**You really only need to read the first two and last two paragraphs if your knowledge of VT Football over the last 12 seasons is above par. Also, I apologize for any typos. I typed all of this on my phone.
This is a very sensitive topic for almost all Hokie fans, talking about Frank Beamer's job security as the head coach of Virginia Tech Football, because he has been there for 27 years, won over 200 games, more than any other current college football head coach, and built this program up from, basically, nothing to a BCS bowl contender nearly every season, but does he have it anymore?
I understand to the fullest extent that, under no circumstances that aren't extreme (i.e. Jerry Sandusky, Woody Hayes' punch, etc.), Frank Beamer would be fired. Is anyone else starting to become extremely frustrated with him, though? Losing some of the games we have lost since 2001 is nothing but unacceptable.
Let's look back. In 2001, the Hokies rose to #5 in the polls after a 6-0 start, and it looked as if the loss of Michael Vick wasn't as serious as some people made it out to be. Well, after a perfect first six games, the Hokies dropped one at home against unranked Syracuse 22-14. Now, one wonders how in the world that happens, even though a great team has a fluke game every once in awhile. Because of that the Hokies only dropped seven spots to #12, and were faced with Pittsburgh, another unranked team the next week, and got whooped 38-7. After that the Hokies won the remainder of the regular season games, aside from when they played #1 Miami and lost by two points (thanks, Earnest Wilford), and then lost in the Gator Bowl to Florida State.
Next season, 2002, the Hokies entered the season #16 in the country, and looked very impressive the first half of the season again, as they started 8-0 and beat three top 20 teams in a row, and rose to #3 in the polls. Then, the unthinkable happened. The Hokies dropped three straight to unranked teams, Pittsburgh at home by seven, Syracuse on the road by eight in triple overtime, and West Virginia at home by three, and closed out the season by beating Air Force 20-13 in the San Francisco Bowl.
Then, 2003 happened, a season that included Virginia Tech's lone win in school history over a top five opponent but also included five losses, four being to unranked teams, including a 28-7 loss to West Virginia on the road when Tech was the ranked #3 team in the nation.
The next season, 2004, is the last season I can remember a Virginia Tech football team not lose any games they weren't supposed to (NC State was early in the season, and Tech still had a lot of inexperience).
2005 was different, though. A terrific team plagued by discipline problems and, just like we're used to, inexcusable losses. The Hokies started 8-0 and rose up to #3 in the polls. On November 5th the #3 Hokies faced the #5 Miami Hurricanes at home in front of College Gameday and a home crowd with a chance to convince voters and the computers to move them into the top 2, putting them in the driver's seat for a Rose Bowl bid (the national championship that season). The Hokies turned the ball over 6 times and lost 27-7. The Hokies bounced back well, though, as they closed the regular season with impressive wins over Virginia and North Carolina, and were favorites in the first ever ACC Championship game against unranked Florida State, in which they were ranked #5 in. The Hokies fell behind 27-3 in the third quarter, and went on to lose 27-22. Nobody saw that coming.
Next up, 2006. The Hokies started 4-0 and rose to #11 in the polls, but went on to lose two straight, one at home against #24 Georgia Tech 38-27 and one on the road against unranked Boston College 22-3. The Hokies turned their season around after that loss, though, and won their final six regular season games, including a 24-7 victory over #10 Clemson at home. Then, the infamous Chick-Fil-A Bowl, where the Hokies jumped out to a 21-3 halftime lead, but behind three fourth quarter interceptions by Sean Glennon lost 31-24.
After 2006 came 2007, one of the most emotional seasons in Virginia Tech Football history, as it occurred after the April 16 massacre. The Hokies started off the season with a win over ECU, then traveled to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, for a top ten matchup against #2 LSU. The #9 Hokies got annihilated by a final score of 48-7. Yes, a 41 point loss for a top ten team. The Hokies recovered from that devastating loss and won five straight before having their hearts broken by #2 Boston College 14-10, a game in which the Hokies led 10-0 in the final five minutes. How does that happen? The Hokies got revenge on the Eagles, though, and beat them in the ACCCG 30-16 to receive an Orange Bowl bid against the Kansas Jayhawks (funny, right?). The Hokies were favored coming into that game, but fell behind 17-0, and went on to lose 24-21.
2008 happened next. The Hokies opened up the season ranked #17 and played unranked East Carolina. The Hokies lost 27-22. Again, how? The Hokies proceeded to have a very up-and-down season that included wins over Nebraska (on the road, I must add), Georgia Tech, and #23 Maryland and losses to Boston College and Miami. The season had a very great ending, though, as the Hokies beat #18 Boston College in the ACCCG again and beat #12 Cincinnati 20-7 in the Orange Bowl.
The Hokies had high hopes for 2009 after their 2008 Orange Bowl victory. After a tough loss to #5 Alabama in the season opener the Hokies ripped off five straight wins and rose up to #4 in the polls, but went on to lose on the road to #19 Georgia Tech 28-23, a loss that should not have happened. The Hokies got a bye week after that loss and played unranked North Carolina 12 days later. UNC won 24-21, something that should have never happened. The Hokies bounced back, though, and won their final five games, but those two losses cost them a third straight ACCCG bid.
And, who can forget 2010? The Hokies opened up the season against #3 Boise State, and lost a hard fought battle 33-30. 5 days later the Hokies lost to James Madison. Yes, James Madison. FCS James Madison 21-16. The Hokies went on to win 11 straight games, though, and faced off against Stanford in the Orange Bowl. The Hokies got killed 40-12. No excuse for that, in my opinion.
Coaching changes came after 2010. 2011 featured a new playcaller, Mike O'cain. The Hokies won their first four games and were faced with #13 Clemson at home. The #11 Hokies got killed 23-3. Absolutely unacceptable. The Hokies won their final seven regular season games, and were #5 in the country for the ACCCG against Clemson. The Hokies lost again, this time by 28, 38-10. Once again, we ask how. The Hokies still got a BCS bowl bid, and went on to play Michigan in the Sugar Bowl, a game in which the Hokies, statistically, dominated, but still lost 23-20 in overtime, due to poor coaching decisions, in my opinion.
Now, we all know how 2012, last season, went. No need to go into detail about that one, other than we went 7-6 and had to beat Virginia by a field goal just to make a bowl game.
And here we are now... This team opened up with a loss to Alabama in which the Hokies gave up two special teams touchdowns (special teams are coached by Frank Beamer) and one interception return for a touchdown. The Hokies rebounded and won 6 straight games, but lost two inexcusable games to unranked Duke at home and unranked Boston College on the road. The Hokies rebounded and beat #11 Miami on the road 42-24, but then today happened. The Hokies lost to unranked Maryland (who had 17 players on their injury report) on Senior Day 27-24 in overtime.
Now, are all of these losses just bad luck for Virginia Tech? Or, is there some substance to it. There is one constant for all of these losses, and that's Frank Beamer being the head coach. Frank Beamer has done so many great things for Virginia Tech Football, but he has also made them look like a laughing stock many other times. Frankly, I'm sick of it. How many top five wins does Beamer have? What's his BCS bowl game record? How many time has Tech been ranked and lost to an unranked team? That's right. A lot.
Beamer simply cannot be a good head coach every week, unlike Nick Saban, Jimbo Fisher, etc., and I'm sick and tired of watching this team squander talent week in and week out because of poor leadership, coaching, and preparation. Does anyone else agree?
Comments
I disagree. Beamer's tragic flaw is his inability to see when one of his assistant coaches isn't working out right and getting rid of them too late (see every time he gets rid of an assistant). I think we're on the right track for that now. So there's my first point.
My second point is I hate the Nick Sabans of the world. If that's what it takes to win I would rather be Cinderella, crashing the party, but leaving before the party is done. I would rather be the Giant Killer who sometimes upsets big teams but is never quite good enough. Frank Beamer is such a great guy, and I want someone like him at the helm, even if it isn't him when it comes time to retire.
Okay, so the assistants are why we lost today?
There are a lot of reasons we lost today. I would say that really nothing went right for us. I think an argument can be made though that this team is a lot less dependent on it's defense with a less miss match offense. The miss matched offense is a result of the recruiting done by the old assistants.
The cumulative effect of Beamer's loyalty to his assistants is why we have been struggling for the last few years. He treated them as friends instead of employees. Developing friendships is fine, and even productive, because you have a level of trust (see: Bud Foster and the D team), but it can blind you to shortcomings. The fact that our assistants, for years, were unable to recruit coherently and develop reasonable game plans is why our success has started to tail off. With a new set of assistants and reinvigorated, cohesive recruiting, we can right the ship. For what it's worth, we're complaining about winning seasons and bowl games here, so righting that ship shouldn't take much to do. It's not like we're staring at 2 wins (*coughcough*other Virginia school*coughcough*) and we need to completely overhaul everything.
Why does there always need to be a reason you lose? UMD made more plays. Tip your hat.
You make it sound like UMD made more plays, random event, normal variation in a statistical sense. That is not quite right. Sure they made more plays .. now why and how to fix just to take it at fait accompli ensures mediocrity.
I didn't see coach Beamer or the assistants suit up today. Did Frank miss those tackles in overtime? Did he miss the FG in the first half? Did Frank miss those blocks up front that lead to 7 sacks? What from a management standpoint did Frank make any mistakes? Sure, Beamerball gave up a punt return score but was it poor special teams coaching? Will forcing Beamer to retire win a title next year without better players on offense? I doubt it...maybe we should hire the cop at LOLUVA to win the title..
If Frank hadn't allowed Cody Journell so many opportunities to screw this team over than they may have had the kicking game figured out at this point and not have missed that chip shot field goal....
That said, did we lose this game on the field goal? No, we lost this game in my opinion because this group of players doesn't seem to have the mental fortitude to play the same game week in and week out. Sure, they get up for the good teams but they also come out and play the "less talented" teams as if they are going to be cakewalks. This is several seasons in a row now (See Pittsburgh last year) that we have had this problem. Coaches may take a small part of the blame for this but I put this mainly on the players because a coach can only say "don't overlook these guys" so many times.
Its really telling when on Senior Day you come out and play flat that its a player problem. Frank has his faults but I for one am looking forward to what he can do when Ford and the Funky Bunch come in on offense to complement Bud's Lunchpail.....
Basically I would agree, except Beamer's most tragic flaw is to not see himself and his own tendencies clearly.
What tendencies? Beamer isn't calling the plays, or the defense. So what exactly are his tendencies?
(not calling for anyone's head or changes even)
Its a tendency of a culture of mediocrity. I am guilty of it.. for instance: like the good/great plays cancel out the bad/horrible plays. Tech's highlight real from today is WAY better than UMD's (same goes for BC and Duke games)
The status quo should be knowing what you are getting with your team as fans. I believe the way tech plays (down/up) to the level of their opponent is indicative of an under-disciplined team that doesn't play 'their own' game.
That is the tendency of the program and if its not a recipe for disaster its at least a recipe for mediocrity.
I could be OK with that but now i dunno ,,, (ya see - mediocrity)
And I dislike Saban as well. But he does know how to coach a football team to win every week.
Frank's had a great run.
However, the tide has been going out for some time.
Tech has never recovered from the loss to Michigan in the bowl game. Had Frank stayed in the hotel, tech would have won the ball game. More important, would a top recruit watch that game and commit to Tech?
Against Michigan, first half, don't kick the field goal, don't make the yardage and lose in overtime.
Against Auburn(bowl game), first half, don't kick a field goal lose a 3 point game.
Against FSU National Championship, first half, don't kick a field goal and get points early on the board to set the tone.
While it seems everyone in the country is running uptempo, high scoring offenses, Tech's offensive strategy.... is unknown and not consistent.
I love Frank, and it's time..........to say goodbye.
Sigh. Did you even read the rest of the thread?
You don't just dump the winningest active coach in college football because of an average of 2 or 3 losses a year.
Joe, is this a new troll?
No.
Just read 4 paragraphs...
independent comment:
these players have talent (on both sides of the ball)
like it or not coaching lost this game today.
Something must be done to keep attracting top rated talent (and fans) (which is already here)
if the program hopes to continue to be mentioned at the national level.
7-9 wins isnt panic button area. but, although we played better-
today was worse than the Duke loss. (hard to imagine, huh?)
GO HOKIES BEAT UVA!
Fat finger someone help me out please
Covered ya.
I cant put this game on the coaching staff....there are only so many times that coaches can say "don't overlook these guys"...
This game, especially since it was Senior Day, said to me that these players lack the mental fortitude to come out and play the same game week in and week out. The play calling on the offensive side of the ball was some of the best I have seen this year and the players failed to execute. How many times did Logan overshoot an open receiver? It just takes one of those to break right and we are winning this game.
The only major part of the game I might fault coaches for would actually be Bud's not making the first half adjustment to spy the quarterback but the second half adjustments were made and were solid until the overtime....OT again was again in my opinion a mental fortitude issue on the players part. Maryland wanted it more.
The only other part of the game that I might put specifically on coaches would be Frank's being too lenient with Cody Journell over the years. If we had parted ways after his second strike, we likely would have had the kicking game figured out by now which might "might" have changed the one missed kick.
I'm perfectly content with 10+ wins and a respectable, even-keeled, and clean program run by a great guy. Yes last year and possibly this year won't live up to that, but I think they're getting back on the right path towards that.
Face it, though. We've been on the edge for the last 5 seasons, and we're about to fall over.
No, I think appropriate changes have been made and we're going to rebound.
agreed, change and rebuilding doesn't happen overnight.
patience, young grasshopper.
Your comment directly contradicts the previous comment with no explanation of why you feel that way. I don't think we're about to fall over, I think we're about to see a resurgence.
So Logan slam topics now replaced with fire Beamer topics. Fucking awesome.
Welcome to the realm of the entitled fan.
To be fair, he gave a civil, well explained opinion.
I will say, I am also impressed at his ability to type all of that from his phone. Dude must have an encyclopedic memory to do all that, too. I would have spent hours researching that, and I was AT most of these games...
that would hard to read from a phone let alone type.
turkey leg for phone typing!!!!!
He did, however this forum has gotten to the point of constantly pointing fingers and not tempering expectations. Lose one game, take Logan out of game. Lose another, fire Beamer. C'mon now.
One thing that always made me be proud I was a hokie was that we weren't like other fan bases. Maybe I'm old school because I remember pre Beamer, but we didn't put a coach on the hot seat for having a bum year. As sad as last year was, it was still a winning year. This year is a winning year, and a rebuilding one to boot. One where an offensive coordinator has to use kids that aren't set for his system.
Let's think of it this way. UVA hasn't fired London yet. He has had horrendous years lately. As a fan base aren't we better than them to the point that our coach with winning records deserves to right the ship? Aren't we better than Wahoos?
Why is it wrong to blame the leadership for consistently exhibiting an inability to get this team to perform? When I was in the Marines I learned a saying that I think is incredibly true. "The speed of the Captain is the speed of the crew". And in our case the Captain personally coached the most underperforming unit on the team, maybe a correlation exists?
I agree with you CoastalHokie.
See - I guess this is where we differ. I think Frank Beamer HAS consistently gotten his team to perform. Hell, I'd go so far to say that he's gotten us to over-perform for decades. A down year last year, followed by a rebuilding year during which we are getting players necessary to fit the new schemes (which both were still bowl seasons, I might add) are really unavoidable every now and then in college football. The fact that Beamer strung all of those 10-win seasons together WITHOUT having 1 down year like this is stunning, frankly. Especially when you consider that we don't have the recruiting draw/prestige of some of these other, more established powers.
We had a down year last year. It happens. Lets give the fixes (which we ALL clammored for) some time to settle in before we try to burn the house down.
I've never said that the new coaches should be on the hot seat and I'm referring to games we've lost from the previous year even during those 10 win seasons. We lost to teams we had no business losing to. That is unacceptable it hasn'tstayed just last year its happened for all of those years dating back above in this discussion. All I'm getting at is i Donny want to hear about Stiney or O'Cain stored us from winking when Frank is the head of this team he approves and disapproves if what goes on so he deserves some amount of blame with the rest of those previous coaches in those previous years. I enjoyed and still want to see him win one and no I'm not calling for his job I'm saying the fanbase needs to stop saying its not his fault. When to a certain degree it is. Its his job to prepare his team and make sure they're prepared to play as well as his assistants. Please stop blaming our recruiting on our losses surely we lost to Trans that we were better recruiting than I don't think we will out recruit a Bama or LSU, but we lost to Duke and BC and we have had a better class than those two tabs and plenty more from the previous years of teams that we lost to that shouldn't have beaten us. So to our standard were not recruiting like we want but its beurre than others. Be thankful for what we do have because others have beaten us with less.
there's no question that Beamer is ultimately responsible when things go wrong...but when we say "it" is his fault, what exactly are we talking about?
ALL teams and ALL coaches will lose to teams they should beat. Stanford lost to Utah. BYU lost to UVA. FSU lost to NC State last year. Clemson lost to GT last year. LSU lost a couple of these this year. USC lost to Stanford when USC was #1. I could go on and on.
Does that mean that all these top-tier coaches should be fired?
Beamer is not perfect, but I can guarantee our next coach won't be perfect either.
Which brings us to the question...why do we consider ourselves a team that "should win" these games? Because we're a better program and are fielding better teams than those schools, and the reason we're a better program and fielding better teams than those schools is...
Frank Beamer.
He's the reason we have these expectations. Yes, I agree not every game is perfect and I can guarantee you we haven't been upset for the last time. Any coach will make mistakes and drop these games from time to time...when taking that into consideration, we have a pretty damn good coach at the helm. He wins (A LOT), he built the program out of nothing, he works his ass off, and he brings success without cheating. What more can we possibly ask.
He'll rebuild this program and it'll be better than ever (well, maybe not better than 99) with SL as OC.
In Frank we trust.
Okay I understand what your saying. I'm going to day this and bow out there's too many people commenting on this. But the way i honestly see it. Yes, i expect for us to best JMU and yes i expect for us to beat Those other teams as well that we've lost to. You speak of it as if this only happened once like done of those other Trans this had happened for the past what 6 years. Where we gabber lost to trend that should not have beaten us point blank period. And in my posts I'm not asking for anything from Beamer I'm asking for our fans to stop placing blame on our assistants as if its only there fault. All I'm trying to say is there's blame to be shared for our entire coaching staff from years past as well as this year. Now, before you or anyone else takes my words potty of context. I'm not ready for our new coaches to be changed I personally think they're on the road to success. But I hate to lose just as much as Beamer and the rest of you on this blog. I said this before time and time again and I will not apologize for it. I'm a Hokie fab but I'm not a delusional Hokie fan, I believe the longer Beamer says he's tarnishing his legacy something he's built from scratch. I said on one if these posts and i won't repeat it all just scroll down and read it. I hope he can win a championship and see him go out on top like he deserves but people can go a lifetime without winning there's so many people who don't win championships someone has to win and someone has to lose.
Now it might just be me but when we step on the field we don't play second fiddle to anyone so when we play yes i expect for us to win, it doesn't mean that we will win every game i get that but upsets happen and they seem to happen far to often to us serena life a lack of focus or whatever it may be so keep in mind this goes back seasons so don't compare it to just this season.
We can agree to disagree no hard feelings what so ever but that's how i feel. I went Bette what you post or anyone else. Its just my opinion and I stand by it.
I think when you are looking at a multi-decade presence there is a always a critical point where things start to turn. Beamer cannot stay in top of his game forever - it is physically impossible. I agree that he has done great things at VT and we owe the success of our program to him. That being said if you fail to notice a decline until it becomes a trend then it is exponentially harder to correct. Let's use Florida State as the model. Until this season they have been a shell since what, the early 2000's? Mack Brown in Texas is another example. This is young man's game. The oldest currently successful coach is who Saban, and he's 62. That's 5 years younger than Frank. And Saban looks much younger. Besides, we have an opening at AD.
First of all, who cares what coaches look like?
Second, Beamer has repeatedly said he does not want to be AD.
Third, that "decline" was last year, and it's already improving. Where exactly is the trend there?
Look at what happened when Michigan got rid of Lloyd Carr, when Tennessee got rid of Phil Fulmer, when Nebraska got rid of Frank Solich, and I am sure there are other examples. None of those teams have recovered. Beamer has his flaws (probably b/c he is human). You are right that Beamer has been a constant during all the losses; however, he has also been the constant during all the wins. It is all part of the package. Hopefully he can turn it around with these new coaches and the incoming recruits. Regardless of whether or not he does, he is going to retire in a few years anyway. There is only a decent chance that whoever comes in as the next head coach, whether it be Bud Foster or someone from the outside, will be any better.
Excellent.
My only thing about him being part of the wins is that these wins don't happen against good teams as often as I believe they should for a program with the amount of success we've had. I do think that Beamer lacks that 'coaches instinct' that is necessary to be an EXCEPTIONAL coach. He's consistent, but with the lack of success he's had against good-great teams that doesn't put him at the top in my book.
What about when Bobby Bowden retired and Jimbo Fisher became head coach? I do believe that Bud Foster is more than qualified to be the head coach after Frank Beamer's career is said and done.
I hope you are right about Bud. There are people in life that are experts at being second-in-charge, but when they become head leaders they aren't comfortable and fail. I hope Bud is a great head coach, but we won't know until it happens. I just hope he doesn't perform as poorly as Will Muschamp.
Bud will always be Def oriented. We should hire Chip Kelly for OC and they can co-head coach....
yeah I likes that idea!
But Kelly benched a hokie legend...
really? I thought he was injured...
little bit of both... Philly media loads alot of pressure on the HC
and they would have Chip's head if he put Vick back in at this point.
Give Nick 2 weeks to get hurt. MV will have his curtain call as an Eagle.
The point is, there will almost always be a period of adjustment when you change the guard. Jimbo had to take his lumps before Jameis Winston was bestowed upon him this season.
Frank Beamer's been around, though. No excuse for losing to 3 unranked teams in a season in your 27th season of coaching when you have top 25 talent.
You seriously think this team has top 25 talent?
we don't have enough of it
Nor is that talent evenly spread throughout the team. Right now, it seems to be more concentrated on the defensive side of the ball. The difference between this year and 2011, is there were talented players that could consistently make plays on both sides and the sum of their efforts offset the shortcomings that there were.
Easily! They competed against Alabama, murdered Miami on the road, and have one of the best defenses in the country.
Miami's best win is over a Florida team with a losing record... I hate (and somewhat love) to say it, but once again Miami was ridiculously overrated. You're right about Alabama, but I also have to say that Alabama has played significantly better since the opener.
This is a good team. Not a great team.
Well there ya go. Generally, the top 25 is where good teams belong, great teams belong in the top 10 and elite teams belong in the top 5. I think this team has shown enough to let us know they're capable of being a top-25 team, they're just too young and inconsistent in key spots to prove it every single week.
Yeah, not only is Miami overrated (though they won't be ranked come tomorrow), but they had some unlucky bounces. Game would have been completely different if they recovered the fumbles instead of us. Just look at today to see how that works out. First replay should have been overturned and we should have been up 7-0. Their 3rd touchdown could have gone either way and was upheld.
can you show me the top 25 recruiting classes that we've pulled in over the last decade? I would be interested to see those players. Which ones are still here?
I think our running game would be a ton better this year if we still had Michael Holmes...btw
I'm just reading this post and it has a good point and so do you as well, but has Boise State had a top 25 class? I think the answer is no to that question. I think so many people make so much to do about talent and recruit rankings, when in reality its really about coaching up the players we have. So I'm not buying the we don't have talent to win consistently speech. I think we can accept that the coastal division has caught up with us were no longer winning push over games like Duke and BC. Now since the argument for talent is being used so much neither one of those teams recruit better than us so how did we lose to them? That's why i don't buy into the .''we don't have enough talent on offense or defense for that matter to win''. So i will say at the end of the day tip your hat to Maryland and others for beating us yesterday
They might have pulled the same talent ratings (as in same number of stars) but they have a much more coherent group. They recruited like they had a plan.
This we did not do. Hence why we have so many players playing positions we didn't originally bring them in to play.
When will we accept the fact that its not the talent you bring in its how you coach up those players... So I see what your saying, but what is it saying about the talented players that we brought in why have they underachieved? We've brought in 4 stars that never panned out some for good reasons such as injuries and not fitting our system like you said, but I can't buy into that its been bringing the wrong players in. We had a system in place that we were recruiting for and I believe that we weren't coaching our players up to there potential not all of them but on those that never panned out. Isn't it the coaches job to make those players work in our system? I mean they did make it a effort to bring then in?
Thus is a good debate nothing personal at all. So don't take it that way please I love a good debate.
Very serious question: you say that there was a system in place, but can you define what it was? How does one recruit for, "Tyrod draws it up in the dirt and as long as there are enough fast guys out there, we make something happen?" Tech's offense for years was a complete crapshoot, and we had just enough raw athleticism to make it work, independent of lacking coaching. Then, as soon as there are a few holes on the offensive side, it turns on us. When was the last time we sincerely recruited OL players the way we are now?
GuitarMan,
I don't know what there recruiting preference was or what system they were trying to recruit for, but if your giving Beamer the benefit of a doubt then I would assume that Beamer had a plan to recruit players for whatever system they had. And to be honest its not that we weren't recruiting you can't make a kid go to a school against there will, let's be honest here we never had a good OL to NFL tradition and that's a whole nother story for another day. Yes, we recruited but how many other kids underachieved that was high ranked? Better yet, how would Tyrod or any other highly rated recruit fared at UF or any other school if he or anyone else went there? Like I said its not or has never been about the talent its how you coach them up. That's why I said look at Boise State. I don't want to hear about they had team chemistry or whatever if that's the case is that what were missing? Because surely I can tell those kids weren't 4 and 5 stars so tell me how did they beat UGA or Oklahoma with a bunch of nobodies that I've never heard of? And yes I understood Tyrod made a lot of things happen out of nothing and yes I'm not delusional I understand that highly recruited players are highly recruited for a reason. They do have some level of talent, but please stop with we don't have enough talent. Heck we made it to the Sugar bowl against FSU's highly touted roster and push them to the brink in what we'll call a heck of a game in a losing effort by Michael Vick. And I can assure you that if Mike Farrell or 247sports was around those kids that were on our team that year surely wouldn't have been no 4 and 5 stars. So to answer your question....Seriously that's how I feel.
I would like to answer these questions in order of how they were asked.
I'm not sure what this question means. I'll try to answer the question that I am interpreting it as, which is "How many highly ranked recruits underacheived?" I would answer several. Just like several low ranked recruits over achieved. Rankings are a crap shoot. Ignore them.
Frankly, better than they did here, because UF would have recruited him with a plan for how to use him. There would have been a cohesive plan involving run protection from the line to make him more effective as a runner and better pass protection so that he could drop bombs when needed.
We used him as an everything proof shield to make our offense work. Breakdown in protection? Tyrod runs it. Breakdown in protection and Danny Coale is open? Tyrod throws it. There's protection? That's a surprise. Defense expects Tyrod? Give them Darren Evans/David Wilson/Ryan Williams.
We want Logan to be our Tyrod but he's not as fast.
Yes.
Team chemistry.
This all comes down to team chemistry. The old regime didn't recruit with a plan for how to use players.
And don't use Vick and Co. as an example of how the old regime did have it together. That wasn't the old regime. That was the regime before the old regime. The Stinespring Era began in '02. O'Cain came in '06, far removed from the Vick era.
I like to think that Team Chemistry is something important that's brought down from the coaches this isn't NBA or NFL. It starts from the top not at the bottom. So why does everyone place blame on the other coaches and players for the losses? Please explain to me. Stop with blaming Stinespring and O'Cain this is silly. This team wasn't called Stinespring and O'Cain it was called Virginia Tech and the Head coach is Frank. Stop with blaming just them. It's time to accept responsibility for not getting this team to play no matter what. Yes, that's a coaching error.
Nic Saban and I hate to use him for examples, but he's the best at what he does. He gets his team up to play no matter what whether its for a cupcake team or its for top ranked team. He holds his coaches accountable so what is wrong with this being about coaching?
And as for Tyrod no one ever said he wasn't good for us or downplayed what he meant to us. I said how would he and other have been if they went to other teams. If Tyrod had a line like Andrew Luck could he have been successful? We will never know! That's one of the great things about College football. The argument that we want Logan to be like Tyrod is absurd to me how many years has Tyrod been gone? The first year that Logan was our starter we changed up the entire offense for him. So how can you say that we didn't have a plan?
And please I remember all of Tyrod's highlights I've seen them and watched every game that he's played in. So I really don't need a recap on what he's done for this team. And I mentioned in my post that recruit rankings were overrated. I was comparing that to FSU's team that we played against in the Sugar bowl when Vick was here. I said if Rivals or 247sports was around I can tell you that those kids weren't highly recruited. So which brings back to my point why did Boise beat us when we had waaaay more highly recruited players than them? Why did JMU beat us? Don't we recruit better than them? The talent excuse is getting old. We don't recruit as well as Bama or a Michigan does, but we recruit better than BC, Duke and Maryland and other teams that we shouldn't have lost to in the past.
I hate to say it guys that's a overall coaching error. From top to bottom. Let's face it orders don't come from bottom to the top. They come from top down. So to blame everything on Stinespring or O'Cain is literally joke. They aren't the head coach if they weren't coaching up to there standard then who's to blame for not making changes earlier???
That was my very first take on this discussion. It still is. Frank is to blame that we had those bad coaches for as long as we did. I'll be the first to say it. But Frank went and got new coaches. We have new coaches now. Give them a chance to put a team together. When they do that, we should start seeing teams that have their act together.
I'm saying Boise state beat us because they had better game planning. I'm saying JMU beat us because it was a short weak, and they had better game planning. We don't recruit better than them. We didn't recruit with a gameplan. We're seeing a different philosophy this year in recruiting. There's a plan. I'm not saying that we're not one of the most talented teams on the field. I'm saying our talent doesn't make sense. We have all of these talented players for a great passing game but no offensive line.
And again, I do blame Beamer for keeping Stinespring and O'Cain around for too long. I won't argue that. But I don't think that means we get rid of Beamer right after he went and tried to fix that mistake.
BINGO!
You do realize that I'm not saying Beamer needs to go. I'm saying the blame needs to be on the head coach for that. For most of your argument i agree, but what i don't agree with is no one accepting that its Beamer's team not O'Cain not Stiney. So its his fault for not having them prepared to play in those games no matter how long or short the week was. And if I understand you correct are you telling me JMU recruits better than us? No sir, that's not true no matter how you slice it. Because we had the most talented offensive team out there that year and we still lost. I have never said i had a problem with the new staff, they're still in the process of moving forward with this team. My complaints are from or losses this year and from the previous seasons that was mentioned above for this discussion. And there is no way in the world that BC or Duke has better players than us i will not believe that. In my opinion that is a coaching problem, if a player doesn't fit in your system you find a place where they can or don't put them in the game.
Bottom line what I'm getting at is I understand stuff runs down hill. But of Beamer is the overseer than he deserves to accept responsibility for the coaches that are under him.
I have never once said this, and in fact argue against people that do say it. I think there are two separate issues that people are pushing here, but neither can be completely blamed for our current problems (which are also not nearly as dire as people tend to believe):
1. Lack of recruiting coherency for several years
2. Coaching issues
I think problem (1) is far larger than problem (2), and I still blame problem (2) more squarely on the guys that were just fired. I refuse to pass judgment on Grimes, Moorehead, and Loeffler before they've had a couple of years to implement changes. We have plenty of talent on the field right now, but we need to give them time to mold that talent and develop other new guys into what they want us to be. We're in a rut because the previous coaches were not good enough and the players they brought in did not fit into a true scheme, they're just good football players. That's simply not good enough to get the job done at this level; you have to have a plan. I remain convinced that they did not have a good enough plan, but lots of love to our guys on the field right now who are busting their butts to try to win in a system that is brand new to them.
VTGuitarMan,
I must say you've got a point. And you have to understand when I post I'm posting to other as well not just you. So its not a personal post. Like I've said in all of my post I love a good debate. I think others on here take my posts serious and personal and its not intended to do that.
Now, I understand what your saying, but please understand what I'm trying to say. The lack of recruiting coherency that you speak of is true. I'm not downplaying that. But what I'm getting at is the teams that we've lost to are you saying that they had better talent than us? Does Duke, BC and Maryland have better talent then us? I don't think so. We may not have had as much talent as we've had over the previous years, but we've surely out recruited Duke right? How about when we played Boise? We had a ton of talent correct? Tyrod, Boykins, Coale, Williams, Evans, Wilson, and plenty of more talented players. Why did we lose to Boise which didn't have better players than us or recruited players than us. I don't like to use recruiting sites because I feel like it doesn't mean much, but talent is talent no matter how you look at it. It's how the coaches coach those players up at this level and polish them and put them in a place to perform and succeed is what makes them prepared to play.
The following game that we lost to JMU. Do we recruit better than a D2 football team? I think yes, we do, but we lost even with such a talented team with Tyrod which is one of my favorite players of all time for Tech playing with many others. That's not a coincidence, in my opinion others in fanbase will blame Weaver for the schedule which is silly. Because that's "darn if you and darn if you don't", if we won this wouldn't be a problem.
So to sum up everything because yes I know I went everywhere and back lol. But it basically seems like the teams that we've lost to were not as good as us so why did we lose with talented teams from the past against teams like JMU and Duke this year and others. I just think that coaching has to come in on some of this to a certain extent and it starts from the top not the bottom with assistants. If you were a HC would you have coaches getting paid to do something that they're not good at? I mean it makes the HC look bad. And I'm not blaming it all on Frank, but what I'm saying is its not all on everyone else and he escapes the blame for somethings not all. As for the new staff I think they have promise who could call for their heads when its only been 1 season here. I would like to think next year we'll be better.
I'm a scientist; I live for a good debate ;) I appreciate the depth of your posts, so I enjoy posting back.
I think it's hard to look back on the 2010 team and try to compare what's happening there to what's happening here. Boise did have a ton of talent on that team. As much as I hated them and didn't believe that they were always worthy of their ranking, those guys could play. It's also not like we got manhandled in that one; it was fairly evenly matched, and if we had converted one more 3rd down there, we won, so I view it as rather even in terms of the combined effects of talent and coaching.
The JMU debacle has a lot of underlying problems, I think. Emotions were likely to blame, as was fatigue from having played just 5 days before in a very physical matchup. I put some blame on both scheduling and coaching. But that's not what's happening here, this year.
We are re-forming who we are as a team, principally on offense (because our D is phenomenal) with a hodge-podge line and various skill players that have different strengths and varying levels of experience. We have brand new coaches trying to overhaul everything, from game plan all the way down to fundamental mechanics of footwork, catching the ball, throwing it, etc. We knew this would be an up-and-down year. It had to be. Next year will probably be somewhat frustrating, too. I'm with you in that we should give everything a couple years to pan out. See how the new coaches recruit and develop those players. I'm looking to 2016 as my year to judge whether or not these guys are going to build us up to be as successful as we, the fans, want them to be.
You seem to equate "unranked team" with "total crap." That's misguided. After watching Duke dismantle Miami today, I began to wonder if they've been severely underappreciated in the polls. Top-25 talent only forms a top-25 team when all elements of coaching are working well and when the players have been recruited to complement one another. Our offensive assistants were insufficient for years, so changes were made. That falls on Beamer in part, but not totally.
Okay, perhaps calling Duke unranked is unfair at this point, considering they're 8-2. Losing to BC and UMD is still unacceptable, though.
Both teams are bowl-eligible. Should we have won? Maybe. But it's not like we pulled a JMU here.
We shouldn't have to use the "pull a JMU" card, though. Another loss on the coaching staff. It's on the coaches to bring back a team after a tough loss like Boise State, and is led by the head coach.
All I'm saying is that every team we've lost to this year (1) is in the FBS, (2) has a winning record, and (3) is bowl-eligible. Our team had a TON of questions coming into this year, was bitten by injuries at unfortunate times, and still was in the thick of the conference championship hunt coming into today (heck, we still are). Before this season, no one knew if we'd even have a winning record. Given the product that has been put together, we're a decent team that has lost to decent teams. This whole thing is getting blown ridiculously out of proportion.
All of that is very true, but the inconsistency of this team can't be denied either.
I think that speaks directly to the incoherent recruiting of the past 5 or so years. We have talent, but it doesn't mesh. Haphazard plan in recruiting = haphazard results on the field.
Please stop using recruiting as the reason were losing. Because teams that don't even have what we have are doing better than us. Let's just say we lost again to a better team yesterday.
I'm not saying recruiting is the reason we're losing, but it's definitely part of it. You're right that we got straight-up outplayed yesterday, but when you've got players who do not have the skillsets that the current coaches want, due to the fact that there was no attempt by the previous coaches to recruit to complementary strengths, you're bound to get beaten eventually. Cutcliffe is succeeding because he's realizing his vision after several years of poor play. His players are coming together and buying into his system. If we continue on our current trajectory (decent recruiting of needed players in certain positions), we are bound to improve.
That JMU game was just completely idiotic scheduling. No one schedules a game five days after a huge, highly ranked opponent.
The scheduling shouldn't matter when you play a team who doesn't even make the FCS tournament that season.
You play a hard-fought, extremely physical football game to start the season, and you think your players will be ready to play at a high level just five days after? Most schools schedule a bye week after games like that.
My point exactly. Regardless of what the AD schedules, the coaches must get the players back up.
No... that's not your point at all. You're saying the coaches have to somehow make the players heal up, get focused, and do it again in just five days.
I'm saying no team does that (except for the silly scheduling by Weaver), because it doesn't work.
I'm not saying the team has to be 100% after a loss like that at all. They should be good enough to beat JMU, though.
So that's on Weaver? whatever the schedule was we still should have been prepared to play regardless. In my opinion that's what defines a champion someone that will be prepared to play no matter what when or where. Do you think Bama should not setup there schedule with challenges every year back to back weeks so that they don't lose a game? No they welcome it! That is coaching to prepare your team to play for back to back games and that starts during training camp so they knew we had that game and scheduled before it was played so why didn't they prepare ahead of time???
By the way this is a good debate, i think its hold to hear others opinions on good topics. So this wasn't wrote to offend you or anyone else.
When has Bama made a schedule like that? They love to alternate "tough" games with cupcakes.
They followed Texas A&M with Mountain West Colorado state, Ole Miss with the winless Georgia State from the Sun Belt conference, LSU with the 4-6 Mississippi Sate team, then to prepare for Auburn they are playing the challenging Chattanooga Mocs from the FCS.
Tell me where exactly they have back-to-back challenges in that schedule.
PS: My ire isn't really directed at you - it's directed at teams like Alabama who can get away with a mediocre schedule because everyone's already sold on them winning the championship.
So what your saying is Bama wouldn't be up to the challenge? So what your saying is JMU was too tough of a game? Maybe we should have backed out? Should we not have been prepared to play it or not? Did we not know the schedule before we played it? Bama keeps there players focused I will give it to Saban he keeps those kids motivated and prepared even during the offseason. I mean football is a physical sport but its also mental toughness as well.
Also, I just wish that our fans would stop blaming Weaver for that year and that loss to JMU, because whether you want to admit it or not if we won this game it wouldn't have been a problem now would it? I have zero excuses we lost ''scheduling'' had nothing to do with it. And was it Weaver's fault or whoever that made the schedule when we got blown out in a bowl game that year to Stanford? Or was it just a coincidence?
Rocket this is a good argument that you have and your not certainly not wrong either.
Also, I guarantee we would not have lost to JMU, had we beaten Boise State, and, had we not fallen behind 17-0 in the 1st quarter, we could have won that game. With that being said, I also think that if the loss to JMU had not have happened we would not have won 11 straight. That's just my opinion, though. But, the fact that we fell behind 17-0 is on coaches, easily. They had an entire summer to prepare for Boise State, and there's no excuse for everything that happened in the first quarter. If Boise had jumped out to a 7-0 or 10-0 lead, okay, that's fine, they were a very good team. But, we were also a good team.
Noah, I agree and that was my point we had all summer to prepare for that game and yet we lost. That team we had with Tyrod that year was not short of talent in any way. I hear too much about recruiting better talent, but if were not coaching them up the way they need to be coached up then what? Okay, and to be honest how come we lost to Stanford that year 40 to 12? Didn't we have enough time to prepare for them as any other bowl game that we've played. All, I'm trying to say is the argument is getting old. That year Bud's Defense didn't do well at all if I could remember. We'd normally give up the first scores of the game and counted on our offense to win games that year. I'm not saying that Beamer and Co aren't good coaches before someone says this remark...smh just my opinion.
When I say this isn't personal I mean this by the way to everyone I seriously enjoy a good debate that's nothing personal or anything I'm not trying to belittle anyone's opinion what so ever.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you just said. Stanford really exposed our weaknesses in the second half, and we failed to adjust. We were only down 13-12 at halftime. And you're also right about that team always falling behind early. Fell behind by 17 to Boise, fell behind by 10 to ECU, fell behind by 17 to NC state, fell behind by 14 to Georgia Tech, and I'm sure there were a couple more. It was quite amazing how we came out with 11 straight wins.
I'm simply saying that the schedule did not put us in a good position to win that game - it's up to the players to win it, but the playing games so close together didn't help.
Duke gets no love in the human polls because of their name.
In the computer rankings, it's likely because their schedule was lighter in the front.
But they've earned the right to get a number now.
I would say its its safe to say Duke will replace Miami in the polls and be in the 23-25 range.
Dude FSU fans were calling for Jimbo's head for a year or two when they weren't impressive, it wasnt instant success there either, patience man, to do it right it takes a few years. Hell even Nick Saban had a rough first year with bama and he sold his soul!!!
Jimbo was in his first seasons as a head coach, though. You'd think after 27 seasons of being a head coach at the FBS (formally 1-A level) level Frank Beamer would have figured out what it takes to prepare a team to beat teams they're favored over consistently.
At some point you have to consider the fact that maybe this football team isn't as good as you think they are.
We have one of the best defense in the country, a fifth year quarterback, a running back who rushed for over 100 yards on the #1 team in the country, and a decent playcaller.
Most of Trey's yards came on one run (which was beautiful and shows what can happen when things come together). Other than that, we pretty much had no offense against Bama.
a majority of those yards came on one run though...
He had a few other runs that made many people say, "Whoa, Tech has a running back for the future."
Typically "the future" is measured in terms of years, not weeks.
Didn't say weeks. Was just saying that Trey showed flashes of potential.
But the problem is, you're using that RB as evidence that this team is talented enough to win more than they are. You can't say the RB is part of the talent on the team and reason to succeed, then walk it back to say that he only has potential. You're absolutely right that Trey has potential, flashes of greatness even, but the complementary pieces on this team simply aren't there right now. In a year or two, they will be and Trey will be the beast we all expect him to be.
I said we had more than Trey, though. Look at our defense with two true freshman playing defensive back. Our fifth year QB is spectacular when he is given the chance and wants to be.
No question on that. Just singling out the argument involving Trey. But he's a lot like most of our offensive players - can be great, but not consistently. And our O-line is a mess, which kills a lot of opportunities.
I agree. And no one can really point a finger at inconsistency, because you don't know what happens at practice, in the locker room, in the players' minds, the coaches' minds, etc. I just think these coaches should know how to deal with inconsistency more effectively than what we've seen as Hokie fans in the last 12 or so years.
YAY FOR INTELLIGENT INTERNET CONVERSATIONS!!!
76 of those 100+ yards came on one play. Our fifth year QB is in his first year of actual coaching on how to be a QB, and while our defense is very good, they're starting to get banged up and they can't do it all alone.
This team just doesn't have the talent to play how we all want them to right now. The new staff seems to be doing their best to fix that, but you have to bring recruits in and coach them up. It takes time.
I certainly don't want anyone to be talking about CFB needing to go.
But as far as how good of a team this is? They're definitely better than MD which is why that loss really sucked....
Along with Duke and BC, I'm my opinion... And many of the teams talked about in this post.
At least those coaches have all won MNCs (or at least 1). As was covered in another post Beamer hasn't seemed to have overcome his weaknesses.
Agree.
Beamer brings so much more to the program than what you see on the field or pick up on bulletin board chatter.
Recruits are attracted to Tech because of the atmosphere, winning is a bonus. Beamer runs a clean program, he is in a league of his own when it comes to that. Before the scandal, PSU wasted alot of hot air calling for JoPa to call it quits. Let's focus on something positive and let Frank finish out his legendary career on his own terms.
YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH! FRANK BEAMER IS A SAINT! (and so is Dorothy Mantooth)
Now - Get in here for the REAL thing!!!
Aaron Moorehead?
He is aware of being a twin btw.
"HOT ROUTE!"
I really hope someone got a picture or screen grab of the two dudes at the game today with Moorhead and Vaughn faces. They made it on the video board almost as much as the HOAT.
Just when I started asking myself, "where are the memes?" you delivered.
I'm not for jumping on the fire Beamer wagon, but this is the second "down" season in a row. While we can say if not for bad decisions/turnovers we would have beat Duke, we could just as easily lost games at ECU and at home to Marshall. VT needs an influx of offensive talent and our special teams are a major burden. I feel for Bud, guy flat out puts great plans together each week and has to carry offense and special teams.
I think that influx is coming in the next couple of years.
I hope so.....be nice to think we could put some points on the board, give the D some help.
And recruiting is looking to be that influx of talent. Patience, my friend.
Let's take a moment to appreciate that 2 "down" years still include 7 (and hopefully more) wins. Each. Not total. That's not a bad deal. Let's give the man time to right the offensive ship with the new blood, both coaches and players, he's brought in.
Want to know what a down year REALLY looks like? Stanford, '06. 1 win (over a winless Washington team in the pillow fight of the century).
I respect the opinion of everyone on this forum, as there is no right or wrong, but is everyone seriously content with losing to one or two unranked teams every season and only having one top 25 win in two seasons to show for it?
Kinda seems like you think there is in fact a right and a wrong.
Not content, but given the fact that you just described nearly every team that plays college football, I'm not going to lose sleep every time we lose. Can we be better? Yep. Should we? Maybe. Ask me that again in a couple years when the (long overdue) new coaches have a chance to build up a program of their choosing.
No. But I think the SS Hokie is on the right course now. We need to be patient though, she won't come into the docks of National Championship city immediately. She's still out at sea.
Excellent metaphor.
Step 1: stop talking about a national championship. It's not realistic. Once you get past that threshold, happiness will follow.
The national championship is like the lottery, you can play it, but don't base your household budget on it. Bama is Trump, they don't need the lottery.
But even Bama struggles when their coaching is not top notch, (The Shula years)
Bama wasn't Bama then....USC was.
Coaching again
Some say coaching, others say impermissible benefits.
Don't play birthdays either...
Then why doesn't Frank take that damn empty trophy case put of the athletic center then? If it isn't our goal then don't get our hopes up by saying you are doing whatever it takes to get there.
They are trying to get there. You need to work on being more realistic. Anyone could see they wouldn't make it this year, but they're trying to make improvements that will help them get closer in future years.
I honestly don't think they are trying to the best of their abilities. We have had numerous chances to get there and we always come up short. 07 bc and lsu for starters. All those seasons starting and moving up to the top 4 or 5 and the. Tanking the last four games of the year. The list is only growing w each season that passes.
What football team are you watching, exactly?
A team that lost to duke Maryland and Boston college. Duke maybe a respectable win if they continue this run they are on. We show up against Miami and then lose to Maryland. I'm watching a team that doesn't want to win it seems like. Been seeing this team for the past two seasons.
You're watching a mediocre football team with really high expectations of that team. So when they don't win every game, you think they're tanking. They just aren't that good. I'm sorry, I don't know what else to tell you.
You honestly don't think HCFB, his assistants, and the players aren't giving 100%?
I really do not know what to say to that.
Those guys work their asses off for us, the fan, to sit, watch, and hopefully have a great year. Frank Beamer had his first day off a few weeks ago and Shane tweeted a pic of the two of them going on a recruiting trip. These coaches and players work so hard, day in and day out. I would not doubt their effort.
Amen to that. Last week, we found out Loeffler works up to 19 hours a day. Dude pretty much lives in his office. Side note: he still took the time this morning to answer an email I sent him last night. How cool is that?
We heard all summer and fall how Logan and the seniors kept the team working like they haven't in years, trying to fill that trophy case. They knew if they pulled the upset against Bama, they had a shot and that was their goal all along. Even when they're out of the NC hunt, the goal is ALWAYS (pretty realistically) the ACC championship. This program has higher goals than a lot of college football teams.
No. I want to be undefeated every season. I have done it on Nintendo so I don't understand why Beamer can't do it in real life.
Sweet. Leg for you.
Video games are pervading everything. It's even become common to the announcers' lexicon these days. In the Miami-Duke game, on a kick return, a Miami player broke a tackle with a spin move and the announcer said, "he just hit the B-button there!" It was hilarious and sad at the same time.
The last football video game I played was Madden '96. Toss to the RB every time and I racked up over 100 points every game. Same play. Every. Damn. Time. It was awesome, but I guess real football is hard :)
Wrong! Qb waggle and pitch to the tight end. No need to bring running backs into this
The key to success according to my PS2 is to run the punt block every single play on defense and the fake punt every single play on offense.
Beamer ball. Maybe he does coach video-game style
Don't get me started talking about Tecmo Super Bowl. I had seasons where the game stopped counting my stats they were so high. buffalo bills baby
No.
I recently watched a replay of highlights from a 2008 game (@Nebraska) (WIN)
take a look at any game from that era. You will find a much different
product than the past 2 seasons. I am pointing this out to
state that many fans are accustomed to seeing a well oiled football machine
like it was in 2008 - its understandable to be spoiled or 'entitled'
Its a 'problem' that can be fixed and it begins with coaching.
Coaching that the current staff is completely capable of providing.
GO HOKIES BEAT THE WAHOOS!
FIRE FRANK HIRE KIFFEN
Genius! Go for it!
Do we deserve Kiffin? We aren't THAT good yet.
I think you might be on to something. I heard Kiffin proclaim that Va Tech was his "Dream Job".
Frank needs to wise up and fire the special teams coach. Punt return for touchdown and missed field goal were the difference. Let him just manage the game. Can't stand to see him on the sidelines with that Parkinsons stare after another special teams fiasco.
Completely uncalled for.
Congrats. My first downvote is for you. Bye now.
BTW, just like to use this comment as a reminder for the fundraiser I'm doing in honor of Jim Weaver for Parkinson's research. Link below to make a donation:
https://www.fundraise.com/kalyan-amara/fundraiser-for-jim-weaver
StinyFTL FTW.
I'm just impressed that you typed all this from your phone.
It literally took an hour.
Read second paragraph, ignored the rest. Don't mean to be a jerk, but I'm thinking you'd better be careful what you wish for. How many programs would kill to have 7+ wins during a rebuilding year? To have the worst season in 20 years include 7 wins and a bowl victory and STILL get most of the offensive staff fired? Again, be careful what you wish for. There's not a whole lot separating a 3-win team from an 8- or 10-win team. Beamer has his faults, and he'll be the first to admit that I'm sure. But still, having a clean program that wins games (not every game, but a very solid majority), is pretty darn good in this day and age of college football. We'll see where we are in a couple years, but I see no reason to start bailing on the guy now.
This is Frank Beamer we're talking about. He built this program from nothing into a national power. He's set the bar so high that we get upset after losses like this.
I'm as frustrated as anyone today, and during most of the losses you described over the years... but how many teams don't experience losses like that? It's football, that stuff happens. Should fsu have fired Jimbo Fisher, a much less proven coach, after losses to wake and nc state? If the higher ranked team always won there would be no point in playing the games.
Actually... There is one person who is much more frustrated than me... Frank beamer... and as long as we have a coach who wins a lot of games and I can trust is trying everything he possibly can to make our team better, I'm more than happy. Not to mention that, as many others have pointed out, our rebuilding years are better than what Alabama, Notre Dame, Tennessee, and now Florida are going through.
We haven't had our last great season with Beamer at the helm, that I'm sure of.
Beamer is the man, I'm grateful we have him.
I also don't think Beamer can take us to the highest level, though. He got us to this level to compete, sure, but he can't take us higher.
You mean like he did in '99? There are a lot of programs in college football that do a whole lot less with a whole lot more, in terms of resources available to the program.
Not to rain on the parade of the 1999 season... That was a wonderful season in which very talented players were coached to win. But, we didn't play the greatest schedule in the world that season. Yes, we murdered almost every team we played, but if we had played a couple more top 25 teams it could have been different. Great team, nonetheless, though.
The top teams do this all the time. Play one or two strong opponents, crush the weaker ones, and rely on perception to get you to the top (or keep you there).
We played four teams ranked in the top-25 that year, albeit all were in the bottom half. Still, I'd call that schedule harder (in terms of number of top-25 opponents) than what most top-25 teams play nowadays.
See: Ohio State, Florida State.
Exactly. The schedule that tOSU has played is just laughable. They scored 60 today - against whom? Oh, Illinois, who hasn't won a conference game since...well...
Beamer already has taken us to the highest level. I realize that was 14 years ago but I find it difficult to day someone can't do something they've already done.
Give this time... Maybe with new coaches on O we get there, maybe we don't... but if we get back to ACCtitles we're winning the right way I'll be happy.
Again... In very grateful that we have Frank
Nick Saban has taken Alabama to the highest level, what, 3 or 4 times? And Pete Carroll took USC there 3 times as well.
Not every team can have a Nick Saban or a Pete Carroll. I'm grateful for Beamer, he's still one of the best coaches in the country, and plenty of schools would love to have him.
And Carroll was cheating his ass off.
That is true... Still can't deny he was one heckuva college coach, though.
... I don't understand. how can you say someone is a great coach if you believe their wins are invalid?
... if you're not cheating, you're not trying?
No, that's rationalizing.
I started following VT football in 2002, sadly I was in high school and tuned out in 99...
Http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2013/november/12/whats-your-best-hokie-footba...
Remember this thread? The tone can't change this much week to week... Beamer is a GREAT coach, a hall of famer, he is doing his absolute best to right the ship and I trust him more than anyone else to do so...
We owe all these experiences to beamer... And there will be many more before he's done...
I'd like to hear people give Bud more credit for the run of 10 win seasons at VT....also, the "Vick" effect led to a surge in recruiting, fund raising, campus growth, etc...that not even Frank can take credit for
Agree that bud is a gigantic party if our success, but...
if Frank ultimately takes the blame for losses resulting from player mistakes, bad calls by assistant coaches, etc... Then he gets credit for bringing in Bud and Vick
Great post
Its been a roller coaster ride man...but I loved every moment even the painful ones...Hokies have a lotta heart, keep the faith brother
Before I head to the bars of Richmond for the night, just be glad we're not the Florida Gators. In fact, short of a miraculous final two wins this season (FSU being one of those), they will cede 2nd place to us for longest active bowl streaks. 1st place has been the Seminoles for quite some time.
Nice post man. I agree something is not working and it needs to be fixed. I know stinky held us back for quite sometime but the thing is, it should have never lasted that long. If you ain't cutting the mustard then you need to go. It's simple as that. One thing I think a lot of fans are not looking at is the how much more mediocrity can Foster take? One of these days if something doesn't change we are gonna wake up and see him coaching somewhere else and I don't know about you but I want foster on the Hokies side. You can say what you want but he always has his defense ready to play and they given us a chance in 95% of our games. Maybe we need a lunch pail offense and lunch pail special teams? Maybe if they had the same mentality of our defense we could get some where.
Well we used to back when we had that power running game (which is starting to come back) and when Beamerball was still in existence. I agree 100%, though. The defense rarely gives up more than what they're supposed to every team they play, and the defense can only hang on for so long when the special teams and offense is constantly putting them in uncomfortable situations.
I'll just leave this here.
The beginning I think covers why we want Beamer around as long as possible. The bit starting at 1:40 I think addresses your last sentence.
If nothing else, you need to appreciate how cool it is that we have someone who can attract people just by being so gosh darned nice.
Can we all just hug and remember that we will come back from this stronger like Beamer always has. If you think that there is anyone on this earth that Virginia Tech could currently hire that would do a better job than Beamer is I would like to hear the list. I mean realistically give me names of who you would replace him with. Im listening.
Nick Saban, Pete Carrol, Lane Kiffin, Mike London, Vince Lombardi. I don't see what's wrong with any of those suggestions.
Agree x1000. Beamer is the man for the job.
Don't forget the high school coach on King of the Hill and Dante N. Ferno from Mutant League Football.
NOBODY!!!
Anyone else find it strange that the same people who called for Logan's head are now calling for Frank's?
I mean correct me if I am wrong here?
i feel like ur implying that its okay to lose a game and not fire / replace someone...that is ludicrous, everyone knows the best way to deal with a loss is to get rid of everyone at all critical positions within the organization. that guarantees better results the following week.
I never called for Logan's head. He's played fantastic the last two weeks. Logan does deserve to be benched in some games, though. He has it some games and others he doesn't, and when he doesn't, oh boy...
Your exact comment to Logan Thomas being worse than Grant Noel and Sean Glennon was "Y'all can downvote this all you want, but I agree, wholeheartedly, with this" and then "Mark Leal should get his shot." Maybe not calling for his head - but you wanted change after a loss. And now, when Logan plays well, you want a different form of change.
I understand - you think change will help. It might. But please be patient. Beamer is the best coach we can get. He knows how to win. We have new coaches who are bringing new life to the program. Give it time.
I did not agree with the fact that he was worse than Noel or Glennon... I should have made that point more clear. Apologies. But, after seeing Logan these last two weeks I've realized that he's either going to be one of the best quarterbacks in the country for a game or he's going to turn the ball over three or four times, and usually make one critical one. We can usually tell which game he's going to have after one or two, maybe three, offensive possessions. Yesterday, he played great. No turnovers, nice completion percentage, had some very nice runs; he just had no time to throw the football. Perhaps that comment was a little unfair, because he does give us the best chance to win, but his inconsistency, along with our entire team, is very frustrating. But, I guess if you want one player benched for inconsistency you must call for the rest of the players too, and James Gayle didn't play so hot yesterday, as did anyone on the offensive line.
you need to add disclaimers to your posts
+1
Great post ! I find myself lost as to why we are so inconsistent as well. Some say we aren't that good or don't have talent. I disagree with both. I'm proud of what Beamer has done... But I don't think he's the guy to fill that empty case. Maybe we can beat an aweful UVA next week and end on a good note. I just look forward to the day when we have an offense that can compliment Bud's defense.
Its entirely possible the Beamer is not the guy to fill the empty case. But that is not why we love him. We love him because he has integrity and grit. We love him because he refuses to get down on his team. We love him because he is more stable than the hokiestone that built Virginia Tech. It would be a shame if that became lost on us as we reach for greater heights. 98% of college football would give anything for the kind of stability and winning seasons that we have enjoyed solely because of Frank Beamer. I hope that we win a national championship one day, but I am not willing to give up on Frank for the fraction of a percent chance that whoever is hired can be that guy.
very well said
These are the active coaches who have won a national championship:
1. Nick Saban
2. Urban Meyer
3. Steve Spurrier
4. Mack Brown
5. Bob Stoops
6. Les Miles
Just six current NCAA coaches have won a NC. The list is soon to be 5 if Brown gets canned. I don't think we are going to find anyone with a track record of putting teams in the NC and winning them.
7. Larry Coker
I completely forgot he started over at UTSA. Good find.
I miss our days of being the underdog. We didn't demand championships or expect them. Frank Beamer's team took the field just to show people were wrong. This backwoods mountain town of Blacksburg (with a "ridiculous" mascot and school colors only a true hokie could love) had something to prove.
Our fan base believed we could help our team win games by being loud enough and crazy enough to shake up an opposing offense. We won games by being tougher and crazier than the other team. Blocked kicks, pick 6's, smash mouth football, and crazy broken play QB scrambles.
At the helm of this rag tag group has always been Frank Beamer. Turning 3 stars and walk ons into NFL talent.
That's the team I root for, and that's how I want to see them win games. Screw these video game offenses: that's for arena league football. I wanna see walk-on Cody Grimm strip the football 4 times in a game. I wanna see Vinnie Fuller return a blocked kick to a touchdown, I wanna see 3rd and Logan, I want DW4 punt returns for TD to win the game.
Quite frankly, NoahDye: No offense, but fans like you are ruining college football for me. Your opinion is yours and you are entitled to it, but understand this kind of thinking decays this great sport and a legacy of great Hokie football.
Sorry for being tired of seeing the same crap every year. We've had some great moments, but we're past those days. We've showed everyone that Tech can compete. Now let's go to the next level instead of being content with losing to unranked teams and never winning a BCS bowl game.
4 teams a year win a BCS bowl game.
4 teams a year get to lose one.
We've been one of the 8 rather often.
Losing the NCG is something I understand you can't remember because in '99 you were too young. You really haven't seen the same crap every year.
You've seen the same good team every year. Just not the same Great team every year.
Some of us remember crap and sir, the past 10 years have not been crap.
By the time you get to college, we may be approaching great but, it won't be in 2 weeks and It won't be at the Spring game, which we will cheer and go nuts and analyze anyway.
We are not content, we are just patient. You will see, Grasshopper, the difference is the world.
I understand I'm young, but I have watched highlights, and even full games, of every game since 1999, and some even before that. I understand Frank Beamer dug us out of a serious hole with very little to work with because of what Dooley left him with, but it shouldn't take rocket science to figure out that we truly are one of the most inconsistent teams in college football. Also, since 2001 Tech has finished lower in the polls than where they opened up the season at every season except 2004 and 2008. I'm ready to see a team take off to the next level. Y'all can settle for 10 win seasons every year (those are starting to go away, also), but I'm ready to see Tech win more than just a Chick-Fil-A bowl here and there.
I think we see that coming up. Changes have been made. We'd all like to see the Hokies win at a higher level, but that isn't this season. There's just too many things in flux at the moment. Thankfully we have a talent influx coming it to match our coaching influx we had recently.
I think your definition of inconsistent is the issue here. Most everyone would consider inconsistency to be winning seasons and losing seasons mixed in. Your idea of inconsistency is losing 2-3 games a year.
My idea of inconsistent is the teams we lose to compared to the teams we beat.
You're also describing a lot of teams in college football. Heck, look at what's happened to Stanford, LSU, and so many others just this year.
You don't have 8 consecutive 10 win seasons by being inconsistent.
You don't have a 20 game bowl winning streak by being inconsistent.
You don't walk into a new conference and win 4 out of the first 7 conference championships by being inconsistent.
You don't go to 4 ACC championships in 5 years and win 3 of them by being inconsistent.
You don't go to 4 BCS bowls in 5 years by being inconsistent.
You don't become the winningest active coach by being inconsistent.
You do all of those things by having the most consistent coach, and program, in the country with Frank Beamer.
Look at every other team in the ACC. FSU, Miami, Clemson, all have performed less than we have since we joined the ACC.
I would love to end this discussion, because honestly, all it does it rile a good bit of people up about something that is not going to happen. The risk of getting rid of HCFB is so far greater than the reward, that it scares many of us on here. Go ask any WVU, UT, Nebraska fan: looking for the next hot hand is not so easy. Frank Beamer, even though he might not be in his prime is a top ten coach. There are only a few elite coaches. Only 6 active coaches have won NCs. A handful more have played for one. We have one- so get behind him!
Again, look at the quality of our losses compared to the quality of our wins...
ACC Championships speak volumes to me. And we have more than FSU/Clemson/Miami.
Every team is going to lose games it shouldn't. Even Alabama.
So let's get a new coach so we can get some high quality losses!
I'm tired of these stupid discussions. Football is football. You're not going to win it all.
Sir, if you do not consider winning the championship game of a major conference a quality win, I suspect you'll not be satisfied unless you acquire an Alabama situation come along, with numerous NCG wins.
I feel sorry for you. It's not likely to happen to any team you decide to support in your lifetime.
Yes, the ACCCGs were fun, but will we even have that in the future? Not when you lose to teams like Boston College and Maryland (I consider Duke a very solid team by now). Do FSU and Clemson lose to those teams? Did we lose to those kind of teams back when we won those championships (2008 aside)?
FSU and Clemson used to lose to those teams. We made a ton of changes, if you can't wait for those changes to take affect, then I feel sorry for you.
In reading something like this I feel like you don't understand the changes this program is going through right now. Grimes, Moorehead, and Loeffler don't have a single person that they have recruited out on the field. At the start of this season the players on the field didn't know a single Grimes/Moorehead/Loeffler play. At the start of this season, Moorehead didn't know a single Grimes/Loeffler play.
They're all out there making shit sandwiches. The fact that we have a winning record is pretty exciting in light of all that. I honestly expected us to do more poorly than we did last year. You're calling for all of these changes to the program when the program is changing.
As I read all of these posts about how change needs to come (again) and everything, I'm sitting here thinking, "didn't the Jews start bailing on Moses pretty much right after they got out of Egypt?" I mean really, people. We were clamoring for change after last year and we got it. The change (Lefty, Grimes, Moorehead) have all shown that they have the ability to be successful. Let's give them more than 9 months to actually do their jobs and build the program, yeah?
They've had nine months. There should be a new baby Fuller by now.
I just want to say that I have posted multiple times to this thread. NoahDyeNotDie, you are a really great guy to talk about football with. You are very level headed and calm. We haven't always agreed in this thread, and I appreciate that any cursing there was was mostly just cursing for the sake of cursing, not really directed at the other party. It's interactions like these that keep me coming back (unless we just lost to BC and everyone has just lost their shit out of sadness).
Oh, believe me, it hasn't been easy, but it's nice having some people who know what they are talking about, coming from West Virginia where about everybody is delusional when it comes to football.
I spent half an hour looking for Homer Simpson saying something to Bart that I thought was suitable to this situation. I fell short.
The OP is focusing on all our tough losses over the years; it would be interesting if someone went through all the great wins we've had in detail as well. I really only became a superfan starting in 06', but the great wins that stood out to me are:
2006: Clemson
2007: ECU (win was ugly, but huge moral victory), Clemson, FSU, Miami, UVA, BC (the second time...)
2008: GT, UNC, Nebraska, MD, BC (the second time...), Cinci
2009: Nebraska, Miami, UVA (every win over UVA is a great win!), Tennessee
2010: N.C. State, FSU
2011: Miami, UVA (38-0, bro), Michigan (we won that game, dammit)
2012: None
2013: Miami
Though I definitely agree we've lost WAY too many BIG games we should have won. The glaring ones to me are: Kansas, Georgia, Michigan, Boise
when you build it, you can keep it as long as you want to. no questions asked. none.
Over the last 10 years of College Football those are the ones that are leaving. There's not many coaches like Beamer and Mac Brown around. When you have one its truly special to hold on to them. But just like Frank said he knows that he can outstay his welcome so if he knows it then why can't we accept it? I believe he has a target year that he hasn't told anyone, but I rather him leave on his own than tarnish his reputation losing to teams that has no business beating us. Frank is a first ballot Hall of Famer in my book, but I don't want people second guessing his work that he's done and where he's brought this team from to where it's at now. That's my true and honest opinion of Frank. There isn't a better coach that him that will watch after his players care for there futures as men as he does. And that to me is more than any National Championship could ever bring if he doesn't win one before he retires.
And the thing about it is.
With the Freshmen we have right now, if a few more things fall in line, I can see a NCG run in 2015.
I see the improvements in many things on offense this year. I see enough that it brought into focus what the kids weren't being taught before. It may be part of my frustration with these guys calling for changes now because I think the changes were put in place last winter that might be exactly what they are calling for.
If one of our guys that are redshirt or backups right now is a good QB.
If a couple players step up to take some leadership roles.
If we can continue to develop the Freshman and sophomores that we have, guys with the determination of Rogers and Dadi and Hughes and develop their size, strength and get them the physical training and mental understanding of the game, if we can recruit some guys to back them up then 2015+ can be a thing of beauty.
Let's Go.
You said it best. I agree. Next year will be a better year. I just hope we can finish strong this year.
It is tough to sell Hokie Club memberships and upgrades when we lose to games in which we are favored, AT HOME. more wins=more donor money, it's that simple.
That showed with the lack of sellouts this year. Noon kickoff, no Thursday nights too.
HCFB deserves to leave on his own terms, and I doubt a new AD and President would have the gall to suggest/approve his firing a hall of fame coach after almost 30 years of service because of a couple of seasons in which he still took the team to the post season.
Plus, let's be real, Beams isn't going anywhere until after this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oOvl-90GPU
Yeah, I agree, barring something unforeseen, we've got him at least until after 2016, a year after winning the NCG.
Right...Andrew Ford leads us to the promised land...Frank rides off into the sunset....Fade to black...
Let's not forget the guaranteed return to the National Championship comes around the year ~2022; Vick's son should be at VT by then.
NoahDyeNotDie -
Just curious, but here's a two-part question for you -
1. how long have you been a Tech football fan,
2. how long have you been a fan of college football?
2 things.
1) He won't be replying to you.
2) He's 16 years old, he hasn't been a fan for all that long.
2 more things:
1) he's a stinking UVA fan
2) UVA SUCKS!
This thread makes me ill.
The guy that started it was a troll, he was kicked.
Glad to hear that original post may be a troll. Frank is VT football!!! Any of you guys remember the last time we lost to VMI? 1981. Frank came in 87 an turned us into a program that people want to play! I only wish we could have another 25 years of Frank!