I'm not trying to say "I told you so" to anyone, I would just like to hear from those who may still think Leal should be starting. If Logan's play last night didn't change your mind, why not?
The discussions about whether Leal should be playing last week were, for the most part, reasonable and respectful. Just like I didn't lose faith in Thomas after a few bad performances, I'm sure there are some out there who haven't fallen in love with Thomas again after one good great performance.
Remember everyone, this is an non-hostile environment! I want to see where the community is at on the "Logan vs Leal" debate!
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Absolutely, Leal should start. That is, start getting ready for 2014 to pick up where Logan left off.
I never did bite on the Leal over Thomas discussion.
I don't think the coaches did either.
I think the coaches are aware of some things that we are not.
For instance, why did the O line suddenly play like a world class O line last night? That had to have Thomas much more relaxed, he could actually step into throws.
The O line was really the difference in the Offense last night. Edmunds going into TD untouched?
(Sung to the tune of thigh bone's connected to the hip bone song)
the O line is connected to the running game.
The running game is connected to the passing game.
The passing game is connected to the QB's game.
The knee bone is connected to the shin bone.
The shin bone is connected to the ankle bone.
I applaud CFB's faith in LT by calling the timeout when his helmet came off to keep him in the game...but I'm not going to lie, I was kind of excited to see what Leal would do. I immediately thought of the game against Miami where Thomas came in for Taylor in a similar situation and connected on a beautiful pass across the middle to get a first down on 3rd and long.
I like how much confidence CFB has in Thomas but at the same time I wonder what that move does for Leal's confidence. I would really like to see Leal play in the second half of blowout victories over UMD and LOLUVA
Great performance by LT, but I think the running game really helped him out. It was nice to see SL call more than 12 running plays (not read options) to the RBs and I think the RB's really helped open things up for Thomas. The line did a great job of keeping him on his feet too and I don't think Thomas ever got uncomfortable. I think if Thomas can find a groove early and stay off his back he's really dangerous. I like his chances for the next 2 games.
Definitely. I want to see Leal in the second half against Maryland and LOLUVA because they are already down 3+ TD's.
Here are the critical issues with using the timeout and going with Thomas at that point:
1) Thomas had an equipment problem, not an injury.
2) Leal was coming in cold without an opportunity to warm up or take snaps. Even if Thomas had to miss the next play, Beamer would have needed to use a timeout.
3) The 3rd and 12 was a critical play in what was still a close game, and that is a real tough spot to put any backup in to.
By the way, if Loeffler and Shane listened to anybody this week, it was Mason. The offense we saw, with powers, zone stretches (both often from the pistol) was much more indicative of how the Hokies WILL play next year. There was less reliance on the inverted veer, and that forced Miami to defend the entire field. Add that to the fact that the passing structure design continues to be excellent, and it was executed properly with more aggressive playcalling, and we have success.
The most frustrating part is that if this offense was used and executed properly against Duke and BC, I think we beat both teams comfortably. Miami is a more talented front than Duke, and had a better secondary than BC, and most of the game they looked silly.
I was proud of the way Thomas handled adversity and confidently lead his football team. His demeanor and body language was so much stronger than Morris right from the opening kickoff. He was checking down properly, but he was making sure that those deeper passes that have been getting open got a look before the check down. His accuracy on most passes were excellent, and while the rain usually aides receivers getting open, Thomas was hitting receivers on deeper crosses and deep ins. Those are not easy throws.
There were a couple of nice plays where he threw completions that moved the sticks, but he still had throws that were not particularly accurate (the roll out to Byrn on a 3rd and 8 in the 4th Q and a play action throw off a fake jet sweep to Coleman... both throws were behind the receivers and they had to make subtle yet tough adjustments to make the catch.) The other criticism, which should have been addressed by the staff in the game was clock management. In the 4th quarter, Wang was often snapping the ball with 12-15 seconds left on the play clock. When there was four minutes left in the game, there probably should have been about a minute and a half. It didn't burn them this week, but in a close game, nursing a lead, that can become a major mistake.
4) Thomas was red hot at the time.
Here's the question I have not yet researched.
How are the defensive lines for Md and UVA? Well, I can guess UVA.
If our O line can rule the day like they did last night, we'll beat MD with our Offense.
Actually, UVA's D-line is probably the strength of their team. Harold is a very good DE and IIRC, they also have at least one solid DT as well.
UVA will have Brent Urban back for that game, so they will be better than they looked versus UNC. I have no idea on Maryland other than Marcus Whitfield is one of the ACC leaders in sacks with 7.5
Maryland's front seven, and more specifically their line, isn't very good. I talked to my brother and some friends who go to UMD before the season and they all told me that UMD is very bad on both lines. They don't have playmakers anymore either and that's showing. I didn't watch yesterday but from the texts I got it sounded like their team is starting to quit.
Only scoring 3 points against Syracuse on your home field isn't not very good at all. That FSU loss was just devastating for them.
I didn't know Urban would be back.
From the little I know about Md, they're tough to pin down from game to game.
In any case, I think that's the key. We've proved we can rule LOS on Offense. IIHO, if we do it again for the next 2 games, very doable, we pad stats.
I have been hearing that he had a chance to play against UNC, but they chose to hold him out. I don't follow the wahoo beat, so I have no idea how accurate it is.
I do know that Urban is a very good player. Their DL has not been the same since he went down.
If he can tackle, he should start on kick off and punt coverage!
This pissing contest is beyond old. If he comes out and turns it over 4 times again next week, the next wave of useless LT threads will pop up. He's inconsistent people, that's the bottom line. He is obviously capable of fantastic games like this. He is just as capable of the head-scratching performances such as BC & Duke.
Can we talk about the rest of the team for once? Fuck.
Have to agree with you, the forums have had a lot of threads which have been all about whether you like Logan Thomas or not and it has gotten to be really old. There are people who are going to hate Logan one week and love him the next, that is just how it is. For me, his inconsistency on turnovers is a problem. What was it someone said, we're like 14-0 when he hasn't turned the ball over? That's great. I'm going to praise Logan when he has a great game but I don't want to be looked down upon for being not pointing fingers when he doesn't play well. True, he played great in the BC game but a few turnovers cost us.
All in all, Logan hate does NOT need to happen. It is beyond rude and disrespectful. He is our quarterback and he has done a lot for us. But hating people who critique what goes on because they love the team shouldn't happen either. It is an old argument.
I actually think the TKP community in general has done a fantastic job at criticizing Thomas's play and not Thomas. I think it's pretty rare for a person to get hated on for pointing out that Thomas had a bad game against BC and Duke. Not a lot of people dispute that.
The question of whether Thomas should start despite his incosistent play was the most debated topic the past week. My reason for re-examining the debate was because those who thought that Leal should start were aware of what Thomas was capable of on good weeks, and what he's capable of on bad weeks. I thought it would be interesting to find out if "Leal Starters" still felt that Thomas was too inconsistent to rely on every week.
I meant critiquing play. My only basis for saying this is that I got down-voted a lot for saying the turn-overs were inexcusable the past two weeks. I know the forums are wild and everyone has raw emotions after losing a game, but that got me down a bit. I know, I know, there are a few bad apples everywhere. I've never been one to scream for leal to put in because anyone with common sense would know that that would not solve anything. Right now, Logan is our best chance to win and the coaches have to be loyal to him because they, like us, know what he is capable of when he is on point. It is sticky situation trying not to step on toes. The rest of the forum has been great, nothing short of usual! When we have AMAZING wins like last night we should all come together and praise every member of the team, especially the quarterback who threw the yards he did.
I don't think anyone on here could honestly say any quarterback would've been better for us than Logan right now. If they do, they're lying.
Yes. Me likes that Stanford fellow. He'll be fun to watch the next (hopefully) few years.
To be fair...
You knew what the thread was about when you clicked on it. It's right in the title.
I realize, just wanted to say my piece. Lately I've been avoiding the majority of the user generated content these days because it's mostly the same crap.
touche
I totally get where you are coming from. But I find it ironic, in a humorous way, that the guy with the name "BlameGlennon" takes issue with debating the active QB's play. I get your point though. I think debating the team's play is what this site is about at it's core though, what you are talking about, and what I agree with, is the bitch fighting and hair pulling that posters are doing.
I'm hopeful the remaining two games are in hand by halftime and Leal gets some playing time. I know one thing, FSU will be wanting and watching for VT to lose a game. Trust me, there coaches are very afraid of Bud and the Boys.
I think Leal brings a different asset to the table than Logan. One huge difference is the height advantage Thomas has over Leal, whereupon Leal has to move around in the pocket while actively scanning the field (think Drew Brees or Russel Wilson), to find his receiver.
That said, I am honestly glad that Beamer went ahead and burned a timeout to prevent Leal getting the snap, and potentially fueling further controversy. However, there will be some who will say that Beamer should have just gone ahead and let Leal take the snap. To that, I say, to what end? Thomas has been playing masterfully all night long, the offense finally got things rolling, and let's not forget how well the offensive line played by putting their hats on Miami's hats and driving.
I think Mark Leal will get his chance this spring, but even then, there are absolutely no guarantee that Leal will step in as the starter. I really think Brenden Motley will give Leal the run for the money while Andrew Ford may come in and blow everybody's socks off.
Anyway, I think Beamer made the correct decision to stick by Thomas, and Byrn paid that off with a huge 3rd down conversion, but let's also give Knowles the pat on the butt for recovering the fumble in the end zone. That was a huge, huge play. Byrn was understandable upset with himself, but at least did you all see Logan immediately go to comfort Byrn after congratulating Knowles? That, my friends, are what a senior quarterback do.
I like Leal, I really do, but I'm sticking by Thomas and makes no apologies about it.
While Logan played lights out, I don't think 1 amazing game out of 24 warrants undisputed praise. BTW, I was never in the "play Leal" camp. Logan has been, and should remain, the starter.
Is there a way I can see a replay yet, I missed the entire first half watching Thor 2.
....forgive me.
I was at a wedding and saw none of it. I'm waiting for the every snap
You need a slingbox and unlimited data
The slingbox is money. Watching on my phone or computer makes working on the weekends bearable.
Holy shit, that's where I was too with the Mrs! Only difference is I saw the 1st half.
If I ever marry a woman who makes me leave after a first half like THAT, I'm getting a divorce.
This is just the highlights, but I enjoyed watching them again anyway!
http://vtphreak4evr.wordpress.com/?blogsub=confirming#blog_subscription-3
WatchESPN has had the full game replay online since Sunday morning, assuming you have some sort of cable subscription.
I've always find it frustrating with people bring up debates like this. Maybe with the exception of French-level fans, the coaches have a far superior knowledge base and years more of experience than the average fan. It just sounds ignorant when a fan makes a flippant comment like "Leal should start over Thomas and the coaches are stupid for not doing that" when fans haven't A) Seen every practice and dealt with these players on a personal level B) Lack a competent knowledge of X's and O's and advance football strategy C) Don't have as much on the line as the coaches do (coaches have to worry about job security/families/reputation, none of those things are involved with fans).
We finally have great coaches on both sides of the ball, let them do their job.
StinyFTL pretty much echos my ENTIRE opinion on this matter. We are FANS. We are NOT coaches. Our coaches get paid A LOT of money because they know A LOT MORE about football than we do. If they thought for a second that Mark Leal gave us a better chance of winning games, he would be starting .. /DISCUSSION
Logan was the 8th best QB this week, according to total QBR. For reference, he was the 80th ranked QB against BC and 88th against Duke. If he performs this well from here on out, I will replace my sentiments of average QB to great QB, worthy of 2nd-4th Rd selection in the NFL draft. If he is inconsistent, and can't put together more performances like this, then he's a hell of a gamble, and I don't know if he'll ever reach that consistently elite level.
Turkey leg for a valid assessment.
Where did you get those stats?
ABoB, completely off-topic, but as I sit here in my lab trying to get work done, I have a burning desire to pour you into a bottle of Dr. Pepper. That is all.
Well you already seem to be distracted, so pour me in and drink up!.. Seriously though, I'm not trying to fact check, but those are interesting statistics and would like to know where they came from.
I wouldn't say no to knowing where they came from myself.
The... toilet store?
Anchorman always gets a turkey leg.
Click on the link in my post (total QBR). It's all right there.
Also, see my previous post in a previous Logan thread here:
http://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/83791#comment-83791
It talks about QB sabermetrics with links to that explain total QBR.
QBR is a flawed stat, but it at least tries to adjust for opponents and as of now it's all we really have. It really does blow a hole in the idea that Thomas played well against BC except for 3 plays that some have tried to propagate.
I agree. Unlike baseball where stats are a direct result of positive or negative action on the field, stats in football are not very indicative. Furthermore, in football the sample sizes are inherently small, only a limited number of opponents, and players are extremely reliant on their teammates. Nevertheless, it's one of the better ways to look at QB production.
To be honest, I have no basis to judge Leal. I can't remember ever seeing him play. I'm sure he went in some time during a blow out, but just don't remember. And even then He would have been playing conseratively.
So no, can't see him starting. But I still wouldn't mind him getting some substantial playing time if possible, without being in victory formation to see what he is capable of. One main reason is for next year.
In fact, I'm already thinking that Ford may be starting next year just based on the lack of some Leal development this year.
I really hope we can redshirt Ford. I'd rather give him a year to develop/get his life at college together/get used to life in VA instead of PA. We would have been so much better off with a redshirt freshman Tyrod instead of a true freshman Tyrod.
I think that's a real possibility. Leal has a full year in the system. Being a senior and knowing the players he's around should help with his team chemistry. I wouldn't be surprised if Leal won the starting job for reasons other than talent. I think Loeffler likes Leal too and probably knows that giving Ford a year in the system as a red shirt will benefit him and the team as a whole. Next year will still be considered a rebuilding year for our offense. We'll be reloading on defense as well. 2015 should be a good year for us and I personally think 2016 will be a magical season.
I think you mean that's a LEAL possibility
sorry...I always forget about that pun because his name is actually pronounced "LAY-AL" instead of "LEEL" so when I'm thinking it in my head it doesn't jump out at me to use "Leal" in place of "real"
ah... yeah, you're correct, it's a stretch with the correct pronunciation. i actually didn't even consider that. Can we both be right? I'm gonna say yes and turkey leg you back
Works for me!
Seriously... Joe, can we start seeing who down votes things? ridiculous. Or a leader board for down votes as well. Both who has the most and who has down voted the most.
Here is one to balance you out again VPIhokieME
Meh. The down votes don't do much. A lot are probably accidental.
Anything else?
Some pie might be nice.
yeah I really think you should send out a $100 gift to everyone who joins the TKP community. I think it would greatly improve the experience. And while you're at it can you go ahead and include an app on the site that breaks down all the plays for us so we don't need French or Mason anymore? That would be great...
K Thnx
(Joe, I know you're smart enough to know this is sarcasm..but just to cover my arse...THIS IS SARCASM)
Apologies if that came off as demanding. Mostly just want posters who like to downvote for shits and giggles to be out in the open and not anonymous anymore. If you set up that donation button I will put money in for this and in general for TKP. Thanks man
I don't really care about the turkey legs...they're fun but not really worth anything. You have a bunch anyway. I understand that it's the principle more than the legs themselves, but this is the internet. People are going to downvote stuff and we have to live with that. The more we complain about it the more satisfaction downvoters will get out of it. I'm okay with votes being anonymous. Joe posted a thread a while back saying that overall the amount of downvotes is pretty insignificant anyway. Here, have another leg for your troubles.
Go hokies!!
Thanks man. I understand what you mean.
I wasn't searching for extra legs actually. It is the principle for me. This is the only place I spend time online as part of a community where I post things (also on the rare one or twice a season case on other VT fan sites). I generally avoid online communities because of the negative posts all the time that take over the discussion. Like most everyone else I just want to come on here talk football, have good honest debates whether agree or disagree and laugh a bit. The idea of the turkey leg was genius in that we can see what other fans agree on, so while number of legs (for some like Guitarman at +7000) is impressive its more about watching the trend of what Hokies like. I think this is where traditions are born from and TKP community can influence or spawn future traditions. I enjoy that tremendously. Perhaps because I am more detached for Blacksburg and Hokie football than most others, so that could just be me.
I don't enjoy people flaming or down voting just because it's the internet and they can be anonymous. It takes away from one of the aspects I enjoy most about TKP. I would be happy for people to see my down votes, there hasn't been many, and I haven't really been down voted much myself either. Anyway, that's just me.
So last night I was thinking that 2016 would be a "magical" season. Bristol, experienced QB and offense. Some serious seniors on D and more.
Makes my nips hard just thinking about it.
Lost my shit at that last part
Only downside is that it's very likely that Facyson and Fuller leave after their junior years.
I'm not so sure. Facyson wants to be a heart surgeon, so staying in school for as long as he can and maybe even getting multiple degrees would be a solid idea. The kid seems incredibly smart, so the educational aspect here probably weighs heavily for him. If Kendall left early, he would be the first Fuller to do so. Too many variables to predict, but he might stay unless he's absolutely tearing it up in his Jr year (which is entirely possible, and even likely). I'm hoping family tradition holds once again and the Final Fuller stays for his full 4 years. The possibility of what might happen in 2016 could be enough to hang on to these guys. The Battle in Bristol comes but once in a lifetime!
Don't say final. Surely Vince is ready to have a kid or 22 soon.
Excellent point. How about "Final-For-Now Fuller?"
I am willing to accept this.
We are on Fuller 1.4.....awaiting second generation Fullers: (Vinnie build) 2.1.1, 2.1.2, (Cory build) 2.2.1, 2.2.2, (Kyle build) 2.3.1, 2.3.2, (Kendall build) 2.4.1, 2.4.2, etc. And if the flowers that someone on TKP sent to mama Fuller work, who knows, perhaps another first-gen Fuller?
Wait ... What if every Fuller has 4 sons who each have 4 sons and so on ...
Why stop at 4? Let's get as many of these fellas as possible.
Should we set up Fuller Sr. with a lifetime supply of Viagra?
I'm not sure why anyone paid any attention to any start Leal discussion. It was just emotional, unsophisticated, knee jerk analysis. Not worth a response, not now, not after a Duke, not after BC.
To be fair, I don't think the Leal lovers are active on the site this week.
This is true. I have been on the lookout for two in particular and they seem to have mysteriously vanished. I, for the record, have an alibi. I was watching the game as the Hokies reached for and promoted excellence
I just want to say it again. I lost faith in Logan last week. I called for him to see decreased playing time. I didn't think he should lose his starting spot, but maybe if he starts turning it over at an excessive pace again then to maybe sit down for a series or two. But regardless of what I meant Logan just proved me completely wrong. He just bitch slapped me, and I couldn't be happier. I don't know him personally but everyone says he is a great person and it is obviously he works his tail off for everyone and everything. I am so happy for him and I hope he can at least play half as well as he did the other night consistently and I like our chances in every single game. Someone somewhere on this site said it if we can just score 4 TDs a game we win. Logan plays like that we could win everything!
To put it simply, no.
I never bought into the Leal over Thomas theories and it didn't take Saturday's performance to make me think that. Logan has shown the ability he has at times and he has also shown the struggles he can go through but that is something that has just come with where we are at. It would take something catastrophic to happen for me to honestly believe anybody else is better for us at the quarterback position than LT3.
It depends on what you want. Do you want a quarterback who can be absolutely great one game (e.g. LT3 last night), but will occasionally have those games where he turns the ball over four times and causes your team to lose to a team they shouldn't?
Or, would you want a QB who is nowhere near as good as the starter when the starter is on, but is consistent (i.e. Mark Leal)?
Personally, I choose the latter. Losing to Duke and Boston College should never, under any circumstances, take the ball away from you four times and beat you. Yes, we would not have won if it weren't for LT3 against Miami, but we would not have lost to Duke and Boston College if it weren't for him. Miami is one win. Yes, it was a big win, but BC and Duke were TWO losses that were pretty significant.
If Logan gets consistent, I will be for him 100%.
I agree, and there are some parallels that can be drawn between Logan Thomas and Michael Vick in that respect. When Vick is on his game, he is unstoppable. However, when he isn't, he's very turnover-prone and can cost the team the game. I think the same thing can be said for Logan Thomas. There are just some days where he doesn't see the field.
With that having been said, my thing has always been to start Logan as long as we aren't mathematically eliminated from the winning the coastal. My reasoning is that Logan Thomas has the physical gifts to give us a chance against FSU. Our offense almost certainly has a higher ceiling with him in the game than without him. If we find out that we're not going to play FSU this year, then I wouldn't mind seeing what Leal can do. Evaluating Leal in real game situations would be priceless to get a better idea of who we should start next year.
The problem with this argument assumes that Leal is consistent... what evidence do you have that even remotely backs up that statement? We have zero idea of what type of production he's capable of during a situation where he has to be "the man." Even though Logan can be maddeningly inconsistent from week to week, we know what he's capable of when he limits his bad decisions and turnovers. Leal is unproven, while Logan is the unquestioned heart & soul of this team. You don't bench your senior team leader for someone who's never taken a meaningful snap in a college football game.
Well, Leal didn't throw 3 interceptions to the 2nd and 3rd string defense during the Spring Game, or at all for that matter. It does seem as if he is capable of being better at consistently making good decisions.
Well, Leal was also 3-8 in that game, and that was, what, 7 months ago?
Leal didn't tear it up in the spring game either.
So I guess that leaves one solution... Connor Jessip.
There's a ton of posts on here (myself included) about the need to be supportive of the team (pertaining to LT3). Shouldn't we be supportive of the WHOLE team including the back up QB?
Sure, I think we all believe he's a good guy and would try his hardest...just like Logan. Except supporting doesn't mean we have to pretend he has the same attributes as Logan, or that if we put him in he would play just as well (or poorly) as Logan.
Including Bryan Stinespring? Or are you still being obtuse about that?
Very acute observation.
And also very right.
Well obviously we want equilateral appreciation for the team.
On that, my friend, we are congruent.
You guys are taking a great angle on this thread
It parallels some of the greatest pun sequences we've had.
At least, to a varying degree
Cosining this
I was specifically trying to go adjacent regarding Leal
I see what you did, but somehow I think we ended up on a tangent.
What was the first sine?
It may have been an imaginary function.
Indeed, quite complex.
I f-king love the isoscelese of this thread and TKP
So long as we understand the magnitude of the situation.
We'd vector consider the direction of this conversation, as well.
Or we combine it all and enter the matrix.
I would say that would determinant.
We shouldn't cross the product of our discussion however
We should definitely keep the conversation as plane as possible.
Agreed. This series of comments has become divergent
Should we take a look at the gradients of the comments?
PS: I fat finger down voted, someone help?
Got it.
you've got an extra v at the end of the url from ctrl+v'ing, I assume
Any Calvin & Hobbs mention, picture, or avatar deserves a turkey leg!
One of the easiest coaching decisions made by F. Beamer: Stick with Logan.
Honestly, FB must shake his head when he gets asked these things at media events.
And it just proves that the majority of sports reporters are about as knowledgable as I am, just with tape recorders.
I think moreso that sports reporters just wanna stir shit up. That's why they ask stupid questions .. like asking Logan if he's worried about losing his starting position ..
I think what's obvious is that, although incosistent, Thomas is great QB. The difference was the run game alleviated the pressure from him to do everything. He played within his capabilities because we were able to be balanced. Could Leal have done it? I'm sure he's also a good QB, but it doesn't mean that we needed to bench Thomas for the year!
Should Thomas be benched? No. The offense is literally designed around his running abilities and it is too late in the season to shake it up and put in Leal. Should the Thomas supporters be saying I told you so? No. Thomas issue is consistency. One game does not make him consistent or inconsistent. Saying that, I hope every game the rest of this season is just like the U game. But he has been Jekyll and Hyde.
The one thing I did see in this game, which has been lacking in the past, is REALISM when making on field decisions. He actually threw the ball away! And he went down or went out of bounds on multiple occasions after he made enough yards on a run or scramble. No more hero syndrome. THAT is a sign of maturity. Let us trust it continues.
The people that wanted Leal to start don't come on TKP after wins, only after losses so they can bitch about how the quarterback who holds all the school records and just did something that no other QB under Beamer has done (two consecutive 300+ yd games) is the worst QB ever
Not necessarily. See the comment directly above yours.
Ok, maybe my comment was a bit wide sweeping. The people who say that Logan sucks and is the worst qb ever (completely unproductive commentary) are the people who I was referring to that only come on here after losses. I am all for constructive criticism and observation, and the tone of the comments after wins is much more positive/constructive
Fair enough, but that last sentence made me chuckle. Fun fact: posters are human.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz....wha! Sorry.
I'll bite, but only because it's Mason who asked.
Leal starting was never the issue, I don't think. Leal getting time after Logan committing many turnovers was the issue. Thomas has always been the better player, athlete, leader (as far as we can tell, since Leal doesn't get time). But one some days, even with Logan, it just isn't working. If one of those days happens, might as well pull out all the stops.
This was my opinion as well. I was never for Leal taking over the reigns and leading us to the promise land because he was so good. Just to relieve Logan when he plays really poorly.
Logan usually telegraphs how hes going to play very early on in the game.
He didn't on Saturday. He wasn't particularly on-target early in the game, but started to absolutely dominate about halfway through the first quarter. After one post route to Stanford that was broken up, I don't think he threw another bad ball.
I agree with this post. I just want to see what Leal can do. A decent amount of comments are that LT3 gives us the best chance at winning, but I don't know how true that is because I've never seen Leal take a meaningful snap. I get that it's tough to yank LT3 and all, especially since the losses were close and that any minute LT3 can do something special, but I just wanted to see what Leal could do. Maybe he is super accurate, anticipates open receivers well, and can read the DE/OLB on a read option. Maybe he can't do any of that - I would have liked to have seen though.
I don't hate LT3. He's got a ton of great characteristics, physically and mentally. I'm happy for him and the team that he balled out on MIA. He can just be so awful at times and if that happens again, I want to see what Leal can do. We're not going to Pasadena, so what's the harm in throwing him in for a series or two in the second quarter?
So, VT should give up on it's goal to win the ACC and go to the Orange Bowl? Are you also assuming that VT will have a better chance at the MNC in a rebuilding year with 5 of the front 7 on D graduating? I see a lot of harm of throwing Leal in the game. If the coaches were to give up on the team, I would find that disrespectful to the current SR class. And what's the point of goals, if you're just going to quit. Yes, Leal will need to get ready for 2014. That's the purpose of spring practice.
putting Leal in for a series or two in the second quarter doesn't guarantee that VT is giving up it's goal to win the ACC, or the team. If LT3 is cold/awful, let's see what Leal can do.
We can see what Leal can do next season. This is LT3's time. Deal with it. And I am not sure how you can even
make this statement after the Miami game. Seriously.
Go ahead and take my turkey legs. I honestly don't give a crap.
Back up to even. Seriously!
for the record, i didnt downvote you. LT3 played great in MIA, no doubt about it and I'm happy for all involved. Realistically it's probably too late to do anything, but I'd still like to (would have liked to) see what Leal can do. My biggest gripe is when people say LT3 gives us the best chance of winning, but I don't know how to come to that conclusion without seeing the alternative option(s) in a live game situation.
And this isn't your job...that's the coaches who see him day in, day out in practice. Either trust the coaches or don't, but that's why they're hired.
But that's a conjectural argument-(and this is the place to have such a discussion.)
It's akin to 'did the dinosaurs die from climate change?' or 'would I have been more successful if my momma hadn't dropped me on my head?'
I agree that the ONLY way to know is to put Leal in and see how he does....
But it ain't gonna happen, (barring injury), because the coaches can't deal with hypotheticals, its all about real world.
So at some level, I have to consider that either the coaches are making the best decision given the options, or they are idiots....I choose the former, others the latter, hence the spirited discussion.
I believe if our coaches thought that Leal gave us more opportunity to win then he would be starting. So he's
obviously not the better QB. Our coaches see everything...we only see the games. Next season we will have
all new options. Can't wait to see who wins! But until then LT is our man.
I would like to point out that no matter the situation for QB in Blacksburg, it is no where near as bad as that in Green Bay. Johnny Mox tweeted them asking if he needed to suit up!
Bench Logan and Leal - BRING ON THE MOX!!
Hey everyone, it's my first post on TKP.
Not sure if this is a novel idea to the site, but I've always been of the mindset that Leal could lead us to an equal or better record IF, and only IF, LT had a full off-season of working at tight end. Crazy thought, I know, and obviously that ship has sailed since LT doesn't have another off-season at VT, but hear me out:
1. LT's size and athleticism had him rated as the top TE prospect in high school and some NFL scouts still see him as such. He could have been to be a major receiving threat and safety blanket for Leal. He would create obvious mismatches and be a major consideration in game-planning/personnel for opposing DC's
2. It's clear LT is as tough as they come, so I have no doubt he could get it done in the trenches and be a huge piece in run blocking schemes. He would have no doubt made our running game better with strength at the point of attack on the LOS and his athleticism to get to the next level.
3. He would still be a present leader in the huddle, and you wouldn't have to take him off of the field because of his versatility.
4. Leal has enough athleticism (although probably not the durability) to run the veer and option reads, as well as compensate for poor pass protection. And, he CAN'T be worse than LT at going through a progression or decision making.
All that said, I think it's right to stick with LT at this point, regardless of the fact he gives us the chance to lose (and win) EVERY game. It's just hard for me to believe that Leal would be inconsistent enough lose to Duke and BC with 8 turnovers then turn in a player of the week performance against Miami.
Welcome DubDub! Turkey Leg to you for first post
Indeed! Well in, dubdub, on your first post, especially with levelheadedness in the face of a discussion that mutated its own tail and has runnoft.
I know this is a little premature but everyone is talking about Leal, Ford or Motley winning the job next year, but what about Bucky?
There have been some places talking about starting Bucky Hodges. I don't know. Whoever wins the starting position is basically stalling for time until Ford has been on campus for a year. I think this means that Leal makes the most sense. He's going to be a senior. What is there to lose starting him? He's already the second stringer (I assume this means he's our next best quarterback).
Recent discussions support Bucky moving to TE to complete the circle. LOL
I would just like to see leal probably start the season and slowly work Hodges or Ford in and then maybe halfway into the year one of them take over the starting job, or if neither looks great then Leal keeps the job and wait for the other guys to improve the year after
My starting QB in my college fantasy league (Derek Carr) is on a bye. I'm going up against the best team. The QB with the most points available on waivers is...welp...Logan Thomas. You and me, Logan. Play well and all past sins are forgiven. Blow this for me and you're dead to me.
The superstitious nincompoop in me would like to point out that if YOU cause LT3 to play poorly by picking him up (cause that makes sense), you'll be dead to me. So... yeah.