Looks like Fuente landed in the top spot on College Football News' Hot Seat list:
https://collegefootballnews.com/2019/09/hot-seat-coach-rankings-after-we...
While I doubt he will get canned this year because of the buyout, a few more nationally embarrassing losses and that may change. If he stays he's got to clean house, except maybe Burden, Hamilton and Kill. Just hurts we've fallen so far so fast.
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Everyone keeps saying he won't get canned this year because of his buyout. The hurdle of that buyout got significantly lower after Friday. Without change it will become a non-issue. We can't expect to be able to bring in a new staff for a coach that is likely fired in the next 2 years.
So I get that the buyout is expensive. But if we were to fire him after next season, it only makes 2.5 million difference. Does 2.5 million really matter, when you are going to lose all of your fan-base? Seems like there is already an attrition, and if it continues for one more year, that 2.5 million is going to be very costly in terms of getting donations/season tickets etc.
On top of that the buyout if paid over the remainder of his contract term. So the 2.5m only equates to $500k/yr (may not even be that as the term reduces when the buyout does on Dec, also is reduced by any earning he may make being hired elsewhere). Point being is reduction in buyout will not be major factor. It's can we afford any buyout or lump sum.
I think if he's getting canned, there will be a negotiation of that amount. Probably a larger lump but smaller overall amount.
He's torpedoing his future career options, maybe he'll take a smaller buyout to avoid making it even worse?
Could be wishful thinking, I can see how he'd just want to hold out for the full $15M.
Great point about the price difference. I hadn't looked at the change and assumed it would be larger. If attendance takes a major drop off, and I suspect it will, that would likely accelerate things as well.
First off, I imagine the buyout would be negotiated to be paid over several years and not one lump sum. Second, Whit has to consider the long-term costs to the program of hanging on to a coach who isn't cutting it versus the short term pain of the buyout.
Third and also importantly, this is literally the perfect time to hit the reset button with Bud leaving. No good coordinators are going to come work with Fuente when his seat is on fire. Plus how much faith could anyone have in him at this point to even make the right hires? The time is ripe to start over.
Getting clowned by Duke at home and having the team quit on national TV will get you on the hotseat. Not surprised.
His buyout only drops by $2.5m from this year to next. If we're canning him, do it now. Put the ticket sales and other in-game revenue risks into the mix and 'no time like the present' rings especially true, regardless it it is $15m - just file it under "the costs of doing business."
How does that help? I'm not arguing, I'm just wondering what you feel it would accomplish.
Maybe the next guy can be competitive against Duke. You never know.
No, I mean how would it help doing it today instead of waiting until the end of the season?
We have a DC who is checking out already. How does it help not to have a head coach?
They won't- and shouldn't before the end of the year, and I doubt they do it then.
We could redshirt our good players and begin a more formal coaching search, ahead of other inevitable firings.
That said, we should wait until the end of the year to fire a HC. Right after the UVA game is fine with me.
If it keeps going the way it's going, I say leave him on the tarma- dont let him on the bus.
I don't know that he was saying to do it now. I certainly wouldn't think that's a good move. I think his "now" was end of season. The only thing you gain firing a HC mid season is a little more time to openly look at the next option. With how Fuente's staff is structured you'd lose the whole staff firing him mid season.
It would avoid further erosion of the fanbase.
Give you more time to survey through candidates.
Both of which are good things.
If you spot mold on a loaf of bread, do you throw it away immediately or wait til the entire thing turns into a ball of green, furry, spores? The bread is VT...the mold is Fuente.
This is big. If you can Fu before year's end, it'll show the fans that the AD will not tolerate this level of play. I think firing Corn this week or next would go a long way in showing there's a commitment to improvement that is otherwise not visible to a majority of the fanbase. I know no one expects to beat Miami now, but if we lose by 50 on national TV after getting our dicks pushed in at home by dook, also on national TV, expect the attendance at the URI game to be south of 35k. If that doesn't inspire Whit to do something, we might as well start preparing a funeral for the football program come late November.
I think that is the only thing remotely possible during the season. Fire or demote Corn and have Kill call the plays or something. other than that, Whit won't force anything before the end of the year.
I'm okay with waiting until the season - I think it just needs to happen all at once, otherwise you're bringing in a DC that may not be retained if we wait and Fuente ends up getting let go after the 2020 season.
This. If Fuente is going to be a lame duck in 2020, he has to go at the end of the season. There is no use in hiring a DC for one season. Plus it will set back recruiting even further
Pushed*
Exactly. Dropping $2.5M when we're going to be bleeding donations, gate, and re-seating for the remaining games this year and next doesn't make financial sense. If anything, we'll likely see a spike of donations with a new coach, too. $3M a year is the number we should be considering. This year or kicking the can down the road one more shouldn't impact the (financial side of the) overall decision too much.
Would rather have patience and live through another 6-6 season and win next year than have the program throw out 15 million prematurely to hire someone else that's equally or more so unproven
At this point, how can we get to 6-6? There is risk all around - at this point, having the possibility of 3 straight seasons of mediocrity / under-performance if we retain him through next year would hurt the program long term than sending Fuente packing with a $15m buyout after the season.
This...100%....show me a path to 6-6....3-9 looks vastly more likely.
With the EASIEST schedule in P5. Its pitiful.
6-6 keeps us out of the postseason, with 2 FCS opponents on this EASY schedule.
Y'all keep saying this schedule is so easy, "easiest in P5". You do realize they make those ratings in the preseason? I see at Miami, ranked Wake, at ranked UVA, at ranked Notre Dame, a much improved UNC, good Duke team, very tough Pitt squad that hung with Penn State and beat UCF. Where exactly are all the "easy" games. ODU, Furman, GT? Rhode Island sure but they shouldn't even be on the schedule, that game is useless. BC maybe but they've clearly been decent outside the Kansas game. Expecting to win all of those games with the current roster is unreasonable but stealing 2 or 3 to get to 7-5/6-6 is not.
This is almost a compelling argument until you realize that the ACC is the worst conference in the p5 and that the coastal, specifically, is the worst division in the FBS. Our schedule is insanely easy. And sadly, because we are such a mess, every team in the division has a pretty easy schedule too.
It's a bad division but have you heard of the Big 10 West? Also take Clemson out of the Atlantic or Georgia out of the SEC East there's a good argument the coastal is better than the remaining teams. All of these remaining games will be tough and would be tough for most teams out there.
Agreed. The "easiest" schedule is such a joke. None of these conference wins were going to come easy.
That being said,
We go out and are 2-2 with some crazy trick plays by Duke just to get a win and a tough loss to BC in Chestnut Hill is different than...just looking completely lost and over matched in those two losses.
I honestly thought last year was a major fluke and we'd come out with a huge improvement on defense and at the very least a middle of the road offense.
Where do you see 4 more wins with the way this team has performed? Also if you're concerned about the bowl streak we have to go 7-5 to qualify because we play two FCS schools.
TO be hypertechnical-I think we COULD go 6-6 and still go BUT that would require that one of our other losses was to Rhode Island (not exactly desirable!) and we win 4 more other games against FBS teams(certainly no gimme) -that would leave us with 5 FBS wins +1 FCS win against 5 FBS losses and one FCS loss. (presuming that ODU met the 90% rule below in the last two years rolling period-see below from 2019-20 handbook)-that said I'm not sure if we should want to -or for that matter if any bowl would want us in that scenario.
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/football/d1/PBA/20...
From the NCAA Bowl Handbook-pg 8
Eligible Teams
An eligible team is defined as one that has won a number of games against Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS)
opponents that is equal to or greater than the number of its overall losses (e.g., a record of 6-6, or better). Tie or
forfeited games do not count in determining won-lost record.
Exception – FCS Opponent
Each year, a FBS institution may count one victory against a Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) opponent
that has averaged 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in football during a
rolling two-year period. However, The Football Oversight Committee may approve a waiver of the 90 percent
requirement to permit a FBS institution to count a victory against a FCS opponent toward meeting the definition
of a "deserving team," if a unique or catastrophic situation affects the FCS institution's ability to average 90
percent of the permissible maximum number of football grants-in-aid per year during a rolling two-year period
I love this post so much, because if it comes to fruition we will have gotten bowl eligible by scheduling Marshall one year and then a technicality with a loss to Rhode Island the next, and at that point we could all just laugh instead of cry.
ODU is FBS. Furman and Rhode Island are FCS.
Is the number still $15 mil next year? Its been stated before, but what is the benefit of keeping him for the next season or two? How much would we save? Would the athletic department really be better off saving a few million in holding on to him, especially if they lost potential donors in the Drive for 25 campaign? Further, would the athletic department really be better off if loads of people stopped attending games over the next season or two?
Serious questions here for those in the know.
It's probably really stupid, but I did have intentions on donating to the Drive for 25. Then Duke happened, and it's the first game in recent memory that I've turned off and i did so in the 3rd quarter. I sat all the way through every game I attended, aside from the kneel downs of JMU. I've watched almost every play since I became a Hokie in 2009. This was legitimately so disheartening that I decided to hang on to the money I would've have donated to the Hokie Club. It wouldn't have been program changing, but it would've been what I could've given.
It made me donate more. Wish there was a "Fuente buyout" option in the drop down.
I just watched the post game presser. Fuente is just so muted with his attitude towards all of this. Surely he shows more fire and emotion with the players and staff, but I begin to wonder. Part of the job is going to press appearances, and helping control and dictate the media impression of the team. He is failing miserable at this part of his job. Bud sounded like a head coach in that post-game presser and Fuente did not.
Meanwhile, this HC (Fat, Dumb, Happy, and Entitled) has a hot take on his team's performance. Fuente needs to land somewhere in the middle of where he is now and where Leach is.
when is the last time a buyout price stopped a school from cutting a guy loose? lol
I honestly feel like a few heads rolling will get the fans back to support the kids. Most of everyone's frustration in the stands was directed at the coaching staff and the terrible play calling. I know that if changes were made, I would stay for every second of every game to support those kids through a coaching transition. Right now, people are leaving in droves and booing in order to express their dissatisfaction with the coaching. Make the correct moves and many of those fans will not feel the need to protest.
My brother (a student) has heard rumbles of a game boycott
PLEASE do not do this. The players deserve better. If anything, pack the house with loads of Fire Fuente stuff. We need the revenue now more than ever...
I assume this was a generalized statement, not actually tell me not to. I'm a season ticket holder and as shitty as this year has been, I will drag myself to every game to support our players and our school.
However, a student boycott (keep in mind this will equate to very little loss of revenue, they are either lottery tickets or student season tickets that they've already paid for) may be just the kind of sign to show the administration that we are not satisfied with their actions and performance and demand change. VT athletics is a business, and to get the change we desire we have to treat them like a business and threaten their revenue stream.
Agreed. Player's deserve the fan and student support. I don't ever want to be like those UVA fair weather pathetic fans. I watched the entire miserable UNC game right until the gun. Give me those tickets if people don't want them. I want to be there through the bad times.
I am all for venting, bitching, hell people can write letters or try to call Whit directly, but if we become a game boycott school, fuck that shit.
That's call Maryland. Don't be Maryland.
Let's pull a WVU-at-the-end-of-the-Nehlen-era stunt and fly a plane over the stadium that says "fire Fuente."
Disclaimer: this is /s. Don't do that.
We could use Skipper and put a flag in it that pops out that says "Fire Fuente"
SERIAL KILLER!!
It's like we've been watching Tennessee from the sidelines and go...."hmmm that looks fun"
Next up, once a new Coach is announced we will have a twitter rant and burn the program down because he wasn't some pie in the Sky our guy hire and we'll somehow end up with Jeremy Pruitt....
We will give him 3 weeks to make changes and then the first touchdown allowed we will throw up our hands and call for his firing...
At the same time, I really don't blame students for not wanting to go to games...I went to like 2 basketball games when I was there.
Agree. Just think there is not wanting to go to games, and totally cool with that. If you don't like the product, don't go. But an organized boycott at this stage would seriously add to the long term damage we are already facing. At least give Whit a chance.
There are also 85 of your fellow students out there playing. Imagine sitting down in class next to a fellow Hokie that tore his ACL or whatever in a game, then thinking "really got you good, boycotted your game this week to send a message to an AD that already knows he is in a dumpster fire situation."
I think that we put athletes on a pedestal. I get that it sucks if anyone blows their acl, but I don't see why I should feel any worse for a football player than Timmy in Econ. And also, they have this exposure and opportunity because of our fandom. The relationship is mutually beneficial and both of us need to hold up our end of the agreement.
Wish I could give this two legs. As much as I love VT and we have had our bright spots, look at the struggles some blue blood programs have had during rebuild phases. In the last 20 years we've seen the decline of major programs and only a few have climbed back. Texas, Tennessee, FSU, Miami, USC, Nebraska - all these programs have a bigger history than our beloved VT. Look how long ND was down, Alabama was a non-entity for years before Saban.
We just got beat by a coach because he had years to build the program. I'm not making excuses for Fuente - I thought it would be much better this year (8-10 wins), and very competitive next year (10+ wins), but we just can't sustain coaching turnovers.
What I think we as fans fear most is becoming irrelevant. I'm sure everyone on this board heard at least once during the last 25 year, "VT is only good because of Beamer. Once he is gone, VT will be nothing." I heard it on multiple occasions, and I refused to believe it then, even as I refuse to believe it now.
Something is broken with the program. The preseason articles suggested as much with titles like "In 2019 Virginia Tech could either break through or fall apart." Looks like we have seen the latter, and more challenging games await. However, firing anyone without a known improvement waiting in the wings doesn't do any good for the program or for the kids. Once we start down that road, where does it end? Do we give every coach 4 years to return us to a perennial top 15 program? If we were 3-1 and sniffing around the top 25 would that be enough right now? We complained even when we had the nation's longest streak of 10-win seasons! "Why can't we win the one's that matter?" "Why do we always seem to lose one unexpected game?"
I just want VT football to be exciting again. Give me hope.
Go Hokies!
I don't disagree with most of what you're saying here. I don't want to have to fire a new coach after 4 years. If we were still a middling 6-win team that seemed to be in the midst of a transition, I'd probably be on the Fuente defense team.
The problem is we are getting exponentially *worse*. We are a terrible program. We can't recruit, we can't develop talent, we scare absolutely no one, and the coach looks to be at a loss on what to do next. IMO that's not a "weather the storm" scenario. With Bud leaving at the end of the year, it makes sense to completely clean house (and I mean the entire program).
I hear you loud and clear, and frankly I am on the fence with this. I go back and forth with the Fire Fuente Movement for those same very reasons.
Is it possible that the rebuild which would typically take place in the first 1-2 years is happening during 3-4 because Foster stuck around? Was he the glue that kept the normal defectors in place?
I'd love to have heard something from Fuente post-beatdown to suggest that he has a game plan, but what would that speech sound like? What could a 4th year coach say, that would make sense, after the worst home defeat since the 70's? Recruiting hasn't been stellar, but hasn't it been around # 25 with the exception of the yet-TBD 2020 class?
I dunno man, if Fuente is released and replaced with someone better, I'm cool with that. If he stays and turns the program around for the next decade, I'm cool with that too. It's hard to replace a legend. Fortunately Whit gets paid to make these decisions, I'm glad I'm not the one.
Rhode Island makes sense.
It doesn't matter how many hot seat lists are written. It's up to Whit Babcock and I am still very skeptical that he actually fires Fuente. The buy out is extremely high. I am also not understanding the love for Zohn Burden. I don't think he is knocking it out of the park with the running backs and recruiting tbh.
The buyout doesn't drop all that much next year. Whit's gonna have to eat a ton of money either way, and it makes no sense to stick with a lame duck coach that's going to erode the program further.
I agree on the running backs role. I think he did better as receivers coach. But he is one of the few we have that are at least capable recruiters.
The athletic department needs to do everything in their power to make this buyout work. I don't know what that entails other than calling meetings with donors, but we need to be thinking long term. If Fuente isn't fired, our football team's demise continues with the added bonus of no one wanting to show up to games, hurting the athletic department anyway. If we fire him, we probably don't get any better, and maybe the demise continues for the remainder of the season, but that would almost certainly be a situation where Bud is promoted to interim head coach for the remainder of the season which might spark an interest in the fan base. The basketball team probably won't generate the revenue this season that they did last season, so it was important for the football team to be as advertised. They have not been. We are in serious trouble as an athletic department, not just football program, if we keep up with Fuente.
I would be in support of this provided that Whit makes it clear that whoever is still around (don't know how the offensive side would shake out) has the understanding the Bud gets full say in everything. The guy has earned it and it should be respected. Then late in the season (hopefully) find a good replacement HC and let them rebuild the staff
We are at a critical stage right now... With apathy setting in and depth getting worse. We don't have a lot of time to get this right.
Man, it's going to be FASCINATING to see the size of the home crowd for the Rhode Island game. Especially assuming we get worked again this weekend.
In Tech football past, this is the game we would show up for and win for some reason after let downs the weeks before. 2003 we get embarrassed at WVU and then beat #2 Miami the next week. 2006 get embarrassed by BC and GT and 2 weeks later we beat #10 Clemson. 2013 we lose to Duke and BC back to back but then beat #11 Miami at Miami. 2014 we lose 3 straight to Pitt, Miami, BC and then beat #19 Duke. Tech football has always been the best at letting me down, then giving me a little hope, and then letting me down ever more.
For some reason this gives me some hope that we'll at least show up this week. There's one big difference between those teams and this team though.
I don't necessarily mean the team but the crowd/attendance size. Could see no one showing up (i.e., I was planning on going to the game but cancelled those plans after the Duke fiasco).
Yea i was really responding to the part where you mentioned getting worked again this weekend against Miami. I'm trying to talk myself out of that same mindset. It used to be easier to do it.
The 2019 Miami Hurricanes are average at best- 7-5 type team when it is said and done. Having said that, our offense will struggle big time against their speed on defense, and our defense is not very good at all. 14 point loss or so.
someone close to the program informed me this morning that key donors have contacted Whit and told him not to worry about the buyout and that if he feels Fuente should go, they will foot the bill. Not sure if they said it this nicely, but that's how it was relayed to me. #sauces
Donors pls
Whit pls
I have heard similar rumblings.
Note: I don't usually post the rumblings I hear unless they directly support or contradict something else I read here. As the link between me and the sauce likes to exaggerate things.
#subtlebrag
I'm hearing similar rumblings from my people
/unzips pants
Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner of the thread.
Whose pants?
We went so many years with Beamer as the steady guy running the program (making less than he probably deserved at times), so we honestly should be able to come up with enough funds here to not have this kill us. It's not like this is our 3rd coach in a row we need to buyout.
Hmmm, need to check with my sources
I mean I know 15mil is still a TON of money.
But the dollars are out there, remember just 2 years ago that couple(who i think is still anonymous?) paid that same amount to fund the Merryman renovations/expansion!
So Coaches who go through this phases usually have an understanding that something needs to change, meaning the staff. Will Fuente make changes on the staff? That is the key to everything Buyout or not, head coaches who refuse to acknowledge staff issues, linkage to Alumni and general lack of access to media/team are going to suffer in the long run.
I would say if they don't get rid of him, at least he should try to look for changes within the staff. Otherwise this thing is not going to be a long season, its going to be a long 3 seasons
I know one thing, if I got an email today that read "Help Whit fund the Justin Fuente buyout by donating today" I'd give without thinking twice.
I suspect I wouldn't be the only one.
*stops work on a Nigerian Prince email*
*starts work on a Justin Fuente Buyout email*
Need I remind anyone, that we had NO players drafted this past spring? We likely will see the same thing, this upcoming draft.
How will that help us, as a program? We all know that recruits by and large, hope to make it to the next level. They want coaching that will set them up for success.
Dragging this out further, only does more damage. If Fuente is incapable/unwilling to make the corrections needed, then he must go.
Yeah Fuente isn't recruiting at a level worth keeping him over. That is, unless you think that Dead Fn Last in the Power 5 is acceptable for Virginia Tech.
None of Fuente's guys are eligible to get drafted until this year and even then they'll have to leave early
Yes, that is what is stopping them from being drafted........
I mean not being eligible and sophomores or lower? Kinda yeah
If Fuente gets canned and Bud is promoted to Head Coach, does that make him eligible for the College Football Hall of Fame?
For that reason alone, I say do it!
/s (slightly)
Do it for loluva!!!
Only undefeated coach ever to be inducted.
I believe you have to be a head coach for a minimum of 10 years.
Three things I would love to hear, just because:
1. Frank's unvarnished opinion of things.
2. Bud's unvarnished opinion of things.
3. Jerry Kill's after action report from the Duke debacle.
Here's vid of #3.
Probably get 3 of these faces :
3)
So does Fuente scare us off the up and coming G5 hire? Do we go with the other option of P5 OC with no HC experience? Or the third option of experienced but failed P5 HC like Richt a couple years ago
I'd hire a P5 coordinator that is known as a strong recruiter, or as a recruiter that gets guys to follow his vision.
Having a VISION for the team would be nice too. I want someone to turn us into Wisconsin. A team that punches you in the mouth on both sides of the ball.
I know it would be a HUGE reach, and I know that very few people would be excited about it, but I'm telling you guys, Mike Houston is going to be a big time football coach. I was around him a lot at JMU, and that guy knows how to recruit and develop talent, he knows how to run a program, and he knows how to win. And most importantly he is a culture builder.
This carousel does not have a lot of great options. I think Houston is a high ceiling but also low floor pick. I would support it, but the "the current G5 staff is in over their heads" crowd likely wouldn't.
Heupel is a G5 coach I'd take a chance on but the list is pretty short, rather go p5 assistant