With all the talk of redoing our offense staff (or at least replacing Stiney) few people have stated any realistic (obtainable) names.
I think if we were to hire a new OC this off season, he should:
-Have no current relation to Beamer (we need a new perspective on O)
-Have success
-Be obtainable (No OC is going to make a lateral move)
I think we should go after Steve Farmer, The OC/O-Line Coach/Assistant Head Coach at Louisiana Monroe.
Not sure Weaver/Beamer would go out of house, but I think Farmer has a good offensive mind (from what I've seen this season) and should be someone we can afford. He's young, and VT is definitely an upgrade from ULM.
What say you all? What 'realistic' options would you like to consider for a new OC? Or do you want to stay in house? Or just keep Stiney?
Comments
I'm a fan of any switch, we need creativity and a more modern offensive strategy
Inbreeding is reserved for our friends in West Virginia so please out of house. But let's be honest...I'd be surprised if Stinespring were to be fired.
I'm even up for giving Shane a chance at O.C.
I Don't want to see Shane get the Job. Worst possible outcome IMO.
Any reason you say this? Quite the open-ended post...
Name his experience in offensive scheme.
.... Drawing blanks?
I think we need a big change. I fear that Shane would just be Frank #2. Also, I don't think Shane has enough experience. Even if Bud were to take over, I think he has enough of a different personality/view of the game that it would offer a good enough change.
Looking down the road, if we don't do a national search to find the replacement for Frank, then we're short-changing the program. I want us to go after guys we might not be able to land too. For example, if the Frankinator choose to retire tomorrow call Chris Petersen, Dana Holgorsen, the hot-shot coordinators like Manny Diaz, Kirby Smart. Take a shot. If Shane stacks up to a well vetted list of candidates and earns the job, then I have no problem with him taking over.
However, the job shouldn't pass down to Shane like a birthright. In my opinion, Weaver will be retired before it happens, and we need to find a strong athletic director to make the next hire.
In agree with you about trying to get a big name like Chris Peterson but I wouldn't want Dana Holgorsen as VT's head coach. We don't necessarily need someone squeaky clean (we hired Cornell Brown), but Holgorsen has a reputation on being a drunk that can't stay out of casinos. While his offenses are prolific and he wins games, I don't want to compromise the integrity of the program.
The LAST thing needed in the VT football program is more nepotism. Shane has shown to be a good position coach and on the up-and-up in recruiting, but Stinespring also had zero offensive coordinating experience, and look where we are today. It needs to be either a proven OC at another D1 school or a young up and coming guy from the lower levels.
Fridge
I know you said you don't want anyone with ties to Beamer, but Friedgen is one hell of an OC. I would love to see him calling the plays next year.
Been saying this for years
However, this is the change that would have the most shock value. They will never hire someone outside the box, and odds are won't make a change at all.
I second that. He's not a bad coach at all, got fired after winning 9 games. I'd love to have the fat guy in the booth or on the sideline
Yes, after bring fired for no
Yes, after being fired for no real reason from Maryland, he would have killed it on the offense. But who knows if Fridge would have taken the job since it is a step down back to OC from HC, even if it was with his friend Frank. Then we could get rid of Newsome and Ocain, and demote stinehole to head offensive recruiter, oline coach, and team tactician. If only....
This move
happens all the time in the NFL... Not as much in college, true, but I don't think it's as inconceivable as people believe. Name one major program that would hire him? If he's head coach again, it's a lateral move to a minor BCS team or lower. If he wants to coach at a major BCS team, then OC is the best realistic shot.
and
since we didn't pull the trigger to hire him as OC when he was fired, he's a little hungrier to get back in the game. He could make a great 5 year run at OC at Tech. I don't need a lifetime commitment from him, just enough to prove that how Stiney calls games is not acceptable.
Fridge has a great offensive mind, so turn him loose. Heck, I'd even deliver a pizza at the beginning of every quarter or for every touchdown. Just imagine THOSE commercials.
"Why would the Fridge be a good fit?"
He's close friends with Frank, he knows the game, he wants a job that isn't a HC gig, he wants a coaching job will considerably less stress, he wants a job that enable him to improve his health, he wants a job where he can still help kids and recruit, kids will come to play for him (only reason UMD EVER got recruits such as Heyward-Bey, Vernon Davis, etc), he's passionate about the game, he's an offensive mastermind, Stinespring is an excellent o-line coach so Frank wouldn't have to fire anyone, and beamer would solve all major offense problems while bringing in someone he trusts.
"Well gee, that's pretty awesome. So why haven't we offered him yet?"
Frank will not fire/demote anyone on his staff and Stinespring is too ignorant to realize what's going on, as has been the case for the last 8 years.
Talking about Sprinespring getting fired is like talking about the Sorpranos. Move on. Find a new show. (credit to forgetting sarah marshall)
I'm in the minority that thought the ending of the Sopranos was pretty good, and I'm still holding out hope for the movie.
Yeah I'm holding my breath for the 24 movie too. (sarcasm font)
honestly
I think the Fridge is the only chance we actually have at change. There is a certain comfort level there obviously with him and Frank...it could be worked discreetly under the table next time they are on Lake Oconee. The idea of not firing anyone and just bringing him in is key there.
If you increased the budget by $300-400k annually (or by whatever an OC of Fridge's caliber would make), the ROI would be more than 100%. Besides more wins, everyone would be so ecstatic donations would cover it.
Besides, Fridge would definitely be game as long as his health is good. We should start a grass roots campaign.
"Frank will not fire/demote anyone on his staff and Stinespring is too ignorant to realize what's going on, as has been the case for the last 8 years."
In order for Fridge to take an OC job, an OC job has to be open. In order for an OC job has to be open, the current OC has to either quit, get fired, or get reassigned. Since that has not happened, nor probably will happen anytime soon, it is a moot suggestion.
"If you increased the budget by $300-400k annually (or by whatever an OC of Fridge's caliber would make), the ROI would be more than 100%. Besides more wins, everyone would be so ecstatic donations would cover it."
I hate to put my CPA hat on here but the accounting for the program does not work this way, and I feel like I have to clarify this before this suggestion gets out of hand. VT Football is likely an enterprise fund within a not for profit entity (VT). In order for what you suggest to occur, the decision to find someone and pay them X would have to be made before the fiscal year budget is approved (which is before the fiscal year itself). Then in order to cover the expenses of OC salary X, donations of Y would have to be obtained either before or when the new OC is hired.
The point? IF Fridge wanted a larger salary than Stinespring (which I doubt), Steger/Weaver/Board of Directors would have to make the concious decision to find someone new and pay them salary X, which they won't do without the blessing of Frank. This means, before anything happens on the weaver/steger/BOD front, Frank would have to make the decision to EVENTUALLY fire the OC and pay the new one, which he won't do.
All this being said I'm going throw out another suggestion for our new OC: Batman.
#DarkKnight4OC
They reassigned coaches last year, it's not unprecedented. That would make room.
thanks for the clarification on how things might work logistically, but my point was that spending some additional money to bring in a new hire while staying loyal and reassigning existing staff makes business sense. It could be done if Frank saw the value, and red tape would not get in the way.
I wasn't trying to be a jerk, so I apologize if it came across that way, some people just don't understand that AD do not work in the same way as regular businesses and the CPA in me felt like I had to clarify the difference.
I agree with everything you have said but the biggest point still remains: Frank will not see the value as greater than that to demoting his staff and/or hurting their feelings so he won't do it. My guess is that Billy Hite gave him crap last year for putting him in a admin position, so he won't risk having more buddies of his think less of him.
Hite was happy
Cav was not. In fact, if I remember correctly, Cav was pretty pissed.
good points guys
I do recall that Cav was pissed.
Yeah, sorry for getting my facts mixed up there. Credit when it's due.
This
I'm actually a little surprised he's not on the staff in some capacity already. I've always thought this would be the natural place for him to end up.
Logical Moves
1. Curt Newsome and Mike O'Cain to cushy, well paying, front-office jobs.
2. Stinespring back to offensive line.
3. Fridge to offensive coordinator / QBs coach.
4. Hire more young blood.
I doubt O'Cain would take a front office job. He's still young and wants to coach. He'd probably try and get back to Clemson in some capacity.
My mother-in-law is a has been a diehard Hokie football fan since she graduated VT in 81 and she's convinced that O'Cain threw the games against Clemson last year.
Yea and stinespring is a JMU grad! Does this raise any suspicions about what happened in 2010.......?
It's a conspiracy! We'd better not schedule Murray State...
The average JMU grad is much smarter than he is.
I feel that it's going to take either Beamer stepping down or being let go before we get a new offense.
this is
correct. i'm not joking, this is correct.
yea its a very hypothetical thread
is there anyone hypothetically you'd want and you could realistically see come be the OC
that's ok
I save my unfounded, conspiratorial speculation for conference realignment/SEC expansion anyway.
I've thought Tony Franklin for a bit
I'll start off by saying he's friends with Bud Foster from playing together at Murray State but he graduated before Frank Beamer coached there. He's the current offensive coordinator for Louisiana Tech and they are currently leading the nation in offense and just beat UVA. He was previously an offensive coordinator at Middle Tennesse State, Auburn, and Troy. Only place he was fired was from Auburn but that could be attributed to the Tuberville only giving a new spread offense 4 games to work with players that weren't suited for the offense. Here's his wiki.
He's a spread coach coming from the same tree that's produced Leach and Holgorsen. He's been great with QBs in the past such as w/ Tim Couch and to a more obscure qb in Nathan Dasher recently at Middle Tennesse State. He does incorporate the running game w/ this year so far having 167 rushes to 134 pass attempts. He's a cocky guy having had coaching clinics touting "The Tony Franklin System" and the offense would definitely have a defined identity. I currently feel as if we have players that could fit a spread offense as we've dabbled in it somewhat past couple of years.
I think the Murray State, Bud Foster relationship makes it comfortable enough for the hire by Beamer but that the established resume and stable identity makes it a break from what we have.
I'll take it!
I'm really interested in how LT does against Texas A&M
Besides against TAMU i could see Louisiana Tech going undefeated this year with their schedule. If Louisiana Tech goes undefeated and gets some pub I think he def will go somewhere to try to prove the Tony Franklin system works for BCS squads.
Possibilities
Tony Franklin. Good call. Might have growing pains trying to adjust to a true spread like he runs, but it would make games more fun to watch.
Phil Montgomery from Baylor is another viable option. His offense is designed around dual-threat quarterbacks putting up lots of points. We seem to only get dual-threat guys now any way. Plus, he still works running backs into the mix, so we can maintain some of our roots.
Trooper Taylor- kind of a reach, since he's in the SEC, but an outstanding recruiter, and someone who could really help the passing game.
I think (if this were a real situation) we could also consider some successful position coaches from other successful schools. I'm sure Oregon's O-line coach would take an OC job at VT? (BTW, I have no clue who Oregon's O-line coach is, just kinda pulled the school/position out of my ass).
To me, if we went full on Big XII spread, it would reflect on the defense before long. I feel like when I watch an SEC game, that's what Frank wants.
Who are some of the assistants at Georgia, South Carolina, or even TCU? Those teams always seem to move ball just fine and the QB does run in those offenses. Meanwhile the D keeps that toughness from practicing against an O like all week.
Like I've seen mentioned on here this week, you can predict what play is coming a lot of the time, and if drunk guy in the stands can do it, then most DCs worth their salt can as well. Yes pound it, be hardnosed, just dont be so predictable!
Now if I could just pick than Chip Kelly all day long, but this is a realistic replacement thread so yeah, SEC or even pro style assistants.
Do we miss Ricky Bustle?
Somewhat true
Except TCU has gone to a more up tempo spread than Baylor. I picked them for a reason. They maintain the integrity of the run game without it being pure spread option like most of the Big 12. And they've worked a system around turning average players into great teams. Sound familiar? Also, if you want pro-style with spread looks, Texas just got Boise State's old OC. But this was supposed to be realistic, so I didn't mention him above.
Shane
Don't forget about the time that Shane spent under Spurrier at South Carolina. Spurrier always spoke highly of how quickly Shane picked up on different aspects of the game and placed Shane in charge of special teams at SC. I would have no problem giving Shane a chance since he is already in house and the current players trust him. The only way we would go outside the box to get a new OC is when Frank retires.
One more thought. How much longer does Bud hang around a program that won't elevate to the next level beacuse of the lack of offense? A lot of people say our D is horrible this year but what do you expect when opposing teams have to be averaging 5 mins per drive? To me Foster is doing a great job with the youth he has the D just needs to the offense to come along and give them a break. With the way the offense is playing do you think LT3 wants to know what names people are coming up with for them as he mentioned preseason in a tweet?
Difficult to fire
How do you let go of your "family"? I think the current coaching staff has taken VT as far as it can go. I hope I am wrong but I think it has hit a plateau. It is a nice plateau and one most every college in the country would love to be on.
Is it a foundation or a peak?
even my semi-football litertate wife was talking about how the program has plateaud. i realized that beamerco would never get us to another mnc game years ago. not without another vick/vince young/cam type athlete that can take you on a magical run at least. now i feel like the game is passing our coaches by. i hope it's the pre shane/cornell recruiting biting us in the ass and we'll be better next year and beyond but right now things aren't looking bright.
I humbly but myself forward
I haven't played or coached football but I do have NCAA 11 and I have played it quite a bit...I think I can put up 300 to 400 yards a game and blow even the top ten teams out by 40. (the key is to go with a 5 wide set and call the same play over and over again)
VERTICALS EVERY DOWN! FUCK YEAH!
Then maybe a draw play here and there out of the same formation.
Dont be giving away my secrets
SHHH
I tend to do hard downhill running from the I-Form, mix in a few quick slants and screens, then do play action from either that formation or from Shotgun-Spread.
I have verticals as one of my audibles and switch to it if I see a blitz, because you can just snap it and quick throw and then run 70 yards if your receiver is fast enough.