As national letters of intent roll in, please use this thread to ask questions about the newest generation of Hokies. I will discuss their film, technique, skill set, and how I anticipate they will fit into the Hokies scheme.
Note- this isn't a thread for the recruiting process and any misses. This is only to discuss signees.
I will start taking questions once the first NLIs role in.
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Comments
First Guy in is an OL, Hopple, what does he look like in terms of impact in his time at Tech? I know not to expect anything in his first year.
I don't know that there are many immediate contributors in the class. The Hokies have some OT depth with Nijman, McLaughlin, Moore, and Osterloh can swing outside if needed. I have heard a lot of buzz about DeAndre Plantin, who had the best feet of any lineman in last year's class. That will allow Hopple a year of development.
Hopple long term will likely move inside. He has some strength in his upper body and has good bend to get under defenders. However, he has a big red flag that long time readers know ALWAYS concerns me. At contact, he has a tendency for his feet to stop. He then plants and tries to bench press the defender into the ground. You can get away with it against immobile defenders. Against guys who can move, you need your feet to stay active in order to stay engaged with your block. His feet are pretty marginal anyway.
A comparison would be to TJ Jackson. Hopple will likely be more competitive in practice initially because of his strength, experience, and compete level. Jackson though, despite limited experience and technique, has tremendous feet. Long term, he can develop into a good player with serious strength and technique training. Hopple is a safer bet, but has a more limited upside. I expect he will move to guard after his redshirt year.
First note- Zach Hoyt was listed on Fuente's big board as a signed player who is on campus already. Nine players including Hoyt in this class are already on campus working with the team (Jarod Evans, Eric Kumah, Divine Deablo, Demetri Moore, Josh Jackson, Sam Denmark, Jimmie Taylor, and Khalil Ladler.) I will take questions on them as well.
Per Will at TSL, Hoyt is being counted as a 2015 recruit.
TJ Hopple is now official. He is an offensive tackle recruit from the 757.
How do you think our O-Line will look with some of these new guys coming in compared to what it's been since 2011?
Moore is the one player who can make an immediate impact. He has the size, really good feet, and great extension. The rest of this class are project guys who need to be developed.
Other than Moore, I am actually pretty comfortable with depth. Moore, Osterloh, and Plantin (I was very high on him last spring and have heard nothing but good things about his development) give them tackle depth. Osterloh (who I think may get a chance to challenge Conte under Fuente), Chung, Smith, and Pfaff are serviceable guys guard to guard. I'd like to see one guy step up at the guard spot, as Chung and Smith are centers first.
Do you see TJ Jackson making an impact within 2 years?
I think what French keeps alluding to, and I agree, is that we have some guys on roster that are already developing very well. D'Andre Plantin has been getting great reviews. I guess it depends on what you mean by contribute, but Nijman and Plantin could very well be our starting tackles in 2 years. If Jackson pushes, that would mean he has developed very fast. I think it may take a little longer, but I'll defer to French
Do you ever get that not so fresh feeling?
I am in green football pjs driving Susie to work sans shower. I feel rough and unshowered.
Just a cloud of swamp ass and nut fog.
Saw where Patterson is in. What about these new receivers. They are tall in general. How do you see them in Fuente's system? That might touch on how well the QB's fit too.
Most of Fuente's pass structure features one QB read and quick dig routes. With Lynch, Memphis also featured lots of back shoulder throws against man coverage (again, one read.) I think Fuente recognized the need for depth and liked the big group of bodies that VT had already targeted. The big kids also hopefully will translate to more YAC in the screen game (and better blocking in front of it.)
I am very high on Eric Kumah. Lots of folks I respect love Deablo. With him, the film makes it tough to get a read because his QB play wasn't terrific.
With Ford's ability to make space and get open deeper (10,15, 20 Yards),do you think Fuente with likely add more deeper passes?
sure, if we have a QB who can reliably get the ball to him downfield. I think that was part of the problem with our offense last season. Brewer was good throwing the ball short-medium but he struggled with the deep ball. Motley had a cannon of an arm but his deep ball accuracy left plenty to be desired. Until we have a QB who can reliably throw the ball deep down field with accuracy we're not going to get a lot out of our deep threat receivers unless there is a complete bust in coverage
To build off of what French said, this is a big reason why NFL teams are wary of Paxton Lynch. Needs to prove that he can go through progressions and make "NFL throws."
I have no worries about Lynch's ability to make NFL throws. But, progressions- those were seemingly non-existent. Either the ball came out quick, it was a double move, or Lynch broke contain and receivers made plays on the scramble drill. Fuente puts a ton of strain on the QB to make the right read in the option game, and simplifies the passing game.
This is very different than Loeffler's system, no?
If I'm scouting Lynch at the combine I'm looking to see that he can make reads, that he can make the deep out throw from the opposite hash consistently, and that his ball location is good.
Like you said, emphasizing the run option simplifies the pass option in Fuente's O. Makes me think Baylor, TCU, Oregon. Quick read, get ball out quick to playmakers. Looking forward to it.
Based on projections and/or who's already signed by the time you get to this, which group is the bigger haul for us: those already on campus early, or those who are just signing today?
The early enrollees. Evans goes without saying. Ladler will be tremendous if healthy. Terrific hips allow him to disguise leverage coverage and then flip to a different look. And I would expect that all three early enrollee receivers will get playing time next season.
Those OL like to get their letters in early.
Sorry folks- had to get in the car. Will restart in 30 minutes.
French,
as you well know LB recruiting has been a sore spot among many of TKP faithful. It has certainly lacked in recent years. But even when we do sign quality guys at that position, they don't "pan out". Do you see that trend moving in a different direction with the guys coming in this year at the LB position?
So much depends on if they can flip Pine here before 10:30. I like Beckett a bunch at the mike spot, if he can grow into it. Carter has prototypical mike size and plays down hill, but isn't very rangy.
The backer recruiting seems to be focused heavily on guys that align on the edge and play a stand up DE (similar to the backer role in the bear front.) Belmar was a DE/stand up DE in HS. Simms, Pine, and Ross all played that same role to varying degrees. I like Belmar a bunch in a Bear front. I have no idea how he would fit in base defense backer alignment.
Also- bold crazy perhaps unfounded prediction time (no inside information-just trying to use some football logic.) If Pine doesn't flip, I wouldn't be shocked if we don't see Houshun Gaines get a look as a backer for Bear alignments. He is similar size-wise to Edmunds, perhaps a little twitchy-er in the pass rush and backside pursuit, and they need depth desperately at backer with only Edmunds and Moss at that spot going into spring.
Where do you see Hewitt fitting? Itll be interesting to see how quick he looks compared with the rest of the DLine.
3 tech in the bear, 3 tech in 40. I like Hewitt allot as long as he gets off the ball and can get extension on D1 blockers. Different body type, but he has a Derrick Hopkins kind of feel for me. Also he reminds me a bit of Jamie Harless (the best D3 DT I ever saw) in terms of how he sheds blocks and finds the football. For those of you who know me personally, that is a high compliment.
Harless is a legend. High praise French. Both #55..
Beckett's size isn't a problem?
It is. I wish Beckett's tackling and ranger were merged with Carter's frame.
Keep in mind- I anticipate some changing roles for the linebackers (including the whip.) The fundamentals will be the same, but, their alignments may change as Bud continues to modify his Bear philosophy. When folks talk about Shegog "moving to backer," I think it means we will see him aligned inside in the Bear, much like Jarrett did, while the backer stays on the field and moves to the field-edge/boundary edge. While Shegog will be inside, he won't be asked to fit. He will be playing a free hitter role, which is also ideally suited for Beckett.
I really wish Belmar could have enrolled early. I like his game. Nice heavy shoulder and twitchy on the end. Good hand placement and extension to squeeze traps and wipe off blocks. He isn't the fastest guy (general theme about almost all the front 7 guys so far in this class besides Hewitt) but he can contribute.
We need linebackers. We have 2 more so far. French, what do you think of them (Belmar and Beckett)?
I see your Belmar comment above, just thought I'd consolidate the question.
Tyree Rodgers, offense or defense? Excellent change of direction and start/stop would be electric in passing game, but translates extremely well to corner as well, but I haven't gotten a look at his hips from the film I've seen, Thoughts?
According to Shakira, hips don't lie.
(Just havin some fun...good question)
I think he is a corner. However, if Wells doesn't sign, Fuente likely wants to find a waterbug slot guy. If not, perhaps Deablo gets a look there.
French, whatever happened to that Connor Odonell kid? I think he was supposed to be a part of last years class. It sounded like the fans believed VT/Shane Beamer had been catfished by a recruit. Did he wind up at a D1 school?
Very good question, I would also like to know what that was all about....
No clue. If someone isn't sending a letter to VT today, I likely haven't spent time following him. I know next to nothing about O'Donnell except that he isn't coming to Blacksburg.
Out of our WRs we have signed, who do you see potentially being able to pull an Isaiah Ford and start immediately?
Literally nobody because that would mean they beat out either Ford or Phillips for their starting spot.
I'm pretty sure that there's plenty of room for a third wideout in most of Fuente's scheme, without considering the TE's/H-backs.
Not saying nobody from this class will get playing time, and some may even get extensive playing time. But none of the freshman are going to start at either one of the two "starting" positions for wide receiver.
I was more stating that Fuente uses his receivers a lot, thus not just ford and Phillips are going to get playing time. We will def go three wide at times and I'm wondering if any of these guys can come in and make an immediate impact. Plus cam was less than stellar this year, so if one of these guys can push him for playing time, that wouldn't be a bad thing
In terms of getting on the field (not starting over Ford, Phillips, and Hodges), it depends on how much Fuente is planning on rotating. I think Deablo could have an immediate impact on the screen game, so, while he is much bigger than what we traditionally think of as a slot receiver, his quickness and power gives them YAC on those quick screens. Fuente LOVES the WR screen game that functions similarly to a running play (goals is to get 4-6 and set up a positive down and distance.) Kumah is a little more polished as a route runner and can also help inside if called upon. I am still reviewing Denmark and Patterson.
Sam Denmark- needs to add some strength to his frame. He is a ball hawk. He does a good job of high pointing the football and transitioning into a running posture quickly. After the catch, Denmark has great speed, is very elusive, and has some power. He needs to improve significantly as a route runner. His highlights feature some pretty weak cuts that would be very easy for a DI corner to read and jump, and I didn't like him doing the full spin out of the fake curl and go. I appreciate the athleticism to do it, but that takes more time for the route to develop and causes him to slow down. If the corner doesn't bite completely on the route, that gives the corner more time to recover. You want to see a more subtle fake (see Isaiah Ford vs UVA) where the receiver can get the corner to bite without losing his own momentum on the route.
Eron Carter in the house. That's good.
Big frame. Very physical. He fits really well and sheds blocks to find the football. He looks like a linebacker. My concern with Carter is that he isn't super quick in pursuit. That isn't a vital need at the position in the run game (the backer either fits the first gap playside on zone, or cross keys the QB on zone read) and doesn't need to move far. But, it could be an issue in coverage, and it is difficult to determine from his film how athletic he is tackling in space.
I think he is a safe, big, physical guy who Bud can develop and smarten up to the position while Motuapuaka and Lydon fight for a starting spot.
What's the chances that he moves to DE? Seems to have the size (or close to) that Bud likes at that position. If he has enough speed for ILB, then possibly enough for DE.
Like I said, I don't know if the backer is going to be "an INSIDE linebacker" anymore. Instead, Edmunds, Belmar, and targets like Simms, Ross, and Pine are all guys who seem to be much more comfortable playing like a hybrid DE-LB out on the edge.
With only two scholarship bodies at backer for spring ball, not only do I think Belmar stays there. I could envision a world where Gaines maybe gets a look if the need is there.
Reggie Floyd is a commit that nobody has really talked about. He's listed as an athlete on ESPN. I'm assuming he'll end up at DB. If he does end up as a DB, where do you see him playing in the defensive backfield? What's a good player comparison?
I think he will be a rover. I have some concerns about his range and instincts reading the play and coming up aggressively in the alley. But, he is a big, physical kid. When he gets there, he brings a thump. I think he could contribute on special teams right away.
No interest in Floyd at RB?
(I'm still quite concerned about RB.)
Eh- he could be, but I don't think that would be his best position.
Tough day. If you want this to get better, open up those checkbooks. Everything starts with resources.
Agreed. Supporting the program is crucial. But I see that we are heading in that direction with more recruiting support positions, the indoor facility, renovations at Merryman, etc. I just feel like these improvements and innovations are coming 4-5 years late. It will take us time to dig out of the hole and reestablish the brand.
I'm sure it's a disappointing day for those hoping we'd get some more flips/commits than expected, but I'm pretty hyped for the actual Hokies that came on board. The future is still brighter than it seemed to be a few months ago.
Couldn't agree more, we all love to piss and moan on the message boards but only a fraction open their wallets for the program.
Its always a tough day for VT on signing day, we hardly ever get pleasant surprises and always seem to have several key misses or flips.
French. Are there any more potential exciting recruits left to sign/flip? I don't like the taste today has left in my mouth so far
Durr is the only one left, I think he was leaning Minnesota though. Clay Dean is only remaining commit not to sign yet
Coney Durr. Very physical- but he plays a safeties game in a corner's body. Imagine Mook Reynolds, but minus any film showing how he covers man to man against a decent passing game. I like him, but outside of his willingness to tackle and solid tackling technique, it is difficult to get a feel for his upside.
I really like Kumah and Deablo.
Care to elaborate on this a little more, or point me where you have previously?
My apologies. Kumah is a very polished receiver. He has the ball skills to win 50 50 battles. He is a relatively polished route runner compared to most HS receivers (not quite where Cam Phillips and Isaiah Ford were, but close.) He has good size and can grow. I don't know if he will get as big as Jarrett Boykin, but I could see him becoming a taller version of Josh Morgan. He is patient on screens and lets his blocking develop before getting up field.
Deablo probably has a little more physical upside. He has a wider frame and could probably carry more weight than Kumah. He is an animal in the air. In the Memphis system, I could see Deablo playing as a big slot receiver who can run the outside fade (remember Cam Worthy at ECU) and also be featured in the outside zone jet sweep series. I know Wiggins mentioned his route running. I thought that actually is probably an area for improvement. He looked nice on posts and go routes. I would have liked to have seen how well he can read a defender and stick route off the defender's leverage more. Those stick routes are major components of the Fuente offense, especially on the inside (more reasons why I think Bucky may play even more on the outside this season.) For those that follow Tennesse, Deablo reminds me of Von Pearson and Cordarrelle Patterson in terms of his YAC, body type, and ball skills.
How big are his hands? Boykin never quite grew into his hands...
I saw Tabor play a lot this year. The whole offense was designed around getting Deablo the ball in space. There's not a whole lot of highlight catches because of their QB's arm strength (lack thereof), but he is a total package. He attacks the ball in the air (he won EVERY jump ball), and he's excellent after the catch. Tabor even had him returning punts, hell he may have even punted a few times... he seemed to always be on the field near the ball.
Sam approves!
Awesome breakdown, thanks French! I'm glad to hear that we are getting WR's that can excel at the screen game and YAC as it seems those are both imperative in Fuente's system.
I'm also excited that we're getting WRs who played WR in high school instead of converting RB/QBs.
THat's what I tell people complaining about this class. Look back at that 2011 class 0 QB, 1 OL, 1 WR. This class fills a lot of holes, maybe not with as many or as highly ranked as we would like, but it is an okay class for Fuente's first year
French, what are your thoughts on Jimmie Taylor? Early enrollee and he looks big (Wiles said he's up to 225 right now). Looks like he will be competing with the RS Fr from last year for the two deep.
I wish I had his senior film to watch. Junior year he played more inside. He looks like a physical guy. Nice wingspan. I don't think he is as twitchy as some of the past recruits, yet given how much the DE's slid inside in the Bear last season, having a guy who may not be as twitchy but is gap sound and plays heavier in the gap is an asset. I think he can be a contributor. I like him more than I did Fullwood last season, and as I mentioned above, Gaines is more suited to that stand up edge role rather than being a DE who has to sometimes slide inside to a 3 tech in the bear.
One thing about Taylor and the DE targets late (Bailey and Fox), all three were heavier guys that won with physicality rather than burning and bending around the edge.
Many folks have forgotten about Trevon Hill as well. If healthy, I think he is going to be a huge difference maker.
Thanks. Wiles mentioned that he thinks he can get up to 250 and seemed pretty excited saying that we beat out some big schools for him. Wiles did mention his twitch as a positive FWIW.
With Taylor, I see twitch kind of like Hewitt. He can bend his body to thwart blocking angles and get leverage. In the past, Wiles would use twitch to describe his DEs as guys who had terrific speed off the snap and then could bend their bodies flat down the line to make plays. I don't see that in Taylor- at least not in his junior film.
As I hinted above... I think we are seeing some changes in defensive philosophy. We will know more when we see how Edmunds and Gaines are used this spring and we see who the Hokies really focus on early in the 17 recruiting process.
Thanks for the explanation. Given how Bud continues to "tweak" the D it's not surprising that there may be a change. I'll be interested to see if it does change as you think it might.
Also, Bud just said that Belmar might grow into a DE.
yep- noticed that. it could happen... but they only have two scholarship backers and no viable walk on backers that I can name. Necessity!
Have you had a chance to evaluate Tre Hubbard? I know he's a walk-on but I'm wondering if it's because of his size, that he needs to develop, or that he was overlooked.
Not in any depth. I will discuss him in the following weeks.
Giggidy. Looking forward to it.
Beckett brings the attitude. Love his film. So much will hinge on his size and reach and how that contributes to him fitting and then defeating blocks.
If it was 2006, Beckett would be a whip and a good one. He has a ton of Cody Grimm in his game.
Lot of attitude on D side of the class. Beckett definitely, but Hewitt, Carter, Ladler, Rodgers all guys who look like they play with a healthy dose of mean.
Not saying it makes up for some of the misses today, but the LAST thing this defense needs is docile, bashful players. Feel like a Dude, you're more likely to play like a Dude.
I hope Trevon Hill will be duding it up. I really hope he can be a difference maker.
With his injury is that realistic for this year? Seems like a long time since he has been able to have contact
I am hopeful.
He was my favorite player in last year's class. His injury really got lost in the huge expectations on our starting front four. And then, for a bunch of reasons, they didn't play well.
In all honesty, the hype on our DLine last year overshadowed what could be a sneaky good '15 group. Like I said, I love Trevon Hill, but the same class has Gaines, Settle, Dee Fullwood, Harry Lewis.
So I'd like to extend the Become A Dude invitation to that whole group.
Bud just compared Belmar to Nekos Brown. That is a really good comparison.
Does that mean Belmar is making a move from LB to End?
That would be fine with me. The move AND the comparison.
If you could compare this year's class to one of our previous classes, as far as talent and potential # of contributors, which would you choose?
French, with the additions of Belmar and Eron Carter, what is your overall take on our Linebackers? Moto struggled at times and Deon Clarke gave up on plays. Do you think Moto polishes his game? Is Tremaine ready for the backer role? In all the player that we have as LBs (Minor, Moss, etc), do you see anyone stepping up their game?
I still think they desperately needed more depth at the backer spot. I really think that Lydon is going to be a special player at that spot, and I am hopeful that Motu can translate the good qualities I saw in his HS film into being more physical at the point of attack, being more instinctive, and having a heavy shoulder.
Right now the backer spot is Edmunds (a guy who looked comfortable in the Bear, and incredibly uncomfortable in the base alignment against Tulsa) and a guy in Moss who I don't recall was highly recruited and has not been able to get on the field. To me, that was a worrisome spot. I like Belmar, but with attrition and injury, they needed 3 Belmars and didn't get them.
You like Lydon at Backer? Motu at Mike, Lydon at Backer, Edmunds3 at Stud.
then you make a position of weakness even weaker depth wise. I think we will be fine at DE. I expect big things from Hill and Gaines.
Ladler- flips his hips. Remember that phrase, because I will be using it a bunch when he gets on the field. He shows inside leverage and then can flip his hips and jump a slant route for an interceptions. He has a lot of Jayron Hosley in him at first glance, and is already physically better developed at the same age.
The importance of hip fluidity should be more common knowledge amongst football fans, separates the wheat from the chaff. Also having quick feet when the receiver crosses your face inside. Brandon Flowers is an excellent example of someone who rarely got burned despite not having elite speed because he had tremendous hip fluidity and technique.
edit: admittedly, Brandon Flowers is my favorite VT corner.
Flowers was my favorite player at VT, so I hesitate to draw comparisons to him. Ladler has similar ability in terms of his technique. While Ladler lays some licks on film, I would be hard pressed to compare anyone to Flowers in terms of his physicality. He was truly a special player at VT and should get more attention. In this area, I hear about DeAngelo Hall all the time. You give me 11 Brandon Flowers vs 11 DHalls, and I will win every time.
I think my wording was slightly unclear. I was giving BF as an example of great hips as opposed to a similarity comparison between he and Ladler. I actually haven't watched film on Ladler yet.
I also totally agree that Flowers was an extremely unique talent and we may never see a guy like him again. He may not get the attention he deserves, but Gray and Bud Foster have both said he was the best corner they've ever coached.
I was agreeing while not trying to devalue Flowers. Sorry.
No worries, I was trying to do the same. I love Flowers, didn't want you to think I was comparing him to a hs kid.
Great quote from Bud, via Andy Bitter:
This might be considered a strange question; do you think Jarrod Hewitt could play as some type of linebacker (say against Pitt, Wisconsin type teams, or on certain downs and distances)? Kids got a motor and instincts imo.
There is a better chance of me playing linebacker. He is a defensive tackle. 3 tech, 1 tech... MAYBE could play a 5 tech if Bud runs any true 3-4
So you're saying there's a chance you miiiiiight be suiting up? Hey, enjoyed your comments today.
I doubt old, fat, slow, and dumb are high end elements in the making of a Bud Foster linebacker. I am awesome at Jeopardy though.
"I wasn't big, but I made up for it by being slow." --Frank Beamer
I remember a TV guy saying Druckenmiller had "deceptive speed. He is slower than he looks."
My HS coach once called me "deceptively slow". Finally I understand what he meant.
Hey, back in my playing days as a center, I ran a true 4.3 40......I thought 4.3 minutes was a good time.
Any centers in this group of OL recruits?
Zach Hoyt
I don't know what the hell is going on but is Torrian Gray going to Florida !?!?!?
Wtf
French, with this new class of recruits coming in what do you think of Team Pie's chances of getting the final, lasting victory over Team Cake?
Team Pie always wins.