A win would be great and I'd happily take it.
There's plenty on the offensive side of the ball to not be happy about. There's only so much you can pin on the players.
So...
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Changes certainly need to be made.
I am starting to get tired of these kinds of posts.
I can sympathize with your opinion, but you also have the freedom to not read them.
Eh, I am a regular on this site, and I don't have to like a bunch posters with overtly negative attitudes making this site increasingly depressing to engage with
Whelp, until the team changes the results, the narrative & story will remain unchanged. Truth & consequences.
You must be a lurker
So what? Does that mean his opinion doesn't matter? I'm not a lurker and I agree with him.
No but he mentioned that he frequents the site like that matters.
I think he means that he has some understanding of the site.
So it's part of his point.
Double post
Thank you, I think a lot of people feel that way
Yikes...this is some entitled bullshit lol. You literally didn't have to click on this link and comment. This isn't your site. If people want to wallow in despair they can.
Entitled?
I never claimed this to be my site. But it is a community that I have subscribed to for over 6 years, am apart of, enjoy and hope maintains a usable environment.
If you think you can suppress member of this site from having an opinion about the toxic attitudes by a tiny but very vocal subset of this site, the you are the entitled one.
Lol, the classic "no I'm not, you are!"
This isn't your local bar. This is a very large online forum. Being a regular doesn't mean anything.
Also, I have no idea how you think a very tiny minority participate in these threads. This is pretty much reflective of many people's attitudes.
Yeah feel free to post your feelings but hyperbolic negativity will always get a downvote from me (not saying you did anything but just in general).
People come to this site for football analysis, good takes, and good jokes. Not for dramatic "this is way worse than it is" posts. It's a waste of time to scroll through those in order to get to the good stuff.
I'm not seeing how this post was hyperbolic negativity. It was made early but we all knew the writing was on the wall.
I don't like seeing someone siting their "regular" status as if anyone gives a hoot. This isn't Cheers.
Ah the classic, "lets conflate measured criticism and honest disappointment with toxic bitching"....
Why add "I'm a regular" if not to imply it holds any inherent value. You could have just said, "I don't have to like a bunch posters with overtly negative attitudes making this site increasingly depressing to engage with."
Clear it was added for a reason.
Draw whatever conclusion you want. I know my intentions with my post, and my reason for saying what I say.
Any projection you have onto my own intent is little more than a projection of your own insecurity with respect to this topic.
EDIT: Eh, it's not worth it. We are both clearly emotional right now and intentionally trying to upset the other.
Hope all can have a good rest of the night for what it's worth. We're all rooting for the same team. Just getting exhausted by negativity is all
I disagree. Establishing a track record carries weight in any online community.
Dude, it's not any fan's fault that the team is playing worse than shit. It's not the fan's assignment to win the fucking game.
But the fans should stop bitching about the team over and over and over and over
Are you watching this bullshit? Should we really? Really?
Yeah because it ain't gonna make them better so just shut up about it
It couldn't hurt.
Get a blow up doll in take out the tech aggression on it
Lmao, you can't stop or shut up displease fans anymore than you can stop the earth from rotating.
That are y'all fault lower yalls need expectations for god sake
I had very low expectations for this year, it doesn't mean people can't express being disappointed? 🤷🏻♀️ I think the people yelling at others for being upset are in denial at this point.
Adjusting expectations does not remove basic/general expectations. That's part of the deal. In fact, the fan base has ALREADY LOWERED ITS EXPECTATIONS. But there's a threshold. Unfortunately for Fu & Co, they've already divebombed below that. FAILURE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
Lowering expectations doesn't change being upset on game day when your team loses a very winnable game on its own field.....🤔
Off topic here, but I just can't take anyone seriously who types the word "yalls."
It makes me hear everything that comes after in a Foghorn Leghorn voice.
That are y'all fault lower yalls need expectations for god sake
I can't take people seriously who can't put together a comprehensive sentence.
[Mod Edit: Removed.]
Man, step away from the keyboard. The red mist has taken you over. Knowing you as a regular on here, you are seriously better than this.
This man is gonna defend his motherfucking team until he dies
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We tried.
I'm pretty sure they don't need you martyring yourself tonight on an anonymous internet forum. And certainly not doing so in the manner in which you currently are.
I don't give a fuck anymore. Y'all are the Enemies against everything I stand and care for
Somehow I seriously doubt that. Some of us even know that Primus sucks
They're are people here who legitimately hates primus and I got shitting on for defending them
There are also people here who think cheese is disgusting. People have odd tastes, and that's ok. We don't all have to agree all the time, but there is no need to get this childish over those disagreements.
Tell that to the one who waves the white flag with 5 minutes left in the 3rd
Get off your brother's computer and sober up
This guy got into the Giles county Moonshine
I'm on my phone and I'm 20 and hates alcohol so I'm a 1000% sober
And with that I'm done playing peacemaker.
Have a good night folks.
Everyone has a right to vent, to an extent, after the performances our coaches and players have been putting forth lately. We will be lucky to make a bowl the way shit is going. But this subthread has become a toxic shitshow and I'm gonna bow out and take a break. I suggest some of you do the same.
Leg for expressing a principled opposing view.
Making a vent thread when there was a whole quarter left in the game. Y'all are a brunch losers/Bitches. Most of this community is a bunch of dumb/drunk old people who thinks they could better than the players and the coaches but yet here y'all are behind your computer cause y'all are NOTHING
Thank you for enlightening me about myself and most everyone on here.
Your comments have made me seriously consider what I have done and how I plan on doing things in the future.
Just kidding.
I'll post the next one at half time if we're playing that poorly.
See you then!
I know none of y'all are going to change. The people that complain about everything is people who cry when they didn't get a candy when they were 16
via GIPHY
My name is selhini and I gotta make fun of someone who made one grammar mistake hahahaha. Fuck off mate
The grammar mistake was the most coherent part of the post. What are you talking about?
Take a break bro.
No before the odu game I liked a lot of y'all but after that game y'all have turn into whiny entitled assholes I wish I could rewind to the offseason when all of y'all are calm and nice
You know, this is a problem easily solved by closing your browser window...
No I'm not going to leave so y'all negative fucks can take over tkp
Ok, this one doesn't even make any sense.
So you're not negative? You're the most negative "Tech" Fan I ever seen
To my knowledge I've never even met or seen you in person. What metrics are/have you used to base your assertion off of?
Every post in any game thread. The only thing you do is whine and bitch about something
Macgruber can stir the post but I don't think it's fair to say he whines and bitches in every game thread.
I swear I go back to last years post and he bitches about something even when Tech wins
It's definitely fair. And he has a poop fetish. Those are his two most defining tkp qualities. But I'm not downvoting him for either
Okay...
So you hate seeing the posts, but instead of not reading them, you're going to stay and not post anything positive about the teams performance to show us how we're wrong, but instead call us all fucks who didn't get candy at 16.
Am I missing something here?
Y'all can find something positive in this lost but all of y'all just see everything negative
Dude, ain't nothing entitled about wanting your team to win the games that they absolutely should win.
And I've been fairly damned cordial, but you're making it difficult.
They were expected to lose remember?
Not sure this team should've "absolutely won" any of the games this year other than odu. Just saying. We are very very not good this year.
Ok, so maybe I worded that poorly. You're right, GT definitely wasn't a given. But did anyone see even our woefully depleted defense giving up almost 500 yards on the ground? And I'm not saying we should have won tonight, but our defense held their own when we expected them to get trounced. The offense and Corny didn't do their part IMO.
And since you're talking about cordial. I'm cordial in the game thread bit when I try defending my team I get gangbanged by the drunk dickheads
I know this is being downvoted because of "gangbanged" and "drunk dickheads". But if you change those to "yelled at" and "people, it's pretty on the mark.
And a lot of them aren't even regulars on here.
JHalf andoutoftowner I've literally only seen making "sky is falling" takes in gameday threads.Sometimes accuracy hurts. That's the only way I can explain people going downvote crazy over a fairly normal (besides the rudeness) reaction to the dramatic negativity on here
Damn man! I don't see my posts as "sky is falling" at all. Most of my posts are sarcastic, and if you look back through the years I've actually said quite often, "guys relax, it's the second quarter."
The only thing I really post emotionally about is when people have silly leg wars.
Shoot lol, I just read your last like 20 comments and they were all positive/funny. Guess I just caught the wrong one at the wrong time. Sorry my guy, have a leg
No you!
It is really difficult to be offended by someone calling me a loser when that person has such a poor grasp of common grammar. You sound like a West Virginia fan.
Talking shit about your own team all the time. Sounds like a loluva fan
No, actually I'm usually very positive about VT and the growing pains. Feel free to look through my posts over the course of the season. Today, I reached a high bar of frustration with the offense and vented it, along with probably most of Hokie Nation. Rightly so with the recent performance of the offense.
But you go defend the drunk fucks who just shits on everything Tech does OK
No, actually I'm about to rip on someone else for a bullshit post for the second consecutive week.
I'm defending my fucking team for consecutive weeks if the drunk/assholes are gonna come at them you gotta go through me
So you're going to tell the same person as I am to stop posting negative recruiting posts in this very same vent thread then?
Wheres that post at
in this very same vent thread
Top half or bottom half
Not defending him by any means, but this is just throwing gasoline on the fire.
That's what alot of people on here are sounding like lately
Side note: Why the fuck did I come back to this subthread?
Because it's like watching a train wreck or rubber necking on 81 when there's an accident.
I don't miss that drive back to VT after Thanksgiving Break. ALWAYS bad traffic.
That's fine. It appears he wants us to have a rational discussion. To me, that involves communicating in a manner in which he comes across as having his shit together. Ironically, he doesn't want us to talk shit about the football team, but then he goes and talks shit about everyone else on the site...
I have my shit straight. Everybody who thinks Tech is gonna win every game is the fucked up ones
Everybody who thinks Tech is gonna win every game is the fucked up ones
I disagree, I don't think you have fifth-grade grammar mastered.
But hey, you're totally right, everyone on here is an old, dumb and drunk fuck and we should all go pound sand when the offense goes three and out for four straight drives to start the third quarter.
Hopefully next year we see incredible improvement and VT goes 14-0. Go Hokies!
Its not the offense its the coach
Rationality is a difficult thing to find after these games. I don't necessarily think it fair to demand it immediately after a loss. I'm of the mind of letting everyone blow off steam as needed as long as they keep it civil. I guess I'm still in this wormhole out of some need to try to keep it that way. I think TKP serves as a valuable catharsis after losses. I actually think it builds the community knowing that we can come here and get our gripes out, within reason. That within reason part can be a bitch sometimes.
If we don't voice our opinion, do you think there will be change? This football team is a product of the University. If the consumers of the product are happy, which will be assumed if we are quiet, then it will be business as usual. Actually, even when the fan base doubted the Stiney era, we were ignored and we are still dealing with the consequences. If you don't voice your opinion as a fan, you give up the only influence you have on the program when things aren't looking good.
It doesn't look good when y'all become toxic as fuck
Life's a bitch, ain't it
Why? We're the shareholders
I'm tired of these kind of games
I agree with abarri9. I get it, it's a vent thread, but in general I don't like to listen to (or read about) people bitching for the sake of bitching. It's not constructive, and doesn't offer any useful insight. If you want to make an argument that we are under performing, and use stats to back that up, and suggest a way to improve, I'm all ears, and happy to engage.
Ok. I would like to specifically bitch about Fuente's coaching decisions with regards to the declined holding (which luckily worked out for him by inches) and the dumb as hell call on 4th down at near mid field.
Terrible coaching decisions.
TBH, I didn't really dislike either call. Either they had one play to get 8 yards, or two plays to get 13. It's a gamble, but I don't think it was dumb or very high risk. I am looking forward to hearing his explanation for it. I actually like going for it on 4th at midfield. To far to kick, and if we get it, our defense gets a longer rest (which they needed).
Holding is ten yards so it would have been 2nd and 18. Idk why you don't take that. They'd have to get 10 or more yards to get to the 3rd down situation that we just handed them
I didn't get the call
Fuentes best season was with Beamers recruits. We are our own worst enemies every game. So many mental mistakes, its like the players arent coached up on the little things. We left points on the board in the first half. Its been really hard to watch this team this season.
And damn near every Fuente recruit was thrust into the two-deep before they were ready to play because of attrition and injuries. Could be blessing in disguise for this team down the road. If you expect a bunch of Fuente's recruits to be studs the moment they walk on campus, then you are kidding yourself. If this still happens when Fuente's recruits are seniors, then by all means make this case, but until then, blaming results on this because his recruiting classes aren't getting it done as true freshmen and sophomores is a bit ridiculous.
Spot on.
With Beamers recruits and Fuentes QB who willed VT to victory more than a couple times. What we're seeing is that Beamers underclassmen recruits in year one either we're fantastic and playing in the NFL right now or not good and sitting behind Fuentes underclassmen.
Our mental mistakes have been terrible though. Fuente needs to fix that shit.
You're correct but it's ironically funny because we shit on Beamer's last recruiting classes so much when he left.
The four hour stomach ache is now a season-long stomach ache.
Calm down, nancies
Not regretting my decision to sell our tickets this week. 🤷🏻♀️
EDIT: Don't see us getting to a bowl this year, but I really hope I'm wrong. Pittsburg, Miami, And UVA will all be very rough games, and we aren't even talking about a possible game on 12/1.
Well let's find out what happens when you mix cold medicine and Busch Light.
I take cold medicine with water all the time. You should be fine.
It'll be interesting to see how bad the offense would have to get for fuente to fire cornelson. If the season ended today I don't think he'd fire him.
But what if it gets worse? Our remaining games could certainly feature teans that shut us down better than bc or gt
Fuente is going to have to be forced to do so by Babcock.
Cornelsen wasn't even the sole OC at Memphis.
Hell yeah brother, cheers from Hawaii.
Good news: We could drop this game and still win the Coastal.
Bad news: I'm not so sure we are going to beat Pitt or LOLUVA. I think we will beat Miami.
This does not feel like a team capable of beating Pitt on the road.
We barely did that in 2016 when we were actually good
Sad. I'd honestly trade Cornelsen for Lefty.
Better be ironic
Don't you think....
Have been in NYC for the weekend at a wedding and checked in to see how things were going...oof.
Yes, we are very young and lack depth at many spots. However, I'm realizing our coaching staff just isn't very good. We are in this situation because of recruiting misses and poor evaluation. Recruited a few spots well but let a lot completely fall off. No accountability.
Also no player development. Team has gotten worse as the season goes on. Too many execution errors. Why are we still having problems snapping the ball in week 10? Lack of physicality up front on both sides is alarming and won't work long term. Offense is also woefully disappointing with mostly "their guys."
It's getting to the point where being a VT sports fan is better when you just don't watch. Sad, but starting to be true, unfortunately.
0-3 against div 1 teams at home.
Ouch.
I think three seasons is enough to evaluate a coaching staff. They have gotten worse each year. Let's reserve our spot on the upcoming...coaching...carousel!!!
Ooo...which up and comer is burning it up so bad that you want to replace fu with????
Saban...Dabo....
Fedora may be free....gimmie a break
LMAO. So you are saying VT can only hire Saban or Dabo or some other equally elite coach from an elite team? We plucked Fuente from the G5 and he hasn't improved the team at all.
Man replying to this late but the Saban Dabo comment was sarcastic....guess I should've put /s there.
But honestly who do all the people calling for Fuente's head think he should be replaced by that is at least at an equal state of being an up and comer as Fuente was when we hired him???
Nice false rhetoric, but no.
There are plenty of options that do involve replacing Fuente unless he insists his staff does not change.
But let's assume it goes there. There are 255 FBS and FCS teams out there that are not coached by Saban or Dabo. One of those teams has a coach or coaches who are going to move up. Dabo and Saban aren't going to live forever and College Football will not come to end when either (or both) of them retire.
It's this kind of head in the sand thinking that prevents us from making the amazing hires.
Do I think Fuene can be a great HC? I do. That doesn't mean I have to agree with his assessment that Brad Cornelsen is one of the "up and comers". Cornelsen is not. Cornelsen's next job is not going to be at the FCS or FBS level and if Fuente isn't careful neither will his.
This is a high stakes business and ultimately the HC is head accountable. Just look at what happened to Frank Beamer when he wouldn't accept Bryan Stinespring wasn't the answer. By the time Loeffler came on it was too late. At this point, I would say Loffler is the better OC and when he's not he can point to his resume.
The reality is, we are not a program that can be paying two coaches at the same time, one of them not to coach. The first thing anyone serious about wanting Fuente replaced should do is join the Hokie Club.
I will gladly up my donation to cover a buy out. I'm not the only one, either.
Lol wow. You want to fire Fuente already?
Hilarious. You know, because that will solve everything.
No, I want to get rid of Corn, but it doesn't look like CJF has any interest whatsoever in doing that, which could very easily lead to his downfall. If it comes to that point, I have no problem upping my donation in order to keep the program's options open.
And youre a dumbass
I'm getting downvoted for defending Fuente. Nooice
Go fuck yourself "Tech fan"
Lmao the only good outcome there would be that you lost money
What money this man don't got none
I doubt losing most of you're home games and losing to teams VT out recruits is going to make people want to join the Hokie Club. I joined the Hokie Club right after we beat Ohio State in Columbus. I think people tend to join when the team is winning. Thoughts?
Probably 100% true. No matter how any of us want to look at it, the football team is product and contributors are investors. Investors like to put money into investments that have positive returns.
Butch Jones would be interested.
Seriously though, I am sure that some of our fans would cream their britches if we hired Lane Kiffin.
cream their britches
That's a bit extreme isn't it? I'm fairly sure Kiffin is probably a bit of a stretch for what this fan base would tolerate.
Pink-slip Fuente, give Bud the reins. He can't possibly run things any worse, right? RIGHT???
Because the defense is totally carrying this team this year.....
The defense is doing more with less. The offense has no excuse.
Koastal Kings you are party of the reason this site has seen it's better days. I agree it's fine to have differences of opinion but like said earlier, you and a minority of others make a bunch of overreacting statements that lead to unproductive discussion.
We get it, the coaches need to improve their coaching and the young players need to step up. There is no magic pill to success other than to execute better, which doesn't change if we start firing people.
Is that a fact? Because sometimes that's the only way it changes. So I can appreciate that sentiment but immunity from consequences for bad performance isn't going to fix anything either.
No but it sure is a pretty simplistic answer to a lot more complex issue. With a backup qb, no legit RB, and a line that can consistently run block, I would wager that alot of OC's would struggle to get successful outcomes.
Am I frustrated with FuCorn like you all are? Sure. But do we need to "heat up the coaching carousel?". No. Like wythevillian said, if their players still aren't executing in a year or two as upperclassmen, then we know the wrong hires were made.
I would argue we have one the better offensive lines we have in years, a backup QB putting up much better stats than our starter did against acc competition with only five starts, and Stephen people's is averaging 7.5 ypc on the year but gets subbed out for mcclease most of the second half
On the other hand with seniors and juniors at every position almost any OC could succeed.
There will always be excuses in college football. There's always attrition. There's always youth. You know what else happens? Guys get hurt.
These guys get paid pretty well to make sure teams are ready to play. Cornelsen's pay this year? $490K. That's not chump change.
Part of solving any problem is simplifying it. Finding the general solution. Making appropriate adjustment for specific conditions.
Overly complex answers are usually ones that haven't been examined hard enough.
The simplest answer to the problem is that our team has been decimated of talent for a variety of reasons. Many see the simplest answer to be poor coaching. I obviously disagree, as do many others. I will await results next year for a fair judgment.
I disagree but I think we have different approaches to life. Either way I think we have the same goal, which is to see Tech win more football games. Hopefully we can cut down on the mistakes and win 2 of the next 3.
It definitely helps that I couldn't watch the game. Probably saved an argument with the wife. WTF went wrong with the team? My guesses:
1) Couldn't stop BC's rushing attach nor AJ Brown when he decided to scramble to gain a critical down
2) Offense was inconsistent and couldn't score enough points.
Thanks to any that reply.
Defense played great until the end (when they seemed tired). The offense was wildly inconsistent until the 3rd quarter, at which point they were simply non existent.
That pretty much sums it up.
Thanks buddy.
Some questionable play calling on offense went in to this as well. If someone can explain going for it on 4th and 2 on our side of the 50, down by 7, with 10+ minutes to go (and throwing for it) please go ahead and tell me because I don't get it.
Our offensive play calling was horrific in the second half. Willis was 16/19 so we started the first two series by running on first and second down for a combined four yards. After two three and outs they tied the game and we finally tried to throw the ball. Willis hit Hazelton in the chest with the ball and they intercepted it within our own 20. A quick td run later, we were trailing the rest of the game. We also had 4th and 2 on our side of the field down 7 with 13 min left and thought it was a great time to go for it. They immediately scored to put the game out of reach.
For the sake of accuracy we did not run the ball on 1st down on the first drive of the second half. We tried to throw a slant pass (which many people were clamoring for) and it was knocked down by the BC defensive end. The second drive was somewhat questionable but I honestly don't get the heartburn over the first unless you wanted the coaches to come out and call a pass every single play no matter what.
The play calling in the third quarter brought about a bit of frustration for me. We haven't been able to run the ball at all, continued to not be able to run the ball, and then tried to run the ball. Those three or four drives in the third quarter where we went three and out each time were strictly because we kept trying to run and our run game just wasn't effective.
I'm not saying Peoples or McClease we bad, in fact Peoples goes balls to the wall on every dang down, but it just wasn't working.
Not to mention even more injuries on defense, starting with Watts, Burke, and Gaines early in the game — Watts with a broken arm. Burke never returned. Farley had to be helped off the field late in the game after a leg injury that was hopefully not nearly as bad as it looked. And in between there, Floyd took what seemed to be a pretty hard hit to the noggin.
We've usually pretty much learned the roster by now, but at one point, my husband and I sounded like a couple of owls hooting back and forth. "Who? Who?"
At the end of the day I'm glad I have this site. Hokies are driving me to alcoholism this year. I think we need some changes this off season with some coordinators (offense).
OfFeNsIvE gUrU
Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad Fire Brad
Or at least don't let him call plays anymore
He doesn't recruit and our QBs aren't any good, so why exactly should we be keeping him on staff?
It would be awesome to be paid as much as he does to under achieve.
$450K.
I will post this on EVERY postgame vent thread.
Standing above the tunnel at the end of the game. Willis and 4 other players left via the medical golf cart. And another player walked with his arm in a sling, wearing pads but no jersey.
Farley??
Watts I've heard.
Yeah, Watts fractured his forearm pretty early on in the game and had his arm in a sling.
Corny didn't make Willis slide 3 yards short on 4th down...
You're right, but he didn't put the offense in positions to succeed the previous 29 minutes.
What does the team have to gain with Willis putting his head down at that point? He can't possibly take another bad hit in that situation. As much as we all want to see QP, Willis being injured isn't what this team needs, especially when the game is over.
I see what you're saying, but yeah, the right thing to do right then was try to run the other two yards.
Sliding in there was a mistake.
Because our chances to drive 80 yards and recover an onside kick were worth putting our starting qb in position to get drilled
But he called the plays that made it necessary.
I think he thought he had the first down. I dont fault him for that. He took a beating in the 2nd half.
Yeah, but how do you know that?
Before Willis "had the wind knocked out of him," he had thrown for 220+ yards and was 🔥. His next three drives were 3 and out, and he threw for about 60 more yards the entire game. From what I saw, BC was playing the same zone coverage in the second half.
If he wasn't playing hurt, that hit scared the shit out of him for the rest of the game.
I gotta be honest, this is the first game that makes me question whether or not CJF is going to work out here. Some of the decisions he made are absolutely mind-numbing. Going for it on 4th down in our own territory down just one score, declining a holding penalty that would have made it 2nd and 18 instead of 3rd and 8 (that they almost converted), etc. Those things are entirely on the coaches, and can't be blamed on young players.
There is also no excuse for the offense at this point. Literally everybody in the stadium knew we would run a stretch play on 2nd and long over and over. Coming off the sideline with 12 players on the last possession is entirely on the coaches.
These are things that can't be blamed on young players. I mean, the defense was at fault last week and that can be blamed on personnel. But the disorganization the team's displaying at this point in the season can't be.
Devil's advocate: we don't know if declining the holding penalty was Fuente or Bud.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I didn't hate the 4th down call. He saw what we were all seeing - that is our D was getting gassed and he thought BC would start pounding the rock and burning clock. We needed to score.
I thought the worse call was the 2 yard throw on 3rd and 5.
Our D was playing well at that point though. It's wasn't a GT situation where we were jsut getting gashed. MAke them make a 90 yard drive to win it.
I was okay with it too. I know our defense was playing well, but the longer they were on the field in the second half, the more likely BC was to just start steamrolling us.
By going for it, I think Fuente was trying to get some kind of spark in the offense...convert a big play like that, and maybe we start rolling on offense again.
Welcome to 3 games ago. Happy to have you on the team, regardless.
I supported declining the penalty, I figured we had a better chance stopping them on 3rd and 8 instead of allowing a big play between two downs
Yeah, I was sort of 50/50 on that.
It was a bold strategy, but not so bad a call.
In two to three years our defense is gonna be beast and our offense should be as well.
I might tend to agree with your thoughts on offense if I had seen any positive player development and a more disciplined unit over the past two seasons.
Woah. Hold up.
I get being mad as hell at this loss, at the stalled offense, at the worst defense we've seen in Blacksburg since before beating Texas in the Sugar Bowl. I get it. That's all justified.
But if you are honestly trying to say Vice hasn't vastly improved the O Line, or that Peoples isn't having a monster senior season after looking very mundane as a RB for two years, or that we've developed our young receivers so well that we barely even notice the loss of Cam Phillips this season, or that Ryan Willis hasn't developed like a fiend since coming in against ODU, then you're either blind or willfully ignorant.
Be as mad as you want about the year we're having, but don't just make shit up.
That did sound a bit strong, but I'm certainly not "making shit up."
It's well documented on this site that I'm a huge Peoples fan. Yes, we've recruited very well across the board on offense, especially at the skill positions. Yes Willis has been a bright spot and it seems like he should have been the starter since day 1 of the 2018 season. And yes Vice has done 1000X better at recruiting OL talent than the previous staff, although they still look like a lower tier ACC OL unit during large stretches of a game.
But this offensive staff doesn't appear to be developing players very well. I think we have more talent on O than we've had in quite some time on the offensive side, but I also think we are far from the ceiling with this offensive unit.
I'm not mad about the year we're having. There's not enough minutes in the day to be mad about football. But it is disappointing to see this offense regressing throughout the season for two consecutive seasons.
Edit: I've always been a fan of Steven Peoples, so I cannot say positively one way or the other that the staff developed him or that he simply needed more carries. I tend to think the latter, and that was on full display tonight as he didn't get his carries.
I think we have the most potential that we've had on offense since 2010, but players don't just immediately become contributors. Our OL is the best it's been since 2011, our WR's are the best freshman WR's we've since... ever? We have depth at QB, which was not the norm three years ago. The offense is improving.
The inconsistency from the offense is frustrating. I don't know how we put up 250+ yards in the first half, but couldn't muster up 150 in the second. The players are showing flashes of greatness, but can't keep it up for a full game. It just takes time and lots and lots of reps to develop consistency.
The disapline of the players is most frustrating because it's should be the easiest fix. False starts and personal fouls are dumb mistakes. That's on the HC. Maybe he didn't set expectations in the beginning of the year. Maybe he's choosing to focus on other things instead. I'd like to hear him talk about why penalties seem to be such a problem, and how he plans to improve it, both this year and in the upcoming years.
This is all about adjustments made by the OC. The other team's DC's have out adjusted us since late in Fuente's first year.
I did not see any noticable tweaks to BC's zone coverage in the second half. But I did see our offense tank after Willis was nearly broken in half at the ribs. Willis started failing to find open receivers because he was a lot quicker to leave the pocket after taking that shot.
The in-game discipline is all part of the development process and culture, neither of which seem to be taking at the present time. The offense is fairly young, but it isn't full of freshman. These guys have all had significant playing time.
Year two of in-season regression seems to indicate that there are issues.
Statistically, our offense is improved over last year. Prior to this game, our S&P+ offensive ranking was up 75 spots from last year. I really think every position group has improved over last year. I question some of the playcalling, and I agree with concerns around culture, but I am confident enough in the improvements that we are seeing to justify another year.
I posted it in another thread, so I won't do so here. Our offense has not been good against P-5 opponents this season or last. A chunk of our yardage and points come in garbage time. I think those S&P numbers mean something, but they don't tell the whole story.
I certainly don't think the offense has regressed over last season, but it has regressed in certain aspects throughout the season, just like last year.
I think that statistical regression when you enter conference play is the norm. Playoff caliber teams can maintain, maybe, but I think the vast majority of programs cool off down the stretch.
FYI, S&P+ is designed to account for strength of opposing defense, and does not count garbage time.
I do think our offense is overrated in S&P+, and my theory is because there were a lot bad plays against GT and ND that were excluded because it was in garbage time. I tweeted at Bill Connelly to see if would confirm my theory, but he has not tweeted back.
A chunk of our yardage and points also game when the games were competitive.
For me, the bigger problem was giving away points and falling behind.
It should not take what would(by then) be 5-6 years to develop a team, especially at a blue chip school in what is a relatively weak conference. People forget that these young guys are Fu's guys.
I feel so bad for Dax, he should have went to a football school that cares about winning.
Kid played his nuts off today. He is part of the future of this team. He'll win enough over his next 3 years to make you eat this statement. I'm as pissed as anyone, but this misses the mark. I'm not going to downvote, but this kid is a winner and this team is going to win eventually. They're too talented not to.
Second week in a row you have wished for recruits or current players to go to other schools. This is bullshit. We're all pissed off about the loss but don't undermine the hard work our coaching staff has done on the recruiting trail. A lot of people donate a lot of money to the athletic department that funds recruiting and you acting like a punk about it doesn't help them at all to improve. Stop.
Fu and co have castrated this program.
This fucking guy
The postgame quote from Fuente.
He's not wrong
He's also accountable for nothing. This team is playing like shit on offense.
If you think the offense is shit, I'd love to hear your description of the defense
The thing is, everyone knew our defense would be bad this year. it was up to the offense to win games. and they havent. period.
This.
Fu waiting for the Defense. In 2013 we were 102nd in Offense. We dropped to 43rd after last week but still big improvements
Most 2018 preview were just like athlons
2nd half of his comment isn't. He did put up records, or more specifically he called plays that were executed and resulted in records.
This year, the plays aren't being executed, so maybe call some plays that the offense can execute consistently. If the players can't execute what you are calling then they need to stop calling those plays.
This is probably the biggest gripe and productive comment of the thread. Fuente is right, playcalls just aren't being executed. But Corn has continue to find what works and run those plays instead of the "scheme plays" that he wants to run but our guys cant execute. This year, our line cant run block well so the plays Corn wants to use to set up the big play isn't working.
Sounds like Frank defending Stiney. Just a block or two away.
Because Frank was right. We werent executing then and we aren't now.
We'll be fine in the grand scheme of things. I have no worries
I get it's a frustrating time but this is the kind of thing I absolutely hate to see out of a HC and doesn't give me much faith in his leadership of this program, even if it's true. Very Hue Jackson-esque.
And this is the kind of attitude that gets you fired, continually blame the kids when cornelson did the same shit in year one (stalling in cuse). Have to take accountability eventually
Anyone else tired of Fuente blaming the players, the ones he recruited no less.
Even if CJF's thinking this, he can't say it. I can't imagine a successful coach doing that.
What? Seriously? You can't imagine a coach holding players not performing responsible?
That's absurd.
Not at all, because most of them aren't performing up to the level they need to or should be. They are also young and need development but holding playera accountable is what coaches should do.
CJF actually followed this statement with; it's not transferring from the coaches to the players, it's the coach's job to get the players ready.
Andy Bitter straight up trolling.
I'll reiterate what I said in the game thread:
Just like at UNC, and end of the half against ND, the offense does click when we are under pressure or in hurry up. This shows that the issue is not the players. The players can make the plays. What is fundamentally wrong is that the coaching staff do not know how to manage a game. Cornelsen specifically is terrible at it. We had issues on this front during the Jerod 2016 season as well. Cornelsen and Fuente recede into a shell during large parts of the game and when we invariably shoot ourselves in the foot, things snowball out of control quickly.
Cornelsen is not cut up for a P5 job.
FTFY
It's time to read a good book ya'll
No our fans just left at halftime, too cold to catch a tan and it was getting dark!
Mood:
Oh yay another one of these
#bringbeamerback /s
I appreciate the spirit, but am finding it hard to muster the angst.
I didn't watch the game. I didn't feel the need to watch the game. I knew if I did watch the game I'd have a worse day. I'm not smart enough to know what a feasible solution is, but I am smart enough to know that one won't be actively sought this year.
God help me I still think QP4 could take us to the promised land next year. But this year is toast.
I don't have an issue with any coach or player except one, Cornelson.
Fuente needs to take playcalling away, sooner than later. The bromance is over.
Fuente said in the radio interview that it was Cornelson's call to put QP into the game. Personally, I don't think he should even travel to Pitt so we don't risk burning the redshirt.
Cornelson needs to be cuffed for the rest of the year. Fuente blaming the players and giving a free pass to the playcalling is stupid. We see through that mess.
I agree with this
Coming in to check TKP after a loss like
On a positive note, Sierra Nevada in Asheville is pretty swell.
At this stage you can see where there's progress.
QB: Zero. The good ones do well the not so good ones don't develop. Hendon Hooker still has not attempted a pass in a game. QP has.
Receivers: Good. Our receivers seem to develop. Grimsley and Kumah are way better this year than last year.
Running Backs: Not so great.
Tight Ends: Not sure...
O Line: Not bad.
D Line: Not bad. We're playing with a skeleton crew.
Line Backers: Not bad. These guys are all young.
Safeties: Not bad.
DBs: Coming along.
What I have seen is the two positions where there seems to be zero progress is at QB and Running Back.
Burden played Wide Receiver and was a Wide Receiver coach and is mostly retained for 757 recruiting (which hasn't really worked out).
I don't need to pile any more on. We all know who coaches QBs.
Saying RB isn't coming along is seriously downplaying how much Peoples is playing his nuts off this year.
People's was already a good back. Our O-Line has improved.
VT has scored a total of 14 points in the second half in the last two games.
For most of us (TKP community's at least) this probably sums up our feelings a little more accurately:-)
I tried to find this gif after the GT game. Well done
Folks, lets chill, if not for for the TKP logo in the banner, I would swear this was a thread on the Sabre....
This is easily the worst season of VT football in 25+ years, I think being "not chill" is completely warranted.
Venting is good for the soul, but lets vent like its driven by bourbon not zima...
I seem to remember playing UVa for bowl eligibility within the past 25 years, and there have been some seasons where we had no offense whatsoever.
So it's not "easily the worst season of VT football".
Yet.
But the margin for error gets smaller every week, and I'm not seeing as much improvement as I'd like to be seeing.
You're inherently proving these people right. Isn't it ironic that you're confusing this board with a uva board that posts how bad their team has been over the past 20 year? Are you saying le sabre should have looked more like the Alabama board over the past ten years?
If we look like le sabre, that can be a sign that the team is bad. We look like the le sabre board because our results are similar to what uvas were during that time
Lets all take a step back and really think about this season. We had really bad attrition in the offseason losing key players in our secondary and d-line. If those players were still on the team I think our defense would be in a much better place. Now for our offense...I feel (and hope you don't roast me for it) we have to give Fuente a pass even though it is very frustrating to watch the product on the field. No matter how much some of us like Willis as the QB, he has only been the starter for 5 games and those 5 games were the heart of our schedule. I think if we are playing like this next season then yes grab your pitchforks and raid the barn...but at the start of the season we all deep down saw this outcome as a real possibility. We have 3 games left versus 3 of the teams we hate the most...lets go out there and try to win them and get some momentum going for next year.
via GIPHY
So what's Fuente's buyout?
About tree fiddy
About shut the fuck up Funete is not the problem
He's the head coach, right?
It's $9M prior to 12/15/2018 and $5M after.
I don't think we're there yet but just thought I'd look it up.
I'm not really there yet either, but I'm decidedly unhappy. This is year 3. I realize the team is young but the guys that are playing are his guys. I don't really see this team as getting better, and it sure looks like he inherited a talented team but can't figure out what to do now that those guys are gone.
I think all of your observations are spot on.
Thank you for that. I was just thinking how much more it would suck to be in the UNC fanbase. Imagine going 13-1 then 1-7 within 2 years.
I'm not sure why there are so many people that are unwilling to place any blame on Fuente when things go wrong.
Fuente got lucky to take over a team with NFL talent already on the roster. This alone helped him to have the first season success that he enjoyed. Since then, Beamer's players have moved on for one reason or another and now we largely have Fuente's team. These players were brought in for his system and coached under his coaches. They're undisciplined and are getting pushed around in every game we play.
I'm going to interrupt now to include some inside info that I've been holding onto for a while but I think it needs to be brought to light. Everyone LOVES the new strength staff on this site. LOVES. But from a source that would know better than just about anyone else, our strength staff is cutting corners and aren't as good as the pictures would have you believe. In fact, those off-season workout pictures you see where the players look jacked are compared to before pictures where the players are supposed to put on a lot of water weight. This team looks physically impressive but they are not as strong as previous teams. And again, this is info from someone that would know as well as anyone. And even if you don't believe me, watch our players get pushed around.
Now, let's compare to UVA for a second. UVA had ZERO talent on their roster when Bronco was hired. Since then they've brought in some very unimpressive recruiting classes. They're already bowl eligible this year. So how does a team with no existing talent and poor recruiting classes have success in their third year? Their coaches are probably actually coaching up their players to play above their rankings. You know something that Tech used to pride themselves on doing. Now, Fuente is so quick to throw HIS players under the bus instead of taking any responsibility whatsoever. We didn't execute. So then maybe we need to change what we're trying to do to help the players execute better?
And if anyone is coming to hire Cornelson please let him take the job. I'd love to know who that could possibly be. He's either unable or unwilling to change his tactics to adjust to defensive schemes and/or our strengths and it has cost us games.
And finally, the defense. The defense didn't adjust against GT which was infuriating. Today they played well enough to keep us in the game and give us a shot to win. However, from a different source, Fuente is using Tyrone Nix as his defensive puppet (Edit to add that my source was unclear of whether this was intentional by Fuente or not). According to this source (third-hand, not as credible as my first), Nix is coaching the defense separately from Foster. Including calling different plays from the sideline during the game. Now even if this is happening, can you imagine being a freshman on the field and getting two different calls from the sideline? Would certainly help explain why our guys look frozen half the time.
All this to say Fuente needs to step up. He needs to be transparent and take responsibility. He needs to be the head of this football team. And most importantly, he needs to prove to his players and the fan base that he is capable of coaching this football team.
If this is true (big if) then that must mean that Foster will move on right? Don't see how a veteran like him will take shit from Fuente and his staff.
You all are honestly entertaining the idea that Bud is being subverted by a deep state Tyrone Nix?
God help us all.
Just replying to the comment man. I'm 99 sure he isn't.
Quite frankly Fuente was portrayed as nothing but "the perfect hire" by every possible outlet since his name popped up in 2015 to the point that I think people are afraid to admit to themselves that he might not be that.
Also, I just find that Foster nugget really hard to believe. As sour as I am on Fuente and his staff at the moment he was literally tackling Bud out of excitement two weeks ago and has done nothing but (publicly) appreciate him. I find it really hard to believe he'd basically use an extra coach who came in because of a last second rule change to push out an incumbent legend who he has worked well with, and if he is that stupid he should be fired yesterday.
I will add that it wasn't clear whether Nix coaching the team separately was intentional or orchestrated by Fuente. As I said that source was third hand so keep that in mind.
Still stand by my other source.
Yeesh. I could believe that about the strength team. These players are getting blown off both lines of scrimmage.
I really can't believe any of this Tyrone Nix crap. Foster isn't some green DC that just got his first big promotion. I can 100% say Foster wouldn't allow that considering it's his reputation on the line. Also, if Nix is doing that, that is the quickest way to get fired. Try to subterfuge a college football legend? That is just laughable.
You don't have to and maybe my source is wrong. I rarely have insights into the program and the two things I mentioned were prefaced with how much I trusted each source. I simply included it because it's an interesting rumor and maybe one that other people had heard.
It's also wild speculation and rumor. It really doesn't have any place on this forum.
So.....did we win?
Ooof. Rough day for you. The Liverpool-Arsenal game was a 90 minute heart attack. I guess 1-1 isn't too bad but it could've been a lot worse (speaking as another Liverpool fan).
The disallowed goal by Mane was the real dagger....oof, indeed
I can see why our QB2 was QB2. And 14 needs to learn how to give maximum effort.
I know of an up and coming offensive line coach at Maryland that could be our next OC
Lol, I had to check who it was, and surprise surprise, I did not know Stiney was coaching at UMD
Dax and Kearney looked good! There's some positivity!
Dax did look good from what I saw and he is going to be a beast in a few years.
Lots of names out there on the field that I didn't recognize. I had to bust out the old Fan Guide to see who some of those kids were. Dax played like a man possessed and had a great game IMO. Kearney played very good tonight too.
Kearney is a pleasant surprise - I had no idea he was going to be as productive as I saw last night.
Dax is monster and will continue to be a monster for us, what a player.
Here is my line of thinking....
I consider a terrible or below average year to be a year where we finish below .500. The last time a VT team finished the season below .500 was 1992 (I was 7 years old for reference and went to my first VT game ever this year vs WVU) when VT finished 2-8-1.
Right now we are 4-4, right at .500. The season is not over and VT still has 3 games left to play. Keep pulling for the boys and don't give up on them. The moment we give up on the team as a fan base is the moment we will truly start losing, on the field and off the field (recruiting specifically).
Thanks and GO HOKIES!!
I hate to break it to you, but based on what I saw from the fans at the game yesterday, apathy and giving up on this team has already set in.
I have an unpopular opinion.
Maybe Fuentes comments about cornelson postgame (bitters tweet) we're actually Fuente taking the blame for the bad play calling and saving cornelson. Might not have been as "blaming the players" as it seems. I actually think that Fuente might actually have buy in from the players and staff, but they know they can't win this year- SO, they are diving in a ploy to get the first draft pick. I wouldn't be surprised at all in a few months if we trade some picks to move up from where we are. Look for a couple off season moves as well. I think the core pieces are they but Fuente has sold the team on wanting just a bit more talent.
He's pulling the old Oakland Raiders/Gruden sell the farm and wait play.... I like it.
I suffered through that entire game today, and I have neither the time, patience, nor desire to try to go through and moderate or comment on a lot of the stuff being posted here, but please let me just request that if you're getting into nasty arguments with people on the Internet, step away from the keyboard. Vent threads are never productive but for some people they are cathartic. Let's not turn against each other during a difficult season.
I think most of the angry fans on here posting @ each other have left for the night. This thread has gotten pretty quite except for us jokers still hanging around.
I'm just sitting here waiting for the "We need your
moneysupport!!" email from the Hokie Club to come inIt's queued up to come out right after Sports Center.
"Now, I don't care who you are. That's funny."
First game at Lane in 7 years, we lose and I got my car towed..............
Damn dude, I really feel for you on that. I got towed twice in Blacksburg as a student. Some things never change...
The last OC I felt comfortable with was Rickey Bustle.
We had some tough teams back then.
I don't know what the hell is going on in this thread, but this game was lost because of the following :
- Not taking advatage of drives to score points in the 2nd quarter due to Cunningham's bad penalty, a bad snap, bad false start
- The offense stagnating in the 2nd half and not doing anything with the ball
- A few bad calls that went BC's way
- The defense eventually breaking down because the offense couldn't score
- Allowing a free access touchdown in the 3rd quarter
- Missing run containment and run fits
I don't buy the youth of this team as an excuse for the mistakes. That is coaches not doing their job. Cunningham is not a freshman and took a selfish penalty. The play calling was abysmal in the 3rd quarter. No aggression, easy to defend. Receivers dropping passes....that is talent evaluation or coaching. Completely unacceptable.
There has been no progression this year, just the same dumb shit happening repeatedly. This is not a good product.
Are we sure Fuente is a good coach? Has he put together a good staff? Has he correctly evaluated talent? Has he dismissed players that could help us and was it worth it? These are all reasonable questions that need to be answered.
So why are these players not prepared to play two halves of a game? Why have we not seen them play two halves this year aside from what, William and Mary? The coaches need to do better in preparing these guys. I know it's a young team, especially on the defensive side of the ball, but realistically we should not be this bad week in and week out. It's an embarrassment at this point and somebody needs to have to worry about their job, whether it is Cornelsen because of the play calling, Wiggins because of the WR drop problem that seems to be there, or someone on the other side of the ball with how poorly the defense has played this year. Fuente needs to take an honest look at this staff and this team and figure something out. I've given up hope on this season and I still end up disappointed. This team needs to show some heart and play through adversity, play 4 quarters, and see if you can gut something out. They're not going to luck into wins like the UNC game every week. From an untrained eye, this team has regressed since Fuente has arrived and it's frustrating, sad, and infuriating. We just got beat by an offense that has its plays called by Scott F-in Loeffler. We lost by 2 TDs to ODU. We got wrecked by GT. Somebody needs to step up and do something because it doesn't even feel like there's a glimmer of hope going into each week anymore. I watch because I love this team based on the logo on the side of their helmets. I get hurt every week because I feel like I'm more willing to fight for a win than the players on the field. Fuente, DO SOMETHING
Only thing I'll add is someone should always be worried about their job. Comfort brings complacency. It doesn't look like it but I guarantee you Two A Tounge Ah Voila isn't comfortable when he sleeps at night.
Geez guys. I see a team full of young talent that hasn't figured out how to be consistent. We have a quarterback that has strengths and weaknesses that aren't jiving with the rest of the offense's strengths. The defense is a sieve but put together a good effort today. Scripted offense is successful while off script offense looks lost at times. I know it may be a tired excuse but this team is very young. I don't see the sky falling as much as I see the growing pains of a program overhaul.
My take is Brad could only succeed year 1 because no team had film of us under his offense. Now they all know what screen pass or jet sweep we are going to play. There is no variety in the play calling, we cant even line up in I formation