He was from Alabama. I congratulated him on Auburns remarkable turnaround and naturally the conversation turned to Loeffler. Of course he talked about how inept Loeffler is and how since 'everyone is calling for Frank Beamers head' that he'll get rid of Loeffler before a couple of years pass so Frank can avoid being fired as the head coach. I quickly educated him that Frank Beamer is unlikely to be fired and that I am a wait and see on Loeffler because it looks like at least we have a coherent offensive system. He politely and doubtfully rolled his eyes.
Since reading and participating in this blog I feel my knowledge has increased 3 fold and talking to people like this makes me feel like a star wars nut talking to a casual star wars observer - VT football being Star Wars, of course.
What chances do you give of our offense being more productive next year over this one, and if you feel we improve, to what extent? Do we become okay (in my opinion we are not 'okay' week in and week out this year. I'd rate us as 'pretty bad overall'), adept, great, prolific? Obviously prolific and great are long shots.....but what do you think and why?
Comments
even with a new QB I see us as better on offense next year. we will have more talent and more experience at wide receiver. ditto at running back. Grimes will have had another year to work with the O-line. loeffler will be able to run more of his desired offense i think. as has been noted on here before, i think he realized we had the best chance of winning this year by running everything through logan
My experience living in "SEC Country" is that the majority of the fans allow their strange love affair with their entire conference to blind them. Loeffler is no longer affiliated with the SEC therefore he must be bad.
2012 Tre Mason: 5.9 yards/carry -- 21 carries/TD
2013 Tre Mason: 5.7 yards/carry -- 12 carries/TD
Obviously Tre has had a great 2013 season but the biggest differences I see are that this year he has a lot more carries (283 vs 171) and he also has a 1000 yard rusher at QB who also completes 60% of his passes. Gus Malzahn is undoubtedly an offensive genius but I don't know that saying Loeffler is inept is logical at all.
So to answer your question: I believe that when next year rolls around we have the potential to be a productive offense. In 2012 Loeffler's AU offense had a strong running game but was held back by awful QB play. 2013 VT offense had a talented if inconsistent QB that was ultimately let down by a lack of a running game. If Leal/Motley/Hodges/Ford can give solid play from the QB position (60% completion rate, 15 TD 5 INT, 400+ yards rushing) and progress is made on the O-Line we'll be fine.
In short, if we play good we'll be good. Lefty can coach.
Another year in the weight room for the young line.
Another year in the weight room for the fr fullback.
Another year teaching the fr WR to run routes and catch with their fingertips.
The offense will be better.
Sam Rogers doesn't need the weight room.
The weight room needs Sam Rogers.
I wouldn't worry.
We got all the best goatees in college ball, we got Vince Vaughn, and a lot of possibility.
Besides, when Pasadena time hits, they're gonna contend with the best team in the nation, so this quote from Mike Tyson may apply;
"Knock knock"
"Who's there?"
"Guy who finished second"
"Guy who finished second who?"
"Exactly"
I talked to a true Auburn fan here in Kentucky. He's probably on the same level of fandom as a lot of people here. "Fire Loeffler" is their "Start Leal."
My buddy said he felt super bad for Loeffler because he wasn't put in a situation to succeed under Chizik. Obviously he wasn't going to run a Loeffler style offense under Malzahn. Loeffler, in his opinion got screwed. Like a lot of us here, he wants to see what Loeffler can do before deciding he sucks.
i've had a couple of people (one a bama bandwagoner and one a clemson alum) ask me when we were getting rid of frank. when i was all 'WHY?!?' they both said because he's not winning anymore. when i told them that you gotta have a little perspective on these things, they both looked at me like i was taking crazy pills. a lot of fans are what have you done for me lately, and lately is the last game.
i for one am excited for the future, but i think patience is still warranted. whoever the qb is next year, that young man will have a tremendous amount of pressure on him. i say we feed the rock to trey early and often, and with a lot of experience coming back all over the offensive side of the ball, if our new qb can make enough good decisions, 2014 will be another step forward.
21-straight bowl seasons "isn't winning anymore?"
I was going to reply to a post above, but it would have been similar to yours.
I think the operative two words are 'patience', and 'recruiting.'
I see our O-line being much improved after another bowl and spring practice.
I see our TE/WR's upgraded and improved next year.
Many a coach have won a lot of games on the backs of QB's that simply made the right throws at the right time and didn't turn the ball over. (Look at Spurrier at Florida: Doug Johnson, Jesse Palmer, Shane Matthews, Wuerffel, Grossman-not the best athletes by any stretch on the team, but great leaders who put the ball in the right place and protected it.) I think Leal can bring that to the table.
But these QB's were always complimented by a solid running game, which is still my biggest concern.
Not an expert like others on TKP, and much love to our current players, but I don't see our starting RB here yet.
Which brings me to recruiting: giving the new Offensive staff all of the time in the world won't mean diddly if we don't get the players.
I like the current class on paper, but we gotta close the deal on some of these kids or it's back to mediocrity.
Thank you because I AGREE. I could imagine how this offense would have worked under the old offensive regime and I think it would be notably worse. That said, we still don't have a class of the Loeffler era established and in place yet. 2015 should give us a good feel, 2016 we can measure directional, and after that comes the final results of this hire.
Also, just reviewed this season compared to last and the big difference...we got HANDLED by Pitt, UNC, Clemson and da U. Cincinatti looked like the better team all game long and proved it at the end.
This year we won some ugly games but got truly handled in none of them - if you want to argue Bama handled us, there IS a case because there are THREE phases of the game.
Also, Logan Thomas spewed crap seemingly each and every game last year and in some games this year, his execution was outstanding.
Let's go win the Sun Bowl and nab our 2nd win over a top 20 team this year!
VT Football isn't in too bad of shape...
"I had 8 home games this season, went 2-10, and had no conference wins. Hoo am I?"
7 wins last year, 8 this year, if we get 9 in 2014 I'm happy.
If we have to improve one win at a time to get to 14 wins, I'll be fine with that. #VT4NATIONALCHAMPS2019
Actually by that time we will need 15 wins given the playoff, so #VT4NATIONALCHAMPS2020
Are we really giving up on the bowl game? We can double our returns annually if we beat UCLA so we should get to 15-0 right around 2016, which everyone is pointing towards for a potential MNC run anyway, kicked off at the Battle at Bristol.
Didn't say I was giving up on having 9 wins this year, just that if it took us until 2020 to win a championship, I'd be happy with that because we would have won a championship. If we win it in 2016, I'll be happy then as well.
Well I'll ONLY be happy if we win it in 2017....
I'd be happy with 6 next year. It's going to be a long year.
It won't be that bad. Bud, like Bama, reloads on D. The secondary will be lights out. 2014 should have a similar ceiling/floor to this year. In 2015 or 2016 big things are a real possibility.
Loeffler's offense, like most offenses, will only be very successful with an extremely talented QB. Loeffler's future with VT is in Andrew Ford's hands. Luckily, Ford will have an O-line, RB, and competent receivers to complement him. Will the offense score like a Malzahn offense? No, but it will be imposing and will wear down teams and and defensive coordinators.
Agree if ford starts and does whats expected the off could be set for a couple season since being so young
Yes, I completely agree. Malzahn found a great quarterback who could consistently make reads in the running and passing game. In addition to that, he's an exceptional athlete with 4.3 speed. He is a huge part of Auburn's success this year.
We desperately need to find a quarterback of that caliber to turn around our offense. Logan was good, but wildly inconsistent both mechanically and when making reads in the running and passing game. Of course, it's not all his fault, and he should've gotten a lot more help from the OLine, running backs, playcalling, etc, to cover up his weaknesses. But regardless, if you look at the top teams every season, almost all of them have a consistent playmaker at qb.
IMO, It's way too early to say what our new QB/OC will produce at VT. I think he had no choice on what he played with this year. As far as the talent that VT had on the offensive side of the ball. Some of his play calling I didn't like and that had nothing to do with players he had to use. I'll give him till the end of 2014 to know how I feel on his job as OC and play selections. IMO, Jury is still out...
Question: what exactly qualifies as a "legit Aubrun fan?"
A few weeks ago they put all of their Tennessee gear back in the closet and bought an Auburn hat on ebay.
Being about 50 years old, FROM the state of Alabama, and rocking their colors on a scarf - rather than a 25 year old Cam Newton fan from Virginia.
I live in Alabama now, and I'm pretty sure the only thing that qualifies you as a legit auburn fan is living in Alabama and flipping a coin. Heads you're Alabama, tails you're auburn.
Also, my professor made a joke about returning field goals the Monday after the iron bowl and about half the class almost got up and left. It was amusing.
Oh, I didn't see your question asked what a legit aubRUN fan is. I don't know. I've never talked to one.
Um, you do realize that I misspelled it on purpose, right?
No. Why did you misspell it?
Because "Auburn" is on the 6th grade words list and most of their "fanbase" didn't get past 5th.
This. Thank you.
A lot may hinge on Ford with Loeffler. But not everything if Fprd does well Loefflerwill be accepted if not his leash might get shorter
I think (hope) Leal can surprise some folks.
I really don't think Loeffler is going to be a good OC. I saw nothing in his first year that suggested he was going to make this offense into anything different than it was in previous years. Honestly, I saw this team as same old same old VT.
For now I have to agree with this. Stastically, our offense was worse than it was last year. I know that we may have accumulated stats in some blowout losses (UNC comes to mind), but in terms of results we were no different. There were also a number of puzzling play calls that would lead me to believe that Loeffler may not be the best in-game coach. With all that said, I'll wait another year before I really make my up my mind regarding him. If we haven't progressed, though, I'd imagine I wouldn't be the only person on here calling for him to go.
I agree, color me unimpressed with Loeffler Year 1. And now we're losing Thomas. I'm pretty discouraged about where we are right now.
9. That's how many starters we get back next year (drop it to 8 if you want to consider DJ). Plus, we get our best TE back from injury, and you already saw how much Lefty likes to use the TE, even with a true freshman. I think this year would have gone differently if Loeffler had a TE he knew he could trust all year long. The amount of youth on this offense and the influx of talent coming in next year should be reasons for optimism. It's not like we went 8-4 with a bunch of NFL-bound seniors. *cough* UNC *cough*.
I guess the question is how good are those returning starters? If they aren't good enough, more waiting for Loeffler while we suffer through another offensive season like this?
I applaud your optimism, but the concerns about Loeffler aren't unfounded.
Yeah but the boo hoo, make you wanna jump off a bridge, gloom and doom posts about how nothing has gotten better and I see no signs for optimism are just silly. Reading them is sad and depressing as hell. Not to mention based in some kind of you need prosac alternate reality. This team and this coordinator are gonna light it up. Write it down.
If they aren't good enough, then I don't see how you can pin that on Lefty. He can only do so much to prepare the guys. At a certain point, they just have to execute and win one-on-one matchups.
I'm starting to feel for Loeffler, he seems to be quite unlucky. Never any good players.
Check out what he did at Temple. He had a stud running back, and rode him to the #7 (or thereabouts) rushing offense in the country. Last year he again had two stud running backs who each averaged about 6 yards a carry, but had a freshman quarterback who is now a safety. This year, five freshmen on offense, 3 contributing seniors. That's not a great position to be in as a coach, especially when they're not a good fit for your system.
It's not like we should have gone 8-4 in the first place. I don't get why everyone is so okay with that record, we had opportunities to win all but one of those games, and we didn't. Blame it on who you want, but the team didn't get it done.
And if this offense is such an improvement from last year, why did we once again struggle to put points up against teams like UVA?
I disagree quite a bit with this. "I saw nothing in his first year..." Well, I saw quite a bit. I saw intelligent design in the passing game, a gameplan that used certain plays and formations to set up other plays, etc. He did what he needed to do to win, and a good deal of the time he was pretty successful. Look what he had to work with: Newsome's Oline (I could end the discussion here, but for funsies, I'll continue). Inexperienced (to put it lightly) or fat/hurt receivers, inexperienced running backs and a QB in need of a complete mechanical overhaul (when a player says he's learned more in 3 months than in the previous 4 years, that's a big problem). Yes, there will always be playcalls that every coordinator wishes he had back. That's football. Just seems like if a play is unsuccessful, the fanbase tries their best to pin it on Lefty. Either he went too conservative and should have opened the playbook up more, or he got too cute and should have stuck with the team's identity. For a guy with so much inexperience, a lack of overall talent and the garbage of the previous coaching staff to deal with, I think he did a pretty darn good job. This year, it was his job to extinguish the dumpster fire and at the same time find ways to win. 8 times out of 12, he did that. Now, it's his job to actually build his own offense. I say give him a year or two more before you start calling for his head and we repeat this process all over again.
Or one might point out that he inherited Logan Thomas, statistically the best QB to ever play at Virginia Tech, and he made the offense worse.
I really don't see how the offense as a whole got worse. Read French's articles. We're seeing better technique, better body position, better gameplanning (for the most part, although the bar was set pretty low there) and play design. The failures of this year's offense were mostly related to talent, which can be fixed with recruiting, and execution, which can be fixed with more than 8 months' experience in a particular system.
Yeah, I like measureables. Like YPP, where we went from 5.0 to 4.7.
And for some context, here is where we ranked, in the country, in 2013:
Points per game: #100
Yards per game: #99
Points per play: #100
Yards per play: #106
3rd Down Conv: #110
Red Zone %: #119
The ugliness is documented here
A 0.3 YPP decline on a team full of freshman in games where we were usually sitting on the football to protect a lead in the 4th quarter isn't all that bad in my book.
Fair enough, just trying to define "worse."
I definitely understand that, and I am tying to do the same thing. Numbers never lie (let's face it, this wasn't an elite offense this year by any stretch of the imagination), but I also don't think the numbers tell the whole story.
I really do want to believe. I thought we'd win 10 games this year with a senior QB and our defense. But the offense just never turned the corner. Too many formations. Too little commitment to the tailbacks. Too inconsistent up front. The WR performance against Bama. The QB performance against Duke. The OL performance against BC.
I agree that there were some schematic improvements, but nobody was beating down Loeffler's door when we picked him up from Auburn. And their success does reflect poorly on him, no matter how you justify it. Malzahn is using a former free safety from UGA as his QB.
At some point, you gotta make some chicken salad. I really like chicken salad.
Chicken salad went right over my head.
That aside, look at the end of that first paragraph. Every single position group was inconsistent. There was nothing for him to put out there and say, "THIS. This right here is our offense. We'll base our offense around THIS." The closest he got was Thomas, but between his own struggles and (more importantly, IMO) the inconsistencies around him, even that wasn't enough. Look at BC. They have a bad offense. BUT, they have a couple quality O-linemen and an absolute stud at RB who will be spending the weekend in New York. Loeffler doesn't have that luxury. And there's no way you can judge Loeffler based on that year at Auburn. Bad HC, bad QB (who is now a safety), talent that didn't remotely fit what he was trying to do, etc.
Loeffler had a stud running back (who will also spend a weekend in NY) and one of the best OLines in the country at Auburn last year. Their running offense should have been much better. Look at their rushing yards this year for example.
yeah but auburn actually has a passing threat this year...they were more one dimensional last year than we are this year. it's a lot easier for a defense to game plan against a one dimensional offense.
Indeed. I recall Mason did a breakdown of Kiehl Frazier when we hired Loeffler, and his arm was too inaccurate to be a threat. Any defense is going to sell out against the run when the QB routinely misses wide-open receivers. If they get burned 1/10 times, so what?
That was what I was replying to. Loeffler had exactly that plus more than what BC had to work with when he was at Auburn. Yet, BC was able to make it to a bowl game, have a decent season, and pull off some upsets...yet Auburn couldn't win a single conference game? It was a historically bad offense and the only time that Auburn was shut out of any conference wins in school history. Sorry for not being optimistic, but that's a bad sign and it's inexcusable as a coach to let that happen with that kind of talent on your team - talent that got them into the BCS national championship game this year and a heisman candidate on offense.
For starters, SEC last year > ACC this year. Also, Addazio is a MUCH better coach than Chizik. Throw in there that BC has something resembling a defense, and already BC's OC is in a better situation than Loeffler. Plus, BC's system doesn't depend on having a competent QB. Loeffler's does. You can't just go comparing different teams at different times and crying because someone else got different results. Apples and oranges, my friend.
The whole point that you were trying to get at in what you posted above is that Loeffler was put in an impossible position as an OC because he had nothing to base his offense around this year. Then you went on to compare us to BC, implying that if Loeffler had something to base his offense around, then the offense wouldn't have performed so poorly. What I'm saying is that Loeffler did have quality pieces in place (even the OLine and stud RB pieces that you yourself brought up as an example) and, even with those pieces in place, he did not succeed in doing that in your scenario. And yes, comparing a team that he coached as recently as last year is a valid comparison.
We all know that a great QB will fix or cover up a lot of issues. But even without a great QB, great coaches can still produce at least a mediocre offense. Especially ones that were brought in to establish the mentality of a power running team.
The way I see the situation is this: Loeffler, for the last two years at least, has not been put into a position to succeed and has then gotten a lot of flak for it.
Chizik to Loeffler at Auburn: "Here are a bunch of players recruited to play spread, but I want you to install a pro system. So make that happen."
Beamer to Loeffler at VT: "Here are a bunch of players that have been recruited incoherently for a few years, with no discernible system in mind. So make something happen."
I will withhold any criticism of Loeffler for the next 2 years. I can see that he is starting to give our offense a new identity. Recruiting and player development will tell us a lot about who he is as a coach and who we will be as a team. Basing any opinion on a single season anywhere, to me, is faulty. One data point does not necessarily reflect any sort of trend.
Yeah, I'm not advocating that we fire him after one season. I'm waiting to see if there's improvement hopefully by 2015. But I'm seeing red flags and I'm just concerned that we hired ourselves another Stinespring that we'll be stuck with for another 10 years. I do not want to see another decade of mediocre to bad offense.
I'm honestly expecting the offense to regress a little next year. Combine that with the defensive talent graduating or leaving for the NFL, I hope that we can at least make it to a bowl game.
Sorry, tard fingered. Meant for up.
Go look at how we did in 3rd/4th and short situations against Duke and BC and tell me if you really think the OLine and RB pieces were in place.
*EDIT* Throw the first goalline situation against UVA in there for good measure too. Just what I thought of off the top of my head.
Yeah, I agree that we have a lot of issues on the OLine and at RB, but I was referring to Auburn last year. As we can see from the kind of season they've been having this year, they definitely had the OLine and RB pieces in place. Sorry if my post wasn't clear on that.
I don't like chicken salad. But I agree with what you're saying.
My problem with going by those rankings is that it doesn't necessarily say anything about actual improvement or regression. In the time where offense is blowing up across the board because defense isn't there as much anymore, it's easy to figure things were worse.
Seriously, how many games did I see this year that were shootouts compared to even a few years ago? Every weekend there were at least 6 games I saw scores of in the 40s/50s range where it was BOTH teams doing it. That was ALL over the place this year.
Statistically the most productive and statistically the best are two far different things, my friend.
Besides, one player does not a complete team make. Even with how bad our offense was last year, this year's team was arguably less talented and without question less experienced.
LT has good stats for various reasons. One, his first year starting he was working with 2 of the best receivers to come through VT. Two, he started for 3 full years and was never benched by an injury, so he had a lot more games to accrue those stats. Three, VT spent a lot of time playing from behind in his 3 years, which really boosts QB stats because come-from-behind offenses are pass heavy. Four, in the last 2 of his 3 years VT has not had a reliable running game so we haven't been able to lean on our running game as much as we have with other QBs.
I'm not a LT3 hater, nor am I a Leal Truther, but LT3's stats don't make him the best QB to ever play for VT. He is a team player and one hell of a competitor, but he's not the best QB we've ever had. I really like the kid and I'm sad for him because I think the previous staff really squandered his talent. But I'm excited to move on to the next guy and get a true QB back under center and see what this offense can do. With a true QB and an experienced O-Line (they might as well have all been freshman this year given pos. changes and technique coaching changes) I think that Loeffler will be able to field a competitive offense. With BF still on staff, in a couple years this team could make a pretty good run.
Completely agree.
Better VT QBs than LT3
-Michael Vick
-Will Furrer
-Bryan Randall
-Jim Druckenmiller
-Tyrod Taylor
-Maurice Deshazo
-Grant Noel....(just kidding...)
Advanced statistics tell otherwise. Total QBR is probably the best indicator of QB quality. VT QBs since 2004 (ACC rank)
04 - B. Randall 60.8 (3rd)
05 - Ma. Vick 70.1 (3rd)
06 - S. Glennon 46.5 (7th)
07 - S. Glennon 58.6 (4th)
08 - T. Taylor 50.1 (8th)
09 - T. Taylor 73.9 (1st)
10 - T. Taylor 77.5 (1st)
11 - L. Thomas 69.2 (2nd)
12 - L. Thomas 43.4 (10th)
13 - L. Thomas 55.0 (11th)
You could argue that Loeffler did not do his job as QB coach, as Logan never regained his 2010 form. I would argue, however, that Logan was a product of his surroundings.
He did, however, gain 11.6 points, with what I would argue is about the same quality of supporting cast, if not slightly worse.
PLEASE tell me this is sarcastica! My finger is hovering over the downvote button and is getting itchy.
Of course it is
I dunno, his offenses totaled more yards and points than any other offensive coordinator in VT history.
I bet. I didn't look it up.
love the disclaimer..didn't see it at first..then when I did I chuckled.
I look at 3 plays in particular in the first half of the LOLUVA game and grin. I suspect there are some interesting things afoot.
Next year will be fun. We'll lean on our defense a lot next year but, the playbook will open some with the Fr/so having a year of learning them under their belt.
I suspect we'll start the year with Leal because he's had the playbook for a year and the other guys haven't. I expect a redshirt QB to learn the offense next year and mature and we come out swinging with that QB in 2015 along with the Juniors and seniors in the rest of the offense that grew up with the improved skill coaching and know the playbook.
I am excited for 2014 and 2015.
The glass is 3/4 full. I'm making my donations and plotting so I have the best seats possible for 2015-16.
Lane Stadium 50 yd line will be the best seats in college football 2015-16.
This man knows how to support a football team.
Well, you could say every year we lean on our defense; that's just Hokie Football!
I'd love our D to be a scoring D again. Great to hold people to few yards and low scores, but I remember when we did that AND got interceptions for TDs, and fumble recoveries for TDs. Fun days.
Ahh yes... kind of how we used to be able to block a kick.
I'm not sure when the last time we blocked a kick AND returned it for a TD.... that may be too much to ask of our special teams as of late.
One step at a time, one step at a time....
People around here have really short memories. I realize that the Marshall game was a while ago but have we really forgotten about it already?
Excluding Marshall - That was like watching Beamer Ball back in the day.
+1 for the Nelson Mandela meme!
I'M KIDDING!!!!!!
your username makes me think of a woman pregnant with twins...
I asked about the pregnancy thing a few months ago. Apparently, they're a husband and wife tandem. I bet if we look at their post history we can figure out which one posted what.
I don't forget that. That was the game when everyone on the forum was like "BEAMERBALL IS BACK!" and I was like "One game does not mark a comeback".
I'm not talking about 1 or 2 games a year. It used to be a D/ST score at least once a game. Once upon a time, almost every game they showed on TV the announcers would say something to the effect of "Over the past 10 years, the Hokies have (blocked more kicks/had more defensive/st TDs) than any other team in college football, and it's not even close."
I'd love to hear those words again.
I do believe we have the most interceptions since 2000 or something like that. They usually bring that up.
That's a pretty nice stat, though having the most interceptions when nothing really comes of them, is just a little disappointing.
I think defensive touchdowns are more created by the opposing offense rather than the defense. They have to make a mistake, in their half of the field, with most of the offense down field from the play. I don't really see a correlation from the TDs/stature of the defense. Maybe by players though - Macho and Jayron accounted for a ton of these. I could see Kendall, with his return and offensive skills, maybe being a player that can score some defensive TDs.
Defensive Touchdowns by Year:
2013: 1
2012: 0
2011: 0
2010: 2
2009: 1
2008: 3
2007: 4 (4 different players, BTW)
2006: 2
2005: 5 (5 different players)
2004: 4 (4 different players)
2003: 4
2002: 3
2001: 3
2000: 2
1999: 3
1998: 4
1997: 1
1996: 1
1995: 4
1994: 1
I looked up the defensive stats for the ACC last year. Top three defenses (FSU, VT, Clemson) combined for 1 defensive TD.
Bottom three (Duke, Wake, Miami) combined for 4.
I think we need some luck.
***2013: 2*** (Refs robbed us against the Terps!!!) That was a Tariq Touchdown!
I have an Auburn fan from Alabama that goes to my church, was even at Auburn for the Alabama game. Him and I once had a conversation about who had the worst offensive coordinator in the NCAA. I think I won the debate since we fired ours to hire theirs. Our offense will never be good with Loeffler there is no hope and I wish we had never hired such an idiot.
Seriously.
If you had more turkey legs, I might respect your complete disregard for turkey legs, but since you're new....
TRROLLLLLLLL!!!
At this point I think we can all agree that:
-there were signs of good things to come
-there were some causes for concern
-there will probably be more growing pains next year, but 2015 is when a lot of things hopefully will come together
To be honest, I don't think he's a troll. It's just that he's just very negative. If you look at his posts, he's a glass half empty type.
His post is a little too ad hominem and troll-like but I don't think it's on purpose.
Here, I'll help him out. Dude, try to be factual with your posts when it comes to criticism. Give Loeffler a chance.
And hired who instead????
Wow, some of you guys have Loeffler on a short leash. So what now, one year in with an offense around 100th!?
Fire him and put Steiny in charge? Or try a new OC search again, set the bar high and go with our second or third choice because the first guy took a dream job in the NFL? Maybe Frank makes it public this time, "win ten or we're looking for a new coach".
After everyone wanted last years coaches fired, they're quick to complain about the replacements.
agreed. goodness we were horrible in 2012. we weren't great in 2013 but logan at least looked like a competent QB for the majority of the season.