I'm sitting at my desk, bored and waiting for a 2PM meeting that is keeping me from kick starting my Thanksgiving time off, and I'm wondering what TKP thinks about Virginia Tech's inability to fund raise at the level that is comparable to the overall success of the program.
Based on 2016-2017 NCAA Finances, our Athletic Department sits at 44th in the country with $87M in Total Revenue.
Now. Despite our struggles, I am confident in stating that our Athletic Department (specifically a combination of Football and Men's Basketball as revenue generating sports) would be ranked higher than this if you did a sort of "Power Rankings" for the NCAA.
There are plenty of schools above us that are in no way surprising. I don't expect to ever compete with Texas or Michigan, but color me surprised that we're $7M behind Colorado, $9M behind Rutgers, $23M behind WVU etc.
Now, we can talk about the ACC's inability to get the ACC network off the ground and Tobacco Road's frustrating fixation on basketball over football, but we're still behind FSU ($144M), Louisville ($120M), Clemson ($112M), and UVA ($92M) in conference. Those may all make sense based on the overall football success of FSU, recent rise of Clemson football, Louisville's corporate sponsorship and UVA's deep pocketed donors.
But what is it that we're doing wrong?
We all know that Weaver's Athletic Department was both fiscally conservative and woefully behind the times when it came to modernizing from a technology department. Are we still being weighted down by that?
I know that I've been frustrated by the Hokie Club's site and the difficult process to donate. I've seen plenty of people who have stated that they've never been contacted by VT Athletics for donations.
But Hokies travel well. They buy tickets and apparel. We have Engineering alumni that make good money. I'm sure we have some big time donors that I've never heard of who are the real movers and shakers behind the scenes from a boosters perspective. But I know that a vast majority of my friends don't donate and I don't understand what sets us apart from other fan bases/alumni networks. Wikipedia says we have ~250K alumni, how do we harness their donating prowess?
According to the drum (or dead horse) that HokieFireman is repeatedly beating, Clemson's success is directly linked to the success of IPTAY, their fundraising arm. How do we revamp the Hokie Club to look more like theirs (without the on-field successes...)
Comments
The latest Hokie Club numbers arrived in the mail comparing us to our ACC peers. I'm at playground with kids but I'll post highlights later.
Some extended family semi emergency stuff has come up don't know when or if I'll get to this or other projects I had hoped to for TKP this week off.
I hope everything is ok for your family
Thanks I appreciate it.
Here are some charts from the Drive for 25 Donor Guide. May not be the same thing but may be useful.
I think so, and I don't think it was limited in terms of just technology. There was never any urgency to raise more. I think our seating arrangements under JW were antiquated and didn't lend themselves to fundraising. There were some extremely low thresholds to get to to keep mid-field seats (in perpetuity) without continuously donating. He catered to a very specific set of existing donors, and I don't think did enough to grow the donor base (hence Drive for 25). Fundraising apathy from the administration spread to the fanbase, and we're stuck trying to combat 20+ years of that now.
There are other contributing factors - entering the ACC was a win that wasn't used as a catalyst for more fundraising, the ACC being so shitty when we entered and immediately having the success we had probably gave our fanbase and AD a false sense of security for long term success, John Swofford is small time also, and really did the whole conference a disservice with how he handled the ACC Network..
I would also guess the age and demographics of our fanbase play into this significantly, as well. Generally speaking, for those 'old-timers' who talk about how VT used to get beat by VMI, they've likely super happy with the product, the bowl streak, etc. For those who went to school in the mid-late 2000s, there is probably more lust for VT to take the next step, and less overall satisfaction with 'beat UVA and make a bowl' being the goal of the football program. The latter folks are likely getting to the point where they're more capable of donating and making more significant contributions to HC. Whit should be going after this demographic hard, IMO.
I'm one of the old timers. Super happy with the product? No. Happy about the bowl streak, you bet. Happy about the Cup streak? You bet. Just because VMI was a big game in our salad days doesn't mean that we don't want success, but it does give us more perspective on the history of VT football, having lived it and gone to the games when you went to games because you were a fan of your school. I'd be willing to bet that the older guys give plenty to VT, though I'm not one of them because of a combination of modest means and priorities, but I know if I had the bucks I'd be a giving fool. It wouldn't stop me from giving if we didn't win it all, if I could give. I did, and do what I can to support VT football, had season tickets for years and attended home games for years before that, and was privileged to be a part of the rise of VT football. I get that times have changed and it's a do it now or go to hell kind of world, but in my elderly opinion, if you can't enjoy streaks of 10 win seasons, streaks of bowl games, beating the lols every year, well, then you'll never be satisfied. We're one of what, 127 teams? We ain't Alabama, and yet, our fans can't be satisfied unless we win it all? Win it once, and they'll gripe because we didn't go back to back.
Yes, we care as a fandom, yes we want more and that's cool, but unrealistic expectations breed disappointment, and I decline to go there. But yeah, go ahead and blame the old folks, I'm sure it's our fault.
I see you skipped "generally speaking" and decided to take offense to something unnecessarily - as no one specifically (aside from JW) was blamed for anything.
Qualifying a statement with 'generally speaking' doesn't mean people can't point out they're not part of the general speak. Cut man a break. Kudos to Fish for being a fan
TKP has a weird obsession with trying to point out single exceptions to rules. This is another one of those times. No reason for anyone to take offense, nor was I questioning anyone's fandom. Chill
Exceptions to rules? What rules?
You are making some generalizations about VT fans. I know some of the older fans, and your generalization doesn't describe any of the people I know.
They're older. They're not stupid. So it won't surprise me a bit if fans that fit that demographic are a bit offended by that characterization.
Edit: Actually, in looking back at the comment, I'm in the category, too, so count me as another "exception".
The idea that the "old timers" are somehow holding the program back has popped up on TKP more than once, and it always gets a rise out of me. I'm also guilty of generalizing, usually concerning people and their cell phones, twitter, facebook, etc., so I know how easy it is to generalize, but it still pisses me off to read what I consider inaccurate and demeaning characterizations of an entire group of people, fellow fans no less, by folks who have no idea what kind of contributions those folks may have made to VT. I will not "chill" on this matter and suggest those who feel that way find another scapegoat. It's not so much that I take it personally, I'm sure you don't know me nor I you, but that I find it a ludicrous assertion that needs to be addressed and I'm just jerk enough to do so. It's kinda like Fireman and his Rich Rod gif...if I read it, I'll react.
Hear! Hear (Another old Hokie).. Those who remember what we were, appreciate what we are.
From the demographics thread the other day, we are close to 50% engineers.
I spent part of this week cold calling engineers for a position I'm recruting on, and it's the absolute pits.
I get cuttoff within a minute of introducing myself and if someone stays on the phone for a little longer I get told to basically go f myself for just doing my job.
Now imagine you are cold calling to get donations.
A survey that was left open for two days said that more representatives of a group of people that tends to live or die by numbers responded to said survey....
The results may hold true, but my high school-level stats knowledge says the sample size was probably limited, and cause for doubt.
TKP is. VT as a school is more like 20%. It may have been higher in the past but we are talking like Pre 1972 or something.
Engineers vary greatly in personalty (we are really individuals believe it or not. The Borg from STTNG is purely fiction). But... Some of the stereotypes are true otherwise they wouldn't exist... I'm a Computer Engineer; We're the weirdest and most antisocial of the bunch. Then it's the electrical guys (even though I swear the EM guys are weirder than we are). After that you have pretty much the rest of the Engineering fields which attract mostly "normal" people. Hell, some ME's are probably inked pretty well. The "most normal" engineers are ISEs because, they're not really engineers. J/K. You guys are great and do a lot in expanding engineering practices into other fields.
For the most part though Engineers aren't really into small talk. They'd rather be recruited by a cyborg sent from the future to... Never mind you get the point.
I don't have a hard time with them but I get immediately to the point and I think the know I'm an engineer.
Engineering school at VT is torturous and robs you of the "college experience", so it takes a few years for Engineers to get over the trauma and even begin to think about giving money back.
If you want some tips I'd be happy to help but you are dealing with a unique audience that has to be approached a certain way.
Quick anecdote: I had two engineering roommates at Tech, one mechanical and the other electrical. Holy crap, they were wound tight. Constantly fretting and stressing about homework. This was back in '94. I remember we had a Thursday night game against West Virginia. We were ranked 14 and it was a big freaking deal to be on ESPN. And tickets were plentiful. You just walked into war memorial hall, flashed your ID, and got a ticket. I could not pry those guys away from their desks. I was like, guys, this is what college is about. You take an occasional break and do something fun, like go to a game. No way. They didn't have time for that. Maybe they had something big due the next morning. I don't know. But that was the norm. When they weren't in class they were holed up doing homework. Nice guys but very serious and stressed. And 0 interest in Hokie sports.
Anecdotal evidence is...anecdotal. I did mechanical engineering and it was a joke until fall of senior year. And even then it was one rough semester and the next they slacked off like crazy so you could job search. I skipped class like it was my job, painted up for football games in all weather, and thoroughly enjoyed my "college experience." Also, graduated magma cum laude. Could I have gotten better grades? Probably. Could I have had more fun? Probably.
So, yeah, I don't buy for a minute that you have to choose between being an uptight engineer or fail out but have fun like it's a binary choice.
I think it's a combination of things.
I think that any of these things on their own could be overcome (relatively) easily, but all three combined present a unique challenge.
You're not wrong, and it doesn't change your premise, really, but VT does have a med school and an executive MBA program.
No law school, though.
The med school is brand spankin new though, it will be decades before there are hugely successful doctors with tons of money to throw around who can attribute it to our med school.
Yes... In addition med school debt cuts into that pay for a long time.
The business school discontinued the full time MBA program in Blacksburg, but they are making a big push in growing the evening MBA program (separate from the executive MBA) here in the DC region.
Wow. I did not realize that.
I didn't know that, either.
I agree with your basic premise.
I'll be honest, I think this one is the most crucial aspect of all. When I was younger and growing up in Southside VA, you were more likely to find fans of teams like Michigan, Notre Dame, Alabama, etc.; the more nationally recognized 'brands' in college football. Hell, you even were more likely to find more UVA than VT fans - but then when Beamer started having growing success within the program, you started to see the groundswell build where, now, if I go back to my hometown, it leans vastly in the favor of VT athletics. But that's the thing, it took that long to get to this point, and now that I'm at the age where I'm starting a family and have the disposable income to throw the way of the Hokie Club, we have to continue to hope that the relevance is maintained. Get each of those successive classes/generations who are ingrained in the culture of Virginia Tech to feel the same way and to keep the ball rolling, and eventually we'll catch up (hopefully). That's why this is such a good point that you've made - we have to step back and realize sometimes that, in the grand scheme of college athletics, our successes in a lot of areas are a blip on the radar compared to the historic and storied successes of a lot of the blue bloods, you know?
via GIPHY
I would agree with that with one notable exception. The big swinging dick of RVA Bill Goodwin is a multi-billionaire and also a VT engineering grad.
If you ever want to fuck with a Wahoo, let them know that a Hokie was their Rector on their Board of Directors up until last year.
Begs the question, whys he involved with UVA instead of his alma mater? I assume the Goodwin building is named after him, but he's the type of guy I'd like to have on our boards
Am engineer. Do not make fuck you money. Working on getting my own shit together before worrying about giving more money to a place I already gave 4 years of tuition/fees/board to.
An untapped demographic for donors is architects (anti-engineers). We ALL make "fuck you money" or more, but I've never been asked to contribute.
/s
*Kristen Bell laughing then crying dot gif*
Your comment is too real my man
We wouldn't need this thread had I hit that fat Mega Millions a few weeks ago. Just saying.
Poor outreach.
I'll add to this in that the website is horrifically outdated. Donating online should be easy.
The lack of a big nearby economic hub to Blacksburg is a factor. Living in RVA, I know plenty of corporations/law firms have season tickets to VCU/UVA/UR games. Also, the transplant families with no ties to the commonwealth go to those games as well for the "experience".
If Tech was ~1 hour away from DC or at the minimum RVA, that number would be higher.
If you are talking proximity, yes, but we do have hubs nearby, including Roanoke, DC, and Charlotte. Penn State is in the middle of no where, and that's not an issue for them.
It's a factor, not the factor.
As we have been through every time a dc kid commits to penn state, it is closer to more hubs than vt
This hurts us the most. I love Blacksburg, but it's location will always hurt us.
They need to be funneling the ees into investment banking, wait about 6 months, then profit.
It's simple math guys.
As a former finance bro, IB isn't what it used to be. Lots of money in arb/prop trading which heavily recruits engineer/quant majors, VT should dominate that marketplace.
Just wait until Radford gets their football team *ducks* lol
I have a prediction on this one. Zero data to back up. I think there's going to be a new crop of Hokies that will be hitting the donation scene in the next 5-10 years and I expect this gap to close.
I graduated VT in 2003. School wasn't that well known in the north east where I was from. It was really just ag and engineering. Everything else seemed like an afterthought.
Cleary since then VT has improved tremendously academically. And it also feeds into some high paying/opportunity areas like DC and Charlotte with a solid contigent in NYC and Philly.
I stayed in touch with a lot of my college buddies. Most them live in the DC area and make north of $250k per year. Combined household im the 400-500 range. Some more than that. Ages 37-40. I know there's also a strong contingent in NYC that do quite well at some at top PE firms making good money. I live in SF and work in tech at well known company.
Based on my small sample size I do feel like the subsequent generations of tech grads have done bigger and better things outside of the school. Likely correlated with the improved academic standards and programs. I'm not claiming that our class was the first to land a job at a prestigous bank but that we were more likely than the classes before and I hope there is more ahead of us. As these groups grow older we should see more donations and I expect the gap to close. Simply put I think the fan base is getting richer.
I donate a little to the Hokie club, but I plan to donate much more as my savings grow. We have 3 kids under 5 and so do most of my friends. So this isn't the ideal time to be dumping lots of money into the school while you're saving college funds. But those milestones will be met and hopefully our income will continue to grow, freeing more money for the Hokie club.
And I'm sure there will be some outliers that will do extremely well and it only takes a few of those folks to tip the scales. $36M a year for clemson isn't that inconceivable for the next gen of hokie donors.
But as I said this anecdotal. Just a prediction.
Personally, I think that the Hokie Club is not set up well and is alienating many of the younger fans (00-17 grads) through ticket redistribution, stupid tailgating rules, blatant lack of response to questions, etc. My recent communication with a Hokie Club official was disappointing to say the least and reflected my reasons listed. If my friends (HC members) and I cannot get our questions answered from this official, we feel ignored/alienated. Folks our age group will be the primary donors for years to come and I think they are showing poor "customer service" if this was a business.
Whit needs to clean house of those running the Hokie Club and restructure it like Clemson's and put an emphasis on attracting new members and customer service. We have such a large donor base, it is ridiculous VT can't raise more money. Students should be "raised" during our college years with the Hokie Club being a much more prominent figure so that it pays dividends down the line.
On the positive side, my friends and I (2007 grads) continue to return every year to have a blast in Blacksburg at a yearly reunion for a game. Some of us are Hokie Club members. Despite the loss, the stadium was fun, I saw several acts of kindness from stadium personnel and police officers and my friends and I will do it again next year, but the Hokie Club won't be getting my dollars. The school won't receive any donations from me either with regards to its treatment of Greek Life and the wasting of money over the logo fiasco.
Heading down again tomorrow morning for the UVA game, I'm hoping there will be a better experience if I communicate with a Hokie Club official again.
I believe Whit HAS changed the Hokie Club quite a bit. He has improved it, and it does raise more money than when he arrived. I think they have tried to better integrate the program for undergrads as well.
But as far as your specific incident, do you care to provide the details of (or even generally describe) what happened? It's very difficult to tell what you're talking about. Are you really talking about the Hokie Club?
Also, how is the Hokie Cub "failing Greek life"?
Maybe someone will read your comment, and can benefit from your experience.
I'm glad to hear Whit has changed and improved the HC. I hope he continues to evolve it because I still think there is work to be done.
I'm going to modify my comment since our specific incident cannot be discussed here to provide any positive discussion regarding my experience. However, the email responses (when he chooses to respond) are from a high level member of the Hokie Club per the signature on the email chain and are pretty darn disappointing. My friends within the Hokie Club are displeased.
The school/University won't receive money from me based on their treatment of the Greek Life. I differentiate the school and Hokie Club and as of recent communication with both over the past year, I choose not to donate to either at this time. I still am a huge supporter of the school vocally, as well as the football team, attending my 4th home game this season tomorrow. I hope things improve so I feel compelled to donate in the future.
Greek life alienation is huge. Greeks are often from affluent families and tend to have a deeper connection to the school than the average student.
How is the Hokie Club alienating people through seat policies of the ticket office? How is the Hokie club responsibly for the monogram club?
Some of my Hokie Club member friends had their seats and parking passes "downgraded" (term they used) despite donating the same level as prior to the redistribution. They have had their emails and calls ignored when they wanted to discuss it. Not my personal experience as I am not a member, nor do I buy season tickets, but it is concerning.
I was under the impression the Monogram Club was part of the Hokie Club, but if I'm wrong, I digress. It's sad to see the thread pop up the other day that former players are still feeling left out and it doesn't look good.
Correct because Tech finally joined the rest of P5 and went to per seat donations.
Ok, if that is what is needed, great. Sounds like they are lacking in the communication department if they are ignoring donors' questions about it.
The Hokie Club should be able to answer your friends' questions, and should be polite and informative in doing so.
I can understand the frustration of season ticket holders if the transition to the new system changed their benefits, but Whit did institute the Hokie Club changes in order to raise more money and be more in line with other ACC programs.
I'm optomistic about both our sports revenue and endowments growing in the future simply because of demographics. It takes a lifetime to accumulate wealth, so my guess is that most really large contributions are made by old people (sorry, no offense intended). Civilians were only allowed into the university a few years before I was admitted. That means many of our oldest alumni are Corps members. Since a large percentage of the Corps make careers in the Armed Forces, it means that many have not accumulated a large wad of cash (simply because the Armed Forces is not known for paying excessive salaries) and our numbers are small. We have transitioned over the years to huge numbers of civilians graduating in Engineering and now have a growing Medical School for doctors. If we can just add enough lawyers to the mix, we could be off to the races in future contributions. It appears to me that our older alumni are growing rapidly both in numbers and income. You can't give money until you have it.
I fall into this new category. I'm 30 and recently started my own business that I have raised quite a bit of capital for. I pay myself a small salary and my young family is on my single income so I am just scraping by but often think about going big ongoing donations once I hit that big payday.
It's coming guys!