Well, after that terrible job of coming out and beating a banged up, bad football team after a huge win to keep your championship hopes alive, I have a theory about what plagues this football team.
The only explanation I can think of for failing to play up to their abilities in games against lesser opponents (BC, Maryland, even some of the wins, and I'll count Duke in their as well), is that this team just simply does not have good leaders. They can't consistently come out and play their best football, and when they have early struggles against a weaker opponent, they can't seem to shake out of it.
What do you all think?
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Agree, sadly.
Let's step using the "lesser opponents" line. When you get pushed around by Duke, Maryland, and BC...we just might be the lesser opponent
I agree- we were pushed around today. But I feel like we also weren't playing nearly at the level this team is capable of playing at. For example, the Miami game was evidence of what this team can be. My point is - if we can play that well, and yet the players consistently do not play that well, what is the reason for that? I think it's leadership, or a lack thereof.
Disagree. Duke did not push us around. We beat them up and down the field. The turnovers, missed FGs and play calling cost us that one. BC was a sleep walk (no excuse). Md was a different story. Not sure if I think they pushed us around as much as we kept taking ourselves out of successful situations.
The point is, it's quite possible BC and Duke are more respectable squads than anyone wants to give them credit for.
All of us here on Tkp have been guilty allseason of discounting these teams that beat us fair an square.
Duke and BC are greatly improved from previous years, yes. But if this team played like the team that beat Miami, and did it every week, do you think we'd have four losses?
Agreed.
In reality, not giving respect to those teams that beat us, means we are the bad team.
We still have horrible play calling. The offensive line was neglected for years and the leadership the last two years is as bad as it gets.The special teams are a disaster. ACC refs are abysmal. Other than that we're good. I feel a little bit better now.
Agree with BOTH top commenters. Strongly.
I can't understand why we are soo inconsistent. How we beat Miami last week and loose this week makes no sense.to me it's all about bad coaching. Bad team leaders learn from bad coaches. Maybe it's time for the Bud Foster era to begin.
Saying the winningest active coach in college football is a "bad" coach is a bit of an overreaction to me, I think. When it gets down to it, the players have to take responsibility. My question is, who on this team is holding them accountable from one player to another?
Yea but beamer is on the path of bobby Bowden. Your praising beamer for his past accolades. Its about evolving as a team and moving forward. We have done nothing but take 2 horrible steps back in the last 2 yrs. There is a lot of problems with this team. We haven't had any special teams in 5 years. I don't think beamer is keeping up in the coaching aspect of the league
We're still not as bad as we were last year- so really, this is a step forward from last year.
I do think they're evolving as a team, and I know it's going to take some time, and there's going to be some bumps on the way. What I think we're dealing with is a young team, without many vocal leaders.
I agree with the young team and we will only get better, but beamer needs to catch himself back up in the times as a HC. The game is evolving and he is not as far as his coaching goes. That's just my personal opinion tho
I'm curious to see what you'd like him to do differently? This seems like a rather vague criticism. Can you define this a bit better?
He needs to update his coaching strategies. What he has been doing on ST's hasn't worked in 5 yrs or so. We are consistently bad there. The things that worked over the years on ST's isn't working now. He should tweak the system, add some wrinkles. Something to stay ahead of the game. All coaches of every team should be doing this from year to year
Beamer only personally oversees part of the ST game. Wiles and Shane take other parts. Ultimately, Beamer is responsible for the entire team, since the HC is always the CEO, so to speak, but we've basically just been average on ST in recent years. Some teams are better, some are much worse.
I see a word in there that concerns me: Shane. I want Baby Beamer to succeed as much as the next guy, but I just feel like he has too many responsibilities too fast. Especially after today when we saw JC Coleman in on power running situations where the clear choice was #TouchdownTrey. But again, as I've said in the past, what I know I only know from watching lots of football, not from eating, breathing, sleeping, and working at football. I trust that the decisions that he makes are better than the decisions that I make, and I trust the the reason he is there is that someone who knows more than I do decided it was what was best.
I was very confused by the RB rotation today. Trey was going beast mode for the first few series, then JC comes in and tries to run between the tackles. It just doesn't work for him. He's a speed guy and needs to go on sweeps. I'm also wondering why we never see JC and Trey in the backfield together, like the good old days of Suggs and Jones. The D would have to account for the power guy (Suggs/Trey) and the speed guy (Jones/JC). We never do that any more.
An opinion that's devoid of any basis or facts though.
How Has his coaching dragged behind the modern times? The best teams in the country all rely on a pro style team with great defenses. They do the same things that Beamer wants to do. He's not out there running the wishbone or anything
its a personal opinion man nothing more. I just think the game has passed beamer by that's all. But there are more glaring problems with this team than the coach
What does that mean though? He no longer knows football? His schemes are outdated? If so, which ones?
My point is, I think it's messed up to flippantly say "eh, dudes washed up" without having a specific reason as too why. We are talking about a mans career after all.
Hes gonna wear out his welcome more or less if the team doesn't get fixed. Aka Bobby Bowden'd
Ok
Beamer may not have built this whole house, but everything from the foundation up is his. That being said Frank's welcome will be worn out when he says it is. We're far from a bad team just an inconsistent one. There were two different teams out there today and it varied from possession to possession. This group reminds me so much of the '03 group that it's scary. Trounce Texas A&M one week and struggle with Uconn, get demolished by WVU one week and rip Miami the next then lose to Pitt. Hopefully we have another '04 season coming up next year.
It's funny. I remember someone comparing this team to the '03 group really early on. In a positive way. Like, "This team might be in contention for my favorite team since the '03 Hokies."
They're a loveable group of kids. They're just so all over the place. I think it's in part an age thing. I have so much hope for the future.
Nobody that watched that game in Morgantown remembers that team fondly I'm sure. Or that game against Temple where we won in overtime on a missed pat. It was cool watching a guy I went to high school with catch two tds against Rutgers though.
True. True. True. That being said, the '03 team wasn't my favorite. Personally I'm partial to the 2007 team.
'03 was the last time we lost to LOLUVA.
I have avoided making that comparison for exactly that reason.
Fucking Matt Schaub.
Beamer relies on assistants. Assistants are young and coaching the game. So not sure I agree that the game has passed Beamer by, as he has a collection of young guys putting it all together.
>> what Beamer wants to do
Offensively what does Beamer want to do? We played sandlot with mobile QBs and man low to the ground OL. With a bunch of weight training the OL was generally ready by year 4, 5 to create some space. Our running game was really good, but our QBs couldn't even make timing passes, much less analyze defenses on the fly.
So we couldn't get the elite offensive playmakers or OL that way so we tried to reinvent ourselves. By hiring guys that couldn't make it happen. The never going to happen sign has been hanging over the town of Blacksburg for at least five years now.
Pro style what? We certainly aren't doing that this year and its never been clear how that might help Frank and VT get the best talent on offensive from the state of Virginia. We go from read option to no more read option. Our QB throws a few pics this year and it becomes a discussion about "no turnovers". Playing not to lose is no strategy at all. Its the we got Bud and Bud ain't leaving strategy. We're just throwing some stuff at a wall, seeing if anything sticks... when that doesn't work we go right back to the "we got Bud" strategy.
The complaining fans, thoroughbreds, the fans that used to come to Bowl now regular season games but no longer do.... the common thread is noone believes a word Frank says about offensive development.
Maryland with all its problems created enough offense to beat a pretty good VT defense today. That Edsall guy from UCONN in a game where we had everything to play for they had nothing, curb stomped any hope we had for the ACC championship game. Hell of a game plan on the MD OC part. Maryland with all their problems had a couple of offensive playmaker guys I think would start right away for us.
Dabo hired a genius who turned them into a dynamo. When Clemson wants a 5 star offensive or defensive player, they give them serious consideration. When a 5 star defensive talent considers VT... its only because of trust with Bud, our DB coach or legacy issues... they generally realize we are a limited program that will give them a good education and a shot at the pros for DB and S positions.
If you don't know anything about offense, you have to hire someone that makes you look the fool. Otherwise everyone eventually figures you for the fool anyway. Unfortunately thats where many of the fans and observers of the program and ACC are now with Frank. Sad but true IMHO.
I think we still have to give the new coaches a couple of seasons. This was not an ideal situation for them to come into. But this situation is precarious and that is why I think it needs an AD tied to the new president, not hired by Weaver and Steger. Everyone needs to feel a little heat IMHO. We got Bud, a fantastic DB coach, a rabid fan base to build upon. Getting an offensive vision with concrete steps to making it happen should be job #1. Mis-steps should result in coaching changes that get made on VT's timetable not Frank's.
"Mis-steps should result in coaching changes that get made on VT's timetable not Frank's."
We literally just had coaching changes.
Well, limiting turnovers is critical to winning football games. I can't blame the coaches for not wanting them.
You just talked about how our QBs weren't able to analyze defenses or make the right reads before these coaching changes. Does anyone here think that the offense doesn't have a more structured passing game? I'd say there's been huge offensive development.
Well yeah, we've got a bunch of new coaches, with new philosophies, and a bunch of players who weren't recruited by, or coached by, these coaches before. Not everything the coaches want to do is going to work, they need to figure out what will and won't work with the players they have, before they can recruit players who will be able to execute the systems they want. I think most people would have anticipated a lot of "finding what sticks" on offense this year.
I agree you can't call him a bad coach but his special teams units, in every phase, have sucked for several years now. I'm beginning to think we got the Scott Loefler of Auburn instead of the one that showed promise at Temple. I don't have the football IQ of others on here, but I can't understand why we bother with the RB starting out wide - has he ever stayed there to do anything other than a screen pass? This read option stuff is garbage too. It doesn't seem to work but we keep on doing it. It doesn't appear we do anything well on offense - besides getting behind the chains.
I'm not overly optimistic right now.
I think the motion (including the RB) is designed to show Logan if the defense is playing man or zone coverage, etc. If a defender follows the player in motion, you know it's man, etc.
The reason we start with a running back out wide is to see how the defense aligns against a specific formation. Then later on, loeffler can call a play to exploit the defenses alignment
Lol was I just completely wrong about motion also being used to determine how a defense is playing coverage on that play? I always thought that was true...
It serves both functions but defenses now adays are complex enough that just motioning a man wont always give you an accurate representation of man vs zone
Well, you learn something new every day. Thanks!
Not a lack of leadership - it's a lack of talent, especially on offense.
I have a hard time agreeing with that as well - when this offense plays to what it's capable of, they can score. I don't think that Maryland, especially with all the injuries, has a better defense then say, Miami. Yet our players rarely play to the level that they've shown in games against better teams.
I'm more concerned with why it seems our players consistently play to the level of the opponent, rather than to the level they're capable of.
I agree with this comment simply because we have NO explosive players, and thus, no explosive plays. Our backs simply aren't quick enough and we only have one burner WR who can never get open deep.
I think Knowles was supposed to be that explosive player. But he hasn't really panned out as such
No OL talent. Came from 5 years of Frank falling asleep under a tree while his friends ran this program into the ground.
Love no 71. But when your best tackle is a guy you stole from ECU last year.... you should be happy you get anything from the OL. Thought he played a great game and is a great pickup for VT by the way. Just that we should have had a couple of 4 year 4 stars who were tough aggressive and football savvy enough to keep him off the field.
VT needs to not hire an AD until the new replacement for Steger is hired. The whole Athletic Department needs to be overhauled in a smart fashion. Hiring someone with no boss is a great recipe for hiring noone worth hiring.
Weaver has left his stamp on VT's athletic program. He should have no say on his replacement. We need new blood new life. Like it or not, an athletic program is one of the most effective forms of advertising available. This ACC conference is great but it comes with pros and cons. Right now the football program could become a casualty of the new conference if a new AD doesn't push Frank to develop a real offense. Not a "no turnovers" offense. A real offense. Did you see those guys on Maryland today. Sure some sucked but a couple of these kids who were buried on the depth chart there would have been playing for us and doing well. We need to recruit better O talent, both playmakers and on the line.
If we have no OL talent, how were we consistently pushing Miami off the ball last week? I feel like the play calling was bad. The pass protection sucked this game while I saw some decent blocking on running plays, yet we never tried to establish the run.
The OL is bad lol They have consistantly not been able to block well all year long. They have had a good game here and there. But being good is all about consistency. Until we can get the recruits in here for the Oline that we need its gonna be tough sledding
Miami is not a good team. Who have they beaten this year? Yes their talent level might be better than ours but the South Florida culture weakens that talent level significantly.
Our O is bad because we can't consistently get separation, we can't consistently run the ball.
Thomas might have been able to take this game on his shoulders, but because we're afraid of turnovers now, we didn't take the risks necessary to win. We played not to lose. You'll never recruit good offensive players with a "don't lose strategy"
I can guarantee you they already have a short list of president candidates. Each one of the finalist will have a say in the AD. They've even said the new AD would be named in feb. Expect a president named shortly after 1/1.
Hire a president. Then hire and AD.
Everything other timing option is just stupid. We have an interim in, no reason to rush the hire. Well there are reasons. New president should have his boys / his girls in key spots. Should not have Steger / Weaver AD. Thats just stupid.
Like it or not, but Steger, Weaver and the new President of the University will all have a say in who is hired for AD. There will be an overhaul throughout the department regardless, just because a lot of the senior level people are nearing the end of their careers anyway. My guess is by 3 years from now, there will be a lot of new people in senior level positions in the athletic department.
EVERYTHING goes through the offensive line. If you don't have one its not gonna matter what studs you have or don't have
It's called Frank Beamer, he's not hungry enough and it permeates through his team. He's to comfortable and is stuck in the past. No doubt he's a legend I'll give you that. The game has surpassed him in all aspects. His window has closed. You get beat on recruits from the dumpster fire coach at UVA on top class recruits, team is consistently inconsistent, offense can't compete year over year defense is your savior. Sound like yesteryear. College football has changed and he's to worried about being fair to his assistants and those whom have been loyal over the years. While that's admirable and I can relate to its not applicable in my opinion in the current BCS football era.
You have no idea what you are talking about
Maybe not just my opinion like yours. Look at our record the last few years against teams we should have beat. You don't fire the team you fire the coach. By no means am I suggesting that, all I am saying is why do we keep losing to these teams. Maybe the change has started time will tell. Just don't keep giving HFFB a pass without asking him the difficult questions. He's lucky he's in BBURG or he'd been crucified by the media. Hey I love the HOKIES more importantly the University. Just not sure he's not in his twilight and twilight turns into nighttime eventually.
Have you seen how fired up he gets on the sidelines? I'm sorry, but I don't think this is a very good analysis of the problems the team has.
I think he's more referring to Frank's ability to keep up with the global idea of bcs football rather than management during each individual game much like younger kids are always the ones keeping up with the hottest technology. While the old technology still works, its not the most efficient or exciting way to do it anymore.
Just to play devil's advocate, I can see how some people are ready for Frank to throw in the towell. From day to day, he's more of a CEO "big cheese" manager than he is a head coach. And yes, he is fantastic at managing the team and all of his coordinators. But at the end of the day, his title is still "coach" and a coach needs to connect and relate to his players. As much as it pains me to say this, head ball cop excels in this area as this has been reflected in recruiting. He brings excitment and companionship to young players out of high school in a way that (i'm not trying to be racist but we're all thinking it) an older white man simply can not compete with. I think the kids view frank more as that authoritative figure that he is and less as a friend they can joke around with and high five. Whats that you say? All those twitter videos of Frank dancing with the team? Lets be honest, its cute at the time but is that really quality bonding? We as older fans have to realize that young players minds are much more superficial than ours. They place importance on petty things such as appearance and age rather than looking beneath the skin. I might be starting to go offtopic here but there are numerous reasons that star recruits pick the hoos over the hokies that have nothing to do with the university or the football team's record. But I digress...some fans are looking to see a head coach that plays more of a traditional "coach" than CEO role because thats how it is for them in High School. Beamer is fantastic at what he does and has been for many years but I think that those fans shouting for his head are really just looking for that younger beamer that used to invent exciting plays for the players and fans to watch. Frank is so "by the book" these days and you can't argue that he sounds complacent in his interviews. Whether that is how he really feels, thats not what people want to hear after a loss.
Now take a step back...I don't agree with everything I said...just playing devil's advocate. I'm not ready for Frank to go and I think he's made steps towards a brighter future with his staff changes. He's got exciting coordinators in there that should keep kids interested and I'm looking forward to see where this all goes. I want Frank to fill that trophy case before he leaves. The hokies owe that much to him and the legacy he's created.
Go Hokies! Beat the 'hooligans!
Good summary of the opposing viewpoint. I think anyone that argues that Frank isn't coaching or isn't relatable didn't see the All-Access show this past summer. Working with the punters on their form and technique, while cracking jokes speaks a lot (to me) about not only his attention to detail but who he is as a person. That specific segment was relatively short, but illuminating, I think.
I thorougly enjoyed that segment and agree it does show how Frank runs things in a different light. I generally try to watch or listen to everything Frank says during his press conferences or public appearances.
Stopped reading.
London getting recruits has never had any bearing on our team success.
Really so players don't matter it's all coaching? Living in the 757 and being somewhat knowledgeable about talent here it's okay for LOLUVA to get kids we use to get? I'm perplexed by that. Just my$.02.
I grew up in the 757 and have brothers and cousins who play or have played. So, not sure where you're going with that.
Who cares who the Hoos get? They're not winning. Anything. Games aren't won or lost in the Rivals rankings.
Live in the 757, son played in the 757 as well, not saying LOLUVA IS winning with these kids just lucky some dumb ass cop from Richmond is their coach. I don't care who they get if a kid doesn't want to be a hokie then screw him. All I said in MHO is that some of these kids would make us better, if you can't see that then so be it. If they signed with us you be all about them as I would. Just spitting talent. Can't continue to ignore that in my opinion.
I don't think this is a good welcoming attitude to have for recruits. It creates an attitude that we don't need recruits. It creates an air that we only want people who grew up wanting to be Hokies. I think if we do that we lose out on some guys coming in who are really really great looking (don't tell me Andrew Ford grew up in Pennsylvania dreaming his entire life of wearing orange and maroon).
Only saying if we recruit him and they decide to go in another direction the they are on their own. VT doesn't peruse kids who have committed to another team. According to HFBCFB from his late set BIO.
Yeah but could you image how great we could be with the same level of recruiting as the hoos. I mean every time we get a 5*...he's like our best player in history. (See MV5, TT5, fullerno.4)
247 sports has uva ranked 48 in the country in recruiting. We are 27 spots higher at 21. I would say I prefer our recruiting to theirs.
Not gonna downvote because you are expressing you're opinion but I strongly disagree with you on almost everything you said.
Let it be known I did not downvote you either
horrible play calling by he offensive staff and bad O-line play brought on by bad play calling
Good coaches don't make excuses. They put the best players they have on the field and put them in position to succeed. Do you really think MD's offense was more talented than Bud's defense? No, but their OC called a great game, putting their QB in position to beat us by using our aggressive style against us. Do you think their D had more talent than our O (debatable, but think we had more)? How many times did we forget we have a 6-6 260# QB in short yardage? Forget we had a running game for 20 min of game clock? Forget to roll out Logan or call a bootleg to play against their aggression?
I don't think you can blame OL talent. When this same line blocked Bama and Miami very well. I think we called plays more like duke and BC (putting our OL in position to fail) vs Miami (putting the, in quick hitting, shorter blocks).
my man I fully agree
Miami has beat noone. Alabama game we were down alot early... anything we did has to be viewed in the context of a game that never got within reach.
How many ypc did we get in the Alabama game? Excepting the one TD run? This in a game where we were behind and they were probably giving us whatever we wanted on the ground. Yet we point to that game like its a badge of honor for our team. Ain't no NFL scouts going to be drafting our boys on the basis of their performance this year. In any of the games.
Who pointed at that game like it was a badge of honor? I think everyone said after that they weren't too upset with the loss, but I didn't hear anyone claiming it was a moral victory or anything.
I'm pretty sure Logan will get drafted (his measurables are just too good to pass up on), Jack Tyler may get drafted, if Kyle Fuller can shake off the injury bug he may be drafted as well. James Gayle and Derrick Hopkins also could be drafted.
I don't think we can judge leadership unless we are in the locker room IMO. The only thing we have to go off of is how the players themselves speak about the team leadership and of course none of them are going to call out anybody in the middle of the season. Although all the players seem very adamant about LTs leadership. But again, I think it's hard to say from the outside looking in.
I would definitely say it seems like Logan is a leader on the team. But is that it? Which players are on the sidelines trying to get the rest of the team fired up? I'll admit, I don't know, I haven't seen any of that happening, but I also have to watch on TV and it rarely shows the sideline.
But I do think the best teams have more than one leader, and those leaders are on the sidelines, pumping up their teammates, encouraging them, and holding them accountable. I don't necessarily think we have that this year.
I don't thing it's a lack of leadership with the players per se but maybe a lack of attention to detail in preparation on offense and special teams. I think that starts with (or at least implicates) the big whistle.
The defense always comes out pretty sharp but can't be expected to be perfect all the time.
The offense usually comes out sloppy. I think years of inattention to detail and over-reliance on the athleticism of one or two key players created a culture that didn't demand perfection on that side of the ball. And I definitely think there's a lack of talent on that side of the ball that is being exposed as (hopefully) a new culture of perfection on offense is being created.
Special teams have also cost us plenty this year and if not for some help from the canes last week (on special teams), that score would have been much different. A lot of young players are starting so attention to detail and talent are likely culprits here as well.
This game showed (yet again) that unless the current Hokie team has either a perfect day on the field or receives help (turnovers, bad calls, etc...), it's going to have a tough time beating a determined opponent. You hear the coaches say all the time that if VT doesn't turn the ball over then they win. Well, today that wasn't accurate.
I also find myself wondering about some of the play calls and personnel selections. Both seem ill-fitting at times. I'm just not sure how else to phrase that.
Turkey leg for you- I think that's a fair assessment. I just wonder if more veteran leadership would help get these young guys to show attention to detail and sharpness. I don't know if it's true or not, but I just wonder about it.
I'm not saying everyone hasn't been, but I know we are all fired up so let's try and keep it civil. I am ignoring any comments throwing coaches/ players under the bus. I hope you do the same and give it a few days to calm down. But let's try and talk some rational football...
1) Special teams: go watch the Miami game again. We were terrible on coverage, but got lucky with the fumbles. I saw no improvement today. AJ can be great, but you have to tackle at the other end.
2) Defense: I miss Kyle. That game had his name written all over it (GT anyone?). But I will give props to their QB. He is slippery. If he didn't slip out and we tackled a little better there would have been more sacks than Pitt. Should we have put in a QB spy earlier? Maybe? But I'll trust Bud's game plan. As much as we all love our D there has been some games where we get mashed. This was one of them.
3) Offence: Logan haters? Never mind. I'm not going there. I thought he played fairly well. The line has been up and down all year. This was a down, but think back to your expectations preseason. I would still say they have surpassed my expectations. Wang got beat on several plays. The RB rotation. I can not explain. Trey is the guy. JC on 3ed and short I can not explain.
I agree, the defense has missed Kyle on the field. Great football player..the MD QB doesn't get allot of that yardage with Kyle out there. Not saying we still win but Kyle helps play the coverages Bud wants out there.
I have no problem if you say we win with Kyle. I think if Kyle is out there at 100%, we do not lose this game.
Yup, he would have made a ton of plays.
If for no other reason than it allows Kendall to play nickel and keeps Bonner from playing man coverage.
I thought Logan played ok as well, or at least from what I could see between screen freezes on ESPN3 and commercial breaks that spanned entire drives. Two punts in a row? You're on ESPN3, you can see that!
But there was one play in particular where I was very frustrated with Logan, and it brought into specific relief what occasionally frustrates me about him. In OT, on second down near the goal line, protection broke down and Logan escaped to the top of the screen. He looked in front of him and three MD defenders came at him, leaving Byrn open by 15 yards in the end zone. Logan kept trucking. He was still behind the LOS. His eyes didn't go back downfield. The ball was tucked and it wasn't going anywhere.
As nuts as I went when this happened, I realized that he's probably been put in a position to run so often that when it comes time to tuck and run, he's committed. This doesn't make me love the guy any less. Just puts in perspective where we are right now.
I saw the same thing. I'll play devils advocate and say his momentum was carrying him across the line, he committed to running (maybe a little early, yes), but that goes back to the protection broke. Maybe he could have hit Willy if he didn't have to scramble.
AJ had some really bad punts today, including the one that was returned for a TD. No hang time. He did have a couple of NFL level punts as well. Definitely a mixed bag today.
Keep calm and beat UVA.
Agree the only salvation, let's go play in the effing sun bowl.
I also wonder if not only us as fans, but the team itself got a little caught up in the emotions and excitement after the Miami game. Perhaps they too got caught looking ahead to the championship game?
I don't want to think it's true given how other games this season have gone (Duke, BC), but what do you all think?
Duke and BC we were all caught up in the excitement and emotions of Beating Miami and making a case for ourselves to be national champions. Or at least that's how it felt on this board. There was no focus on Duke. Everyone kind of acted like it would be a cupcake win. BC was always destined to be a trap game.
Also, HD picked us to win today, so that didn't help. The infamous Kiss of Death
So frustrated by this loss, but I was very impressed with that crazy across the field pass Logan had to Willie. That was a big time throw that is an interception for most quarterbacks.
This is on the coaches. Straight up.
Any evidence or explanation to support that theory?
Yep. The other team won :)
I was hoping maybe for a little more...
Sorry for double post but this seems to be the more active thread and wanted to see if you guys agree or disagree:
I just don't get us. I can't say what it is that makes us so inconsistent because it doesn't appear the players aren't playing hard. Everyone looks like they are trying their hardest so it's just difficult to take in these losses.
As for today though, I thought the play calling was poor. It just never felt like Loeffler got a sense for the game's situation. He had Miami almost perfect which is why the offense had such a rhythmic flow to it. For instance, I still don't understand why we run stretch plays or any runs to the outside when we need less than 3 yards. I also don't get why J.C. is in if we actually do run up the middle on those short plays. And why does Loeffler never go for a strike after a turnover? It's somewhat of a rule that after a turnover and momentum swing, you go deep or do something to catch the defense off guard. I realize you can't do it every time, but most coordinators apply that 50 to 75 percent (total guess just based on my gut feeling over the course of all the football games I've seen) of their play calling after a turnover. It wasn't so much that the plays weren't good, but that the timing of them was off and that they didn't fit the situation we were in.
And Bud didn't have his best game either. Thought it was a combination of no quarterback spy, too much man coverage, and too much blitzing. I think a quarterback spy with man coverage would have worked. I think zone coverage with only pressure from the line or one person blitzing would have worked.
Not having Kyle is really hurting us. He really makes the defense elite.
FIRE BEAMER HIRE KIFFIN
Now this, is a reasoned, well-thought-out, clear, and concise statement. Very convincing.
At least then we get to see Mrs. Kiffin. Groooowl!
I thought Logan was going to become head coach next year.
#LEALFORHEADCOACH
Humor is the spice of life.
Leadership starts at the top. Until the Big Kahuna decides he wants to beat the shit out of other teams by scoring more points we're going to get slow-ass hand offs that everyone and his grandmother can defend. And with that, we will be like a mouse on his wheel.
I found that most complaints with the plays we're running has been the lack of running the ball... so I'm not sure where you're coming from with this.
I'm not talking about the lack of running plays. It's more I'd prefer straight ahead blocking while hitting the hole as quickly as possible. Mix it up with traps, sweeps whatever. Just don't like that read option that seems to have both Logan and the back stalled in a huddle with each other.
I think the reason we're using the read option so much is to slow down the pass rush/blitz. If you watched the game today, our line was getting blown up play after play. Having two players who could keep the ball instead of one in theory should help put the defense back on its heels a little bit, so they aren't just firing off the ball and blowing up plays in the backfield.
except that doesn't work when the unblocked defender gets to the mesh point the same time as the RB. or the LB can diagnose where the hole is opening before our QB. Or the safety can fill the gap on the edge before our RB even gets the handoff.
The important thing to remember is that bourbon is just as good off the rocks, there's still more football to play, and strip joints stay open late. I feel better already.
Where is a strip joint worth going to in Blacksburg?
not everyone on here lives in/near Blacksburg...
That sucks.
displaced Hokie here: yup.
You gotta go to WV. Beckley. Southern exposure is there. Hoop tie ride makes runs.
Princeton is much closer, only about 45 minutes from VT.
Is there a southern X there? I remember the original. Always drove by it, had to turn around. Was like a modified trailer.
Much better than Juicie's exotic cabaret in Christiansburg. That place was a joke...
I see what you're saying, but it's that theory that's getting after us. Defenses have Aced it.
Unless you're an insider, you can't give a firm answer. If you're not at practice, or in the locker room, then you just don't know. However, there was a former D3 player at our tailgate who said lack of leadership was an obvious issue. Not sure how he arrived at that conclusion, but fair or unfair, a lot of folks are arriving at this conclusion. Considering how long these seniors have been a core of this team, especially on defense, I'm shocked leadership would be an issue.
It's purely a guess based on an outsider looking in, but I just don't see any of the seniors holding the other players accountable, or trying to get them pumped up, or helping them fix mistakes. I know the coaches are there with them on the sidelines, but I feel like it also makes a difference to these young guys when it's the older players who are helping them, and holding them to a high standard.
I could be completely wrong, and I hope I am, but I just don't see it.
I would think that with the new coaches/scheme, everyone is at the same stage of development on offense. It has to be more difficult for veteran players to coach up the younger guys when they both have the same amount of time in the system.
And not to charge down a rabbit hole but I would think that leadership on a football team is a chicken/egg debate. Good leadership tends to lead by example. On the field that means making plays. During the week it means running practice. So it's gotta be difficult to develop leadership without talent and time in the system.
I think your point about the system might be the key to unlocking our confusion here. as far as getting things along in this system, everyone is essentially a true freshman.
I agree, there is a lack of leadership. I think it's mostly due to this team being young but also due to all the injuries to key players..