It is now clear what Loeffler can and cannot expect out of Logan Thomas. Statistically, Thomas is tracking similarly to last year. His completion rate has moved from 51% to 55%. Not good. (Only Georgia Tech has a lower completion rate in the ACC.) Through eight games, Thomas has ten picks, which is also one of the worst in the ACC. Adjusted QBR is 54.3 this year (which is also not good), compared to a horrid 43.4 last year.
Loeffler now faces the reality that Thomas is not going to improve appreciably. Loefflers honeymoon is also coming to a close. So what will Loeffler do? My prediction: Loeffler will do nothing. Look at his comments after the game: Today our kids learned how important the details are. Lining up incorrectly, penalties and turnovers did it to us. Say what? Details? The offense just got humiliated, and he makes the political understatement of the century. So for all of you out there wanting a shake up on offense: it aint gonna happen.
Read between the lines. The words of Loeffler after the game are not the words of an OC who urgently needs to right the ship. No urgency, no need fix it now. Not gonna happen. Not gonna go there. The words of Loeffler are the words of an OC who is going to ride out the season, blame the past for current woes, and wait until next year.
Not sure if Beamer is giving Loeffler a pass this year. Sure looks that way. And no doubt the urgency to right the ship on offense just simply is not there.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
AN UPDATE AND CLARIFICATION ---
Thanks for the comments. Let me provide some clarity: top programs acknowledge their deficiencies and vow to fix them. They have confidence in their coaches and players to do so. Loeffler talked this way last summer, vowing to fix both the mechanics and on-field decision-making of Logan Thomas.
That talk by Loeffler is gone. He now says nothing specific just the need to pay attention to details and work harder. This change in tone indicates that Loeffler has done all he can; what you see with the offense now is what will remain. I am not faulting Loeffler. He has done the best he can with what has been given to him.
Secondly, by giving him a pass it appears that Beamer has also implicitly lowered his expectations for this offense. But Beamer is less vocal so this issue is harder to read.
My point is this: the confident talk by the OC is over. The implicit message is they have done all they can for now. So for those looking for big change and big improvements in this offense lower your expectations. The rest of the season is going to be an offensive slog.
Comments
You mean details like a receiver staying set before the snap?
The offense didn't get humiliated. The offensive line had their best game of the season. Trey Edmunds was effective running the ball. Several receivers made nice plays, and the play design was getting them open in the second half.
Thomas had a bad game, and a couple of times where the receivers got their hands on the ball, they didn't hold on. Loeffler is correct. Those mental errors (progressions, alignments, making a catch in traffic, game management) cost them a game where physically the Hokie offense dominated Duke. He is dead on.
I do not disagree with Loeffler. He is doing the best he can. My point is that he talked about sizably improving the offensive effort earlier in the season; that talk is gone. Telling guys to stop making mistakes is obvious. His signal now is that they have gone as far as they can go with this talent-pool and it is just going to be a nitty-gritty slog on offense for the rest of the season.
Turkey leg for expressing your opinion
What exactly do you expect him to do, kick everyone off the team and round up a bunch of students to put on the pads next week? About the only real option he has is to bench Logan and put in Leal. Whether you like it or not Logan is both our most clutch player on offense as well as the biggest liability.
in regards to Loeffler, it's not a lack of urgency, it's accepting the reality of your situation. The talent we have is not going to change. He has to coach them to the best their ability.
French has said many times that the offense would take MULTIPLE seasons to fix due to the recruiting misses/sins of the past. Even though the results are disappointing, I am happy that our offense has a firm direction for the future.
And the notion of Beamer "giving him a pass" are laughable. He hired Loeffler to improve the offense, and Frank is smart enough to realize that's not going to happen overnight based on how far behind we are talent-wise.
As a sanity check, name one offensive player not named Logan Thomas that can be counted on to make plays.
I'm not sure but the initials SR keep beating me in the forehead from the inside.
Scot Roeffrer?
Think fullback
yeah i know but I thought Scot Roeffrer was funny...I guess I'm alone on that one. My sense of humor is a little strange and easily gets lost on people..even close friends and family don't come along with me on every joke.
Logan is going to bounce back and have a stellar game Saturday. I wish he was more consistent.
I'd like to see the pic of the Bud Foster death stare at Loeffler yesterday for coaches meeting...
Good attempt, go home, try again.
Not tryin to be a jerk, but this post sums up just about everything that is wrong with fans' perspective of Hokie football. What do you expect? As has been said time and time again, Loeffler & co. are trying to fit a bunch of square pegs into round holes. There's only so much he can do. When in that situation, you control what you can control. That's focus, execution, lining up correctly, doing little things (no-talent things, as Loeffler likes to call them, which is one of the most accurate football terms ever created) correctly. Yes, Beamer is giving Loeffler a pass, as should the rest of Hokie Nation. Not just for this year, but at least through next year and into 2015. He's playing a heck of a lot of youth that he didn't recruit, and the older guys either aren't a great fit for his system, are limited talent-wise, or a combination of both. What we ARE seeing is intelligent route design in the passing game, and a systematic approach to offensive game-planning. Are there things we'd like to see differently? Maybe. But still, he's using certain plays and formations to set up other plays. That in itself is the mark of a competent OC. Whether he can produce with his own recruits in a couple years will determine whether or not he's an elite OC or merely competent.
THIS
and competent is better than what we had....I will admit that I still see some questionable calls from time to time. But based on the film reviews I've read on here, we're trending in the right direction and the play calling makes sense for the most part. I'm not going to let myself get concerned with the coaching until Loeffler has a chance to coach his own types of players for a couple of years. If we're still near the 100's offensively in 2016 then I think we'd be justified in our concerns
Yes.
I don't get the expectation of a Mercedes ride when all we have is Kia parts.
Are they Kia parts? I was under the understanding that we had some Kia parts, a few fiat parts, some doors of a daewoo, those wheels that Hyundais come with, and a Bentley hood ornament.
That's great and all; but we really need a flux capacitor for this makeshift DeLorean. There's no other way to travel back in time and convince Mr. and Mrs. Fuller to have more kids.
I think the car you were looking for is the Yugo....
What worries me is that last year he was playing with a team with the talent level of an 8th ranked team in the country (currently). He posted a 3-8 record with that talent. I understand that he didn't recruit those players, but great coaches find a way to win, especially if your offense is supposedly a flexible 'multiple' one that changes based on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing defense.
The one quote by Beamer regarding the hire of Loeffler that stuck out to me was: "I deal with what's real" or something to that effect. He then expounded on that by saying that he has heard nothing but good things about Loeffler and that's why he was comfortable making the hire. But what's more real than actual results; wins and loses?
We're just fortunate that our defense has come to play this season. If our defense was playing at the same level this first half of the year as it did last year, I cringe at what our W-L record would be at this point. And conversely, if we still had the old offensive coaching staff, I wonder if anything that's "real" changes at this point in the season. The defense is the only difference between our record this year and last year.
Well, with Auburn it was a whole combination of things. For starters, Chizik is a horrible head coach, as evidenced by the fact that he is currently, to the best of my knowledge, unemployed. Next, let's look at the talent he had. He had good running backs and a decent (from a run-blocking perspective) offensive line. Those running backs all averaged 5-6+ yards per carry, which is pretty darn good. The big problem was his quarterback/passing game. Please note his quarterback is now a safety. When you can't convert 3rd downs, protect the QB or hit big plays through the air and then your defense can't get a stop, you fall behind very quickly. Then, you're forced to go to the air more, and the cycle continues. Loeffler was not put in a position to succeed at Auburn, plain and simple. He didn't have a good HC, a good QB, or, for the most part, the talent needed to execute his scheme (pro-style multiple as opposed to the spread). He was at Auburn for one year, which was a complete dumpster fire from every perspective, and I really wish people would stop holding that against him.
As an Auburn fan and graduate I feel I have to weigh in here...
The obvious problems last year and the year before were Gene Chizik. Despite the National Championship in 2010, most Auburn fans are content to wipe Chizik's name from the history of the program (and subsequently bequeath that NC to Gus Malzhan...). Chizik got extremely meddlesome with regards to his coordinators the last two years, and it showed. Auburn had Tre Mason last year, and he was the absolute only reason to watch and Auburn game last year (he's a fun RB to watch), but now he's complimented by a speedster (Corey Grant) and a big bruiser (Cameron Artis-Payne), as well as a JUCO transfer at QB and the backup QB being a freshman. If you think LT3 has been bad the last two years, I invite you to put up with Khiel Frazier and Jonathan Wallace for a year. VT doesn't have a RB as good as Tre Mason (and I say that with the confidence of watching every game for both teams last year), much less 3 RB's that could play meaningful snaps at almost any school (which I believe Mason, CAP, and Grant could do). Nick Marshall is also a much different running QB than LT3 and runs the read option significantly better.
So pick your favorite reason out of those, but I feel it's unfair to compare Malzhan's first year in Auburn to Loeffler's first year in Auburn or at VT. Malzhan is established as a fantastic OC. Loeffler had never been the OC at a D-1 school before last year. Give him some time before throwing him under the bus.
I can't believe I didn't mention this in the above post but...
Malzhan probably recruited 80% of the current Auburn team. That makes a HUGE difference as well. Loeffler has recruited 0% of the VT team playing meaningful snaps. It was a "here's what we have, come in and do what you can with it". I don't know that Malzhan could coax 30+ points per game outta this team as it's currently constructed TBH.
See my clarifications above. I do not disagree with Loeffler. He is doing the best he can. My point is that he talked about sizably improving the offensive effort earlier in the season; that talk is gone. Telling guys to stop making mistakes is obvious. I like apple pie too. So .. those out there expecting big improvements -- it is not going to happen in the near term. His signal now is that they have gone as far as they can go with this talent-pool and it is just going to be a nitty-gritty slog on offense for the rest of the season.
I'm having a hard time figuring out the point you're trying to make? Would you of liked it if he came out in the off-season and said "Hey, I don't think we're going to be very good this year or next year, but everything should be righted and have a top 30 offense in 2 or 3 years."
No one would ever say that, it shows no confidence in the players, staff, or your own ability. I'm sure he's as pissed as you are about how the offense is performing, he has accepted that we're not going to be as improved as he wanted to be this year. He wanted to right the ship this year, and now knows 100% certain it's going to take more than 6 months and a few games.
I think perception is everything here. With the type of defense we boast and an aging Frank Beamer I'm not sure the 2-3 year projections everyone is talking about makes sense. Another point to take is that typically when there is a new hire that who will likely succeed there is SOME evidence of that right away; whether its via a big win or blowing out a lesser opponent, something should inspire confidence.
Typically towards the end of the season, you will start to see the team improve game by game as they start to get it. College kids are so much more moldable than NFL guys if you have a system that works it will work regardless of outside factors. In the grand scheme of recruiting I feel there is a top 10% and then everyone else. Bud Foster does more with walk ons than anyone else.
Unfortunately I don't believe in the 3yrs get my own players in track. I've never seen it happen in year 3, what usually happens is coach gets fired in year 3 and someone else comes in and does more with his guys. I'm sorry but Loefler has Lane Kiffin written all over him.
I hope you're wrong!
I don't think Beamer is ready to step down for a while, i.e. Joe Pa route. And as to the big win, beating WCU 45-3 is a big number (yes, the offense wasn't like clockwork, but a good sign for the second game of a new offense) and I'd say having your first 3 ACC games without a turnover is a good sign. Let's not get all doomsday and label him Kiffen yet. He does have hand picked recruits on the way (our recruiters seem to be picking it up) after a few paltry years left him with little to no receiver help and an O-line in shambles.
How would Loeffler and Co. prove a sense of urgency to you? I think thats the question.
Let me guess... start Leal, right?
How many of our current offensive players would have started during one of our 10 win seasons?
And your complaining about Loeffler? Come on now.
A tad meaner than my post, but short, sweet, to the point and incorporating Dr. Cox. Turkey leg awarded.
This is actually what I first wanted
I refuse to consider QBR a meaningful statistic until ESPN actually explains the algorithm for it. Right now they just say that it encompasses everything a quarterback does without giving us any knowledge of how it is actually calculated.
I would also like to know how someone weights the performance based on "clutch situations." How in the world do you attach a number to that?
Does the QB play in the SEC add 10 points...Did they engineer a last minute drive to beat Kentucky and keep there team ranked? add 10 points.
They wont ever, probably because they make it up on the fly as to give some credit to their quarterback analysis. That way when they say that so-and-so is the best QB in the country they point to their black box QBR machine and get to say "See! We have a stat to prove it!"
There's an article on SBnation about how quarterbacks who played really good games had bad QBR.
Remember: TWO YRS compadres. That's two yrs avg
to install a new system.
I find myself writing comments and then deciding not to post them usually based on these topics. You have to look big picture here. I am a redskins fan and this season is rough...but what do you expect when you are 36 million short because of the NFL, half the team are backups at best in another franchise, and the star QB rehabbed the entire offseason and had no chance to continue learning progressions, learning correct mechanics and learning an ever evolving offensive system. Everyone is calling for the staff to be fired, but guess what..this year they should have about 40 million to spend, and I am excited for next season.
As many have said, if we are still struggling in 4 years when Loeffler has had the opportunity to recruit his own players, coach them and install his system, then fine--go ahead. But this is literally the 8th game of his first season with a group of players that only have a few players with experience.
Everyone wants the past seasons' success (redskins fans were spoiled last year, and surprised) but there are factors every year that have to be taken into account. Patience here.
FWIW, my Keydet dad thinks the Hokie fan base sometimes acts too spoiled. We've had two decades of winning seasons, and that's pretty darn good. He always rolls his eyes when someone calls for Beamer & Staff to be axed after a rough loss.
Regarding his school, he really wishes they'd just go D-III in Football.
Yeah, sometimes I wonder if they realize how many fans wish their teams worst season in two decades was a bowl win and sweeping changes to address the problems that led to it.
I would rather have Loeffler tell it as he see it than to hear, "We were one catch away from winning the game...we were one block away from winning the game...dur, I don't second guess myself...Um, I can't answer that because that's too big for my mind to understand...what is Y stick route? I have never heard of it...oooh, pretty crayons..."
One thing about Loeffler that endeared me to him is his obsession to details. Know who else is like that on the staff? Oh let me count the way. Bud Foster. Torrian Gray. Charley Wiles. Aaron Moorehead (his ripping of the wide receivers during the August 16th public scrimmage ring any bell?). Jeff Grimes.
I'm not sure if Shane Beamer is like that, but I'm willing to wait for a bit longer to evaluate. Ditto for Stiney as the tight end coach.
If you have not paid attention during the season, Loeffler wasn't shy about letting the media know he had gotten into Logan's ears about missing checkdowns or not looking hard enough to find an open receiver. In fact, I distinctly remember Loeffler marching up to Mark Leal during a scrimmage and pointed out he missed a wide open Perez-Means, I believe, and Leal isn't safe from Loeffler's criticism. That's the mark of a good teacher.
Something we did not have for a good while, on the offensive side of the ball, that is.
I think what's going on here is everyone got so used to blaming Stinespring (myself included) that when we lose we want another coach to blame. Since we can't blame Stinespring people are blaming Loeffler. But come on, it was one game. He put us in position to win that game. Did I disagree with some play calls? Yes, just about every end around to JC is stupid. But we still had our chances to win that game multiple times and the players blew it. DJ Coles not getting set in time, Logan throwing a pick on the next play, Journell missing 2 field goals. Logan throwing 3 more interceptions. The opportunities were there, we just didn't execute. This offense isn't going to turn into a 30+ point offense in one season, that'd be a ridiculous expectation. There has been some improvement.
Loeffler can't go out there and make the throws. We had guys open, there were holes for the RB. Small mistakes took away big plays and then we made big mistakes. Does Loeffler deserve some blame? I think so. We should have been pounding the ball down their throats all game but it seems he tried to get fancy some and it didn't work (because of awful throws). I expect a better year next year on offense and a really good 3rd year for him. His schemes work, our guys just aren't executing them.
We left 13 verifiable points on the field Saturday in the called back TD and two missed FGs. We likely could have had more points if we had not shot ourselves in the foot. We had the ball in Duke territory and turned it over on downs (I think I'm right, correct me if I'm not) twice. Saturday was one of those weird days where very little goes right. I would compare it to one of those baseball games where a not-so-good team beats the division leader by a score of 18-2...there are times when the ball doesn't bounce your way. Not to say there weren't things that we could have done to change that, but someone on here said that the game had a strange vibe to it, and I agree. Best thing to do is pick yourself up, dust yourself off, buckle your chin strap, and get ready for the next one.
Oh yeah, there was upset in the air for sure. Something about that game just felt wrong.
It was the orange jersey and pants working against us.
Just a quick comment - had we beaten Duke, we wouldn't be having the usual bitch-session we have after every loss.
The usual procedure is -
1. bitch about the loss ad nauseum to make sure that dead horse has been turned to glue,
2. blame specific players and the desire to bench the offenders,
3. blame one or more assistant coaches especially those who just got here,
4. blame CFB (Let's fire the old fart!) for screwing up despite the fact that he built the freakin' football program from the train-wreck left behind by Dooley, and he has more wins than any other active FBS coach, and -
5. blame the Tech Admins for not firing CFB for failing to win the NC Game in 1999.
I think that just about covers it, don't you? Cheerio, carry on!
I think you missed the part where our season is doomed due to the loss