HAIL TO THE REDSKINS
REDSKINS IS A GREAT TEAM NAME
WASHINGTON REDSKINS
I would argue that most of the other Native American mascots are more offensive than the Redskins. The Redskins symbol, at least, is a respectful likeness (I don't want to use that word, really, but it's the first to come to mind). The Cleveland Indians icon is a cartoony caricature, which I think is worse than the Redskins icon, regardless of the name.
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I can't tell if you're serious, and we probably shouldn't get into it here, but if you really think that using a tribe's name (Seminole, Blackhawk, Ute, etc.) is worse than using a derogatory slang/nickname derived from skin color (think equivalents for people of African or Asian decent, and see if you feel that nickname would be appropriate for a football squad), I got nothin' for ya'. I will give you that the Cleveland Indian's mascot symbol is a good bit worse than the Redskins'.
Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the Redskins, or really any particular NFL team. And I understand how tough it would be for a name change to happen (would they still feel like 'your' team, even if nothing else changed?) to a team you grew up with. But the assertion that other Native American based team names are worse seems preposterous to me.
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I would argue that most of the other Native American mascots are more offensive than the Redskins.
I took 'mascot' to mean 'team name' as I read the first time (and even the second time, after reading your response). I suppose you didn't mean that, and I apologize. However, hard to separate the icon/mascot/symbol from the team name. And 'Redskins' just ain't cool. At least to me.
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I hear that. I intentionally separated the mascot/icon/symbol from the name. The Cleveland Indians icon/mascot/symbol reduces a race to a caricature, while the Redskins icon is serious. I'd rather have the serious looking symbol than the cartoon. The Chicago Blackhawks are kind of middling between them, I think it is relatively respectful likeness, but still sort of cartoony and smiling.
Whenever this topic comes up, I'm reminded of an article I read (which I failed to find to reference above) where the use of the name Redskins was popular among schools with a high percentage of Native Americans in their population, a fact that I thought important in the debate. If I find the article, I'll post a link.
EDIT: Here I mean that the high school mascot and team name was actually "Redskins"
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The article was by Rick Reilly on ESPN. Interesting read, although he mainly talks to his father-in-law and extrapolates that to be opinion of an entire people. I thought the most interesting part was how his father-in-law was more offended by the Chiefs than other team names. Basically he says call me what you want, but don't give yourself a title you haven't earned.
Haha, yeah. I cursor-hovered over the tracker button at the top without submitting for a minute. But then just thought, like you said, 'ehh, I'll go for it.' I know the discourse is always super civil around here, even when people disagree, and it's just an opinion I kind of felt like expressing. Much respect for HOAT (and other's) opinions, and glad that things stayed respectful, as usual.
Good call though. Hypocritical disclaimer was hypocritical!
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Bill Murray can say or do anything he wants and there isn't a problem. Hell, he was hitting golf balls at a crowd of Clemson fans an no one was screaming about how utterly dangerous that is. I was disappointed Corso ran out of movies to reference while telling him not-so-fast-Caddyshack.
I don't know if Murray got anything right. All I remember is he picked Florida and Clemson.
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Almost as good as Corso dropping "AW, F**K it" during last years college gameday finale. Is there a better sports job than traveling to the biggest college football game every week?
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Comments
While wearing a Piggly Wiggly shirt. God Bless America.
More evidence of respectful use of native americans as mascots...haha
It's okay because they're not the NFL team in Washington. All other native American themed mascots are exempt.
HAIL TO THE REDSKINS
REDSKINS IS A GREAT TEAM NAME
WASHINGTON REDSKINS
I would argue that most of the other Native American mascots are more offensive than the Redskins. The Redskins symbol, at least, is a respectful likeness (I don't want to use that word, really, but it's the first to come to mind). The Cleveland Indians icon is a cartoony caricature, which I think is worse than the Redskins icon, regardless of the name.
I can't tell if you're serious, and we probably shouldn't get into it here, but if you really think that using a tribe's name (Seminole, Blackhawk, Ute, etc.) is worse than using a derogatory slang/nickname derived from skin color (think equivalents for people of African or Asian decent, and see if you feel that nickname would be appropriate for a football squad), I got nothin' for ya'. I will give you that the Cleveland Indian's mascot symbol is a good bit worse than the Redskins'.
Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the Redskins, or really any particular NFL team. And I understand how tough it would be for a name change to happen (would they still feel like 'your' team, even if nothing else changed?) to a team you grew up with. But the assertion that other Native American based team names are worse seems preposterous to me.
Had you read, you'd notice I don't say a thing about the names of any teams other than the Redskins.
From this:
I took 'mascot' to mean 'team name' as I read the first time (and even the second time, after reading your response). I suppose you didn't mean that, and I apologize. However, hard to separate the icon/mascot/symbol from the team name. And 'Redskins' just ain't cool. At least to me.
I hear that. I intentionally separated the mascot/icon/symbol from the name. The Cleveland Indians icon/mascot/symbol reduces a race to a caricature, while the Redskins icon is serious. I'd rather have the serious looking symbol than the cartoon. The Chicago Blackhawks are kind of middling between them, I think it is relatively respectful likeness, but still sort of cartoony and smiling.
Whenever this topic comes up, I'm reminded of an article I read (which I failed to find to reference above) where the use of the name Redskins was popular among schools with a high percentage of Native Americans in their population, a fact that I thought important in the debate. If I find the article, I'll post a link.
EDIT: Here I mean that the high school mascot and team name was actually "Redskins"
The article was by Rick Reilly on ESPN. Interesting read, although he mainly talks to his father-in-law and extrapolates that to be opinion of an entire people. I thought the most interesting part was how his father-in-law was more offended by the Chiefs than other team names. Basically he says call me what you want, but don't give yourself a title you haven't earned.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-...
Excellent look, SlapSwimRip. Turkey leg upvote like.
yeah but then reilly's father-in-law came out and said he was misquoted and rick fundamentally misunderstood what he was trying to say (imagine).
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/10/blackfeet-elder-say...
Ugh. That definitely changes the complexion of his quotes in the Reilly article. I wonder if the same holds for the high school folks he talked to.
Read: "and we probably shouldn't get into it here. Nevermind, let's do this shit."
Haha, yeah. I cursor-hovered over the tracker button at the top without submitting for a minute. But then just thought, like you said, 'ehh, I'll go for it.' I know the discourse is always super civil around here, even when people disagree, and it's just an opinion I kind of felt like expressing. Much respect for HOAT (and other's) opinions, and glad that things stayed respectful, as usual.
Good call though. Hypocritical disclaimer was hypocritical!
The Seminole Indian Nation has given Florida State permission to use their name as the mascot.
Probably after cashing a big fat check.
Or getting free shoes. That's a thing in Florida, right?
I thought so at first, but couldn't find anything substantial. Just kind of seems they give Scholarships to go to FSU and work closely with the tribe.
Hilarious! You can always count on BFM to do something outrageous!
Im surprised he was sober. I ran into Bill at a charleston river dogs game a few years back and he looked he had been on a week long bender.
+1 for Charleston River Dogs. I do prefer the Stingrays games myself...better weather...and a championship or two helps!
Bill Murray can say or do anything he wants and there isn't a problem. Hell, he was hitting golf balls at a crowd of Clemson fans an no one was screaming about how utterly dangerous that is. I was disappointed Corso ran out of movies to reference while telling him not-so-fast-Caddyshack.
I don't know if Murray got anything right. All I remember is he picked Florida and Clemson.
Almost as good as Corso dropping "AW, F**K it" during last years college gameday finale. Is there a better sports job than traveling to the biggest college football game every week?
Haha ahhh fuck it! I bet that set is a blast on Saturday mornings.