OT: Astros Fallout Thread

Waiting to hear what happens to Beltran and Cora, as they are believed to be the master minds of the scheme according to the report.

Probably the biggest TEAM scandal in baseball since the Black Sox.

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Waiting to hear what happens to Beltran

Of course my Mets will find a way to disappoint me in something that didn't even concern them

Nothing will happen to Beltran.

Cora is going to get a hefty suspension and is likely already fired, just awaiting on the announcement.

I would guess it'll be a while before any of the involved work for a MLB team again. They'll get MLB's version of the show-clause put on them, and effectively get barred from the league like Kaepernick was.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Like they should

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

i understand what you're getting at but i also think the kaepernick comparison is just as likely to be Misconstrued On The Internet

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

It certainly seems like Cora is going to get a life time ban.

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Why is Cora's suspension going to be worse than Hinch and Co.?

According to the report on the investigation, Cora was the one who came up with the idea and how to implement it, etc.

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Also he is all but fired from the Red Sox. People are just waiting for the confirmation.

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These guys are getting banned for cheating. This is nothing like what Kap has had to deal with.

ding ding ding ding i was right! he's (key edit: not) making any statements about the underlying reason why, but he's saying kaepernick was effectively blackballed and these guys will be too.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Nothing will happen to Beltran

This aged well.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

It's a harsh penalty, but I'm not sure how the players are getting off so easy. They actively cheated and knew they were doing wrong so much so that they hid their monitor when they suspected an opposing pitcher of picking up on their scheme.

What happens to these hitters next year? How long until they get a fastball between the numbers? How often does that happen?

I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say that they may have ended some pitchers careers be cheating. This is bad. If Bonds, Clemens, Palmero, etc. are given the asterisk treatment for steroids, every player on the 2017 Astros team should as well.

I'm not sure what more the MLB could really do but it seems a bit short the hold the manager and GM accountable when the actual act was devised and carried out by the players themselves.

I think it's harder to decipher who was directly involved and who wasn't. Also, how many people went along with it because they were forced too. That's the gray area. I get it.

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I think you raise good points. In addition, I bet the MLBPA was very involved and flexed their muscle a bit. This all just seems hollow when the actual people who were benefiting from breaking the rules (and won a WS while doing so) will see no discipline from MLB.

Agreed. I'm a little confused as to why posters are demonizing Hinch so badly on here when the reports indicate that he had much less to do with it than the players and Cora.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

He and the GM are technically the head of the fish. They both could have squashed this, but they didn't.

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I completely agree that neither is innocent or deserves to get off Scot-free but I can't quite understand statements like, "AJ Hinch cheated his way to a championship" either, as that seems specifically bitter toward him. The cheating was a collective effort and required Hinch and Ludnow to look the other way, but it seems more accurate just to say, "the Astros cheated their way to a championship."

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Hitch broke the tv twice. They just replace them

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

They tacitly approved. As the leaders of that team, either one could have stopped or prevented the cheating. They knew about it, actively ignored the situation, and purposely allowed it to continue so that they could win. By knowing about it and not doing anything, they empowered the perpetrators.

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I have no proof, but I think it's safe to say that more teams than just the Astros and Red Sox have been using technology in ways that would be contrary to MLB rules.

which is why Cora is going to get hit hard. I wouldn't be surprised at a indefinite to lifetime ban.

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Yup. I remember the Blue Jays getting accused several years ago when Bautista was regular threat... he wasn't much of a threat once the accusations got louder.

I honestly think the funniest part of all of this is Verlander is the first person on twitter calling out "cheaters" whether it be Roids, Pine tar, juiced baseballs.

I guess he fell off his high horse...seems to be pretty quiet since his team got caught.

He wasn't the one cheating

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

You're right.....he had no idea what was going on and thought the team was just bored "beating on the trash cans" while in the dug out.

Hes a pitcher how's the banging of a trash can gonna help him when he's pitching?

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

because his hitters have to score more runs than he gives up. that's kinda the basic premise of the game.

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Yes but that doesn't make him a cheater if the astros win 1-0

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

You still have to pitch good even if the offense is cheating. What if the offense cant hit the ball that game? The pitcher has to still give a 100% out their

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

You're going to sit there and defend Verlander who is in the dug out 4-5 days straight while his team is banging on trash cans CHEATING and say because it doesn't directly affect what he does he is good to go and clear? He knew exactly what was going on and said nothing.

That's like saying Hinch doesn't even play the game why did he get fired?

So every pitcher should get cut from the team for cause the over side of the team cheated? Ok

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

I'll be sure to defend Alabama's defence if their offense cheated and gets caught

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Somewhere dcwilson just caught himself smiling but wasn't sure why

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

his team cheated on way to getting that 1 run, no? thus, he benefited from his team's cheating to get that win. It seems he was in the know (hard to believe if he wasn't) and made several vocal tweets and messages about fairness in the game. He also openly complained about the Yankees accusations (which lead to this punishment).

Did he actively cheat? He wasn't in a position to stop the cheating, but he did benefit. he got a numerous wins and WS ring. He's not a cheater, but he was hypocritical in the way he called out fairness while getting benefit in one of the most unfair ways possible.

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Yeah i agree about him saying that is pretty hypocritical

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

I think you have to be careful here. Every player in the clubhouse knew but to come out and rat out not only your teammates, but your manager and GM, is probably not the best career move. That kinda stuff is how you get blackballed.

In a perfectly ethical world, Verlander should've said something. I just don't think reality is that clean.

There's a reason this whole thing broke by a former pitcher spilling the beans.

Fuck it he's got a ring and has a really beautiful and successful wife ๐Ÿ˜‚

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

He is/was also pretty highly respected and trusted among his peers. That kinda stuff is important to people. If he would've ratted everyone out he would be an outcast in every other clubhouse he ever stepped foot in. Even if the rest of the MLB thinks the Astros were wrong to do this, I think the stain of being the whistle-blower would stick everywhere.

Yeah i know but he doesn't need to play baseball anymore to have a good retirement life

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

What he needs to do and wants to do are two very different things. He has tons of egg on his face right now and he will need to answer for that.

I cannot justify cheating nor can I justify keeping quiet about the cheating. But I can at least understand why he felt like he couldn't say anything. I am fascinated to hear what the Astros players are going to say when the inevitably have to talk.

Shun.

Oh, wait. Wrong site.

(You should still provide a pic anyways.)

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I'm not saying he should of came out. all I said was I find humor in the fact that since 2017 Verlander has something to say on twitter about every other player in the league getting caught up in a cheating scandal. Heck he even had a TON to say about the rumor of a juiced ball, which was this year.

Since he didnt step up (which I get why) you should probably sit back and not throw stones. You come out looking like a clown on the back end.

I agree with you there. It will be interesting to see what the players say in the coming weeks/months. They're all eventually going to have to talk about it.

My guess is you'll see the pitchers separate themselves from it all. I think they'll basically say that they knew but did not condone it. That it was all the offensive players thing and they just turned the other way and worried about their jobs. They'll also likely say they were afraid to say anything for the reasons I've already mentioned. None of them will offer to give back their WS rings though.

Wow. Crazy. Makes me feel all the better that the Nationals beat them to win the WS this year

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Im pretty sure the nats will be caught in the next couple years

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

I mean maybe. But so far there is one common thread in all this and its name is Alex Cora.

There are also reports out there that other team execs think this punishment is not enough. I don't think that sentiment would be there if everyone else was in on this too.

I think every team is pushing the boundaries somewhere to gain an advantage. What the Astros was beyond that.

It goes pass cora over half the league is doing it astros and red sox just got snitched on

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

You have no proof of this.

Per Buster Olney:

Doesn't that seem to indicate other teams feel like they were being cheated? Again, if other teams were doing this don't you think this sentiment that the punishment wasn't enough wouldn't exist? Don't you think the Astros would be going down kicking and screaming at this instead of firing their manager and GM?

You'll see.

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Why wouldn't that sentiment exist? Olney's tweet gives no indication of how many teams are complaining about the punishment. We don't know if its all the other teams or maybe just a handful. And why would the Astros necessarily go down kicking and screaming even if they had firsthand knowledge of other teams doing it? As stated, the punishment really isn't that bad. A manager and GM can be replaced, their salaries are about equal to the fine, no players are being punished, and it seems very unlikely the WS title would be stripped. So why get every other MLB team to hate you for outing them if you get off relatively unscathed?

I am not interested in firing out baseless accusations, but I think it would be a bit naive to think NO other teams were doing something like this in some fashion. Trying to get an edge by skirting the rules has existed since the moment baseball started.

I'm not saying no other teams were doing something similar. I mean, the Red Sox are currently being investigated for almost the same thing and they've been dinged before for with the smart watch stuff.

But Primus is implying that most, if not all, teams are doing this. There's a big difference between no teams and most teams.

If this was something prevalent throughout the sport, you would think the Astros would know that and would be pissed that they got made an example of.

I also think there's a big difference between trying to gain an edge and flat out cheating. MLB sent out memos to teams after the first Red Sox sign stealing controversy saying that any further effort to steal signs using technology would be severely punished in the future. The Astros obviously flat out ignored that warning.

Furthermore, teams have suspected this from the Astros for awhile now and when Houston has been confronted with those accusations they basically scoffed at them and told their accusers they were crazy.

$5m fine is max allowed by mlb bylaws. Crane just outmaneuvered the league on this one.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Or they won't.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Or they will

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Like 60% of the league will one day when other teams get snitched on by other teams and it will all come full circle

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Please feel free to show proof, or even rumors, of the Nats cheating. Something with a little more substance than saying "like sixty percent of the league..."

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Astros and the Red Sox aren't gonna be the only teams that get in trouble for this

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Man y'all are getting sucked into a back and forth with an Astros fan who openly said in the other thread he didn't care that his team was caught cheating.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Tbh i would love if tech cheated to win a championship cause a lot of university's do

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

We got no chance in hell to win a championship without cheating

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Yall would sit here and not bat an eyelash if tech did๐Ÿ˜‚

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Keep digging that hole man, this is quality excuse-making

If you want level-headed opinions, don't go on a message board or sports forums

Take a breather.

This comment is different, because now you're projecting and telling other people what they would think, and using that to justify your position.

I know im good now i just wanna protect my only team championship ๐Ÿ˜‚

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Lord knows Tottenham ain't gonna get me one๐Ÿ˜‚

Throw that Bob Marley wannabe motherfucker outta here. Maynard James Keenan. 1991

Maybe...but I'd still be, at the very least, slightly embarrassed. Coming from a Nats fan who acknowledges we caught lightening in a bottle.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

As a Red Sox fan, if Cora isn't fired within the week heads should roll.

Agreed. I want Big Papi back in Boston managing less than a year after getting shot.

Also hoping Tek gets promoted to a coaching position but who knows at this point. It really depends on who comes up as complicit in all this as to how well the house gets cleaned.

It's a chance for Chaim to get his guys in as well. Could also lead to a "justification" for getting rid of Mookie....

Just announced, he and the team have mutually agreed to part ways

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I'm surprised the GM and manager get suspended/fired; yet the players got nothing. Granted, there might not have been enough evidence of who participated in the scheme. However the individual(s) who were LITERALLY BANGING ON THE FREAKING TRASH CAN, get nothing? Kudos to Hinch for not ratting on the players who were involved. It was said in the report that the players removed the monitor from the wall during the game to avoid getting caught at one point. This is Chicago Black Sox levels of misconduct. A GM/Manger lose their careers potentially; however, the players keep rings, careers, and get off with not even a slap on the wrist. Shameful...

via GIPHY

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

The Orioles hired Mike Elias as their GM from the Astros organization. He was the Assistant GM under Luhnow and even though Elias has not been implicated in any of this (and honestly, not sure how he isn't), I am wondering if his accomplishments were artificially inflated because of how Houston operated.

I think there are a lot of guys that may have gained/lost money that are not with the Astros.

Think about that year, Altuve won the MVP with Aaron Judge 2nd. Do you think Judge winning an MVP as a rookie might have been worth some $$ to him. I sure do. Is Altuve a landslide MVP winner without cheating?

Or guys like Kershaw that is an all world talent, but has the one mark that he doesn't have a WS (or Dave Roberts, the Dodgers manager for that matter)

Do they win in 2017 if the Astros arn't cheating. Could be. Kershaw blew a big lead in Game 5

think about the minor leaguers or bullpen pitchers trying to get by and then getting shelled because they faced a bunch of cheaters. These are players barely getting by professionally who may have had their careers ended because of this.

Well not to be a booger McFarland but if the Orioles were cheating this season then damn they suck

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Just to clarify, I do not think the Orioles cheated last year. I do think that he probably knew that the cheating was going on in the Astros organization. On top of that, the O's saw what the Astros did and wanted to follow the same blueprint - and that blueprint seems to include cheating, so maybe he isn't as good as we thought he was at his job.

I'm pretty sure if the O's were cheating like this Chris Davis wouldn't still have that abysmal batting average.

This sucks.

Carlos Beltran is out as manager of the Mets

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Man the Mets are a hot mess. I bet Beltran didn't think his name would be released.

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The question everyone really wants answered:

When do the Atlanta Braves win it all again?

Here's to the Army and Navy and the battles they have won; here's to America's colors, the colors that never run - Wang Chi

May the wings of liberty never lose a feather. - Jack Burton

2020 if they acquire a decent 3b.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

If this is true, and Altuve hit a homerun off of our closer to get to the WS last fall, then I'm pissed off!!!! If they find this is true, the whole team needs to be suspended, and the championship from 2017 needs to be stripped. This is beyond sign stealing from second base. #CheatingMFers

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

there's chatter that that isn't beltran's niece but actually a current player burner account too

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yeah I read that too. He did and interview and said he didn't want his shirt off because he was shy, and because his wife would get mad...bish please ๐Ÿ™„

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

Not that I want to defend Astros players at all, but that's confetti on his chest. I saw that pic and one next to it of him doing an on field interview. The piece was in the same place on his chest. Just a piece of gold confetti

Not trying to go back and forth or anything, but a piece of confetti sticks on his chest from the field, to the locker room? Keep in mind that confetti while on the field had a wire underneath it?.....call me a crazy if you want, but, yeah...gonna call BS on that one

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

Idk how to embed properly through mobile so sorry if you have to click to actually see the tweet. But I think this proves my point

Yup. That "wire" is just a longer metal necklace he was wearing.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Thanks. Yeah that's the tweet.

If that picture wasn't doctored, then I stand corrected.

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

Shit is hitting the fan

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Did someone say baseball Fallout?

The punishment for the Astros was waaay to light if they get to keep their Championship.

Then again, if they're stripped of it, then the Dodgers can lay claim. Let em keep it

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Well, it is 2017 and 2018 that the Dodgers lost to cheaters in the WS. Terrible timing for them.

I'm just glad the Nats used a way over-protective sign scheme that was like the Navajo language in WWII.

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Yep. Even more happy now, yet again that the Nationals beat them!

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

MLB Players Union is to strong. They would get crushed by them.

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The fact the players were the main source of the cheating but that the league is giving them immunity for spilling the beans is next level dumb these players should be getting serious punishment

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

aren't the reports saying Cora was the main source?

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All the ones I have read are citing that the league is granting immunity to players that speak up

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

which seems like the right move, no? if you want to eradicate this style of cheating, ban the "main source" (i.e., Cora) and give immunity to the players that provide information to determine the spread of the problem.

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I disagree Chazz, I feel like in reality the only way to get the truth was to grant immunity; however, I hate that the people actually perpetrating the act on the field, get off scot-free. I can't stop thinking about those minor league players, or those fringe players, whose careers and thus family lives were affected by this. I think about the fans of opposing teams who had to see their team lose to a bunch of cheaters, I hate how these cheaters got huge contracts off of the back of this scandal. It just leaves such a sour taste in my mouth as a baseball fan. Like pro football, I'm losing a lot of respect for many American sports...
#EndOfSoapboxRant

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

that's fair. There were a lot of other players damaged by their actions.

Kershaw may still be dominant today in a world the Astros don't cheat.

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Cora and Beltran were the masterminds, apparently.

I'm sure it's purely coincidental they were the 2 affiliated with the team who were now managing other teams.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I think the first commenter on the below link got this right:

We didn't look into this during the investigation, therefore we were unable to find any evidence of such an assistive device

MLB Found No Evidence Of Wearable Devices During Astros Investigation

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty