It appears that even though the backfield has been an area of concern for the past two seasons, we have an overabundance of bodies at RB next year, and probably for the next 2-3 years. Here is a list of the possible options:
Trey Edmunds
JC Coleman
Chris Mangus
Joel Caleb
Marshawn Williams
DJ Reid
Tabyus Taylor
On top of that, we're chasing after Shai McKenzie, who would be rated higher than Williams, Reid, and Taylor at RB.
Who gets moved? Who are the top three backs to get carries? Who redshirts? There are a lot of open-ended questions at this position, I'm interested to see what everyone thinks.
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IMHO, in 2014, Reid, Taylor and McKenzie (if he commits) will redshirt. Williams will redshirt unless it's a David Wilson-type situation. Edmunds will be the starter, Coleman will be the 3rd down/change of pace guy. Caleb will still be doing H-Back/WR stuff. Unfortunately, I think Mangus will pull a Donaldven Manning and transfer to a less competitive school.
I think Taylor will become another Tweedy - he's an athlete and wouldnt be surprised if he is shoveled around in a few positions for his first 2 years.
There has been talk of Taylor playing LB, but the article in the Richmond paper today specifically said he was to start at RB. That could change the minute he steps on campus though, as it has with other players in the past (see: our quarterback)
Very true!
I'd like to see him playing slot receiver if it is too full at RB. I beleive he might have YAC potential. Is it just me?
I would be intrigued to see him get a shot at slot WR too. I said in the Tabyus thread, given his size and quickness, maybe he could be the next Wes Welker.
Evidently Caleb is getting no playing time because he cannot learn the playbook
Well thats not good...
Frankly I thought Mangus looked better than Coleman this year. Not sure why we didn't get him more touches.
Also, how will the leg injury to Edmunds effect things?
I hear ya. I just wish we had a better sample size for both players.
I love JC's attitude -- I cannot overstate this. I do not doubt in the least that we are getting 100% from him.
But his play has not really impressed me. Every time I see Mangus with the ball, I see a guy running with authority and a quickness to the edge that I feel like the other backs don't have. What is missing is many examples of him running between the tackles trying to move the pile, or picking up a blitz.
Obviously they have been getting the ball in different ways. Mangus tends to get the flare routes that are exactly the kind of routes a shifty fast back like JC should be getting more of.
The biggest issue w/ JC is the blocking. I really though with the added weight this year, he'd be better at it. And I am sure most the time he was. But there were a few just head-scratching misses (and in one case what looked for all the world like an outright dodge when he was in perfect position) that stood out this year.
I wouldn't blame Mangus at all for moving on to another team if he falls any more out of the depth chart. He looks like a guy that could put up some big numbers in the right offense.
In the end, I don't think this year was a good year for running backs to get in any sort of groove. I'm really hoping that next year's OLine is better sooner, and our RBs continue to show the decisiveness and burst that they were starting to hint at the last few games this year.
I think the bowl will go a long way to telling us how good JC really is, now that he is the guy with Edmunds hurt.
Of course, all this discussion will be moot once Sam Rogers increases his muscle mass, drops his 40 time to 4.2, and gets over his quaint notions of letting other people have the spotlight. His selfless thinking cost us a touchdown on that pass to LT3. He should have just thrown the ball like he knows he can, and let the force of the pass pick Thomas up and drop him safely in the end zone.*
* By safely, I am referring to the score, not the integrity of LT3's sternum.
Edmunds is starter 100% unless he doesn't come back healthy enough from surgery. I could see one of the incoming guys pressing JC for some time. Mainly McKenzie and Williams for sure as they seem to be ahead of the others based of film. Who knows though. Early enrolling will help Williams for sure and it will be interesting to see.
If nothing else we finally use skill players on ST if they're not going to redshirt.
If Williams or McKenzie are ready right away, could Edmands be moved back to linebacker? That young man can HIT.
Not at this point. He'll be the starter either way.
I'm with you at this point.
I think Marshawn + Reid + ?McKenzie + Coleman/Caleb/Mangus +whomever else will be a lot stronger rotation than what we started with this year. And looking to 2015, that would give us a deep bench for RB (notwithstanding injury etc.). That also gets Trey to LB where he would be needed, and very effective.
I wonder if some players wow this spring if we don't see some changes, but what do I know.
And don't count out JC yet....I have a feeling he will hit it hard again and come out swinging this spring. I think his injury hampered him more than we know.
It was just a cluster all around this year for the running game.
It's not happening. Edmunds is and will be a better runningback than a linebacker. Now if he wants to be similar to Miles Jack and play both ways, then that's fine. But you can't take Edmunds away from the offense.
Edmunds was a good back for us and the best we had but by no means was he a Ryan Williams this season. Marshawn could be better and if that is the case I want Edmunds at LB. If the OL isn't opening holes it won't matter who the RB is and if they are opening holes then it doesn't matter who the RB is. We have a serious need at LB and significant depth at RB. I have 0 problems if they moved him to LB right now.
There was mention on the sportshoopla board that the scuttlebutt is Edmunds may move to LB. With Williams a January enrollee and Edmunds out, I could see how we would be more comfortable with that transition.
A lot of the logjam we have right now is because we have been covering holes. Wilson went pro, Holmes was limited, JCC was small, so we kept Edmunds at TB. JCC was hurt, Caleb was suspended for Bama, so Mangus moves back from WR. Once we have true TB's in the system lined up to play, hopefully we can move some of these "athletes" to positions where they can help the team more.
We recruited trey as a Lb so it certainly could happen. He moved to rb because we basically had no one
1) Edmunds
2) Coleman
3) Caleb/Williams/McKenzie/Reid (if it's one of the freshman, they may "redshirt" unless injuries force them to play.
Edit*
Scenario 2: Edmunds doesn't get back to 100% quickly enough.
1)McKenzie/Williams/Reid/Caleb/Coleman - whoever can pass protect best
2)Edmunds, until he gets to 100%
Taylor preps and Mangus plays some slot reciever/KR/PR
I agree no idea why Mangus didn't get to return kicks the kid can flat out run. He has the speed and is a one cut and go type of guy. JC is good but I feel like he lacks the vision a little bit..
what scares the crap out of me is giving shane this many rb's to work with. he has a history of rotating guys so much. i can see some guys getting moved around to other positions. i think you have to have trey and jc as 1 and 2 and the younger guys will hopefully get a chance to learn the system
Agreed, Shane can be a bit Mike Londonesque in his rotations.
"Okay, I've got...SHIT, I've got 8 running backs! A series for YOU! And a series for YOU! And a series for YOU! Yeah, don't worry Trey, I'll get you back in. Definitely by the next game at the latest."
Just a reminder that we just offered Anthony Scott not too long ago too.
Probably as a corner though. Otherwise we'd have 5 RBs in this class if McKenzie commits
Definitely as an RB.
http://www.recruit757.com/stallion-adds-major-offer/
Well dang
That was my reaction when I read this article when it initially got published as well.
Honestly, if Shai picks VT, then Scott probably looks elsewhere. I mean if he wants to come and compete, then more power to him, but looking at the depth we have now plus Williams, Reid, and Shai that's way too much to compete against versus if he chose ECU.
Nope... He wants to play RB. His HS coach said not to offer as a RB and move him to CB when he gets on campus. Our offer came in and ECU immediately changed their offer from CB to RB because that's what he wants to play.
This kid is fast, REAL FAST!
based on the video I could find..he didn't look THAT fast...I think Marshawn Williams looks just as fast but he's a more complete back
Marshawn's pretty fast, but his biggest attribute is that he HURTS.
Saw him in person play, bro. He's fast.
He is really quick in tight spaces. I will be doing a more detailed film review on Williams, Ford, and any other enrollees once they are in school.
See what you did there. McGiggity.
Tabyus Taylor's recruitment has been slow because of academic concerns. I think we accepted his commitment thinking he's going to have to prep, but we liked him better than most current junior RB prospects.
And the worst case is that he's a LB or ST's player. At 220 lbs, he could grow into a fullback as well.
I'd rather him grow into a 250lb Mike LB
If Williams is in any way decent at the college level as he is at the high school level (looking at his vision, not just speed and power), then he needs to play. I wasn't too fond of Coleman running this year, and I thought Edmunds made a lot of progress and should have gotten more touches. There were a couple games this year where we saw Edmunds just chewing up yards, and then Coleman would get in and we wouldn't go anywhere. It made me wonder what happened to Edmunds during those times. Edmunds looked like he was learning to anticipate holes and direct blockers, and could push when he needed to. Coleman didn't seem to have that at all.
Williams, looking at the tape, doesn't just see the hole, he anticipates it, THEN keeps his eyes to see where people are, adjusts on the fly, and just seems to know what he's doing.
I hope we can find an innovative way to use Mangus and Coleman. I'd like to keep them around, but I'd like the tailback to be full of thumpers like Edmunds, Caleb, Williams and Reid.
An alternative viewpoint here is to blow it up, which could come if Shane leaves. You could:
- Move Edmunds to starting Mike LB,
- Move Caleb to FS to compete with Fisher and Reavis (nice 2015 secondary with Reavis(FS), Caleb (Rov) and Fisher (Whip), Kendall and Facyson at CB),
- Move Mangus to WR,
- Pair JCC with Williams and Reid,
- Redshirt McKenzie to rehab the knee.
I don't think Shane would have to leave for most of that alternative to happen. I think Edmunds sticks at RB at this point, but his health will be something to keep an eye on heading into fall practice. Our secondary would be absolutely terrifying with Kendall, Brandon, Chuck Clark, Caleb and Fisher in 2015. I could see Caleb and Fisher both either playing Rover or Whip. Reid is the wild card for me. Not sure where he fits in. Some players have to be moved to other positions IMO to make sure most of this talent sees the field in one way or another.
I thought i read somewhere Reid might be moved to wr. If that happens, then Taylor to lb, Caleb as hback, mangus back to wr where he was briefly in August, Edmonds as rb, Coleman and Williams as backups. Redshirt mckinzie if he is still injured. Basically think Caleb should be Percy Harvin/Coredelle Patterson/what they tried having dj Coles be at the beginning of the year before realizing he was too hurt still
Didn't Caleb put some work in at WR?
Caleb started his career at WR but just wasn't clicking.
Sorry I Just had to
I think, IF we get McKenzie, he redshirts no matter what. The dude is coming off an ACL tear, it's entirely possible he isn't even healthy enough to start the season anyway. If Edmunds is still having trouble with the ankle, then I'd expect Marshawn Williams to come in and start.
I think Williams is the next great VT RB.
I believe the same thing! Actually told my dad on the phone last night the same thing.
If VT moves Caleb again I'm sure he would be a team player. he seems the sort but inside he's gotta be pissed. I wouldn't blame him for reacting like this:
Coaches need to find a way to get him on the field. This bullshit of moving him around is wasting his time and he was a big time recruit. I personally would be phucking pissed. I still think it affects recruiting. VT has a bad reputation for moving big time recruits after they arrive and if I am a 4/5 star kid I don't want my coaches suggesting (pushing) me to move to a position I don't want to play. Especially when I specifically tell them I don't want that. *cough* Logan *cough* Teller
Same thing is happening with Carlis Parker - wanted to play QB - listed at QB now, but will become WR or another ATH position at some point.
It's the same and different IMO. Yes they will likely move Parker as well. But I think what makes it different for Caleb is that he was the star of that class and he has yet to significantly crack the field. He needs to be on the field.
I think with Parker they sat him down and said honestly, "you should be on the field but you can see how QB situation is. We can see you playing more and sooner at WR"
Where as with Caleb they said, "how about WR because we are thin there. hey caleb how about you try RB because we're thin there now" They should have had him at RB first off and Trey at LB. Barring that don't move Caleb again unless it's somewhere he is going to be on the field immediately.
Unless Caleb puts on 30 pounds, he's to tall to be a rb at that weight. All the scout services said wr too, which i think would be ideal for his body size if not for his issues learning the routes and "not feeling a part of the offense out there" (his quote on being a wr).
I mean I hope that Caleb didn't sign with VT assuming he was going to play immediately. He signed with VT knowing full well that he was going to have to learn a brand new position.
Agreed. Then leave him at a position to learn it. That's what I'm saying.
Yes - completely agree. To me, Caleb is too good of an athlete to leave off the field, but they need to be committed on where he ends up playing rather than flip flopping
I mean Its not a matter of VT giving these guys the shaft. Its probably more that they arent translating to the position at the college level. Teller could potentially be an elite Offensive lineman, whereas if he had stayed on the defensive side he would have been above average possibly. Logan could have potentially been a huge NFL draft pick at Tight End, but we will never know. Regardless someone will draft him and he will make money in the NFL, I doubt he has too many regrets.
The problem with Caleb is that he just doesnt smoothly translate to a particular position. He can play Running Back and he can play Wide Receiver but not at an elite level. Sometimes its just a matter of finding your niche. I wouldnt be surprised if Caleb's niche ends up as secondary depth.
deleted - repost
So you think he'll end up being another Justin Hamilton?
I think that would be best case scenario for him. I really could see him switching to the secondary and making an impact as injury depth.
Honestly I think the problem is/was not having a real idea as to wtf we wanted to do on offense. Now that there is a light at the "end of the long dark, narrow, claustrophobic tunnel" we can start to recruit kids with a purpose to fit in and not to move around.
I think it is difficult to speculate on the running back situation until we see how the current stable is utilized with Edmunds being injured for the bowl game. Plus, we need to understand the mindset in making those decisions. If the choice is to play Coleman, even if they do feel he is the best option I am sure recruiting is playing a factor as the Hokies are targeting Josh Sweat and Dshawn McCleese from Oscar Smith. At the same time, if they feel that Caleb or Mangus are better players, I doubt they would want either to transfer. It is a tough question.
Based on what I have seen on film, Marshawn Williams is a very similar player to Trey Edmunds. He is a big, power back. He has a short flat footed stride that is almost identical to Edmunds (watch Williams on a long run and then watch Edmunds touchdown run against Alabama... it is almost a dead match.) Edmunds is more raw and appears to have better straight line speed. Williams gets downhill quicker, has really quick feet in tight space, and has a shorter stride. Plus, Williams looks like he has impressive raw power at the goal line. It makes all the sense in the world that he doesn't get a redshirt, BUT, he is so similar to Edmunds that if he he doesn't get a redshirt it is a pretty clear indicator that Loeffler wants to feature more of the base running game and less of the jet sweep "scat back" look.
I have said all along, no matter how promising Caleb is at running back, the fact that he never was a true running back in high school troubles me. I still think he can contribute more as a big wide receiver or a defensive back, but he is too good an athlete not to play. I wasn't high on Mangus until he ran well in garbage time in Alabama, and he made more critical plays in the passing game early in the season than Coleman did late.
I think McKenzie is clearly a redshirt if he comes in.
Do you think DJ Reid and Taybus will stay at RB once they come in and redshirt a year?
Reid wasn't an everydown back in high school. Taybus had games where he carried the ball 50 times. IF one moves, I would guess Reid will move first.
Also French, please tell me all of this about Trey to LB is just talk and not for real
I will also add that marshawn has way more power than trey or any other rb we have or have coming in this yr. i love trey and his progression at rb but he is pretty easy to tackle at times. Im not sure if its his footing or what but i dont see him breaking alot of arm tackles. With williams you damn sure better go low or you not getting him down
From what I have heard Coleman was NEVER 100% this season after the injury. If he comes back healthy he will be able to play more of a role in the offense than just a third down back. He averaged over 4 yards a carry last season as a freshman and he will get stronger during the offseason.
If you take away the numbers Jc put
Up against duke his freshmen season, his numbers were almost identical to Michael Holmes that season.
I want Jc to be a contributor, but after two seasons, my gut tells me he's a role player instea of a featured back. Here's hoping I'm wrong
There will be attrition at the rb spot. I can def see that. We are in good for a couple top rbs of the 2015 class like mcclease and bryce love
About Trey getting moved to LB:
1) He may not seem like he was effective because he was only getting 10-12 carries per game at times. Unacceptable for his talent level.
2) He was not recruited by VT as a linebacker. He was listed on Rivals as one, but he was a RB from the start here. If we moved him simply for need, he wouldn't have redshirted.
3) He has three years left. It would take him a full year before he would be an effective linebacker. Imagine what he could do after two years at RB.
That's my two cents on Trey.
He was to recruited for LB at tech. He just moved to rb once he got here. And it turned out to be a good move. Because he is a very good rb. I am subscribed to rivals btw
I was at the press conference when Beamer could first talk about the 2012 class. He stated right then that Edmunds would start at RB, and yes it was because of lack of bodies at the position, but on signing day he was an RB for us.
Agree on all fronts. If the Hokies wanted Trey at linebacker, he would have started there. That is where I wanted him. His film was spectacular at that position, and when he committed the Hokies were dreadfully thin at linebacker. But, to suggest that he is not a running back is absurd. He wasn't used properly for half the season (Trey Edmunds is a bunch of things, but a veer fullback he is not.) When he started to scratch the surface, he proved to be an excellent receiver, by far their best running back in pass protection in years, and a good runner. Now they have invested two years into Trey Edmunds as their next Kevin Jones/Ryan Williams feature back. He isn't moving to linebacker.
Question: didn't Caleb and Mangus used to be WRs??
I believe so.
Yes. Move Mangus to slot receiver. Let Trey and Williams be the 1 - 2 combo at RB next year. JC #3 back, and move Caleb to D. Problems solved.
There are two ways to approach this...
What the staff WILL DO and what the staff SHOULD DO. This season has been a lot of fun, but the running back rotation has been ...strange... at times. I can't say with much confidence what will happen moving forward, but this is what I think SHOULD.
1. Edmunds is a RB
Period. He's already shown he can be productive at that position, he's much better in short yardage situations than the rest of the RB's currently on the roster, and by the end of the season he had really improved his outside running. He was brilliant in the UVA game until he got hurt. Moving him to LB would be a waste of time and talent. It's easy to look at the depth chart and want to move players around based on need, but it's not that simple. Linebacker and running back are so different, it's almost a different sport. Especially playing linebacker for Bud Foster.
We know what we have with Edmunds at running back, why give that up on the off chance that he might also be good at linebacker? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...
2. JC Coleman isn't an every down back, and shouldn't be asked to be
JC Coleman is a great Hokie, but he's not the type of dominant athlete that you can build an entire offense around. He is a very good weapon to have because of his versatility though. His skill set allows Loeffler to line him up at different spots and create match-up nightmares either for himself or others. His success will depend on Loeffler's creativity though, not his own ability to line up in the I-formation and run for first down after first down. If Shane keeps asking him to do this moving forward, he isn't placing JC in the best position to succeed.
3. Mangus and Caleb are too talented to be sitting on the bench
I know that Joel Caleb had that one AWFUL pass protection pick up miscue early in the season, but he needs to be on the field more often. Mangus has good speed and an ability to make defenders miss in space... there's got to be more room for him in this offense than just flare screens.
Here's the real question though. If you were an defensive coordinator, would you rather see a TE, 3 WR, and one running back in the huddle... or 1 H-Back and 4 RBs?
For me, having another running back who also took reps at wide receiver in the game is a much bigger match-up problem than Tech's current number 3 WR. Using a package with Mangus, Caleb, JC, Trey, and DJ Coles would have kept defensive coordinators up all night. It would have been a run heavy package for sure, but there's enough speed at those athlete positions to make a defense respect the pass.
All I'm saying is, with the lack of explosiveness we saw out of the WR position all season I would have expected to see more attempts at creating those big plays through misdirection and mismatches by bringing in versatile guys. I love The Paperboy, but he caught a ton of passes on basic drag routes. Caleb and Mangus are more than capable of running those routes, and are also a threat to receive a hand off in the backfield.
4. One incoming freshmen will get significant carries next season
I really like this running back recruiting class, and if Shai commits Tech will finally have the stable of #horsesonatreadmill that us fans are used to. Williams is undoubtedly ready to take snaps at the collegiate level. While I do have my concerns about his ceiling (he currently lacks elite speed) I think his vision and his hips will ultimately make him a success in the ACC. Plus he's enrolling early. I think Williams is the clear favorite to get touches as a true freshmen next season.
The other running backs do impress me, but simple math shows that someone is getting moved to another position. Most likely to LB. Moving a player who is already on the roster at RB isn't very efficient, especially if they have already burned their redshirt. Taking an incoming freshmen, using their redshirt year to learn the defense, and then getting four years out of them is clearly the ideal situation.
Correction:
Tech will finally have the stable of #horsesonatreadmill that we fans are used to.
/asshat off.
Great observations, 3rd.
touche
#2 is one of the things that annoy me the most. Coleman shouldn't be used like a plowhorse back, yet he's asked to go between the tackles on 3rd and short. Other teams have figured out how to use fast but undersized backs in effective ways.
I swear we ran Coleman up the middle on third and short in critical situations more than Edmunds this year, it was ridiculous. Maybe I just noticed it more with Coleman because it always failed, but still, that should not be happening.
this post essentially sums up all of my emotions on this season. I hate with a passion when people say "move trey to lb", this kid, mark my words, is going to be special. My friends can attest i spent most of this season yelling to get trey the ball, and especially towards the end of the season i felt like he was unstoppable. Not to mention he is already great in pass protection and out of the backfield.
I agree with all of this
This is great news - looking for the next 1, 500 + RB in this group Scott will be looking for ways to get as many of these RBs on the field at once.
Also, I noted that McKenzie will redshirt. It isn't because I am not impressed with him, but he is very similar to Williams and Edmunds (perhaps a tad bit smaller, and a bit faster.) With those two guys in the mix to go with the other returners, it just makes sense to make sure that McKenzie gets healthy. Assuming we get him, of course.
Didn't McKenzie have a bad knee injury this year as well? A redshirt may not be the worst idea anyway.
That would be why we redshirt him. Tore his ACL back in late September
McKenzie hasn't committed yet. It is between us and Pitt.
RB needed a few years to catch up with Darren, Ryan, and David leaving early. Its good to see the coache's stocking up at the position.
Yes, but it's frustrating that we had to catch up.
I'll ask the Trey Edmunds question in a different way since the collective wisdom from TKP is that he will be staying at RB.
IF....our recruiting had been better and we had less losses (Drew Harris miss, David Wilson leaving early, another primo RB recruit 2 years ago) would Trey Edmunds be our returning starting RB, or a returning, likely starting LB?
He would have still redshirted, but after the Michael Holmes incident, I still think he'd be an RB at this point at least. He was an All-American RB in high school and put up ridiculous numbers, so I think our placing of him was based largely on that and not just roster depth.
It always felt to me like Edmunds was holding the spot at RB until Harris got to campus but Harris never got there.
I've never seen him play linebacker.
But I have seen him get 100 yards against Alabama. So I'm going to say running back.
Edmunds is a true RB. I think we will get straight on Mke LB but it will be 2016 before we are truly solid in the 2 deep. I feel like there is too much politics in the playing of our RBs. The play calling vs the results on the field prove there is some kind of weird dynamic in play. Just like the lack of running the power I when we had the talent in the backfield to do it. I was so frustrated with the abandonment of that formation for the useless illiterate (read) option.
He may be a true running back, but I'd like to see him level someone again.
But preferably not after a turnover