Alright, we did what not many gave us a shot for last night. On to Dayton. Anyone have any insight? Per Jay Bilas last night I know they have a potential lottery pick player.
We're not up on bovada, but on a couple other sites I've seen us anywhere from +2 to -1...so seems like Vegas thinks it's a toss-up
Anyone got any more insight on Dayton?
Edit: So it looks like we'll have our hands full with Obi Toppin, who scored 12 points in his first 4 minutes of play vs. UGA. So far this season, the 6'9" forward is averaging 24 points per game, shooting 72.5% from the field (WTF??) and 50% from 3 point range. On top of that 8.3 rebounds
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Dayton has a player who's gonna be a top 5 pick in next year draft
Obi Toppin.... he is REALLLLLYYY good, probably a lottery pick. Good size at 6'9" 220lbs. Can shoot it from 3, shoot off the dribble, drive to the hoop, good (and quick) feet work, and finishes strong.
He will be a problem for us tonight... be interesting to see MY's strategy against him... Dayton will be a team NO ONE wants to see in the first round.
https://daytonflyers.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/obi-toppin/10161
Toppin had 25 last night. I am very concerned
Edit: sp
In 27 minutes. The game was never close, so Dayton's players will be rested.
Obi is putting up Zion numbers in less time than Zion did.
That said, we just need to play our game. Dayton is a GOOD basketball school and program. A close loss here doesn't hurt us, but another win would be awesome.
They have Anthony Grant as there coach, coaches at VCU.
Our Landers >>>>>>>> Their Landers
Toppin is going to get his, we just need to lock down the supporting cast. The good news is we have what looks like a 10 man rotation who wants to/pride themselves on playing defense.
The one comforting thing about CMY is he always had to game plan, coach, and do more with less. So we know going into the game his X's and O's are going to be on point, but now with better talent to execute.
Lastly, his stare he gives the players without saying anything when they dont hit their spots on defense.....made me want to look away from the TV.
Virginia Tech coach on Dayton: 'Holy smokes, are they a good-looking outfit'
MY is Beamer on the basketball court. He has already provided some great quotes.
Both of these teams rotate 9 men in the game.
Dayton starts G Crutcher (6-1, 30.8 minutes), F Toppin (6-9, 29.3 minutes), G Chatman (6-1, 26 minutes), F Mikesell (6-7, 25.5 minutes) and G Landers (6-5, 22.3 minutes). First off the bench will be G Watson (6-5, 21.3 minutes), followed by G Cohill (6-2, 17 minutes), F Johnson (6-9, 13 minutes), and G Matos (6-5, 10.5 minutes)
The Hokies top performers are F Nolley II (6-7 30.5 minutes), G Bede (6-1, 26.8 minutes), G Alleyne (6-3, 26.2 minutes), F Horne (6-6, 25.7 minutes), and G Cattoor (6-3, 24.5 minutes). Regular depth is provided by G Wilkins (6-3, 19 minutes), G Radford (6-2, 18.5 minutes), G Cone (5-10, 13.3 minutes), and F Ojiako (6-10, 12.8 minutes)
As a whole, Dayton has the more proficient scorers, netting a combined 85.5 ppg combined to 78.6 for the Hokies. Size is roughly equivalent, with a slight edge to Dayton. The Hokies are better on the glass, pulling down 4.6 more rebounds per game, and better at passing, with about 1 assist per game more, and couple this with 1.5 fewer turnovers per game. The two teams are nearly identical in steals (6.1 - 6.0 VT) and blocks (4.7-4.5 VT).
As was said above, Toppin is going to get his. It will be critical for the Hokies to contain Crutcher and Chatman, as both are acting as combo guards for the Flyers 10.3 assists and 25.3 points per game combined. As they are both 6-1, placing the better defender in Bede and choosing which other guard (Alleyne, Cattoor, Wilkins, or Radford) to cover the other should be effective. Nolley can matchup favorably against Mikesell, allowing the other guard on the floor to cover Landers or Watson. Yes Horne will be giving up a lot to Toppin, but it'll serve as a warmup for conference play.
I assume Toppin will get 20-25 points. If the Hokies can keep the rest of the starters to fewer than 40 points combined, we should win.
Both teams are top tier offenses (Dayton 2nd in offensive efficiency; the Hokies are 20th). They are a mediocre team defensively, ranking 146th in defensive efficiency (Virginia Tech is 24th), which gives the Hokies a decided advantage. Particular is Dayton's rank of 308th in Opponent 3-pt % (The Hokies are 13th)
Another major reason that our focus needs to be on Crutcher and Chatman is that they combine to shoot 11.8 three point attempts per game so far, which is about 45% of the teams perimeter shooting. Neither is shooting above 40% right now and we need to make sure we keep it that way by having a hand up in their face. We cant sleep on their outside shot or one or both will heat up and could prove the difference in this game.
Toppin will give us much more trouble due to his size. Winston will be a consensus first team All-American, but we had someone comparable in size to lock him down (Bede). Who do you all think will guard him? I don't think CMY will let Nolley due to keeping him out of foul trouble. Could be Horne?
EDIT: We didn't have an answer for him. What a player. Hope he does well in the next level!
It's gotta be Horne. After watching him pack Bagley on the baseline I'm sure he'll hold his own
Horne is only 6'5" but I think he's got an abnormally long wingspan for someone his size. That certainly helps mitigate a lot of his size issues.
Bede was one of the best defenders Cassius will see all season. We don't have that answer for Toppin.
We're probably gonna have to throw some double teams at him and try and out-shoot them
I know its early in the season but those numbers are insane.
They're pretty outrageously good.
Tonight is going to be another challenge.
15 min warning
LETS GO
Hokies!
Ok, here it goes. I am going to attempt to be a basketball fan this year.
I have tried this many years in the past, and usually fail miserably since I forget when games are on and end up doing other things. Wish me luck.
This the game thread then?
Gotta say...I am not a fan of those striped shirts. Lol
Those shirts are... something
I think Mike Young looks hella sexy
Nolley for 3!
Great. Soft ass refs are gonna screw us
Gotta heat up, getting good looks
Dayton hitting some tough shots and Nolley picks up two questionable fouls before the first media TO.
Our best player is out with 2 fouls 4 minutes into the game on some soft calls. Really annoying when refs try to dictate a game. Without Nolley we're gonna have to hit a ton of shots to keep up with Dayton or we're getting run off the court. 10-0 run already by them
If the officials continue to call minimal contact fouls we will be run out of the gym.
We do not drive to the basket aggressively enough to put pressure on Dayton in the form of foul trouble.
Our aggressive D coupled with their slashing style is going to keep us in foul trouble.
aaaaand this is what I expected last night.
Hope we can serve up a counterpunch in the next six minutes.
Floor looks slick again
We're gonna be playing 5v3 by the end of this game Jesus
Dayton is doing what VCU used to do all the time - play defense with constant contact, getting away with little bumps and grabs because refs aren't gonna make a call every possession. VT is playing off a little bit and still getting called for slight contact.
Dayton is getting physical defensively and pushing our shooters off of their spots. They're employing the "the refs can't call a foul every possession" strategy.
Edit: Damn, looks like I'm drinking.
Great minds think alike.
Come on boys!
Keep draining those 3s we'll be in it
We're letting them dictate this game. Getting manhandled right now
We cant get over that 4-6 point hump
So many wide open 3's and offensive rebounds
The two or three girls screaming during our possessions need to be put down...
Dayton 62% from 3. Have to cool off.
2nd half we'll get a rim made out of lasagna.
Could toppin have two luckier bounces on his shots? Christ.
Dayton is absolutely nuclear from downtown and the refs are trying to steal the spotlight with animated calls. This is tough to watch.
Starting to get out of hand. Need some stops and some points
We are playing good defense. There is no stopping 8/13 (62%) on mostly contested threes.
Definitely, a learning experience.
Stick to the basics, play clean, don't let the bs play or refs ruffle your feathers. Lots of "noise" in this game.
Note: VT is absolutely cold on the threes right now; Dayton is absolutely hot on them.
How many fucking steps did he just take? WTF, is Lebron playing?
Why are these refs creating a show out of every foul call? Nobody is there to see them
Need to get this back to 6 by the half to have a chance.
Don't see that happening. We're spiraling right now
How are there so many Dayton fans there?
Dayton has a surprisingly large fanbase. There's no local team here, so the entire city gets behind the college basketball team
EDIT: Also it's an expensive private school. Alums tend to be well-off and want to get out of Dayton this time of year
I'd imagine they flew there?
We're getting run out of the gym
feel like its getting out of hand and everything is bouncing dayton's way while nothing is bouncing ours
That ref they showed has call alot of A-10 games in his career
I think we used up all of our luck last night. Every tipped rebound and loose ball is falling in Dayton's hands and they've had two or three 3s with insane bounces.
You know what?
I'd make that trade again, if given a choice, even though it stings a bit right now.
Yeah this is more what I expected this season
Bede always seems like he releases his 3's as he's coming down from his jump
I said this last year. He seems to expend so much energy into getting lift on his shot that he ends up out of balance. He seldom shoots in rhythm.
VT can't make baskets tonight.
Dayton's defense is a lot better.
Nothing falling
Dayton is just really effin good
Those volleyball lines on the floor have been messing with me both games
I don't quite see us working our way back into this one tonight.
Man, Dayton has some height, and know how to use it to their advantage.
This is the first game we really miss KBJ.
That being said, there's no shame losing to Dayton. Elite defensive team with a lottery talent anchoring their offense.
They are using everything to their advantage. The Hokies, not so much.
Dayton is good. We did not dictate the pace. We were relatively good defense but they shot the lights out.
Welp, Hokies getting run out of the gym tonight
Refs are calling a tighter game than last... Our D has loosened from it the whole first half basically
Sort of difficult when they're taller and you can't breathe on them or get near them.
And you can't hit threes.
Yeah and I just posted the rebound stat... Pretty brutal
Our boys look like a young, inexperienced team tonight. It's going to happen this season. I'm looking for fight and fundamentals in the second half. Dayton is a really good team.
Geez. Talk about taking the wind out of your sails. I realize we're not actually on the same level as Michigan state but seeing us get run off the court by freaking Dayton (I know they're good) is pretty disheartening. Not that I expected us to win tonight but this is the first game we have looked flat out lost & scared of the moment
Also rebounds: 21-8 pretty much all you need to know
We know they're taller and can ball.
Yep, hopefully we could still go on a run if in the second half if we can get some quick pass 3s going
I'd rather have this game now than in January in the ACC.
There are some things to work on.
Also, better to get to play Dayton than to face Georgia. A whole different level of play. Good experience to have in November.
They are getting experience on what to do when Landers gets into early foul trouble. Took them out of rhythm early
Yes, exactly.
This is going to happen plenty in ACC play too. We're young & we're gonna get outplayed & outsized some nights. Just the nature of the beast
Yeah, but the point is that we're getting the first one now, outside of ACC play.
So we won't be quite as surprised/unprepared for it in January.
That 2nd foul on Nolley had to be called on his breath. WTF refs, let them play on both ends. Those 2 quickies really threw us out of sync.
I was hoping the decent back to reality would be a gentle one. Ah well, young team. To be expected, right? The future is still bright.
Side note: ... Y'all see that bizarre ass interview from the previous CEO of Papa John's?
Hard to stop those deep threes
VT looks more physical in the second half.
Fuck these refs
Yeah, tons of contact on our end and no whistles... ever
Yeah, I mean, they're definitely not the reason we're losing, but fucking hell, even Bilas is nothing all the non calls going their way
What's with that foul?
I mean, this is on the verge of flopping for those fouls.
There's a Dayton player on the floor every play. They fall without contact if anyone is close.
The refs picked who they wanted to win before the game
Wow, come on refs. At least call it fair on both ends.
How many over the backs and shooting fouls are they gonna let Dayton get away with?
Dayton came out sloppy, this is a great opportunity to close the gap.
Then Dayton complains when a foul is called on them.
lol
That would have been huge
You're kidding me
Fuck. I want to nut punch one of these refs right now.
Amazing.
Somehow VT gets penalized for Dayton's foul.
Fuck that ruling
Fuckin ridiculous, huge swing for Dayton
Every pick Dayton sets they push the person they are setting the screen on
What was with that ref blowing his whistle five times for a foul?
Well there goes any chance we had with that BS review
So the Dayton guy throws his elbow into Radford on a rebound & Radford is called for the foul
We aren't losing because of the refs, but sheesh... this is like playing at Cameron Indoor
New name for that ref, twinkle toes. He makes a show out of every foul.
Wow. This is UNC / Duke levels of corruption by the zebras
Obi Toppin is a baller but I'm fairly annoyed at how often Dayton falls at contact and gets rewarded for it
meanwhile they go over the back - no foul
meanwhile their screeners push off every time they roll to the lane - no foul
so annoying
Refs killed the momentum with a horseshit call on Nolley's three. Basketball continues to be a frustrating sport to watch if you enjoy a level playing field.
These refs suck!
No over the back of course
Over the back much??
Fucker was all over us and it's a foul on us!?!?!?
How's that not over the back?
When did Grayson Allen re-enroll at Dayton?
Wow, just wow.
But theirs counts?
I think even Dayton can't believe this bullshit.
How in the fuck was that a foul on Wilkins & not over the back?
This is the performance I expected last night against MSU. Just all around a pretty lackluster showing after one of the biggest wins we've had in a while
Didn't even know who this ref was until today but I'm glad he's retiring tomorrow
Dayton is starting to have some foul trouble, if VT can get their heads screwed back on after some of those atrocious calls.
Just not our night lol. These refs combined with the bounces Dayton has gotten we just stood no chance. Dayton is a very good team but I think we could've kept it much closer than this most nights
They're a good team, and they've gotten some bounces, but 1) they know how to play the refs, and 2) the refs have made some odd calls.
VT needs to remember that they can actually play some basketball.
You know refs are fucking you when they prevent you from scoring by calling fouls on the other team.
I don't like how they've been calling it either way, it's supposed to be game management, not try to show your worth by blowing the whistle at every fucking opportunity
For you basketball gurus out there... Our motion is almost nonexistent at this point. Is that because Dayton is playing great D or because we simply aren't executing well?
They are playing great man to man defense. The motion we run gets open looks due to the defense providing help when needed which leaves someone open. Dayton just hasn't been letting anyone get open. Part of it could be that we're worn out and defeated though.
That was a nasty move lol
Force feed the basketball to Landers Nolley forcing up terrible looks and allow the same player to whoop your ass every time down the floor. Seems like the recipe for success to me
I would say what are we gonna do against a team like this but luckily players like Toppin are few and far between
Man I'm glad I'm not playing. If I was on the court & the guy I'm guarding was show boating like toppin he's taking an elbow to the ribs as soon as he goes up
Then you foul out.
In five plays.
Gonna foul out with these refs anyway. Might as well make him second guess
I know it's a bad game....but Nolley needs to get a post/inside game to be a legit 1 and done. Kind of like NAW...tuck the ball and get to the line/make a lay up.
the biggest hole in Nolley's game seems to be the lack of the ability (or willingness) to draw contact and get to the FT line.
On most of these missed fade-away jumpers in the post all he has to do is give a ball fake and go straight up and he gets fouled. stops the clock and gets Dayton in foul trouble.
Bede please stop shooting the ball.
He's not the only one leaving shots short.. tired legs all around.
Damn dude just triple team him
This is embarrassing at this point. Guys not even trying to play defense.
Because they'd immediately foul out.
You're probably right.
The Google score tracker for this game currently says Dayton is winning 75-0. Kind of feels like that.
Well, I'm done for tonight, gotta pack for the weekend
Yeah, you're not going to miss anything at this point.
For the love of god Bede needs to stop shooting the basketball. But how many times is Toppin going to be allowed to spin baseline and dunk before we get the picture?
In unrelated news, Ohio State just leapfrogged LSU for #1 in football.
So all of Ohio having a good time.
This is actually the team I thought we'd see all year.
Why are the Dayton players acting like assholes?
I mean, is the taunting bullshit necessary? It's not like we're Duke.
Cause they're assholes
They think they are so good
I mean.....
Some team is gonna get tired of their assholeness and theirs gonna be punches thrown
I'm going out on a limb and guessing that they're acting like assholes because they are assholes?
or maybe they really bought into the disrespect angle of the line on this game not being Dayton -10
I can take the loss to a good team, but the refs made this one unbearable
Also Dayton acting like a miami football team doesn't help
That's a flat-out beatdown. Outplayed, out coached, and pretty much out classed. But who really gives a crap, as long as CJF's boys can win on Friday it will be a great week for VT.
Outplayed, yes.
Outclassed, no.
They can ball. That's for sure.
I'll be pulling for Kansas tomorrow.
Why? BYU wins tonight and we beat Kansas tomorrow.
Edit: Game just started, whoa, Kansas looks scary
My man
Yes, it's safe to say that I would not have seen that coming.
Hot take: Dayton is good at basketball
Get a win tomorrow and this is still a successful trip to Maui. Beating MSU > losing to Dayton. We had no answer for Toppin and our shots weren't falling tonight. As others have said, this is great experience to get us ready for the ACC. LET'S GO!
HOKIES!
Their shots were falling and ours weren't. Toppin is a superstar. Everyone is so let down apparently that our team is 6-1 now haha. There are high school players on our team. It was a very good learning experience and will make these guys play harder. It was tough seeing our guys get called for fouls when there was someone on their backs.
Bede leads the ACC in assists. He is one of the best defenders in the country. I'm ok with him taking some shots and missing them. He also makes some clutch shots when needed. I have nothing but love for this team.
I'm hoping the ceiling is high on Ojiako. Might need him to play a bigger role at some point
Seems like we got beat by a team playing Mike Young's type ball, but with more experience to gel and a stud feature player. I can imagine VT looking and playing similar in a few years.
Unfortunately there will be a handful of these type of games. Our threes didnt fall, we got crushed on the boards in a definitely more physical game than any we have seen so far. One that had a lot of whistles but could have had many more. Then they also had a one man show that either caught and dunked or grabbed the rebound and dunked Pretty outrageous that he had reached his 100th dunk in just his 38th game. Also ridiculous that someone was tracking how many dunks he had already had. They only credited Toppin with 8 rebounds but it sure felt like 80. Good learning experience and hopefully they come back out for Game 3 with good energy and finish up strong.
He didn't need to act like a asshat tho
Pretty common though with the AAU Lottery Pick guys. They are used to showboating to get attention in the crowd of talent. Zion had plenty of those moments, especially after huge dunks.
If that was our guy you wouldn't be saying that. If we don't want him to celebrate his big plays on a big stage we need to stop him from making big plays.
I think tonight speaks more to Dayton being that good more than anything. They shot hot, we got zero 50-50 bounces and the refs were on the take; those nights are gonna happen. This was first time we've gotten punched in the mouth, and we showed some youth. But we're miles ahead of where I expected us (shit, I thought this might happen night 1 at Littlejohn), and it gave us a taste of what it will take to consistently win in the ACC, before we get to Duke. I'm ok with it, MYs a teacher, sky's not fallin.
Thanks for the voice of reason and good perspective
We're a thinktank, right?
Biggest question at the Maui Invitational is where the heck is Bill Walton. Was really hoping to hear his totally bizarre color commentary at some point.
At the beach apparently
High as fuuuuccckkkk
👌🏿
Pretty sure he's handled the late games, and now the consolation bracket.
Apparently he was saying he's never called a VT game before, but I'm pretty sure he'll be on the call tonight against BYU.
Can't wait for the full Bill Walton Experience!
No joke, Dayton physically looks like a Final Four team. They have size and length, they play great D and they share the ball on offense. They look much bettwr, not just against us but in this tournament than Michigan State.
We literally don't know what a paint touch is
This just seems like the season for upsets:
Stephen F Austin over Duke
Evansville over Kentucky
Dayton over VT
In all seriousness, for a team this young, I can imagine a let-down is likely after beating the #3 ranked team, for one of your schools biggest wins of all-time. I didn't see much of the game, but from what I did see, our 3's weren't falling, and Dayton looked REALLY impressive. I think there will be other games like this too, probably inevitable with how young we are.
I loved seeing Duke go down.
One thing, though:
Nope, VT over Michigan State. That got the nation's attention and ESPN drooling, well, maybe not Seth Greenberg.
I think two games in a row made a difference. Half the players have never experienced anything like that - so I'm guessing they were still tired after yesterday's game. Add in the strange start time, and they looked like they didn't have the same energy. They will learn.
Dayton is looking incredible against Kansas right now even with Obi Toppin being double teamed on every play by the Kansas D.
This loss won't affect our resume at all come March.