Our first one of the year and it's a doozie. I'm pretty pissed we left Burmeister in for the first half and HH proved in the second half he should be the unquestioned QB1 going forward. However....this defense is bad. It's been bad all year and I can't blame COVID for how bad we were manhandled by UNC (and even Duke, but we were saved because they have a crappy QB). I don't care about sacks, I care about stops and this JHam scheme isn't cutting it so far. Maybe he needs his guys in there, but right now he doesn't have them so he needs to adjust. As much as I'd like to blame depth and COVID, the D just got smoked and that falls on Hamilton.
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Now I know what it's like to be a fan of a Big 12 team.
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What a hunk of shit. Chickenshit bullshit defense, dumb Corn being dumb, Fuente sticking with Burmeister down 3 scores after going three and out three straight times, shitty arm-tackling all day by the defense...
I will say though, Hooker and the offensive performance in the second half was a definite bright spot
I may be in the minority...but this is exactly what I thought this game would be...even with all the defensive starters playing, this game is still probably high scoring.
Overall yes, this is what I thought it would be, the issue was the RBs beat us more than Howell. They didn't pick on our DBs they picked on everyone on the defense. There are some fixable things (Barno read the play, dropped back but not far enough and threw right over him). But having our DBs back dont help us against teams as talent as UNC. Clemson will look similar. Miami worries me too.
Having said that, the offense felt like 2016 in the "we can score" mentality. Doesn't matter how far down they will play their buttons off.
Good offenses expose weaknesses and ours are exacerbated by injury, COVID, and then in this game an ejection...not to mention this does affect practice as well...but again all that said, we know, have known, and will continue to know that defensively we are not there yet.
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#%@$!&(^!##%&!@%!#@^ that game
Ugh. Bless all of you that watched the whole thing. I might get around to finishing it...some year.
The third quarter was hella fun actually. My roommate and I were getting hype af.
Oh man I was high stepping across my living room lol
I'll watch the second half then. I got started late, saw them get to 21 immediately, just turned it off, and spent the afternoon in my workshop with my notifications off.
Just watch the second half and think of it as a preview of what the offense looks like with HH at the helm. We can pass the ball!
We won the 2nd half so we get to stick a trophy in out moral victory case right?
Lol speaking of moral victories, I loved watching UVA celebrate moral victories in a blowout loss to Clemson only to get smacked around by NC State the following week.
I hate this loss just as bad as everyone else but I had it chalked up to a L from the get go. I just knew with our top safeties out we'd be in an uphill climb. Getting Deablo back will be huge. Let's be honest, even without Covid we didn't have the depth needed to slow down an O with a heartbeat.
No offense to Dax but he shouldn't play one single defensive snap next weekend. That was a shitty look and had it been a UNC player doing that to HH I feel like Hoffman would've laid him out. That could've started a fight that would've sent players home next weekend.
Let's get our players back, learn from this embarrassing loss and see what the year brings.
My vent is that Cornelson should have been fired last year and it's an indictment of Fuente's ability to identify talent that he's still here.
Our defense is shit, and it's a direct result of our suckass recruiting since Fuente got here. And it's only going to get worse because we still haven't felt the full impact there. Our defense could be historically bad in a year or two.
Corn and Fu are attached at the hip. Corn is a highly suspect playcaller, but he's running Fu's system. The decision to not start HH was a Fu decision almost assuredly. At some point the common threads all lead back to the same place.
What is Fu's system? I've been watching for 5 years and I couldn't tell you what it looks like.
I'm concerned that we don't play to our strengths or put the plays on position to succeed. BB has a certain skill set, but we kept running plays that looked designed for Willis. Perfect example is HH last TD play to,Mitchell. That's his strength, motion/rhythm offense with quick reads.
Outside of a few...these guys mostly all played for Bud last year and were better than this. It wasn't the DB's that killed us (though they didn't help), it was the front 7 guys.
The DBs killed us today, both in the passing game and in the run game. They were flat out bad.
But that doesn't excuse the fact that we got zero pressure on Howell and the fact that the DL wasn't getting a hand on the RBs and the LB's (Dax in particular) weren't interested in tackling.
Should've run early yes.
But let's be clear, the defense is much worse than the offense. The defense is abysmal.
Corn is in charge of the offense
Hamilton is in charge of the defense.
Both were so bad that it's not worth discussing which was worse
Not really.
Both weren't even close to being equally bad
The offense clawed us back into the game.
The was nonexistent. Not even close.
we scored 45 points
And left a lot on the table
You honestly pissed about the offense? WTF.
I'm pissed about the coaching decisions, yes, they were stupid and contributed to us digging an early hole
No way, the defense could stop nothing...slow start on offense, not starting Hendon...I'm with you, but we were exposed on D all day...and still had this game within 5 points.
Fu said postgame, and I quote "I'm kicking my own ass for the play calling at the end of first half".
You take that score out and eliminate the penalty that negated Tre's TD and I'd argue we are looking at another overtime game or likely leading into the 4th...and yes we still would have given up 600+ yards.
If you believe the rumors, Fuente wanted to replace Corny, but didn't have the budget.
If its to that point, demote or fire him and call the plays yourself.
Higher a younger, cheaper coach and have him Recruit his ass off while learning the duties. God knows anything would be a boost over Cornelson's recruiting record.
There have been multiple rumors as well that Fuente, at times, has taken the playcalling duties...interestingly, those also seem to be times that we have been successful.
At a certain point, if Fuente is the better playcaller, then he needs to be calling the plays. Don't tell me a head coach can't be that kind of guy when I see numerous coaches in the NFL (including 2 of the last 3 Super Bowl champions) able to pull it off every week.
We scored 40+ today. Today is not on Corny.
Re: the situation last year, Cornelson had offers, but chose to stay.
Who did cornelson have offers from; I was out of the loop on this
We could have scored 50+.
And sustaining drives in the 1stQ rather than going 3andout may have helped reduce UNC momentum.
Giving Herbert some damn carries in the First Half might have been a good idea rather than relying on BB to throw, which ia an obvious weakness.
All that is on him
Eh, I really have a hard time blaming the offense on this one. Just think of this. Corny didnt start BB the first half. We would have probably scored 50+ with HH in the whole game with the game Corny called. The defense was so unbelievably bad that I feel that people can't even find a specific fault in them right now.
I don't blame the players, they executed the game plan very well.
The early game plan, especially in the first quarter, was terrible. You absolutely can fault Corny for not starting HH, and not getting Herbert involved early, regardless of how the rest of the game went.
How can we fault Corny for not starting HH?
Fire Cornelson and replace him with who? Please tell
Lol probably an internal hire giving him his first P5 shot... but that's basically what Cornelson is a way so..
French
Look, UNC is a good team. Guys on here tried to downplay them and say they hadn't played no one and we would roll. I'm not even mad about the loss because I knew they'd be a tough out. But everyone on this website sees UNC as a joke of a team but Mack has them rolling. A lot of people here refuse to acknowledge their talent because he's old. We will be okay. We aren't a great team but we are honestly what we expected. With that being said, I think we're at our ceiling under Fuente. I hope I'm wrong.
I'm not pissed that we lost, it's HOW we lost that bothers me. The D was poorly coached and out of position all day.
Agree, but if there was any team that was going to expose us it'd be UNC but no one wanted to admit that. We're too busy still making fun of them for a game that happened four years ago instead of acknowledging the trajectories our programs are on right now.
People on here have had their heads buried in the sand about where UNC is headed for a while now.
810% right (or whatever it is for recruits now). We bury our head in the sand about everyone now it seems like. I tried to warn folks that UNC was going to be a tough test but folks here said they hadn't played no one. Well guess what? Neither had we lol. So now I'm cool with an L to a top 10 team but everyone else is upset haha.
"cool" with the loss? No, never. Hope you like being right, but my ass is chafed.
Eh, I should say I was chafed but because of my expectations I got over it quicker.
Agreed, unfortunately when we go back to the normal coastal chaos, we may be behind Miami and UNC for a long time.
There won't be the normal chaos. Teams are stepping up and we are falling back. The Coastal glut is going to be a thing of the past, and the top tier is being established without us.
Which is okay because some people on here have said our expectations of competing for the coastal every year are too high. So it's settled.
I don't recall anyone saying that, or that UNC wasn't getting better.
You said that, actually.
Mmmm. I don't remember that. Please provide the reference.
If I did say that, it was probably within the context of people attempting to establish somewhat unrealistic expectations.
And there are certainly some of those here.
As much as I want VT in the conversation, I also want the ACC to be a competitive conference, meaning good teams, with VT at or near the top.
I would like VT to be in the top tier, and that's not unrealistic.
I'd be awfully surprised if I ever said anything that didn't reflect these sentiments.
Link Here
Wow, this was a delicious exchange.
We will definitely be looking up at UNC for a while.
Their top Recruits haven't even seen the field yet, meanwhile the players on the field now for us are from Fuente's "best" Recruiting classes. They are getting more talented...we are Recruiting at the bottom of the ACC.
Miami I am more bearish on---While King has made them look formidable, Diaz is largely considered a lightweight and Lashlee has a mixed record at best...will be interesting to see how well the offense works without King in there. We will see how legit they are tonight.
Because the CONSTANT doom and gloom is tiring. Look around in the world and everything is on fire and then we come here just to have some self-righteous jackass telling us that our entertainment, the thing we use to take a break from all the shit, is not good enough and we are bad people for not "caring" enough or "paying attention". Stop with the bullshit.
At the end of the day, we watch football to have fun. I want to enjoy myself cheering for the Hokies, not worrying about something WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.
If you need us to pretend VT football is good so you can feel better about life then you need to rethink your priorities. No one is going to pity you for coming onto this website voluntarily and thinking everyone is going to paint a pretty picture because that is really freaking hard to do with the way we are trending.
You're really upset
I am really not! I just don't think it's fair for people to come on a VT message board and complain about how people view the program because you need it to be a certain way.
I'm not the one who needs it to be a certain way. I think you have it backwards.
This isn't life or death. It's a game. And telling me that I am wrong for just wanting to watch football and have fun instead of worrying about everything doesn't make sense.
Tell me one actionable step you can personally take right now that will result in either better recruiting or more wins. If you can't, then telling other people that they are stupid for not worrying is asinine. Why worry about something you have no control over?
I agree with you there! This is where I take issue:
If you have a problem with how people approach VT football because it doesn't align with your views then this is not the place to be. And calling people "self righteous jackasses" isn't fair to anyone.
That is a good point. I got unnecessarily upset at Alum's "I told you so" and replied mad. Should have hit backspace a few times in that message. I apologize.
I'm sorry that reality upsets your fragile mind
Cool. Good talk.
All good, no hard feelings here.
I also think there's a difference in talking on a message board and worrying about it. We're all here for the same reason.
It's true. I'm just tired. It's been 3 years of non-stop doom and gloom about coaching and recruiting and fundraising with the only bright spots being the wins, because the losses bring out the complaints even more. I just have heard everything I could about how UNC recruiting will steal everything I hold dear and leave me lifeless.
But, I'm likely overreacting somewhat and will feel better tomorrow.
Let's all just go crack a beer find a front/back porch and take a deep breath. UVA lost, Pitt lost and on top of it miami could get steam rolled tonight. Some fun games were on tv today and let's all relax and enjoy it. The fact we are having football right now is a huge relief for many let's just enjoy it and be happy we have live sports and some normalcy.
I should have changed my shirt earlier. I waited until halftime, but that was a poorly timed in-game adjustment on my part.
I know where I go for my feel goods...and it sure as shit ain't here.
Man that's a lot of entitlement to unpack in one comment
I'm sorry for calling you a jackass. But, don't you find it exhausting to preach doom all the time? Like, it's not really that bad if we only win 8 games in a pandemic. And yeah, our recruiting hasn't been great, but we have guys who want to be Hokies. Can't we celebrate them instead of focusing on what we don't have?
I don't feel entitled to wins or amazing recruiting classes, but I do feel that we are so focused on what we don't have that we are missing the good things that we do have.
And we can't do jack shit to change it, so why worry?
It's not doom and gloom when it's literally the reality that is playing out in front of us.
So no, I don't feel bad for pointing out how things are. It just so happens that nowadays there is more to point out that is a negative about us than positive. I'll be honest, I'm very frustrated to see UNC step up and take that next step that we had the opportunity to take 10-15 years ago and didn't. They are putting it together in recruiting to create something that is lasting. We could have done that. We could have been that team. Hell, 5 years ago we had an opportunity to bring in a new staff and we missed the mark by ignoring the recruiting side of the game. And now we seem to be sliding further and further behind and it sucks.
So no, I'm not going to apologize for saying it. Right now the reality about VT football sucks. We aren't competing at the highest levels anymore. We aren't contending for the best team in the conference, and after today I don't even think we are going to legitimately contend for best team in our division. And we lost the last game against UVa. And our recruiting classes have put up 2 absolute duds in a row.
I can't sit back and pretend things are going well for us when they aren't. We should be better than this, and it frustrates me that the standard for which this program is held seems to be slipping back further and further to explain why the status quo is ok rather than trying to actually shift our program to what it needs to be to contend in the 2020s.
So tell me what any of us can do about it. We likely already donate if we are on this site, very few of us are coaches or could likely do a better job than Whit/Fu, and it's really unlikely that any of us are Boone T Pickens rich.
You are preaching to people who can't do anything about it. All it accomplishes is making people feel bad. A guy watching a building burning who turns to his friend and says "This is all because they didn't use the right insulation. They need to use the fire-resistant stuff next time" isn't helping. He just wants to feel right.
Being unable to directly do anything about it does not negate the right to be frustrated at the current state of this program.
We have been round and round and round all of these points for 3 years and it's obvious they aren't changing. At this point, it's baseline noise on TKP. No one on here is unaware. You can feel however you want, that is your right, but constantly projecting that negativity to people who are already well aware just sucks, man.
We all want better recruiting and a new amazing OC. Let's just be more chill to each other.
This isn't even their final form. All the old head say things like "we've always beat UNC" and "Miami always squandered talent" are the reason we are where we are right now, acting like recruiting isn't the single biggest indicator of success and that VT is magically better able to identify and develop talent and will just magically beat these other teams. Clowns
As bad as the defense was this game I think it's funny people are calling for JHam after the one game he has coached. Do you not think those were his schemes in the first two games??
The defense showed signs of being extremely weak vs the run in both week 1 and 2.
With players JHam and defensive Co. inherited. If the offense can score 42+ points per game (so far this season and stretch that into future years) hopefully it will give the defense time to recruit the players they want.
The D hasn't been great at all this year...if anything it's got worse from game to game.
I'm proud of the way we repeatedly fought back. Expecting guys way down the depth chart to not make mistakes, against a very quality opponent may be unrealistic.
Of course as mentioned many times, it woulda been nice for the broadcast to tell us who is actually out and who is on the field.
While many of you may cope with this......
Ill be coping with this lol.......
I am coping with both. 2x coping mechanisms 2x better.
Lol I'm not an alcohol type of guy my other coping mechanism a plant instead of liquid and is not legal in every state so I cant insert a pic of that but I think you get the idea lmao.
Enjoy your salad!
Skunky funk filled salad
It's that time of year too
You should get Breath of the Wild fam
I've definitely been sinking some hours into it
Beat it 5 times +
BOTW can only be played so many times lol
I'm about to do my third playthrough soon. This time I'll do the Gerudo area first. Yes, I am a crazy person.
The good news:
During my quick visit back to Central Virginia last week, I was surprised with this as a gift
Any good?
it's decent and won't disappoint
Folks, I'm damn proud of our team. We never gave up and if not for some plays, we could have won that game fellow Hokies. Down 15 players, mostly on defense, and we still kept up with those cheats.
GO HOKIES!
I'm proud of our players, but fed up with our coaching staff.
Fuente himself said he was disappointed with both the defense AND THE OFFENSE. You know the head coach? The guy who decides who to recruit on O and D. So this hot take that no one is allowed to criticize cornelson when Fuente himself said he was disappointed with the offense is crap
The good:
- I thought the O played well, including play calling
- loved the onsides kick and going for it on 4th, respect the aggressiveness
- the secondary will improve as we get starters back, won't be as many missed tackles hopefully
- HH looked good except for the wheel route, dunno if bad throw or miscommunication
- another huge long FG
- loved how the team battled back twice and wouldn't lay down when down big
The bad:
- the interior DL and LBs...not sure if it's injuries or conditioning but that was terrible
- the only coaching-related thing I'm really annoyed by is clock management before the half. We had 3 TOs, why not drain more clock and not risk leaving UNC so much time? Infuriating. Could have been a different 2nd half if they don't get that extra TF before halftime.
The offense was frustrating in the first half. I can't easily justify why Burmeister played so much.
Imo the biggest issue is the defense really missed Deablo and Jenkins imo. The front 7 looked about the same, but the safeties weren't flying up and making tackles like they had been the last 2 weeks. Some of that is UNC has great RBs. But, we needed better athletes to take them down. Plus Dax absolutely killed us with false steps and not being athletic enough to handle their RBs.
EDIT: I think the game hinged on that offensive series a true end of the 2nd half. 3rd & 4 we call a bubble to the boundary and 4th & 3 play is a quick slant. 2 plays to get 3 yards and neither is a run, which is our offensive strength. We convert that, it's a completely different game. Instead they go ahead 21 points.
I'm still not sure we stand a chance of winning the game if the first half ends differently but we certainly didn't do ourselves any favors by botching it so badly. The issue I have is that we seem to be talking about exactly these types of botches after every loss. There's just something missing in our program and I'm struggling to see a path forward that will get us over the hump. I feel like we've been stuck in mud since 2016. We have great, promising, performances and then we have complete duds. There doesn't seem to be any progress there...every season has been one step forward and two steps back. When will it start being 3 steps forward? I was hoping this would be that year. But even without COVID, UNC looked like a team that was going to manhandle us no matter what. We're not getting better. They are. And that really really frustrates me.
Ehhh....
Covid caught up to us.
unc is good. But if they are top 10, we're not far from it once healthy. (I'm not sure they are, just saying...)
There are plenty of issues, but this is one of those games that (hopefully) we take it on the chin, fix some stuff, get healthy and then go win....
Guess we're not making the playoffs this year.
I blame this loss squarely on the guys that couldn't figure out how to upvote correctly in the #25 thread. /s (sorta)
I blame it on a messed up first post in the game thread. ( but that's fixable!)
I think this is what we can expect under Fuente for the foreseeable future. We can look good beating bad teams. Really good teams are going to beat our guys. This is a team which is capable of moving the ball and scoring but as is often the case it's usually too little too late. I think under Fuente this is a 7-8 win team pretty much year in and year out. If we have a really experienced roster with one or two real difference makers we might sniff 10 wins but the normal expectation should be 7-8. I hate that I'm saying this but I think this is just who we are right now. We're not a really good team. We can be good on some Saturdays but we're not going to beat well coached, talented teams. Not without some miracles. And until things change, either in recruiting, or staff personnel, I wouldn't expect anything more.
I'm not even upset at this loss. We knew UNC had a good offense and our defense has been depleted for 3 weeks in a row. The defense is exhausted. Meanwhile UNC had plenty of time to game plan for this game.
Are there things that need to improve? Hell yeah. I'm not a Corny fan but the offense did put up points. The defense needs to rest and regroup. I'm glad the players and coaches don't give up as quick as some of the "fans".
This is a good point about the defense being depleted physically after three weeks being short handed. I don't think our defense is good but I think we are better than we showed today. Guys have missed lots of conditioning and practice over the last month as covid has worked through the locker room.
We've got to start winning recruiting battles. Asante was a stud for unc today. Poole shouldn't be going to ncst. These are the difference makers that take us from 7-8 wins to 9-10. I urge everyone to donate to the HC this week. It's the only thing we can do to make an impact.
Since this is the vent thread I'll let out a little steam on what I think was a big no call. That block in the back on Daz's last TD by Dyami was blatant. If it's called and we hold them to a FG maybe we pull this game out... I know it may seem small but it was right in front of the ref and Waller makes that tackle for loss without the block...
or the numerous pass interference no calls...how about the CB for unc all over Tre's back on the 4 and 3 at the end of second quarter...but officiating is what it is.
Huge swing play! He was hanging all over Tres hips while the ball was in the air.
The ball was completely uncatchable. The official can't throw a flag there.
You can call defensive holding. he was all over his back the entire play, literally hanging on his waist.
It was inside 5 yards, no official is going to call that. In the end, it was a softly run route (Tre doesn't seem fully healthy) and a poorly thrown ball.
Yeah forgot about that play. If we get that call UNC has no time left for the Dyami TD before half... Huge no call...
Yep....I called this out in the In Game thread. Horrible no call. Obvious block in the back right as the pass was caught, which sprang the receiver foe the TD.
We would have had "a shot" to win if we played Hooker the entire game instead of that foolishness in the first half. He's our best QB. If he suits up, you play him. This isn't hard. But I say "a shot" because that's all you going to have when the defense plays that atrociously bad. The 2ndary is depleted with covid stuff and that is a significant part of it, but a large part was the rest of the guys just got their asses kicked and when they were down on the ground trying to find their ass, they got kicked again. No pressure, no ability to make tackles, nothing. Based on last year, you could figure it was going to be a high scoring game (which is why Hooker should have played from the start), but you don't expect to be embarrassed as badly as they were. They looked like 8th graders playing the varsity squad
I don't understand Fuente's issue with HH. It's like he will only play him once every other option proves to be poor. I gave him a pass for the Duke game thinking maybe HH was still dealing with rust/symptoms of whatever kept him out wk1. But after the way BB played against Duke you have to go to HH to start the UNC game. You can't afford to fall behind on the road to a O as good as UNCs even without fans.....
That's my biggest takeaway too. Fuente is so hesitant to trust Hendon when as a fan I have seen nothing to make me doubt him. Then Fuente gives a long leash and heaps of trust to two subpar competitors who obviously held the O back. It's frustrating for me, and I can't imagine how it makes HH feel. If it happens again I wouldn't be surprised if HH just decides to up and transfer.
What are we even doing with Fuente and his staff? What is the goal? If it's win 6-8 games and get to the bowl he is doing a good job.
If it's compete for the ACC championship he's doing a bad job. This was supposed to be the year with a veteran team. And they just shit the bed against UNC.
If there is one bed shitting game every year then he has to go. Pitt in 2018, Duke in 2019, UNC in 2020.
Coaching is fucking trash. We need complementary football to keep the defense off the field, so we have some dumb QB rotation that doesn't work.
The D line and LBs got destroyed today. No effort. They should be embarrassed, maybe even cut from the team. Didn't even try to compete.
I don't get the sense that Fuente is building anything.
Regardless of what you think about Fuente, we are stuck with him for another year. This pandemic is going to put a hard freeze on major coaching moves.
Year? With that buyout and our financial "issues", he's a lifer.
Lol we don't have financial issues. Don't buy into fireman's spiel
Hope you're joking...we're going to lose $30-40M.
Oh yea because of COVID. But everyone across the board will suffer significant losses. I was referring to our business as usual
That's fair. And I'm probably being overly harsh given the COVID situation. But all teams have generally the same circumstances.
UNC made our defense look like a middle school JV squad. They had 650 yards of offense. This can't be explained by ejections, injuries, COVID issues.
Why are other ACC schools recruiting and developing players better?
Why does VT football play like ass in big games?
Coaching and recruiting simply isn't good enough to be better than a mediocre football team.
The only thing that stopped the UNC offense today was themselves. I think they only had 4 drives that didn't end in a TD, one as they kneeled out the clock, and two that were wide open drops by a receiver on 3rd down.
Our defense is what it is. Not good. And it's kind of expected when you see how poorly we've recruited on that side of the ball.
The scary thing is I don't think this qualifies as his bed shitting game. UNC is #8 and playing at home. There is a BC/L'Ville or dare I say UV.... nope I'm not going there..
I don't know if anyone's mentioned it, so I'll say it here, and hopefully bring a bit of levity...
Dax played better with long hair.
stop trying to make people smile...we must burn the program down. /s
I noted that during the game myself. Thanks for saying it.
I'm a long-haired dude myself.
The hair is powerful, man.
Garbage post.
A third of the starting defense is walk-ons and 2nd/3rd string due to covid. We're playing the second best QB in the conference, Not sure what you expected?
They've had one bad game... If you thought that a new staff was going to replace one of (if not the) best DC of the last 25 years, and not skip a best, then your expectations were unrealistic.
He's right. The defense this year is bad. And the front 7 were mostly starters today, and were completely blown off the ball all game long.
Remember, this same UNC offense scored 24 against BC last week. Yet they weren't stopped once by VT; they had two wide open drops that would have been first downs, plus the kneel down at the end of the game.
It'll be interesting to see how UNC's offense fairs going forward. Tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if they were holding back a significant portion of their offensive schemes against cuse/BC knowing they had Tech coming up. Based solely on preseason projections, one could easily assume UNC as a top 25 team shouldnt have any issues beating BC/cuse with half a playbook.
Prior to this game, they were 0-4 vs Fuente with 2 of those games being outright embarrassments for them. They had a score to settle and we were vunerable. It happens
Depends what you consider bad... due to the staff change, the scheme change, and the lack of spring practice, I've been saying fielding a defense outside of top 40 would be bad, a defense inside the top 35 would 'meet expectations', and fielding a top 25 would be a huge success. Time will tell if this defense is top 40 when healthy, or closer to 2018.
OP said "It's been bad all year and I can't blame COVID for how bad we were manhandled by UNC" - The 'it's been bad all year' part is categorically false; prior to the UNC game, our defense was top 25 per SP+. As far as the 'can't blame covid part,' I'll address that below:
You can't look at the score in a vacuum, and I can't stress this enough. Against BC, UNC had 10 penalties for 96 yards, a missed field goal, a botched kickoff return (that led to BC's first touchdown), and a fumble.
Yea, BC's defense performed better than we did. But again, what did you expect given the talent drop off in the secondary (caused by COVID)? A bad secondary (obviously) hurts us when defending the pass, but it also hurts us in run support - a bad secondary is what turns a 5 yard run into a 20 yard run. A lack of bodies results in tired players who give up 14 points in the 4th quarter after coaches made some decent half time adjustments.
At the end of the day, we got shredded by a top 10 offense (again, per SP+) with an extraordinarily depleted defense... I'm not sure why anyone is surprised? Was it worse than I thought it would be? Yes. Did I think we'd hold one of the best offenses in the country under 40 with a depleted secondary? No.
Another point I've been thinking about with the defense is that COVID/contract tracing means players miss games, but also practice and opportunities to workout. I think conditioning is a huge factor here, especially in the secondary. Matheny is a walk-on who plays with a ton of heart but isn't the fastest, strongest, or surest tackler on the first snap of the game. In the 4th quarter when he's gotten no rest? Forget about it. And players who have missed time are not in the best shape possible AND have to play longer with less resting. The defense did not play well, but I'm not sure they could have put together 4 solid quarters under circumstances like these.
100% agree, and I'm guessing (no #sauces) that this is why HH didn't start until the second half - my guess is Fuente didn't believe HH was in good enough shape to play a full four quarters.
Yeap - I tried not to mention lack of conditioning, because every team (including UNC) had to miss spring ball and summer workouts. But this problem is compounded by lack of depth (which when combined with a lack of skill can really hurt).
Not even that mad...the rona attrition got us finally. The teams we have beaten have some solid wins under their belts since they played us. But yeah not starting Hooker is a huge OOOF
It would appear, at first glance, that Tech got what they paid for in hiring a DC with ten total months of FBS experience. COVID sucks, but every team in the country is dealing with the issue, and Tech just seems worse than most at getting their arms around the problem.
This wasn't week one. Tackling and execution, albeit against less fearsome offenses, was SO much better the last two weeks. There is no possible excuse for this kind of defensive effort. Replay of Pitt 2018.
I wasn't happy with the Hamilton hire when it was announced, and I have less confidence now. You returned most of your starters; you have seniors and juniors across the front seven; and this is what you come up with?
It was a bad idea to have the head coach pick the second most important figure for the football staff when he was actively searching the classifieds for other coaching gigs. I can't name one time Fuente has exceeded expectations; and we are stuck with him for a while.
Being a fan of this program has become so damn frustrating.
Yeah, except Foster was the guy that recommended JHam. Fuente stayed, and had to know that his success at Tech would depend in some part on the hire, so don't kid yourself that it was a blowoff hire. And apart from having kids out from week to week, not practicing and not being able to keep in top condition, our best defensive player, who came back to play for JHam rather than enter the draft decided to sit out because of the pandemic.
We are NOT the only team in the country dealing with COVID and yes, are having a tougher time than other schools, but our football coaches had no say on whether the university sent students home or not.
That's true, Fuente hitched his wagon to Hamilton. And Justin should take the blame and accept the consequences of what happens if this turns out to have been a bad hire. After giving up almost 60 points, 600 yards and 10 yards a play, there's really no excuse. Fuente has shown plenty of times that he is not capable of rising to the moment. We aren't shrugging off a 34-31 loss; we are talking about Tech looking feckless on the defensive side of the ball in a top 20 rivalry game. There's no excuse.
I'm shocked too that people are shrugging this off. "We were dealing with Covid" "First game as DC" "Recruiting will fix this"
We looked completely inept on defense against an in conference rival with huge implications for regional recruiting. So many in this fan base just want to justify the status quo, and the bar is getting so unbelievably low. We are constantly making excuses. We used to be a conference and national contender, we are a shell of the program we once were, and it's not getting better anytime soon with this staff and this level of recruiting.
Losing this game last year didn't hurt UNCs recruiting against us the last 2yrs. We got to stop making excuses for us not getting our targeted recruits. Even though I believe we win that game yesterday with a full deck, I can't help thinking that no matter the outcome a recruit watches that game and thinks UNCs O looks exciting and creative while VTs looks boring and blah. As a former WR I would rather be in UNCs O..... and I'm a Tech fan
1) Theres a reason why Foster wasn't a head coach
2) TG was a guy Foster believed in, too, and he was run out of town
3)JHam was NOT our first choice in this search. We missed our number one and basically gave up
To be fair, we really don't know what happened with the DC search. For all we know, Fu could've been planning on JHam all along, but then Odom became available, and you have to at least gauge that interest.
This is generally my recollection of how things went from the hints and insight given by insiders at the time. We were going with J Ham, who was heavily recommended by Bud, then Odom became available and we made a serious run based upon Fu's previous connections with him. In the end we were simply outbid by Arkansas, so we went back with J Ham.
I do wonder about the decision to undergo a radical schematic overhaul at the time your offensive development and personnel are peaking. Teerlinck had to be a Fu call based upon their previous connections. What we are now attempting to implement is such a radical shift from Bud, and I don't think we have the players to make it happen. A change like this is something you would expect during a 2018-type rebuilding year, but now to go through this when the offense is hitting its stride? It will take several years to turnover the personnel, and I have a difficult time seeing it happen given the trajectory of recruiting.
When your offense is doing well seems like a great time to shift. The alternative is doing it when the offense is bad, or at least not great. That seems like you would have tons of losses, and given how little leeway people have given Fuente to rebuild, not sure when it should have happened - his first year? It's not like the timing was up to Fuente. Foster had to retire at some point, and everyone was ecstatic Fuente got him to stay when he got here. The only way for Fuente to have had control over the timing would have been to let Bud go.
You make solid points, as I somewhat question the complete scheme change as well.
I guess the question is..if not now, then when? Do we run a modified-Foster scheme for 1-2 years and recruit guys to play in the new system...and how do you run a practice like that?
While BF's scheme was highly successful (if you just forget 2018), I think there was growing concern that we could not Recruit well with it. We also really struggled to consistently stop mobile QB and designed QB runs in particular under BF. On the DL, particularly, that was being borne out.
I was certainly hoping this process was going to be more of a Remodel than a Rebuild, but yesterday (and truthfully everything since the 1st half of NCSU) has exposed some glaring deficiencies..it looks like a tear-down is in order.
Like others have astutely stated, our current Recruiting level and trajectory doesn't give warm and fuzzies on a Defensive Rebuild.
I'm happy UNC finally snapped their streak. They've got a great team and great coaching staff.
I feel great about our potential because the team never quit.
I feel great that hendon hooker might be even better than I thought he was.
This should be this seasons teachable moment.
Love you guys
Love you back.
It's all good...
I just finished watching the game because I had another commitment until 2pm. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the myopic chicken little analysis, but I don't know what people expected. VT was essentially playing with 10 1/2 players on D - at best - against a team with much better than average players at 5 skill positions.
It's hard enough to try to hide 1 totally overmatched player, but VT needed to hide 2 or 3 players on D due to depletions. I have no doubt the coaching staff know going in they were going to give up really big yards. There simply wasn't enough talent or experience or depth in the secondary to expect any more.
But i suspect they also knew the offense would put up yardage as well and they were simply hoping UNC would shoot itself in the foot enough times with mistakes and turnovers for VT to win a shootout.
Given the roster situation, they had no choice but to roll the dice on something - and I think they picked the best of the bad options. The problem is UNC didn't cooperate enough with just the onside kick and a few drops and penalties.
I think straight-up with normal personnel, this game would have been a cage match.
This is a legit post. You can sometimes hide 1 player, but not several.
Agree on the personnel issue, it is hard to hide guys that dont match up well. UNC has fast playmakers, a great QB, and they got their players in one on one situations with our inferior guys . We were overmatched today.
Our d line seemed overpowered at times, and our backers cant run side to side with quick athletes and seem lost . I wonder if the backers are having a rough time since our defensive scheme has changed. The backers may just not work in this new system.
Again, when you're trying to hide a player(s), you've got to compensate somewhere you ordinarily wouldn't. Just as much as one player can make everybody's job easier, one player can also make everybody else's job harder.
I wouldn't necessarily draw too many conclusions about the defensive scheme just yet.
This is what I was wondering. I missed the start of the game so I didn't know who was out besides Deablo. Matheny is a great story but that story needs to go back to the bench and STs play. He missed so many tackles. I'm not blaming him exclusively because there were multiple players missing tackles but he is my focus because he is filling in for the safety that I expect to finish those plays for 3yd gains instead of allowing 15+yd runs....
Can we finally bury the white helmet white shirt and orange pants combo?
I'm as big a critic of the offensive side of the ball as anyone, but I was really impressed with them today. I would have started HH, but can't blame them for sticking with BB. The one question I would have is the lack of Herbert usage at the beginning. I think we may have outsmarted ourselves there, which I think Khalil demonstrated once he got going.
One thing HH has to start doing is making decisions quicker in the passing game. He needs to hit a couple of reads and then let it go or takeoff and get some yards. Don't get behind in down and distance by incompletions or taking sacks. Other than a couple instances of that, great first game back IMO.
The D on the other hand, oooh boy! I think the LB's andDB's were super exposed today. I thought all the LB's showed their shortcomings today, but man, I thought Dax was really bad. Really seemed to have some seriously poor awareness. And the DB's were terribly exposed in both the run and the pass. Time and time again the DB's couldn't get off WR blocks downfield. It was infuriating to watch. Dazz was housing them by receptions as well as blocking. It was eye opening, and I think a problem that will be hard to solve with the current personnel. The only personnel loss today that I think makes any difference was Deablo.
Ashby, Dax, Conner, Waller, etc all seemed to be getting dominated today.
I'm very anxious to read French's review, and hopefully he sees fixable mistakes rather than physical limitations.
Early UNC was loading the box with 8 defenders on 1st and 2nd down, daring BB to beat them through the air. They knew he couldn't.
I know, but that really didn't change when Herbert got going. That was their defensive formation for most of the game. That was what i was saying about outsmarting ourselves. The box was loaded, so we let UNC dictate that we weren't going to use our best weapon on practically every 1Q drive. When we eventually did though, the OL blocked and Herbert ran patiently and hit the holes when they opened.
This is an example of the income stream generated by something close to Clemson's IPTAY.
If you start out with getting an average of 5000 members of each incoming class to donate $10 while in college and then increase their donation $10/year once they become an alumni, relatively small donations per capita becomes a massive income stream.
Yep.
But we can't replicate IPTAY for some unknown reason.
Are you advocating for donating to the athletic program? Isn't on the University to advocate for themselves.
Yes I'm advocating for donating to athletics, specifically football. Everyone thinks our only hope for raising money lies in the big donors becoming even bigger donors. This ends up leading people to think their small donation is inconsequential. The point of this post is to show people the only way we are going to improve fundraising is by everyone making it a priority to give even a little bit. I am going to try and get 5 hokies to start donating $100/year and encourage them to do the same. Waiting for the university to beg us to give is the reason we are so far behind. I understand the frustration of not having a competent fundraising apparatus to lead the charge but refraining from donating out of protest doesn't help either.
Thanks for the data. I switched up the HTML to use some of TKP's css.
Let me say I've been super negative about this game, more so than I probably should be... but I have to say, thank god Pat Narduzzi is not our coach. That guy is terrible.
How salty was he after his team got beat this week?
Haven't even heard anything, but saw before the game that he was reportedly shitting on the BC quarterback, saying he thinks he's better than Pitt since he chose BC over them, and all that nonsense. I know we've lost out on some recruits, but at least Fuente isn't personally subtweeting every minor slight and recruiting battle lose, while barely performing above .500.
We lost to a TOP 10 team by 11 while our defense had a historically bad performance... The hokies showed great resilience on offense and special teams.
Say what you want about Mack but he is a HoF coach for a reason. It's hard for me to not feel optimistic about this team once they are fully healthy.
We really lost by 18 if we are being honest with ourselves. They 100% could have punched that in if they wanted to.
Their coordinators are pretty damn good too...batemen and longo, I think. Both have probably gotten some interest from some blue bloods
Maybe I'm not as bummed out because (1) I expected a loss on the road against a higher ranked team that has more talent than we do and (2) I missed half of the game with family commitments, but I'm not that bummed.
For one, the team did not fold up and die like they have plenty of times the past couple of years. Second, they were able to run the ball well. When we had a great run game against NC State, I was taking a wait and see approach as we've heard that we will have a good offensive line before and they have not been any good. Said that if we put up similar numbers against Duke and UNC I'd be believing. Against a top 10 team we piled up yards.
The next 4 games are all very winnable. Get the job done with no WTF losses and be sitting at 6-1. Just 1 upset win and the team has a real good year with (I hope) some momentum going forward. yes, the defense was terrible and yes some coaching decisions are ... curious. But I think we have a chance going forward. Need to respond well in the next game and get back to winning. Start a losing streak, and then I will be much more critical and concerned, but I can live with this game.
I really appreciate this take.
I think the frustrating thing for me is what this game tells us about the future. UNC is headed in one direction and VT is headed in another. UNC is quickly rising and VT is at best plateauing. I do expect us to rebound this season, but I'm not sure how things look over the next 3-4 years.
We definitely need to finish strong and carry that momentum over into recruiting victories going forward. If we can win at least 8 games during the regular season and win a bowl game (assuming we have those this season) then we will have improved 2 years running. But yes, you are so totally right that it cannot just be bouncing back this year. We have to get into the top half of the ACC in recruiting and do it fast or 8-9 wins probably will be Fuente's ceiling however long he is here as HC. And if the team slips back to winning something like 6 or 7 games total, I want him gone as soon as we can afford to get rid of him. Just cautiously optimistic that we will see more positives than negatives the rest of the year.
Are we really plateauing? We put up 45points against a (what appears to be legit) top 10 team. Almost our entire defensive staff turned over last year, we haven't had the chance to really recruit guys to play in a different playing style, and we've been eviscerated on defense due to COVID. If we keep up the scoring and can get some solid D going (we were leading the nation in average sacks/game coming into this game), I still feel like we're getting better. I know that seems hard to believe after this game, but what if UNC puts themselves in the playoffs this year and a bunch of their team enters the draft next year? What if we win out, even against Clemson? What if we get UNC in the ACCCG with a healthy defense and get a few stops and can still put up similar points? The season ain't over, and we are scoring a ton of points per game, which was one of the big complaints coming into this year.
I think so. This is Fuente's year (regardless of COVID). This is his team. These are his players. Valiant effort today for sure. But our recruiting has taken a nosedive while UNC's has quickly elevated. Unless there's some Bronco like player development or massive recruiting wins, we aren't getting better as a program.
I'd caution us as fans making every game, every season, every recruiting class a referendum on a Fuente and the entire football program. I have no idea what direction this season goes from here. I think Fu and the rest of the coaches are capable of getting better and will grow.
You're right about recruiting but we've got to give JHam and the new guys some time. We don't have the luxury of bag men and big shot recruiters like unc. I think we've got 4 nfl offensive lineman (Tenuta, darrisaw, nester, and Hoffman). Mitchell and Gallo will also be nfl players. I think Tre will be too. That will help us sell offensive recruits. Hopefully the new defensive system can follow suit. It took Vice 5 years to build the O-Line. I expect it'll take another 3-4 years for the defense. Hopefully we can do enough to field an average D until then and let the offense carry the load.
I think you added to and reinforced my point well!
I'm certainly about time. I just happen to think the trajectory isn't as sunny as some folks would like to think. Now we have two regional schools that will be national powers thus making recruiting, which is already difficult for this staff, a whole lot more difficult.
I have no idea where the season will go. I think it will be as strong one. I just think we've hit a ceiling with Fuente, and especially now since UNC is taking control of the Coastal.
The seeds of these down recruiting years are going to rear their ugly head in a few seasons. Plateauing would be a great thing to happen to us considering that lol.
So..while we scored 45...we gave up 56 and by all rights should have been 63 to a team that won 3 games 2 years ago.
In two years, that team has surpassed on the field and is miles ahead of us in Recruiting.
We have plateued...we are a mid-range Coastal team and there simply aren't players in the wings with the likelihood to change that.
So what if their team was a 3 win team 2 years ago? What does that matter about anything? UVA won the coastal last year with their QB. He's gone, and they ain't winning it this year. UNC has a really good QB. Once he leaves, will their team be as good? If we can put up 45 points on almost every team this year, we'll be in the running for the top, not mucking about in the middle.
....looks at 247 Recruiting rankings....umm...well
Pretty much, yeah. You could make a strong argument that they will be even better.
Uva has never, ever Recruited the type of talent UNC has been assembling. That's not a valid comparison whatsoever
Looks at recruiting rankings - Dax was supposed to be a good LB.
This does not help your argument like you think it does lol
My point is that just because teams have better recruiting rankings doesn't mean they're going to lead the ACC or coastal (how many times did we beat FSU when they had 5 stars all over the field? Miami hasn't been the best team in the coastal despite their recruiting rankings. Just because UNC has good recruits doesn't mean they'll be as good once Howell leaves.
This was kind of a shot at Dax. I had high hopes for him when he was a freshman, but just using him as an example.
No, but it gives them a much higher chance of doing it. Which is essentially what people are saying here. Gun to your head; would you rather VT continue recruiting as it is or would you like for them to recruit at UNC's level? And which gives us a better outcome as a program?
You don't get better when you lose a QB like Howell. Look at LSU. UNC has turned around their recruiting but they aren't Clemson. There is no TLawrence replacing Howell. They will take a step back because they will lose their RB, WRs and QB at the same time....
Unless you recruit another one like him. They already have a Blue Chip QB in the wings. UNC is doing Clemson-like things on the recruiting trail. Ignoring that will only serve to disappoint you in the future.
They have 2 blue chip recruits to choose from
Just want to point out to OP that J Ham does NOT need to get his guys in. We had 8 returning starters on this defense and brought in some good transfers. (They haven't all been healthy together but today we had 7 of 8.) I don't see him getting a better roster than this year/next year anytime soon
Yeah that was a point I didn't elaborate on cause I did in the game thread...the fact that Bud got more out of mostly this same group in the front 7 is worrisome for whatever J Ham wants to do.
The positive is that we have a good offense and can move the ball. Power running game like we haven't had in years. Hooker looked really good in the second half and is clearly understanding the offense. Unless he gets hurt, he's clearly best QB and we should ride or die with him going forward. Down side is front seven of defense. Really bad today. Secondary...who the hell knows since we have not seen anything close to a full secondary yet. Can't really fault third stringers or walk on being forced to play.
That brings me to the big issue...why are we having double digit sidelined players? Great majority of P5s we like to compare ourselves with have nothing like this. Heard from a very reliable source several weeks ago that players were all over the place, including going to covid hotspot beaches and there was little, if any, leadership taking place. Some players couldn't believe it was happening, but little accountability going on apparently and this was before students were back on campus. Perhaps Farley really was on to something?
Maybe it has to do with testing protocols that are different...I don't know, but, until we get that issue somehow figured out, we will struggle. I see it as a leadership issue, though maybe I'll lose some legs on that. Somehow most P5 programs seem to have figured it out. Go Hokies!
100%. We've rescheduled a game due to COVID impacts and have been missing double-digit players in the games we are able to play. I've seen comments that other teams are affected too, with one or two examples of other teams missing double-digit players, but out of 120+ other teams, we seem to be an outlier.
What about that players-only meeting during fall camp about accountability and taking care of business (re: covid)? What are we doing or not doing differently that other teams seem to have figured out?
Why is this so difficult for people to understand? How many P5 schools sent their entire student bodies home other than the football players? I'm not going to do the research because you didn't do it about how many other teams are postponing or having double digit players sit out. I'm sure it's more than you think. Plus, and I've said it before, but I'll say it again. How hard is it to avoid people and do everything right when you live in a dorm and have to go to a dining hall 3-5 times a day for food? Here's a link about impacts. If you want to compare us to someone, maybe ND who probably had playoff aspirations, and they had 29 people out between positive tests and contact tracing.
The NFL is even having problems again. (Google "NFL COVID" to get an idea).
It's difficult to understand because I watch some of most of the ACC games and, other than Notre Dame, I don't see any of those teams missing double digit players each week. Some have sent students home, but most haven't. Whether its on the coaches, the players or testing protocols, contact tracing rules, etc, I'm not sure, only know what I heard about pretty undisciplined even before students got back.
We don't have to agree, just my opinion, but, again IMO, clearly something is different at VT, and, unless and until they figure it out, we are gonna struggle based on the chaos uncertainty that goes with it. Lots beyond covid with the defense, but having to play third stringers on back 4 every week sure doesn't help. Hopefully, the offense can stay healthy and on the field, because they are very good and should keep the team in any game. Go Hokies!
Clemson apparently had a lot of cases early, so that probably clears those guys from having to sit out. NC state had to postpone the first scheduling of the game with us, so they couldn't field a team. Baylor has completely shut down football. Here's a link to games that have been postponed. Apparently most of LSU's team had it, so they won't have guys have to sit out. We also don't know how many other schools may have had it bad already, but it was before the season so they are the beneficiaries of timing (unless it was intentional). UVA had 7 players sit out, so will be interesting to see if their cases increase as well.
The Big 10 hasn't even played yet, so we don't know whether they're having problems or not. Just because we are having a lot of guys out now doesn't mean other teams won't in the future or didn't have their kids already get it. Plus, if MOST of LSU's team got it, they either did it intentionally or were incredibly careless. We also don't know how many of our guys are out from contact tracing or positive tests. From being able to play, positive tests with no symptoms would be better because then they don't have to test for 90 days.
A couple of us have been replying to this very point that you raised in another thread.
To recap there, Arkansas State and Louisiana Tech both played games down 20 players. The Vandy/Mizzou game this weekend is postponed, due to issues on both sides. Both teams were missing 20+ players last week. Georgia Southern played a game without 30+ players.
Not to mention all of the teams who had multiple players out during the offseason, so they didn't have to worry about actual games.
Plus schools aren't consistent in how they release or report numbers, nor are they required to be.
Most positive vent thread I've ever read. I agree with the general sentiment that this game was both frustrating yet kind of expected, and lady luck was not on our side. This team would have had some flaws without covid (only so many excuses you can make about the linebacker play for example). With Covid, we caught a good team at a bad moment and still fought hard.
How might this have turned out differently if we'd had Farley, DD, and Waller all starting? I feel like COVID has really fucked us over this year, from a number of perspectives. Agree on LB play specifically, that hurts us big, and Dax was one of the jewels of his recruiting class if I'm not mistaken. And remember how Farley did his first year. I think Strong and Jenkins will wind up being really good for us in a year or two.
I'd say I'm most disappointed with some of the Hokie fans here, not with this team, or this game, or our coaches. Look around the damn country right now. This season/year is a shit show everywhere, or it will be soon, and there will be a lot more crazy to come from this college football season (upsets, high scores, etc.). Yes, our DL and LBs were terrible and there is concern there, but outside of that, we were basically playing decent high school kids against NFL caliber athletes in the secondary and I'm not really sure what you expect the outcome of that to be? You really think we can field a team that depleted and win every week? Despite that though, and despite the incredible adversity our team has faced for 5 straight weeks in a row (if you count the canceled games), we have a team that plays for one another and doesn't give up, and really, considering how many people are playing that shouldn't be playing, has played pretty damn well so far for 3 weeks. I mean, think about how many people we have been without, or have had to play on short notice for 3 straight weeks. Not to mention, the lack of practice those kids have been getting. And, despite having 23, 21, and 15 missing (more if you count Hunter and Farley) we are 2-1. With the only loss coming to a team we all hate, but that ism a good team. I mean, the fact that our coaches have continued to find a way to get this team ready and to be competitive pretty much despite all that, makes me feel good about our future, not bad. Y'all wanna act like the state of VT football is in complete disarray, and that one loss is indicative of so much more tho. I'd say it's more like your lack of understanding outside of yourself and your sense of entitlement is more indicative of why you're not happy, because I am proud of this team today and so far with this season. However, I continue to be disappointed by adults in general in 2020.. SMH.
I think we as a fan base have become so hypersensitive to anything negative basically from the day Devyn Ford ditched us for Penn St. onward.
That being said, it's not like we're playing unbeatable juggernauts out there... not until December 5th at least, and I think we should expect our guys to be more competitive. I mean UNC was without 3 starters on D today and they did enough to win.
That's fair about UNC, but were they without the people behind those starters too and did the people subbing for them have practice time, or at least a year of experience, etc.? I mean, I get it, we want to beat UNC and we have 4 out of 5 years under Fuente. However, there's a lot of people bashing the coaches this week and not giving them the excuses for the same things they were praising them for overcoming the last two weeks - covid, etc. Just because someone is beatable, doesn't mean we're going to do it, or that if we don't it's indicative of something broken within our system. This is a once in a generation situation we're all in and there's chaos everywhere, and I think everyone needs to just chill the hell out.
What's the deal with all these internet white knights coming to a message board vent thread literally titled with "vent" and hating on fans for venting. Start your white knight thread and let us know how much better a fan you are by putting "fan" in quotations.
Things should take a turn for the better with an ACC murderers row of BC, Wake and Louisville coming up, followed by Liberty. If we aren't 6-1 after that stretch we'll really have a reason to bitch.
If we continue to be out 1x-2x players due to COVID issues, we'll lose more games. That's just not sustainable for against P5 teams.
Stewed over the game a little more last night and this morning. Like many have said, offensively there is a ton to be positive about. Credit where credit is due, this team could have simply folded and gotten blown out. But the staff made adjustments and the players on O showed a ton of heart. We really do have a lot of nice pieces on that side of the ball. HH should be the unquestioned starter moving forward.
However, at this point, I do not trust Corn/Fu whatsoever in their situational awareness or personnel decisions. I defended BB last week because although he didn't set the world on fire, I felt there were a ton of drops and other than a few questionable decisions, he didn't put the ball in too many bad spots. Yesterday - oof. He is incredibly limited as a passer, and once HH came in, it was plain and clear that he is a better QB and makes this offense better. What little benefit BB adds from better speed in the read option game does not outweigh Hooker's arm talent and his own run threat ability. Highly questionable gameplan to start rolling with BB and not giving Herbert significant touches until the end of the 1st half. I don't know if we just outsmarted ourselves yesterday or someone is just making plainly bad decisions on O, but we are a talented and potentially really good unit with some questionable decision making at the top.
On D, absolutely horrendous, there's not much more to say. The scary part is the talent differential. We didn't even look like we belonged on the same field. And extremely disappointing to see a highly rated recruit like Dax look completely clueless and outmuscled on the field. We just don't have the personnel to run this defense, and I don't know that we are going to be able to fix it any time soon given our recruiting. We want big, fast, rangey athletes - well so does everyone else in the country. And not only just personnel - I'm also concerned about coaching. Several times you would see two or three wideouts lined up with only one or two defenders covering on that side. We played extremely soft coverage and left the quick slants and screens open all day long. And playing so far off the receivers we STILL were beat deep.
The lack of recruiting is catching up with the staff. I'm already seeing the wheel of excuses spinning, including COVID. Don't want to hear it - every team in the country has had to deal with this virus. Having our safeties may have helped a few long plays, but our front 7 was completely mauled yesterday. That isn't going to be fixed anytime soon. The difference between recruiting and coaching at a high level and not was on full display yesterday.
Just read the toxic Twitter responses to Joe's post last night and it got me fire up in the wrong way. 2 weeks ago the collective was praising the great job the coaches did in getting this team to play undermanned. 2 weeks later we're roasting the same coaches for not having them prepared, still undermanned, and I'm calling BS .... I'm pretty sure the coaching hasn't changed that quickly to go from a world-beating defense to one that can't put up a fight against an conference foe - we simply ran in to a well prepared, well coached, team that is more deserving that their #8 ranking than i believed going in to the game. I think there's a few things that everyone needs to remember and take away from yesterday's game.
Assuming Hooker gets a full 4 quarters of play I think our offense will continue with the point outputs. My concern is can we have extended drives that result in points when we need to give the defense a breather.
I agree with all that you stated but the decision to stay with BB to start this game. After watching BB against Duke I saw nothing that made me think he could win against a average team, let alone a really good team. Duke is really bad and we almost lost that game. I didn't know if HH could beat UNC but I felt confident that BB couldn't....
I really think Fuente puts a lot of pressure on himself to establish continuity at the quarterback position, but it leads to what looks like total boneheaded personnel decisions. Ryan Willis had no business starting over Hendon Hooker. He was a turnover machine, and the team stumbled out to a 2-2 start. Burmeister had to start against NC State and Duke because of Hooker's health, but like you said, not a single thing pointed to him being the long term solution. Fast forward to this week and we're down 21-0 before we can even get a first down. Then when Burmeister finally leads us down the field for a touchdown, he is replaced with Hooker who promptly goes 3 and out before letting Burmeister finish the half. Hooker should have been the guy from the start, but if the plan was to get him in at some point, the middle of Burmeister establishing a rhythm was not that time. Halftime was that time.
I second this
Don't go to Hokie Twitter right now in general. There are some pretty ugly accusations being thrown Fuente's way right now that is just not a good look.
Hokie fans on Twitter are the worst fans from any fan base imho
My mistake was pulling up the responses. Nothing that TKP feed posted was wrong or off-base, but the responses were venomous.
Two years ago in 2018, UNC was 2-9. The year before that they were 3-9. No one was really that upset in their fanbase because they're a basketball school. Clearly something had to be done because you can't be combining for five wins in two seasons, but I don't think many people in their fanbase cared if they were elite or not by 2020. Their athletic department, however, did. They hire Mack Brown. They make the money work to where he can hire good assistants. Overnight recruits wanted to play there. Now, in 2020, they're a top ten team. TWO YEARS REMOVED FROM A 2-9 SEAEON, A BASKETBALL SCHOOL HAS A TOP TEN FOOTBALL TEAM.
I don't know what Whit needs to do. Brown was hired before COVID put a leash on what a lot of athletic departments can do. What I do know is that it's year five, and I still don't see any way this program can excel. We've seen seven historic losses in the last three seasons counting this one. 2018: ODU, GT, and Pitt were all historically bad for the defense. 2019: Duke fiasco, first loss to UVA since 2003, and Bowden Jr's record setting bowl performance. And now 2020: we have probably the worst defensive performance since 1987.
On top of that, the number of players transferring out of the program is still astonishingly high. Players leave early at the first chance they get it seems. There was the SI article about players literally wanting to lose the Marshall game a couple years ago. There was the assistant coach using athletic department funds to subsidize in extramarital affair. Honestly, why don't they just make a Netflix series about our football program?
Rant aside, it just seems like anytime there is a clear path to success in this program, something else happens. Fuente knows football, and I do feel bad for him because I truly think he knows he needs more resources to please the fanbase, hence the Baylor thing back in the winter. Should Whit give it to him and stop investing so much in other sports that Weaver didn't really bother with? That is purely subjective. Is it even worth giving it to him because it seems like something will always get in Fuente's way anyway? That is also subjective.
This might be a bit strong IMO.
What is clear is that Fuente is behind the 8 ball again. After the 2021 class, he will have recruited two bottom tier ACC classes (Duke level classes). Outside of some Broncoesque player development we are set up for some really tough times ahead. On top of that he has to completely rebuild a defense; and that isn't happening with Duke level recruits.
As good as this season, and maybe next, might be, 2022 and beyond look very bleak. The way forward is to drastically change whatever it is the staff is, or isn't, doing on the recruiting trail.
You really summed it up. I said this yesterday - this is the ceiling under Fuente. Top recruits aren't lining up to play at VT once these juniors and seniors leave. No way he can pull off this defensive overhaul recruiting like this. Very scary outlook to be honest.
I think Whit has yet to see a full meltdown from the fanbase. No one was too upset when the basketball team was winning two games a year in conference. No one has gotten that upset over football yet because we are still going to bowl games. But man, if we ever have that 3-9 or 4-8 season, it's going to be tough to watch.
Actually looking at the roster on defense, we have a D line and secondary for the long run (if we can get some good D Tackles in the '21 class). The one position we're really thin on on the future is LB. No one to replace Dax Ashby and Tisdale.
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I am most disappointed that I now realize that this fanbase is going to scream for coaching changes after every loss going forward. It is a shame how fast opinions change.
I saw some parallels to the VT v LSU game some time ago when Tyrod took over from Glennon. The whole team played like crap (including the defense) until Tyrod took over. I would guess no one wants to run through a brick wall if they believe the best QB is not playing. BB did get two wins, but the coaches have to put in the best player for the good of the team.
Do we still have the lunch pale or did JH end it?
On the bright side, I don't believe we had any injuries and I did not have to go to church today which is full of UNC fans.
We put up 500 yards and 45 points on offense and still lost handily. I just don't buy the complaining about our offense. The defense lost this game and lost it bad. UNC had and average of over ten yards per play! That's not embarrassing that's humiliating. Entire secondary was awful. Played soft. No run support. Bad angles. Out of position. It was a cluster.
But ya know, they staffed it with warm bodies so there ya have it.