It's not that difficult to handle this situation either. Just put out a statement saying you support the movement, reach out to your players, and just say 'I'm listening.' It's not that hard to avoid a PR disaster.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
In my short career, I've found that it's almost always best to listen (regardless of how high or low the tensions are) and never a good idea to put your foot in your mouth.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Per twitter, Norvell wanted to hold a meeting today to clear things up and players boycotted the meeting as well. Couldn't begin your tenure in a much worse fashion.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
The striking part of this is quite fascinating... On one hand, these players can't unionize, so they risk losing their 'jobs' (aka scholarships) if they don't play. But they can't just be replaced either; not even a blue blood like FSU could replace 85 scholarship athletes (assuming the NCAA allowed them to).
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Missouri had a similar strike threat a few years ago, but of course in that case the cause of the strike wasn't the coach himself so we're in uncharted territory here.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Norvell will purge the more natural way. He has a pretty open transfer portal now with which to work. He also can't fall out of bed and not step on a 4 star player in his own state. He will get rid of the dudes that aren't his guys- much like Fu has, except this will be more accelerated. In 3 years, he will be challenging Clemson.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Agree with that until the last sentence. His resume isn't as good as a lot of people think, his offenses haven't exactly been challenged by AAC defenses and he hadn't fielded a half decent defense until last season. I have no doubt they can beat the other Atlantic teams in year 3 but Clemson is another level of elite
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think you and DC both have some good points. I think we 'challenged' Clemson in 2016, so it's not unfair to think that FSU could be three years away from playing them tight.
That said, it's really difficult to separate Norvell's success from Fuente's success at Memphis. It's kind of interesting; Fuente rebuilt a program at Memphis, but seemed to struggle with coming into VT and 'just taking over.' Norvell is in the opposite situation - he 'just took over' Fuente's Memphis team, and now he going to a program that is stuck close to the basement and doing a rebuild for the first time in his career. It will be interesting to compare their two careers 5 years down the road.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
#FSU AD David Coburn on the BOT call right now. Confirms that football had a team meeting this morning. He described the meeting as open and candid and that it went well.— Bob Ferrante (@BobFerrante) June 4, 2020
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If this is true, how on earth do you continue as head coach after being caught in a lie like this?
Between this, Narduzzi stepping in it the other day, and the mess that happened with Clemson earlier in the week, its interesting to see some of the muck rising to the surface from people who have been tasked to be the leaders of our kids.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Yep, and that was Notre Dame's- not the mobs- decision to make. That's my point. If you think there aren't resume embellishments among coaches now, you would be surprised.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I am surprised. With the amount of data and record keeping done over the last two decades, it's pretty hard to lie about what schools you coached at, what your title was, what your record was, etc.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
There's resume embellishments, and then there's claiming a university degree that you do not have. Saying that you played and earned varsity letters when you didn't, that's a bit more than an embellishment, especially when you're trying for a football job. Claiming that you earned a master's degree when you didn't, that's a flat out lie.
And TBH, he resigned, he wasn't fired. But he was going to be fired if he hadn't resigned.
I'm not defending O Leary- at all.... I'm saying that his deal was between him and ND... a school that chose to keep a coach that presided over a practice where a videographer was killed. Whose to say that if ND called a press conference and stated that they spoke with O Leary and decided to keep him and are comfortable with that? If he went 10-1 the next year, it would have been water under the bridge. O Leary went on to coach in a NY6 bowl, so it didn't ruin his career by any stretch.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
IF, big IF, firing is done, it would technically be with cause, if the school considers lying a for cause firing. Florida did with one of their former coaches recently.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
He sent an identical "personal" (form letter) message to each athlete. Wasn't really so bad, except for mischaracterizing it. Eeeesh. I don't get the attempt to pretend it's personal, and that he's driving. Can you do a form letter while you're driving?
The mass text that Florida State head football coach Mike Norvell sent to his team has been revealed on social media.
An image of the message, identical to each player except for the name of the player at the beginning, shows exactly what Norvell said to his team about the racial injustice and inequality issues that the country has been battling the last few weeks.
The text, along with a quote Norvell gave to The Athletic saying he had back and forth conversations with each member of his team, sparked debate on Twitter early Thursday morning when standout FSU defensive tackle Marvin Wilson called this into question saying that the players only got the same generated message.
More: Marvin Wilson says Coach Mike Norvell's comments 'a lie', FSU football team won't work out
Here's the full text Norvell sent to his team:
"Good evening (name) I wanted to shoot you a short message sorry I can't send video because I'm driving. I wanted to let you know that Maria (Norvell's wife) and I are praying for every coach & player as well as for our country," Norvell's text began.
"For all those that have been victims of hateful actions, discrimination, prejudice and disrespect we lift them up in our thoughts and seek justice. We live in an unfair and volatile world but I want you to know that you are loved & counted on to make a difference for our country's future.
"I know there is anger and strong feelings that come with each day and every experience but please know better days are ahead because of YOU. Be safe and please always know we are here for you as coaches and staff if you ever need to talk. You have a tremendous platform as member of our Nole family. Let's be different and let our actions be heard in Service, Sacrifice, and Respect. Thank you for opportunity to coach you and stand by your side can't wait to see you tomorrow night in zoom meeting!"
---- Tallahassee Democrat
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Well kids don't video and drive, but texting and driving is okay!
Why do anything in your car? Wait until you're at the destination and have a zoom call with the team. I don't understand the thought process some people have.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Also, if my wife is driving and i'm trying to do something in the car, it's typically something that just keeps falling off my radar and I don't want to forget. Something like this seems like something that should have been a higher priority and had more attention paid to it, rather than, "Damn, I gotta send this text message out quick"
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think you don't pretend it's personal if it's not.
Just send out a group text to your team saying that you support them and will get together the next day. And don't pretend to the media that you've gotten together in person until you've actually gotten together in person.
I can see why this would rub someone the wrong way.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I guess I can too, but I wonder if the story comes out that what Norvell really meant is he sent out these individual texts, and got responses from some of his players, and he treated that as a "personal conversation"? I'm not excusing his dumbassery, but maybe he just simply misspoke when he was talking to the media guy?
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Coaches should take a lesson from Harbaugh in this one and only time. He not only is Listening To his players and community but went out and supported them during a rally.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
1000% this! Without getting to deep into it, a lot of these coaches are the face of their school and subsequent community and therefore have a chance to put action to their words. A generic statement is nice, but shoutout to Harbaugh for doing more.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If I were a high profile figure in today's world I wouldn't say boo to a goose as far as anything concerning politics or social issues... either way. Period. If Norvell wants to talk to his players, or not, about anything, he needs to keep it in-house. The players should too.
This is just more dirty laundry red meat that only further poisons the well that is already pretty much full-on cyanide right now.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Wrong, people in the position of power and on a alter have an obligation to speak out about injustice. Just like teams that refused to play bowl games or games at all unless their black student athletes could compete coaches of teams that in large part are made up of mostly black youth have an obligation to speak out about injustice. This is an issue where there are not two sides.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." — Dr Martin Luther King Jr
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." — Archbishop Desmond Tutu
"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference." — Elie Wiesel
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If you're referring to the events surrounding George Floyd...that's not injustice. It's a crime that the police officers have been charged with, and they will be dealt with by the justice system. If the DA and PD had chosen to sweep it up as protocol, that would make it an injustice.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I don't think he said you shouldn't speak out against injustice.
I think he means that maybe it's better not to clod-hop around this week's hot social issue with your silly-assed, ineloquent self. And if you do, have someone review it first.
This is the part where the people who try to draw attention to themselves fail spectacularly. See: Madonna earlier in the week. There are a lot of folks out there looking to eat you alive over any kind of inadvertent misstep or slight.
This is a week where you can say some heartfelt stuff to folks you know, but if you get out ahead your skis, you can crash and burn in a second.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
And in this particular instance, crashing and burning bad enough will get you fired and labeled as a racist forever. Making a stand on Instagram alongside literally millions of more equipped and eloquent people is probably not worth the risk.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I talked with the team (as a group of individualaly) I listened to their concerns about issues of race in America m. How can I support them, how can we as a team support them and how can this school support them. What can we and I do better.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
But I should point out that it's listening, not making a hard, nuanced stand against injustice.
If you make a hard stand for something you believe in using your own words, there's a decent chance you will watch your plane as it spins around you in flames. The media can, and will, shoot you down if you make a mistake, and there are very strict rules that you may not be aware of. Drew Brees thought he could talk about his life experience and be understood. The media made him look tone deaf and minced him up into tiny pieces in about 30 seconds.
You can't pretend to understand anyone else's experience in this day and age. You just can't. Which is why most of the stuff you see has been carefully prepared by PR firms who know what they're doing.
Which gets us back to what Leonard said. You can listen. You can empathize. You can try to understand and see life from a different perspective. But this is not the week to ad-lib about your life experience vis-a-vis someone else's.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
You're pretty spot-on. There's also another side as well. When it comes to issues like this, the media will not allow for the idea that two things can be true at the same time.
Take the Drew Brees example. If Brees speaks about how he doesn't support kneeling during the anthem, the media and pop culture at large calls him insensitive. It can't be possible that Brees is simultaneously patriotic AND sensitive to racial issues that still lurk in our society. Drew Brees donated more money than most of us will ever see in our lifetime to help the city of New Orleans rebuild after Katrina...now he's all of a sudden insensitive to them?
So, sorry... no. I'll not be sharing social commentary with the media if I'm a coach. I'll talk to my team about anything. They're my family.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Agreed. Not just the media, my social media (people I know personally) do this too where they'll nitpick even the smallest misstep into a huge deal. There's a rule in our connected society: anything you say will be misinterpreted in the worst possible way and used against you.
Personally, I keep my political persona very minimal on my public social media for this reason. This goes 1000x fold if you're a head coach and your career is at stake.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
"We're going to pack 100,000 people into (the stadium) and millions watch on TV that are predominantly white -- not all of them certainly, but most of 'em white," Herman told the American-Statesman. "We're gonna cheer when they score touchdowns, and we're gonna hug our buddy when they get sacks or an interception.
"But we gonna let them date our daughter? Are we going to hire them in a position of power in our company? That's the question I have for America. You can't have it both ways."
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Actually, I think it's kind of prejudice to assume that I wouldn't approve of my daughters date because of his character, or hire someone based on merit.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Free speech doesn't mean what you and too many others think it means. He isn't being arrested or charged with a crime. His choices face consequences from others. It's also just not the shirt it's his previous comments on m Kap, his refusal to take a stand on this issue goes beyond the sentiment so many want to make this issue about politics or pandering. Being a decent human being and standing up for others is supposed to be his whole schtick.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Tell me what apparently I think free speech means. He wore a shirt that only a cry baby looking for a reason to complain would complain about. Get over it. Some people are white, some are black. He wore a shirt that said football matters because he is a football coach not a public relations or sensitivity coach. So many people are scared of the dumbest stuff nowadays because of racist groups (white and black) along with politicians who make everything about race, and cry baby kids needing a safe space from life itself. I hope Dabo just talks football, it's not his job to talk race and the 5 star kids still commit to him anyways, they don't care, if they did they'd go elsewhere. He has helped far more than he has hurt people of other races.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
See that's where we disagree. Powerful people have voices they use those voices for a lot of things, why is speaking out against injustice not something we should expect of them. This whole "both sides" isn't real. Either you stand against racism or you don't. It's fairly easy.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I guess my thought is more based on the perceived assumption that because he wore a shirt that said football matters you assume he isn't against racism. If the other comments are correct regarding cap and condoning something a coach under him did, then he is standing on a shaky ladder now.
I am believer that ALL LIFE MATTERS.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
It's not the shirt alone. It's his failure to address the issue while having in the past made comments about Kap for example. His whole world view is because he was poor and now isn't everyone can do what he did.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
That's not the the way I see his perspective at all. I do think he is an example of how someone can make more of themselves with hard work.
There are lots of stories like his. Many people have come from nothing and made something of themselves, and American society is uniquely set up to allow that. It doesn't mean that there aren't obstacles, or that everyone has the same obstacles, or even that life is fair. But compared to any other country I'm aware of, or any other time period in history, this is the time and place you want to be in if you're not coming from privilege.
There are folks who see symbolism differently than the way the mainstream media portrays it. Their life experience may be one that the media doesn't promote with their headlines every day. But everyone's story is important.
Free speech allows all perspectives, but we're moving towards a society that claims to promote free speech, while exacting a heavy toll if you make a statement that isn't exactly what the mainstream media says is within their allowable parameters. There are a lot of nuanced perspectives out there. Don't you want to hear them? Or do you want to quash anything outside of a narrow range?
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Vtkey- well said. Every statement made shouldn't be our defining statement- opinions evolve just as people evolve. Everyone in the world wants to be right, instead of getting to the right answer. Sometimes we just need to listen, evolve and understand. Mistakes can be corrected if you aren't too stubborn to change.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Or I'd like to to see people Accept their personal experience isn't the same for everyone around them. To be an active listener to those with different experiences. It's really not hard.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I do think context matters here. Between the t-shirt, the kap comments, and condoning Danny Pearman's use of a slur, Dabo is (unintentionally) creating a not-so-great public image for himself.
I'm not going to speculate on Dabo's world view, nor will I share my opinions on it, but it's going to be interesting to see if this cools Clemson's recruiting hot streak.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
This is so tone deaf, and bordering on problematic itself. I don't know how minorities put up with people like this on a daily basis. I'm white and I'm exhausted just reading this one comment.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
we prefer to community moderate and steer discussion rather than simply end it. too much here is either already out of bounds or on a razor thin margin for going out of bounds. I'll lock it and nuke things if I have to, but it's better if i can comment to help steer things.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Yeah his whole public persona is taking a huge hit lately. He has to realize who a significant portion of his players are and where they come from. Being this tone deaf regarding racial tensions in this country in a profession where he's relying heavily on minorities buying into him personally seems like a pretty big gamble for his livelihood.
And lets not forget, he wears this shirt only days after there were very public accusations that someone on his staff (WR Coach) was using racial slurs during practices.
If I were a coach right now who regularly went up against Clemson on the recruiting trail, you better believe I'd be building a repository over this to use against them in the circuits. When you lay it all out together, it doesn't look good at all.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think this is definitely politics but perhaps an example where it should be allowed (within reason) because it intersects CFB so directly. I think it's factually correct that:
1. Dabo has publicly expressed a certain political viewpoint
2. That viewpoint is likely not to be received well with the predominantly black players he has to recruit
3. This likely will have tangible impacts on Clemson's ability to recruit and therefore also compete on the field
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
1. Dabo has publicly expressed a certain political viewpoint
2. Dabo is either A piece of crap or is so stupid to not understand why wearing this shirt this week is moronic.
it's out of bounds and this entire conversation should stop
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Yeah fair enough, the second part breaks the rules as I understand them. My rule of thumb is you're doing it wrong if people can guess who you vote for.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I guess I just really don't see that as "pure opinion". It's a plain statement of reality of where Dabo positioned himself politically, and who would be offended by that positioning. I'm consistent in my observation and understanding of the rule, chill out.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Has Dabo made a statement that takes a political stance on everything going on? I haven't seen it. Or are people interpreting his silence as a statement? I honestly have not been following closely enough to know; just curious.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think everything you need to know is captured in this thread. See Hokie Fireman's post on Dabo's recent (now deleted) tweet. Additionally I think bar1990 summarized the situation well with this comment:
I do think context matters here. Between the t-shirt, the kap comments, and condoning Danny Pearman's use of a slur, Dabo is (unintentionally) creating a not-so-great public image for himself.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Freeze the thread. Burn it with fire. This is WAY too political and this is coming from someone who regularly rides the line on political topics on TKP far more than Joe would likely prefer.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Comments
I'll start drinking.
Man, it has been a rough week for ACC Head Coaches. Dabo, Nardouche, and now Norvell.
It's not that difficult to handle this situation either. Just put out a statement saying you support the movement, reach out to your players, and just say 'I'm listening.' It's not that hard to avoid a PR disaster.
Sometimes when tensions are high it's best to listen rather than put your foot in your mouth.
In my short career, I've found that it's almost always best to listen (regardless of how high or low the tensions are) and never a good idea to put your foot in your mouth.
Because Onychomycosis, right? amirite?? Huh?
I'm not sure you get that from suckin' on the old toesies lol.
Picturing Norvell begging Odell Haggins to fix his fuckup.
For FSU, the answer is always Odell Haggins.
Per twitter, Norvell wanted to hold a meeting today to clear things up and players boycotted the meeting as well. Couldn't begin your tenure in a much worse fashion.
-Norvell
Why would you lie about something like this when saying "in the coming days i will be reaching out to my players" is just as effective PR-wise?
The striking part of this is quite fascinating... On one hand, these players can't unionize, so they risk losing their 'jobs' (aka scholarships) if they don't play. But they can't just be replaced either; not even a blue blood like FSU could replace 85 scholarship athletes (assuming the NCAA allowed them to).
Missouri had a similar strike threat a few years ago, but of course in that case the cause of the strike wasn't the coach himself so we're in uncharted territory here.
Norvell will purge the more natural way. He has a pretty open transfer portal now with which to work. He also can't fall out of bed and not step on a 4 star player in his own state. He will get rid of the dudes that aren't his guys- much like Fu has, except this will be more accelerated. In 3 years, he will be challenging Clemson.
Agree with that until the last sentence. His resume isn't as good as a lot of people think, his offenses haven't exactly been challenged by AAC defenses and he hadn't fielded a half decent defense until last season. I have no doubt they can beat the other Atlantic teams in year 3 but Clemson is another level of elite
I think you and DC both have some good points. I think we 'challenged' Clemson in 2016, so it's not unfair to think that FSU could be three years away from playing them tight.
That said, it's really difficult to separate Norvell's success from Fuente's success at Memphis. It's kind of interesting; Fuente
rebuilt a program at Memphis, but seemed to struggle with coming into VT and 'just taking over.' Norvell is in the opposite situation - he 'just took over' Fuente's Memphis team, and now he going to a program that is stuck close to the basement and doing a rebuild for the first time in his career. It will be interesting to compare their two careers 5 years down the road.Pls let FSU stay near the bottom of the Atlantic Division
If this is true, how on earth do you continue as head coach after being caught in a lie like this?
Between this, Narduzzi stepping in it the other day, and the mess that happened with Clemson earlier in the week, its interesting to see some of the muck rising to the surface from people who have been tasked to be the leaders of our kids.
One word: DERP!
Out of curiousity, has a college coach ever been fired before ever coaching a game?
George O'Leary at Notre Dame for sure...there are probably others
yep..cancel culture before it was a thing
The dude lied on his resume. He 100% deserved to be fired.
Yep, and that was Notre Dame's- not the mobs- decision to make. That's my point. If you think there aren't resume embellishments among coaches now, you would be surprised.
I am surprised. With the amount of data and record keeping done over the last two decades, it's pretty hard to lie about what schools you coached at, what your title was, what your record was, etc.
There's resume embellishments, and then there's claiming a university degree that you do not have. Saying that you played and earned varsity letters when you didn't, that's a bit more than an embellishment, especially when you're trying for a football job. Claiming that you earned a master's degree when you didn't, that's a flat out lie.
And TBH, he resigned, he wasn't fired. But he was going to be fired if he hadn't resigned.
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/15/sports/notre-dame-coach-resigns-after...
I'm not defending O Leary- at all.... I'm saying that his deal was between him and ND... a school that chose to keep a coach that presided over a practice where a videographer was killed. Whose to say that if ND called a press conference and stated that they spoke with O Leary and decided to keep him and are comfortable with that? If he went 10-1 the next year, it would have been water under the bridge. O Leary went on to coach in a NY6 bowl, so it didn't ruin his career by any stretch.
No, I didn't think you were. I was responding to you and all the other posts, really.
That phrase... I do not think it means what you think it means.
Mike Price at Alabama
Damn, so he's to blame for Saban
Yeah, but that was Destiny
Just one more reason those games annoy me.
IF, big IF, firing is done, it would technically be with cause, if the school considers lying a for cause firing. Florida did with one of their former coaches recently.
They aren't going to fire him.
He sent an identical "personal" (form letter) message to each athlete. Wasn't really so bad, except for mischaracterizing it. Eeeesh. I don't get the attempt to pretend it's personal, and that he's driving. Can you do a form letter while you're driving?
---- Tallahassee Democrat
Well kids don't video and drive, but texting and driving is okay!
Why do anything in your car? Wait until you're at the destination and have a zoom call with the team. I don't understand the thought process some people have.
Thought about the same here.
Also, if my wife is driving and i'm trying to do something in the car, it's typically something that just keeps falling off my radar and I don't want to forget. Something like this seems like something that should have been a higher priority and had more attention paid to it, rather than, "Damn, I gotta send this text message out quick"
I think you don't pretend it's personal if it's not.
Just send out a group text to your team saying that you support them and will get together the next day. And don't pretend to the media that you've gotten together in person until you've actually gotten together in person.
I can see why this would rub someone the wrong way.
I guess I can too, but I wonder if the story comes out that what Norvell really meant is he sent out these individual texts, and got responses from some of his players, and he treated that as a "personal conversation"? I'm not excusing his dumbassery, but maybe he just simply misspoke when he was talking to the media guy?
I have no doubt that this is how he will play it, regardless.
Nailed it
Coaches should take a lesson from Harbaugh in this one and only time. He not only is Listening To his players and community but went out and supported them during a rally.
1000% this! Without getting to deep into it, a lot of these coaches are the face of their school and subsequent community and therefore have a chance to put action to their words. A generic statement is nice, but shoutout to Harbaugh for doing more.
If I were a high profile figure in today's world I wouldn't say boo to a goose as far as anything concerning politics or social issues... either way. Period. If Norvell wants to talk to his players, or not, about anything, he needs to keep it in-house. The players should too.
This is just more dirty laundry red meat that only further poisons the well that is already pretty much full-on cyanide right now.
There's a lot of truth to this. Anything you do is going to be viewed through some funky prisms you can't even begin to understand or control.
So it definitely better be tight. Particularly if you don't know people really, really well.
Unless you are Justin Fuente. In which case, being tight lipped will turn your entire fan base against you.
Wrong, people in the position of power and on a alter have an obligation to speak out about injustice. Just like teams that refused to play bowl games or games at all unless their black student athletes could compete coaches of teams that in large part are made up of mostly black youth have an obligation to speak out about injustice. This is an issue where there are not two sides.
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." — Dr Martin Luther King Jr
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." — Archbishop Desmond Tutu
"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference." — Elie Wiesel
If you're referring to the events surrounding George Floyd...that's not injustice. It's a crime that the police officers have been charged with, and they will be dealt with by the justice system. If the DA and PD had chosen to sweep it up as protocol, that would make it an injustice.
Without the video they likely wouldn't have been charged tho....
Firstly... a crime is by nature an injustice. Second, I think you're missing the forest for a tree here.
While I'm sympathetic to your attempts at objective logic I'm getting a real sense of tone deafness.
I don't think he said you shouldn't speak out against injustice.
I think he means that maybe it's better not to clod-hop around this week's hot social issue with your silly-assed, ineloquent self. And if you do, have someone review it first.
This is the part where the people who try to draw attention to themselves fail spectacularly. See: Madonna earlier in the week. There are a lot of folks out there looking to eat you alive over any kind of inadvertent misstep or slight.
This is a week where you can say some heartfelt stuff to folks you know, but if you get out ahead your skis, you can crash and burn in a second.
And in this particular instance, crashing and burning bad enough will get you fired and labeled as a racist forever. Making a stand on Instagram alongside literally millions of more equipped and eloquent people is probably not worth the risk.
It's pretty simple especially for a coach.
That's a good approach.
But I should point out that it's listening, not making a hard, nuanced stand against injustice.
If you make a hard stand for something you believe in using your own words, there's a decent chance you will watch your plane as it spins around you in flames. The media can, and will, shoot you down if you make a mistake, and there are very strict rules that you may not be aware of. Drew Brees thought he could talk about his life experience and be understood. The media made him look tone deaf and minced him up into tiny pieces in about 30 seconds.
You can't pretend to understand anyone else's experience in this day and age. You just can't. Which is why most of the stuff you see has been carefully prepared by PR firms who know what they're doing.
Which gets us back to what Leonard said. You can listen. You can empathize. You can try to understand and see life from a different perspective. But this is not the week to ad-lib about your life experience vis-a-vis someone else's.
You're pretty spot-on. There's also another side as well. When it comes to issues like this, the media will not allow for the idea that two things can be true at the same time.
Take the Drew Brees example. If Brees speaks about how he doesn't support kneeling during the anthem, the media and pop culture at large calls him insensitive. It can't be possible that Brees is simultaneously patriotic AND sensitive to racial issues that still lurk in our society. Drew Brees donated more money than most of us will ever see in our lifetime to help the city of New Orleans rebuild after Katrina...now he's all of a sudden insensitive to them?
So, sorry... no. I'll not be sharing social commentary with the media if I'm a coach. I'll talk to my team about anything. They're my family.
Agreed. Not just the media, my social media (people I know personally) do this too where they'll nitpick even the smallest misstep into a huge deal. There's a rule in our connected society: anything you say will be misinterpreted in the worst possible way and used against you.
Personally, I keep my political persona very minimal on my public social media for this reason. This goes 1000x fold if you're a head coach and your career is at stake.
FSU is $EC lite just like Clemson, he skates
Marvin Wilson just dropped a long video message on Instagram.
It seems the FSU meeting went well and they are moving forward.
Has Fu put anything out yet? I know that CMY did.
The best spot on comments I have heard from a CFB coach came in an interview Tom Herman gave.
Actually, I think it's kind of prejudice to assume that I wouldn't approve of my daughters date because of his character, or hire someone based on merit.
I think Herman knows his fanbase, and he's addressing those that he knows feel a certain way.
Tom Herman isn't calling Leonard out, it's a rhetorical question for anyone.
The second condition is proven even on a subconscious level. And to share an anecdote on the first, I've had a parent declare this to a sibling.
It's not a prejudiced question.
Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
So that it's clear, Tom Herman's opinion that these two conditions occur would appear to be fairly well reasoned.
Leonard called Leonard out. Nobody else did that.
It's pretty clear we get to grade our own paper on this quiz.
Automated emails are a Norm today; he probably wanted to make himself look good and should have said that he is going to talk to every player.
Who could possibly solve this problem?
Willie Taggart.
At least he made it more than zero games before the fanbase turning on him
Nah, they were already complaining about how he wasn't qualified before the first game. He was never going to get much of a leash there.
Is pointing out facts really complaining?
Stop talking politics.
This isn't political.
The topic isn't political.
Some of the commentary does approach that line.
So Dabo is either A piece of crap or is so stupid to not understand why wearing this shirt this week is moronic.
This is America, not Russia, he can wear what he wants.
Free speech doesn't mean what you and too many others think it means. He isn't being arrested or charged with a crime. His choices face consequences from others. It's also just not the shirt it's his previous comments on m Kap, his refusal to take a stand on this issue goes beyond the sentiment so many want to make this issue about politics or pandering. Being a decent human being and standing up for others is supposed to be his whole schtick.
Tell me what apparently I think free speech means. He wore a shirt that only a cry baby looking for a reason to complain would complain about. Get over it. Some people are white, some are black. He wore a shirt that said football matters because he is a football coach not a public relations or sensitivity coach. So many people are scared of the dumbest stuff nowadays because of racist groups (white and black) along with politicians who make everything about race, and cry baby kids needing a safe space from life itself. I hope Dabo just talks football, it's not his job to talk race and the 5 star kids still commit to him anyways, they don't care, if they did they'd go elsewhere. He has helped far more than he has hurt people of other races.
See that's where we disagree. Powerful people have voices they use those voices for a lot of things, why is speaking out against injustice not something we should expect of them. This whole "both sides" isn't real. Either you stand against racism or you don't. It's fairly easy.
I guess my thought is more based on the perceived assumption that because he wore a shirt that said football matters you assume he isn't against racism. If the other comments are correct regarding cap and condoning something a coach under him did, then he is standing on a shaky ladder now.
I am believer that ALL LIFE MATTERS.
It's not the shirt alone. It's his failure to address the issue while having in the past made comments about Kap for example. His whole world view is because he was poor and now isn't everyone can do what he did.
That's not the the way I see his perspective at all. I do think he is an example of how someone can make more of themselves with hard work.
There are lots of stories like his. Many people have come from nothing and made something of themselves, and American society is uniquely set up to allow that. It doesn't mean that there aren't obstacles, or that everyone has the same obstacles, or even that life is fair. But compared to any other country I'm aware of, or any other time period in history, this is the time and place you want to be in if you're not coming from privilege.
There are folks who see symbolism differently than the way the mainstream media portrays it. Their life experience may be one that the media doesn't promote with their headlines every day. But everyone's story is important.
Free speech allows all perspectives, but we're moving towards a society that claims to promote free speech, while exacting a heavy toll if you make a statement that isn't exactly what the mainstream media says is within their allowable parameters. There are a lot of nuanced perspectives out there. Don't you want to hear them? Or do you want to quash anything outside of a narrow range?
Vtkey- well said. Every statement made shouldn't be our defining statement- opinions evolve just as people evolve. Everyone in the world wants to be right, instead of getting to the right answer. Sometimes we just need to listen, evolve and understand. Mistakes can be corrected if you aren't too stubborn to change.
Or I'd like to to see people Accept their personal experience isn't the same for everyone around them. To be an active listener to those with different experiences. It's really not hard.
Great advice.
We could all do with a little less judgment, a little more tolerance, and a better appreciation of people's life experiences.
EDIT: Nvm, I guess this thread is over.
I do think context matters here. Between the t-shirt, the kap comments, and condoning Danny Pearman's use of a slur, Dabo is (unintentionally) creating a not-so-great public image for himself.
I'm not going to speculate on Dabo's world view, nor will I share my opinions on it, but it's going to be interesting to see if this cools Clemson's recruiting hot streak.
So Dabo's shirt that says football matters means he doesn't stand against racism. Thank you judge and jury.
This is so tone deaf, and bordering on problematic itself. I don't know how minorities put up with people like this on a daily basis. I'm white and I'm exhausted just reading this one comment.
It's hard man. Seeing some users true colors over the past few days has been disheartening.
lol don't you literally have the power to do that
we prefer to community moderate and steer discussion rather than simply end it. too much here is either already out of bounds or on a razor thin margin for going out of bounds. I'll lock it and nuke things if I have to, but it's better if i can comment to help steer things.
Yeah his whole public persona is taking a huge hit lately. He has to realize who a significant portion of his players are and where they come from. Being this tone deaf regarding racial tensions in this country in a profession where he's relying heavily on minorities buying into him personally seems like a pretty big gamble for his livelihood.
And lets not forget, he wears this shirt only days after there were very public accusations that someone on his staff (WR Coach) was using racial slurs during practices.
If I were a coach right now who regularly went up against Clemson on the recruiting trail, you better believe I'd be building a repository over this to use against them in the circuits. When you lay it all out together, it doesn't look good at all.
idk why on earth you would even want to go down this rabbit hole on this site
"bUT iT's nOt PoLItiCs"
it's basically CG-violation bait.
I think this is definitely politics but perhaps an example where it should be allowed (within reason) because it intersects CFB so directly. I think it's factually correct that:
1. Dabo has publicly expressed a certain political viewpoint
2. That viewpoint is likely not to be received well with the predominantly black players he has to recruit
3. This likely will have tangible impacts on Clemson's ability to recruit and therefore also compete on the field
Just remember, the word "likely" indicates that an opinion follows.
That's kind of a weird hill to die on, no?
Sorry if my comment wasn't clear. I was just pointing out that your comment is pure opinion.
the problem is that what we get instead is:
1. Dabo has publicly expressed a certain political viewpoint
2. Dabo is either A piece of crap or is so stupid to not understand why wearing this shirt this week is moronic.
it's out of bounds and this entire conversation should stop
Yeah fair enough, the second part breaks the rules as I understand them. My rule of thumb is you're doing it wrong if people can guess who you vote for.
See? You know how to interpret the rule.
You just don't choose to follow the rule.
Following the rule is the most important part about having a rule....
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I guess I just really don't see that as "pure opinion". It's a plain statement of reality of where Dabo positioned himself politically, and who would be offended by that positioning. I'm consistent in my observation and understanding of the rule, chill out.
Has Dabo made a statement that takes a political stance on everything going on? I haven't seen it. Or are people interpreting his silence as a statement? I honestly have not been following closely enough to know; just curious.
I think everything you need to know is captured in this thread. See Hokie Fireman's post on Dabo's recent (now deleted) tweet. Additionally I think bar1990 summarized the situation well with this comment:
Yes. There's a video on the Clemson Tigers website. TBH, I haven't watched it but plan to after work today. It's 14 minutes long.
https://clemsontigers.com/
I wish Justin Fuente would have all the "difficulty" Dabo is having by bringing in top 5 classes. Wow.
DCWilson coming in with the snark on VT recruiting during a political debate, from the top rope. Love it.
He's trying to save the thread with football content. /s
But he's not wrong.
Watching where this thread is going like
Have written then deleted about 5 comments before posting
Thank you, seriously.
Yup, everyone can stop now
Freeze the thread. Burn it with fire. This is WAY too political and this is coming from someone who regularly rides the line on political topics on TKP far more than Joe would likely prefer.