With three losess in conference to Duke, BC and Maryland and with a toss up with UVA( can't believe I typed that). If that really happens how do we not see changes in either coaches or game philosophy? I understand this was a rebuilding year but ever lose even Bama was at some point in that game winnable.
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Okay, I'm fed up. Stop it. CHANGES HAVE HAPPENED. THEY HAPPENED RIGHT BEFORE THIS YEAR. THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR OF A NEW OFFENSIVE COACHING STAFF. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE FANTASTIC RIGHT OFF THE BAT. GET USED TO IT.
/Rant over. I'm sorry.
don't apologize
Is Loeffler going to magically become a decent play caller between seasons?
Tempted to downvote for Negative Nancy-ness and ignorance.
When he can install the system he wants to run with the players he wants to run it, I have a feeling things will look very different. It's idiotic to run a system you want regardless of whether the players you have can actually run it. What we're seeing this year is a coach trying to adjust to the skill set of players recruited and coached by a previous regime.
I think it's a little unfair to crucify Loeffler at this point. He doesn't have much to work with. If our offense is still this bad in 3 years then I'll be all for calling for changes but right now it's not fair to him. He's had very limited time to work with a pretty joe-shmo offense. Out of all of the new coaches across the country I think it can be argued that Loeffler came into the worst situation from a talent and fundamentals standpoint. I think that he's got the offense generally trending in the right direction, but there are going to be hiccups along the way. That has to be expected. This is a rebuilding year and this loss hurts like hell but it's certainly not the end of the world. Loeffler isn't chad morris or gus malzhan but he seems to be more competent than O'cain and Stinespring. He's already recruited better players than we've had in a long time. I think we should give him more time before throwing him under the bus.
From my point of view looking at what situation Lefty came into from the previous staff he has exceeded expectations I had for the offense. When everything clicks its absolutely beautiful to watch -Miami, and 1st half vs UNC. When the young players make mental mistakes and Logan is asked to do to much it looks something similar to a dumpster fire -3 ACC losses. The rest of the time its just play smart and dont turn the ball over and let the Defense do there thing -Marshall (although that was closer to the before mentioned dumpster fire), ECU, GT, PITT.
So hypothetically how would you have called plays differently? I'll hang up and listen.
I would run decent run plays. On 3rd and 1 I wouldn't run stretch plays that take 5 seconds to develop therefore losing the advantage of having 1 yard to go. I wouldn't do read options when it's clear this team isn't capable, how many times have we seen Logan do the read option with an invisible player and have to run straight into the line to try to get back to the line of scrimmage?
I do appreciate you answering my question actually. I will say that a handful of 3rd down calls have been questionable at best, but outside of this I am a fan of what Lefty is trying to run. The lack of an established run game this year has made it very difficult and Lefty has done a good job of maximizing what little talent he has through the play calling.
I think we make way too many presnap motions, and take way too long to get the snap off - Line up, adjust if you need to, and RUN THE DAMN PLAY. All this presnap motion crap just gets the offense out of sync, and the defense time to react.
I'm pretty sure it does the exact opposite. Despite the motion, the offense knows exactly what they're about to do. The motion just adds more complexity for the defenders to analyze react to. It's what a well designed offense does.
It adds complexity, but honestly if every single fan in the stadium knows that trey edmunds is going to motion back to running back and run a read option then im sure the defense also knows.
Ah. But the one time he doesn't...
If you watch the Colts (Pep Hamilton I might add) or the Vikings, both employ this motion strategy from the shotgun. Eventually, we can swing a pass out and maybe not Edmunds, but Coleman/Mangus might break one. The Colts had a game where a defense left a RB WIDE OPEN. Didn't even cover him.
Once you make the pass, a safety or LB has to cover the RB. That pulls them out of run coverage- perfect for a Logan draw. OR, a corner covers the RB and one of our WRs has a LB or safety covering them.
It also allows us to run the read option (IV? I may be wrong) on the jet sweep.
So IMO, it is extremely beneficial from multiple standpoints. I may be explaining it wrong and Mason or French can clean it up - but I don't think this is a problem. JC Coleman on 3rd downs, well yes I kind of agree on.
The truth requires no apology. Yeesh, people.... did you all just completely forget what happened over the offseason?
I merely apologized because that was far more direct and aggressive than my usual responses are. I don't like to do that, typically.
The UVA game is not a toss up. They are bad, really bad. Like ten times worse than Maryland. Could Tech lose? Yes. But I think it would take a breakdown from the defense and the offense turning the ball over a ton (which they are capable of doing.)
I see us being focused like a laser against uva. We didn't win our Senior Game, so we damned sure won't let them win theirs!!!
We should be getting Exum and Ky. Fuller back for loluva right?
Yep.
That makes me feel slightly (only slightly) better.
Thank you. This team knows too damn well what is at stake against UVA. UVA couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag right now.
The University of Maryland basically just waxed our asses (they had us on the ropes until late in the fourth and in OT they threw the haymaker while we stumbled around the mat punching at air).
UVa's defense could clam this offense up in 2 seconds if we don't get our heads on straight. This team can be downright putrid and it seems to me that we show our ugly side a tad too often to walk into any game expecting us to execute.
I'd hardly call that game getting your ass waxed. That would be what FSU is doing to opponent's right now. We had a couple bounces that didn't go our way (see Miami game to see what happens when they do) and we didn't contain CJ on the options and delayed scrambles. I've watched close to half the UVA games so far this year and their offense is even worse than ours and their defense can look great one minute then look like a JV squad the next.
It is a 'rivalry' game and that makes it have the chance to be closer than it should be, but I'd say there will be a lot of Hokie faithful in Lane North and I like our chances of completing the decade of dominance.
Alright, I can go for that. We got handled for pretty much the entire game in every phase of the game. We looked like we were a mere nuisance to a better Maryland team.
I hope we win. I think we have more talent. I've just learned that every VT game this year, you have to wait and see what Virginia Tech is going to come play.
When the Bama game was 0-0 I thought we had a great chance too... All jokes aside I think we're headed in the right direction with better recruiting in the last couple of years, next year could be tough but the following years may be special
The worst part about losing is no longer the fact that we've just lost.
It's fast becoming reading some of the posts that show up here. Like it's cool to jump off the cliff and take the entire team and coaching staff with you.
Stop it. Get some perspective.
I'm not expecting NC or even ACC championships every year BUT losing 5 games or more in a season maybe in back to back seasons shows more than surface issues. Maybe hire a special teams coach, just to name one small change that could help.
We can't just hire more coaches. There's a limit on how many we can have.
We KNOW there are more than surface issues, which is why 5 freshmen currently start on offense. This team was a dumpster fire last year. You don't go from dumpster fire to well-oiled machine in 8 months. Shoot, even Oregon had growing pains in the beginning of the Kelly years.
Well said..and bonus points for the metaphor used when replying to an apparent professional.
No disrespect intended Hokie Fireman.
Lolz.
Confession: Didn't even put that one together. And of course, I have nothing but respect for a fireman.
That said, that gif is absolutely hilarious and perfect for so many things. Such as Gene Chizik as a HC or our offense last year.
Big example of game philosophy today was playing for OT while holding 3 TO's in our pocket.
And 18 seconds with a freshman kicker? No question in the world that was the right call. SO much more can go wrong than right at that point. This isn't Xbox football, prevent defenses are actually fairly hard to beat.
How about using them on defensive stops with over a minute to go.
Because if they convert those third downs, especially around their own 40 or so, we're in a whole world of trouble. If we had gotten a stop earlier, I bet Frank would have called them.
fireman: are you kidding me? :19 seconds to go and we have the ball on our 20 or so yd line and you think 3 timeouts mean shit? TH13 is right .. a lot more probable that something goes very wrong in that scenario than very right. and if we had stopped them earlier .. we might've used the TOs when we were still on D. definitely the right game mgmt at the end of regulation ... and i don't usually defend CFB's game management
I try not to question any of the play calling or anything like that because its still loefflers first year and all and I am completley on board with him, the only I questioning have is some of the personnel that we have on the field, like why do we have 5'7 Jc Coleman running up the middle on 3rd & 1s? Bring in edmunds or try logan up the middle or Coleman around the end, just don't have our smallest guy go up the middle
I'm with you in your frustration, but I think it's partly because we just don't have an Evans, Suggs, Humes, etc.
I know Loeffler and Co. know a bit more about it than I do, and if we can't line it up and get 2 yards with any consistency, then we didn't earn the win.
That doesn't really address his question, and isn't relevant at all. It's not about lack of talent, it's about which personnel you use on a play based on down and situation. We have a 215lb tailback and a 260lb quarterback, and we chose to run a 165lb tailback up the middle on 3rd and 1. I don't care if we have Diggs. You shouldn't be handing off the ball off to him and sending him up the middle on a 3rd and short.
I'll differ with you in that I think it is relevant.
A question about which personnel is used in which situation and why is a great question for Shane, Loeffler and I would love to hear their answer.
But not because I would demand an accounting, but because I would be fascinated to gain insight into their rational.
Again, because a former college player and multi-year coach sure as shootin' knows a whole lot more about it than I do.
That's why I love to read the columnists' analyses on this site. I learn from it.
Simplistically, there are two ways to look at it: The coaches are idiots, or the coaches know a bunch more than I do and it would be interesting to know why they did what they did.
This is actually more of what I expected coming into this year with a new coach and a new system being implemented. Growing pains.
Unless you're tOSU.. (not to discredit what they're doing, but with the kind of recruits that they're pulling, coupled with their S.O.S... it shouldn't be much of a surprise at the success that they're having)
We don't have the talent on offense to win every game and mask mistakes, its that simple. Looking back at how excited everyone was with the running game after beating Miami and putting up decent numbers; we now know that it wasn't offensive improvement, it was just one if the worst defenses in football. Duke piled up 358 total rushing yards on Miami today..so the coaches are not actually trying to lose nor are they trying to make the offense look bad. They are just young, not very deep, and lacking the talent to be more successful.
Duke: Bowl Eligible
BC: Bowl Eligible
MD: Bowl Eligible
So what is your point? While those teams are traditionally (for the most part) not that great, they are pretty decent this year. You can't just go by name alone. If we had lost to Wake or NC State, then we have a huge problem. These teams will most likely finish with a winning record. Btw, 2 of the 3 have something we don't have: a National Championship.
Don't worry about the name on the front of the jersey, worry about how our team plays and the future.
I'll take my chances on down-voting... Please don't use bowl eligible as a synonym for 'any good.' Last year SHOULD have been the end of The Streak, but the NCAA's inability to say 'no' to any town with a stadium, a check, and a dream has as much to do with it as anything else.
If this were 15, 20 years ago, and those losses were all to bowl eligible/played in a bowl teams, then that helps. Now, 35 bowl games. 70 teams get one. That's more than 1/2 of Div-1.
If you disagree, disagree but don't downvote. That's the definition of what we don't do here. Save your downvotes for hateful, insensitive, or disrespectful stuff.
It's cool. I knew going in that comment wouldn't play well with some people. I'm really new to this site, but it strikes me there are lots of 'my Hokies, right or wrong' types here that just don't want to hear the negative side of things, no matter how it's presented, or even if the 'negative' is pretty light. I didn't go after the team itself, I don't feel, but I just can't abide with using 'our loses are to bowl eligible teams' like it's some kind of badge of honor.
Our bowl streak is impressive - in fact, if Florida doesn't make one, we'd be the second-longest active streak now. But for ANY school with a pulse, putting together a decent streak just isn't as hard as it used to be. My freshman year, when dinosaurs walked the Earth (well, hair bands did, anyway), we went 9-2 and stayed home for the holidays. I think there were maybe 15-18 bowl games then.
I think any reasonable well articulated, factually justified opinion is (and very well should be) welcomed here. Most of us pretty much stand behind the team, come hell or high water, which is great, but you're right that some do tend to see things overly optimistically. I've fallen into that trap myself from time to time.
I made the point about our losses being to bowl-eligible teams too, in a different thread, and here's why. I think it is flawed to say that we are losing to bad teams, as was stated elsewhere. All three of our losses are to teams that stand a very good chance of having winning records (and Duke will probably end up with a better one), which in terms of standings puts them within a game or two of us overall. I think that speaks to the high level of parity within the ACC.
I also think there are too many bowls, and that does skew perception a bit. A team with a .500 winning percentage may not merit a bowl game (and I am acutely aware that includes us last year), but I guess it's the norm within the context of the ever-increasingly commercialized realm of college football. It is what it is. I will say, though, that some of those "lower" bowls that are fought out between "lesser" teams tend to be even more interesting than many of the "good" bowls. I'd rather see two mid-majors battle it out in the Little Caesar's Bowl than waste time watching Bama roll a totally overmatched Notre Dame squad. That National Championship game last year was the worst one of them all, in my eyes.
I'm just pissed. I'm pissed because every game has been winnable.
This season has gone exactly like coach Beamer said it would "every game is going to be a grind".
Even coach Foster said something very similar this week.
It is very likely the game against the hoos from hooville will be a grind too, although I am cautiously optimistic that we win.
Are there head scratching play calls? Yes, but when games are won nobody remembers a 3rd and 1 not being converted.
Go Hokies!
Changes ahead hopefully. this was just a bad game (again) with really no turnvovers on us for a change. Special teams bit us in the arse, questionable play calling, late adjustments on D, and poor execution (Coles drop in OT) really resulting in this loss. Another winnable game for sure, yes, but not. I feel really bad for the seniors and the expression from Tariq Edwards after the game really showed. Love my Hokies always and we got to get better.
START LEAL!!!
FIRE FRANK HIRE KIFFIN :-)
LISTEN GUYS THIS SEASON IS OVER. I KNOW I WAS EXCITED AFTER THE WINNING STREAK BUT THEN WE LOST TWO AND I DECIDED WE NEED A CHANGE. WE BEAT MIAMI AND I GOT REALLY EXCITED AND BACKED OUR PROGRAM BUT THEN WE LOST MARYLAND SO I THINK WE NEED A CHANGE. WE SHOULD START LEAL. FIRE LEFTY. HIRE CHAD MORRIS. FIRE BEAMER. MAKE HIM AD. PROMOTE BUD. IS GRUDEN AVAILABLE? WHY AREN'T WE DOING THESE THINGS I HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS TRUST ME. I'LL HANG UP AND LISTEN. I... ACKKKK. BLAHH. UGHH. WHAT'S HAPPEING I FEEL FUNNY I
*POOF*
FUCK
HAHAHAHHAHHAHAH AWESOME!
NO WAY, FUCK YOU GUYS ARE DUMB, WE'RE NOT GETTING OUT OF THIS TAILSPIN UNTIL THEY FIRE FRANK AND HIRE VINCENT FULLER FOR HEAD COACH.
#AnyFuller4Coach
We need a fickle/overreaction fan meme, ASAP! Lol
this is a good idea...I'll work on something
exactly .. holy shit -- this stuff is getting ridiculous. i guess we do live in a world where people expect instant gratification
Not sure we can criticize Loeffler here. Loeffler got cute with play calling in the second half. We can ask what is he doing calling a 30 yard fade pattern on third and one? Passing in short yardage situations? I think Loeffler gave up on the offensive line. He gave up on their ability to run downhill. He tried, they go nowhere. Pass protection was also spotty. So he started looking for quick strikes and was passing in short yardage situations. Loeffler is saying with his play calling: the Maryland defensive line is kicking our butt, so I need to try to win this game with finesse. Nice try, but it did not work.
Y'all are missing the big issue. I've noticed when Lefty is in the booth he often doesn't have a straw in his drink. This means that to get liquid refreshment he has to take his eye of the game for a split second. This causes him to miss important details. If he had a beer hat we would probably be undefeated.
I think you're on to something there.
I think we all can recognize that this change needs to be made ASAP
Does anyone know where to get his address so I can put that as the destination for this amazon order I'm about to make?
Tech's the first team to lose to Maryland, Boston College, and Duke in the same season since a 4-8 UVA team did it in 2010. What's funny is, that's also the year they beat #22 Miami and Mike London started to cry. Tech beat Miami this season as well, but Beamer didn't cry, thank goodness.
Either way, that's not the best company to be in.
Duke was a joke in 2010. Duke's been a joke since BC joined the league. Plus, nobody plays all 3 of these teams every year except for Wake Forest. That's why this doesn't happen often. This statistic is pretty worthless, honestly.
Hasn't happened to Wake in awhile, and they play all three.
It still doesn't tell you a thing - it's just a worthless bit of trivia at best. Change the team names, and you'd just shrug. For example: "You know, historically, not many Big 12 teams lose to Texas Tech, Oklahoma St and Baylor all in the same season. But Oklahoma did it in 2011." <- file that under "totally irrelevant"
And that's how you avoid scurvy.
FIRE THE NEW VIDEO BOARD!