I posted this thread last year and people seemed to enjoy it, so I will (somewhat reluctantly) oblige to those that requested that I write one for 2019.
As follows are my thoughts on today's signing class, and I how I would rank them as prospects. Keep in mind that these rankings reflect what I think about a player overall and how they fit in to Tech's system, but not based necessarily on present needs. Here we go:
1) Keshawn King - Aaaaand I immediately break my only rule. Just kidding, but this is the perfect example of one of our two primary positional needs matching up with what I think of a recruit. King almost has it all: fast, elusive, great reads for a zone scheme. Could stand to be a bit stronger, but would not say that he goes down easy. Dominated great competition behind a relatively bad OL. I honestly believe that the only reason he is not a high 4* is because he is a FL kid that doesn't have FSU or UF offers. If he can pick up the blocking scheme quickly, he will be your starter come September.
2) Bryan Hudson - Ranking and offer list speaks for itself. Every program wanted him. Can play anywhere on the line but I think he is the perfect RT. Strong, long, and mean. Love that he's an elite track athlete, as that will really help his balance on the gridiron.
3) Tayvion Robinson - Electric. Best player in the 757. So, so smooth. Reminds me of Jayron Hosley with the ball in his hands. Don't be surprised if he takes over starting PR duties immediately. I think he and Dejuan Ellis will be a fun combo to have play off of each other's strengths. Maybe not the type of guy that can take a slant to the house, but get him out on a bubble screen and watch out.
4) JR Walker - Type of versatile defensive back that VT has made a killing on in years past. Can play any spot in the defensive backfield (and play it well), but to me is either a FS or whip. Wouldn't surprise me to see him as the backup next year at both spots. Similar in playing style and versatility to DJ Crossen, but a better overall athlete.
5) Jacoby Pinckney - Probably won't be playing too much in '19 but will step perfectly into Kumah's vacancy once he graduates, and will quickly be even better at it. Nothing that really stands out as an elite skill, but is very good at everything. Great and willing blocker. Just a very good football player.
6) Elijah Bowick - Flip flopped between he and Pinckney in these two spots, but not really sure yet what Bowick's role will be in the offense so I put him here. Reminds me of a stronger Grimz, and slot is definitely an option. Those UGA and ND offers are real and both would've taken him. Plays in a receiver group with a high 4* 2020 recruit and outproduced him by 400 yard and 9 TD's.
7) Dashawn Crawford - Perfect fit for Wiles' line and will be an immediate starter as soon as he steps foot on campus in a couple weeks. Great penetrator and very high motor. Low center of gravity and great base. Could stand to add another 10 pounds or so in his upper body. Probably wouldn't be counted on at 50% of P5 schools, but again, a perfect fit in my eyes for a 3-technique. Woody Baron type of player.
8) Joshua Fuga - Wasn't sold at first, but the more times I watch his film, the more I like him. Big dude already and really only needs to gain muscle in his upper body, but has the size to play right away. Great first step and is very strong at the point of attack. One of the better late commits we've gotten in quite a while, and hopefully can have a similar immediate impact to a certain DT from Atlantic High (really don't want to put that kind of pressure on him but oh well). Think he has a good shot to be our 4th or 5th DT depending on whether or not we sign Cunningham and if Porcher develops.
9) Jaden Payoute - Farley level athlete on the track, but didn't see it translate as well to the field in his highlight tape. Might not be fair to the kid because he played QB, but so did Tayvion and you can tell from his film that he is a player. If I'm wrong on that, then he could definitely fill an immediate need in this offense as a field stretcher. Stronger than Tre Turner was at the same stage, so is probably more ready from that standpoint, but I haven't seen the same natural receiving ability the Big Play Tre has. PSU went after him hard earlier in the fall and also heard from UF and South Carolina, but turned them all away.
10) Will Pritchard - Prototypical center. Squatty, strong, and nasty. One of those types that just looks like a football player on film. Already has a strong upper body. Tip of the spear for a dominant Manchester squad. Assuming Harris doesn't take the job from him this year, could easily see Pritchard step in for Hoyt as a redshirt sophomore.
11) Nick Gallo - Solid player. Won't wow anyone with his athleticism, but runs crisp routes, has great hands, and is an effective blocker. Will be more of an in-line guy like Chris Cunningham than an H or a split-out guy like Mitchell. Staff's top realistic TE target and always happy to have another set of brother's in the program.
12) Amare Barno - Very intrigued by Barno, but unfortunately will have a short career in bburg. Will start out as a backer but could potentially move down to DE. Was a 6'1" safety coming out of high school, so shouldn't have too much trouble picking up coverage schemes from the linebacker spot. Good tackler, great range, but so skinny, especially in his lower body. Regardless of position, it's hard for me to see a way that he avoids a redshirt year unless he is able to pack on 20 pounds between January and August and convinces Bud that he and Dax are a better combo than Dax and Ashby. Would love for it to happen so Dax could play at his more natural spot, but I digress. Would have him 6 or 7 spots higher if he was a high school recruit.
13) Jesse Hanson - College ready body but I watch his tape and all I see is slow feet to the point where it gives me Pfaff nightmares. I'm not a great evaluator of OL talent, so hopefully I'm wrong. Clemson wanted him badly, so I likely am wrong. Great job by the staff here to get him locked up. At the least, I think he can be a Pfaff type of player and contribute.
14) Nyquee Hawkins - Tweener to me. Not fast enough for a shutdown corner, rangy and long enough for a prototypical FS, or big enough for a rover. Scared that he might be one of those types of players that just never really finds a perfect fit (kind of how Der'woun Greene was). Heard he is the same player today as he was as a high school sophomore. Almost more intrigued by his RB film.
15) Tahj Gary - Opposite of Fuga in how is film affected my thought process. Was high on him when we started evaluating running backs post-Ford, but doesn't really seem to do anything particularly well above average other than catch the ball out of the backfield. Just doesn't really have a trait that sticks out to me on film, which is disappointing considering the level of competition he plays in. Would've gone to South Carolina if they didn't cancel his OV after the injury.
16) Mario Kendricks - Loved his junior film and thought he was a perfect get for Wiles. Hated his senior film and has me worried about his future here. Gained some seriously bad weight his senior year and is noticeably slower. Was shocked when he was listed at 275 today, as I figured he would be pushing 290 with the way he looks. Not sure how he will be able to carry the necessary weight while maintaining the athleticism he showed as a junior. If he can get some serious Hilgartification, then he has the potential to do well.
17) Brion Murray - Raw as a football player but has caught on quickly in his first few years. Decent athleticism and a good jumper, but a little on the slow side. Willing tackler with solid technique. Above average coverage and ball skills, but needs to work on his press abilities. Curious to see how much he contributes this fall and am happy to have him on campus this spring under the tutelage of TBD's teaching (oops!).
18) Norell Pollard - So, so skinny. The listed 246 might even be an inflation. Apparently was sick this fall and lost too much weight. He does have very good athleticism and pass rushing abilities for a DT, but I do worry about whether or not he'll be able to gain 40 pounds or so. If he can, then he has a chance to be a solid player for us in a few years.
19) Dean Ferguson - Just don't see it. Has one skill and it's that he hits hard. More interested in making the highlight real hit or stripping the ball carrier than wrapping up. I guess he'll end up as a backer, but doesn't seem to run well enough for me. Also have low confidence in his coverage skills.
Bonus: Eugene Asante - Not yet a commit, but I just wanted to talk about him for a minute. Absolute monster. Making the switch from RB to LB this year has a chance to make him a good chuck of change one day. Great tackler, unreal straight line speed (seriously, go watch those punt blocks), and diagnoses plays extremely well, to the point where it is evident on film that he has great football instincts. People, including Bud, are talking about him as a backer, but I see him as a new age Mike for us. Just so fast and violent to the ball when running downhill, but does not run sideline to sideline as well as I would hope for a backer (I believe French calls it "scraping"). Nester is still the top remaining target for me simply due to the rarity of signing an elite level OL for VT, but Asante is nipping at his heels.
Overall, I think it's a pretty solid class. I see Tayvion, King, and Payoute as the guys with the most star potential, but see a good amount of recruits that almost assuredly will at least be solid contributors here. With the talent level of the program where it is now, I don't think that is the worst thing in the world. Really like the recovery from missing our top targets at both DT and RB, but really wish we would've taken a true DE. Am starting to be get a little scared that that will be the 2019 DT of 2021/2022.
Comments
I think Payout is gonna be a immediate playmaker. QB and WR are 2 completely different animals
Payoute played QB in high school, correct? So isn't it likely it takes him some time to get acquainted to WR?
Only in his senior year he played qb
+1 good to know
I tend to agree with LA regarding Payoute. Really high ceiling from an athletic standpoint, but he doesn't have great ball skills (check out his film). Sometimes kids pick up on that and sometimes they do not. I hope he does!
So what I keep hearing is HS QB, great athlete, can't catch, 6'3". Kam Chancellor 2.0???
He's thin, never going to have Kam's build.
If you ain't first in recruiting classes, yer last! /s
Well done, good breakdown of the new Hokies.
I look forward to seeing these dudes develop, and continue our cherished streaks as football program. We especially needed the depth at DT, some more DBs, and what looks like a very good HB in King.
Good stuff LA ! I think our OL has so much potential from this year and last years class. Excited to see King
So you think Mitchell is gone soon?
Or did I misunderstand the quip you made?
The coach or player and why?
LA said this about Brion Murray:
A final decision has not and will not be made until after the bowl game, but if a change is made, I'd be willing to bet it's at that spot.
Good list. The tier seems to split after #11. More projects and flawed prospects after that. Need to keep those 11 healthy and in school,get half of the lower tier to be something. And you get a good class.
Seems light in upside. Last year, we had QP, Dax and TT who look like potential all ACC guys. Less of that projection in this class.
If Hudson is as advertised I could see him working into that. The other one I would see potential for is a Keshawn King as a 2nd or 3rd team guy if he can command a lion's share of the carries. That said, if he is reliable and consistently a playmaker when it matters, I don't care about him making all-ACC type numbers.
I think any of the receivers we signed have the potential to make an all ACC team
For sure, I basing it off the thought that if we ever truly have the 6-8 man rotation we want they won't have the numbers.
I could see a handful of them being All ACC, but def have some quality receivers in this class. I think we got some solid DTs as well as OL. I think the staff did a good job in this cycle with filling depth needs, no complaints here (not implying you were). If we sign Asante he will be a heck of a player for us. I do agree with your top 11 assessment tho, my biggest concern is that the DTs excel quickly into contributors bc IMO that's what's standing between us and a good next few years; and a run game lol go Hokies
Agreed on the upside part of it. King, Payoute, and maybe Walker (or Barno if you reallyyyy want to stretch it) are really the only group that have a level of potential similar to someone like QP or BPT. A lot of the top guys like Robinson, Pinckney, Bowick, or Fuga are pretty easy to project and may be pretty close to their ceiling as football players, which is totally fine considering that they are very good already.
They are going to receive what should be better coaching, better training, and better work habits. You can't turn a 4.7 speed guy into 4.3 but you can teach them better technique, strength and execution. Their ceiling may not be as high, but I think their is always a lot of room to grow.
They will. I just think from an athletic, body type standpoint, those guys are a little more tapped out. Doesn't mean they won't be good players, but I think there's just a little smaller window of outcomes of what they could potentially turn into
I have a feeling there is a real gem in this class
Go out on a limb. Which one is it?
Can't give away all my #sauces
Man, I'm pulling for Ferguson simply because I wanna see those hits on Worsham Field
Yeah, hopefully the decision making concerns are coached out of him and he can contribute
LA, thanks for doing this writeup again, I am hoping guys like Gary and Hawkins didn't peak in early high school and one out of Kendricks and Pollard can contribute down the road so we don't have more wasted DT spots.
SUPER excited about King and hope he can put on 10 pounds of good muscle so he doesn't get bounced around like McClease. I think Hudson should be a high 4* recruit but probably didn't go to enough camps since he was doing track and field.
Also think Bowick should be a mid 4*, guy can flat out ball and if he was just a hair faster would be lethal. Pumped to see him, Grimz, Ellis, and Robinson in the slot over the next few years and hoping Ellis or Robinson can take over PR, were garbage their this year.
I agree about DE but think if we can get Tyler Baron (Woody's brother) next year that he could be a day 1 starter along with Garbutt and a more developed Proctor/Debose.
You think we can hold on for Asante as he makes a JJB-like ascent from last year? And I really hope we can land Nester, from a star perspective but could also be another starter at guard early on. Also would love nothing more than to take him from OSU/PSU, hate those guys.
I do. He doesn't seem like the kind of kid to get sold like JJB did. I think the Hokies being the first to offer truly means a lot to him. As always, I'm worried about PSU offering but I think he's closer to committing to VT now than JJB ever was.
From what I've heard and read that sounded like the case, glad we got in first and hopefully he signs in Feb. even with I'm sure many more offers to come and bump to high 3* status. Him and Nester would be amazing cherry on top gets to end the class, along with maybe Cunningham or another late addition.
Good thoughts. I agree with most of them. I wonder where you would put Carter? I'm actually not that high on him, though apparently the coaches are. I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world if he didn't end up signing and we give his spot to Kei'Trel Clark, CB from Manchester (teammates with Pritchard). A little on the small side but more of a true corner and dynamic punt returner.
Another guy I'm really interested in is the DT PWO we got, Maxx Philpott. He plays low level competition but his tape is really impressive, good size, quick first step, and strong as an ox (state champion wrestler who apparently pinned Hanson in 15 seconds). Can't wait to see if he can earn a scholarship and become a contributor.
Really hope King can block and hold on to the ball, he has everything else we need in a RB. Love Fuga and Crawford. Not sure where Barno is going to play, a little worried he never finds a spot. Little higher on Hanson, think he'll be a starting guard some day. LOVED Nyquee's sophomore tape, hasn't impressed me much since then. Agree on Ferguson. If we land Asante I wonder if we send Ferguson to DE, I think he could get big enough, but still wish we took a DE, I share your worry about the future of that position.
Probably would put Carter between Hanson and Nyquee. I LOVE Clark. Really hope we offer him but I don't see it unless Carter can't figure his stuff out.
I really like this guy a lot. Watching his film I was struck by how difficult it must be for the coaches to decide who to offer. Me: offer the damn guy. Them: there is literally like a thousand other guys we are also looking at.......
The DT and DE spots are going to have to be recruited very hard over the next two seasons. I think we filled the gaps at DT this year, but I think the quality could improve. I am comfortable with talent level at DE right now, but we need to plug in two solid contributors or guys that can push the starters as rFr next year as we look to graduate most of our current DE roster in 2020.
No one mentioned it but it's Nick Gallo, Eric was his older bro the center
Good catch and edited. Thanks.
If JR Walker has the range to play FS then that is very exciting because I feel good about him playing in the alley against the run. I would also be excited about him playing Nickelwhip if FS isn't his best fit.
King (listed as .8925 3 star) is really I hidden gem in my opinion. the fact that he didn't have more offers is crazy to me. Marcus Crowley a 3 star composit ranking .8883 from trinity Christian (Isaiah fords high school, Jacksonville FL) is an ohio state commit at RB and is NO WHERE near on the level on king in terms of production, skill is listed as the 26th RB overall and 54th player in florida both well below king but because of his school is getting a lot more love. (we also offered him). The more I hear about king and talk to people around here he really is that real deal. They lost their best offensive linemen (a UCF commit) to the school I coach at and I don't know if another linemen on that oakleaf team had an offer. He was essentially running behind a group of Spanish bull fighters. King was also not blessed with a great OC at oakleaf as I heard a lot of complaints about the way they used him and how they ran into a stacked box most of the year and when it wasn't stacked they would get to cute. I just think this kid is something special. ive gotten the chance to talk to him a little and some of the people close to him and while its extreamly hard for me to compare anyone to DW4, I think King has that kind of explosiveness as an RB (maybe lacking the tackle breaking balance Wilson had and the top end speed youd see on a DW kick return but that's it IMO) Im rambling now but man. We are in for a treat with this kid. also don't expect to hear any kind of off field stuff from him. Very Very humble kid. fits well into the VT model. Hes on a mission and is very focused.
Not sure if this will make you feel better or worse, but based on 247 he got that 4 star and he received 25 offers. So he's more of a slightly polished diamond now.
Spanish bull fighters 🤣
Well at least he'll fit right in when he gets to tech..*ducks*
It took me like 9 hours to figure out BPT = Big Play Tre
Never would've gotten that if you didn't say this.
I was reading-this-comment years old when I learned that.
Question for LA, who do you think the better prospect is, Baptiste last year or Asante this year?
depends where asante signs
/s
Phew that's a tough one. Gun to my head, I guess I would say that Asante is a safer bet to have a better career, so I suppose that makes him the better prospect. JJB has a higher ceiling and has the potential to be very, very good.
Based on fit and need though, I would have taken JJB for VT.
First post. I made an excel sheet with my (limited) understanding of how the depth chart will shake out in 2019. But though I've read for years, I never made an account, so I can't post a thread for this. So, here it is in text form (until I can figure out how to put the excel version in.
WR
Retain
Damon Hazelton (rJr) (3*)
Hezekiah Grimsley (Jr) (3*)
Eric Kumah (Jr) (3*)
Phil Patterson (JR) (3*)
Darryle Simmons (rF) (4*)
Tre Turner (So) (4*)
Dejuan Ellis (rF) (3*)
Sam Denmark (rJr) (3*)
Lose
Sean Savory (JR) - quitter(3*)
Signed
Tayvion Robinson (4*)
Jacob Pickney (4*)
Jaden Payoute (4*)
Elija Bowick (3*)
Analysis
-Lost (1) 3* and gained (3) 4*s and another 3*? This is amazing!!
Savoy isn't a quitter, he made a decision that is best for him. Transferring isn't quitting.
Sometimes quitting is the best decision. But factually, he quit. Literally he walked into an office and said something analogous to 'I quit'.
I don't shame him for that. Just being factual.
do you call moving from one company to another company to take a promotion "a career move" or "quitting"?
Yeah there are 100 different ways to put that label to make it look half respectable. Like "Transferred" or no label at all. It looks like you're shaming them, you don't categorize any other player we're losing this year except the couple that transferred.
There is a difference between calling someone a transfer vs a "quitter", and let's not pretend that there isn't a stigma attached to the latter.
Beginning to be a stigma for the former.
no its not, most people view transfers as a way for players to control their futures in a way they see fit
And some people, in my opinion a growing number, view it as quitting the team you committed to. I think there are very few scenarios where transferring isn't quitting. My opinion. I want to transfer because I don't play enough/anymore is pretty close to quitting in my book. I also do not think it is analogous to changing jobs as mentioned somewhere else in this thread.
And in my opinion, you're wrong. I would argue that, if anything, the last few years have seen a growing shift in perception that college sports are inherently exploitative of the student athletes and that returning some power to the players is a good thing.
Or did Fuente call Savoy into his office and say something analogous to "look, you're not getting much more play time in your career, if you're goal is to be an NCAA starter, you should think about going elsewhere." By your measure, Fuente/Corny/Wiggins are also 'quitters.'
Regardless, the word 'quitter' has a negative connotation, associated with someone who stopped trying due to inability to handle pressure and/or lack of determination. Savoy has been through a lot (on and off the field) and has been a great representative of our program. I think it's disrespectful to label him so negatively. He's a transfer exploring other options.
Personally, I think he quit on this season. He could have announced his transfer at the end of the regular season.
I do not think transferring is quitting at all. He made the decision that was best for him. I just don't like guys doing it during the season. It is a distraction for the guys that are on the team.
No inside information, but I don't think he just broke it to the coaches randomly one weekend. Typically when things like this happen, it's part of an ongoing conversation. I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff was driving the discussion, not Savoy.
Players putting their name in the transfer database allows other schools to start recruiting them. The sooner you know that is your route, the better it is to make it official. You don't waste practice reps for other players who will be staying in that program, you give yourself a longer time to be recruited again and sign for spring semester.
These are kids making decisions for their own futures. Transferring is not quitting on us, it is looking for a better opportunity for themselves. I hope nothing but the best for any player that transfers to or from VT.
Sam Denmark is (still) around (again)?
Yep was just doing the Christmas sing along rounds with other players at the local schools.
TKP: FOX, FULLWOOD, DENMARK ALL PARTICIPATED IN "SENIOR DAY" CEREMONY
You left out Kaleb Smith, he redshirted this last year. He is a walk on for us but had an offer from Wake Forest. I have no doubt he gets put on scholarship and will turn heads. Another 6'2 WR for the Hokies!
Yeah. I left off a bunch of walkons. But I love walkons! Thought it would be too cluttered to include them. But here's the WR list:
Corey Thomas (Jr)
Tre Coghill (rSo)
KalebSmith (rF)
Sean Daniel (rSr)
Tink Boyd (rF)
Travis Williams (rF)
Nick Reisen Weaver (rSo)
Devin Dews (rF)
Nicolas Conforti (rSo)
Jacob Van Landingham (rF)
Justin Hairston (rSo)
Conforti was playing RB in the spring game.
Going to be tough to put 12 receivers on the field at the same time, but I'm pretty sure if we could do it, someone would be open.
11 should be good. 12 wont work.
I mean the redskins did win that game so...
except its the 49ers?
Makes it all the more impressive.
here you gotta team that isn't even playing going against a team with 12 guys on the field going against a team on defense with 11 guys and the team that isn't there wins the game! (you have to read that in your own john madden voice)
LOL take your leg
You are assuming the other team doesn't have 12 guys rushing the quarterback and 12 guys covering the receivers.
As far as that goes, how many of our receivers could throw the ball well enough to hit an open guy (one wearing our uniform). In the last four years, the results have been mixed with a few completed passes but a lot of misses.
[p.s.: I know you were being sarcastic suggesting 12 receivers on the field at one time. Although with ACC refs some team might get away with it playing against us.]
according to the last time EA sports came out with a NCAA game. ALL of them.
OL
Retain
Christian Darrisaw (So) (2*)
Patrick Kearns (rJr) (3*)
Luke Tenuta (rF) (3*)
Walker Culver (rF) (3*)
Leticus Smith (rSo) (3*)
Zachariah Hoyt (r JR) (2*)
Aiden Brown (rSo) (3*)
Silias Dzansi (rSo) (2*)
Joe Kane (rFr) (3*)
Tyrell Smith (rSr) (2*)
Austin Cannon (rJr)
TJ Jackson (rJr) (2*)
John Harris (rF) (3*)
Lose
Kyle Chung (3*)
Braxton Pfaff (3*)
Yosuah Nijman (3*)
D'Andre Plantin (Sr) - quitter (3*)
Signed
William Pritchard (3*)
Bryan Hudson (4*)
Jesse Hanson (3*)
Analysis
-Lost (4) 3* and gained (2) 3*s and another 4* This is great! Especially since several of our existing 2*s are starters. That makes me think the staff is looking for specifics that serve them, not rating agencies.
Would love to get another highly-rated OL to close out the cycle, though.
I heard Aiden Brown is a DT now.
What is the deal with Patrick Kearns?
yeah, that "retain" category may be a bit early.
QB
Retain (we will see)
Ryan Willis (rSR) (3*)
Josh Jackson (rSo* - medical redshirt?) (3*)
Hendon Hooker (rSo) (4*)
Quincy (rF) (4*)
Analysis - feels like this story isn't written yet. Maybe we add another signal caller. Or, if we do add one, does that signal one is leaving or changing positions?
Or, if we do add one, does that signal one is
leaving or changing positionsquitting?/s FTFY
I love you guys!
I love you too man!
RB
Retain
DeShawn McClease (rJr) (3*)
Terius Wheatly (rSo) (3*)
Jalen Holston (rJr) (3*)
Coleman Fox (rSr) (2*)
Caleb Steward (rF) (3*)
Cole Beck (rF) (3*)
Lose
Steven Peoples (Our last vestige of the VT walk-on to starter (and hopefully to pro) legacy!)
Signed
Tahj Gary (3*)
Keshawn King (4*)
Analysis: I'll miss watching the human bowling ball. He just loved delivering punishment in a way that I haven't seen since Suggs and Oxendine. But getting a 3 & 4* shows us going in the right direction.
Holston is the same class as Wheatley so he's either a Jr or if he didnt play enough this year then he'll redshirst and be a rSo
Yeah Holston played as a true freshman, Wheatley did not
TE
Retain
Dalton Keene (jr)(3*)
Chris Cunningham (Sr)(3*)
Drake Deiulis (rSo)(3*)
James Mitchell (rF) (4*)
Lose
NA
Signed
Nick Gallo (3*)
Analysis: Seems par for the course here. I've liked how Dalton, Chris, and Drake have played given their opportunities. Exciting to know there's a 4* waiting in the wings and another 3* to push him.
Anyhow, if this was seen as hijacking the thread, I apologize. I wanted to take LAHokies write up and add some more context for myself and thought others would appreciate. If this is well-received, I'll add the defense. If not, well, apologies to the internet!
Well done. Keep it coming! I legged all your posts.
More legs...
And more legs...
All the legs for you, sir!
the combination of legs in this post is intriguing.
The Rule of French- if you never expect a freshman to play right away, you will never be disappointed.
I am a bit lukewarm on this class. I am not a believer in JUCOs, so that drains my logic. Crawford needs a good spring workout. I think Fuga can contribute, but he plays a little tall for my liking. Expecting a freshman DT to play right away is really unfair for that kid. Give him two years and then make a judgement. The other two true freshman DL... eh? I was crushed when Adarious Jones picked A&M. He was what they needed.
I like Hudson and think he can play as a R-FR. I do not feel that he is a tackle- I think you roll with him and Harris at guard. I don't know where Harris plays next year, but he will start at one of the guard spots or center, depending on how Vice moves pieces around with Hoyt, Tyrell Smith, and Lecitus Smith. Lecitus, frankly, stunk during his late season starting cameo, which opens a window for Harris beyond just right guard. Hanson is a longer term project. I love his strength and attitude. His feet are a little worrisome. He is a plant guy, not a chop guy and that doesn't project as well in this system. I'd love him on the 1996 VT OL.
The best group are the WRs. Robinson is a spectacular athlete. Payoute has Tre Turner level athleticism, even though I don't think he is nearly as polished as Turner was at the same age. He is more physically developed than Turner.
I still need to watch film on several guys (Hawkins in particular.) But, at the high need spots, I am kind of blah here. I really wish they could have held on to Sainstril. He would have been a difference maker at corner.
I will have detailed film review breakdowns on recruits after the holidays.
So we should all be asking for TKPC subscriptions for Xmas?
Yes
This is kind of where I am too... It seems to me that other than King, the best players we are bringing in are at positions of relative strength.
Also, I am not nearly as high on Tayvion as most are and I feel like we are gonna be in a really tight spot at CB and DE in the future.
If you want to get your hopes up really high before they are eventually dashed, we are in the mix for a solid 4* 2020 corner and possibly the favorite for TWO 5* corners in 2021.
Realism at its finest here.
I like Tavion a ton. Even more if Ellis moves to corner.
Doubt Ellis makes that move
Sounds like you and I are on the same page with a lot of this excluding the JUCO's. I'm a big fan of taken some every year as needed. I think the stigma around JUCO's these days as it relates to VT is carried over from years past. I think a lot of them are hard workers and generally have a good attitude, and if they don't work out, then they cycle out pretty quickly. I'm a much bigger fan of taking someone like Crawford who you know what you're getting with than a project like Barno.
I love the tough-love here. Most sites (for all schools) are spinning their class as if they just signed the next NC squad - so I appreciate the French take of "let's be real for a sec".
Hope this doesn't come off snarky/sarcastic (not the intent), but when was the last class we signed that you were really excited about on signing day? Not to repeat every coach ever, but this definitely feels like a class that address every immediate need (except DE I guess), but also provides some solid depth.
I think the issue is that we got some players at positions of need but not necessarily difference makers. Yes, we had to get bodies at DT, but not sure we have long-term bell cows. CB and DE are the new DT, and DT still needs a major overhaul.
We are in good shape along the interior OL, QB, and WR, and hopefully have a good RB now. We have good starters at OT but not great depth.
On Defense, we are really lacking on the DL - both DT and DE. LBs look good. We have some good S/Whip prospects but we really need some quality CBs.
How did we get here? Not long ago, we were awful along the OL and at WR. Now, those are our deepest and most talented units. Meanwhile, we used to have elite CBs and dynamic edge rushers and now, we barely have enough bodies for those positions.
I really think these concerns are getting blown out of proportion. Right now at DE we have five underclassmen and eight players total. Possibly nine if Barno moves there. There are plenty of bodies, just no proven talent because it is a very young group, but the upside at DE is huge with all the young guys getting experience and a couple of blue-chippers mixed in. Likewise with CB, where with this latest class we will have possibly 7 (!) underclassmen with 12 players total for only two starting positions. We will likely be moving some of these guys to S/WR because of the logjam. Again, tons of bodies, it just feels like we have no one there because we were so young last year.
I think Crawford can be serviceable immediately. I think Fuga can be decent long term. However, knowing they needed difference makers in the last two classes (if not Settle talent, Walker talent), and I didn't see Goode or this group reaching that threshold, I am concerned. I will be thrilled if I am wrong, but I think my track record on DL evals has been pretty good.
I have a much tougher time with assessing corners. My hesitancy is much more fixated on the loss of Sainstril.
Take my eval skills FWIW, but I'm lukewarm on the DBs in this class as pure corners. That said, I saw Terrell Edmunds as a freshman during the spring and was thoroughly unimpressed, and we all know how he turned out.
Definitely isn't a Facyson in this group as far as I can tell.
I'm hoping for Miles Brooks in 2020.
honestly...i would be fine with a barry booker or carlton powell in this class...if our secondary is good enough...the DL will look better anyway..
The paper up here is saying that Sainstril will start out at WR for MI.
IIRC, that's part of the reason he flipped. Over the summer there was buzz he wanted to play WR and our coaches wanted him at CB
If that's the case not a lot the staff can do unless we want them to just flat out lie. I get there are players the coaches know will end up in a different position than they are recruited for but from reading a lot of comments from recruits this staff is open about it and/or will at least give a kid a shot to show what he has at that other position.
Seems to be going well, so here's the defense:
DE
Retain
Emmanuel Belmar (rJR) (3*)
Houshun Gaines (rSR) *injured (3*)
Ty Garbutt (rSo) (4*)
Zion Debose (rSo) (4*)
Eli Adams (rF) (3*)
Nathan Proctor (rJr) (4*)
Jaevon Becton (rF) (3*)
Jimmie Taylor (rJr) (3*)
Lose
Trevon Hill - 3 * -
Signed
Nick Gallo (3*)
Analysis: Trevon was starting to outplay his ranking. Looking forward to seeing if Ty, Zion, and Nathan can live up to theirs.
Nick Gallo is a TE, not a DE
Really hope we can see those ends take the next step and start to become disruptive. I also hope we can start getting a rotation going...we really haven't had a good sized DE since Ekanem left(Vinny kinda went back and forth between DE and DT)
Hopefully Becton is not another Jarontay Jones
DT
Retain
Jarrod Hewitt (rJR)(3*)
Robert Porcher (rSo)(3*)
Xavier Burke (rSr)(3*)
Darius Fulwood (rSr)(3*)
Clay Dean (rJr) (3*)
Gideon Driscoll (rF)(0*)
Lose
Vinnie Mihota (4*)
Ricky Walker (4*)
Signed
Mario Kendricks (3*)
Dashawn Crawford (3*)
Norrel Pollard (3*)
Josh Fuga (2*)
Analysis: Stars from recruiting services are certainly not the be-all, end-all in evaluations. Here I mean to only use them directionally. When you put the entire depth chart into a color-coded excel, I get a warmer, fuzzier feeling than when I read about all of the recruiting piecemeal.
From that perspective, not feeling warm and fuzzy about losing (2) 4* - even if Vinnie played a deal of DE and replacing with (3) 3* and (1) 2*. Settle made the right choice to go early given the chance for injury but he could have been a legend. I wonder how quickly his jersey would have been retired had he stayed.
What's a "Gideon Driscoll?"
Jeff driskels cousin?
The biggest question for me is at the QB spot. If we can consistently get the ball into the hands of our playmakers, the offense should be really good.
Linebackers
I'm just putting all 3 roles into one post here. I'm concious of how little I know on who fits what role best and look forward to the comments of who can / should go where. Perhaps whip should be in with the secondary?
Retain
Whip
Khalil Ladler (rJr) (4*)
Devon Hunter (Jr) (4*)
DJ Crossen (So) (3*)
MLB
Rayshard Ashby (JR) (3*)
Jaylen Griffin (rSo) (3*)
Daniel Griffith (rJr) (0*)
Zach Treser (rSr) (0*)
OLB
Dylan Rivers (JR)(4*)
Dax Hollifield (So)(4*)
Alan Tisdale (rF*)(3*)
Kesohn Artis (rF)(4*)
Lose
Rico Kearny (rSo) (3*) -
Signed
Amare Barno (3*) - I've heard talk on the forums that perhaps he's really a DE. Yet another that can be adjusted on the chart once spring ball begins.
Analysis:
Whip looks to be in great shape. Interested to see where / how Devon Hunter contributes.
MLB lost a 3*, gained a 3*. I don't remember seeing or hearing anything about the 0*s Griffith and Treser. Ashby looks to have the position on lock down. Hopefully we are building great depth there.
OLB looks to be an embarrasment of riches. (3) 4* all together in one position group. I understand why people are talking about shuffling the LBs around a bit. Hope Artis heals well and comes back stronger than ever.
I wonder if our special teams play has been bolstered these last few years by adding all of this quality LB depth? Not so long ago our LB depth chart looked pretty sad from a rankings perspective.
Won't Hunter be taking a RS this year and will be a rSo next season?
I was about to say that... this is correct assuming they don't play him in bowl game.
CB
Retain
Caleb Farley (rSo) (3*)
Jeremy Webb (Jr*) - Heal up! (4*)
Jovann Quillen (Sr) (3*)
Bryce Watts (Jr)(3*)
Nadir Thompson (rF) (3*)
Jermaine Waller (S)(3*)
Armani Chatman (rF) (3*)
Brady Parcell (rSr) (0*)
Hunter Green (rF) (0*)
Lose
NA
Signed
Nyquee Hawkins (CB / S) (4*)
Brion Murray (CB) (0*)
Jahad Carter (Ath: WR/CB) (3*)
Analysis:
Good to get a 4* back into the secondary. I can see why so many other teams claim the title DBU - the days of Macho, DeAngelo, All the Fullers, et al are long gone.
2 DB's from last years defense are on An nfl active roster.
3 actually, Adonis, Stroman, and Terrell
4 actually I believe, Faycson on the Chargers
Damn I quickly forget Facyson was on last year's team
5 if you count Reavis on the Jags because he should have been in Blacksburg.
Yes. My thoughts were that this particular cupboard needs to be restocked in a way we haven't seen before.
Where as in Beamer's years we were a DBU and trending towards QBU & RBU... perhaps in Fuente's years we are a WRU and LBU.
QBU?
That would be a stretch even for @VT_Football
Yeah. That's probably personal bias. But there's not really a QBU out there, is there? (Edit: maybe Oklahoma, USC?)
I've been happy over the years with Druck, Vick, Randall, Tyrod, Logan, Brewer, Jerod, JJ, and even the competition that could come this spring.
There's a lot of other programs that haven't had that level of talent or grit or leadership (different combos for each player). I'm grateful we have.
I'd say tech has as good an argument as anyone. In one season Tyrod, Vick and Logan Thomas all made throws. Slight /s
would you mind going back and editing your posts based on the feedback on each of them? For example you have a bunch of people as retain/returning who are leaving the team/graduating (like Denmark, Fox, Fullwood) and some folks at the wrong position. (inc Gallo as DE instead of TE)
also it would be nice to ID the walk-ons as such if you're going to include them.
thx
That's the plan. Now that I've got enough legs I think I can make my own post.
Just need to learn how to make excel-like charts and I'll be set.
I've heard that claim from NCSU folks and, honestly, they have a legitimate stake at the title in the window of the last decade or so.
Good point. Just a few years ago the had nearly 10% of the starting nfl qbs in Wilson, Glennon, and Rivers.
As much as it physically pains me to type this Penn State has been LBU for some time now
Jahad Carter isn't signing during the early period
FS & Rover
Retain
FS
Divine Deablo (rJR) (3*)
Tyree Rodgers (rJR) (3*)
Adam Lytle (rF) (0*)
Rov
Reggie Floyd (Sr) (3*)
Chamarri Conner (So) (3*)
Nasir Peoples (rF) (3*)
Lose
NA
Signed
Dean Ferguson (S) (3*)
JR Walker (Ath/S) (4*)
Analysis:
Similar to CB, the power recruiting days here are long gone. Good to get a 4* back into the group.
Dean Ferguson is listed at LB on hokiesports
Peoples played at free, and I expect that Crossen will be there as well.
Kicking, Punting
Retain
P Oscar Bradburn (Jr)
PK Brian Johnson (rJR)
Lose
NA
Signed
NA
Analysis:
Glad we have production returning. Don't mean to disrespect the holders and long snappers, just not finding a lot of * info on them. Hopefully the kicking game leads to more conversions next year with another off season of practice.
Stupid question: How are kids with a .8977 rating on 247, equate to a 4 star player? I know the threshold for a 4 star is .90, do they just round up?
Not a stupid question but they consider. 89 and above to be a 4 star
For some reason I thought it started at .90
.890 vs .891
Confusing, but 247 has their own rankings. The linked info is only true for 247's own rankings.
The Composite is run by 247 as well. This is generally the number you see thrown around; not 247's own rating.
They average all the major recruiting services rankings.
The composite has a separate scale. Within the past few years, that scale has been:
98.35 = *****
89.01 = ****
79.70 = ***
<79.7 = **
This scale is subject to change based on the recruiting services in the average (composite) each year. It's meant to average out where each service draws their "line" when all the ratings are averaged.
I disagree on Gary. He'll play at 5'9 220... Think People's size, with better lateral quickness, speed and vision. He and King great one two punch
Anyone kind of feel like Asante is the Unicorn of the group? Because he was so underrated, and is very close to the commitment, but his film still looks like that of a 4 or 5 star?
All men should know about "unicorns" and how they don't exist...
With you on Payoute. I don't see the acclaimed speed in the tape. Interested to watch him at the Army All American Bowl
I didn't see him sprint at all, but on the flip side...he ran by people at like 85%..
I think he knew that he could outrun people at 85% at the high school level. We will see his full speed when hes playing against, FBS football
I know some people are pretty "meh" about this class, but I think that's largely because this class lacks star power. If you take a step back and look at who we offered, the staff landed either their #1 or #2 (realistic) options at almost all positions.
Offense:
QB: N/A
RB: #2 option who most are still very excited about
WR: #1 option. Robinson and Pinckney were identified early and focussed on heavily. Payoute is an added bonus.
OT: N/A. Not sure if the staff wanted to take an OT in this class other than Carrol.
OG: #1 realistic option was Hudson. Hanson is an added benefit.
C: #2 option? Pritchard. Not really sure who we targeted as a center other than him but I'm not sure.
TE: #1 realistic option was Gallo all along.
Defense:
DT: #2 options. As far as I can tell we passed on Smiley and Ellies even when Adarious Jones went to aTm. Staff seemed to move to Kendricks and Pollard almost immediately. Added Fuga and Crawford late for a more immediate impact due to depth. Landing Figuera (sp?) would have been great.
DE: N/A. Never seemed to pursue anyone other than Savion.
Mike: N/A
LB: Missed on Brandon Smith and Deng, but hopefully the staff can land Asante.
CB: Not really sure how we faired here. We identified Carter and Sainristil early. Lost Sainristil, but we took a huge DB class last year. Also, I think the staff was feeding Cam'Ron Kelly a big pile of shit on being a CB at VT.
FS: #1 realistic option had to be JR Walker but I'm not sure. Feel good about this position regardless.
ROV: N/A. Huge DB class was taken last year.
Nickel: N/A. Again, huge DB class was taken last year.
I had forgotten about Brandon Smith... That kid is a monster.
Yes he is but he was PSU almost out the gate
I think missing Savion to NCSU is a really big deal. Add to that, they have been pulling in quite the haul on the DL for the last couple of cycles. Doren might only be an average coach, but he is beating us on the recruiting trail at some key spots.
They lost a few key pieces of their coaching staff be interesting to see how he does next two years.
They have had a lot of high profile DL get drafted high in the past couple of years too.
NCSU has always punched above their weight on the DL - that is nothing new for them. They are kinda like us (traditionally) with DBs at the DL.
DT was plan #6,7, 8. Missed out on Jones, Savion Jackson, Josh Harris, Logan Cash, Figueroa, etc.
CB was a total and complete miss on all top options other than Nyquee.
What are considered "misses" to you. You obviously have insider knowledge, but kids going to Clemson, USC, A&M, etc over VT isn't really unexpected.
Is a "miss" simply not signing them, or is there legit reason to believe they should have been signed, but we screwed up?
I would say a Virginia kid going to ATM is definitely a huge unexpected miss.
Texas A&M a school in the SEC who regularly gets top 15 classes, has a brand new top tier coach and brings in along with Texas the highest money each each and has one of the largest sports budgets in college sports? Really?
A 3* DT from VA whose only "big" offers were VT and ATM... I'm sorry, but if it isn't a major disappointment that we can't keep him here I don't know what is. I get Devyn Ford, and the whole slew of other Blue Chip recruits who do this, but not recruits like this.
He went to the HS that hates us, right?
parsing connotation of "missed on" vs "recruiting miss" is splitting hairs, but when I read the two, i'm not sure they're perfectly interchangeable
I think a miss is any prospect that we had a reasonable chance with who is high on our board. Now losing someone to Alabama isn't as "big" of a miss from a us vs. them perspective. I would consider losing Savion Jackson to NC State, Rick Sandidge to South Carolina, and Alim McNeill to NC State to be big misses. Those were guys we desperately wanted and couldn't snag from reasonably similar competitors.
I would consider losing a 3* recruit like Logan Cash who could have been great for us, but will likely never play considerable snaps for Clemson a miss as well.
this is a fair assessment. I tend to agree with this.
Especially because McNeil committed to the coaches early on on a visit but wanted to go home and talk to his parents first before he announced. They wanted him to wait and the rest is history.
We also really messed the Cash recruitment up. Showed a ton of interest but were very hesitant to pull the trigger on an offer. Waited until everyone else got involved and didn't differentiate ourselves from the pack. If we had offered early on, then it might've been a different story. He was very into VT before Clemson and OSU came along.
I mentioned Cash above, but we weirdly kind of backed off Savion for a month or so in February/March and then pressed again later in the spring until he committed to State. Not sure if anything would have been different if we had pressed the whole time, but still weird nonetheless.
Yeah remember seeing Coach Fu sitting with him at a bball game and thinking he could be a cornerstone piece of the class along with Ford. But alas here we are.
My mistake then. I agree that DT was by far the most disappointing spot in this class given our need. Honestly, 2017 was the year to address the DT situation instead of this year, yet we only took 1 true DT last year and we saw how that worked out. It was obvious just looking at the roster
This next recruiting class will be Fuente's 3rd true class. Everyone has said it may take this long to establish those relationships and such. I disagree that it should take that long, but regardless, let's see if all that work finally materializes into top CB, DE, and DT recruits.
About Pritchard:
Nasty as Jake Grove? I hope so!
Well hopefully the coaches are learning from their mistakes, and will do better these coming years
Trey Edmunds. Treeeeey Edmundsssss
Pretty solid comparison actually.
I'm getting very uncomfortable with the continued use of juco. Kicking the can down the road only gets you so far. I hope this trend ends.
Counterpoint, we are fielding a team that has underclassmen everywhere. Creating depth with players that come in with experience and are expected to exit soon is not only smart but impressive that it was accomplished.
Bad take IMO. It's not kicking the cab down the road. It's identifying a problem with your current team and addressing it. If we were kicking the can down the road this year in regards to DT, would we have taken 3 high school players at the position?
A couple JUCO's a year is fine; it adds immediate depth.
As long as we don't come close to a place where we can't field a full team due to there being more than 25 open scholarships (there's a great article on The Athletic about how Charlie Weis made this mistake at Kansas), we'll be okay.
In terms of the overall talent level, I think this class is virtually the same as last year.
I think Bowick and Pinckney will play immediately at WR. Robinson is my favorite in the group based on film, with Hudson very close. But that could change if we sign Asante...I'm a fan.
Still seem to be signing quite a few skill position tweeners...at least 4 thus far for 2019 after about the same # last year. I suppose its a necessary measure to restock a depleted roster but I'll be concerned if we do it again next year...
LAHokie, I've read some great stuff on Maxx Philpott? Where would you slot him amongst the commits/signees?
Also, will you do another one to include Asante, Nester, Kadum, and Cunningham?
Don't know a lot about him, but I know the 247 guys are really high on him, as well as some people that are very involved in prep football down in that area. But at the end of the day, he's still a walk-on, so I wouldn't expect too much.
And sure, I can update this after Wednesday with whoever we sign.