The latest report on Buzz Williams' possible departure from Pete Thamel, who is usually quite plugged in on these things.
- "As far back as last season, Buzz Williams has had an open invitation to return to Texas A&M."
- Whit's already vetting candidates.
- Williams is the only name for A&M.
- Perhaps a Final Four run changes the outcome.
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
How would a final four run change the outcome.?
Thamel is implying that Buzz might consider staying if we go deeper in the tournament but its just pure speculation on his part.
It wouldn't.
My dad, who's lived in Blacksburg for almost 20 years and rubs elbows every day with other locals who have had decades-long ties to the university says that he doesn't think Whit and Buzz are on the same page. Says perhaps Buzz isn't happy because he thinks his program doesn't get its fair share of the pie.
Well, up until now, why would it have?
This. Up until last weekend he hadn't won a single tournament game. The turnaround from where we were was top notch. If he truly believes that then he should stay and reap the rewards rather than running to A&M where he will play second fiddle no matter how great his success.
Maybe he feels more of an investment should've been made based off of the trajectory of the program since his arrival? Again, this is only what some people around town are saying.
He can certainly make a good argument for more money right now. But he needs to stick around to do that, or it'll be Whit making the argument.
Buzz Knew Lane made the Cassell when he took the job. I hope the love of Small Town living being a Millionaire will make him stay. Plus ACC is Basketball, no better Stage. Whit can't do but so much and Buzz either Stays or Goes.. Me, I hope he stays.
That was then. This is now. The football program is no longer the only show.
From my vantage point (outside graduate perspective, 200+mi outside of Blacksburg) there is now a major cultural shift in the athletic department, and its all attributed to the sustained incremental success of the basketball program. I could see a near immediate future where the basketball program is an equal to the football program, or even taking over as the dominant sport at the university.
Continuation of this newly found success needs to be capitalized on, and that particular part is on Whit. He needs to figure out how best to work with or realign the resources he has to continue to make the basketball program a bigger success (I'm not saying he isn't doing his job, btw), and that probably means a bigger chunk of resources going to basketball. That doesn't necessarily mean a massive salary for Buzz, but it should mean that more funds in general need to go to the program. If he can make the commitment it should make a big statement to Buzz, or whoever it is that we need to court in the wake of Buzz's departure.
Screw A&M
I'm sad to say it.... but my wife and I are actually more interested in attending basketball games now than football...
She gets free tickets with really good seats from her work (which helps a lot), but it's just so much easier to drive up after work, grab a bite to eat, watch 2 hours of hoops, and drive 30 minutes or so home.
Football is still fun, but it's so much more of a production and it's much more expensive. It's an all day event with having to tailgate all day, there's a ton more planning involved since I usually host, and then dealing with traffic for hours afterwards. It also hurts when every game I've attended the last 3 years (that isn't some scrub FBS game) we've lost, so you put all this time and effort in, just to sit in traffic afterwards fuming and it ruins the rest of your weekend.
I definitely feel where you're coming from here. My wife and I had a very similar conversation recently. Football is great and a lot of fun, but it's very demanding of your time and money. We only live about 1.5 hrs from Blacksburg, but it's still an all day affair to buy all the tailgating supplies, drive down and do that all day, spend 3.5-4 hours at the game, then fight horrible I 81 traffic all the way back. Basketball games are fun, fast-paced, and you can show up just before the game and leave within a reasonable amount of time.
I can't ever see basketball overtaking football at VT, but it's definitely made a huge surge under Buzz and is arguably far more exciting than VT football at our current point in time. I think if football were winning more, attitudes about making the commitment to attending football games would be far different, but when there is so little buzz around the program these days and you're losing, it really makes people reconsider the effort when you factor in the overall expense and time commitment.
Perspective - that isn't sad. Thats a combination of now having a good basketball program and being in close proximity to the university. If we had a crappy program all you would be left with is a solid commute :-)
100% agree and I live in Blacksburg so traffic & travel aren't even part of the equation for me. Basketball offers a more intimate fan experience. Weather is a non-factor. Everyone isn't hammered. Plus as you mentioned, its so much easier from a time commitment to go to a basketball game. For a 7pm tipoff I can get in the car at 6:40, drive to Cassell, park, get a milkshake, and be in my seat by the time starting lineups are announced.
Found Frank's alternate account.
My wife also really likes the fact it's indoors and that she can establish what feels like a relationship with the players over the years...
Plus she likes cheerleading/dance team and enjoys being close to the floor to watch. I don't mind that either....I just have to be careful when she asks: "What did you think of the routine?" cuz I'm usually trying not to perv out by staring at a bunch of 18-20 year old girls jumping around with their legs spread in the air.
The obvious response is that they are well qualified.
A few more than others....but damn some of them have good resumes....
Another aspect of basketball is that you can develop during the season.
The team was able to step forward from the Penn State game with every goal still attainable.
The loss to Clemson did not eliminate ACC or NCAA tournament opportunities.
Even two late season losses to FSU haven't had a meaningful change to VT's season.
A win in one of those games would have moved us out of Duke's bracket. Winning both, or winning in the ACCT and going on to beat UVA the next day, would have probably moved us up to the 3-line, so we'd get to at least the Elite 8 before facing a 1-seed.
I don't understand, why are you not tailgating for basketball games?
Also I'm not sure you have to tailgate for football games either (don't quote me on this).
When we used to go to basketball games, my wife and I would meet after work get a sub and some brews to go, park at the Greenhouses or if lucky, on Southgate, and listen to the pregame on the radio while eating dinner. That passed for a tailgate. While we saw a lot of friends at the game, usually on our halftime round the stadium stroll, or in the club room, many games were mid-week and with work and all, it wasn't easy to get a tailgate together, and it doesn't seem to be allowed in the basketball parking lots anyway.
As for the football tailgate, that was a big part of why I finally gave up my season tickets for the comforts and conveniences of home viewing. I grew weary of spending the entire day to go to a football game, dealing with the traffic (I love the actual crowds at the venue) and worrying about sobriety driving, mine and others. I lived about 35 minutes from the 'Burg, but a football game was a minimum of 9 hours of commitment, door to door. Older I got, less it appealed to me, though nothing compares to being there, I'll still readily admit.
Yep. This. Regardless of whether Buzz stays or goes, as long as we're firmly rooted in the ACC basketball will give us our best "money sport" shot at winning it all, and if a big time coach like Buzz doesn't feel like he's got a big enough piece of the pie in house, maybe that should change.
Kind of a hawt taek but let's be real. Football is a few years away from being a few years away, and it doesn't seem like that will change anytime soon. Maybe a playoff caliber squad in 2020 if everything breaks right. Maybe. But look at what we've been able to do in the shootyhoop game. Nothing to sweet 16 in 5 years, with a greater than zero chance of getting even further. If Buzz feels like he's been shortchanged, I wouldn't necessarily blame him right away.
Boy, if he thinks this program plays 2nd fiddle to the football squad, I imagine he's in for a rude awakening at A&M. Then again if the money I've heard is true, well then to hell with it, 2nd fiddle ain't so bad at A&M lol
It's a much, much bigger pie at aTm
football -> baseball -> basketball at aTm
A&M has so much money, it's kind of disgusting. I think they can give him exactly what he wants without it affecting any other sport.
Maybe, but they also have over 2.5 times the number of students. Which also means they turn out 2.5 times the number of alumni every year. So while the football team may be first chair, the second fiddle has plenty of more support.
They seem to have more than 2.5 times the money though. Not sure how that worked out...
Oil.
It all comes back to oil money in a lot of ways. As of five years ago, the oil shale boom was boosting the UT & A&M systems with about $1B a year. Here's a good synopsis:
https://abc13.com/education/oil-boom-pumping-cash-into-ut-and-texas-a-m/89251/
In addition to the oil money, A&M and Texas, much like Alabama receive a large amount of funding from a non-Alumni fan base that even though they didn't go to A&M, its always been their team and they support their team even better than even a large percent of the alumni base does.
I'm on 247 and have gone over to read the A&M board periodically to get a feel for what their fans are saying. Apparently attendance at bball games is atrocious and has been even when they were good. Lots of fans are meh on Buzz just because they are meh on basketball in general. While I'm sure the money will provide plenty of comfort, I dont think Buzz will be as beloved in College Station as he is in Blacksburg, especially if Jimbo starts winning.
Same could be said of VT attendance and attitude 5 years ago?
Sure but Texas A&M is actually a solid program with 2 sweet 16 appearances in the past 4 seasons. Imagine if no one was showing up to VT games over the past 3 years. That is A&M.
True enough. And one fiddle is a solo, it takes more to make an orchestra and second fiddle is a big cog in the fiddle section, like most second chairs in the orchestral/band world. I figure Buzz figures he'll change things at TAMU like he did at VT, and who are we to say he won't? If he's leaving due to some perceived lack of support though, he might just be talking himself into feeling that way, because from what I see outside looking in, he seems to have the support of everybody with a VT on their hat, and has garnered respect from many outside our fan base.
If he really wanted to be the big dog on campus, why did he ever leave Marquette? I'm suspicious that this is really a serious motivating factor.
Now, whether he feels like he has the full support of the athletic department is a different question.
He left Marquette because he knew football schools were the future. Football brings in the serious revenue and attention, and an ACC school had 10000x more clout than Marquette in that regard.
Specifically, he left because he saw the 'Power 5' breaking away (literally, or metaphorically in terms of revenue) from and leaving the rest of D1, and wanted to be a part of the 'haves'.
That's the exact reason he gave when he spoke in Raleigh at a HC event a couple weeks after he was hired. (not sure if you were there)
He left Marquette because the Athletic Director and President that had hired him and that supported the basketball program above pretty much everything else, were no longer there. The Interim President was the one that fired the Athletic Director, so Buzz had issues there. He had issues with the incoming Athletic Director because that guy suspended Buzz and fired one of his assistants for what normally would have been a suspension for the assistant. That Athletic Director then also left, so there now were an interim President and interim Athletic Director. A major plus for Buzz was that his contract stated that if the Athletic Director left, then his contract buyout was reduced from $2M to $100K. Buzz wasn't happy with the direction of the "new Big East" as it started working out the path forward from the split with the American East.
There also was the Buzz being Buzz aspect of it where he had done an inordinate amount of research into what he could expect of the Marquette program going forward.
In an article where Gary Parrish interviewed Buzz about this subject:
This is very much something I could see from Buzz, meticulously determining if it makes sense to stay where he is or move on.
A very telling point, wouldn't you say?
If he's that good at research seems like the pros of being in the ACC at an up and coming schools like VT outweigh SEC, Coach K and Williams won't be around forever.
But maybe that's just my assessment.
Agree. But I think if he's considered a candidate for a blue blood job down the road, he'll be one whether he's spent the previous few years making "X" in Blacksburg or making "1.5/2X" in Texas, closer to family.
Maybe that's true but it feels to me like grasping for reasons that make the situation under VT's control (or allows us to place the blame on someone) instead of just accepting the most simple and obvious answer- Buzz sees Texas A&M as home and is as close to a dream job as it gets for him.
True but "simple and obvious" sounds nothing like Buzz.
I'm thinking his thought process looks more like a static's final.
More than likely, there would be a multitude of reasons for him to decide to leave. I agree that family would probably be at or near the top of that list.
Wait until he gets to A&M. Smaller piece of a bigger pie.
I don't buy that as this feels like blame language. I honestly don't feel like this is because we did something wrong.
I believe sometimes you can do everything (at least the big things) overall right and there are just other opportunities in the world. A&M is a situation that fits which is the operative word here and it's not because of what VT didn't do or should have done. It is because they have things we simply can't offer (Ex home state)
I know the team is 2-0 in this tournament, but not sure if they've looked the same the last few games. Could be chemistry (added a "new" player), could be game planning (where are the 3pt attempts?), bright lights / big cities, could just be me getting used to it.
Makes me wonder if they're 100% focused. We'll see. 5-2 recent record: Duke, Miami, Miami, #13, #12, with 2 OTs vs FSU. Are they hot or just hangin' on? Hopefully this feels like home regardless of who's in the stands.
(yes, this was meant for the Buzz discussion)
Look at the first half of the saint louis game, they were clicking on all cylinders. Second half buzz was tinkering with the lineup. Liberty game, when they needed to ratchet it up they did.
Thank you. Also I need to remember these are tournament teams (including FSU).
St. Louis I was listening in the car, Liberty I was watching with / in-laws and distracted.
I'll agree the team looks different offensively, but that can be attributed to plugging in JRob and using the first game to try some new things. Hill, Outlaw, JRob, and NAW are probably gone this year either way so I don't see how it could be a huge distraction for them. Especially since the media hasn't been nagging them with these questions in the post game. This may be maroon colored glasses, but I believe the team is focused and want to win every game even if Buzz is leaving and they all know it.
If anything may pull the team closer knowing this may be their last chance to be in this position.
I'm going to say they are 100% focused. 5, Hill, NAW and Outlaw are all gone after this season. KBJ will grad transfer if Buzz leaves (maybe to A&M but he's talented enough that any program in the country would welcome him e.g. Duke). Wilkins and Horne are just grateful to be playing in the ACC. None of those guys have any reason to be upset that Buzz is leaving at the end of the season.
The only guy I would see not being 100% focused is Bede but based on how much fun he's having, I think he's locked in.
I know it's one of those things that can't fully be controlled but I think it's BS all this has to play out during our post season. Screw whoever is the primary leak.
It's hard to imagine it not being a distraction in the locker room or at least in the back of players' minds--especially the younger guys who could potentially feel abandoned.
A&M couldn't have just waited a friggin weak before letting everyone know they're going to throw $6 million at Buzz?
Younger players, possibly. Which includes Wilkins, Kabongo, and Horne with limited minutes (and Bede). Also, aTm hasn't made any offer official nor has made any type of press releases. Don't see how they can handle it differently. Only reason we know anything is from leaks, which is extremely common in this arena. I'm as sad as the next guy, but I don't think there's really anyone person or entity to be aggravated about.
I don't suppose aTm really needed to say that Buzz was their first, second, and third option, and that they are pulling up the Brinks truck.
So they could have handled it differently. But they care about them, not us.
I guess I still lean that those are internal discussions being leaked by insiders. It's no shock that aTm is on Buzz hot and heavy, but it's not like the aggie twitter feed has been posting these details. But maybe I've accepted it to the point of complacency and have no more emotional resources to be mad at anyone
Not sure what you wanted aTm to do differently. They aren't flying banner planes, or running full page ads in the USA Today, or calling ESPN, or changing their athletics webpage. They have done basically zero. It's all media and insider hype. I don't hold aTm accountable at all.
I gotta blame someone. And they ARE apparently backing up the brinks truck, and targeting our coach after he's barely gotten into his groove here.
So I officially no longer like them, and I AM holding it against them.
Fuck Texas A&M.
Back when we played them, I used to think they had great fans. Now......fuck 'em. They just made my Arya list.
Joffrey. Cersei. Ilyn Payne. The Hound. Texas A&M...
Seriously especially with all the staff they've taken from us. Someone really loves those Hokie seconds.
dont take it out on their fans. This isn't their doing. A&M just has massive amounts of funding and the willingness to spend it all. If we had their funding stream we wouldn't be having this discussion about Buzz leaving.
Agreed.
You mean like 1976/77? Or 2002/03?
I was talking in general. My game day experience was in '03 and that was pretty positive. The remainder of my perspective has been friends/colleagues that attended A&M.
Ditto. About the rudest thing anybody had said to me the whole weekend was, "Man, it's a shame you had to come all this way for a loss," and that was while he was handing me a Shiner Bock at the Dixie Chicken.
Outstanding experience, just F them stealing our coaches.
Dixie Chicken! I was there that day, walking through the crowd and this gorgeous coed with two beers in her hand came walking towards me, singing to a country song I hadn't heard, and I'm thinking, 'She's beautiful, has beer in her hands, and she knows the words. I'm in love!"
There was lots to fall in love with that day, that's for sure!
I keep reading here about massive funding stream coming from increased oil revenue. Perhaps you're right, but that is in contrast with what I was told back in the mid- 80's by a TAMU prof I was visiting regarding our mutual research. He said that Texas and TAMU receive all the mineral rights revenues in a proportion 2/3 Texas 1/3 TAMU. But the catch was the SCHOOLS COULD ONLY USE IT FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS. Not salaries or athletic scholarships. He pointed out the eclectic architecture of A& M buildings and said that was because of all the mineral $ and they had to just keep erecting more buildings.
Those restrictions are a shell game. That money gets spent on capital improvements, but other money that has no restrictions that would have been spent on capital improvements gets funneled to athletics.
THIS.
Which is also how Maryland is building out their athletic facilities, with the state kicking in a LOT of money, because they put the label "sports medicine" over the door and they put in some academic facilities, while Kevin Plank only has to kick in a smaller amount (still in the millions).
I've said this in a different thread, but I don't really know how big of a distraction it could be. Jrob, Med, Outlaw, and NAW are all gone next year regardless of whether buzz is here or not. KJ is in his fourth year and can follow buzz to A&M if he really wants to. So that basically leaves Bede, Wilkins, and Horne. Wilkins and Horne played a combined 7 minutes on Sunday. Bede doesn't provide much offensively anyways, but has been pretty locked in on defense in the tournament thus far.
Also, these kids have so much love and respect for buzz (and vice versa) that I don't see them doing anything but playing as hard as they can for him. Sure, it's human nature to look ahead and worry about the future, but buzz has such a wonderful connection with his players. He has always and will continue to find ways to squeeze every ounce of effort out of them.
Is this supposed to make me feel better about the current situation? Because I don't feel better.
Jokes aside, I appreciate as always your info and perspective. Fingers crossed the next guy can keep from burning it to the ground....
Don't forget about Nolley, potentially Clarke, and a fairly decent recruiting class. If we keep Blackshear, that's something to build with. ...unless Buzz takes them with him.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Nolley go with him. He liked Buzz. Committed to UGa. Decommitted a day later after telling his family he thought he'd made a mistake. And then committed to Tech. It seemed obvious to me that he came to Tech for one reason only. Buzz.
I really hope the next guy, if Buzz leaves, brings his guys with him too. Wheels on the bus go round and round.
Doubt that very much in regards to Nolley. He'd have to sit out another year before playing. With guy that had aspirations of being one and done, I don't see him being that patient.
I hope that keeps Nolley around, but the way the NCAA is flinging out waivers to anyone who asks, wouldn't be surprised if he was able to get one to be able to play immediately if he did want to follow Buzz
I know it doesn't matter at all but one of the reasons I back away from sports at times is the lack of continuity and at times loyalty that is starting to be seen throughout all sports. It's not just Buzz leaving, which I can't fault him for, it just seems that with the newer lax transfer rules and coaches and players leaving somewhere for a chance at more money or playing time, it's hard to know what team you're rooting for from one year to the next. The powerful programs are just going to get more powerful and it's hard for me to keep investing so much time and energy into something that I'm not sure what will look like from one year to the next. I love VT and always will, but it's tough when you have no idea who will return on the roster, who will transfer and who the coach will be. I guess I miss it when I knew that Frank was there, regardless of the outcome, and while the product on the field may not be what I wanted at least we had continuity in personnel. These constant changes and worries about who will stay and who will go are stresses that can't help but back me away a bit from the whole foray. I know there's really no solution other than somehow winning at every level and pumping enough money in the program to do whatever we want. Just kinda sucks that this is the new reality and unfortunately we're not in a position to get who we really want both in players and coaches or to even make ones we currently have stay regardless of how they feel about the program due to $$$$.
I get your point, but no, it's not, really. You're rooting for the name on the front of the jersey, not the name on the back.
Just my $.02.
I know I'm rooting for Virginia Tech. But the players play the game and I want them to be Hokies as much as I am. And the coaches coach the players and outline the identity of the team, and I want them to be Hokies just as much as I am. I'm not saying I won't cheer for my team, I'm just saying I'll likely begin to lose interest in the product on the field a bit if that product changes drastically in identity year in and year out. And it's hard for me to get excited about players and coaches time and again if they are only going to be around until the next best thing comes along. I guess I'm just a bit old school, but VT is where my hearts at and I know that's not everything but it matters enough for me. If I wanted to cheer for the best team I'd be a Bama or Clemson fan. Just a bit frustrated we have to fight so hard to keep the top from constantly poaching us.
Starting to feel like it's not college ball anymore. It's like we're a pro team where coaches are hired and fired every couple of years, and players are traded or leave due to free agency.
It's like whenever a see an Alabama sticker on a car, I say to myself, 'You didn't go to Alabama. You're just rooting for them because they win'. I went to Tech. I love Blacksburg. I pull for our teams, contribute to the Hokie Scholarship Fund, am a member of the Hokie Club. These are my teams! I live for this. And it's a shame that college sports have headed in this direction.
But this is what it is. Nothing I can do about it. Live with it or don't. I'll keep on being a Hokie!
Buzz leaving doesn't bother as much as the attitude toward it all from A&M fans and the media that they can have whatever they want and talk about it as nonchalantly as they want. We're in a post-season run and this shit is just a distraction. Wait till the end of our damn season.
We'd be doing the same thing. We officially hired Fuente a month before Memphis even played in their bowl game back in 2015. I understand that the Sweet 16 is bigger than the Birmingham Bowl, but that season was just as big of a revelation for Memphis fans as this season is for VT basketball fans. You can't reasonably expect A&M to wait for our season to be over before they start negotiating with buzz. Their athletic department gets paid tons of money to do their job, they couldn't give two shits about our season other than how it relates to Buzz.
Football and Basketball are a little different given the timing of the sports' respective signing days relative to the season. The biggest reasons coach shuffle around between the end of regular season and bowl games is due to crootin'.
Sure, but that's a different topic. Doesn't change the fact that A&M's athletic department is going to do their job, just like VT's has, would be, and will soon be doing their's.
Basketball is also way different because a TON of coach networking & negotiations get done at the Final Four because its become a de facto yearly gathering of athletic departments.
The CFP Final is starting to become similar, but it's been like this for decades surrounding the Final Four.
Memphis Football has a CLEAR ceiling. G5 teams will almost never break into the playoff, and therefore, will ALMOST never win a natty. For some, Memphis may be a last destination, but any coach hoping to win a natty HAS to coach at a P5 school. Period.
VT Basketball is a completely different story. SOS should rarely be an issue (OOC SOS is a different monster), and we play in the PREMIER baskeball conference. ACC has 3 number 1 seeds in the tournament. VT can comfortably be someone's last stop in their career.
Ehhhh, I don't know about that. I'd like to be wrong, but I think VT is still a much harder job that takes the right person at the helm to bring out the best in the program. Even still, I think it's much more likely that VT ends up with guys on the rise than coaches looking for their final gig. If you can win at VT, you should be able to do even better at a place with more resources at your disposal.
The Duke & UNC brands will always be top dogs in the ACC, and there are some inherent limitations to VT's location for basketball. Regardless of who follows Coach K or Roy, they'll have the benefit of the media machine that feeds into the Tobacco Road rivalries.
Even this year, which is subjectively VT's best ever, we've only been on the fringe of the national radar.
I don't know that I'd agree we've been on the 'fringe." We were a top 10 earlier in the year. We were/are picked as a darkhorse in the tourney.
Every other ACC program has been able to keep successful basketball coaches:
Coach K at Duke
Roy Williams at UNC
Skip Prosser at Wake
Jim Larranaga at Miami
Leonard Hamilton at FSU
Tony Bennett at UVA
Not many coaches are poached from the ACC.
(Also Prosser's passing has been devastating for Wake for over a decade)
Excluding Coach K, since he's been at Duke even before the tournament was expanded to 64 teams... Every single one of those schools had been to a Sweet 16 with a prior coach since the expansion of the tournament to 64 teams. There was at least some hint that sustained success was possible at each place (funny enough, it was Leonard Hamilton at Miami).
Buzz is the only one who has ever done it at VT in the modern era. VT had never been to three straight tournaments before him. He's literally the first person to show that it's even possible at VT.
Whether we like or not, the VT job is generally considered by those in the college basketball industry to be a hard job. We can find reasons to believe that it's different now. Whit Babcock is one of them. We also have a built-in advantage that P5 schools are widening the gap between everyone else and we're among that club. But still, one brilliant coach and 5 seasons isn't enough to change that perception within the profession overnight.
Most of the guys you listed were already older when they took the jobs, with Coack K & Tony Bennett being the exceptions. But at least with UVA, basketball has nearly always been their flagship program and they had been one of the cornerstones of ACC basketball only to see it slip.
I think the VT job will be an attractive job because it's in the ACC and someone has shown it's possible. That doesn't mean it's going to necessarily become someone's dream job and final coaching stop. That would depend on the specific candidate's background and age (I feel like Wofford's Mike Young might be the closest thing to this - Radford native, played at Emory & Henry, 55 years old). If Whit goes younger on the hire (like Nate Oats), I could see a blue blood poaching a younger, successful VT coach.
VT is in the Sweet 16 and is heading to the Maui Invitational later this year. We're also about to announce "MAJOR renovations" (Whit's words, not mine) to Cassell as early as possibly this summer.
Its a very attractive job. Its in the heart of the ACC, very close to a couple known prep power schools, and in the middle of some of the most fertile recruiting ground in the country. And the program is starting to show signs of life that it might have a higher ceiling than anyone thought. And it comes with an A+ excellent Athletic Director for a boss.
It is a destination job. Get a coach in here looking to build up an ACC program, and this is a perfect spot. It has momentum, its ready to legitimately burst onto the National Scene, and (assuming Buzz leaves) if the next guy is able to sustain the momentum, will have a relatively easy job of making a power here.
A guy like Gregg Marshall could do wonders here.
Well said!
All I'll say... prepare to be annoyed by the narrative from the national college basketball media discussing the VT job if/when Buzz leaves.
Who gives a flying fuck what the national media thinks. They were wrong about us when Buzz was hired, and if they think that same shit again, they'll be wrong this time, too.
As long as we have Whit in charge, the narrative is meaningless. How many times does that man need to prove it?
The point is, guys like Parrish, Norlander, Rothstein, Dauster, Goodman, Davis, etc... they all talk to coaches, and coaches all talk to each other. The national media is more or less conversing on things they hear college basketball coaches discuss when VT comes up.
Just because Buzz has had a really good five year run at VT, that doesn't mean it completely changes the narrative surrounding VT basketball within the profession. Even from coaches within the industry, Buzz is widely seen within the profession as a top-tier coach and I bet there's a fair number who think his success at VT will be hard to replicate.
FWIW, I disagree with them and tend to side with you. I'm just saying that not everyone will agree with our rosy picture of VT basketball. I also agree with working for Whit seems to be a big draw for the coaches he's hired.
Basketball is an urban sport, it will always be tough for a place as rural as VT to be great at it. I don't think it's a destination job, it's maybe the 6th best job in the conference, but I think it's a top 30ish job.
Yes, those urban powerhouses like Bloomington, IN and Lawrence, KS have really been a boost to the reputation of Indiana and Kansas over all these years.
Buzz proved that the 'limitations' for recruiting here are only an excuse. A good coach and a healthy program will attract good players regardless of location.
Lawrence is 45 minutes from a major city in a state that where basketball was created. Bloomington is a better example, but again, there's a lot more history there than VT.
Nah fam, basketball was invented in Massachusetts.
Sure, but Buzzketball is a Blacksburg thing.
I didn't say anything about the A&M Athletic Deparment lol. It's the disrespect from the fans and media that bugs me the most.
I took "wait to the end of our damn season" as being directed towards A&M's AD. Even if it was directed towards their fan base, that's a really unreasonable expectation have. Thinking we'd act any differently is very naive.
I'm just echoing Buzz's comments. Not sure why you're so set on it being any other way.
Not something Buzz would say at all!
/s
Buzz telling reporters to not ask him those questions is pretty different than you being mad at their fans for talking about it on twitter. The media also has a job to do. It's in their best interest to ask the questions, just as it's in buzz's best interest to not provide any comment. Being mad about something like that is just ignoring the way the real world operates.
So what gives you the right to tell me what I should and shouldn't be bad about? Am I wrong for wishing it would all wait till our season is over? I mean Jesus Christ man I know how it works, I know it's inevitable. That doesn't mean I can't be frustrated with it.
Simmer. I think you're a little too worked up about this whole situation.
Not really worked up over the Buzz thing, just get worked up over condescending comments ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nothing pisses me off much more than condescending remarks from people who don't know me. "Simmer" and "Calm down, sir" are both the kind of remarks that can send me over the edge when I'm pissed and feel like I have a right to be. I understand why he's pissed, he explained it, and I firmly believe he has every right to feel like he feels, and this is as appropriate a place to vent about it as any.
I know, you weren't talking to me, but I still got my back up at the suggestion for him to "simmer".
chill bruh
you mad bro?
;^)
Nah, I'm simmered and totally chilled. Sorry. I have tendency toward prickly thin skin in the morning anyway, but I've also been on prednisone for more than a month and get to 'roiding pretty seriously occasionally. I'll blame it on that. Yeah, that's the ticket.
I had an extremely unpleasant experience with a store manager that sprang to mind when I read "Simmer", but it's my bad to bring that here, and my post was inappropriate.
Your post was fine. Just joking with you.
You said you live out in the Northern Neck? We need to meet for a beer sometime, trade VT stories.
Live in Mathews. Glad to do it. Where you?
King George.
Well, not around the corner, huh? Tappahannock is about half way and I've been known to range that far on a whim to get an NN burger or a seafood lunch at Rowe's. Maybe we can hook up there sometime. I'm sure the appendix that is the Middle Peninsula isn't in your usual stomping grounds either. Anyway, feel free to contact me at new river angler (all one word) at hotmail dot com so we can at least touch base if either of us is in the proximity.
NN Burger in Kilmarnock is fantastic. I'm sure the one in Tappahannock is just as good.
If you ever venture as far as Montross, Yesterday's has long surpassed Lowreys (sadly) as our go-to place when visiting the area. That'll get you closer to Little Bobby, too.
Yeah, I said Rowe's (thinking of Mrs. Rowe's in Staunton, also a place that isn't what it once was) when Lowrey's was what I meant. Never heard of Yesterday's, I'll look it up. Did have a really good lunch at Lowrey's several weeks ago at a half-way meeting with an old Hokie pal who lives in Fredericksburg. Their hushpuppies are still among my top best I've ever had, though. As for the NN Burger, I've eaten at both places and to be honest, the one in Tappahannock was plain ole better than the one in Kilmarnock, though that one is good, too. I think the Tappahannock one was the first, but it definitely ranks among the best burgers I've had.
Lowery's is nowhere close to as good as it was 25 years ago. Best seafood I used to get was over in Westmoreland Co. near Coles Point in a small restaurant that I can't remember the name of.
I can't believe I haven't been to NN Burger yet, if it's that good.
Hey, it's a hamburger, but they do it up right. Lots of topping options, cooked on a big fire grill to order in front of you, quality meat, and for me, big enough for a snack later. I think I remember some decent beer options, as well, but don't quote me on that. Like I said, the Kilmarnock one didn't impress me like the Tappahannock one, but since Kilmarnock is closer, you might try it when you're around.
If I'm around that area (you never know), I'll definitely (a) give it a try, and (b) hit you up to let you know I'm in town, and if possible (c) buy you a beer.
Believe me, if I could give you more than just one leg...
I can confirm NN Burger is on point.
Yeah, you're up here *puts hand at eye level*
And we're gonna need you down here *puts hand at waist level*
mmmmkay?
Summer, Donna.....? "Now say it slow"
Summ-er Don-na.... "slower"
Su-ma do-na....
"yes! SIMMAH DOWN NAH"
I think the Hokie Nation is talking about it as much as Aggie Nation...if not more.......
So while A&M was in the midst of a season that resulted in a Sweet Sixteen run they were already aiming to hire Buzz? I can understand all of the geographic, cultural, and financial reasons Buzz would want the job, but that seems like a big red flag to me.
But hey, bet on yourself I guess. Buzz has no reason to think he can't win somewhere at this point. Guy's damn good at what he does.
I believe it, Texas schools are so toxic in culture.
Edit: Remember that the Jimbo deal was a rumor in September. A&M didnt care about what was going to happen during the season. Could be same for Buzz too, I dont know.
My brother went to TAMU and I've spent two summers in the college station/Bryan area. It's an odd culture in a lot of ways, but nowhere near toxic. It's a close knit community in spite of it's size and the people there really care about the school.
The reason that Texas A&M has been on edge about their head coach the last few seasons is that Billy Kennedy was diagnosed with early onset Parkinson's in 2011 and has apparently shown more of the effects in recent years that left a large part of the Alumni base wondering if he could handle the stress of it. The losing season gave them the chance to get it done for basketball reasons.
I guess there's no going out on your own terms there.
There is if your own terms is retirement.
I think he got fired.
Though this way, he gets paid.
I've heard the deal with Texas A&M is 10 years, $52 million and VT offered Buzz $4.6 million per year and he turned it down so there must be some dissension between Buzz and Whit. $4.6 million is doubling Buzz's current salary which is substantial especially for VT.
If they offered that much, they certainly gave Buzz the option to stay.
Buzz was at $3mill this season. $4.6 isn't quite double. A solid raise, but not double.
Thanks for the correction but still substantial raise and not that far off from $5.2 million if my sauce is correct.
Nothing against Buzz and what he has to inevitably do, but, I'd take a $1.6 million salary raise every time.
😝
wow
I don't think money is everything, especially with Buzz, the home factor is important, but an extra $600k is nothing to sneeze at.
No state income tax in Texas either, right?. That'll up the gap by a few hundred k.
Usually what isn't gathered through income taxes is made up for in property, sales, or other taxes... if you actually reside, work, eat, play, etc... physically in said state.
Hmm, i see what you are saying for us nobody's with modest income, but a ~6% differential in what you take home when your salary is 5mil + is a few hundred thousand dollars, seems very unlikely to be made up for in property tax, sales tax and the general cost of living.
I live in New England, I am envious of those NH residents who also work in that state, they have the best gig going. No state income tax, no sales tax, liquor is dirt cheap, property tax rate is among the highest in america, but it doesn't come close to equaling out.
Good point... Unless Buzz buys a $5 mil property. I imagine there aren't too many of those around College Station. The ones that are probably include larger tracts of land. Still, in my experience the take home delta isn't the windfall it's made out to be once all is said and done with... NH is truly exceptional in many ways.
I always think about those athletes that land mega-deals in these kind of equations. How do Florida/Texas based teams not sell themselves #1 on the lack of income tax. Plus those two states do have HCOL cities, but tons of stupid cheap places to live in, you can have a McMansion for what i can find crappy 1000sq ft homes for locally. Living in Blacksburg for those few years at VT was a total shock to my understanding of living expenses, when your share of an apt is like 300 bucks.
For a tangent, I wonder how Giancarlo Stanton's 25m AAV deal works since he got traded to the Yankees from the Marlins. I guess the state of NY has a nearly 9% tax on income over ~1.1m. Florida has none. A potential difference of 2.25m in what he'd take home annually is insane.
Athletes are paid per game and they have to file state taxes in each state that they play a game in since technically the income is earned in that state. It certainly helps if you play all your home games in a state with no state income tax but it isn't a complete relief. It is a mess for Hockey players who have earned income in Canada and the US.
TIL, thanks for sharing!
and a minor mess for baseball and football players due to the Japan/Australia games for baseball and even a London one coming up and then the Mexico and London games for the NFL. If I was the players association, getting everyones taxes done would be something I would consider negotiating a contract for all the players on. At a minimum, an accountant that provides the documentation necessary to make it simple for tax purposes.
Shit, dude seems to be right about http://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/809530#comment-809530
Guess your sauces check out
Listening to interviews, I've always gotten the sense that Buzz doesn't want to coach for much longer. Not that he doesn't love coaching, but he has said before that he really hates being away from his family as much as he is and has even said something along the lines of "I'm not sure how much longer I'll be doing this." If that's the case, I can't imagine a ten year contract.
I remember him saying all this.
If this is true, it justifies staying at VT where he could continue building this program and cement his legacy as a great basketball coach earlier in his career. If he goes to aTm, he will need a couple years to build a powerhouse. Makes his ability to spend more time with his family delayed at least a few years.
Kids grow fast, he would miss what he states he doesn't want to miss.
Sooooo Greg Marshall went to high school in Roanoke?
Cave Spring, I believe.
Bring him home!
Especially if it means keeping Cronin away from Cassell. The Whit-Cronin connection is scaring me. Do. Not. Want.
Wow! If these numbers are accurate, than:
1) There's no way to say VT didn't go all in to keep Buzz (financially)
2) Buzz is leaving for other reasons (family, his vision of program, etc...)
Does there come a point (financially) where the benefits of keeping Buzz at $4.6M a year is outweighed by the opportunities of using the money in other ways?
If you look at some of the successful, long-term coaches salaries at other public institutions (Boeheim, Izzo, etc...) they are paid around $3-3.5M. At some point they must have said, I know I can be paid more but let's use the additional money for other things in the program (assistants salaries, facilities upgrades, etc)
God Bless (and thanks) to Buzz for all he has done for VT. But if we get a high quality $2.5-3M coach and use the other monies elsewhere, would it be a better long-term strategy???
We are not the Yankees financially, but maybe we can win like the Cardinals.
Yes absolutely. I think we're in a position that if we get to that dollar amount we're better to hire an up and comer (Oats) and still having success. $4.6 million would put him like 3rd overall in NCAA Basketball Salaries, we're not the kinda of school that has that money to spend.
Well this news is a real Buzz kill
Fuck Alabama and Fuck a&m
1. Long time Buzz assistant so he could likely keep the culture that they've built over the years
2. Good recruiter (Canada Connection)
3. Would be a first time head coach so we could likely get him relatively cheap
Jim Weaver, is that you?
Hey it worked with James Johnson didn't it...wait a sec...did I just change my own mind??!?!?
Been there done that. I don't think so. Not the conference for 1st timers.
Not the biggest fan hiring from within based on past experiences, however is it possible since we have heard absolutely nada (outside of a Cronin rumor which I put very little faith in because I don't want him) regarding who Whit is scouting? The Texas A&M rumors have been out there for weeks, not hearing anything from our side makes me think this is plausible
And because we haven't heard anything, that means there are no other options.
#amidoingitright?
Not at all. Just rambling about how this may be plausible
OR...we hire a head coach and keep McNeilly on staff for his recruiting. If some of those rumored offers Whit made to Buzz to stay are true, we should have the resources to do that.
If we hire a new coach and McNeilly stays I'll be absolutely dumbstruck.
we said it about Bud too, didn't we?
Yeah but McNeilly has been with Buzz since he was a player. He's Buzz's right hand man.
I'm not sure this makes your argument any more convincing
Well the Bud/Frank parallel would be Bud following Frank to retirement and golfing and spending time with his grandkids. McNeilly following Buzz to work for him at A&M makes much more sense.
And I'm just saying that we were surprised when Bud stayed under Fuente, and that saying "Yeah but McNeilly has been with Buzz since he was a player. He's Buzz's right hand man" doesn't do much to further the argument against it because those same things are true of Bud/Beams.
Not a perfectly mirrored situation, sure. But it's not like we've never been shocked by assistants sticking around before.
It's not like Beamer went to another job. He retired. If Beamer left for another job it would have been pretty much impossible to get him (edit: meaning Bud) to stay in Blacksburg under another coach.
Agreed. Until he gets a head coaching job, I'd be shocked to see McNeilly on a sideline that doesn't include Buzz Williams.
He played for Buzz at New Orleans and he's been with him ever since.
Only way I see McNeilly leaving Buzz at this point is for a head coaching gig. Otherwise, expect McNeilly and likely Jeff Reynolds to be on the A&M staff next year and if Isaac Chew had managed to keep his nose clean, he likely would have been there too. The bigger issue will be that the majority of the new staff will also likely look to follow Buzz so you lose momentum across the program.
Next year is going to be a really bad year for VT basketball. We may only end up with 3 scholarship players returning (Bede, Kabongo, Wilkins).
I trust that Whit is luring in a quality candidate, I just hope VT fans/alums can enter into and support the process once again.
One day I hope to see two things from VT before I die... 1. A great OL without excuses. Period. None of this, well 2 guys graduated and we have a new center bullshit. I want to see a great dominant OL with no fucking excuses. 2. A BBall roster with 12 fucking scholarship healthy players on it. Pipe dreams, I know.
In said dream, how many of these fellas are over 6'6"?
5
Do we really care if the players are getting laid? I mean, it's the thing to do for athletes, or so I hear, but do we really care? ;^)
I don't want to brag, but I was a walk-on on the fucking team until Seth Dooley took my spot.
I finally secured a spot on the team during semesters 8 and 9 at Tech. Took 3 and a half years of trying. I did play one game for Furman's team during my sophomore year. You just have to know how to game the transfer portal.
When where you on the team? I think I was there somewhere between '68 and '70.
Those were nice years to be on the team.
Guess we are operating under the assumption that Blackshear follows Buzz and Nolley never suits up for VT? Man that is depressing.
I think we kind of have to, right?
For beginners, players, and rightfully so, have much more power than they used to. So when their coach leaves, they have an opportunity to look for other opportunities. This brings me to my next point...
If there is anything to the Cronin rumors, I'm not sure any of our current players could make the transition from Buzz to Cronin (I'm operating on things I've read about from various types of people connected to him including players).
Obviously we can't control if Buzz stays or leaves, he seems to have all the cards in this instance. But, what we can control is, who do we get to replace Buzz and I feel that this is going to be a decision that really defines what type of AD Whit is. IMO, the Fuente signing hasn't played out yet. So. I'll just sit back and watch how it all plays out.
I've heard from a few coaches and other administrators in college athletics (none from VT, other #sauces) that Buzz is a genius and knows how to get it done, which we all knew. But more than that, he is just high maintenance for AD's, because he doesn't stop, just goes and does whatever he thinks needs to be done to get the job done without regard to resources. An example, using up the year's allocated jet miles very quickly and just expecting more. One #sauce said he basically has a relatively short shelf life at any one school, because the AD's can only stand it for so long.
I totally buy this. And it isn't really a knock on Buzz. He is who he is, he's done an outstanding job, and he loves doing his job well and having a positive impact on the student-athletes. It sounds as though he doesn't have much respect for the boundaries of limited resources. Resources will not be a problem at A&M.
I think Whit is the type of AD who can handle a personality like Buzz and would do what is reasonable to keep him happy and keep him around. But Whit won't do anything to the detriment of the overall athletic department.
I love Buzz and will follow him and his teams for the rest of his career. But the more info I hear, the less likely it seems to me that Buzz and Whit could make it work for the long haul, even if A&M wasn't calling. I could obviously be wrong, and would love it if I was, but this is my honest and current opinion based on people who have had interactions with Buzz and his past AD's.
He won't burn through aTm's resources.
Just maybe their patience.
Won't have to worry about the jet miles at Texas A&M.
I can see it now.... buzz rolling up like....
im so tired of tracking planes in and out of aTm. where is air traffic control when you need them. shut their shhhh down!
Yes, Buzz took over a dumpster fire. Yes, I get it. Yes we are in the sweet 16 for the first time in 50 years. Understood. But Calipari and Izzo Jet access should come with Calipari and Izzo wins... Buzz is 2-2 in the NCAA tourney at VT and has never made the ACC tourney semi's. If he sticks around and gets us to a couple more sweet 16s maybe he can get unlimited Jet miles. Just saying. Fuente doesn't have carte blanche either.
I heard similar things from a Marquette source when he left there and from a VT source in his first year here.
"Coaches, don't put me in a position to choose between you and the department, because I'll choose the department every time." - Virginia Tech AD Whit Babcock
Man, there is a lot of 'known' information out there for a coach who "shocked the world" when he inexplicably left a basketball program in Marquette for Virginia Tech for less money with no leaks until it happened.
Ding ding ding. Cannot stress this enough, Buzz is Buzz's agent. So only buzz knows if buzz is leaving.
What percentage chance would you say there is that Buzz is the head coach of VT next season?
What's our percentage chance to win the natty?
Honestly I'd say about 2%. A likely path to the Final Four through Duke and Michigan State is as difficult as it gets and the final two games would be extremely challenging as well.
538 gives the current probabilities for our season's outcome:
Win Sweet 16: 25%
Win Elite 8: 14%
Win Final 4: 6%
Win Championship: 2%
Link: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2019-march-madness-predictions/?ex_...
Interesting that 538 has us as a favorite (14/25 = 56%) to make the Final Four if we get past Duke. Looking at specific matchups: they have us at 49% against MSU and 69% (nice) against LSU. Also our championship chances jump up to 10% after a Duke win.
Gotta admit it feels pretty good when objective data backs up a number I calculated using odds of winning each game I made up on the fly.
I don't see how making the Final 4 would change anything but lets just win the whole thing and see how it plays out.
Meh, I mean if Buzz is going to leave, he's going to leave. Can't worry about that. What I do know is that Whit has a pretty impeccable hiring record right now, and I suspect if Buzz does leave, we'll be just fine going forward.
I'm unsure how any of this is relevant to what I said but I'll stick with my original comment. Let's win the whole damn thing.
Heck, look at Whit's hires for baseball and softball! I'm impressed!
Looking back, I'm surprised that I've been surprised by the rumors of his departure. Buzz has always been "Team Buzz" first. Even his social media presence is about Buzz the person and coach generally speaking, not Buzz the coach of Virginia Tech men's basketball. I think this has been discussed here before. Buzz is loyal to Buzz and his vision of his career and future. He is only loyal to the program so long as that loyalty brings him closer to his own goals. This is totally in line with every one of our career approaches so I don't fault the man. If anything, it's probably our fault for expecting loyalty in line with our love of our school. Never going to happen. I'm just going to enjoy this run and hope Whit doesn't FUBAR the replacement hiring process.
I know this is a meaningless nit pick, but he has never been fond of wearing VT gear either. It's always different colors- green blue purple stuff and even his VT stuff is not typically orange and maroon. Just bugs me. When you see Fuente with a recruit, he is wearing a VT 1/4 Zip or shirt 95% of the time. Buzz? Never- its a light blue motivational shirt or a team USA jacket or anything not orange or maroon. Has always bugged me.
His first or second year he had the unforgettable maroon and orange argyle sweater. This past week he had a maroon and orange tie and sock combo in the team photo, and a maroon / orange tie during one of the games .
Buzz's motivational shirts are part of his brand. His brand that got us to 3 straight tournaments and a sweet 16. Meaningless nit pick indeed. What's the point?
And for the post game "culture pic" he was in a brown and yellow shirt that had nothing to do with VT. The point is that the head coach of VT hoops, should wear VT gear and not marquette or high school or purple gear when representing the program.
I agree, but dont expect him to wear it 24/7/365. I just feel like this reads as "he didn't even wear VT colors, he never loved us / we're better off without him" before he's even gone.
I realize i'm perpetuating it by engaging in the conversation, but we're actually legitimately discussing what colors coach wears. How minuscule is that in the grand scheme of things man?
I think I'm actually more on the side of DC here. Yeah it's a nitpick, but compared to Fuente, Buzz rocks the colors less frequently. Of course we can all find the exceptions to the rule, but I think the rule stands (IE Buzz doesn't represent Tech in the ways some of us thought the head whistle might).
For me though, it's just an observation, not necessarily a point of contention or something that is going to make me confrontational with another fan...
Maybe that's just more a basketball thing. During games, they're usually wearing shirt/tie, not school gear like football coaches.
Completely agree. My eyes were opened to this a few weeks back on the TSL podcast when they brought up a similar point. I think Buzz is a great guy who I'm very proud to have as a coach, but he has never let Virginia Tech define him. He carefully crafted his contract to make sure that he would have complete autonomy to run HIS social media brand using VT basketball (which probably worked out for the best anyways!). His social media really doesn't promote VT at all beyond the fact that the team is based there so you see VT uniforms and facilities. The closest he has come to embracing VT is his love of Beamer, and even then it seems he's careful to specifically separate Beamer from VT. When Buzz came here I think he saw an opportunity, not a destination.
This. 100%. You said it better than I did but that's what I was trying to get at. Opportunity, not destination. And I don't see how any Hokie fans, after removal of the O&M glasses, can think of us any differently. The days of us having the luxury of considering our program(s) as destinations are long gone, if they even ever existed. Not being pessimistic but the reality is we're closer to mediocre than elite in football, and who knows what the round ball program will look like 8 months from now.
Just enjoy the highs, hope the lows aren't historic, and be a good Hokie fan regardless. That's my aim.
You're absolutely right that anyone objectively looking at VT football would call us mediocre, but I honestly think Fuente loves it in Blacksburg. I think if he can be successful (and I agree the jury is still out, plus there are different definitions of success) he might consider it a destination. I'm really hoping all the bull with the past year of Hokie football is in fact just late transition pains that we can put behind us because I think Fuente is a good guy who is about as close to a young Beamer as it gets these days. Oh, and it wouldn't hurt for him to take a page out of Buzz's social media policies...
FYI Buzz appears on today's Pardon My Take podcast. They interview him for about 15 minutes.
Link
Spoiler alert: Doesn't deny rumors
Fuck! Thanks for the link.
My worry for the future with this whole deal is that the program isn't ready to handle a major mix up. I feel like the program is at a very pivotal point. One the one hand, if Buzz were here a few more years, I could see us making leaps and bounds and being a steady contender, and having sustained success that we could handle a coaching transition.
I feel like right now, the success of the program is still in its infancy and not yet to a point where we can endure a coaching change and expect continued success, unless the perfect hire is made....I, ever the pessimist, think we're back to a below average ACC team for a few more years.
Maybe I'm wrong, hopefully I'm wrong.
Whit is always ready for any coach to leave at any time. He's repeated to HC crowds that he has an ever changing list of names he'll immediately call if any of his coaches leave.
If Buzz is leaving, there's a very good chance that we've already been contacting candidates, and possibly already have a guy lined up.
Oh I know, we just won't know for a while whether he tabs the right one or not.
Yup and interviews/contract discussions will be happening during the final four weekend.
During our final four run*
That may be true, but it's still going to be a disruption of the culture that was being built here. From that aspect, we're going to be starting over from ground zero. Again.
Would just love to see us hire a coach that would build a winning culture over the long term.
lol
things are nowhere near as dire now as they were when Buzz was originally hired. Good Lord, some of you all are acting like this is a fucking funeral.
I'm a glass half full guy 9/10 times, but the state of the roster does give me pause. I do have a good feeling about any potential coaching search though because Whit has never given me a reason to feel otherwise.
But even if there is some pause, we're nowhere near as bad as it was.
VT had no personality, no identity, no soul. It had managed to win a combined 4 ACC games in 2 years (I believe at least 3 of them over a bad Miami) finishing DFL in league play both years, with no recruiting momentum, a fanbase that had long since checked out, and a program that had only made one tournament appearance in like 20 years.
Now? We just finished a year ranked Top 20 from start to finish. We are in the middle of our 3rd straight tournament appearance, advancing to the Sweet 16 for the first time in school history. We are able to pull in Top 20 recruiting classes every year. Oh, and we're set to take part in the Maui Invitational later this year, and we're just about to announce a 'MAJOR renovation' to our arena.
We literally have momentum right now, whereas we were dead and buried before. Its a lot easier to sell 'capitalize on this existing momentum' than 'resurrect a dead program in the ACC' to any high profile coach. And if we're willing to give a coach a big payday, it becomes even better.
I absolutely agree with you that Whit will get this right. He's proven it enough times to accept we'll be ok and not really worry about what's going to happen the next few weeks.
Hard to maintain a culture across coaches and with only (at most) four returning players.
I think it's important to understand that team culture in basketball is almost 100% coach-driven. Our next coach will have his own style and establish his own culture, whether that starts in 2019 or 2022, it's going to be the same transition. Hopefully that next coach's approach will result in similar or better success than Buzz's culture.
Anyone can take one look at the roster and know immediately that we could look like Kevin Stallings' Pitt teams next season if we have to endure a coaching change. Assuming Nolley never suits up and KBJ transfers we'd have 4 scholarship players available. That's what scares me the most. If Buzz leaves and we don't nail a hire who can bring a good recruiting class with him it's going to be a painful couple of years at best.
Then we're just back to square one with a Sweet 16 banner and a couple of Hahn-Hurst renovations as the only actual improvements made to the program.
In that case, enjoy it while it lasts
This whole thread...
via GIPHY
Assuming Nolley never suits up and KBJ transfers the most we'd have is 4 scholarship players available assuming others don't transfer as well.
You're right, who's to say any of the other 4 don't follow. Guess it would depend on A&M's roster situation and each player's willingness to (potentially) sit a year as well.
I think there's a decent chance we retain Nolley since he has already sat out a year.
The incoming FR and Blackshear - who knows.
I think this is the only reason we keep Nolley
The positive with incoming recruits is there will be loads of playing time available and 3/4 are regional players. I could see them sticking around outside of Miller.
Agree, and if we hire an "alpha" coach, he is going to blow up and turn the roster anyway. IF we hire an unknown or a VT assistant that is not willing to aggressively recruit over players already here and get transfers/Juco, then it will look exactly like the Stallings teams - or the james johnson teams.
The only way it would really look like a Stallings or James Johnson team is if we hire a coach as bad as them.
Yes, that sounds exactly like something Whit would do....
Something no one is talking about: we are a desired coaching spot. We are a mid-top level ACC program and we are in the Maui invitational next year. In theory, I'd imagine that this would be almost the ideal situation for both prospective coach and players. If Buzz leaves, I think we can avoid becoming a dumpster fire, even if only a few players return.
The only sure way we know we'll still have Buzz coaching us this Saturday is to beat Duke Friday night. That's just the damn truth.
Related: Has anyone checked to see if Buzz's Christmas tree is on the curb in front of his house?
not in about two weeks
Can my TKPCbux go towards Buzz Williams Christmas Tree Watch? I want updates.
Don't know. But I've put in a request for info with my sources close to the Easter Bunny to see if he's been given a change of address notice in regards to the Williams Family.
How about Liberty's coach, Ritchie McKay, as a darkhorse to replace Buzz if he leaves?
They apparently are very good friends. He did some good stuff with Liberty...he coached as an assistant to Tony Bennett at UVA from 2009-2014. Proponent of the Pack line defense he learned from Bennett.
Buzz speaks very highly of him....called him an offensive genius.
I don't want anything liberty has.
Former Tony Bennett assistant at uva? No thanks
I bet we could get Will Wade for cheap....
Say what you will about the man, but he can land recruits
No one has brought up Matt McMahon (at least not that I saw in this thread, can't speak for the other two threads on the topic).
Been there for 4 years, posting up records of 17-14(division regular season champ), 16-17, 26-6 (conference champ, NCAA 1st Round), 28-5 (conference champ, NCAA 2nd round)
I hesitate to place my trust in a coach whose best two teams were carried by the best player in school history. But you can certainly say that his assistant coaches are great at scouting.
Frank Beamer's best two teams were carried by Michael Vick, the best player in VT history.
Just sayin'.
Most of us would agree that the '99 team in particular had an outstanding defense that didn't need to be carried by anyone. They wouldn't have gone undefeated but they wouldn't be pushovers either.
Murray State on the other hand is an above average OVC team at best without Ja Morant. They certainly don't make the field without him. He's the only reason they beat Belmont in their championship game.
Oates is gone to Alabama now so I'm not sure who I'd be comfortable with my biggest fear is we have a very short roster as it no pun intended and we would need to bring in a huge pile of guys if he leaves which I pray he doesn't. Buzz has done wonders to get us this far hes earned every penny if you ask me but if he goes well be in for some dark days I'm afraid
I still think there's plenty of quality candidates available. If Whit is swinging for the fences and feels like he needs to pay top dollar, Gregg Marshall would be a home run hire. As far as up & comers, I'd be happy with Wes Miller at UNCG and Ryan Odom at UMBC.
Honestly though, I'm coming around to Wofford's Mike Young as my favorite candidate. He's been at Wofford since 1989 (first as an assistant, then taking over the program as HC in 2002), so he might just be a lifer there and he even helped them through their transition from Division II. There's a lot of history there for him that might be hard to separate.
But he's a Radford native, played his college ball just down 81 at Emory & Henry, plays an attractive brand of basketball, and has made Wofford competitive year in and year out of the SoCon. Yes, that league has seen a lot of turnover with some of its better teams leaving for other conferences (like Davidson, College of Charleston, Elon), but he's only had one season below .500 since 2007. I see him comparable to the Larrañaga hire for Miami - someone who's closer to the tail end of his coaching career but has program-building experience.
I think we're bound to go through a couple transition years regardless of who's coaching. Next year we're likely going to see a few grad transfers as key contributors. This will help even out the scholarships and hopefully remain competitive as the head coach begins building up his recruiting classes.
If we're going down that route, there are better candidates. I'd rather have Nathan Davis: Four Patriot League regular season titles, two NCAA tournament appearances, DC Native, RMC grad.
Young has interviewed for other jobs over the years. Apparently he is just a down right terrible interviewee and cannot get past the first interview. But his record has to stand for something.
Does Wes Miller have the pedigree yet to jump to an ACC school? Seems to me he might still be a couple years away from that. How many years has he been at UNCG?
I just checked and was shocked to find out he's been there for 8 seasons already. Which means he became a head coach at the age of 28!
It looks like he took a while to figure things out too. Here's his season results from his time at UNCG:
2011-12 (interim): 11-11
2012-13: 9-22
2013-14: 14-18
2014-15: 11-22
2015-16: 15-19
2016-17: 25-10
2017-18: 27-8
2018-19: 29-7
Here's a solid article about how he's turned around the program:
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2019/2/27/18239483/wes-miller-has-changed-the-game-at-unc-greensboro-socon-recruiting-francis-alonso-seniors
Not too surprising that someone who took his first head coaching job at 28 would take a while to figure out what works and what doesn't.
No Mike Young. He's been ther for 17 years, 9 of which have been sub .500. It's really hard to go sub .500 in whatever that conference is.
He's on a pretty regular 4-year good cycle. When his players are seniors, he's good. Otherwise, bad to awful.
I'm frankly surprised Wofford hasn't fired him a few times looking at his record. We can do so, so much better than Mike Young.
You're surprised Wofford hasn't fired a coach whom has made 5 NCAA tournaments and won 4 tournament games in the last 10 years at a program that only been D1 since 1997? Young had won more tournament games at Wofford since 2010 than Virginia Tech had since 1980.
I'm not saying he's the best coach available or we should hire him but Wofford has been as successful as nearly any mid major in the entire country during his tenure.
If his mind is truly made up about going to A&M it is more than likely due to his love for the state of Texas . A&M basketball has always been an afterthought . Sucks to hear
Even more of a reason to win the whole damn thing.
On XM last night they were speculating that it's possible that Arkansas with their huge pockets could make a run at Buzz as well
That's cute.
aTm 2017 Revenue: $211mil
Arkansas 2017 Revenue: $129mil
(VT 2017 Revenue: $88 mil)
Plus, it's the wrong state (Buzz isn't from there).
Woah, woah, woah Aggies
Emma is here to save us
The intro logo (15 seconds in) is now Maroon and Grey for these videos Already refreshing brand color. Must be gone /s
You say /s but damn those do match A&M's colors mighty closely.
definitely looks like the one in his new twitter banner
The more I read on Cronin, the more I don't want him in Blacksburg.
No likey
Whit used to be his boss. If anyone knows how much of a prick that guy can be, its Whit.
The more I hear about him, the more I want us to throw all our monies at Gregg Marshall (who would be an A+ hire for us, and would build a power program in the ACC)
Might be tough...he's making over 3million already, turned down $4million at Bama a few years ago
Our only real shot with Marshall is the A&M pitch but without fuck you money. Bump his salary a tad and sell him on this:
Bama isn't ACC.
ACC in basketball carries weight. If we're prepared to throw serious cash at a coach in this league, opportunities will present itself. We also have an ace up our sleeve in that we're going to go through a major renovation of Cassell in the next couple years, which should significantly improve our recruiting profile for a school that already has recruiting momentum. All these things together, and outside of the likes of traditional powers like UCLA, there aren't many jobs on the market which will be better in the long run. Especially with Whit as the new coach's boss.
One thing that I just recently found out about Gregg Marshall is his ties to the state. Didn't even realize that he played high school basketball in Roanoke, went to Randolph-Macon, and got a masters from UR while he was an assistant at R-MC.
So I guess you could sell the guy on "coming home," but he spent a long time in South Carolina too during his stops at College of Charleston (where he met his wife) and Winthrop. And now he's been in Wichita for almost a decade and a half, so the "this is home" narrative might not sway him.
I think the ACC is certainly a good sell, I'm just skeptical that a guy like Marshall will give VT a long look given the jobs he's rumored to have turned down in the past. But hey, you never know.
I am still hoping that Buzz decides Blacksburg is the place to stay and raise his family. He is coaching against the best in the business in the hands down best basketball conference. The money is already pretty damn good and he doesn't want to deal with an unrealistic fan base and administration at Texas A&M.
Now I am going to stick my fingers back in my ears and my head back in the sand. Nanananana
I think the ACC thing is played out. How many of you would turn down a $2MM raise and the chance to be back in the state you prefer to live in just so you can say you coach in the best conference.
That depends....for a $2MM raise from my current salary, I'll move damn near anywhere. A $2MM raise when your already making $3MM? More to think about
Do you mean overplayed?
Overstated?
Not sure what you mean about the ACC thing being "played out."
That's assuming we're not offering him a raise as well
That would not be a wise assumption to make
If we are looking for a fast riser than we might look at bringing Ryan Odom back to Cassell. He spent 7 years as an assistant under SG, and has UMBC humming along at over 20 wins a season and oh just happened to coach his team to the first victory over a #1 seed as a #16 seed in NCAA tournament history. He is someone that likely would consider making Blacksburg a permanent home.
What about UC Irvine's Russell Turner? Foingba nice job with the anteaters. From one strange mascot to another.
Foingba
Foingba anagrams to Fang Bio.
Odom has stated that he hopes the BooHoos win it all. Sorry, can't have him.
Another article, this time with quotes from Whit:
It seems inevitable
I don't know how you got "it seems inevitable" out of that article.
It's mostly just a big question mark, but absolutely the elephant in the room.
by the time this is all done, your posting the phrase "elephant in the room" is gonna send me into a PTSD seizure...
The waiting is the hardest part.
May he rest in peace. He was a cool cat.
I'm not reading it that way...
"I don't think there's an answer to that when I have no evidence other than what you guys have writing," he told Yahoo Sports.
If anything that article gives me more hope that I didn't have just to make the soul crushing news that he's leaving hurt worse.