Seems fitting.
Bud's crew does what Bud's crew does against running QBs. It is what it is.
Corny does what he does. Flashy at spot, but mostly a discombobulated mess between being overly conservative and a complete lack of execution.
Not sure what to expect next season.
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Shit season capped off with a shitty bowl performance. It all comes full circle.
Cornelsen has to answer for going conservative twice: getting the ball with 5:30 left in the first half, getting the interception in the 4th quarter. Two 3 and outs when we could have made room. Atrocious play calling.
Agreed, get someone with balls as OC.
What? You did see the dropped passes on that last drive right?
Feels like people have already made up their minds. I'm definitely no fan of Corny, but to blame this game on him is ridiculous.
I have been the biggest Cornelsen sympathizer this season. But his work today was unacceptable. Completely winnable game, completely blown in key moments.
Corny didn't drop those passes. He schemed those guys open.
Agree. Although there were some questionable play calls there were far more plays that were not executed. For example, on Grimsley's dropped pass near the goal line - that play was perfectly called, and Hooker underthrew the ball when it should have been caught in stride for 6. I don't want to single out a play but had that one ball been thrown accurately we are all likely having a very different thread discussion this evening..
Further, if we had an OC with killer instinct - we could have adjusted and won the game!
Serious question- as specific as you can possibly be, what would you have wanted to see to show a "killer instinct"?
Not one blessed with a play by play memory of the game, so will avoid specifics. But I want to see the pedal to the metal for 60 minutes. I like Fuente, and I see bright lights from Cornelsen at times, however, you play to win. Settling for 3 a couple times was pointless, and in this context conservative calls brought us to that point.
Dropped passes, bad calls, etc. those are the norm. Will happen regardless, being aggressive for 60 minutes here in this game specifically likely would have yielded two more points. Yes, I realize the risk, but we lost the math currently dont check out.
Swing for the fences, and quit dickin around.
Aggressiveness is an appealing complaint to fans because it's a generic term that sounds better than saying, "we should have ran more plays that score touchdowns." When I hear people complain about aggressiveness, I generally assume they mean throwing the ball downfield more. I don't know if that's what you mean by saying you wanted more aggressiveness, which is exactly why I asked for specifics (I'm not asking for spider 2 y banana here, but at least deep passes down the sidelines, passes attacking the middle of the field, off tackle runs, or anything else at all would make the complaint far more meaningful).
Since I'm left to assume what aggressiveness means to you in this case, I will point out that we averaged 6.6 yards per rush and were only 12/22 passing. We had several chances for the QB and WRs to make a play in key moments and multiple times they failed to do so as a result of poor execution. Some people will blame all execution errors on the coaches too but in cases like obviously dropped balls or terribly thrown passes, I just can't agree with that view. At some point the players on the field are responsible and the most basic football actions seems like a reasonable line to draw.
With the QB play we showed yesterday, I cannot reasonably conclude that we would have won the game by relying on a more aggressive passing attack, considering that we failed to execute multiple times on simple, fundamental plays in the passing game.
Can't upvote this enough.
If that's how you define aggressive then I agree that is not the problem with Corn. Corn has a problem with trying to mix things up too much. Of course it's good to keep the D off balance but it almost seems like he's going off a script rather than making an in game adjustments to what the D is showing it's weakness is. WHY THE F**K did we not run off tackle in critical drives when it worked all day???? Even better, the strong counter proved to not be stopped and Corn ran a fake away from it on our last drive. Corn is so dumb to do that.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying but ultimately the coach is responsible for recruiting the players on the field and if those players can't execute, coach needs to recruit better players.
But yet the defense continually gets a pass in games like this
Defensive players have to execute too.
Most of the people calling for aggressiveness I've noticed were also criticizing it in games earlier this year. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Exactly. It's like people forget Kentucky is a Top 25 defense and hadn't given up more than 29 points a game all year.
Their schedule was horrendous. Florida with Franks for half the game and Georgia in a hurricane were the only two meaningful teams they played
Also their offense plays keep away which limits possessions which inflates defense numbers (deflates?)
Yet we scored more than any other offense, all of which had to compete with the same keep away approach
We had a month to prepare. UVA scored on Florida, too. Let's quit acting like scoring 30 on Kentucky is worthy of a freaking trophy.
We had a month to prepare for their one dimensional offense too and it didn't really help. It is still 30 points on a good defense. Could have been more without horrible execution errors.
I wasn't even thinking about this. Kentucky is a top-25 defense. And we scored 30, and could have scored more given the execution errors. We return all starters on offense - that makes me feel even better about how well our offense will hopefully do next year. Gives us an offseason to work on those errors, and if we don't make them next year...
You act like we had a month to prepare for their defense, but their defense only had 3 days to prep for our offense. You realize the extra time works both ways, right?
How many points is the right number of points for a team to score? If we'd scored 30, but our defense held them to 20 points, 30 points is great! The point that people are making is that we scored more than any other team on them, not specifically that it was 30. Your defense has to hold as well. If we scored more than anybody else, how do you not say that your offense (even with dropped balls and bad passes) didn't do at least an acceptable job. Our defense let one guy run 233 yards on us.
If we had scored 50 on them, but they scored 60, would you still have blamed it on the offense and said they needed to score 65? Where's the magic line at which an offense has done their job but the defense didn't?
Clearly there is a line. With a 1-dimensional running offense, though, at some point they'd not have the ability to keep running the ball. Go up 2 scores instead of kicking field goals and you force them into throwing downfield - something that was clearly very challenging for them to do, given our easy INT, and the other easy INT that had the phantom PI call. Against a running offense, ball control and TOP is important. The defense got 2 turnovers (which really should have been 4) and the offense went 3 and out. We're acting like it was a surprise the defense couldn't hold them, when our defense, and defense against running QBs has been pretty poor of late. We should gameplan for that on the offensive side of the ball too, and maybe be a little more aggressive.
There is 100% blame on both sides of the ball, and I'm certainly not saying the defense played well. They played poorly in the same units they've played poorly all year. Safety play was even worse than normal, but our DL, who was bad all year, did about what we should have expected. Hewitt actually played a little better than he had in most games. The LBs, as they have, weren't great and struggled with contain and gap control, which again, should play into planning on the offensive side of the ball too.
My issue is with "30 points was enough to win." It was not, or else we would have won. And "we scored 30 points" against a program like Kentucky, like it is some sort of moral victory, is maybe more of a frustrating realization to me, because that's how far we've fallen.
So if we had scored more points than any other opponent against a top 25 defense of a team with a bigger football name than Kentucky, you would be ok with the offensive performance right?
And don't take this as our offense couldn't have played better or shouldn't have made some of the plays they didn't. I'm just saying when your offense scores more than anybody else has on them, I tend to lean to the fact that the defense needed to have played better. Like I said, one guy, 233 yards on the ground against us.
If we'd have held Kentucky on that last drive, we'd have gotten a freaking trophy.
(or, to be fair, if any of a number of other things had happened, like refs calling an obvious fumble the turnover it was)
Tell me one time where the off tackle true down block OL scheme didn't hit on all cylinders and Corn idiotically went away from it on the last drive for a lower % executable play (reverse and pass). How is that me making up my mind by anything else besides what I saw on the field. Just because it's valid to also blame the defense doesn't take away any of this.
I saw the two runs before that too
We put up 30 on a team that allowed 20 or less to 9 of their other 12 opponents and lost to a team that might be more one dimensional than GT was with chinballs. This isn't on Corny.
We still lost though...
Two things stuck out to me in today's game:
1. Poor WR play
2. Lack of urgency on offense when up or at key moments
Some of that is Cornelsen, some is Fuente, and some is former coach Jafar Williams.
Wait....did Jafar leave?
no. that was wishful thinking on my part.
I'm not optimistic, all the talent in the world can't fix questionable coaching. I really hate going super conservative before the half or those stupid qb sweeps that werent working
For everyone that likes to bring up Kills contributions to our success, this is something that definitely has his fingerprints on it. At Minnesota he would always opt to take a knee with a ~minute left on the clock before half rather than "risk turning the ball over"
Fuesnte demonstrated this disappointing tendency prior to Kill's arrival.
Idk he was generally a very aggressive coach. There hasn't been a time where it's happened this egregiously, and in a bowl game for Christ's sake
Fuente's New Years resolution should be to never kick a field goal in the red zone. It always comes back to beat you!
Just look at the OSU/Clemson semi game this year. 3 FGs in the red zone killed them.
Every single player on the defense should be absolutely ashamed of how they sent Bud out over the last two games. A complete and total embarrassment and failure of epic proportions after what was looking like a successful season.
It's not going to happen, but Cornelsen needs to be fired.
Fuente does what Fuente does, waste end of first half possession he wishes he had back.
Incredibly this was the one thing he was really good at in 2016 that was a breath of fresh air but he has regressed right back to Beamer's ways of "aw shucks we'll get em next quarter"
Yeah he's already showing the worst traits of Beamer. Way too loyal to buddies and not being aggressive enough at certain times during the game. The lack of situational in-game awareness and the flow of the game really bother me. Lack of attention to detail. I just don't get the warm and fuzzies about this staff.
I have seen this scenario play out way too many times since I started at Tech in 95.
Fundamental mistakes and an inability to shut the door.
I'm relieved it's over, but that's only because I don't know what JH will bring.
Fuente needs to get his head out of his ass and stop coaching scared. Kicking a field goal from the 5 yard line in the fourth quarter to go up 6 points? The fuck does that get you? Congrats, you took a one score game and made it a... one score game? Absolutely unacceptable. I'm furious.
Just curious, what would your reaction be if they had gone for it and didn't convert?
I'd be fine with it...because it remains a one score game. The field goal there didn't matter.
Except it does when the only way Kentucky can win is to march the entire length of the field for a TD instead of getting chunk plays for a potential OT kick.
Which they had been averaging over 7 yards a carry...so that should have been expected?
I think my point is, Fuente trusted the defense to stop them from scoring a TD. Last game for Bud? Let him make one final stand.
It didn't work out, but I wasn't really upset over the decision.
except, if UK was only down 3, they would at least have to think about kicking that field goal on 4th and 2. Would they play for overtime at that point? Kicking the field goal made that a non-decision and it hurt in the end.
I can't speak for the original poster, but my reaction would have been, "it's a bowl game, be aggressive, well crap it didn't work out."
Fuente wastes so many possessions and Im fucking sick of it. Letting time expire with 2 timeouts on 2nd down in the first half is inexcusable.
Frame the discussion around the offense with the knowledge that Kentucky was 13th in the country in scoring defense giving up 18ppg.
Conservative playcalling an issue at times? Sure, but this wasn't some debacle on offense.
I agree. Sure, there were a few head scratching play calls, but not every play can be a first down, even though I'd like to see something else called. The dropped passes absolutely destroyed us in that bowl game.
It looked like we had a good gameplan, but no game management whatsoever. Regardless of how well the offense performed, there's no excuse for pissing away opportunities that we were given.
That's exactly my view of Cornelson. I'm sure when you sit down and talk to him, you're amazed at how much he knows and how brilliantly he thinks. But you end the season with 7 or 8 wins.
I don't know if the defense will get better or worse next year, but if Cornelson is still OC (and I think he will be), I bet you we win 7 or 8 games next year.
I feel like I read the same exact posts only with Loeffler instead of Cornelsen.
Two more things: someone better have a long, loud chat with Armani Chatman, and how do we not get that fumble at the end there reviewed? Fuente, call the timeout.
WHY IN THE FUCK DIDN'T HE CALL A TIME OUT
The call on the field was forward progress, not reviewable.
This. And Fuente knew this.
I get that reasoning, but I don't believe this is completely accurate. Because they didnt spot the ball where the forward progress would have been. The whole play was kinda weird from the standpoint of what the call on the field actually was. The strip occurred just past the 25 yard line, prior to the second push. They spotted him down at the 24, which is in between were the strip occurred and where the QB ended up being "down". There were no whistles or signals I could see prior to him being down.
That being said, I'm not convinced they would have overturned the call on the field. He had reached the line to gain prior to the second push, so they may have just said forward progress was stopped prior to the strip and he received a generous spot. Might have been worth a time out and shouting match with the refs.
The actual apparent rules should not have mattered. Why not call the TO and make sure? Holding onto the TO made zero sense at the time. I was personally infuriated at this move.
in a post game interview, someone asked Fu why he did not call a time out to challenge the play and he said that he asked a referee and was told that they already checked the play and not to waist a time out. After seeing the video, I doubt they had actually reviewed it and why would a ref ever say that to a coach?
talk with chatman about what? if him saying a curse word on a football field is an issue with you, you should probably wear ear muffs to the game. there is LOTS of foul language. that penalty was completely bonus and when I saw the flag I thought it was for taunting on KY until they announced it, if its in regards to him being beat on the TD he tried to jam and get up in the the WR and play physical with him (which if the WR ran a slant and he didn't jam/ play physical he would have given that up like he did on the 4th and 7) and he just straight up got beat. we played man coverage the entire game on the outside and he got beat on 1 play. I'm not going to be to hard on the kid. He played good this year when called on a kid who started the season 3rd on the depth chart against BC (or listed as or with webb)
Only reason for that penalty is if it was directed at the ref. When the ref threw the flag, it looked like chatman was ranting to them about the kentucky player taunting as he went into the endzone. If he was using "abusive language" directed at the official, then i have no problem with the call. Say what you want to the other team, but guys know not to go off on an official.
I agree with you 100% he should know better than to talk to refs. I think a lot of the frustration and there in after cursing or abusive language stemmed from all the build up over the week. you allow KY to punch a player pre game, our players don't throw any punches, you allow KY to start trash trash talks at the speedway and VT is the one getting beat down on media, you allow KY to consistently talk trash, KY comes out and gets what 3/4 personal fouls on the first offensive drive? then you give up an 80 yard run (which is already frustrating for a defense that does care tremendously about representing bud and the LPD) and the refs then allow to KY to taunt him? I think it boiled over all those things combined. not saying its ok. but the refs seemed to have gotten the SEC bag dropped off at the house prior to the game and through out the game allowed KY to get away with cheap shots, trash talk, and game winning fumbles. I got some choice words for those refs myself after that one myself.
I think our new DB coach would agree /s (d.hall aint the next DB coach yall don't get excited)
Defense did enough two turnovers late only turned into 3 points due to some poor throws and drops, sad to see bud go out like that he deserved far better.
This is an underrated point. Complementary football.
Seems to me that Bud was somewhat in control of his exit. We get a stop on one of those long drives, we win that game.
The counter argument can be made that if we went for a TD instead of kicking a FG we win. Or if the first offensive drive hadn't been absolute shit. Or if the receivers hadn't dropped some crucial balls. Why are you blaming this solely on Bud when BOTH sides of the ball clearly and obviously had shortcomings and didn't get the job done?
I'm not blaming it on Bud.
I'm saying that he had control of his send-off. A stop on that last series, and it's a win.
I think VT stopped them twice on the final drive and just didn't get the calls on 4th downs. Bud's career almost ended with:
LPD gives up 24 points but ends the game forcing turnovers on each of Kentucky's crucial final 3 possessions. Bud carried off into the sunset.
We were very unlucky on the final drive, but that is the game and I still love the game. We got lucky several times against UVA last year and that ended up being one of my favorite games ever, and the bowl streak is alive.
I actually think the team is better off next year because this year didn't end in success. Our teams the past 2years respond better to adversity than to success, but man did I want them to win that game
Interesting take, and some good points.
You're right about this team responding better to adversity than success for some reason.
What a crock of shit. This is the most angry, disappointed, and yet apathetic I have ever been about VT football.
This is my problem with fans, damn if you do and damned if you don't.
Very lucky to get the first FG from 52 yards.
Second FG, Hooker throws a low ball to Hazelton and Turner drops a pass during the last four downs.
3rd FG is iffy but if the team goes for it on 4th and gets stuffed 3 yards out, many fans would be bemoaning again the terrors of Corn and Fu
We'd bemoan the terrors, but respect the cajones
Nobody would be bemoaning him for going for it instead of kicking the third FG. All that field goal got us was a 1 point loss
It was done in hopes of preventing a field goal for the tie. Its on the defense to prevent the other team from getting the next seven.
I would agree with this if my DC wasn't known for giving up late game winning drives like he'd already done this season
So you agree or are saying that Cornelson isn't to blame for this loss but more so on the defense?
I think the key here is talking about what each unit is capable of and having that unit do it's best to win the game. Our offense is capable of moving the ball. Our defense wasn't capable of containing their quarterback. Saying the defense sucks so conservative play calling is okay is a total fallacy. Neither is okay, but only one of the units and the associated play calling gave us a chance to win. We have had a tendency to play "not to lose", but that is not the same as playing to win. We have to get out of our heads that a touchdown is a lead. A touchdown is a possible tie if not a loss. Were there dropped balls? Sure. Did the defense stink up the joint at times? Sure. But let's not forget how long the defense was on the field: Kentucky had the ball for 35+ minutes. Our game plan, in that case, cannot be run out the clock, because that's their game plan!!! We should have forced them to play from behind by two touchdowns which would have forced them to throw to score quickly.
Regardless. I think the point is that the offense had the potential to put up more points and the conservative play-calling prevented that from happening in the hopes of avoiding a bad outcome... Such as losing... If your unit can win the game, your unit should. Sometimes it's the defense, sometimes it's the offense. In this game, it was on the offense to take the risks and get the points. If they fail while trying, well, I'm okay with that.
The conservative plays were the ones that were working.
The passing game works when the throw is good and it gets caught. To many times, that didn't happen in this game. The right play was called, but didn't work.
Something has to change next year man. Idk who the originator of the conservative play calling is, but you don't go turtle until <20 min in the game up 2 TDs. You have to score when you can and when you piss away possessions, this is what happens. It's infuriating as a fan to watch good teams lose due to this mindset. Yes, we had key drops, and yes, the D once again couldn't account for a mobile "qb", but god damn, we wasted 2-4 drives. That coupled with settling for field goals, Shit show of a game from start to finish. I feel like jekyl and mr. hide watching Tech play.
Fucking LSU didn't let up when they were up 5+ td's and they are favorites to win the natty. That's a killer mindset that is missing from this team/staff and it is why they will always be mediocre.
Repeated dropped passes to end drives in the 2nd half. Nothing Fu or Corn can do about those other than recruit better players (which is a legit complaint, really). But other than the two HH keepers in the RZ, I really don't understand the complaining about Corny today.
Its about situational awareness and understanding where a game is headed. We were playing a game where we would have limited possessions and he chose, on at least 4 drives, to be ultra conservative when he shouldn't have been. Getting 3 points off of two turnovers late in the game is unforgivable, especially when the D is gassed.
Not when your up 27-24. You miss the 4th down conversion you're screwed if next UK possession they score a TD and then you're down 31-27. Meaning a FG is not gonna tie or allow you to take the lead.
There were 4 possessions by my count, the one you referenced being one of them, where IMO we were far too conservative. What did that FG end up doing for us?
I'm confused by the four possession you reference. I understand the frustration for the series that led to the first punt and the last FG. But whatever other two were on the players not executing.
When you are on offense you take points, cause you can't control anything on D except trying to stop your opponent (they were 6-13 on 3rd and 3-3 on 4th)
100% agree on the dropped passes. Players did no execute in crucial moments. It's the plays leading up to the crucial moments that are the head scratchers.
Two wasted drives to end the first half, settling for a FG on the 5 yd line when 3 points does nothing for you. 3 points off of two turnovers. Going away from the off tackle runs that were gashing the d. 2 predictable runs to set up the crucial Hazelton drop. The play calling was scared in critical times and that was a major factor in losing this game.
Im not dismissing the D not being able to make a stop. I would also say this loss is 45% on the refs being fucking terrible at their job. However, the O had the ability to put this game away multiple times, but failed either through being way too conservative or not executing on critical downs.
I can see the potential in Corn at times, but it just feels like he doesn't know how to call a complete game. Once he gets something rolling, he immediately pivots. Sure, you don't want to continue to run the same play over and over, but if you got something working, figure out how to make it work until you can't anymore. Feels like he gets ahead of himself.
I agree with you. I'm soooooooooo tired of people on here putting all of the blame on some 20 year olds for "not executing" on two or three plays all game. There would be fewer crucial moments that require perfect execution if the coaching staff would put the team in a better situation on 1st and 2nd down.
The D had about 80 yards to put the game away. They failed. Bud failed. It's ok for it to be stated. He's one of the best D coordinators ever - but he did not have a stout defense this year. The team is not there yet. The drops were horrible and game-changing. Corny has his own issues to work on - but the plays were there overall.
That said, we are better than last year - we need to continue that next year.
This is a fair and realistic take. It sounds like we're on the same page.
And some in the second half too that would have been first downs.
Well, if you are saying LSU has the eye of the tiger and our coaching staff has the eye of the kitty cat, yeah, I would agree with you on that. This year has felt like we couldn't put away my grandmama.
I'm not sure where my anger lies. Now I have to host people that I don't want to host.
Damn, that sucks. Sorry dude. Have some bourbon.
Why are people putting this solely at the feet of the offense? We gave up 31 points to an offense that doesn't have a quarterback. I love Bud but it's been time for a couple years.
I'm not. The loss is mostly on Bud and the defense.
Hurts fam. Fumble for another score extra salt in the wound this season has been. I need a pick-me-up.
*checks scores on ESPN, chuckles, then log on to TKP and read comments*
Right, I'm heading out of here.
If you're "checking the score on ESPN" then you're probably not that invested anyway, why bother logging on to check comments
For the shithousery, obviously. It can be fun to watch people rage if you're in the right state of mind. I, however, am saltier than the Dead Sea so that's what I'm here for.
For me, the season was over when the clock hit 00:00 in Charlottesville.
My interest in bowl games have greatly waned over the years and I can't remember the last bowl game I have watched. What interest me, though, is the winter and spring work outs that leads to the spring scrimmages.
I am going to upvote you because I don't think your comment warranted a down vote.
I'm with you. If the Bowl Game can't lead to a Title I really couldn't care less if we win or lose. I'd actually prefer we use the extra practices to work on younger players and use them more in a meaningless game to work out the kinks or try some new plays. If that causes us to lose, then whatever, we learned something.
I mean you get paid to play in a bowl game, not to win. The only ones who benefit from a win is the coaching staff and their bonuses.
Foster struggled with mobile QBs the last decade
Corny, yet again, gets mind numbingly conservative in situations where its obvious you to need to put your foot on their throat and end the game.
Fuente with some bad game management to end both halves with the time expiring in the 1st then in the 2nd, not calling a TO to at least see if we can get a booth review on the potential fumble on 4th and 1 followed by uselessly calling a TO later on when Kentucky was likely gonna score anyway leaving us with 1 TO with 15 seconds left instead of two.
Maybe Hamilton will have some solutions for mobile QBs but the coaches need to do a lot of improvement in the offseason, not just the players.
Overall failure of a season. Weakest schedule in P5, and 8-5 was the result. 5-5 vs. P5 & ND. Lost to UVA for the first time in 16 years. 3 late-game losses by the once-mighty LPD.
I'd imagine CJF goes into next season on the hot seat.
But that's just it....this Defense was never a LPD. It just wasn't and hasn't been since we lost all that talent to the NFL a couple of years ago. We love to talk about LPD and the Foster glory years, but that's not this team's reality. They played fairly well relative to the level of talent. But it's a far cry from the LPD squads that used to be a lot more talented.
Most all of this goes back to recruiting. And Fuente, Foster and team just haven't recruited at a high enough level.
Post of the day right there. We aren't there. But we are better than last year for sure. Can we keep it going into next year? That's the question.
Appreciate it, HokieeikoH. I definitely saw an improved team over last year. Yet, even with that improvement (call it the "eye test"), it rings a bit hollow with only going 8-5 vs. the easiest schedule in D1 (and yes, I still call it D1).
We haven't been an LPD defense since at least 2010/11...the erosion of the defense has been glaring since the end of the Beamer era through now.
That's not to say we haven't seen glimpses of ghosts of past LPD defenses.
I think JHam is going to get us back there!
I think the defensive call at the end was right. Bowden was awful all day throwing the ball, no reason to bracket coverages and sacrifice contain and gap integrity. Chatman got beat one on one and Bowden threw a dime.
It's easy to second guess, but you're lying through your teeth if you think we should have been doubling their receivers on that play.
Kentucky has run on everyone since going to Bowden at QB. Just because we know it's happening doesn't mean we are the only team who couldn't stop it. The QB run is the best running play in football because you have a numerical advantage. We aren't the only fucking team who struggles with mobile quarterbacks.
The defensive playcalling in general looked fine to me, but players were consistently out of position. At this point in the season, there's no reason for guys to be hitting the wrong gap, overrunning the pocket, or just missing their assignment.
I just don't think we have the talent right now to execute Foster's defense. We're too small along the front seven, we don't have tremendous talent along the defensive line, and there is very little depth across the entire defense. Granted, it's a coach's job to adjust for that, but I can't help feel like the only way we can improve with the current staff is to really start recruiting well.
Yep, hopefully these TX boys, that huge DL Bailey, and the 2021 class can shake things up with some bigger defensive talent.
Small D lineman was something Fuente brought up in an interview a couple weeks ago. He said it was a point of emphasis going forward to get a little more stout at that position. All respect in the world to Wiles, but it seems he preferred a quicker smaller type, and that is perhaps part of the reason for him being let go.
Nothing sums up the Fuente era more than not trying to get points at the end of the half with a minute left and two timeouts against a team that can't pass
This team hurts the shit out of me. I wish I would just stop caring
Eat me. Please.
I'm so dejected... can't lie
This team is losing its fan base. Boring football. Sad.
Maybe the sting of this loss will help drive this team in the offseason.
Maybe.
If losing the Commonwealth Cup to UVA did not drive this team during the workout this month in bowl preparation, then I will be greatly concerned.
It's not like there have been many CFB players that have stated they don't really take the Bowl Games seriously or anything. The ones going to the NFL don't want to push themselves in risk of injury, hell many have sat out. The ones hoping to increase draft stock will push themselves. Heck, if I was an average player I'd probably hate bowl games since they take away from winter break and family and friends time.
Given how weak our schedule was this season, I don't know how anyone can see this year as anything other than a complete failure. Going by Sagarin, we had the weakest schedule of any P5 team. We've been rebuilding since the end of Fuente's first season. At some point that excuse is no longer valid.
Looking ahead to next season, our schedule again will be one of the easiest in the country. Our most difficult game will be Penn State, but outside of that it is abysmal: Liberty, @ MTSU, North Alabama, and we draw Louisville from the Atlantic. Anything below 10 wins should be the end for Fuente. Anything less than an 11 win season would be a disappointment to me, particularly since we return almost our entire starting lineup.
Let me save everyone some time. Struggle against Liberty but its a win. Double digit loss to Penn St but people will convince themselves it wasn't that bad because Penn St is a top 10 program and we were "close" for a couple of quarters. Two wins against the Little Sisters where everyone thinks its fine but the final score masks some red flags. Ass kicked in the next ACC game. The rest of the season is Coastal roulette where there's no "good" teams but someone has to win by default, we limp to a lackluster 8 wins, and people will convince themselves 2021 will be the year because the TX boys are coming
End of 2021: "well, the Texas boys decommitted, but the recruiting efforts on Jupiter's moon of Ganymede will really benefit."
This ^^ post should go plaid but prolly won't. So much truth.
Listening to the SOS from the coaches about the loss. Blah blah blah
I saw some dropped passes.
In the grand scheme of things this game didn't matter, sure a win would be great, but a win isn't gonna boost recruiting, and heading into the offseason it really doesn't matter. We can play the "we have a long ways to go and everyone needs to bust their ass this offseason" route but that was always going to be the message anyways. Happy NYE TKP, everyone go enjoy it!
8 wins against a high school schedule + (Awful game management x Red zone FGs). + Dropped passes = dwindling expectations for 2020 and the remainder of Fuente's tenure in Blacksburg. I'm not gonna call for his head or anything but expecting anything more than 8-9 wins a year and finishing 2nd in the coastal with him at the helm is becoming exceedingly unrealistic.
I am looking forward to a 9 month break from watching this team find ways to lose games against inferior opponents.
UK wasn't inferior... Hokies were 2 point favorites in Vegas, but most algorithms had UK winning.
You're right which is even more depressing. We're on par with a team that won 3 games in the SEC (vandy, Arkansas, and Missouri).
*I'm looking forward to a 9 month break from watching this team find ways to lose games they are in position to win.
The drops by the WR's were HUGE. In particular the drop by Turner in the red zone and then the drop by Hazelton on 3rd down after the pick which could've sealed the game....this just sucks, I have no optimism for next year the way this team blew it. I'm sure my attitude will change as the year goes on, but this was so disheartening.
Eh, 21 returning starters is pretty much as good as it gets. Especially considering that the oline will contunue to gel. They were busting open some massive wholes today against a good defense.
A pathetic record against a pathetic schedule. That's how I'll remember 2019.
Exactly! If you are happy with mediocre then you have your team! I don't believe the players we have equal the results we got.
Its football. This season will be long forgotten by halfway through next year.
The most important thing now, to me, is to own this loss and go into the offseason with a growing up mentality. I know that nobody wants to hear it, but we were still so young this year. We need to drive our players to hit the weight room hard and actually look forward to a redemptive next season.
Everyone is coming back, we have every reason to want to improve, but it needs to come from the top down so that it's infectious.
We cannot be COMPLETELY boring and quiet. Open up to the media a bit, let the fans in and see that we're out there working and improving.
I think this actually has a huge effect on recruiting, too. Schools like VT (read: non blue blood) cannot afford a "meh" feeling from INSIDE the program (us fans are gonna do what we're gonna do).
We cannot lose a Dematrius Davis and his recruiting for VT. We need to show all of the high ranked Virginia recruits that are considering us that they're not wasting their commitment coming to boring VT, where we might get to play Clemson in the ACC Championship. We need to have some confidence an enough noise to assure those that come to our program that we're going to be competitive every year and be competing.
I'm really disappointed that the Kentucky game was 100% predictable going into the 4th quarter. Let's use that to fuel some passion, confidence, and positive change for next year!
edit: a sentence was hard to read
Whole team blew many opportunities to seal it at the end. Lack of late game execution lost this game.
the whole team??? No!! We must pin the blame on an individual!!! /s
Nah, just a coach. Or two. :)
Get better. Nobody cares about the result do use the loss to improve. Sidenote, would it kill ESPN to abandon the Clemson LSU discussion for three minutes pregame and halftime to actually discuss this game.
Those halftime things must be prerecorded. You can see an empty stadium and people maintaining the field.
FWIW the "young" excuse disappears next year.
Uh...what?
I am racking my brain trying to figure out what exactly Justin Fuente does for this program, or brings to this team, that make him the guy to steer the ship. It doesn't seem to be in-game ANYTHING, it doesn't seem to be recruiting, it doesn't seem to be team leading, it doesn't seem to be face of the program type stuff.
The ceiling, the absolute ceiling, for Virginia Tech Football appears to be winning the Coastal division. 8 wins a year. I find myself having a tough time adjusting to this. And this team doesn't have a bunch of NFL talent, it doesn't have a boatload of incoming players that will make immediate contributions, this team has "been young" for two going on three years, and the coaching staff is remaining in place to call plays. And an unproven, rookie defensive coordinator with less than a year of FBS experience is taking over the defense. Even with starters returning, something about this team does not pass the eye test for me and I don't feel excited about the prospect of 2020.
I don't believe in Fuente one bit. I was done the moment he ran out the clock before halftime
He may be able to take us to a perpetual 7-9 wins per season, but never any better. I want better. He can't manage a clock, his players lack discipline, his players don't execute well, his players don't make clutch plays, his recruiting is average.
I'll keep watching, and I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong, but I just don't see a coach that is going to take us where we want to go.
What I learned is that in two attempts Hooker was horrible in the 2 minute offense. He needs to get better at that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Fuente (who i also want to like) is a QB guru, right?
The worst part of Fuente being a coward going into halftime today was he did the exact same thing in the last game against UVA and netted the exact same result.
No excuse for giving up on scoring opportunities like that and then losing 1 score games.
Learning from mistakes is for suckers who don't have $12M buyouts.
Very frustrating to see a run on 1st down on the last possession of the 1st half when our kicker had just nailed a 54 yard FG. Didn't need to go for a TD, just try to get in position for another 50+ yd FG. With 2 timeouts left and Hooker passing well at that point, why not at least TRY? The same thing happened at least 3 times this season (including lolUva).
Soul crushing loss to a one dimensional cocky team and the 70th ranked recruiting class coming in. Hall of fame DC leaving too. Life is grand
I'm sorry but I hate how people are completely writing off this season and ignoring the improvement from not only the beginning of this season but last season when we had to scratch and claw just to get to six wins. Here's some comparisons between this year and last:
Blowouts(losses by +14)
2018: 5
2019: 1
Average margin of defeat:
2018: 17.8
2019: 11.8
30+ point scored games:
2018: 5
2019: 8
Wins vs winning P5:
2018: 2
2019: 3
One possession losses:
2018:1
2019:3
If I told you after the duke game that we would finish with 8 wins, you wouldn't have believed me, but here we are. Isn't this how a rebuild is supposed to look? Lose by a lot(2018), lose by a little (2019), and hopefully start winning those tight games in 2020. We lost to nd , uva, Kentucky by 17, but if you don't count the last play scores by uva and kentucky, then we lost to 3 teams by a combined 5 points. This team with plenty of fresh/sophs and only losing one senior who started is trending up. Have hope.
Well hell... by 2025, perhaps we can win the coastal again.. maybe 2026 if there are injuries and youth.. woo hoo
I hate to break it to ya but that's how program building works. Look at kentucky, it took Stoops 6-7 years to build the foundation for the program. It took uva four years from a total dumpster fire to coastal winner. It takes time, Fuente has all the pieces to win next year and there are no excuses. My point was don't write off the whole season when there were clear signs of progress.
To me the season has three chapters:
1. The continuation of the 2018 season through the Puke game. I was sure that I wanted Fuente gone by seasons end after that game.
2. The next 7 games (including the ND loss with our 3rd string QB). That 7 game stretch was a heck of a coaching job by Fuente and co. They literally turned it around overnight, and I really believed that the Hard-Smart-Tough culture was beginning to take.
3. The final two games (including the bowl game). These last two games really put a damper on my excitement I had during that 7 game stretch.
I do think there was some progress in spots, but overall it was a disappointing season with the awful schedule we had. I think Fuente needs an ACCCG appearance next season or his seat might get really hot.
The problem I have with this take is that it took UVA 4 years and they started at a much lower level than Fuente did 4 years ago. Fuente came in with the reputation of being an offensive guru and our offense has been terrible pretty much since he arrived. 2016 is looking much more like a fluke than any of the last 3 years. Offensively we have come way short of where we would expect an offensive coach to take us. Especially considering our schedule. Mendenhall has, quite arguably, done more with less in the same amount of time. That's a huge concern. Fuente needs to get this offense figured out immediately, or else. And based on what I've seen thus far, I don't have much hope that's going to happen. Next year I expect our offense to be disappointing, again, and our defense to take a step back without Bud. 7-5 is probably our ceiling unless Cornelson becomes a genius over night or Fuente replaces him with someone who understands how to football.
I don't think UVA/VT is a good comparison for how long anything should take. Fuente brought in Evans and won 10 games and went to the ACCCG. Mendenhall brought in Perkins and went to the ACCCG. Perkins is gone after this year. I'd argue with 21 starters, Tech will be better next year, but UVA, without Perkins, I expect to take a pretty good step back.
Not sure why you think 2016 was a fluke. We won 9 games in 2017 with a QB that wasn't nearly as good. And if 21 starters returning doesn't tell you how young we were last year, I don't know what will.
The fact that 'program building' can be an excuse for Justin Fuente after year 4 is so damn depressing.
Agreed, but let me play devil's advocate for a minute:
1) I have been beating the drum on the 5 year plan for the last four years. So I'm still considering next year a 'program building' year. The results next year should be a good indicator of what Fuente can do.
2) Since we had so, so much turbulence last year suggests that the last vestiges of the Beamer era mostly left last year, in year 3. Which leads to:
3) Some coaches can come in and reset the culture in year 1, like Bronco, who inherited a dumpster fire at LOLUVA, or like Taggart tried to do at FSU. Fuente held onto the Beamer era for the first two years of his tenure, so - unlike Bronco - he put his major program changes on hold until year 3. This puts him behind a 4- or 5- year plan, since his bona fide year 1 would have been last year or this year.
If you show up and clean house, 4 years works. If you hold onto the last era of the program, it'll put you behind by about as much as you wait to rebuild the whole house like you want. I think part of what made the transition from Beamer so successful was that Fuente stayed the course for the first two years, and produced results that I was happy with at the time. But that means we're now slogging through the real tough transition years later than we wanted.
So I think next year we should be able to tell who we are now. And I hate to say it but now I'm thinking it'll be year 6 before we really know what this era of Hokie ball will be able to achieve.
I see what you're saying, but I so wholeheartedly disagree. That said, I would love you to be my lawyer.
I'm not sure I totally agree, but I do like the way you've stated it. Take your leg
Yeah, there's a reason there's an adage "You never want to follow a legend...." I bet whoever takes over New England
when Bellicheck retires is going to get run out of town if they don't get a Super Bowl in 3 years.
who's winning the coastal next year? I think VT will be the preseason favorite. Maybe UNC because media.
Next year, you say? In that case, I heard da U will be bak.
The results of this season were exactly "Meh."
We had a so-so record against an extremely easy schedule, capped off by choking in the 4th Q to our in-state rival and a middling SEC team.
While there were some bright spots, the last 2 games, especially left me with some very mixed feelings about the Coaching Staff.
Fuente has a huge tendency to be over conservative and his Game Management skills are questionable at best. I see more 4th quarter losses in our future. Corny is markedly inconsistent and seems to be totally tone-deaf to the flow of the game for huge streches.
On the Defensive side, everything is essentially a question mark. I like some of the chatter about potential scheme changes by JH, it remains to be seen whether he can produce.
A few things are for sure, Youth won't be a viable excuse next year with nearly every starter back and 8 wins isn't going to impress anybody.
Next year is the year for Fuente to show whether he has what it takes to get us to another level or just be an ACC also-ran perennially.
Even Navy was trying to score more points with 2 to go in the first!
My new iPhone 11 came *this* close to being smashed into the floor or the Sony TV there at the end. So I reluctantly say the D was culpable but the O left a lot on the table with series throw aways and terrible clock/game management. Not a Fu hater but not a Fu fan anymore.
1)I thought the play calling on offense to open the game was head scratching.
2)The team played a good game going forward but the offense in the 3rd quarter was too conservative. We needed touchdowns, not FGs and I knew that would bite us.
3)Timing was off on a lot of the throws, either the receivers dropped the pass, or the passes were just out of reach. HH was off as were the WRs.
4)Bud called a good game. A lot of poor angled by the players and poor tackling hurt our effort going down the stretch.
Don't know who to finger point for this loss. Mistakes all around added up to us losing by a point (not counting the horrid last 3 plays).
I think Fuente over analyzes things during the game, I think that last FG, when we were 4th and 2, we should have went for it. That field goal was meaningless. We fail to get it, then we have pinned them back 90 yards.
*shrug* all of this is what it is.
At least we aren't Miami.
At least we aren't Miami/FSU
Correct... they both have a bunch of 4 star players coming in to help.
Miami/FSU already have a bunch of 4 star players on their rosters. Adding more won't help much.
Looks like TKP could print up some "we scored more than 30 on Kentucky" shirts and there would be buyers
Well, people bought the "Mission Accomplished" shirts.
Me right now:
I am sure it has been said before, but I cannot escape the fact that our offense scored more points on UK than any other team this season, with zero turnovers until the last ridiculous play. This loss was on the defense, who played valiantly but simply couldn't shut down Bowden enough to win. Obviously he is a dynamic athlete who will be playing on Sundays next year. It's a shame that Bud's kryptonite had to happen in his last two games, but I look forward to seeing what a young and hungry JH at DC does next year with a seasoned defense and two stellar cornerbacks
I was at the game today and the guy sitting next to me says (after we had one of those head scratching 3 and outs), "We just have to make it hard on ourselves". That pretty much sums up this season.
Everyone wants us to be Clemson. Follow their blueprint and whatnot. Dabo has done two things in particular that Fuente hasn't. He recruited really well right off the bat and he surrounded himself with great coaches. If we're going to try following Clemson's blueprint we should find better coaches and recruit better.
Yes, let's also score more touchdowns.
And maybe prevent more too
Yes that and more four verts. (This isn't directed at you.)
It's just crazy enough that it might work.
Uh...yeah no shit lol. Those are like the two fundamental pillars of football. Pretty much all every team that has success over an extended period of time has those two things. Not unique to Clemson.
I mean, we should be able to do at least one of those. I don't think we're doing either, TBH. We're routinely out coached and our recruiting isn't much to write home about. I just want Whit to recognize that our coaching staff isn't up to snuff. If they're not going to recruit at an elite level they damn well better coach at one and as far as I can tell they're doing neither
Well go and donate a few million to the Athletic Department for coaches then.....
I'm working on that plan. As it turns out, making millions of dollars takes time. Check back with me in 30 years or so
So you want 30 years but Fuente only gets 5? What's the hold up?
I mean, football might not even be around then, at least not in the tackle format.
I haven't seen it mentioned here but it took two NFL level throws and grabs to score our first two touchdowns. Otherwise we would've settled for field goals. Our first field goal was spotted to us off of rare back to back 15 yard penalties. Us scoring more on them than any other team this year isn't a very fair assessment (combined with the fact that we are the best offense they faced all year).
On offense the players made some incredible plays when they needed to and the coaches drew up great plays that the players didn't execute (open drops). But we don't have the synergy between the two that we need to be a top 20 team.
Not sure what the red zone numbers say, but we seem to be a great offense between the 20s.
I'm sure someone with more time can pull the data and confirm or deny this random thought of mine.
Defensively I think we missed Wiles. The line was not as aggressive as it should've been and missed several tackles they usually make.
Also where tf was Dax. I watched Tisdale get bulldozed multiple times but the only time I really saw Dax was when the camera panned to the sidelines. In a game that's so run heavy idk why our biggest linebackers not in the game.
I heard Dax had a knee injury...can anyone confirm?
We all should've sat down on the couch with a handle of bourbon, rewatched the UVA game, and saved ourselves the trouble.
Just watched the game. I'll keep it short. Fuente's game management/coaching has plateaued; it has stalled with his inability to address his over-conservatism. The players definitely had various issues throughout the game; however, Fuente's decision making ability (or lack thereof) gives the team little to no wiggle room in a close game. Getting tired of seeing it week after week. However, I'm a Hokie; therefore, I'll relax over the offseason and 'hope' for a better product next year. I do believe we have the right players . . . we'll see what Fuente does with his buddies.
They won they are are better. Get used to it.
They won, but they aren't better, their QB/WR put his shoulder into one of our coaches and punched our DT without repercussions. Mark Stoops and the rest of the university is classless.
They're SEC. It just means more.
Did you see the Hokie players light into KY players at CMS? Totally classless action by a small group of our guys, including use of the "N" word and calling them pussies. That "started" the whole bad blood/sniping that took place in the stadium before the game and apparently motivated the KY team.
A bad look for sure, but it's a completely different scenario when Bowden punches Crawford inside the stadium...on the field...where the game is going to be played just outside the arbitrary "hour before the game" (apparently it's The Purge up until an hour before than game then everyone has to mind their P's and Q's). Not justifying how our players acted or the words used, but I don't think the two are comparable.
Was on the field, and that should have been sufficient. But I'd rather have let him play and beaten him on the field.
Oh I agree. I was hoping the D would come out jacked up and ready to shut him down but....
Just finished watching the game on DVR without any idea of the outcome until 5 minutes ago. Gotta say, this is literally the most pissed off I've been about a VT loss in 27 years of being a fan. So please understand, if not excuse, the following rant.
To find out right before kickoff that their douchbag WR/QB PUNCHED OUR PLAYER in the face before the game, but still somehow played in the game, gave me a sick feeling to start the game. And then to watch that D-Bag literally humiliate our defense for 3 and 1/2 quarters, until we finally figured out to stop playing normal football against him, crushed my soul as a VT fan.
As, you know, a non-football coach, I would never have thought to stop trying to get penetration and just play a shell defense. But seeing it take Bud Foster about 50 minutes of football to figure it out is like realizing your dad can't pick up heavy things any more. Just crushing. Throw in the WR drops, the missed arm tackles on a 200-pound QB, and the absolutely inexplicable decision not to challenge what looked like a potential fumble by the Kentucky Douchbag QB on 4th down of the last drive makes me...god I hate to say it...for the first time in 27 years, embarrassed to be a Virginia Tech fan.
As a last bit of pettiness, watching our defensive players repeatedly helping up the Kentucky DB QB after runs late in the game when he was clearly running out of gas made me sick. It means our players are more interested in being "good sports" to the guy who PUNCHED THEIR TEAMMATE IN THE FACE BEFORE THE GAME than winning a fucking football game.
I'm the biggest VT football fan I know (although by TKP standards, I'm probably only average). And I'm an optimist-leaning realist. But this game was a punch to the gut to my VT fandom. Like a couple of pegs knocked down of a gut punch. At this point, I don't give a fuck about the late signing period, or a frog's fat ass about spring football. Or even the 2020 opener. I'm gonna start paying attention again when we're back in the top-15. If that never happens under Fuente, then I'm certainly not going to miss watching his teams.
Happy New Year. A couple of things. First, I was the same way 1 hour post game. Give it time and some alcohol, the anger will subside. Two, I have never heard "frogs fat ass" before and I plan to use it as often as possible. Have a leg!
"I don't give a frog's fat ass!" Clark Griswold. National lampoons vacation.
Agreed. I'm just about done with Fuente. I just don't think he gets it frankly. And it's a crying shame but Bud was just flat out coached. Love him and all he's done for VT, but the time is ripe for him to hang it up. That was one of the most embarrassing VT defensive efforts I have ever seen. Bud just couldn't come up with any answers at all. Sad for him to go out like that, and CornFu can't figure out the offense or game manage well enough to ice the game. But that's where we are right now.
This one is really on the offense and the defense. Both sides did a lot of good things. Both also had multiple opportunities to put it away and just could not come through. Fuente, Corny, and Bud all share some responsibility too. I literally can't remember the last time that it was this hard to try to isolate the blame. That's why opinions are all over the place.
Personally, I was pissed about the FG instead of going for it, pissed about a few of the calls (PI, fumble, non-review of their non-completion), pissed that the D couldn't give Bud one final stop. Pissed I had to walk back to the car with a group that has seen way too many games like this when the games were thoroughly winnable and we didn't win. I am ready for a break and think I will tune back in during kickoff week in August. I agree with the other poster that this should be fun, and taking a break may ensure that it is next year.
The record this year was disappointing. The game yesterday was disappointing. It is a long season and it is hard to remember all of it. One thing is that they turned the season around after an absolutely terrible start. The team stuck together and turned the season around. I think everyone would be feeling a little bit better about the season and the future if we held on yesterday and got the stop on UK's last drive.
Next year is a year that excuses about youth, etc. end. We potentially have all but 1 starter returning to this team, we have a young players that played A LOT this year that get an offseason to put on some weight and gain some strength (Nester, Hudson, King, Pollard, Kindricks, etc.), and Hoffman is eligible. Next year this team needs to take a BIG step and win the division.
Agree, there are no excuses for not winning the Coastal in 2020.
UVA will definitely take a big step back, Da U is a mess with no clear plan at QB, Duke should be on a similar level, GT is still 1-2 years away from really competing, UNC and Pitt should be the main competition in the Division and both are very beatable.
Other than PSU, our OOC is laughable. Anything less than 9-3 with a Coastal Championship really should not be acceptable.
Yes. Agreed. Next year is the "shine up the pitchforks if we don't win the Coastal" year IMO. Fuente has had time. The team will be experienced. He's got to deliver.
Am I the only one who has come to expect the VT football team to lose the neutral site game every time? I mean, I wasn't surprised in the slightest yesterday. I stopped going to bowls altogether (minus the abomination of a military bowl last year). It's getting very hard to motivate myself when I'm convinced the hokies will blow it regardless of the team they play.
I can't be the only one THIS jaded, am I?
I used to think it was me, because every time I traveled with the team we lost. (I'm not superstitious, but I'm a little stitious when it comes to Hokie FB.) Then I realized, I don't go to that many neutral site games. But to be fair to the little stition, we haven't won a neutral site game I have attended.
These stats probably aren't going to make you feel better, but you should have been jaded about neutral site games long before the game against Kentucky.
- Since 2003, VT has lost a neutral site game in every season except for 2014 and 2015 (VT went 7-6 in both of those seasons and the bowl game was the only neutral site game in each).
- Since joining the ACC, VT has gone 11-19 (.367) in neutral site games. VT has gone 9-16 (.360) against P5 teams and- this is a really fun part- 2-3 (.400) against G5 teams.
- In the ACC under Beamer, VT went 9-14 (.391) in neutral site games, 7-12 (.368) against P5 and 2-2 (.500) against G5.
- Under Fuente, VT has gone 2-5 (.286) in neutral site games, 2-4 (.333) against P5 and 0-1 (.000) against G5.
There are many factors that aren't fully accounted for in these stats but regardless we've been losing neutral site games at a similar rate for a long time now.
You know, I am feeling a little meh. But even two years ago, reasonable people were saying 2020 was a season where things projected to be hitting stride. I think if we get 10 wins or more and go to the ACC champ next year we will have a shot at getting our recruiting back to where it needs to be.
Things aren't all great, but I really don't see how us cleaning house now would result in a better coach. Every program in the country wants a Dabo Sweeney, but guess what, there's only one out there right now, and they are impossible to predict. Clemson got lucky. Fuente checks a lot of boxes for us in terms of representing the values of VT and he has managed a pretty good record through a re-build. I dont want to settle for 8 to 9 seasons as our cap, but I'm pretty sure Fuente doesn't either. This season started out poorly, but through it all this team did show improvement from last year in nearly every category. Thats what counts, and I fully support our coach through to next season.
Well-stated.
I actually like the direction we're going on. I knew last year was going to be a shit show of a season because we were basically running with a senior high school team. This year, I expected and saw a lot of improvements over last year. Last year it seemed like every offensive drive was a struggle to score. This year we scored a bunch of points but didnt capitalize when we needed to.
I think our offense showed flashes of being great. Next year, we have young, experienced and talented OLine, QB, WRs, TEs and RBs. Our defense was the problem for a good part of the season, mostly because our DLine wasnt solid enough to pressure without blitzing and because of missed assignments. Another year in the weight room and with the added experience and offseason and I think both those areas should improve significantly next year.
I think the bar for 2020 & 2021 is 10 wins and the Coastal. Anything less than that will be a disappointment to me. I fully expect to beat PSU. UNC and Pitt should be our only real challenges next year and we definitely have the talent to win both of those.
I think our 2021 recruiting class has the potential to be a program elevator for us. DD looks great and if he brings a few highly rated guys with him, I think it sets us up for elevated success 2022 on.
I agree with the bulk of your post. Just to provide actual stats:
2018 we were 60th in PPG with 29.8
2019 we were 50th in PPG with 30.8
In 2018 we were 46th in offensive efficiency
In 2019 we were 58th in offensive efficiency
In 2018 we were 39th in YPG with 428.2 ypg
In 2019 we were 89th in YPG with 385.2 ypg
We all expected a markable improvement on offense from last year to this year, and even with a softer schedule and additional year of experience, we still struggled. Our OL should be better, and I'm hoping we get more consistent WR and QB play, but we've got a ways to go to for our offense to be 'great'
Points per play improved by about .05 points per play. Not for nothing, we ran 67 fewer play on offense this year.
Think about how quick the defense got off the field last year and not for the reason you would want your defense to get off the field. Although I would think offensive efficiency would account for this to some extent, however the first 4 games don't do that number any favors.
I agree offense wasn't "great" this year.
I appreciate the stats but something to point out thats just as important is that those stats include Willis as QB in the first few games. While we cannot discount those from season stats, I think we can all agree that when HH took over, the offense ran a lot smoother. Even the announcers for the bowl game had a graphic showing since HH became the starter the Offense's ppg avg would have been good enough for 3rd best in ACC. Below are some stats from cfbstats showing VT vs P5 oppenents only (helps filter out some of RW games )
PPG:
2019: 32.4
2018: 24.5
Total Offense
2019: 393 yds
2018: 380 yds
Total Rushing:
2019: 180 yds/game
2018: 143 yds/game
When eliminating the G5 opponents and some of the games that RW started in 2019, the differences between this year and last year become more obvious. I expect/hope for this trend to continue in 2020 with HH as the starter for the full season.
There is no doubt the offense got better with HH than it was with Willis, and should improve next year, but Willis was our reality. The coaches started him for a quarter of the season, and we decided to go with that approach to offense. It seems silly to cherry-pick out the 'bad' stats when we still have the same coaches making personnel and offensive strategy decisions on staff
I take solace in the fact that no ACC QB that beat us this year will be back, as Brown has entered the portal and Perkins and Harris have exhausted their eligibility.
Only N'Kosi Perry and Kenny Pickett remain after two years as ACC quarterbacks who've beaten Tech.