Only four games in, but thats all we have right now. What do you guys think? Ive been thinking about this and I dont know what the right answer is, and I may be way off, but I am going to say 2005. The Tyrod years were great, but that team had its struggles. I dont think we had the talent on offense that we have right now, and the defense not quite as strong. We had some good defenses during that time, but IMO this is the best defense we have had since the Adibi and Hall years.
Our play has been impressive this year. We have a playmaker at QB, our best #1 receiver we've had in a long while, ground game has been there and a defense that is playing with confidence and trust in what they are doing. Not to mention the whole new offensive system that is humming along. Evans, Ford, Bucky, Sam and Phillips is an interesting bunch. I bet you in the back of Fuente's mind he has known all along that he has got something to work with and this was no rebuilding year.
I think we could have won the ACC title the 4 years we won it with this current team, and possibly been more succesful overall. (I know we didnt win in '05, but that was supposed to be our year and we laid 2 eggs at the worst time.)
Comments
4 games in, I can't yet say that this team is better than the 2010 Hokies.
Especially since our first two games that year were cancelled.
This. Way too early to tell. We are 3-1 and lost to a very overrated UTjr team. Having said that this is the best this offense has looked in I can't remember how long.
Not sure UT is overrated. We'll see at the end of the season, but right now, they are making us look better, and they have definitely turned the page themselves. I think they play down to their opponents, which is why they are coming from behind. We punched them in the mouth that first quarter, and they woke up.
This. I'm pulling for UT the rest of the season.
*ducks*
Hear me out... the more they win the better we look. Any person who understands football knows that we should have played them better @ Bristol. We only benefit from their winning.
Still don't think they "woke up." We handed it to them by fumbling 5 times in awful field position.
They still had the offense rolling after the first quarter. There is a little bit of revisionist history going on on a lot of Hokies parts. We also sucked ass on offense for a good part of the game. Winning isn't a guarantee of we fumble less, it would just be closer.
There's definitely some revisionist history going on, but I am pretty sure they only had one drive that resulted in points that didn't start on our side of the field. Their offense wasn't really rolling so much as it was landing in scoring positions and capitalizing. two of those fumbles were inside our five. Often they scored after the defense was put right back on the field after a defensive stop as well. No guarantee we win that game, but without all the self-inflicted wounds we would have been in great position to do so.
Two drives from their side and one from half field. And just because their offense didn't have to travel as far, doesn't mean that it couldnt.
Our defense looked pretty good outside of a few busts, and were often put RIGHT back on the field after getting off. They also backheeled a punt (free ball, that of course, we didn't land on) that might as well have been another turnover because it was like a net 7 yard punt. The defense played well once they calmed back down but the turnovers kept happening. I'm not even sure what you're arguing now, I think it's foolish to say "We DEFINITELY would have won" but I also think the way you think their offense would have just started rolling on us without the momentum swings is a little foolish as well. It's a meaningless thing to argue, but the one thing we can all be sure of is that the story of the game was our five turnovers. We can play what-if scenarios all day long, but there is no one aspect of that game more significant than our turnovers and the horrendous punt, and that's something we all watched and experienced as it drastically swung the game out of our favor.
I don't read it as people saying the points don't count. If a team starts it's drive on its own 20, the probability of scoring a TD are .15. If they start at their opponents 20 the probability is .50. If 3 drives after turnovers had an average starting field position of the VT 20, then they got over 3X as many points from those drives as if they'd had to start at their own 20. Seems like that makes a huge difference in a 17 point game.
Edit:
Not to mention the obvious momentum shift that they got from the 1st turnover.
3 of the fumbles were forced by our own team, the closest UT player was almost 5 yards away on all 3 of those. We had a punt that was basically a turnover and was not forced by UT. And losing all 5 fumbles is about as unlucky as a team can get. They basically scored 21 points on our defense, and 24 when they got the ball already in scoring range. Hell, on one of the possessions we even managed to prevent them from scoring entirely!
It's all opinion of course. UTjr has not looked good in a single game I've watched. Struggling with app state (good team), us handing them the game, only beating ohio by 9 and then having to come from behind against a florida team who hasn't had a good offense and was on their 3rd string QB. They aren't a top 10ish team. They are probably in that 20-25 range IMO.
I still won't believe the hype until we beat UNC and beat them convincingly. We've got a good thing going, but I want a win against an opponent that isn't in the FCS, the worst team in the ACC, or ECU, who we should dominate every year since they've only been ranked in the top 25 for like 4 weeks after the 2008 season.
ahem 2nd worst team in the ACC unless they recently kicked UVA out?
You're right. I would edit it, but you'll continue to get legs if I don't.
We only have 3 wins, so right now we're just barely better than the 1992 team
^^^^^ THIS!!!
We have 3 wins, 0 upsets, but all the hope in the world. Lets just enjoy the ride for now
As a cautionary tale I'll bring up 2003. We did some fantastic things early in the year including beating the stuffing out of creampuffs like JMU as well as throttling aTm. Then we dropped a game we should've won in Morgantown. Upending #2 Miami the next week should have righted the ship but instead was an oasis in a sea of sub-par performances. We edged out Temple due to a missed XP in OT and lost to LOLUVA for Pete's sake. Long story short I won't evaluate the significance of our hot start until we have a MUCH larger sample size.
The worst part is when you look at the talent we had at the time, it's hard to say this team is anywhere near that '03 team. Randall at QB, Jones at TB, D-Hall Eric Green,and Michael Crawford in the defensive backfield, and lines on both sides of the ball loaded with all Big East caliber talent.
There's some revisionist history going on in this post. Yes, the 2003 season started with promise and ended with disappointment. But that was a thing for this program at that time. In 2001, we started 6-0, then lost 3 of our last 5. In 2002, we dropped 4 of 5 to close the season after starting out winning 8 straight. So if you're going to use 2003 as an example, it's most correctly used as an example of a trend in our program during the immediate post-Vick era to suffer what at the time I referred to as our annual "November meltdown." Any trend from the early 2000s will have minimal bearing at best on play in 2016, especially since we have changed coaches since then.
As for talent, you seem awfully quick to embrace 2003's talent over this current squad. Yes, Kevin Jones was legendary and have no RB approximating his talent on this squad. We do, however, have the best WR we have ever had at VT in Isaiah Ford, so I'll counter a legend with a legend.
Randall in 2003 was not Randall from 2004, and he failed to gain any separation from a freshman Marcus Vick. Had Marcus not been suspended the next season, he would have been our starter in 2004. This far, Jerod Evans is operating at a much higher level than Randall did even in 2004. Comparing Randall's first four games in 2003 to Evans' first four games this season, preferring Randall over Evans seems like taking Trent Dilfer over Steve Young to me.
And while theres no doubt that our DBs were top notch in 2003, the defense as a whole suffered it's worst season under Bud that year. It was the reason we transitioned from a 4-4 to a 4-3, converting the rover from a linebacker to a second safety. We have subsequently transitioned from a 4-3 to a nickel, and I would vastly prefer Bud's modern scheme to its 4-4 counterpart.
The thing about the immediate post Vick era was that the prevailing attitude was that if they couldn't go undefeated and go to the MNC game, why even try? Once those teams lost that first game or two, it was over.
Man, those were frustrating years. We would win all of our big OOC (LSU, Marshall with Byron Leftwich, Texas A&M) games and fall apart against Syracuse, Pitt, & BC. That 2003 team just absolutely quit after the Pitt loss following the big Miami win. As bad as the past few years have been, we always circled the wagons and managed to finish strong. That 2003 team just mailed it in, which is completely embarrassing given the talent we had.
Our offense turned to shit after the opening salvo of that season. WVU crushed us the week before that Miami game, and really, our offense was completely nonexistent during the Miami beatdown. Our defense completely dominated them that night, but we really should have seen that collapse coming.
Just the beginning of the completely inept run of offense we had up until Fuente.
We didn't have a complete team effort once during the last part of that season. Either our offense was shit and the defense was on that day, or we got into some inexplicable shootout and somehow ended up in overtime with Temple. Bud made changes to his defense after that debacle of a season, yet it seems that we doubled down on the offensive ineptitude going forward.
Oh yeah, the defense had some awful performances as well. I think that was the year we got into the inexplicable shootout with Cal in the bowl game, losing 52-49. Also around the time we had some other truly head scratching performances on defense before Bud adjusted prior to that 2004 season. But yeah, it is a shame how bad we allowed the offense to get. We had the pieces there to be so explosive for so long, and we pissed it away.
And 2003 was Bryan Stinespring's most productive offense by far.
There were some locker room problems that year that stretched into the Glennon/Tyrod years before they were nipped. I don't know who was to blame, but the coaches are supposed to handle it. I don't think Newsome or O'Cain or Stinespring cared.
EDIT: original comment corrected. Although, the rest of the season will determine if he will end up with better stats than '04 Randall, but he's certainly on pace.
Edited to reflect your edit.
For the sake of comparison, here's Randall's stat line from 2004:
55.6% completion rate, 2264 yards, 21 TDs, 9 INTs
511 rushing yards, 3.8 YPC, 3 rushing TDs
Here's Evans' production thus far (with projected totals if he sustains this pace over the rest of the regular season in parentheses).
67.0% completion percentage (67.0%), 970 yards (2,910), 13 TDs (39), 1 INT (3)
209 rushing yards (627), 5.2 YPC (5.2), 1 rushing TD (3)
One of these days Evans will have to start playing full games too.
Of course, if he doesn't, that means that good things have been happening a la BC and ECU.
"I'm AXD1985, and I endorse this message."
You may be right. I just remember how high our expectations were after those first 6 games and how low they were after we were thumped by UVA.
The '03 defense had some serious deficiencies at LB and D-line. We couldn't stop anyone from running up the middle on us. Better play in the front 7 (or 8) would have won us the Pitt game at the very least. That was not a great defense outside of the secondary. Hell, I remember people on TSL calling for Bud to be replaced. Not many, but there was a vocal minority (comprised of idiots) who felt that Bud's scheme was outdated and he should be fired. Luckily Bud went with plan B and changed his scheme and shut them the F up.
Those '01-'03 November meltdowns had lasting effects; as late as 2009, we lose one game and folks were still saying "here's VTs annual late season collapse"; that was after back to back ACC championships.
I was like, "that's like, 2003, man."
Ahh the old Maroon Swoon
This is better than the 2012,2014 and 2015 Hokies. Remember we were 6-1 in 2013 with a top 5 defense until we fell apart. It's too early to say otherwise.
so many close games in 2013...if only we had an offense.
I think you have forgotten how good the 2010 Hokies were
I still get sad thinking about what may have happened if those first two games actually turned out to be a dream.
man, assuming we still continue to blow through the acc like we did...there's no way we don't go all the way to the NCG.
Unfortunately we were nowhere near good enough to compete with the big boys. Auburn or Oregon would have crushed us.
Honestly, we would have had a better shot at Auburn. They were like the only team in the last 15 years to not have a top 10 (or 15, I can't remember defense) and win the National Championship. They were like in the 50-60's. We would have had a shot in a mild shoot out, especially with the way we played opportunistic defense. We could have scored on that defense and our defense could have created turnovers or gotten a few stops, realistically speaking.
Well we didn't rank that high either, and we didn't have a QB that won the heisman.
Blasphemy
I'm just saying Auburn almost lost to a bunch of teams that year including a bad Clemson team who dropped a game winning pass in OT. We had a shot against them.
Was recently looking up some of the stats for those years to see how good our offense really was in those days (I still vividly remember bitching about Stinespring), by S&P+ we were 13th in the country that year, although a bit of a swoon of the defense at 35th. Oddly enough it seems that 2009 was our year, 4th ranked in the country, #10 offense, #7 defense, but Alabama plus that mid-season stumble tripped Tyrod's most championship ready team statistically.
We're also currently ranked 69th on offense, although we're certainly being held back by preseason predictions not yet being filtered out.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa2009
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa2010
The 2010 Hokies didn't have a good enough defense. The 2011 Hokies had a defense but an inexperienced QB. If Tyrod had another year of eligibility the 2011 Hokies win the ACC and play for the national title. Tyrod would have had another year if Glennon hadn't played like crap in the first game of 2008 and forced Beamer to scrap the plan to redshirt Tyrod that year. As always, everything is Glennon's fault.
I'll take it back further and say it's Marcus Vick's fault. If he hadn't gotten kicked out and got the QB progression all screwed up...
Every single shortcoming of the last decade is safe to pin on MV5.
MV5 or Matt Ryan. Either way.
fuck matt ryan.
it is known
"Next level, baby."
Who?
The guy who wore 5 before Tyrod made it retirement-worthy.
Al Clark?
FTFY
Refuse to blame that on a guy who was getting consistent pressure on himself 2 steps into a 3 step drop.
Way to early for predictions, could be awhile before we know. Ask me after we play da U and ND.
As of right now I think we can get past UNC and if we do that the Miami and ND games as you mentioned will tell us more.
However Miami hasn't played anyone and plays a weak GT team this weekend so I don't think we know much about them either. Pitt is feeling more like a trap game that I hope we don't overlook if we get there undefeated.
I don't think we have to worry about getting there undefeated.
There is no way that Pitt is a trap game. They are one of the favorites to win the coastal and have given us tough games over the years.
Syracuse is more of a trap game.
Miami is such a weird team to me right now. Like, who have they played????
They beat the stuffing out of App State after they took Tennessee to OT. Other than that, nobody, but they've still beaten those nobodys pretty convincingly. I feel like they're about where we are, except we've lost our only true test to date, and they haven't really had one.
If we handle UNC like I think we can, then Miami comes to...
...oh, hello Syracuse!
(speaking of trap games)
I'll be there, screaming my head off. Probably my last game before UVA, unless I go crazy and decide to buy tickets to South Bend.
Me too. I think it's in my head because I don't want to leave the Dome feeling the same way I did after the B-ball game this year. At least they were nice people.
-I think they knew they shouldn't have won that game.
Boise and JMU remember how good the 2010 Hokies were.
At this stage, I compare us to the 2004 team in terms of not knowing what to expect. That was our first year in ACC were picked to finish near the bottom etc. Fan base did not know what to expect. I remember watching the Duke game that year and Duke scored first and I thought oh sh@t. Then we rolled them. Lost to NC St. at home etc. Won the Conference!
great season. I went traveled to Miami and the Sugar Bowl that year. Good times.
That Duke game was the first time I saw the other team score first and then lose.
Pump the brakes. The last time this team played away from Lane they lost by 21 points amid a flurry of self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the feet.
hands.
Ran out of toes, starting shooting off fingers.
My feels.
I'll give you this:
this is the first year since 2010 when I am confident going into each game so far. In the seasons since then, I've wanted to win or felt like we should win, but never been confident that the next 3.5 hours is going to be "enjoyable as hell" (this has been my bosses response each of the last two weeks as we curb stomped BC and ECU) to watch.
I'm even confident about UNC next week. Depending on how we do there, I might be confident going into the Miami game.
I'll answer this after we play UNC, Miami, and Pitt.
This is the best team since last week. Anything can happen. Any week. Just get your tickets and enjoy it while it lasts.
I felt this hyped after the game in Columbus, too. Time will tell!
:(
yeah, but then we pooped the bed against ECU...reality came knocking the very next week. ugh. I hate ecu.
Great programs don't rebuild. They simply reload. Coach Fuente understands that . Fuente and Foster are pulling all the strings to get the team ready every game. If the Hokies correct the fumbling and turnover issues, they're a dangerous team.
Agree that I have enjoyed what I've seen so far, and I'm excited about the direction and future of the program. With that said, I reserve placing this team in VT history until I see how they respond after being truly "punched in the mouth". Bristol does not count because that was more like "Why are you hitting yourself dude?!"
I will say that this is the most enjoyable team to watch in a very long time. Don't know about best since whenever, simply because it's way too early to make any comparisons. But this is the most fun I've had watching football in a while. And this is the most exciting/explosive offense I've seen so far maybe ever from VT, Vick and Tyrod years included. Vick was a one-man offense and absolute phenom, but we have so much more talent at WR now and a much better passing attack.
Way to early to comment on best team since... but this team is more enjoyable to watch than a handful of the teams over the past 15 years.
I believe this team is more consistent across the board in terms of its components of defense (line/secondary), offense (qb and skill positions), and special teams (both sides) than any VT team in a while.
I believe we'll beat UNC and the real test be Miami.
1) Nationally televised game where we haven't fared so well lately
2) Miami will be ranked in top 15
3) We could be ranked by then with UNC win
So ultimately we'll see how we handle all this pressure on a team and coaching staff as by this date expectations will be MUCH higher than they are today.
The one big thing that makes this Miami game different from 2014 (other than this one won't get cancelled) is that Duke is no longer there.
For just a moment, I actually wondered what the hell the Duke Blue Devils had to do with us beating Miami.
I think they'll handle the pressure vs Miami well, mostly because they've already had the extreme high-pressure game at the Battle at Bristol. While they folded there, they'll have had that pressure before, so it won't be quite so new. Plus, they're playing at home, and like you said, will have already beaten UNC.
I think it is a critical first step in beating the teams we're supposed to, and doing it convincingly. I'm not ready to even begin talking about comparing past teams.
I'm okay with losing to "better" teams for now.
The thing that pissed me off so much during the 2014 season is a team that beats the national champions in their home stadium in front of 105,000+ has 0 business barely made a bowl game.
Start with the "shoulds" and work towards the "coulds"
100% this. everyone is talking about how confident they are with UNC and how we should have beat UT and be 4-0 right now. With the way the offense and defense have performed this is the scariest VT team i have seen in the past 10 years. I will say there was a time where being a Tech fan felt invincible. You just knew they were going to be in every game and had a shot at winning (which they did a lot). But ever since 08, the mentality became which game (or two) are we gonna lose that we have no business of losing and which game are we gonna win that we have no business of winning.
Mentality can be something that is oft overlooked and it starts with the coaches. The mentality that Fuente and his staff bring is a welcome relief to what has been here the past few seasons. No disrespect to CFB whatsoever, but the past few seasons have felt emotionless and stale save for the sadness of seeing CFB actually retire. This team seems fired up. I, too, reserve judgement until we have beaten some real teams...but I am cautiously optimistic.
I don't think UNC, and especially the UNC fans know what's about to hit them next week.
You're talking about a fanbase that's about to invade their stadium that has spent 2 weeks marinading on a thumping of a team that has gotten under their skin in recent years. And more importantly this is a team and fanbase that again believes it will win any game.
If we beat UNC and look like we did the last couple weeks, and continue it against a pretty inept Syracuse squad.... God help Miami when they come to Lane on Thursday night. That atmosphere could be unreal.
I think we are good enough to beat Pitt, UNC, Miami and win the coastal. However, I think we need to know more about how this team will handle another bad turn during a game. Do we learn from the Tenn debacle? Is this team doomed to repeat the downward spiral if things go wrong for us in another game? Is the interior run game going to become a bigger issue against a better front seven?
My point is the talent, system, and coaching is all there on offense and defense, but the mental edge and focus can either make or break this tough Coastal stretch coming up.
The worrisome thing is, we play Pitt, UNC, and Miami (our top competition for the Coastal) in 3 out of the next 4 weeks. This stretch is going to define our season, and where the division is won or lost. If we can get by UNC, I think the Miami game will end up deciding the Coastal.
A Coastal crown decided by a single game without a giant list of tiebreakers involved?
in my experience, 8-0 conference record tends to be a pretty good way to win your division without those pesky tie breaking rules.
That's where I think the Battle at Bristol renders some intangible benefits. Even though they lost that game, I think they probably deep down know they could have won it.
It's more concerning to me that they don't yet have a run game.
We're averaging 195.5 yards per game and 4.13 yards per carry. The run accounts for about 43.5% of our total yardage.
We have a run game, Jerod is just a big part of it.
I suppose I mean other than mobile quarterback yardage.
That's a difficult distinction to make in an offense like Fuente's. I think you'll see the QB be one of the top three rushers on the team for years to come. Comparing Fuente's run game to Beamer's is apples to oranges.
Lamar Jackson is offended by this.
Like 2004 and 2010?
"A minor setback for a major comeback." -CFB
I vaguely remember hearing about Macho Harris giving an impassioned speech in the aftermath of the Fuck Matt Ryan game in 2007 where he used this quote.
since yesterday
This is the best Hokie team since the season started
Mathematically speaking, based on the record through four games, this is the best team since either 2013 or 2011.
Since the 2014-2015 started off 2-2, we can say 2016 is better through four games. 2012 and 2013 also started 3-1, so maybe we're on the same level? Although those squads didn't have the massive blowouts that this team has had.
2011 started out 4-0.
It's tough to say how good they are though they have played really well
this season. The offense is so different from past teams you can't really
compare them too well.
It is nice to have a team that has the potential to put up so many points
each game. It's nice to look forward to that. Also, having a defense that
appears so locked down and has its players in such good position is
great to see.
I guess the rest of the season will tell us how they really stack up.
Sliced Bread??
this really deserves more legs
I'll go with the safe answer and say best since 2011
Ill say our defense has been playing lights out - aside from 3 plays against ECU which they totaled almost 200 yards, theyve been dominant the last two games, and they held a UT team to 3-13 third downs. Weve always aside from last year have had Top level defenses, this years so far is in that mix for sure.
Offensively, I dont know if I can remember a more consistently efficient offense. Momentum on the offense seems to keep moving forward. For as long as I can remember, there have been games where the offense consistently let the airs out of the tires.
Its the most points weve scored in a 4 game opening stretch since 2003, and in 2003 our schedule was against UCF, JMU, Texas A&M and UConn.
I feel like I can confidently say team starts each game better than any team in recent memory. I just remember even with Tyrod it was always us going down in the first quarter and then the defense clamps down and offense scores enough.
I think we're good, real good. Good enough to win the coastal and give the atlantic champion a good game. However, I want to see how we do on our first true road game and after a key injury that's inevitable to happen at some point.
I have to say, I do enjoy this conversation a lot better than the are we going to win 6 games and make it to a bowl again conversation.
Ultimately I have no idea but it is fun to be flying in the correct direction than slowly sliding in the wrong one.
Fall of 1999. Strong d, strong special teams and powerful offense
If we're going to go back to MV7, I'd think we at least credit the 2000 team as better than this year (thus far). That team averaged ~40 PPG.
I don't like to talk about 2000 just because I get REAL fucking mad that a mediocre Notre Dame team went to the Fiesta Bowl instead of us on name alone and got their doors blown off by Oregon State. And all because we lost to a pretty damn good Miami team that finished with one loss and beat the national champions as well. AND our best player was hurt for that game. I hate the BCS and NCAA for that as well.
Also, I may be slightly unhinged, but I have been looking forward to playing Notre Dame to wreak vengeance upon them for that season ever since they announced the Irish were becoming a "Just the Tip" ACC member. They have things to answer for.
So what you're saying is that week's "Foe"rensics is basically going to be your Sistine Chapel?
There will be blood.
I agree 100%. I was a young chap and kind of liked Notre Dame until that happened. It was a crime, and they have gotten many benefits since then. Good thing is I dont think we were the ones getting screwed out of it.
Every time they got to a BCS game it was undeserved, and they got blown the hell out. I think we will punish them badly this year, maybe as bad as they have lost at home in a while.
I'm not sure how long you've been married, but I'm willing to bet that this grudge against the Domers, NCAA, and BCS is the longest relationship you've had. Bravo for keeping it going.
Personally I'm with you. The Domers are 4th on my hate list behind Miami, WVU, and LOLUVA.
I'm in the same boat as Fifth. I was old enough to understand somewhat how the bowl selection process supposedly worked, and I distinctly remember asking Dad why we ended up in the Gator Bowl when Notre Dame was selected for a BCS bowl. I forget exactly what he said, probably a quick summary of how they're spoiled by NBC and how the NCAA enables their sense of entitlement, but that was the day that Notre Dame became my Public Enemy #2, behind LOLUVA. I feel disgust towards WVU moreso than hatred, and I married a Cane, so that annual matchup has become more of a friendly rivalry.
See I've always thought of LOLUVA as a little brother. It's funny when they say shit because you know they can't back it up. And like a little brother they can't really hurt you. Miami was always a brawl during my time (00-04) and I loved knocking them off. WVU is just a shithole.
Only married 10 years, so yes, I've carried this in my heart a long time. On second thought, Mandy Patinkin may have been more appropriate...
My name is The Fifth Fuller. You ruined the 2000 season. Prepare to die.
I know picture you like this
reference game on point, fam
Look, guys and gals, I know we're all excited about the teams potential. But if you really sit back and look at it, the only thing you have to do is overcome:
So, build your gameplan around these guys, and BOOM. Easy Street. Now.....tell me who I left off the list.
No Sam?