lane? And can all of those supporting players (security, cops, bands, cheerleaders, etc) handle an 8th game in a year?
Do you think we only profit 200k from hosting games at Lane?
Since apparently you know how much profit we make from each home game, please enlighten us.
In 2016, our football program brought in roughly $80.2M in revenue, and had $77.6 million in expenses. That's a net 'profit' of $2.6M, or $433k/game in a season where he had 6 home games.
So the next question - assuming that this profit is not already committed to something else, do you really want this money going towards filling an upcoming schedule gap with a team that's willing to play at Lane? You don't think this would be better spend on facility upgrades, adding staff, or covering coaching travel for scouting/recruiting?
Well you forgot to factor in the revenue that home game would add. For instance if the ticket face value was $80 that's roughly $5.2 mil in additional revenue. Obviously not all profit, but the game would pay for the opponent and then some. So, yes.
With variable ticket pricing the MTSU game would likely be in the $20 range. Considering MTSU has fetched $1.6 million for away games in the past, I am seeing a huge loss of the average $433k profit of a home game.
VT has never, and is not even close to paying any opponent $1.6 mil for a game. Teams play at Michigan and at Alabama for much more than they play at Lane for. Comparing what we pay to one outliar that Michigan is covering is disengenuious.
If MTSU would ask VT for $1.6 mil, how in the world would we play anyone, at home without a return trip? Even at that price however, VT would still come out ahead with a home game.
Delaware an FCS team was paid 425,000 a few years ago. But you think an FBS school with no return game is going to cost less? Sure.
It's not just about the money, that's just a starting point. More that there are a lot of people who have to work during the games, and asking them to do it an 8th time a season might be a bit much.
I remember back in 2004 as a member of the band when we had a 6 week stretch with 5 home games. That was a lot to get a new show each week, and it also meant that we had four straight weekends with only one free day.
I like the 2021 lineup of Richmond, MTSU, at WV, and ND if just for the reason of no ECU and no ODU.
ECU is on our schedule every year until 2026 with the exception 2021 . ODU is on our schedule every year for the foreseeable future with the exception of 2020 and 2021.
Here's a link that talks about some games/payouts in 2017.
Good info.
So weighted in terms of programs with similar revenue (clearly we wouldn't be paying what Michigan, Alabama, or Texas pay), it looks like we'd be on the hook for anywhere from $350-$600k. Still would be better to take that extra home game instead of playing there, financially speaking.
You really don't get it do you?
Instantly popped in my head....
via GIPHY
Leg for you. That scene will never not make me laugh.
If we were to play them at home in 2020, then we would have 8 home games. They aren't gonna let us do that.
This was already scheduled as a home and home before Michigan bailed. One of the years has to be an away game no matter who they booked.
Let's look at what other Conference USA teams on that list got - KSU paid UNC Charlotte $850k and Wiscy paid FAU $1.2M. I think it's reasonable to say VT is a similar program to KSU, and Charlotte is a similar program to MTSU. We're paying less than half that for MTSU to come to Lane, and getting paid to go on the road.
I don't know what you were hoping for financially or schedule wise. This isn't an enormous success, but it's far from a failure. We have a couple games that are duds every year, that's just the way it goes. Whit overall has done a good job of scheduling - even if I can't change your mind on this matter, I think we give Whit a mulligan here. Personally, if I have any scheduling complaints, it's that we are acknowledging (much less scheduling) an institution as corrupt as Liberty University.
But you can't take all of those games at the listed value, some of those games could be reciprocated home and home which pay less than away only games.
I know we were hoping for a better opponent, but none of us should be surprised.
I mean, I only pointed out four weeks ago that we weren't getting a P5 opponent of any kind and were likely getting a mid-tier (at best) Go5 opponent.
Yep. This late in the game, anyone that seriously thought we were getting a P5 opponent was lying to themselves.
Upgrade!
While I'd rather have seen VT play Michigan, we're still playing Penn State and Louisville in 2020, and Notre Dame and West Virginia in 2021, so those schedules are still decent when combined with the in-division matches.
how do you give credit for playing Louisville? They're in our non-divisional ACC rotation.. or are you only speaking to total SOS?
Think he's pointing to total SoS though with Petrino and Louisville they could be a dumpster fire in two years.
Yeah, they're not trending upward in the post-Lamar Jackson era, so not sure this will end up helping much, but we'll see.
"We have a pretty reasonable fan base at Virginia Tech compared to a lot of the big football programs" is something I once said unironically many years ago.
You really should make this your signature. It's perfect.
Remember that time Whit Babcock was a National AD of The Year Award Winner? I do!
If you can do Whit's job better than him, then go take his job. Otherwise I'm going to assume he did everything he could to get us the best opponent at the best price. It's not his fault Michigan bailed, and nobody on here has any idea what went on behind the scenes. Good lord... the fact that Whit and Fuente need to be defended this off season is mind blowing to me.
This a million times. Get real, people.
F*CK THE LIGHTNING!!!
I am glad we have guys on the boards here who could do a better job of scheduling than Whit. It is refreshing to know that... For real, some of you think this is the end of the world. We were not going to find a good match up given the short notice. We needed opponents and Whit found us one that is extremely cheap. He doesn't have 2 million to throw out at teams like some schools. We have marque Non conference opponents those years already. It is okay.
The only thing I think it's fair to criticize Whit for is the low buyout number to Michigan. Even then, we don't have nearly enough information to really say it falls at his feet. Maybe he argued for higher buyouts and just couldn't get it, but if the buyout was higher, Michigan might still be on the schedule. All I can say is if I'm Whit, next time I make that an emphasis if it wasn't before.
I mean, no matter what some of us may want or think the Michigan or WVU series, one, was going to get moved.
Three power five non-conference teams in one season is untenable by just about everyone's standards. I mean, sure, you win them all and don't have any bad losses in-conference and you're in the conversation for the playoff but the flip side is what happens if you lose multiple of them as well as your team's health going into conference play after that kind of schedule.
Wow, it's like no one read my comments in the "dream opponent" thread for 20 and 21 where I specifically called out , case-by-case, why different opponents were not going to happen and even said MTSU was a likely opponent based on teams that had common open dates with us:
As for Michigan, there was never going to be any way we were going to play Michigan, WVU AND Notre Dame all in 2021. We're being required to play Notre Dame, which means either the WVU OR the Michigan series was going to be moved.
1. 2020 already had seven home games. We weren't going to get an eighth, especially if we have any playoff aspirations.
2. 2021 already had two Power-5 level opponents, so getting a home-and-home against a third power-five team just wasn't going to happen
3. a 2020 neutral site game against a P5 opponent was possible, but how many of us really want to go back to Fed Ex again and the CFA game is already filled up with Georgia vs UVA.
4. Given points 1-3, here was the list of other possible opponents who had open dates in-common with us for 2020 and 2021 for a home-and-home that aren't already on the schedule. Out of this list, YOU tell ME who the best choice is?
SMU
MTSU
UConn (who may be playing Tennessee in 2020-2021 through an unscheduled but agreed upon series, and is playing Clemson already in 2021)
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State
Idaho
Louisiana (formerly Louisiana-Lafayette)
Out of that list, I think we're getting the best possible opponent.
As far as mid and low-tier Power 5 schools and the service academies go that were mentioned:
Illinois: I discovered their schedules were actually full for 2020 and 2021
Navy: likewise
Northwestern: their only 2021 opening was Oct 16, which is usually later than we play non-conference games
Rutgers: already scheduled for 2023-2024. Do you really want to play Rutgers four times in five years?
Air Force: their only open dates in 2020 were the weeks we play Liberty and Penn State
Arkansas: Already playing two P5 teams in 2021, our in-common open date in 2020 is after we play Penn State and they play Notre Dame, based on current scheduling practices they only ever schedule one away non-conference game and already have one in 2021 (the year we needed one).
Because I'm a little frustrated with people atm, when I get home I'm going to go through every non-conference FBS team's official site + Wikipedia + FBS Schedules (including BYU) to get their 2020 and 2021 schedules to show how foolish some of you are to think we were going to get a P5 team of any caliber to replace Michigan.
Space reserved for reply below :P
Can you add in a few payouts for G5 and lower P5 teams to play a home game without a return trip?
If I can find them, sure.
Meant to do this last night, got tied up with a few things and the next thing I knew it was 1 am x.x Sorry for people who were looking forward to this.
I'll try to get some if this done today during slower periods at work though data may be harder to come by due to work filters.
My apologies to anyone who was genuinely waiting on this.
I'll do payouts later, but this is going to be by conference. From where I'm sitting, it's safe to assume any team that's already facing one Power 5 team, especially if it's a mid- or upper-tier P5 team, will NOT be facing a second that season if they have an opening. You can also guarantee that, despite the listed openings, we're not playing any of the following in 2021 given our existing games against Notre Dame and WVU and the fact they already have a P5 opponent listed in their three-game non-conference slate:
Kansas State
Oklahoma
TCU
Texas
Big 12
BAYLOR - information from sportsdaily.dallasnews.com and Wikipedia
2020:
vs. Ole Miss (neutral site game)
vs. Louisiana Tech (2-for-1 deal)
vs. Incarnate Word
2021
@ Louisiana Tech
vs. Texas State (2-for-1)
vs. BYU (home-and-home)
IOWA STATE - information from official athletics site for 2020. 2021 from Wikipedia
2020:
vs. South Dakota
@ Iowa
vs. UNLV
2021:
vs. Northern Iowa
vs. Iowa
@ UNLV
KANSAS - information from official site
2020:
vs. Wagner
@ BC (home-and-home)
vs. Coastal Carolina (2-for-1)
2021:
vs. South Dakota
@ Coastal Carolina
vs. Duke (home-and-home)
KANSAS STATE - information from Wikipedia, may be outdated
2020:
vs. Buffalo
vs. North Dakota
@ Vanderbilt
2021:
vs. Stanford, two openings
OKLAHOMA - information from official site
2020:
vs. Tennessee (home-and-home, return matchup in 2024)
vs. Army
2021:
vs. Tulane
vs. Nebraska (home-and-home)
Opening
OKLAHOMA STATE - information from Wikipedia
2020:
vs. Oregon State (home-and-home)
vs. Tulsa (2-for-1)
vs. Western Illinois
2021:
vs. Tulsa
vs. Rice
@ Boise State (home-and-home, first game this year)
TCU - information from Wikipedia
Only non-conference game listed for either year is a home-and-home vs. California
Texas- information from official site
2020:
vs. USF (2-for-1)
@ LSU (home-and-home)
UTEP
2021
vs. Rice
@ Arkansas
TEXAS TECH - information from Wikipedia
2020:
vs. UTEP (home-and-home)
vs. Arizona (home-and-home)
vs. Wyoming
2021:
vs. Lamar
@ Houston (home-and-home)
Opening
That's one team with an opening in both seasons who's already playing Tennessee and Nebraska those seasons and another four with openings only in 2021, all but one of which are already playing a Power 5 opponent. So that leaves is with 0 possible opponents from the Big 12.
Will do the Big Ten next, excluding the chickens in maize and blue.
B1G WE CAN'T COUNT PAST TEN
This is another conference with only three non-conference games, so same rules apply as the Big 12. The following teams are being excluded because they're already on the schedule between 2020 and 2029 or their bellies match one of their jersey colors:
Penn State, Michigan, Purdue, Michigan, Maryland, Michigan, Rutgers, Michigan, Wisconsin and Michigan.
Oh, did I say Michigan?
Please not I didn't dig too deeply into some of these matchups so some of these may be 2-for-1 or 3-for 1 and I just don't know it.
The following teams have an opening in 2021 only, but are already playing a P5 opponent:
Iowa
INDIANA - information from official site
2020:
vs. Western Kentucky (3-for-1)
vs. Ball State (2-for-1)
@ UConn (home-and-home)
2021
vs. Idaho (home-and-home)
vs. Cincinnati (home-and-home)
@ Western Kentucky
ILLINOIS - information from official site
2020
vs. Florida Atlantic
vs. UConn (home-and-home)
vs. Bowling Green
2021
vs. UTSA
@ lolUVA
vs. Charlotte
IOWA - information from Wikipedia
2020:
vs. Northern Illinois (two-at-home)
vs. Iowa State
vs. Northern Iowa
2021:
@ Iowa State
vs. Colorado State
Opening
MINNESOTA - information from Wikipedia because strangely their site is blocked from work but others aren't
2020:
vs. New Mexico State (3-at-home)
vs. Tennessee Tech
vs. BYU (home-and-home)
2021:
vs. Miami, OH (two-at-home)
@ Colorado (home-and-home)
vs. Bowling Gren
NEBRASKA - information from official site
2020:
vs. Cincinnati (home-and-home)
vs. Central Michigan
vs. South Dakota State
2021:
vs. Northern Illinois
@ Oklahoma (home-and-home)
vs. Buffalo
NORTHWESTERN - information from hailtopurple.com
2020:
vs. Central Michigan
Opening Sept 19 (our game against MTSU) and Oct 10
2021:
@ Duke
Ohio
Opening Oct 16 (home or road, home game vs MTSU on Sept 11)
So out of the entire Big Ten, we're either already scheduled to play them or the only team with two openings is Northwestern who is already playing a P5 team in 2021 while we're already playing two in 2021. That said, I will count this as our first possible matchup that could have happened over MTSU though it would require some schedule adjustments on both teams' parts and travel to Northwestern would have been more expensive, as likely would have been paying them to come to Lane.
(Reserved for SEC)
(Reserved for Pac-12)
Ugh
Not sure why so many are being downvoted for voicing opinions on this topic.
If you can't figure it out, I can't help you. It's not the opinion, it's the delivery of said opinion. Everyone here is open to a friendly discussion or even a little banter... not an "I'm right you are wrong" pissing match when clearly we have no idea how this deal came to fruition.
I think it's safe to say (except for musiccityhokie) we would all like a better match up. That's not what's being downvoted.
For what it's worth, I'd like a better matchup too....like, say.....Michigan. But, circumstances being what they are, i'll enjoy seeing a VT game 30 min down I-24.
It's becoming more of a thing around here... not that I'm a long-timer by any means, I'm still relatively new. But sometimes there are groups of "Whit and Fu can do no wrong" and sometimes there are groups of "Whit and Fu can do no right". Usually if you come in hot against either mentality with otherwise valid criticism, you'll see some leg snatching. meh.
If that's what you saw in this thread, then we have different definitions of valid.
As the biggest "opposing view" here I'll take this on. I don't support everything Whit and Fuente have done and will never for any coach, AD or university official. I don't like the game at Liberty or playing Liberty in any sport as long as their current AD is there, I think the Hokie Club and donation messages could be done a lot better, not happy that Whit doesn't call out ACC NC bias in their tournament selections and venues. But when I see bullshit on here im going to call it out.
And what DCWilson and Outoftowner s posting is straight up
Well, that pile came from a dinosaur . . .
I understand, I wasn't calling anyone out, and I actually tried to word it in a way that conveys that depending on the topic, these groups tend to form. I think most people are coming from a valid point in criticizing playing at MTSU, that's my issue. I'm fine with the opponent, and despite how it may seem, I do absolutely see your point and it has merit, cost is a huge constraint for us. Doesn't make me like it any better. Simply put, I do not think playing in that stadium is a good thing for VT football, but alas, so shall it be, so I hope we hang 50 on em.
I first read this as MSU and I thought we were playing the East Lansing fighting dog/gymnast violators.
At first, I read it as MSU as well, and thought, "Great! Would love to go up against MSU!" Then I read ME's post and remembered what's been going on recently at MSU, and now I'm fine with MTSU.
Not thrilled, but at least it's just 40 minutes away from the house. And it could have been worse, I'd be disappointed with a series with Maryland. I'd be concerned about a series with USF. So there's that.
idk, the ins & outs of these things but it does seem like we could landed a better replacement. It looks like TCU is wide open with just one OOC on their schedule for '19 & '20. And seems like we'd be a financial & SOS improvement for some schools like LSU (Rice & McNeese), UF (So. Ala, Open 9/11 with Samford & FSU for OOC), WSU (Idaho & Portland St), Baylor (Incarnate Word & 9/11 Open with Tx State & BYU for OOC).
But, done is done. I'm more concerned about how this season will go.
The problem is TCU is in the Big 12 so they likely only want one P5 OOC game a season which they already have. No P5 team wants more than 10 P5 games. So that makes it hard to schedule with 3 of the P5 conferences. The SEC largely seems to be able to get away with only 9 P5 games, so it's doubtful LSU and Florida would work. Even if they want to go to 10 they may prefer to play a garbage P5 team over us.
I agree with just about everything you said, sans MD. I want to play MD because I WANT the overall record (which they have), plus they got the last parting shot on us (on our home field, no less) before leaving the ACC. I want muh vengeance. I want that damn overall/total record.
Maryland is tentatively on the schedule in 2026 and 2027 FWIW.
Good. Then we can beat them (BOTH times) & nail that overall record & life will continue as intended.
Plus 2028-2029.
Extending overall record over them.
The last time Florida went out of state for a true road OOC game was in 1991 against Syracuse.
Baylor has only played two out of conference P5 teams since 2009. And the way they are trending, they're not going to be looking to play a team of VT's caliber. They're looking for the bottom feeders of the conferences.
The fundamental problem is that three of the Power 5 conferences already have 9 conference games scheduled. That's the problem that we ran into with Michigan. They only had three non-conference slots, and they didn't want to use two of them on Power 5 teams. The SEC and ACC have stayed at 8 conference games, but then you have the rivals that add a ninth P5 game off the bat, plus the ND deal adding to the ACC schedules.
Overall, non-conference schedules are like a game of musical chairs. And even if the ACC and SEC want to beef up their schedule and get a 10th P5 team, there aren't many P5 teams available, when 36 out of the 65 P5 teams have fewer openings in their schedules, and 13 teams are off the board because they're in conference.