OK, now they've done it. France's fencing association has officially recognized lightsaber dueling as a discipline.
Is this the end of actual sports? I mean as fun as the Olympics are to watch, I've noticed that some of the sports nowadays look like something I'd have invented in the back yard when I incorporated household objects into my skateboarding hobby and got my neighbors to score my landings, but at least those include actual skateboards or snowboards.
Are we really going to dumb-down physical sports and meld them with video games? Are video games actually sports?
OK, I exaggerate a little, as lightsaber dueling is physical, and is more or less just using technology instead of swords, but I do see a trend developing, and they do look more like toys than actual swords.
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Paging VTFencer...
This is a move to try and mainstream the actual sport at the expense of the legitimacy of the sport itself. Ultimately it's just HEMA broad sword 'fencing' with glowsticks.
I know, right? Call me when they have rules allowing force push.
I gotta say, fighting with glowsticks doesn't make fencing look like the disciplined, strategic, and physical sport I know it to be.
In all honesty, I hope no one looks to start this at my club. We have a tough enough time handing out free beginner's lessons and making the competition side enticing.
What's next the forward pass in football! A three point shot in basketball! OMG getting rid of the DH in baseball!! Think of the sport and it's history.
I'm fine with advancing sport so it has a broader appeal.
so...you're the only one allowed to have a strong opinion about obscure things? Come on, man.
... How was that your takeaway from his comment?
His response to someone's outrage about making a sport stupid is to mockingly list acceptable tweaks to more popular sports.
There are baseball "purest" who would be outraged at the removal of the DH. I'm sure back in the day some guy was mad about football now having passing he just didn't have the internet to complain on. As long as the basic sport is the same, which it is, what's the issue?
My issue is that this isn't even the same sport. A rule change to an existing sport is not an equivalent comparison. A more correct comparison would be netball vs basketball.
So it's a brand new sport? So why should anyone be angry then? If they aren't even changing fencing. So it's a whole new sport that doesn't effect fencing.
Because the governing bodies of the sport shouldn't be trying to capitalize on the novel popularity of a fictional competing sport to increase its own popularity. Let the International Association of Lightsaber Duelists or whatever run the show. It would be like if a field hockey or lacrosse governing body decided that they could increase their popularity by trying to declare themselves the governing body of quidditch too.
We have Rugby and Cricket in different forms. To make game faster more exciting etc.
But they're still rugby and cricket.
This whole thing is going to ignite a debate of what constitutes fencing across the fencing community and general public. In my opinion if it doesn't have electronic scoring and you use two hands it becomes HEMA (link) and is no longer modern fencing. Fencing drops the premise of realism in favor of pushing the limits of what someone can do with a metal rod with a button on the end held in one hand.
If it were real lasers that could lop off a limb....
This looks more like hijinks with glowsticks at a rave.
Ok, now we' e Gone too far.
A fireman opining on rugby.
And there are also baseball "purists" (probably more, I would add) that would be outraged at the inclusion of the DH in the NL.
Fuck the DH.
Do ANY baseball purists like the DH?
If there was any attempt at all by the picture to even try to bat, I'd hate the DH, but the 9th spot in the NL is such a black hole that it almost has to exist. And it allows some of the more high profile players to continue playing longer, which isn't a bad thing for fans.
I honestly don't understand why pitchers can't be bothered to spend time in the batting cages so they aren't completely miserable at the plate.
It sure as hell would make them less likely to purposely hit a batter with a pitch, knowing that they will have to stand in a batter's box afterwards.
Nearly all pitchers were really good at hitting at HS or even college level. It's hard to hit the Majors.
I only follow the Nationals closely, but their starting pitchers spend hours in the cage every week.
Pitchers hitting is a great thing from a strategy standpoint. AL managers just stand there for three hours watching a game, NL managers have to work to get the right pitcher or hitter in at the right time. 5th inning, down by two with two on and two out with the pitcher coming up. What do you do? That's not a problem you have to solve in the AL. And it's why the AL is boring as hell.
I enjoy the strategy aspect as well. There's quite a bit of strategy and must consider the immediate, intermediate, and long-term effects of pulling a pitcher, subbing in a pinch-hitter.
You are 100% right! There are almost NO baseball purists who like the DH. Pitchers can and do bat, and some are better than others, just like every other position in the game.
If the DH is good because pitchers aren't good hitters, well hey, catchers are usually pretty sucky batters as well, so why not add a 2nd DH for them also?
Hell, since some hitters are poor fielders, why not just have 9 batters and 9 separate field players for each team?
Fuck the DH.
watching Scherzer bat is pure joy.
You're a little backwards in your baseball analogy here, Fireman. The purists are still outraged about the introduction of the DH back in 1973. They'd be delighted if the entire American League got sucked into a black hole and restored sanity to their beloved sport.
eliminate baseball and softball from the olympics
add in video games and lightsabers
lol ok
I mean 5 minutes of lightsaber battling is more physically demanding than an entire game of Baseball unless you're the pitcher or catcher.
Olympic training!
I mean.... I gotta say it.... The CGI in this clip is second to none!
Nun what?
If there are enough people who are passionate enough about doing this to field an Olympic roster, I really don't have an opinion one way or the other. Let 'em have their fun along with the ice dancers, weight lifters, runners, mat tumblers, etc. Every "real sport" we have now was likely mocked by "real athletes" at some point. It's not like we actually fight wars with swords anymore, so who cares what they're dueling with?
This all stems from this clip that went viral years after it was recorded at the World Fencing Championships in 2015. It got nearly 10 million views on YouTube to the men's foil final's 200k views. I'm sure everyone at the FIE (international governing body) saw this notoriety and thought "shit how do we capitalize on this?" This clip also perfectly encapsulates my problem with lightsaber dueling as it's choreographed in nearly every instance both theatrically and in live action. Every offensive action is designed to attack the blade and not the opponent.
It's not like it isn't even blatantly obvious, too. There's a part in the middle where it slows down a bit, and the single-blader has his back to the double-blader, and I was wondering why the double-blader didn't run him through right there. He could've done it in slow-mo to make it cooler.
No way. That's real, man.
Next up...
I didn't know Kyle Guy and Ty Jerome were 2 sport athletes...
I know it's hard to tell, but that's not actually Ty Jerome and Kyle Guy. It's just two different UVA guys running around chasing balls with their sticks in their hands.
Ahhhh you're right. Shoulda noticed the stick was way too big to be the one they're used to carrying.
the guy with the green head band is enjoying that broomstick a little too much.
I think we should also add water noodles to the acceptable weapons list. I am also inclined to make American Gladiators Joust and olympic even too.
You can already make the weapon behave like a pool noodle, if you know what you're doing. That's actually a pretty common criticism from the "muh realism" crowd.
Even with the slo-mo at the end, I still couldn't see what was going on.
The Italian fencer on the left does what's called a fleche attack (basically a running attack with arm extension). The Swiss fencer on the right executes a circular 6 parry (making a clockwise circle with the point of the weapon moving upwards) to force the Italian off target. Then the Swiss fencer lands a gorgeous flick riposte to the Italian's trailing shoulder as he runs past.
Heinzer has a reputation for being flashy, so the exaggerated movement of the parry and riposte make this a particularly impressive example of a flick, but he left himself open to get hit with his arm raised over his head in preparation of landing the flick if he had missed the parry. The Italian actually attempts to disengage or avoid the parry by pulling his arm back and to the right and angling the weapon inside but can't do it fast enough.
Yeah but that doesnt have the oh so satisfying sound of smacking the water just right with the noodle.
via Gfycat
This is being upvoted?
Surprised me. I got downvoted to hell for a passive-agressive gaaaay joke, and rightfully so. It was stupid and I freely admit it.
(I'd link the comment, but it's been a few weeks, and my comment-search-fu is not strong.)
I'm pretty sure the basis for the prequel lightsaber duels is some form of Japanese sword fighting. It's somewhere in the DVD extra features, but I haven't watched those since I was a kid. I'm down with this as a sport and give it time to watch it develop. However, if the Olympics add this before Downhill Ice Cross Racing, I will be pissed.
Orgininally yes as Star wars is basically Hidden Fortress, Lucas loved the japanese style they used. In the prequels they used more Chinese styles mixed with nonsense.
And then there's this
Step Up 4: The Olympics
Time to dust off my old VHS tape of Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo...
Demonstration Sports have been part of the Olympics for over 100 years. Any of these things they want to make into an Demostration Sport is fine. The whole point of those is promotion of the sport (and the possibility for inclusion in the actual olympics, but slim chance). Generally, it's all going to come out in the wash. The stuff that is legitimate will be included. The ones that aren't will have their moment of glory, then be relegated to the normal venues.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonstration_sport
RIP ski ballet
Not until rugby is a regular Olympic sport.
So, I get into the whole "Are the vidjya games sports?" a bunch. They are, beyond the shadow of a doubt, a form of competition that is highly monetizable. Sports management groups are already buying teams and turning it from guys playing in a basement to a legitimate thing. I think people get hung up on "sport."
CBS just did an alright piece (I think negatively biased but I am positively biased so... wash?) on what progamers go through. If you get bored, take a peek.
23 minutes?
I can't devote that much time to knowing what a video gamer goes through.
It's not for everybody. And if a 3 minute video would change your mind on a stance, well, we would have nothing to argue about.
Ahhh the lesser known CBS show "23 minutes"
I've gone on the record here before saying if air pistol is an Olympic sport then eSports are certainly on a higher level of physical exertion.
I don't know if sport is the right word for esports. I totally see people saying it isn't physical, it's all digital, etc. I then see some of these people turn around and watch poker on ESPN for hours.
There is a real strategy, preparation, and training that go into these professionals. It's attracting lots of inverstors as esports as an industry is going to be over a billion dollar industry by 2020 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2018/02/21/report-esports-to-grow...). Pro sports teams are buying esports teams and structuring them and shaping them in the image of what we traditionally think of as sports squads. The Warrior, FC Schalke, the 76ers, Bayern Munchen, West Ham, the Patriots, the Celtics, the Heat, and quite a few more have all bought esports teams.
If nothing else, they are a form of entertainment that people will watch and spend money on. In a world where traditional sports teams are having a hard time engaging their audience and attendance numbers are dropping, esports has been growing engagement and reaching a valuable audience, men between 18-25 which are notoriously hard to engage.
Just because it's competitive and requires skill doesn't mean it should be an olympic game.
Poker is absolutely competitive and requires skill, but I don't think you should get an Olympic gold medal for it.
I think there should be some limit to the number of gold medal sports. If you want to add one, you should have to eliminate another.
It's almost as if the Olympics is afraid they'll be supplanted by the x-games or esports, and maybe that's a real threat in this day and age.
I don't think the Olympics are afraid of being supplanted, I think they're afraid of becoming irrelevant period in its current form. Countries that are willing to host are dwindling and viewership is stagnant at best.
I don't think they should be in the Olympics. I actually made a distinction that I think they need a label other than "sport" but still a competitive form of entertainment. I think that so many people scoff at them and view them as silly games that people spend too much time on.
One video game, for their finals, had more viewers in 2014 than the NBA Finals or the World Series game 7 (http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/page/instantawesome-leagueoflegends-141...). The Asian Games already had esports as a demonstration sport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esports_at_the_2018_Asian_Games).
These things are here. It's almost a throwback to the quickdraw or speed chess. It's fast paced, often frantic, and accessible. Esports (again, I dislike this word) has $1.3B in revenue this year. The NFL was at about $13B. But France's Div 1 soccer/futbol division was at $1.5B.
I think I take offense to the "Are we going to dumb down sports and meld them with video games?" The things a lot of the pro players do are insanely difficult and taxing. It's a different skill set and person who will accel but that doesn't make it a dumbed down version.
If nothing else, I'll offer another video, shorter this time at 11 mins. It is on Denmark and how the country has invested on esports and used it as a tool to form a pipeline for young (high school aged) students to finish school and pursue their goal. Strangely mirrors something else we talk about on this site a lot.