Seriously? How bout Knowles gifting an INT? I can't blame Thomas for going outside the box and trying to do everything himself, cause really, he's getting zero help. How bout Meyer dropping a TD pass? You think Watkins or any of FSU's WRs drop that? Point the finger at Logan all you want, but the fact of the matter is he's the only weapon this offense has.
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so many penalties, sub par offensive line play, head scratching play calling, WR's that are on and off...I feel bad for the guy. This game was partially his fault but man...i hope he gets drafted by a team with a good starting QB who can work him up, and then give him his chance...if he still sucks--then fine, I am wrong, but my guess is, he'll be pretty good given the right opportunity.
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Yes, but did you watch that pick-6? That is the absolute, most completely unacceptable throw you could ever make during a football game. Throwing across your body, under pressure, falling backwards, across the middle without looking. A winning QB NEVER makes that play.
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I'll give you that one, it was a really really bad play but come on man, that wasn't the only bad play in the game. Blame goes to so many so Dr of hokienomics and other haters are being pissy
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My argument for benching Logan is simple. Every game, he's making absolutely unforgivable mistakes, and it seems to get out of hand. You see him on the sideline, he's shaking off his coaches and ignoring them. His head is just not in the right place, and he needs to be sat down so that he can get a clue, get focused again, and start playing better.
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Honestly I think the coaches see what a lot of us see, but don't always want to acknowledge. Logan has a minimal amount of talent surrounding him. His favorite weapon is a walk-on turned scholarship receiver who got injured and a TE who was the 4th string before the season started. I would trade every player on this offense except for LT and maybe TE14 for someone else's offense, that is how bad they are. LT makes some bad decisions but he does it because he things (and rightfully so in many cases) that the game is on his shoulders. I will always point back to 2011..he was inconsistent, yes, but the talent surrounding him allowed him to be a much better QB.
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Yall Logan lovers make it seem like our offensive players are just complete trash and Logan is out there looking around with the Eli Manning face hoping he can get some help. That's really not the case and I think we all know that. When Logan played well, our offensive guys looked good because they were given the opportunity to do so. Even today, nobody on our offense looked as bad as Logan did. (Maybe Charley Meyer did but why the fuck was he even in the game in the first place. Meyer is irrelevant). Nobody on our offense played worse than Logan Thomas did this week or last week. If you disagree then I don't think you understand how football works.
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Meyer was in the game because Byrn got hurt. And look at the sheer number of freshmen starting/contributing. And these aren't 5-star guys either. That should tell you something. Logan is pretty much playing with a glorified HS all-star team. There were plenty of times today when Logan looked great, but his receivers or his line let him down. I'm not saying that was the case 100% of the time, but it was enough to the point where I can't completely blame Logan.
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Which would make Tyrod a true sophomore who split time his freshman year. Can't compare his sophomore year and Logan's 5th year, third year starting. However, it also isn't fair to compare anyone to Danny Coale. Probably the most reliable receiver in Virginia Tech history.
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In Tyrod's second year starting he went TD:INT 13:5 and in his third he went 24:5, not to mention those years he also went 10-2 and 11-3. But prior to Danny Coale going Danny Coale all over the field he was a walk on that I am sure that everyone was saying had no skill. He was never a 5 star guy. I am not saying that anyone on the field right now is Danny Coale but they have proven to be capable at times, so calling them a high school all star team in inaccurate. The same coaches that deemed Logan to be talented to be the starter at quarterback also believe that the wide receivers are talented enough to be starters at VT.
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Also doing some reading on Wikipedia (reliable I know but I don't remember/I'm not going to go looking it up)
After the loss, Taylor started against Duke. After committing 5 turnovers in the first half, he was pulled from the game and replaced by Sean Glennon. Taylor then started next week at UVA. He performed well including a 73 yard run. He threw 12 for 18 for 137 yards 1 touchdown while rushing 16 times for 137 yards.
All that was during his sophomore season. He was pulled for committing 5 turnovers and got the start the next game and played well. LT committed 4, and then committed 4 again. I believe that LT gives Tech the best chance to win I truly do, but I also don't believe that when he is playing poorly that taking him out is a bad idea either.
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I wasn't there. That was one of like 2 Hokie games I missed while in college. I am pretty sure it was thanksgiving or fall break or something along those lines. I am from NJ and had been home since I had left for Tech so I went home and missed the game.
But who down voted you and for what? Here's a leg.
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Sean Glennon didn't have a problem. Tyrod had as many completions as he did INTs that day and I remember one fumble being as mind boggling as LT's INT.
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Danny Coale may have been a walk on but he was a FOOTBALL PLAYER! He was always open and caught anything near him - and yes Big 10 replay officials - HE CAUGHT THAT ONE TOO!!!
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That kind of comment gets posted because the opposite usually gets thrown out "Logan Haters" when he has a miracle game....there are usually three or four posts of "Take that Logan Haters" I don't tend to fall in either category but at this point, I would like to see what Leal can do with a week of prep as the designated starter, just to get an idea of what to expect next year......Logan does enough damage (regardless of whether its the offensive line not blocking or the receivers not getting open) he throws balls too hard into places that shouldn't be attempted too often or loses the ball scrambling when most QBs would have thrown the ball away and with that a world class defense is wasted and I think he should consider taking some snaps at TE to showcase his ability there. At this point, if we beat Miami (assuming Miami is going to lose to FSU tonight as they are down 21-7 right now, and Duke doesn't lose again, Duke goes to the conference title game even if we win out.
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Your wrong, Thomas does make mistakes, but he is asked to do way too much. He was hurt pretty early in this one. No other team sans GT asks their QB to run into a defensive front every first down play.
The offensive line couldn't protect him against a depleted BC d-line. With no other rushing threat, it becomes easy to focus attention on Thomas in both rushing and passing.
The bottom line is this coaching staff is just as bad as last years. When something works, they stop doing it, and when something doesn't work, they to force it to prove that it could at some point.
Also this oline is just plain bad.
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I hate to say this, but put Sean Glennon in Logan's shoes, and EVERYONE would be screaming for him to step aside. That guy took a lot more crap for WAY BETTER PERFORMANCES AND DECISION MAKING.
Put Logan back at TE to up his NFL Draft Stock...
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He was a top TE recruit in High School - remember the one handed catch he caught from Tyrod for the Touchdown? 6'6", fast, redicuously athletic. Sounds like a TE prospect to me.
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Let me hit you with some knowledge back... he's been playing, practicing, and working solely as a QB his whole time at VT. One play doesn't mean he's a tight end. Heck, Joe Flacco of the Baltimore Ravens caught a pass in an NFL game once, but he's a superbowl MVP QB. No one said, oh wow, here's a big, tall guy who caught a pass, let's make him a TE right now!
Having him switch positions in the middle of the season his senior year is just...
Nevermind, I have no nice words to use for that.
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Not necessarily switch him back during the year - but he could definitely be marketed to the NFL as a TE after the season is over, IF, and only IF, there is really a Lloyd Christmas chance of him ever making it as a QB at the pro level. A handful of QB's in college have turned out to be pretty good pro's as receivers, and Logan definitely would be a hot commodity if that were the case in the future.
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Hmm stiney wasn't all that bad in retrospect either...i am just gonna keep my mouth shut and watch the games...(i am not insulting you but i disliked glennon, and stiney too and it turns out, I wouldn't mind having them around today)
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I prefer Loeffler a lot more than Stiney, don't get me wrong. Loffler's dedication to making the WR's actually run routes is fantastic but probably has a lot to do with the offensive woes we have seen. I can be quoted as saying that BC was lining up 5-7 guys in the box all day long (which means RUN RUN RUN) and Loeffler didn't. My guess is that is an indication of how bad the line and the running game is..I just don't understand all the shotgun formations (which is where I wouldn't mind having stinespring back...power I on the 1 yardline.
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LT's fumble on the goal line that was recovered by Miller is the reason Loeffler prefers LT in the shotgun. But, running out of the shotgun 99% of the time limits what we can do in the running game.
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THIS^^^ I can't stand running out of the shotgun all the time. You hand the ball off 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage with no momentum. Half the time it is going to the outside which is even worse. If we want to run the ball we need to get back to smash mouth football where we line up in the power formations and stuff it down their throat. We aren't a spread team and definitely don't have the personnel for it so I don't know why we are trying to model Oregon when we should be modeling an Alabama or Stanford.
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I agree and it pisses me off that beamer basically said we cant win unless we run the hell out of the qb. We have success running the football with our Rbs when logan is lined up under center
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I wouldn't say the worst--he has broken records. I think it is the way that he loses that makes him feel the worse. When glennon played, every game I had my fingers crossed. When Logan plays--he gets my hopes up, then crushes them brutally every game. I think he is better than most QB's that have come through here, but he inconsistency makes it feel worse
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That is to be expected considering he has the most attempts by far, nearly 300 more than Tyrod and counting. He's tied with Randall for career TD's, with 300+ more attempts. Quickly approaching Don Strock for most INT's.
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Will Furrer: Hokie QB from 1988-91.
Drafted and played a few years in the NFL, Europe.
Played backup for Elway.
Smart guy that got to the show and survived with minimal damage.
Great Hokie.
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Eronius on both counts! Deshazo was a pioneer! Along w al Clark. Also both of those QBs took us to the national spotlight and delivered. One beat Texas and the other #beatthebrakesofbama
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Wow, the negativity has reached an all time low on this site. It's like thesabre around here. I still stand behind LT3 and this team but the lack of a run game is terrible
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I wish I could have as much faith as you. Trust in a team that has provided absolutely zero reason to do so. I truthfully admire your resolve (seriously, no b.s.).
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Zero reason? How about this d. Even in a bad day they kept it winnable. I don't have trust in the offense but that's no reason to bail on a team completely
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Yes, yes. Everyone jump for joy and don't speak about the elephant in the room! I'm all for not wanting to bash this team. They are young guys and pour their hearts and souls into this team. However, I see nothing wrong with pointing out that the offense is consistently horrifically bad. There is just maybe more constructive way to do so.
I disagree with praising something that is garbage.
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I think it's more about calling out a kid by name who just laid everything out there for us today. He played bad for sure but he's doing everything he can. No one is praising today's game, but personal attacks is going a bit far.
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I hear you but I just get along with the fact that people will vent here. A day or two afterwards people calm down. It's about the same amount of time it takes for me to get over it.
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At least 3 of those INTs were right off the hands/chest of receivers. Boyd or Winston make those same throws to their receivers, my money says they have 3 more completions. Thomas has NOTHING around him. Can't blame the guy for trying to make a play all by himself. He made one really bad decision today. Get over yourself.
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Dude, I'm not blaming Logan for every loss we've had this season, and I'm not blaming this loss entirely on him either. One player cannot solely lose a football game.
But get your head out of the dirt. He's playing bad. He's had three good games all season. Blaming the line, receivers, and coaching can only go so far with a redshirt, three-year starter. He made awful decisions today, as he did last week. Those, you cannot defend. I will not say Logan is a bad quarterback, but I will say he is far, far away from being a smart one. And while he doesn't lose us the games, his throws most certainly put us in a better position to lose the games. Consistently.
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And a lot of his throws put us in a position to win the game. How different would these boards look if Meyer held on to that ball and fell into the endzone? I understand he's not perfect, but guess what? Boyd just threw a pick against UVA. All I'm saying is that the guy doesn't deserve to get lynched after every incompletion. People expect and demand perfection who have zero idea what goes into playing on that level. Again, I saw one very bad decision (the pick 6), which was made under pressure (yet again) and he was trying to make a play. I can understand the pressure he feels to do that because there is literally nothing around him on that offense. Without him, we don't win more than 4 games this season, tops.
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And I don't think he should be benched, that would be absurd. But he deserves blame when blame is due. If he doesn't make throws to put us in position to win the game, then he's not doing his job.
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His mistakes were bad and his performance wasn't good enough to carry the team, but the man had 391 yards passing. Our rushing attack? 55 yards. If LT doesn't produce as much as he does, we probably get skunked.
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What bothers me about this is that the only reason our rushing attack produced so little is because we didn't use it. Our running backs got 9 carries. I keep hearing that Logan has no help and I wonder how anyone even knows. I think it'd be cool to not put the entire burden of offensive production on Logan. I love the dude and hate what's happening to him. I really think the idea that Logan has to do everything for the offense to have success is unfair to him and unnecessary. We have to start using our running backs.
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Fully agree. I don't know why we're not rushing more in general. I could see why we were going to the air so much; it seemed like BC was giving us latitude to do it and selling out on trying to stuff the run, but some of the plays on the ground did get good yardage.
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Have to agree, people are sticking up for him a little too much. Admit he made mistakes and the game in majority goes to him. And if we win and he made good decisions, praise him. Realize the truth about what happened and don't make excuses or point fingers.
There needs to be some major changes.
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Everyone on the Bench Logan train will just have to have the "I can't wait til he is gone" mentality because he is not going anywhere. If/when FSU wins tonight, we still have a shot to win the division next week against an overrated Miami team. This team for the duration of the year is going to be Logancentric so just deal with it. Next year we can see how the offense plays as a team instead of focusing so much on one player.
Also, anyone who thinks we will barely squeak by UVA obviously hasn't watched a game of theirs. They are just downright awful.
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Logan I don't think is the worst. Just maybe the most sporadic. I have never seen someone look like an NFL starter on 1 play and then like my 10 year old nephew the next play. He is a great guy and deserves to finish his career off as the starter though. No doubt. I just wish he could be a lil more consistent.
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Glennon had a higher career completion percentage than Thomas. They both threw INTs at about the same clip (3% of their throws). Their yards/attempt is similar (7.4 YPA for Glennon, 7.1 for Thomas). It's entirely possible that Thomas is simply Glennon wearing a mask and this is all a plot for revenge.
The biggest difference between Glennon and Thomas as a passer is that one is hated while one gets every excuse in the book made for his play.
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I stood up for Glennon and I'll stand up for Thomas. the only reason Thomas is still playing is that we don't have a Tyrod. before you say Leal is this year's Tyrod let me just say this: if he were he'd be starting.
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For what it's worth, my opinion of you, and most of the others on here whining about Thomas, is the same as that of Kim Jong Un: A screaming little toddler who doesn't really understand what's going on around him, but thinks that by throwing a little hissy fit, the world will be made all better for him. Grow up, get off the computer, learn the game, and then come back. By screaming about LT3 every week, you show just how oblivious you are to how this game works. As has been said before, Thomas has NOTHING around him. He does his best with what he's given, and you can't blame him for trying to go outside the box and win it by himself, cause he doesn't get a whole lot of help.
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Well, that's not a very nice way to describe your fellow TKP members. And my beef with Logan is how he's responded to these mistakes in the last two games. He seems to have lost that mental toughness, and I think he needs to take a step back, which would correspond to him being benched, even if for a series or two.
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Benching a player isn't always the best way to get their head back in the game. Logan's also the only leader on the offensive side of the ball, something to think about before throwing a first time starting qb in there
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Can you blame the guy? He's put his heart and soul into this team for 5 years, gets pretty much nothing but crap from his fanbase, is trying to lead an offense with zero talent around him and gets 98% of the blame when things go wrong whether he deserves it or not.
And really, I'll call it how I see it. Deal with it.
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Well I'm sorry, I just think that you can have a different opinion than someone else and still be nice about it. And I just don't see any other way to get Logan's head back in the right spot then to show him that he doesn't have to do it all himself.
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Dude he is a 5 yr player with the mind of a god damn freshman. STFU already. Those INts he threw last wk that went off the wrs hands were the wrong damn reads to begin with. I mean hell the damn site here broke it down for you. Why don't you read it and take a look at the pictures of the WRs open ALL DAMN GAME LONG. Im someone that's gonna call it like I see it. Yall can make the excuses all ya want but I sure as hell aint. Logan isn't the only problem with this team, but hes the biggest reason we lost the last 2 games and if you people cant understand that then stop following football. The wrs don't make him throw off his back foot or throw into double coverage on the wrong read. You guys act as if our wrs are terrible or something. They have been open all yr long outside of the first few games. Its up to logan to make the right read and make the accurate pass. I agree that there are certainly drops and they deserve some blame to, but no one is stinking up the joint like logan
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He plays like a freshman cause he's had 1 year of good coaching. I'm not gonna bother reading the rest cause you're just a pissy little kid. Get over it. Any time a coach teaches a kid more in 3 months than he learned in 4 years, you question the past coaching staff.
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I was not going to comment on this thread, because at the end of the day it isn't constructive, but this post. Do you even watch the games??
You stated earlier if 'he would have just caught the ball he would have fallen in for a touchdown.' Well yes of course, because for him to catch the ball he had to jump like he was Michael Jordan!! I don't have to know anything about football to know you have to throw balls guys can catch! I'm sick of seeing wide open receivers jumping, diving, waiting or going to a knee to catch a ball that Logan throws!
You can talk all day about how inept our entire offense is, but it's honestly AMAZING what happens when players get the ball in their hands! This is the one thing I am tired of about Logan and everyone that wants to go hug him after a game and want to say 'always remember 2011'. HE CAN'T HIT HIS TARGETS!! For every 10 passes he throws, one hits them where it's supposed to..I am sick of seeing him play like a middle school QB and changing the channel and watching a FCS quarterback that compared to our QB looks like a hiesman winner.
Now go down vote me..
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Yes, there were a few where it's like what in the world..but you hit a Standford in stride what happens? You hit someone on a screen with a proper pass (besides the holding call) look what can happen. Those are the throws that 90% of college QB's can and are supposed to make. I hate being in the 10%.
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And while we are on the subject, can we stop with the slow developing bubble screens? They are like our latteral running game: slow to develop and don't usually net any gains (the one Willie broke aside).
Looks a little Stiney out there sometimes. Just sayin
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just because he is going to be drafted doesn't mean he should especially at qb. Physically attributes mean squat when you have a 2 cent football mind on the field
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He's made zero progress since he's taken over when it comes to scanning the field and making the correct reads. I really have trouble remembering times when he's made more than one read on a play. If the first option isn't open, he's running it or Favre-ing that shit into triple coverage.
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Clearly you haven't watched the games or listened to any interviews. That's been easily his biggest area of improvement this year. Mostly because he's finally in a system that's built on the QB having set reads/progressions to go through.
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Dude get off your fucking high horse, almost every comment I've seen by you today has been derogatory to anyone who doesn't share your opinons. You keep claiming that anyone who criticizes LT clearly doesn't watch the games. Aside from missing Western Carolina this year for a wedding I've watched them all, and every other game he's played and I stand by my comments.
He is atrocious at progressing through receivers.
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Then you have no idea how football works or are just plain oblivious. He's gone through progressions all year. Remember how excited everyone was when he got all the way to 5? Anyone who criticizes LT to the level I've seen on this board especially is clueless. No, he's not perfect, but this is ridiculous. So many Monday morning QBs here who think college football works just like it does on their X-box. The guy's had crap coaching for 4 years and now has absolutely nothing around him.
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ill buy the coaching, but I wont buy that he has nothing around him this yr argument. Like I said aside from the first 3 games or so the WR's have been open a lot.
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Open WR's don't matter if they can't catch the ball. But I understand your point. They are getting better. Look at all the dropped balls in first couple games. Now they are making most of those catches. The good news is that with experience young WRs are improving, the bad news is that while Moorehead has corrected the way they catch the ball (forming the window, providing the cushion and following the ball in) getting hands up correctly to receive the ball can lead to more tipped balls. Hence all the phucking INTs off tipped balls.
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He had bad coaching in the past. Ok fine. But at this stage in his career, he has habits that are hard to break. I had bad teachers in school. Does that mean it is okay to get an F in math because I had a bad teacher in my past?
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Guys moniker is BlameGlennon. Hard to believe he calls himself a fan. There are a class of fans within the VT fanbase that are worse than the thoroughbreds. Thoroughbreds believe Frank will never take Virginia talent and put an offense together that is good enough to combine with Bud's defense to get to MNC caliber teams.
Guys like BlameGlennon, BlameLT3, VTInferno, vtbaker, etc. are like the thoroughbreds because they think the coaches can't get to MNC caliber. But they go further, believing the coaches generally suck and can't be trusted to design and run the program (should bench LT, don't run this play don't run that play). Implicitly they are stating that Frank made a mistake hiring the three new coaches. Then they go way beyond thoroughbred hatred when they think the players suck. Filled with hate for VT. Starting thread after thread about Logan this Logan that. Worst VT QB of all time, etc., etc. Making up monikers hating on previous players. I don't actually believe they are VT fans, but giving them the benefit of the doubt, they should just move on. Cheer for London's team. He's got two top 10 players coming in. Plenty of hot air to blow up their skirts and pom poms.
We get what side you're on. They're waiting with outstretched arms on the Sabre.
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My screenname is meant to be tongue in cheek and i think most intelligent people on here realize that. I've been on this site for 2+ years. You on the other hand have all of 10 posts and are already making personal attacks.
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I'm sorry friend but you've clearly missed the point of what most of the people you have named here have been saying. I can only speak for myself but I never said any of what you are claiming that I did. I think you should read and try to understand what someone is saying before making generalizations that are in fact false.
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I don't understand what you are exactly getting this from. I love Frank. Do I wish he was more aggressive sometimes? Yes. But I know he has built this program from the ground up and I do believe he can win a National Championship. He deserves to be the head coach as long as he is doing what he can to get there. And I've supported Logan since he came to Virginia Tech. I've just finally concluded that he is only a good quarterback, not a great one, which really isn't his fault since he didn't have very good coaching early on as well as not being brought up as a quarterback like most are. When I say he is good, but not great, I mean that he doesn't make everyone around him better. Great quarterbacks, no matter who is on their team, make the players around them better. Look at Peyton, Brady, and Luck. No matter what team they are on or what skill players they have, they win and make others look good. Logan had weapons around him in 2011 and played phenomenal. The last two years, he hasn't had as strong of a supporting cast and he hasn't played as well. I still prefer Logan over anyone else we have right now, but I'm just disappointed because I thought he would be great for us. I still think he can be great, but his time has run out here (although he certainly could turn it around for the rest of season too) and so he will have to become great in the Pros. Had the new coaches gotten here sooner or even had an o-line that could run block, I don't think we would be having this conversation.
As for the hiring of the coaches? I am disappointed. Yes. I expected more by now, but I don't think they were mistakes. I think they will develop a nice scheme for Tech. I just am confused why we see a lot of the same stuff from before (bubble screens, running out the shotgun way too much, etc.) and seem to cycle through the same 8 to 10 plays a game. That concerns me, but I don't think it will stay a concern. I have a friend that is a manager who says we have a ton of different plays and always run them in practice, so that is why I am scratching my head during the game and criticize.
As for questioning our fan hood, I am highly disappointed. I have loved Virginia Tech since I was 5 years old, am a student now that stays until 00:00 every game as well as going to every ACC champ./bowl games the last 4 years and whatever away games I can afford. I yell every play and do whatever I can as a fan to help the team win (literally almost passed out at the Alabama game and not from drinking). Yet, that doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion and suggest what problems we have or how I think they could be fixed. It doesn't matter what I say because nothing I say is going to change anything. But it makes me feel more of a fan, caring enough to have an opinion or say something. So I'll be rooting for us the rest of my life and no doubt hope to see Logan come out looking like a man on a mission against Miami this Saturday.
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I will say this is the first yr he has had a legit qb coach to coach him up and fix his mechanics. And he has improved there. But he needs to improve his head before he can improve on the field. He has to see and he has to react in a timely manner on the field. He makes his reads late then has to throw a fastball to try to get it in there. Hes getting time in the pocket tho believe it or not. He just has to do it. But im gettn so pissed and frustrated with him
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I would agree with that statement. I do believe he is one of the wort QBs in our programs history, but I will say he is not a true qb, he is a tight end and will always be a tight end. I personally don't thin he should have ever been placed at qb for us. He was decent at best when he had two of the top wife outs in school history and he was still inconsistent. He also crumbled on one of the biggest games against Clemson that year. He didn't have to be a leader that season because we had mostly veterans and we also dw4 which was always a threat to take it to the house.
Last season was a mockery of vt football and this season is shaping up to be the same thing. I do not believe Logan has it in him to lead us to the ACC title game. Glendon can at least say that. Now not al, of this can be put on Logan. I would say a dent percentage is on the coaches. Logan can't help what play is being called and he can't help that the coaches won't utilize me of the best backs we have. The coaches have abandoned the run game sp all the defense has to do is drop 8 and bait Logan into a bad throw. Now secondly he doesn't have much to work with, one senior wr and one standout in Stanford. I believe Coles has let our team down just as much as Logan has. It should have been Logan to Coles all year long but we know that Coles has the work ethic of Marcus Davis. Also being said a qb has to find a way to win even if things are stacked up against him. It's what QBs are supposed to do. Find a way and will your team to a win no matter what the circumstances. I think all around from coaches to players to athletic directors have let the fans down.
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Ok, decent post, but who the f-k is "Gendon" and what are "wife outs"? Also, GLENNON did not lead us to the ACCCG. That was Glennon ALONG with T-Mobile and if you'll remember he was benched in favor of him after the '07 season.
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Y'all can downvote this all you want, but I agree, wholeheartedly, with this.
Logan does give us a great chance to win week in and week out. He can run and has the strongest arm of any quarterback in college football. He is also the reason we lose many of the games we do, though. Having four turnovers for two straight weeks against Duke and Boston College is acceptable, especially as a fifth-year senior!
I understand Logan had to sacrifice a lot when he decided to become a QB when he got to Tech, but he DID have experience in high school as a QB. He was also mentored by the second greatest QB in Virginia Tech history, Tyrod Taylor.
My point is, Logan has had PLENTY of time to figure out what is a good decision and what isn't. Yes, our receivers are not the most talented. Yes, they've been responsible for quite a bit of Logan's interceptions, but those guys ARE young, unlike Logan. Not even Sean Glennon made the mistakes as a senior that Logan has.
In all seriousness, I do think Mark Leal should get his shot.
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Personal Opinion: Joe made a post game (loss) thread. Can't we all post our thoughts in one place? I love hearing your opinions post game, but I can't keep up with everyone's new threads. 10 post game threads is stupid. This is my personal opinion, but can we please consolidate things? (I will try and post this on all the other new threads)
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So my thread titled "We're actually a good team" gets deemed as stupid as fuck just off the title by our Joe. And then there's this thread titled "Logan Thomas is the worst qb in VT history"
Starting to think it's a personal thing now. I'm just gonna get away from this site for the day because I love this site and don't want to say something I'll regret. Go Hokies! Fuck Miami
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Yea, I think there are too many extremes here. Logan is getting too much blame and too much love at the same time. His play certainly is not above criticism, but he also doesn't deserve to be bashed and thrown under the bus. I don't think he should be benched as he does give us the best chance to win IMO, but there is definitely a problem. To not realize he is throwing the ball too fast to nearby receivers is a problem. He doesn't always need so much heat on the ball. He has to remember that these are young and inexperienced receivers, so he is partly to blame if he keeps throwing the ball in a way that makes it hard for them to catch. The other problem is his inability to make good decisions consistently throughout the entire game. A 5th year senior QB can't force a ball into the endzone while on the run only to be intercepted or throw the ball up for grabs when under pressure and falling backwards while the game is tied in the fourth quarter. Those two decisions are what I would expect from a first year starter, not a three year starter. And that is where our problem is. I don't know how you go about fixing that though.
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I feel bad for Logan. He was originally wanted to be a TE and it seems like he wants to work hard to be a qb, but he just doesn't seem to have that natural qb quality or awareness. I hope he still has a future in the NFL, even if it isn't at quarterback.
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I agree. His big problem is his lack of pocket awareness. That coupled with a lack of experienced decision making have been the root of his poor judgement calls.
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If he makes that switch at the next level, God bless him and I will root for him.
He'll still be Tech's leading passer in my mind and in the books, even if he catches passes from Aaron Rodgers for a career at the next level. (I can dream, can't I?)
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If a receiver or running back coughed up the ball 8 times in two games, regardless of talent level, would they play? No. And that's why I'm officially on the Mark Leal train at this point. He can't possibly be worse than this. Logan may give us an opportunity to win at times, but he's always directly responsible for these two losses. I don't think any of the current excuses - no weapons, TE playing QB - hold water at this point. Recall that, in game TWO of 2007, the coaches pulled the rug out on Sean Glennon, a QB who actually played QB and had had four years of development at that point for an 18 year old with "upside". I'm not saying that Leal is Tyrod, but I'm saying that "upside" at this point could be considered a QB who doesn't turn the ball over 4 times a game.
Additionally, Leal needs game experience if he's to be the starter next year, and I honestly don't think he could be worse at this point. Not to mention he's not built to run this veer/read option system where the running back is bigger than he is. Put the QB under center, let it be Leal, hand off to the best player on our team 30 times a game (Trey), and give us an actual shot to win on offense. OK, rant over.
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If a receiver or running back coughed up the ball 8 times in two games, regardless of talent level, would they play?
If they were unquestionably the best offensive weapon that I had, and I was still very much in contention to win an ACC championship and get to a BCS game...
Absolutely.
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Mark Cox, [first name forgotten] Greenwood. Mid-80s. I would say "you could look them up," but Hokiesports.com doesn't recognize anything outside the Beamer era - at least, I couldn't find it. But those two names alone invalidate the title of this post. Remember, kids, some of us were around when Tech didn't get a bowl game every year, or national games, or any of that. They were dark, cold days, indeed.
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Is it though? Enough people are going crazy right now with the world ending you never really know. Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet
Also, if it was sarcasm, great call on making a huge title on a popular website that most people just skimming the board will only see as you proclaiming our current quarterback as the worst one in history at a time when people are legitimately saying this. Very forward thinking
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Not sure if you guys stuck around on ABC and listened to Jesse Palmer. Some of you hate him and think his opinion is always crap (myself included). However I thought he hit it pretty well mentioning that when Logan plays good, VT does not lose. And that's a fact. He mentioned that VT is 14-0 when Logan doesn't throw a pick. Just some food for thought.
Play nice guys, we aren't that fanbase. Hokie Nation ain't 'bout this life.
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Inconsistency is the killer for any sports team and Virginia Tech Football has too much of it right now, specifically on Offense and Special Teams. I WANT to scream 'Bench Logan Thomas!' but I can't. There are too many factors at work to blame him alone. The list of egregious errors that we've made over the course of this season goes on and on, and some of them persist. Sometimes using numbers helps me.
I understand there are flaws to the assumptions here but I am trying to highlight consistency across the board on offense as the real problem with this team.
Let's say that 80% of the time, our WR's catch balls that should be caught. 75% of the time, Logan Thomas delivers a ball that can be caught, 70% of the time, Logan makes the correct read, 90% of the time our blockers are making correct blocks to give Logan the time to make the read. that means that around 38% of our passing plays will be executed properly. If we applied this basic math to the duke and the bc games, what do we look like? My guess is that the above numbers wouldn't be far off.
How about the run game? How often does Logan make the correct read off inverted veer? How often do the RB's wait for the right seam? My guesses for these %'s wouldn't be very good over the entirety of the season.
Not related but wanted to share my thoughts on the program overall.
Be patient. Get Andrew Ford down here. Get our fresh O-line talent down here. Continue to grow Cline, Stanford, Byrn, Edmunds, etc and keep getting kids on D who play fast and physical. This team, just like the numbers above, will be great when we are consistently executing in all phases of the game - WE CAN DO THAT. We've been a good offense before (right, guys? we....we did have a good offense that one time! right?), we've had great special teams, we HAVE the pedigree to be more than competent in all three phases of the game. So, again, as fans we have to be patient - know that the coaches are focusing on getting the right people in the right places, and before you know it big things will start happening again in Blacksburg. I love this football team...GO HOKIES!
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Neither of those pictured above would survive a half in this offense. Logan puts 10 men on his back and takes more hits than a Miley Cyrus video. Win or lose, he's our man.
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So instead of bashing players who have committed 4 years of their life to a football program, let's talk the real issue. Offensive recruiting. This should satisfy people on both sides of this asinine and completely unproductive argument. Per my very quick ESPN research, we got the following players LISTED at quarterback (because apparently that's so special) to sign on in Logan's year or after: Mark Leal, Ricardo Young and BUCKY FUCKING HODGES IN 20 GOD DAMN 13. Joel Caleb is the highest rated offensive player since...you guessed it...DAVID MOTHER FUCKING WILSON. Say what you want about ESPN and recruiting rankings but the odds of someone becoming a successful player are much higher if they are ranked highly by recruiting services. So yes, once again, #BlameStinespring.
/rant over
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After watching the Falcons, specifically Matt Ryan, struggle again this weekend, I came out of it thinking I may need to cut Logan some slack.
Matt Ryan has been a top NFL QB the last 2-3 years. This year, he is making boneheaded throws, throwing into coverage, etc. He has 7 int's the past 2 games. I don't think Matt has suddenly become a bad NFL QB. There are some similarities between the VT offense and the Falcons offense though:
- The Falcons O line has lost good players to free agency (Dahl), injury (Baker, Mike Johnson), and they haven't drafted particularly well (Konz 2nd round)
- Their big free agency pickup, Steven Jackson, has been hurt all year and generally ineffective. He rarely is able to get back to LOS before the first hit
- The Falcons two biggest impact players, Julio Jones and Roddy White, have played sparingly because of injury and were both out the past two weeks. Roddy tried to play on a high ankle sprain (now this is getting eerily similar to a VT offense!) and was a shell of himself. The coaches finally got him to sit out the last 2 games which ended his consecutive game streak.
So the combination of a poor offensive line, no good receivers, and injuries at RB have left Matt Ryan in a position where he has to try to do too much and is forcing the ball.
While LT is certainly to blame for some of the offensive problems, he doesn't have much around him and that is also a big contributor to his struggles.
And I'm really hoping this post gets me my first turkey leg.
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On a similar note, don't forget the all time NFL career touchdowns and interceptions leader is the same person: Brett Favre. Most interceptions in a rookie season? Peyton Manning.
A lot of quarterbacks throw picks, some can run a successful offense in spite of them. We had the latter on Saturday, but it wasn't enough (winning with a -4 turnover margin would have been quite the feat).
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I think its funny a little bit. I've noticed that there's a specific user that I won't name. They post all the time negatively when we lose, but when everything is going well its just coasting...No one here likes to lose period. And if we all didn't agree on being VT fans why would be here right? So, the way I honestly look at it. Yes, I got mad that we lost who wouldn't? But when its every week bashing of VT's coaching, playing, recruiting. I just thought that it was quite funny to me, because we as fans want to hold Beamer and Co. to very high standards and that's undertandable, but when its time for us to ante-up and support them even when its bad we kick them when they're down or need us the most. Yeah I get it. I understand that's the "life of a fan", but those same kids out there that are 18 years old that are considering going here. They see these same rants by us. And I'd be honest if my son was of age and he was blessed to have a schorlarship offer from VT and I myself as a parent would disapprove of him going here period after seeing some of these posts. Yea I know this goes on at every school so you'll say its not different, but its funny to me how Bama fans aren't fighting or LSU fans aren't fighting within themselves at least none that I've came across online or in person in North Carolina....Maybe winning is the answer? Maybe its coaching?....Maybe its better players?....Maybe its better fans? Whatever it maybe..... So please don't compare VT to SEC or NFL, because were not! They're not us and we're not them. I said it before on here and I'll say it again! We don't play second to none! No matter win or lose, I've chosen to be a Hokie and no one forced me to be one. So if your tired of LT and don't want to support him...I say this in the most respectful way possible. "Please Exit stage left!"
Go Hokies!
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And I'd be honest if my son was of age and he was blessed to have a schorlarship offer from VT and I myself as a parent would disapprove of him going here period after seeing some of these posts.
Good luck raising your son in a sheltered bubble such that mean things won't ever be said to him. By the way, people are critical of players online at every other school with the exception of maybe UVA, because apathy for their football program has already set in there. Also, parents should keep their kids in a basement with no Internet access away from all interaction with their peers until they graduate from college, which is the age that society deems acceptable for men and women to begin coping with any criticism.
Seriously though, most of what is written on this site is not slanderous for the sake of it. Most of what you're having a knee-jerk reaction to is just honest analysis of performance. If one can't accept any criticism, then one shouldn't put oneself on a stage in front of hundreds of thousands of spectators.
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I never said I would raise my son in a bubble and if you read my post I've already said like every other school...You sir fail....And I never said there's nothing wrong with criticism, but there's a thin line between criticism and complete bashing of this kid. If it made its way up to Bitter's blog and to Beamer then its no longer just harmless criticism...It clearly affects him and the team, but you might have never had to deal with pressure like that. He's not being paid and to be honest he doesn't have to care what you or I think. Period.... All he has to do is be the best man he can be and give his all and at the end of the day that's all I could ask for as a fan. You sir thanks for your opinion, but the upbringing of my son has nothing to do with your post I said I would disapprove I never said I would make choices for him, but I myself as a parent would steer my child in the way where he can grow up and be successful....So Exit Stage Left!
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I'm saying that I haven't seen many posts on this site completely bashing Logan. Most of what is brought up are valid criticisms. The difference between this site and Bitter's blog, is that one is full of inane trolling by opposing teams' fans, and the other is mainly analysis (albeit sometimes very critical) by fans of VT.
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The football scholarship players may not get a paycheck, but they get compensated in other ways, and handsomely. Free education, free meal plans, free room & board, swag, nutrition, training, being rockstars on campus. Please, don't act like these guys get nothing for being D1 amateur athletes.
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With extreme passion comes extreme criticism. When people stop caring is when we will really have issues. At this point everyone needs to try to take the high road and be respectful to the guy and team that we will all be pulling for Saturday night.
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I'll take inane bitch fighting for a 1000 please Alex.
This is TKP. You are all Hokies. Cut out the cat fights and name calling. If you can't make your opinion without insulting others or down voting their opinion simply because you disagree then this is the wrong forum for you. Use your words. Make relevant, researched points and make them. If you disagree the do so with respect. We've lost 3 games. The world isn't over and VT football, believe it or not, is on the rise in the coming years. Chillax...
Joe, can we institute a bitch fighting penalty rule? -50 turkey legs per comment. Please?
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Just my 2 cents on Logan...yes, the Duke game was bad. As far as the BC game...
I thought Logan made 3 bad plays in this game...
1 - He overthrew Calvin Kline when was wide open in the 3rd quarter (I think right after the Demtri INT)
2 - He didn't hold the ball close enough to his body on the last fumble of the game
3 - He threw a terrible pick-6, a play that's 100% inexcusable
but...that's 3 bad plays. The other 2 turnovers weren't his fault. So take those 3 bad plays and contrast that with how many good plays he made on Saturday....there were a LOT of good plays on offense.
If nothing else, look solely at the last drive of the first half. We had 3 holding penalties on that drive costing us 30 yards. Two of those penalties were on the same series, and the offense faced 2nd-and-30. Logan came out throwing and moved us down the field to set up CJ's long field goal before half.
- how many other QBs in recent memory could have led that drive?
- how many other QBs in recent memory, including Tyrod, Randall, MV2, etc...would the coaches even trust enough to stay aggressive on a 2nd-and-3o from our own 20 yard line with 90 seconds left in the half?
The pick 6 was a terrible play, and Logan directly cost the team 7 points. But, if you hold that against him, you gotta give him credit for the 27 we did score, including those 3 before half that we probably don't get with anyone else under center.
The team fought hard, everyone including Logan and SL and CFB tried their best, but we lost. We're not Alabama or FSU...sometimes our best isn't good enough and we lose, even to teams that aren't great. That's life right now. All I know is I'm supporting whoever is under center. Hoping we beat Miami cause I hate da U.
...just my 2 cents
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It may not seem like it, but oftentimes football can come down to a few big plays, especially with our team. Very, very rarely will you see a team march 80 yards down the field against our D so it's these big plays that make the difference.
That Logan fumble when we were up 7 with the ball absolutely turned the game around. Our defense was in total control at that point (BC hadn't had a legitimate drive since the first quarter and had 3 straight 3 and outs) and they were showing no signs of turning that around. To me, that fumble was just as bad as the INT because it let BC back in the game.
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I don't understand why Frank is so hell bent on not letting Mark Leal attempt to do better. I remember a time when he flip-flopped Sean Glennon and Tyrod Taylor back and forth. He yanked Grant Noel for Bryan Randall. Say what you will but Logan Thomas was the QB for us during our worst season since 1992. He is 13-9 as a starter since 2012. No one else seems to remember that. Its just pat him on the back and keep chugging along. And to be fair I will also put blame on the O-line for not blocking anybody during the BC game. One guy had 3 sacks and a couple of forced fumbles. That is a nightmare scenario if you're up front. Means you got it handed to you multiple times.
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Look, Doctor. I understand what you're saying but these are incredibly different situations. Noel was not in charge of a young team that plays wildly inconsistent. He was a QB that played wildly inconsistent. It was the exact opposite situation.
But let's just consider what you are saying on it's principle. Replacing the QB for the backup.
Consider that Logan is the leader of the team. Every player has said so and every player supports him. As a coach you replace them that sends shockwaves of negative feelings throughout your team. That's not trying to be new age about it, it's simply a morale issue.
And others suggested you can't just try Leal out to see if he can make plays. Not with a 5th year senior that sacrificed a potential career at TE for the team who, while makes some bad decisions, is 100% not completely at fault. You can do that with younger players, not a 5th year who is the recognized leader. If you go with Leal then Logan is done. You can't bring him back.
And for the record, the worst QB in VT history was Marcus Vick.
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No Marcus is definitely the worst. Talent don't mean shit if you can't even finish a season without getting suspended. I'll take any other QB over Marcus because he is not reliable and a phucking moron in making life decisions.
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Marcus Vick actually cut in front of me in line at Owens once. In retrospect, it was quite wise of me to say nothing. I may have found myself staring down the business end of a firearm over a cheese steak.
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Looking at the record? yeah, I definitely am. Marcus 0-3 for completing a season with out being suspended partly or fully during or for next season. 0 -1 for graduating or moving to next level. 1-0 for being dismissed. 0-1 in life, but yes 1-0 for being a fucking loser. The only thing he has excelled in his life is being convicted.
Marcus threw 19 touchdowns and 15 interceptions in his "career" if you can even call it that. Logan is 48 TDs to 38 Ints, not that is stellar work but at least he finishes a season, never been arrested and doesn't embarrass the entire university on national television. And neither did Glennon, Noel, Clark or any others.
Marcus Vick: Worst QB in Hokie History
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I think people are entitled to establish how they define poor performance and what constitutes the "worst QB in VT history." Off-field performance counts, in my book. Looking at the record, Marcus has an impressive one. A criminal record, that is. He goes down in my book as the biggest waste of talent in VT history, and is partially (if not largely) responsible for us developing a reputation as thugs by some in the media (and even other schools).
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And I am talking strictly as a complete picture of a QB. On field, off field, leadership, character. Everything you need in a QB. On field talent doesn't matter if the person drags the team down into their personal mess. That's what Marcus was doing.
You are seriously taking offense to this? Everything I said was true and none of it was offensive to you or in general. So what's the problem man? It's just a discussion. People have different opinions. Some more reasonable and fact driven than others. No need to get upset and take it personally.
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It would appear (most likely) to the readers that you're the one getting emo. I didn't down vote you. I'm not upset but I (and probably a number of others) just happen to disagree with you. Waste of talent? Sure I'll go that route. But I'm not upset.
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haha... you have a very interesting perspective on the way you read things. Let's review:
1) never said you down voted me, and I don't mind if you do.
2) was talking about your "who farted in your coffee?" quip which directly implies you taking it personal, therefore getting upset.
3) I don't mind you disagreeing with me, in fact... I literally just said in my previous post that it's a discussion and you shouldn't take it personal.
4) I am sure lots of people disagree with me, and I am also sure, like Guitarman, lots of people agree with me. That's what happens in any discussion, but you shouldn't take it personal (eg. see point #2)
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Regarding point 2, that was my reaction to your posts. Any psych major would be able to deduct that you're clearly the one taking things personally with your snarky comments and responses, but you go ahead and think what you think. Makes no difference to me.
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Neither Marcus nor Glennon were the leader on the team though.
Randall was loved by his teammates. Marcus not so much. Glennon was Glennon. He never got settled with the team or the position. And neither Glennon, nor Marcus were 5th year seniors who switched positions for the team.
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So what I hear you basically saying is that if Beamer wanted to bench Logan in order to light a fire under his arse, thusly giving Leal some semi meaningful playing time, he should have done that last year or earlier?
Because (yes you're correct in that they weren't 5th yrs) he did pull Randall for Marcus in that Miami game AND he did pull Glennon for Tyrod both in '07 and '08.
Is that what I hear you saying??
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The Glennon-Tyrod years were a mess. I never knew who the starter would be and it always seemed as if (1) it didn't matter much who started and (2) Beamer probably flipped a coin an hour before kickoff. He knew Tyrod had potential but Glennon had experience. No clear winner there. Ultimately, Tyrod was awesome, but those first couple years our QB situation was a trainwreck (also due in large part to MV5 throwing our QB situation into turmoil before them).
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Beamer can choose to bench Logan anytime he wants. Could start this game. It's his decision.
My point is that would be a stupid decision. This is Logan's 3rd year as a starter and there has not been a time when benching him to light that particular fire was a logical conclusion. After 2010? No way. Logan straight up gamed all season. 2011? For who, Leal? He had zero experience. Logan just had a big year and the cracks in VT coaching staff, and recruiting, was what broke the dam of staff continuity. It was clear that the offensive coaching staff had to go and they did. Proving Beamer will still make the big boy decisions if he needs to. So now in 2013, Logan is THE leader of the team. Every coach and player saying so and you want to bench him for an unproven backup mid-season? No coach would do that man. Do you honestly believe that is a good decision?
That doesn't light a fire. That tells everyone you are not confident in them. Logan is the leader. If he falls the team falls.
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different players are affected differently. coach Beamer knows this. but the reason I'm just a dude lying in bed with a hangover and he's payed millions of dollars is that he can tell what the effects are going to be.
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I cant even call logan a leader when hes throwing teammates under a bus. A real leader shoulders the blame, and he deserves to shoulder most of the blame. Not sure if you read the interviews yesterday, but there was subtle jabs at Leal and I didn't appreciate that at all. It was as if him and beamer were throwing leal under the bus. My problem about this program is there should be competition at every position. Its pretty sad your not worried about getting pulled when your the worst qb in D1 football as far as turnovers go. Your play should dictate how you see the field. Being this late in logan's career he is what he is, he isn't gonna get better on the field this yr. So we have to accept his short comings unfortunately.
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I think people read what they want to read into comments. You want to be done with him, to bench him, and to try out Leal, so you look for comments that damage Logan.
Listen people - benching Logan and trotting out Leal is going to go about as well as when the Redskins trotted out John Beck. You think the offense is a disaster now, wait and see what happens when you remove the ONLY thing that works some of the time.
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No I didn't see the interviews. What did they say? (I am traveling and on my phone so difficult to search around the internet rapidly) I also don't jive with any under bus throwing
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I think it depends on how you read it. LT is clearly agitated and tired of answering the same question, but I don't interpret that as throwing Leal under the bus. He didn't say anything negative about him. He's just saying, "I'm the starter, the coaches say I'm the starter and I'm not getting pulled, so let's talk about something else."
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thanks Guitarman. Yeah, gotta say I don't see a bus anywhere in those comments. In fact if I was Leal, comments like that from Beamer is exactly what I want to hear. Why? because next year is my year, my ONLY year, and there is a young hotshot QB named Andrew Ford, recruited by our current OC, that fans will be calling for. Or for Bucky... If I am Leal I want to see Beamer sticking up for his embattled QB more than ever. Exactly like this.
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This x10000!! It is so refreshing to see some HOKIE fans with a positive outlook. What is beamer suppose to do say Yeah you know what the last 3 years we thought Logan was our guy and this year we figured out he wasn't. Sure thats the quickest way to get fired, and totally ruin a guys confidence. Some of you might say Logan has no confidence. How about you put on some pads and run the ball 20+ times and take some of the hits he takes. Not to mention when he gets pilled up for the 3 yard he is taking 4-5 hits at a time.
In Regards to Leal I wouldn't expect anything more, if he thought he was the better QB then we would see it talked about more and he would have made some statements the past few weeks. Instead he is getting behind his QB, his brother, his freaking TEAMMATE and telling him look this is your job I'm here to support you. Go out there and show them what we see in practice every day, A Future NFL QB with freakish talent and size.
The biggest problem was O'cain that's why we are seeing all of these problems. Not getting through his progressions, chopping his feet, his mechanics. O'cain did nothing for him an Logan even called him out on it. We all have to remember the last 3 years he really had no QB coach and just worked with what he knew. Now he is learning all these things and its taking some time to polish.
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My post was constructive criticism in the form of sarcasm - it's not my problem you failed to grasp that very simple concept. Now who's the "11 year old"?
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Just because you're retired does not give you the right to be condescending. Based on a number of posts and your username, I'm getting the idea that you're just some grumpy old guy who talks down to everyone on here, so proceed if you take pleasure in pissing everyone off.
The "if you're so good, why don't you do it yourself" argument as it pertains to sports is the most immature arugment one can make. It reflects a complete lack of intelligence. Obviously your post is sarcastic because I doubt the average person is even allowed to get to his office, but what point were you even trying to make by posting that?
It's ironic that I'm saying this to someone who's been living for 3X as long as me, but I'm speaking on behalf of a number of people that you've belittled when I say you really need to grow up. And i know you're going to come back and tell me that I'm stupid/need to grow up so let me just reiterate that you're a 60 year old man picking fights with college-age kids on the internet.
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Since I prefer to be up-beat and positive about the players and the team, I'm a "grumpy old man"? Really?? That's a rather interesting definition of the word "grumpy", don't you think? Seems a little bass-ackwards to me, but hey, whatever winds your clock.
"Condescending"? "Belittling"? No, not at all, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But, I'm beginning to think you're right on the edge of posting personally insulting and abusive remarks. If that's where you want to take this discussion, you can count me out.
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Are you that clueless? Do you really not think this is condescending?
My post was constructive criticism in the form of sarcasm - it's not my problem you failed to grasp that very simple concept. Now who's the "11 year old"?
And get off your high horse. Just a week ago you wrote another condescending post directed at me in which you insulted Logan Thomas. So don't sit here and say that you're defending our players because you flip-flop every week.
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I think I could do that. I'd be the quarterback TKP wants, not the one they need.
I promise I wouldn't throw a single INT, and we would run the ball almost every play. Because as soon as the ball is snapped I'd just start running away from the big guys who want to take my head off . Don't worry, I'll give the ball to the running back so the defense doesn't follow me.
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Hmm..I'd love to see either of them throw the ball 40 times in a game with ZERO running game and not average 4 INT's per game let alone gain nearly 400 yards passing. That's laughable.
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Given the series of the Doctor's other comments on several other threads, many of which were purely vitriolic towards LT, this was absolutely not a joke or sarcasm. I love what Joe did here.
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Comments
Agreed. Can't point the finger anywhere else today.
Seriously? How bout Knowles gifting an INT? I can't blame Thomas for going outside the box and trying to do everything himself, cause really, he's getting zero help. How bout Meyer dropping a TD pass? You think Watkins or any of FSU's WRs drop that? Point the finger at Logan all you want, but the fact of the matter is he's the only weapon this offense has.
so many penalties, sub par offensive line play, head scratching play calling, WR's that are on and off...I feel bad for the guy. This game was partially his fault but man...i hope he gets drafted by a team with a good starting QB who can work him up, and then give him his chance...if he still sucks--then fine, I am wrong, but my guess is, he'll be pretty good given the right opportunity.
Yes, but did you watch that pick-6? That is the absolute, most completely unacceptable throw you could ever make during a football game. Throwing across your body, under pressure, falling backwards, across the middle without looking. A winning QB NEVER makes that play.
I'll give you that one, it was a really really bad play but come on man, that wasn't the only bad play in the game. Blame goes to so many so Dr of hokienomics and other haters are being pissy
My argument for benching Logan is simple. Every game, he's making absolutely unforgivable mistakes, and it seems to get out of hand. You see him on the sideline, he's shaking off his coaches and ignoring them. His head is just not in the right place, and he needs to be sat down so that he can get a clue, get focused again, and start playing better.
Honestly I think the coaches see what a lot of us see, but don't always want to acknowledge. Logan has a minimal amount of talent surrounding him. His favorite weapon is a walk-on turned scholarship receiver who got injured and a TE who was the 4th string before the season started. I would trade every player on this offense except for LT and maybe TE14 for someone else's offense, that is how bad they are. LT makes some bad decisions but he does it because he things (and rightfully so in many cases) that the game is on his shoulders. I will always point back to 2011..he was inconsistent, yes, but the talent surrounding him allowed him to be a much better QB.
But it was the difference in the game.
That TD could be considered the difference between winning and losing
Yall Logan lovers make it seem like our offensive players are just complete trash and Logan is out there looking around with the Eli Manning face hoping he can get some help. That's really not the case and I think we all know that. When Logan played well, our offensive guys looked good because they were given the opportunity to do so. Even today, nobody on our offense looked as bad as Logan did. (Maybe Charley Meyer did but why the fuck was he even in the game in the first place. Meyer is irrelevant). Nobody on our offense played worse than Logan Thomas did this week or last week. If you disagree then I don't think you understand how football works.
Meyer was in the game because Byrn got hurt. And look at the sheer number of freshmen starting/contributing. And these aren't 5-star guys either. That should tell you something. Logan is pretty much playing with a glorified HS all-star team. There were plenty of times today when Logan looked great, but his receivers or his line let him down. I'm not saying that was the case 100% of the time, but it was enough to the point where I can't completely blame Logan.
Yeah but none of our QB's had 5 star receivers either. Danny Coale was a walk on too but Tyrod did just fine with him.
Danny Coale. That's all that needs to be written.
Also, when Danny & co. were freshmen, Tyrod had a TD:INT ratio of 2:7.
Which would make Tyrod a true sophomore who split time his freshman year. Can't compare his sophomore year and Logan's 5th year, third year starting. However, it also isn't fair to compare anyone to Danny Coale. Probably the most reliable receiver in Virginia Tech history.
In Tyrod's second year starting he went TD:INT 13:5 and in his third he went 24:5, not to mention those years he also went 10-2 and 11-3. But prior to Danny Coale going Danny Coale all over the field he was a walk on that I am sure that everyone was saying had no skill. He was never a 5 star guy. I am not saying that anyone on the field right now is Danny Coale but they have proven to be capable at times, so calling them a high school all star team in inaccurate. The same coaches that deemed Logan to be talented to be the starter at quarterback also believe that the wide receivers are talented enough to be starters at VT.
Also doing some reading on Wikipedia (reliable I know but I don't remember/I'm not going to go looking it up)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrod_Taylor#College_stats
All that was during his sophomore season. He was pulled for committing 5 turnovers and got the start the next game and played well. LT committed 4, and then committed 4 again. I believe that LT gives Tech the best chance to win I truly do, but I also don't believe that when he is playing poorly that taking him out is a bad idea either.
to be fair to Tyrod, that Duke game was like 8 degrees. Nobody could hold onto the ball.
I wasn't there. That was one of like 2 Hokie games I missed while in college. I am pretty sure it was thanksgiving or fall break or something along those lines. I am from NJ and had been home since I had left for Tech so I went home and missed the game.
But who down voted you and for what? Here's a leg.
haha, thanks. Yeah I have no idea. People are just grumpy, I guess. Fortunately, I've got like 1,000, so no sweat.
Looks like a serial down voter stalking the board
Lol! That was pretty good. But you're probably right about the upset folks. Just imagine what it was like after the jmfu game.
Oh no! My poor turkey legs!! Oh, the humanity! It's where I derive most of my self-esteem!!
Hey now, turkey legs are pretty freakin delicious! Don't deny that your esteem feels somewhat elevated after devouring one
Sean Glennon didn't have a problem. Tyrod had as many completions as he did INTs that day and I remember one fumble being as mind boggling as LT's INT.
Danny Coale was not a walk on. He attended a camp and was offered a scholarship.
Danny Coale may have been a walk on but he was a FOOTBALL PLAYER! He was always open and caught anything near him - and yes Big 10 replay officials - HE CAUGHT THAT ONE TOO!!!
Pac-12, I think, actually. But point taken.
"Yall Logan lovers". Really??
Sorry, but there's no need for that comment on this board. Quite a few of us are on this board to get away from that kind of stuff on other boards.
Please keep the conversation civil.
That kind of comment gets posted because the opposite usually gets thrown out "Logan Haters" when he has a miracle game....there are usually three or four posts of "Take that Logan Haters" I don't tend to fall in either category but at this point, I would like to see what Leal can do with a week of prep as the designated starter, just to get an idea of what to expect next year......Logan does enough damage (regardless of whether its the offensive line not blocking or the receivers not getting open) he throws balls too hard into places that shouldn't be attempted too often or loses the ball scrambling when most QBs would have thrown the ball away and with that a world class defense is wasted and I think he should consider taking some snaps at TE to showcase his ability there. At this point, if we beat Miami (assuming Miami is going to lose to FSU tonight as they are down 21-7 right now, and Duke doesn't lose again, Duke goes to the conference title game even if we win out.
And if Duke wins out, they deserve to be there.
If Duke wins out and goes 10-2, I feel a lot better about the fact that we lost to them.
Exactly!
Your wrong, Thomas does make mistakes, but he is asked to do way too much. He was hurt pretty early in this one. No other team sans GT asks their QB to run into a defensive front every first down play.
The offensive line couldn't protect him against a depleted BC d-line. With no other rushing threat, it becomes easy to focus attention on Thomas in both rushing and passing.
The bottom line is this coaching staff is just as bad as last years. When something works, they stop doing it, and when something doesn't work, they to force it to prove that it could at some point.
Also this oline is just plain bad.
He'd run less if he were better at the zone read and would hand it off to the back when appropriate.
I hate to say this, but put Sean Glennon in Logan's shoes, and EVERYONE would be screaming for him to step aside. That guy took a lot more crap for WAY BETTER PERFORMANCES AND DECISION MAKING.
Put Logan back at TE to up his NFL Draft Stock...
...and these days he takes crap from everyone for his brother being an NFL starting QB...just wish the younger Glennon could have finished off Seattle
After four and a half years at one position in the college level, switch him to a new position for the last few games, and help his draft stock?
That would be an incredible performance.
He was a top TE recruit in High School - remember the one handed catch he caught from Tyrod for the Touchdown? 6'6", fast, redicuously athletic. Sounds like a TE prospect to me.
Let me hit you with some knowledge... #1 TE in the NATION by Rivals... He played QB, yes, but he was recruited as a TE, as he played TE as a So.
http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Lo...
Where are you seeing that he played TE as a Sophomore? Zach McCray, his cousin, has stated several times that he's never played TE once.
My mistake - he was a receiver as a sophomore in HS, not TE. Switched to QB for his Jr. and Sr. years.
Let me hit you with some knowledge back... he's been playing, practicing, and working solely as a QB his whole time at VT. One play doesn't mean he's a tight end. Heck, Joe Flacco of the Baltimore Ravens caught a pass in an NFL game once, but he's a superbowl MVP QB. No one said, oh wow, here's a big, tall guy who caught a pass, let's make him a TE right now!
Having him switch positions in the middle of the season his senior year is just...
Nevermind, I have no nice words to use for that.
Not necessarily switch him back during the year - but he could definitely be marketed to the NFL as a TE after the season is over, IF, and only IF, there is really a Lloyd Christmas chance of him ever making it as a QB at the pro level. A handful of QB's in college have turned out to be pretty good pro's as receivers, and Logan definitely would be a hot commodity if that were the case in the future.
Hines Ward and Antwan Randle-El; that white QB from Arkansas who got caught with coke
Matt Jones? Converted to WR in the league, I think for Jacksonville.
Webpages with images on them, are not the same as images.
Probably would not go that far, but he for sure would not make the scout team 4-deep for an All Time Virginia Tech team, unless it was a tight end
Hmm Glennon wasn't all that bad in retrospect...
Hmm stiney wasn't all that bad in retrospect either...i am just gonna keep my mouth shut and watch the games...(i am not insulting you but i disliked glennon, and stiney too and it turns out, I wouldn't mind having them around today)
Just FYI: stiney is still around
i realize, but just FYI: stiney isn't calling plays.
Stiney calling plays was like watching a 5 year old call plays. His idea of a pass play was "get open"
I prefer Loeffler a lot more than Stiney, don't get me wrong. Loffler's dedication to making the WR's actually run routes is fantastic but probably has a lot to do with the offensive woes we have seen. I can be quoted as saying that BC was lining up 5-7 guys in the box all day long (which means RUN RUN RUN) and Loeffler didn't. My guess is that is an indication of how bad the line and the running game is..I just don't understand all the shotgun formations (which is where I wouldn't mind having stinespring back...power I on the 1 yardline.
LT's fumble on the goal line that was recovered by Miller is the reason Loeffler prefers LT in the shotgun. But, running out of the shotgun 99% of the time limits what we can do in the running game.
THIS^^^ I can't stand running out of the shotgun all the time. You hand the ball off 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage with no momentum. Half the time it is going to the outside which is even worse. If we want to run the ball we need to get back to smash mouth football where we line up in the power formations and stuff it down their throat. We aren't a spread team and definitely don't have the personnel for it so I don't know why we are trying to model Oregon when we should be modeling an Alabama or Stanford.
I agree and it pisses me off that beamer basically said we cant win unless we run the hell out of the qb. We have success running the football with our Rbs when logan is lined up under center
Glennon wasn't that bad because Tyrod replaced him half the time and won games for the team.
Never say such things
I wouldn't say the worst--he has broken records. I think it is the way that he loses that makes him feel the worse. When glennon played, every game I had my fingers crossed. When Logan plays--he gets my hopes up, then crushes them brutally every game. I think he is better than most QB's that have come through here, but he inconsistency makes it feel worse
If someone is going to start for 3 years, they should break some records
Not a huge LT fan here, but he does hold just about every passing record at VT.
That is to be expected considering he has the most attempts by far, nearly 300 more than Tyrod and counting. He's tied with Randall for career TD's, with 300+ more attempts. Quickly approaching Don Strock for most INT's.
This is what I was trying to get at without having to look up the numbers
Also because he's only had one year with a credible running game.
will furrer, maurice deshazo, al clark.. all worse.. doesnt excuse today, but still...
Whoa, really??
Will Furrer was the man!
Maurice DeShazo was one of the most important players in school history!
Turkey leg for the Shaz but who the f-k was furrer?
Will Furrer: Hokie QB from 1988-91.
Drafted and played a few years in the NFL, Europe.
Played backup for Elway.
Smart guy that got to the show and survived with minimal damage.
Great Hokie.
Thx person with Daryl Hall as icon
Eronius on both counts! Deshazo was a pioneer! Along w al Clark. Also both of those QBs took us to the national spotlight and delivered. One beat Texas and the other #beatthebrakesofbama
Nope. Al Clark ultimately sucked (though he was QB when we #beatbama). Shaz was a pioneer, but Druckenmiller beat the horns.
You beat me to it. That was Druck's year fo sho.
I really liked Deshazo when he played. I was 13 or so back then but I remember having a good time with him at the helm.
Wow, the negativity has reached an all time low on this site. It's like thesabre around here. I still stand behind LT3 and this team but the lack of a run game is terrible
I'm with you. The offense wasn't in the best shape to begin with this season. Things happen. Who knows what will happen towards the end of the season?
I wish I could have as much faith as you. Trust in a team that has provided absolutely zero reason to do so. I truthfully admire your resolve (seriously, no b.s.).
That's what being a fan is. You don't make calls. You just root for the team.
Zero reason? How about this d. Even in a bad day they kept it winnable. I don't have trust in the offense but that's no reason to bail on a team completely
Maurice DeShazo WORSE than Logan Thomas? You should have your Hokie fan license revoked.
Do you not remember that bowl game against UGA? Glennon blew plenty of games for us too
Agree. When I think of glennon that's the game I think of.
As much as I dislike him right now, I have to disagree. Logan has been serviceable for us...we could have done much worse.
I really wish that some of the folks that came over from TSL would return to that site. This place is becoming exactly like that site after a loss.
Yes, yes. Everyone jump for joy and don't speak about the elephant in the room! I'm all for not wanting to bash this team. They are young guys and pour their hearts and souls into this team. However, I see nothing wrong with pointing out that the offense is consistently horrifically bad. There is just maybe more constructive way to do so.
I disagree with praising something that is garbage.
Constructive= Free Mark Leal!
I think it's more about calling out a kid by name who just laid everything out there for us today. He played bad for sure but he's doing everything he can. No one is praising today's game, but personal attacks is going a bit far.
I hear you but I just get along with the fact that people will vent here. A day or two afterwards people calm down. It's about the same amount of time it takes for me to get over it.
All you LT supporters .. get off it. Eight turnovers in two weeks. How can you defend that?
At least 3 of those INTs were right off the hands/chest of receivers. Boyd or Winston make those same throws to their receivers, my money says they have 3 more completions. Thomas has NOTHING around him. Can't blame the guy for trying to make a play all by himself. He made one really bad decision today. Get over yourself.
Dude, I'm not blaming Logan for every loss we've had this season, and I'm not blaming this loss entirely on him either. One player cannot solely lose a football game.
But get your head out of the dirt. He's playing bad. He's had three good games all season. Blaming the line, receivers, and coaching can only go so far with a redshirt, three-year starter. He made awful decisions today, as he did last week. Those, you cannot defend. I will not say Logan is a bad quarterback, but I will say he is far, far away from being a smart one. And while he doesn't lose us the games, his throws most certainly put us in a better position to lose the games. Consistently.
And a lot of his throws put us in a position to win the game. How different would these boards look if Meyer held on to that ball and fell into the endzone? I understand he's not perfect, but guess what? Boyd just threw a pick against UVA. All I'm saying is that the guy doesn't deserve to get lynched after every incompletion. People expect and demand perfection who have zero idea what goes into playing on that level. Again, I saw one very bad decision (the pick 6), which was made under pressure (yet again) and he was trying to make a play. I can understand the pressure he feels to do that because there is literally nothing around him on that offense. Without him, we don't win more than 4 games this season, tops.
And I don't think he should be benched, that would be absurd. But he deserves blame when blame is due. If he doesn't make throws to put us in position to win the game, then he's not doing his job.
His mistakes were bad and his performance wasn't good enough to carry the team, but the man had 391 yards passing. Our rushing attack? 55 yards. If LT doesn't produce as much as he does, we probably get skunked.
What bothers me about this is that the only reason our rushing attack produced so little is because we didn't use it. Our running backs got 9 carries. I keep hearing that Logan has no help and I wonder how anyone even knows. I think it'd be cool to not put the entire burden of offensive production on Logan. I love the dude and hate what's happening to him. I really think the idea that Logan has to do everything for the offense to have success is unfair to him and unnecessary. We have to start using our running backs.
Fully agree. I don't know why we're not rushing more in general. I could see why we were going to the air so much; it seemed like BC was giving us latitude to do it and selling out on trying to stuff the run, but some of the plays on the ground did get good yardage.
Many of these "drops" are passes where LT throws it way too hot or off target.
Have to agree, people are sticking up for him a little too much. Admit he made mistakes and the game in majority goes to him. And if we win and he made good decisions, praise him. Realize the truth about what happened and don't make excuses or point fingers.
There needs to be some major changes.
There have been major changes. Their names are Loeffler, Moorehead, and Grimes.
Everyone on the Bench Logan train will just have to have the "I can't wait til he is gone" mentality because he is not going anywhere. If/when FSU wins tonight, we still have a shot to win the division next week against an overrated Miami team. This team for the duration of the year is going to be Logancentric so just deal with it. Next year we can see how the offense plays as a team instead of focusing so much on one player.
Also, anyone who thinks we will barely squeak by UVA obviously hasn't watched a game of theirs. They are just downright awful.
Career record 391 yards on a career worst day.
Logan I don't think is the worst. Just maybe the most sporadic. I have never seen someone look like an NFL starter on 1 play and then like my 10 year old nephew the next play. He is a great guy and deserves to finish his career off as the starter though. No doubt. I just wish he could be a lil more consistent.
If a guy is an NFL starter one day and a pee-wee football guy the next day, he does not belong in the NFL.
As a NY Giants fan I regrettably need to throw Eli Manning out there. Hero one week and chump the next.
This has been a rough fall for me.
2 Super Bowl winning drives enough for you?
What a troll post this is, was, and will be.
Everyone seriously must have forgotten just how bad Sean Glennon was
Glennon had a higher career completion percentage than Thomas. They both threw INTs at about the same clip (3% of their throws). Their yards/attempt is similar (7.4 YPA for Glennon, 7.1 for Thomas). It's entirely possible that Thomas is simply Glennon wearing a mask and this is all a plot for revenge.
The biggest difference between Glennon and Thomas as a passer is that one is hated while one gets every excuse in the book made for his play.
I stood up for Glennon and I'll stand up for Thomas. the only reason Thomas is still playing is that we don't have a Tyrod. before you say Leal is this year's Tyrod let me just say this: if he were he'd be starting.
I don't think Leal is Tyrod. I think he isn't Logan Thomas.
Biggest knock on Glennon (for me) was that after a while, he lost all confidence and played scared. That sets him apart from LT in my book.
(Glennon also had stud RBs -- that the coaches trusted -- to help him out named Ore and Evans, but that's another topic for another day)
Glennon also had Royal, Morgan, Harper, Hyman, Boone, Duane Brown etc, etc
This season is eerily like 2009; loss to Bama in the opener, ripoff a bunch of wins, then two-straight ACC losses. We beat Miami that year :)
That team had Tyrod, Evans, Williams, and Wilson, Boyd, Coale...see anyone on this squad that looks like any of those guys?
The funniest part of this post is that almost no one understands it.
For what it's worth, my opinion of you, and most of the others on here whining about Thomas, is the same as that of Kim Jong Un: A screaming little toddler who doesn't really understand what's going on around him, but thinks that by throwing a little hissy fit, the world will be made all better for him. Grow up, get off the computer, learn the game, and then come back. By screaming about LT3 every week, you show just how oblivious you are to how this game works. As has been said before, Thomas has NOTHING around him. He does his best with what he's given, and you can't blame him for trying to go outside the box and win it by himself, cause he doesn't get a whole lot of help.
Well, that's not a very nice way to describe your fellow TKP members. And my beef with Logan is how he's responded to these mistakes in the last two games. He seems to have lost that mental toughness, and I think he needs to take a step back, which would correspond to him being benched, even if for a series or two.
Benching a player isn't always the best way to get their head back in the game. Logan's also the only leader on the offensive side of the ball, something to think about before throwing a first time starting qb in there
Can you blame the guy? He's put his heart and soul into this team for 5 years, gets pretty much nothing but crap from his fanbase, is trying to lead an offense with zero talent around him and gets 98% of the blame when things go wrong whether he deserves it or not.
And really, I'll call it how I see it. Deal with it.
Well I'm sorry, I just think that you can have a different opinion than someone else and still be nice about it. And I just don't see any other way to get Logan's head back in the right spot then to show him that he doesn't have to do it all himself.
Dude he is a 5 yr player with the mind of a god damn freshman. STFU already. Those INts he threw last wk that went off the wrs hands were the wrong damn reads to begin with. I mean hell the damn site here broke it down for you. Why don't you read it and take a look at the pictures of the WRs open ALL DAMN GAME LONG. Im someone that's gonna call it like I see it. Yall can make the excuses all ya want but I sure as hell aint. Logan isn't the only problem with this team, but hes the biggest reason we lost the last 2 games and if you people cant understand that then stop following football. The wrs don't make him throw off his back foot or throw into double coverage on the wrong read. You guys act as if our wrs are terrible or something. They have been open all yr long outside of the first few games. Its up to logan to make the right read and make the accurate pass. I agree that there are certainly drops and they deserve some blame to, but no one is stinking up the joint like logan
He plays like a freshman cause he's had 1 year of good coaching. I'm not gonna bother reading the rest cause you're just a pissy little kid. Get over it. Any time a coach teaches a kid more in 3 months than he learned in 4 years, you question the past coaching staff.
Okay seriously man, just chill out for a second. We're all Hokie fans here. I know the loss sucks, but let's try not to take it out on each other
I was not going to comment on this thread, because at the end of the day it isn't constructive, but this post. Do you even watch the games??
You stated earlier if 'he would have just caught the ball he would have fallen in for a touchdown.' Well yes of course, because for him to catch the ball he had to jump like he was Michael Jordan!! I don't have to know anything about football to know you have to throw balls guys can catch! I'm sick of seeing wide open receivers jumping, diving, waiting or going to a knee to catch a ball that Logan throws!
You can talk all day about how inept our entire offense is, but it's honestly AMAZING what happens when players get the ball in their hands! This is the one thing I am tired of about Logan and everyone that wants to go hug him after a game and want to say 'always remember 2011'. HE CAN'T HIT HIS TARGETS!! For every 10 passes he throws, one hits them where it's supposed to..I am sick of seeing him play like a middle school QB and changing the channel and watching a FCS quarterback that compared to our QB looks like a hiesman winner.
Now go down vote me..
I think he means the Charlie Meyer incompletion that bounced off his hands...
Yes, there were a few where it's like what in the world..but you hit a Standford in stride what happens? You hit someone on a screen with a proper pass (besides the holding call) look what can happen. Those are the throws that 90% of college QB's can and are supposed to make. I hate being in the 10%.
And while we are on the subject, can we stop with the slow developing bubble screens? They are like our latteral running game: slow to develop and don't usually net any gains (the one Willie broke aside).
Looks a little Stiney out there sometimes. Just sayin
What's weird is those screens actually work for other teams
Wow, North Korea Analogies? Didn't think I would see the day that.
Sweet.
Yea there is no way Logan is worse that Glennon or Noel. Logan will be drafted. How far did those 2 scrubs make it in the pros.
just because he is going to be drafted doesn't mean he should especially at qb. Physically attributes mean squat when you have a 2 cent football mind on the field
He's made zero progress since he's taken over when it comes to scanning the field and making the correct reads. I really have trouble remembering times when he's made more than one read on a play. If the first option isn't open, he's running it or Favre-ing that shit into triple coverage.
Clearly you haven't watched the games or listened to any interviews. That's been easily his biggest area of improvement this year. Mostly because he's finally in a system that's built on the QB having set reads/progressions to go through.
Dude get off your fucking high horse, almost every comment I've seen by you today has been derogatory to anyone who doesn't share your opinons. You keep claiming that anyone who criticizes LT clearly doesn't watch the games. Aside from missing Western Carolina this year for a wedding I've watched them all, and every other game he's played and I stand by my comments.
He is atrocious at progressing through receivers.
Then you have no idea how football works or are just plain oblivious. He's gone through progressions all year. Remember how excited everyone was when he got all the way to 5? Anyone who criticizes LT to the level I've seen on this board especially is clueless. No, he's not perfect, but this is ridiculous. So many Monday morning QBs here who think college football works just like it does on their X-box. The guy's had crap coaching for 4 years and now has absolutely nothing around him.
ill buy the coaching, but I wont buy that he has nothing around him this yr argument. Like I said aside from the first 3 games or so the WR's have been open a lot.
Open WR's don't matter if they can't catch the ball. But I understand your point. They are getting better. Look at all the dropped balls in first couple games. Now they are making most of those catches. The good news is that with experience young WRs are improving, the bad news is that while Moorehead has corrected the way they catch the ball (forming the window, providing the cushion and following the ball in) getting hands up correctly to receive the ball can lead to more tipped balls. Hence all the phucking INTs off tipped balls.
He had bad coaching in the past. Ok fine. But at this stage in his career, he has habits that are hard to break. I had bad teachers in school. Does that mean it is okay to get an F in math because I had a bad teacher in my past?
In math? Understandable.
Guys moniker is BlameGlennon. Hard to believe he calls himself a fan. There are a class of fans within the VT fanbase that are worse than the thoroughbreds. Thoroughbreds believe Frank will never take Virginia talent and put an offense together that is good enough to combine with Bud's defense to get to MNC caliber teams.
Guys like BlameGlennon, BlameLT3, VTInferno, vtbaker, etc. are like the thoroughbreds because they think the coaches can't get to MNC caliber. But they go further, believing the coaches generally suck and can't be trusted to design and run the program (should bench LT, don't run this play don't run that play). Implicitly they are stating that Frank made a mistake hiring the three new coaches. Then they go way beyond thoroughbred hatred when they think the players suck. Filled with hate for VT. Starting thread after thread about Logan this Logan that. Worst VT QB of all time, etc., etc. Making up monikers hating on previous players. I don't actually believe they are VT fans, but giving them the benefit of the doubt, they should just move on. Cheer for London's team. He's got two top 10 players coming in. Plenty of hot air to blow up their skirts and pom poms.
We get what side you're on. They're waiting with outstretched arms on the Sabre.
My screenname is meant to be tongue in cheek and i think most intelligent people on here realize that. I've been on this site for 2+ years. You on the other hand have all of 10 posts and are already making personal attacks.
I'm sorry friend but you've clearly missed the point of what most of the people you have named here have been saying. I can only speak for myself but I never said any of what you are claiming that I did. I think you should read and try to understand what someone is saying before making generalizations that are in fact false.
I don't understand what you are exactly getting this from. I love Frank. Do I wish he was more aggressive sometimes? Yes. But I know he has built this program from the ground up and I do believe he can win a National Championship. He deserves to be the head coach as long as he is doing what he can to get there. And I've supported Logan since he came to Virginia Tech. I've just finally concluded that he is only a good quarterback, not a great one, which really isn't his fault since he didn't have very good coaching early on as well as not being brought up as a quarterback like most are. When I say he is good, but not great, I mean that he doesn't make everyone around him better. Great quarterbacks, no matter who is on their team, make the players around them better. Look at Peyton, Brady, and Luck. No matter what team they are on or what skill players they have, they win and make others look good. Logan had weapons around him in 2011 and played phenomenal. The last two years, he hasn't had as strong of a supporting cast and he hasn't played as well. I still prefer Logan over anyone else we have right now, but I'm just disappointed because I thought he would be great for us. I still think he can be great, but his time has run out here (although he certainly could turn it around for the rest of season too) and so he will have to become great in the Pros. Had the new coaches gotten here sooner or even had an o-line that could run block, I don't think we would be having this conversation.
As for the hiring of the coaches? I am disappointed. Yes. I expected more by now, but I don't think they were mistakes. I think they will develop a nice scheme for Tech. I just am confused why we see a lot of the same stuff from before (bubble screens, running out the shotgun way too much, etc.) and seem to cycle through the same 8 to 10 plays a game. That concerns me, but I don't think it will stay a concern. I have a friend that is a manager who says we have a ton of different plays and always run them in practice, so that is why I am scratching my head during the game and criticize.
As for questioning our fan hood, I am highly disappointed. I have loved Virginia Tech since I was 5 years old, am a student now that stays until 00:00 every game as well as going to every ACC champ./bowl games the last 4 years and whatever away games I can afford. I yell every play and do whatever I can as a fan to help the team win (literally almost passed out at the Alabama game and not from drinking). Yet, that doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion and suggest what problems we have or how I think they could be fixed. It doesn't matter what I say because nothing I say is going to change anything. But it makes me feel more of a fan, caring enough to have an opinion or say something. So I'll be rooting for us the rest of my life and no doubt hope to see Logan come out looking like a man on a mission against Miami this Saturday.
Who coached Tyrod?
Wasn't't it his dad?
"wasn't't"
is that a double negative?
"was not not" ?
BlameGlennon,
Yea logan said in an interview that he goes through his progressions entirely too fast. Especially in the duke game.
I will say this is the first yr he has had a legit qb coach to coach him up and fix his mechanics. And he has improved there. But he needs to improve his head before he can improve on the field. He has to see and he has to react in a timely manner on the field. He makes his reads late then has to throw a fastball to try to get it in there. Hes getting time in the pocket tho believe it or not. He just has to do it. But im gettn so pissed and frustrated with him
I would agree with that statement. I do believe he is one of the wort QBs in our programs history, but I will say he is not a true qb, he is a tight end and will always be a tight end. I personally don't thin he should have ever been placed at qb for us. He was decent at best when he had two of the top wife outs in school history and he was still inconsistent. He also crumbled on one of the biggest games against Clemson that year. He didn't have to be a leader that season because we had mostly veterans and we also dw4 which was always a threat to take it to the house.
Last season was a mockery of vt football and this season is shaping up to be the same thing. I do not believe Logan has it in him to lead us to the ACC title game. Glendon can at least say that. Now not al, of this can be put on Logan. I would say a dent percentage is on the coaches. Logan can't help what play is being called and he can't help that the coaches won't utilize me of the best backs we have. The coaches have abandoned the run game sp all the defense has to do is drop 8 and bait Logan into a bad throw. Now secondly he doesn't have much to work with, one senior wr and one standout in Stanford. I believe Coles has let our team down just as much as Logan has. It should have been Logan to Coles all year long but we know that Coles has the work ethic of Marcus Davis. Also being said a qb has to find a way to win even if things are stacked up against him. It's what QBs are supposed to do. Find a way and will your team to a win no matter what the circumstances. I think all around from coaches to players to athletic directors have let the fans down.
Ok, decent post, but who the f-k is "Gendon" and what are "wife outs"? Also, GLENNON did not lead us to the ACCCG. That was Glennon ALONG with T-Mobile and if you'll remember he was benched in favor of him after the '07 season.
Supposed to be Glendon and wide outs, typing on an iPad sucks w the auto correct
I assumed it was the wild turkey
Y'all can downvote this all you want, but I agree, wholeheartedly, with this.
Logan does give us a great chance to win week in and week out. He can run and has the strongest arm of any quarterback in college football. He is also the reason we lose many of the games we do, though. Having four turnovers for two straight weeks against Duke and Boston College is acceptable, especially as a fifth-year senior!
I understand Logan had to sacrifice a lot when he decided to become a QB when he got to Tech, but he DID have experience in high school as a QB. He was also mentored by the second greatest QB in Virginia Tech history, Tyrod Taylor.
My point is, Logan has had PLENTY of time to figure out what is a good decision and what isn't. Yes, our receivers are not the most talented. Yes, they've been responsible for quite a bit of Logan's interceptions, but those guys ARE young, unlike Logan. Not even Sean Glennon made the mistakes as a senior that Logan has.
In all seriousness, I do think Mark Leal should get his shot.
We are starting to sound like Georgia Tech fans bitching about Reggie Ball.
... and Josh Nesbitt.
... and Tevin Washington.
... and now Vad Lee.
Yup. I work with a bunch of GT grads after this years loss they instantly started comparing Lee to Ball.
I purposely bring Reggie Ball up in conversations just to get them all riled up.
To everyone:
But... But...
Ahh nick satan..I bet he beats his players and coaches after mistakes.
Personal Opinion: Joe made a post game (loss) thread. Can't we all post our thoughts in one place? I love hearing your opinions post game, but I can't keep up with everyone's new threads. 10 post game threads is stupid. This is my personal opinion, but can we please consolidate things? (I will try and post this on all the other new threads)
So my thread titled "We're actually a good team" gets deemed as stupid as fuck just off the title by our Joe. And then there's this thread titled "Logan Thomas is the worst qb in VT history"
Starting to think it's a personal thing now. I'm just gonna get away from this site for the day because I love this site and don't want to say something I'll regret. Go Hokies! Fuck Miami
The title of this thread is ridiculously hyperbolic.
People using ad hominem attacks on anyone critical of LT are being equally ridiculous. Don't let it get to you.
Yea, I think there are too many extremes here. Logan is getting too much blame and too much love at the same time. His play certainly is not above criticism, but he also doesn't deserve to be bashed and thrown under the bus. I don't think he should be benched as he does give us the best chance to win IMO, but there is definitely a problem. To not realize he is throwing the ball too fast to nearby receivers is a problem. He doesn't always need so much heat on the ball. He has to remember that these are young and inexperienced receivers, so he is partly to blame if he keeps throwing the ball in a way that makes it hard for them to catch. The other problem is his inability to make good decisions consistently throughout the entire game. A 5th year senior QB can't force a ball into the endzone while on the run only to be intercepted or throw the ball up for grabs when under pressure and falling backwards while the game is tied in the fourth quarter. Those two decisions are what I would expect from a first year starter, not a three year starter. And that is where our problem is. I don't know how you go about fixing that though.
I feel bad for Logan. He was originally wanted to be a TE and it seems like he wants to work hard to be a qb, but he just doesn't seem to have that natural qb quality or awareness. I hope he still has a future in the NFL, even if it isn't at quarterback.
I agree. His big problem is his lack of pocket awareness. That coupled with a lack of experienced decision making have been the root of his poor judgement calls.
If he makes that switch at the next level, God bless him and I will root for him.
He'll still be Tech's leading passer in my mind and in the books, even if he catches passes from Aaron Rodgers for a career at the next level. (I can dream, can't I?)
Jacksonville is picking him up. I can just feel it.
There goes my optimism.
Logan Thomas has 33 turnovers since the start of last season. That's tied for the most in FBS over that span
With who?
that I have no idea. I just saw on twitter. Im actually looking it up now and trying to find out who he is tied with
ESPN Stats & Info @ESPNStatsInfo 16h
Logan Thomas has 33 turnovers since the start of last season. That's tied for the most in FBS over that span.
If a receiver or running back coughed up the ball 8 times in two games, regardless of talent level, would they play? No. And that's why I'm officially on the Mark Leal train at this point. He can't possibly be worse than this. Logan may give us an opportunity to win at times, but he's always directly responsible for these two losses. I don't think any of the current excuses - no weapons, TE playing QB - hold water at this point. Recall that, in game TWO of 2007, the coaches pulled the rug out on Sean Glennon, a QB who actually played QB and had had four years of development at that point for an 18 year old with "upside". I'm not saying that Leal is Tyrod, but I'm saying that "upside" at this point could be considered a QB who doesn't turn the ball over 4 times a game.
Additionally, Leal needs game experience if he's to be the starter next year, and I honestly don't think he could be worse at this point. Not to mention he's not built to run this veer/read option system where the running back is bigger than he is. Put the QB under center, let it be Leal, hand off to the best player on our team 30 times a game (Trey), and give us an actual shot to win on offense. OK, rant over.
Yeah but do you have to put the exact same comment on multiple posts? Just sayin...
If they were unquestionably the best offensive weapon that I had, and I was still very much in contention to win an ACC championship and get to a BCS game...
Absolutely.
Ask Tom Coughlin about David Wilson
Mark Cox, [first name forgotten] Greenwood. Mid-80s. I would say "you could look them up," but Hokiesports.com doesn't recognize anything outside the Beamer era - at least, I couldn't find it. But those two names alone invalidate the title of this post. Remember, kids, some of us were around when Tech didn't get a bowl game every year, or national games, or any of that. They were dark, cold days, indeed.
And "devoid of clutch... Let us not speak of it."
David Lamie 1977-78 was the worst
Never ever ever say Grant Noel is or was a good QB. Never ever ever...
Hey folks, y'all do realize that this post was basically a parody, right?
-says Obvious Guy
that's what I thought. Then I clicked and skimmed the comments and saw this:
Edit - want to make it clear that the comments look like this - not the original post.
Uhh, Vietnam Conflict press footage? Seriously comparing all this to napalm? Smdh
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flame+war
All of these threads strike me more as:
Yea but I kinda think the Nam docu footage with the napalmed victims comparison is overdoing it. Just sayin...
Is it though? Enough people are going crazy right now with the world ending you never really know. Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet
Also, if it was sarcasm, great call on making a huge title on a popular website that most people just skimming the board will only see as you proclaiming our current quarterback as the worst one in history at a time when people are legitimately saying this. Very forward thinking
I was referring to the post itself. Not the commentators. And that's why folks should click on it to take a gander. Not everything is as appears.
Not sure if you guys stuck around on ABC and listened to Jesse Palmer. Some of you hate him and think his opinion is always crap (myself included). However I thought he hit it pretty well mentioning that when Logan plays good, VT does not lose. And that's a fact. He mentioned that VT is 14-0 when Logan doesn't throw a pick. Just some food for thought.
Play nice guys, we aren't that fanbase. Hokie Nation ain't 'bout this life.
And VT's record when he throws a pick?
lol
Inconsistency is the killer for any sports team and Virginia Tech Football has too much of it right now, specifically on Offense and Special Teams. I WANT to scream 'Bench Logan Thomas!' but I can't. There are too many factors at work to blame him alone. The list of egregious errors that we've made over the course of this season goes on and on, and some of them persist. Sometimes using numbers helps me.
I understand there are flaws to the assumptions here but I am trying to highlight consistency across the board on offense as the real problem with this team.
Let's say that 80% of the time, our WR's catch balls that should be caught. 75% of the time, Logan Thomas delivers a ball that can be caught, 70% of the time, Logan makes the correct read, 90% of the time our blockers are making correct blocks to give Logan the time to make the read. that means that around 38% of our passing plays will be executed properly. If we applied this basic math to the duke and the bc games, what do we look like? My guess is that the above numbers wouldn't be far off.
How about the run game? How often does Logan make the correct read off inverted veer? How often do the RB's wait for the right seam? My guesses for these %'s wouldn't be very good over the entirety of the season.
Not related but wanted to share my thoughts on the program overall.
Be patient. Get Andrew Ford down here. Get our fresh O-line talent down here. Continue to grow Cline, Stanford, Byrn, Edmunds, etc and keep getting kids on D who play fast and physical. This team, just like the numbers above, will be great when we are consistently executing in all phases of the game - WE CAN DO THAT. We've been a good offense before (right, guys? we....we did have a good offense that one time! right?), we've had great special teams, we HAVE the pedigree to be more than competent in all three phases of the game. So, again, as fans we have to be patient - know that the coaches are focusing on getting the right people in the right places, and before you know it big things will start happening again in Blacksburg. I love this football team...GO HOKIES!
Oooh probability theory. Like.
Worst post in history. Serves no purpose.
Go Logan. Go team. Go Hokies!
So true.
Neither of those pictured above would survive a half in this offense. Logan puts 10 men on his back and takes more hits than a Miley Cyrus video. Win or lose, he's our man.
I bet you thought that in 2011, too. The guys doesn't have a supporting cast and probably passed for more yards this game than any other.
So instead of bashing players who have committed 4 years of their life to a football program, let's talk the real issue. Offensive recruiting. This should satisfy people on both sides of this asinine and completely unproductive argument. Per my very quick ESPN research, we got the following players LISTED at quarterback (because apparently that's so special) to sign on in Logan's year or after: Mark Leal, Ricardo Young and BUCKY FUCKING HODGES IN 20 GOD DAMN 13. Joel Caleb is the highest rated offensive player since...you guessed it...DAVID MOTHER FUCKING WILSON. Say what you want about ESPN and recruiting rankings but the odds of someone becoming a successful player are much higher if they are ranked highly by recruiting services. So yes, once again, #BlameStinespring.
/rant over
No true doctor of hokienomics would misspell the name so egregiously. You may have a PhD, sir, but I invented the subject.
What did I misspell?
If I had to guess, I'd say he's referring to your use of "nomix" instead of "nomics" as the suffix
After watching the Falcons, specifically Matt Ryan, struggle again this weekend, I came out of it thinking I may need to cut Logan some slack.
Matt Ryan has been a top NFL QB the last 2-3 years. This year, he is making boneheaded throws, throwing into coverage, etc. He has 7 int's the past 2 games. I don't think Matt has suddenly become a bad NFL QB. There are some similarities between the VT offense and the Falcons offense though:
- The Falcons O line has lost good players to free agency (Dahl), injury (Baker, Mike Johnson), and they haven't drafted particularly well (Konz 2nd round)
- Their big free agency pickup, Steven Jackson, has been hurt all year and generally ineffective. He rarely is able to get back to LOS before the first hit
- The Falcons two biggest impact players, Julio Jones and Roddy White, have played sparingly because of injury and were both out the past two weeks. Roddy tried to play on a high ankle sprain (now this is getting eerily similar to a VT offense!) and was a shell of himself. The coaches finally got him to sit out the last 2 games which ended his consecutive game streak.
So the combination of a poor offensive line, no good receivers, and injuries at RB have left Matt Ryan in a position where he has to try to do too much and is forcing the ball.
While LT is certainly to blame for some of the offensive problems, he doesn't have much around him and that is also a big contributor to his struggles.
And I'm really hoping this post gets me my first turkey leg.
On a similar note, don't forget the all time NFL career touchdowns and interceptions leader is the same person: Brett Favre. Most interceptions in a rookie season? Peyton Manning.
A lot of quarterbacks throw picks, some can run a successful offense in spite of them. We had the latter on Saturday, but it wasn't enough (winning with a -4 turnover margin would have been quite the feat).
I think its funny a little bit. I've noticed that there's a specific user that I won't name. They post all the time negatively when we lose, but when everything is going well its just coasting...No one here likes to lose period. And if we all didn't agree on being VT fans why would be here right? So, the way I honestly look at it. Yes, I got mad that we lost who wouldn't? But when its every week bashing of VT's coaching, playing, recruiting. I just thought that it was quite funny to me, because we as fans want to hold Beamer and Co. to very high standards and that's undertandable, but when its time for us to ante-up and support them even when its bad we kick them when they're down or need us the most. Yeah I get it. I understand that's the "life of a fan", but those same kids out there that are 18 years old that are considering going here. They see these same rants by us. And I'd be honest if my son was of age and he was blessed to have a schorlarship offer from VT and I myself as a parent would disapprove of him going here period after seeing some of these posts. Yea I know this goes on at every school so you'll say its not different, but its funny to me how Bama fans aren't fighting or LSU fans aren't fighting within themselves at least none that I've came across online or in person in North Carolina....Maybe winning is the answer? Maybe its coaching?....Maybe its better players?....Maybe its better fans? Whatever it maybe..... So please don't compare VT to SEC or NFL, because were not! They're not us and we're not them. I said it before on here and I'll say it again! We don't play second to none! No matter win or lose, I've chosen to be a Hokie and no one forced me to be one. So if your tired of LT and don't want to support him...I say this in the most respectful way possible. "Please Exit stage left!"
Go Hokies!
Good luck raising your son in a sheltered bubble such that mean things won't ever be said to him. By the way, people are critical of players online at every other school with the exception of maybe UVA, because apathy for their football program has already set in there. Also, parents should keep their kids in a basement with no Internet access away from all interaction with their peers until they graduate from college, which is the age that society deems acceptable for men and women to begin coping with any criticism.
Seriously though, most of what is written on this site is not slanderous for the sake of it. Most of what you're having a knee-jerk reaction to is just honest analysis of performance. If one can't accept any criticism, then one shouldn't put oneself on a stage in front of hundreds of thousands of spectators.
I never said I would raise my son in a bubble and if you read my post I've already said like every other school...You sir fail....And I never said there's nothing wrong with criticism, but there's a thin line between criticism and complete bashing of this kid. If it made its way up to Bitter's blog and to Beamer then its no longer just harmless criticism...It clearly affects him and the team, but you might have never had to deal with pressure like that. He's not being paid and to be honest he doesn't have to care what you or I think. Period.... All he has to do is be the best man he can be and give his all and at the end of the day that's all I could ask for as a fan. You sir thanks for your opinion, but the upbringing of my son has nothing to do with your post I said I would disapprove I never said I would make choices for him, but I myself as a parent would steer my child in the way where he can grow up and be successful....So Exit Stage Left!
I'm saying that I haven't seen many posts on this site completely bashing Logan. Most of what is brought up are valid criticisms. The difference between this site and Bitter's blog, is that one is full of inane trolling by opposing teams' fans, and the other is mainly analysis (albeit sometimes very critical) by fans of VT.
The football scholarship players may not get a paycheck, but they get compensated in other ways, and handsomely. Free education, free meal plans, free room & board, swag, nutrition, training, being rockstars on campus. Please, don't act like these guys get nothing for being D1 amateur athletes.
This thread is abysmal. Just absolutely abysmal.
With extreme passion comes extreme criticism. When people stop caring is when we will really have issues. At this point everyone needs to try to take the high road and be respectful to the guy and team that we will all be pulling for Saturday night.
100% agree.
I'll take inane bitch fighting for a 1000 please Alex.
This is TKP. You are all Hokies. Cut out the cat fights and name calling. If you can't make your opinion without insulting others or down voting their opinion simply because you disagree then this is the wrong forum for you. Use your words. Make relevant, researched points and make them. If you disagree the do so with respect. We've lost 3 games. The world isn't over and VT football, believe it or not, is on the rise in the coming years. Chillax...
Joe, can we institute a bitch fighting penalty rule? -50 turkey legs per comment. Please?
Lmao! Ok, Fern. Bitch fighting for 100. Let's see what we got...
Sorry. I just thought this was amusingly hilarious.
It was meant to be subversively amusing. Was trying to PS a image of Will Ferrell saying it but didn't have the time.
Just my 2 cents on Logan...yes, the Duke game was bad. As far as the BC game...
I thought Logan made 3 bad plays in this game...
1 - He overthrew Calvin Kline when was wide open in the 3rd quarter (I think right after the Demtri INT)
2 - He didn't hold the ball close enough to his body on the last fumble of the game
3 - He threw a terrible pick-6, a play that's 100% inexcusable
but...that's 3 bad plays. The other 2 turnovers weren't his fault. So take those 3 bad plays and contrast that with how many good plays he made on Saturday....there were a LOT of good plays on offense.
If nothing else, look solely at the last drive of the first half. We had 3 holding penalties on that drive costing us 30 yards. Two of those penalties were on the same series, and the offense faced 2nd-and-30. Logan came out throwing and moved us down the field to set up CJ's long field goal before half.
- how many other QBs in recent memory could have led that drive?
- how many other QBs in recent memory, including Tyrod, Randall, MV2, etc...would the coaches even trust enough to stay aggressive on a 2nd-and-3o from our own 20 yard line with 90 seconds left in the half?
The pick 6 was a terrible play, and Logan directly cost the team 7 points. But, if you hold that against him, you gotta give him credit for the 27 we did score, including those 3 before half that we probably don't get with anyone else under center.
The team fought hard, everyone including Logan and SL and CFB tried their best, but we lost. We're not Alabama or FSU...sometimes our best isn't good enough and we lose, even to teams that aren't great. That's life right now. All I know is I'm supporting whoever is under center. Hoping we beat Miami cause I hate da U.
...just my 2 cents
Are you serious man? This is the 3rd time I have read this...at least I'm pretty sure anyways.
Me too. That and can we all post in one place? I think they're serious.
It may not seem like it, but oftentimes football can come down to a few big plays, especially with our team. Very, very rarely will you see a team march 80 yards down the field against our D so it's these big plays that make the difference.
That Logan fumble when we were up 7 with the ball absolutely turned the game around. Our defense was in total control at that point (BC hadn't had a legitimate drive since the first quarter and had 3 straight 3 and outs) and they were showing no signs of turning that around. To me, that fumble was just as bad as the INT because it let BC back in the game.
I don't understand why Frank is so hell bent on not letting Mark Leal attempt to do better. I remember a time when he flip-flopped Sean Glennon and Tyrod Taylor back and forth. He yanked Grant Noel for Bryan Randall. Say what you will but Logan Thomas was the QB for us during our worst season since 1992. He is 13-9 as a starter since 2012. No one else seems to remember that. Its just pat him on the back and keep chugging along. And to be fair I will also put blame on the O-line for not blocking anybody during the BC game. One guy had 3 sacks and a couple of forced fumbles. That is a nightmare scenario if you're up front. Means you got it handed to you multiple times.
Look, Doctor. I understand what you're saying but these are incredibly different situations. Noel was not in charge of a young team that plays wildly inconsistent. He was a QB that played wildly inconsistent. It was the exact opposite situation.
But let's just consider what you are saying on it's principle. Replacing the QB for the backup.
Consider that Logan is the leader of the team. Every player has said so and every player supports him. As a coach you replace them that sends shockwaves of negative feelings throughout your team. That's not trying to be new age about it, it's simply a morale issue.
And others suggested you can't just try Leal out to see if he can make plays. Not with a 5th year senior that sacrificed a potential career at TE for the team who, while makes some bad decisions, is 100% not completely at fault. You can do that with younger players, not a 5th year who is the recognized leader. If you go with Leal then Logan is done. You can't bring him back.
And for the record, the worst QB in VT history was Marcus Vick.
Marcus was actually one of the more talented qb's we have had, he just had a 2 cent head
No Marcus is definitely the worst. Talent don't mean shit if you can't even finish a season without getting suspended. I'll take any other QB over Marcus because he is not reliable and a phucking moron in making life decisions.
Marcus Vick actually cut in front of me in line at Owens once. In retrospect, it was quite wise of me to say nothing. I may have found myself staring down the business end of a firearm over a cheese steak.
GOLD
Did you get him to sign something?
A friend of mine was a bouncer at PKs. Marcus tried to use mv7 Id to get in...
Yeah uh you're definitely not looking at the record. I would put Glennon, Noel, Clark, etc as astronomically worse QBs than MV5.
Looking at the record? yeah, I definitely am. Marcus 0-3 for completing a season with out being suspended partly or fully during or for next season. 0 -1 for graduating or moving to next level. 1-0 for being dismissed. 0-1 in life, but yes 1-0 for being a fucking loser. The only thing he has excelled in his life is being convicted.
Marcus threw 19 touchdowns and 15 interceptions in his "career" if you can even call it that. Logan is 48 TDs to 38 Ints, not that is stellar work but at least he finishes a season, never been arrested and doesn't embarrass the entire university on national television. And neither did Glennon, Noel, Clark or any others.
Marcus Vick: Worst QB in Hokie History
I'm talking strictly about on the field. Geez who farted in your coffee?
I think people are entitled to establish how they define poor performance and what constitutes the "worst QB in VT history." Off-field performance counts, in my book. Looking at the record, Marcus has an impressive one. A criminal record, that is. He goes down in my book as the biggest waste of talent in VT history, and is partially (if not largely) responsible for us developing a reputation as thugs by some in the media (and even other schools).
And I am talking strictly as a complete picture of a QB. On field, off field, leadership, character. Everything you need in a QB. On field talent doesn't matter if the person drags the team down into their personal mess. That's what Marcus was doing.
You are seriously taking offense to this? Everything I said was true and none of it was offensive to you or in general. So what's the problem man? It's just a discussion. People have different opinions. Some more reasonable and fact driven than others. No need to get upset and take it personally.
It would appear (most likely) to the readers that you're the one getting emo. I didn't down vote you. I'm not upset but I (and probably a number of others) just happen to disagree with you. Waste of talent? Sure I'll go that route. But I'm not upset.
haha... you have a very interesting perspective on the way you read things. Let's review:
1) never said you down voted me, and I don't mind if you do.
2) was talking about your "who farted in your coffee?" quip which directly implies you taking it personal, therefore getting upset.
3) I don't mind you disagreeing with me, in fact... I literally just said in my previous post that it's a discussion and you shouldn't take it personal.
4) I am sure lots of people disagree with me, and I am also sure, like Guitarman, lots of people agree with me. That's what happens in any discussion, but you shouldn't take it personal (eg. see point #2)
Regarding point 2, that was my reaction to your posts. Any psych major would be able to deduct that you're clearly the one taking things personally with your snarky comments and responses, but you go ahead and think what you think. Makes no difference to me.
Also, Beamer did do that with. Randall and MV5 for da []_[] back in '03 AND for Glennon a la T-Mobile in '07 and '08. Just sayin...
Neither Marcus nor Glennon were the leader on the team though.
Randall was loved by his teammates. Marcus not so much. Glennon was Glennon. He never got settled with the team or the position. And neither Glennon, nor Marcus were 5th year seniors who switched positions for the team.
So what I hear you basically saying is that if Beamer wanted to bench Logan in order to light a fire under his arse, thusly giving Leal some semi meaningful playing time, he should have done that last year or earlier?
Because (yes you're correct in that they weren't 5th yrs) he did pull Randall for Marcus in that Miami game AND he did pull Glennon for Tyrod both in '07 and '08.
Is that what I hear you saying??
The Glennon-Tyrod years were a mess. I never knew who the starter would be and it always seemed as if (1) it didn't matter much who started and (2) Beamer probably flipped a coin an hour before kickoff. He knew Tyrod had potential but Glennon had experience. No clear winner there. Ultimately, Tyrod was awesome, but those first couple years our QB situation was a trainwreck (also due in large part to MV5 throwing our QB situation into turmoil before them).
Beamer can choose to bench Logan anytime he wants. Could start this game. It's his decision.
My point is that would be a stupid decision. This is Logan's 3rd year as a starter and there has not been a time when benching him to light that particular fire was a logical conclusion. After 2010? No way. Logan straight up gamed all season. 2011? For who, Leal? He had zero experience. Logan just had a big year and the cracks in VT coaching staff, and recruiting, was what broke the dam of staff continuity. It was clear that the offensive coaching staff had to go and they did. Proving Beamer will still make the big boy decisions if he needs to. So now in 2013, Logan is THE leader of the team. Every coach and player saying so and you want to bench him for an unproven backup mid-season? No coach would do that man. Do you honestly believe that is a good decision?
That doesn't light a fire. That tells everyone you are not confident in them. Logan is the leader. If he falls the team falls.
Seemed to have lit a fire under Randall's and Glennon' arses. Definitely made Randall work harder to win back Beamers confidence.
different players are affected differently. coach Beamer knows this. but the reason I'm just a dude lying in bed with a hangover and he's payed millions of dollars is that he can tell what the effects are going to be.
I cant even call logan a leader when hes throwing teammates under a bus. A real leader shoulders the blame, and he deserves to shoulder most of the blame. Not sure if you read the interviews yesterday, but there was subtle jabs at Leal and I didn't appreciate that at all. It was as if him and beamer were throwing leal under the bus. My problem about this program is there should be competition at every position. Its pretty sad your not worried about getting pulled when your the worst qb in D1 football as far as turnovers go. Your play should dictate how you see the field. Being this late in logan's career he is what he is, he isn't gonna get better on the field this yr. So we have to accept his short comings unfortunately.
I think people read what they want to read into comments. You want to be done with him, to bench him, and to try out Leal, so you look for comments that damage Logan.
Listen people - benching Logan and trotting out Leal is going to go about as well as when the Redskins trotted out John Beck. You think the offense is a disaster now, wait and see what happens when you remove the ONLY thing that works some of the time.
No I didn't see the interviews. What did they say? (I am traveling and on my phone so difficult to search around the internet rapidly) I also don't jive with any under bus throwing
Andy posted about it yesterday:
http://blogs.roanoke.com/andybittervirginiatechfootball/2013/11/04/frank...
I think it depends on how you read it. LT is clearly agitated and tired of answering the same question, but I don't interpret that as throwing Leal under the bus. He didn't say anything negative about him. He's just saying, "I'm the starter, the coaches say I'm the starter and I'm not getting pulled, so let's talk about something else."
thanks Guitarman. Yeah, gotta say I don't see a bus anywhere in those comments. In fact if I was Leal, comments like that from Beamer is exactly what I want to hear. Why? because next year is my year, my ONLY year, and there is a young hotshot QB named Andrew Ford, recruited by our current OC, that fans will be calling for. Or for Bucky... If I am Leal I want to see Beamer sticking up for his embattled QB more than ever. Exactly like this.
This x10000!! It is so refreshing to see some HOKIE fans with a positive outlook. What is beamer suppose to do say Yeah you know what the last 3 years we thought Logan was our guy and this year we figured out he wasn't. Sure thats the quickest way to get fired, and totally ruin a guys confidence. Some of you might say Logan has no confidence. How about you put on some pads and run the ball 20+ times and take some of the hits he takes. Not to mention when he gets pilled up for the 3 yard he is taking 4-5 hits at a time.
In Regards to Leal I wouldn't expect anything more, if he thought he was the better QB then we would see it talked about more and he would have made some statements the past few weeks. Instead he is getting behind his QB, his brother, his freaking TEAMMATE and telling him look this is your job I'm here to support you. Go out there and show them what we see in practice every day, A Future NFL QB with freakish talent and size.
The biggest problem was O'cain that's why we are seeing all of these problems. Not getting through his progressions, chopping his feet, his mechanics. O'cain did nothing for him an Logan even called him out on it. We all have to remember the last 3 years he really had no QB coach and just worked with what he knew. Now he is learning all these things and its taking some time to polish.
All you folks being critical of LT need to go knock on CFB's office door this week and tell him what a great job you'll do in LT's place.
Please let us all know how that turns out.
I'm offering this as constructive criticism: this post reads as if it was posted by an 11 year old. In the words of the MNF crew, "CMON MAN!"
My post was constructive criticism in the form of sarcasm - it's not my problem you failed to grasp that very simple concept. Now who's the "11 year old"?
Just because you're retired does not give you the right to be condescending. Based on a number of posts and your username, I'm getting the idea that you're just some grumpy old guy who talks down to everyone on here, so proceed if you take pleasure in pissing everyone off.
The "if you're so good, why don't you do it yourself" argument as it pertains to sports is the most immature arugment one can make. It reflects a complete lack of intelligence. Obviously your post is sarcastic because I doubt the average person is even allowed to get to his office, but what point were you even trying to make by posting that?
It's ironic that I'm saying this to someone who's been living for 3X as long as me, but I'm speaking on behalf of a number of people that you've belittled when I say you really need to grow up. And i know you're going to come back and tell me that I'm stupid/need to grow up so let me just reiterate that you're a 60 year old man picking fights with college-age kids on the internet.
Since I prefer to be up-beat and positive about the players and the team, I'm a "grumpy old man"? Really?? That's a rather interesting definition of the word "grumpy", don't you think? Seems a little bass-ackwards to me, but hey, whatever winds your clock.
"Condescending"? "Belittling"? No, not at all, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But, I'm beginning to think you're right on the edge of posting personally insulting and abusive remarks. If that's where you want to take this discussion, you can count me out.
Are you that clueless? Do you really not think this is condescending?
My post was constructive criticism in the form of sarcasm - it's not my problem you failed to grasp that very simple concept. Now who's the "11 year old"?
And get off your high horse. Just a week ago you wrote another condescending post directed at me in which you insulted Logan Thomas. So don't sit here and say that you're defending our players because you flip-flop every week.
I think I could do that. I'd be the quarterback TKP wants, not the one they need.
I promise I wouldn't throw a single INT, and we would run the ball almost every play. Because as soon as the ball is snapped I'd just start running away from the big guys who want to take my head off . Don't worry, I'll give the ball to the running back so the defense doesn't follow me.
Beamer tried that exact same thing when defending Stiney for OC and it backfired on him.
Hmm..I'd love to see either of them throw the ball 40 times in a game with ZERO running game and not average 4 INT's per game let alone gain nearly 400 yards passing. That's laughable.
Nope...LT3 is going to have a great end of this season.
Lol, a down vote for being optimistic? Some people are having a bad two weeks.
This is the worst thread in TKP history...
Request to editors: Can we not just delete this whole thing?
Yeah, its really embarassing...for the Logan haters.
Hahahahahahaha this looks silly now
It was a parody.
No, it wasn't.
Yes it was. Nothing more than pure sarcasm. At least it was to me.
Given the series of the Doctor's other comments on several other threads, many of which were purely vitriolic towards LT, this was absolutely not a joke or sarcasm. I love what Joe did here.
lol
Hahaha, hilarious.
Izzat Adam Sandler?
Joe the Editor found it meet to use the term "redacted" instead of "edited."
This linguist approves.