Just posting this question for any of the former VT hockey players/supporters that may be lurking on the boards. I used to live in Boston and watched a lot of college hockey while I was there. The games were awesome and I felt like a big-time hockey program would fit really well within Virginia Tech's athletic profile.
I'm sure it comes down to money- Cassell can't be retrofitted into a hockey rink which would require building a new arena (I know the team plays in Roanoke now- I think it defeats the purpose of having a D1 program unless there was an arena on-campus). With Title IX, it means also bringing in either a women's hockey team or another women's sports program. The constant travel costs to northern schools would be prohibitive (Alabama-Huntsville has a hockey program so it's not impossible).
But for whatever reason, I can't stop thinking about it. Given Tech's location, we would be at a natural advantage of being one of the southern-most programs in the country along with having the DMV catchment region. I really think students would come out for games in droves. I think with the right coach, it would become Tech's version of UVa's lacrosse program.
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It's mostly the funding and lack of a rink in Blacksburg. I thought abt playing club at tech but traveling all the way to Roanoke to play was just too much.
Liberty has a team as well. Hell as I recall even Arizona State has one now.
It mostly comes down to title IX and cost like you mentioned.
Liberty's team isn't NCAA Division 1. It's just ACHA.
I played for a year in a substitute capacity. In the early 2000s back when VT needed bodies. It was surprisingly cheap to play at the time. Of course now it is completely different.
Because we're not Canadian?
Is there even a rink in the Blacksburg area? You couldn't even skate when I was there in the 90s. It is impossible to be D1 without ice.
The Tech club team plays at Lancerlot in Vinton
Title IX, Money, Women's sports.
If you add a sport you better hope it will be successful (money and wins) at this point with our department. We also have a lot of sports in comparison to most big D1 programs. It's the reason we don't have a hickey team and field hockey team.
These three reasons. When I was in school, I did an interview with one of the higher ups in the athletic department for a class project and I specifically asked about a D1 lax team. Can't remember his name but he mentioned that due to Title IX, any time a men's sport is added, a women's sport must be added too. He also mentioned $$$.
This is especially the case now with the VT male female ratio evening out even more. That was one of the reasons for the women's golf team if I'm not mistaken. If you look at the number of NCAA sports VT has in comparison to the rest of the ACC we have one of the most.
Is it evening out? I was under the impression it was skewing farther to males than females.
Doesn't the ACC not support ice hockey? I believe the schools in our conference that have D1 teams (ND, BC, any others?) have to play in another conference for ice hockey. That may make it difficult to have our team jump from club to varsity.
The Big Ten is the only traditional conference that exists in hockey, and even then it only has half its usual members and Notre Dame.
ND and BC are the only ACC schools with an NCAA hockey program. Not sure if it extends to other sports, but to get an automatic postseason berth (really one of the main benefits of having a conference in the first place) in both FCS football and D-1 basketball you have to have at least 6 teams.
IF VT were to make hockey a headcount sport, we'd have to either go Independent or join 1 of 3 reasonable conferences: Hockey East (11 teams), ECAC (11 teams), or the Big Ten (6 teams)
Women's hockey would have to go Independent or join College Hockey America (5 teams)
Big ten would be a nice fit.
One of the rules for D1 hockey is an on campus arena I believe. If they were to replace Cassel with something that was more multi purpose and someone was willing to fund a men's and women's team it could happen. Short of that, I don't see it happening anytime soon, as much as I would love to see VT have a D1 team.
The only reason a team like Penn State or Bowling Green or Arizona State have risen to prominence so quickly is because of backers like Terry Pegula and Mike Emrick practically forcing those programs into prominence via monetary support. VT Ice Hockey could easily create a program and compete if someone like Pegula came in and paid to build a rink and paid to get into D1. You have to remember, VT is D1 club right now, and NCAA only has two divisions, so a jump to D1 like PSU did in 2015 wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility with the players they have on the team now
People make a big deal about conferences but in reality, in college hockey, conferences only matter if you're in the NCHC, if you're not, you're not. Arizona State has been independent for a few years and are currently building a brand new rink and selling out every game and competing with perennial powerhouses
How much would it cost? It's not completely inconceivable Whit convinces one of the Hokie super donors (e.g. multibillionaire Bill Goodwin) to get involved.
EDIT: Apparently a lot. The Pegula Ice Arena at Penn State cost $88 million to build (6,014 capacity). I don't think a venue that big would make sense for Virginia Tech. It would probably cost $25-50 million to build a venue similar to Ingalls Rink at Yale (Link Here) or LaBahn Arena at Wisconsin (Link Here). I think it would be really cool for students to have a place to skate on-campus. The Caps could play preseason/exhibition games there, furthering VT's footprint in the NCR (Hell Ted Leonsis should want to get involved-expanding the Capitals brand in a non-traditional hockey region of Virginia is in his best interest).
Per this post from TKP last year, the NHL is willing to get involved at the collegiate level (Link Here). I think a combination of private donors, public bonds, sponsorships and the NHL could get it done.
Would be awesome
I think the real question is why don't we have a lacrosse team? Unlike hockey, we already have the facilities and the ACC is a good lacrosse league. We're near recruiting hotbeds of the DMV and North Carolina. Lacrosse continues to be a rising sport in popularity and is hugely popular on campus. It would be in our financial means to add men's lacrosse (we already have a varsity women's team) and a matching Title IX women's sport (bowling anyone?) And compete immediately on a national stage.
BTW I love hockey, I just don't think it's viable for Tech
Starting a lacrosse program would be more pragmatic. My position is I'd rather VT venture out into their own category versus starting a program that's a core competency of our biggest rival. Given that the athletic department pushes the VT "blue collar narrative", I'd rather have a "blue collar" sport that's our own versus a "white collar" sport that's not.
Plus, live hockey is so much more fun than live lacrosse.
And if we're talking about women's sports, I'm a little shocked that VT doesn't have a scholarship Equestrian team given its agricultural bend.
The white collar lacrosse perception is fading, and I think in reality the sport itself has become extremely egalitarian, with the exception that at the HS level it's dominated by elite private schools, however, that's not any different than football or basketball these days. The sport itself is really blue collar with roots in Native American warrior culture and currently with a bunch of dudes hitting each other with 5 foot metal poles. I'd counter that I would love to beat our biggest rival in a sport that's "their core competency". Live hockey is more fun to watch, but competitive lacrosse with your school playing is exhilarating. Watching my high school's run to the regional finals was one of the best sports experiences I've ever had.
Basketball may have a few more examples of where private schools produce elite level prospects - or D1 level prospects moreso than public, but I do not think that is the case for football. Football from public high schools is far superior than private high schools.
I think "Lacroix" is still seen as a preppy-white collar sport, much like rowing, golf, tennis, racquetball.
Good reply. Lacrosse isn't a sport I pay much attention to, but it sure interests me a whole lot more than hockey. I have no use for several sports, hockey and soccer among them, but the few lacrosse games I've paid attention to were pretty much fun. Lots of hard hitting action, decent amount of scoring, and you don't need to build a rink to play it. I've seen live hockey, 'bout went to sleep in the stands. So much depends on where you live/grew up, though, and I know folks from the more northern climes are much more steeped in hockey than we who didn't. I don't see VT investing in it, though. That said, if we had a legit D1 hockey team, I'd likely watch a game or two if it were an important tilt. I know for a fact, though, if we were competitive in lax, I'd be a fan.
As someone who plays hockey (albeit not very well) - the game may be "blue collar" on the ice, but it is definitely white collar when it comes to the wallet. You also see quite a bit of crossover between hockey/lacrosse players. When the old school (naturally frozen, with no chiller systems) rinks up north were melted in the spring/summer, many people would switch to lacrosse to stay active during the offseason..
As much as I'd personally love to see VT field an NCAA hockey team, I think it's much more likely we'd see men's lacrosse and field hockey added due to the facilities already being in place and them both being strengths of our conference.
I was a member of the club lacrosse team during my time at Tech and in terms of success (4 conference titles since 2012, Final Four berth in 2015), maturity of the program (recruiting base/practice schedule/national exposure via scheduling), and connectivity with the athletic department (usage of Thompson field/Cassell on occasion), the potential and visibility is definitely there. It would take a fair amount of money to support it, but last time I checked, the typical D1 lacrosse team only has about 13 scholarships to allocate amongst 50 or so players. It would take a while to get to the level that the ACC plays at considering the entire conference is blue bloods (ND, Duke, UNC, UVA, Cuse), but definitely possible over time. As many have mentioned before, a women's program would need to be added as well. Got to imagine it'd be field hockey.
edit: having away/national tournament games broadcast at Sharkey's/Hokie House was cool too
Definitely made my point why I'd rather have hockey vs. lax. I'm not anti-lax at all, I went to a lax-heavy high school (we had 10+ kids in my graduating class play college lacrosse in a class < 120 student total) and really enjoy watching games. My point is I'd rather have something that's uniquely Virginia Tech vs. trying to compete with the ridiculous amount of blue blood in the conference as well as JHU, UMD and Navy in the DMV region.
But I get it, hockey isn't a realistic option. Lacrosse is more pragmatic but not really because the athletic department says we're poor right now.
Women's bowling is only 5 scholarships, men's lacrosse is 12.6. Title IX says you have to have to spend a similar number of scholarship dollars on women's sports proportional to the percentage of females in the student body.
47% of Tech's students are female, so if you add 10 athletic scholarships 4.7 must be in women's sports.
12.6/.53 = 23.8. So 11.2 women's scholarships have to be added.
The only women's sports Tech currently doesn't sponsor that can achieve this with exactly one sport are (15), gymnastics (12), field hockey (12), rowing (20), or rugby (12).
With the exception of rifle, because the scholarship limit is so low and permits co-ed teams (3.6), Tech would have to add two of any of the following sports to equal the scholarships added by lacrosse. The other solution is to drop one of the other men's sports to have enough scholarships to remain in compliance:
Beach Volleyball (6)
Bowling (5)
Fencing (5)
Skiing (7)
Triathalon (6.5)
Water Polo (8)
And if you're wondering how you can have .6 or .5 scholarships, football, men's and women's basketball, gymnastics, volleyball and women's tennis are "head count" sports. That means each student who receives a scholarship takes a "full" scholarship, enough for 1 year of tuition. So football's 85 scholarships is 85 players. In other sports teams are allowed to divide up scholarship dollars however they wish, so some players may only receive partial scholarships based on need, etc. so a DI women's fencing team could have 10 members with each receiving a half-scholarship to reach the maximum permitted 5 scholarships for the team.
I played from '08-'12. It's all about having a rink on/near campus. There was always a push to get a rink in Blacksburg or Christiansburg, but it came down to not having enough $$ to build one.
Unfortunately, the cost for building a rink & funding a D1 team is pretty expensive - as someone alluded to with the donation from Pegula to Penn State.
Getting fans was never a problem - we drew pretty sizable crowds at the Roanoke Civic Center.
So what I keep reading here is we need a way to reliably freeze the Duck Pond?
Engineers, do your thing.
There's always Pandapos Pond!
Not enough Canadians that are alumni?
Until three years ago Tech couldn't even pay for its current scholarships out of donations and had to use operating money. Not sure how adding a cost heavy sport like Hockey could work. Unless people you know Join the Hokie Club.
On top of it, IIRC from the last time we discussed adding a DI hockey team, I pointed out that this isn't as simple as just adding a team and being done. Title IX requires proportional spending on men's and women's athletics and adding 18 more scholarships to men's sports means Tech would have to add enough scholarships that at least 43% of the scholarship money is being spent on women's sports (43% being the current percentage of female students at VT).
Tech is already sponsoring women's track/cross country (12.6 between both), softball (12), volleyball (12), basketball (15), lacrosse (12), swimming & diving (14) and soccer (14). The only sports Tech doesn't sponsor with remotely enough scholarships without adding a second women's sport are:
Women's ice hokey (18), equestrian (15) and rowing (20).
Field hockey, gymnastics and rugby (12 each) likely don't provide enough scholarships on their own without adding another sport (or two depending on which are picked) to the mix.
Those remaining sports?
Bowling (5), rifle (3.6, includes men for co-ed teams), skiing (7), triathalon (6.5) and water polo (8) and beach volleyball (8).
the correct answer, for any questions like this, is simple:
