Oklahoma is 5-10 in the big 12, Lunardi has them in the tournament

Why not Wake and Pitt? What a joke. Total farce. 8 Big 12 teams out of a 10 team league. Why play a regular season? Oklahoma's best non con win? Dayton- or Florida who is not in the tourney. What a joke. No wonder Feinstein whines about it every year.

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Comments

I thought you were about to say he has us on the bubble, which would be appropriate for the mothership

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

No, we are a 5 seed in his latest. He has Texas as a 9 seed though.. they are 15-13... so he would likely have them in Dayton at least at .500 using his logic and metrics, right? What a joke

What a joke

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

What a joke

Jokester McJokeFace

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Virginia Tech University Jokies.

Proud author of one plaid comment.

Is the joke on you or me? What a joke!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Wait, does Lunardi determine the brackets?

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Okay so a few reminders that need to be brought up this time of year

  • Joe Lunardi anagrams to Dale Junior
  • Joe Lunardi doesn't offer what he thinks should happen, just how he thinks the tournament selection committee will construct the bracket
  • Hand-wringing and attention like this is the entire point of why Joe Lunardi is employed by ESPN
  • Joe Lunardi also anagrams to Nude Jailor

That is all.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

After we missed the tournament with like 23 wins and 10-6 in the ACC in 09/10 I just refused to ever be surprised by the tournaments bullshit selections ever again.

LOL- yep... that was the year Wake's guy was on the committee and we beat them twice, they got in, we did not- laughable. Tulsa also got an at large that year with zero good wins and like 13 losses.

What a joke

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

It's not that surprising when you dig just a little.

Oklahoma 41st in the NET and went 12-1 against the 15th most difficult OOC schedule this season.

Pitt is 107th in the NET and went 10-3 against the 205th most difficult OOC schedule.

Wake is 189th in the NET and went 7-5 against the 215th most difficult OOC schedule.

Sources:

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Edit: The original SOS link looked at overall SOS. This one goes by OOC SOS by result.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/ranking/non-conference-sos-by-other

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

The Pitt/ Wake comment was hyperbole of course. But overall it is absurd that 80% of a conference be included in a field of 36 at large teams across 10 conferences. That is absurd, especially given the fact that the Big 12 is not the highest rated conference overall. It renders the conference schedule 100% meaningless. Now, if OU's 5 wins were Kansas twice, Texas Tech twice and K State that would be one thing...but of course they are not. Being 30% win % in your conference without marquee wins should automatically make you ineligible for a 36 at large tourney spread among 300 some teams. There is zero logic - or "numbers" to support it.

if OU's 5 wins were Kansas twice, Texas Tech twice and K State...

Then they'd have 2 losses each to WVU, OkSU, and other lesser Big 12 teams. Not a good look no matter how you slice it.

Look at the bright side of all this rather than worry about a team way way behind us that might get in. One of the two teams in the Big12 that has no shot of getting in is the Cousins, who are TURRIBLE this year. I cant remember a Coach Huggins team looking so bad on the floor so often. Lost to Western Kentucky, Rhode Island, and just about every Big 12 team, except they did manage a win against Oklahoma.....

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

And they beat Kansas.

Buzz kill....dont give the Cousins credit when you dont have to

Oklahoma 41th in the NET

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Switched it from 40 to 41 because I was looking at the previous week the first time. 🤦

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Duhhh.. great non-conference wins over likely double digit seeds Wofford, Florida, Dayton and teams well out of the tournament- ND, Wichita, UTSA, Creighton, USC, and horrid Northwestern will do wonders for your "NET". Whew they killed it OOC.

You're responding to a joke about my use of an incorrect numeric suffix.

To your point nearly every P5 team plays a cupcake OOC schedule outside of one or two marquee games that usually come in early season tournament play, a conference challenge, or a rival. Let's look at BC who has a similar conference record in a better conference, but they have an actual trash OOC schedule coming in 202nd. Oklahoma is being rewarded in the NET for playing and winning an amount of Q1 and Q2 OOC games that not a lot of other teams play.

You're going to explain away games like @UTSA, Wofford, and Creighton based on their names when those games are actually Q2 and two Q1 OOC wins. That's in addition to the ones they bagged against Dayton (Q2), Florida (Q1) @Northwestern (Q2) among others.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Northwestern is 3-13 in the B1G- last place- and 12-15 overall. In somebody's world, that's a good win.

In the world of the metrics that the committee looks at it's a Q2 win because it was on the road. You're dealing purely in subjectivity and name recognition because the numbers and metrics don't bear out your view of the situation.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Northwestern is 3-13 in the B1G. That's not made up, that's not trolling, that is a fact. That is a "number", a "metric". They are going to finish last in the B1G and not play in the post season. Oklahoma won in their gym- another fact that I am fully aware of. The fact that the committee gives them "credit" for that is what I have a problem with. 100's of articles have been written about the flaws in the precious "metrics" that are supposed to identify the best 36 at large teams in the country in a pool of 300 teams. The fact - the numbers- that Oklahoma can not compete with teams in their league tells me they are not a top 36 team. If 30% win % metrics and beating 3-13 teams indicate they are top 36, then they need to use different "numbers".

Northwestern is 3-13 in the B1G. That's not made up, that's not trolling, that is a fact.

The value of the win against Northwestern is shaped by that Northwestern record you're citing as well as Northwestern's margins of victory and defeat, and their adjusted offensive and defensive efficiency.

That is a "number", a "metric".

Do numbers and metrics only count if you think they're on your side?

The fact that the committee gives them "credit" for that is what I have a problem with. 100's of articles have been written about the flaws in the precious "metrics" that are supposed to identify the best 36 at large teams in the country in a pool of 300 teams.

I invite you to propose the dcwilson40 metric. Where conference records reign supreme. In the dcwilson40 metric would more PAC 12 teams be in the discussion of the tournament because conference wins should apparently be weighted heavier than out of conference wins? That's effectively what you're arguing for when you dismiss Oklahoma's non conference strength of schedule because of their conference record.

If 30% win % metrics and beating 3-13 teams

Let's go over this again, because I guess I wasn't comprehensive enough for you earlier.

@UTRVG (Q3) 17-14 (8-4)
@UTSA (Q2) 15-13 (9-6)
Wofford (Q1) 25-4 (15-0)
Florida (Q1) 17-11 (9-6)
Dayton (Q2) 19-9 (11-4)
UNT (Q4) 20-9 (8-8)
Notre Dame (Q3) 13-15 (3-12)
USC (Q3) 15-15 (8-8)
Creighton (Q2) 15-13 (6-9)
@Northwestern (Q2) 12-16 (3-14)

For a grand total of 3 Q1, 5 Q2, 3 Q3, and 1 Q4 wins.

Now to complete this thought exercise let's compare Oklahoma's out of conference wins by quadrant against a different bubble team with the exact same overall record but a better conference record. Let's talk about Clemson since we're well familiar with the Tigers. Clemson went 10-3 OOC against the 45th toughest OOC SOS. Only 30 spots behind Oklahoma you might think. How big could the difference be?

Clemson has 2 Q2, 3 Q3, and 5 Q4 wins OOC. The difference here is abundantly clear.

If Oklahoma had the same overall record but you took a couple of their Q1 and Q2 OOC wins and threw them into their conference W-L to square them with Clemson would their resume suddenly be more attractive to you?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Honestly.... fuck 'em, let 'em in...

Make the field as weak as possible and maybe we get lucky with how they get placed in the regions...

No one will remember the path taken, just who's the last man standing.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

No one will remember the path taken

In related news, we beat Duke when they had the #1 overall draft pick in 2019 on their roster!!

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I'm talking like path during the tournament...

I don't think when most people reflect on National Champions past, they argue: "Yea...well... they only had to beat a non-deserving Oklahoma team in the round of 32 to get there"

** Disclaimer** "Most people" does not incorporate UVA fans.... in order to discredit a VT accomplishment, UVA fans would nit pick teams we had to play in the tournament as well as our weak out of conference football schedule if we ever won a NCAA tournament.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Your conference teams know you. They play you twice a year. They are typically budget and recruiting peers. In the P5, road conference games are -typically- in bigger gyms than UTSA or other mid majors. The fact that Oklahoma can't compete under these circumstances tells me that they are not one of the top 36 teams in the country. Everyone on this board holds "acc road wins" as the sacred gosphel, but I guess Big 12 road wins are meaningless. If you go 100% by the quadrant system, fine- then let in under .500 teams with some Q2 wins in the tourney. Why not? Clemson has shown they can compete within the ACC- a better league than where Oklahoma has lost twice as many games as they have won. But hey, if it's about quadrants, let Penn State in.

road conference games are -typically- in bigger gyms than UTSA or other mid majors

You're still cherry picking games by name recognition and using those games to write off Oklahoma's OOC body of work. Stadium's too small so it doesn't count? They still had to travel to it.

but I guess Big 12 road wins are meaningless.

Exactly what I said. 👌

Clemson has shown they can compete within the ACC

Clemson's best win is at home against us. Every other ACC win they have came over Pitt, Wake, BC, and Georgia Tech. They have 1 Q1 win to Oklahoma's 3. Their overall body of work does not match Oklahoma's overall body of work. The tournament is about overall body of work.

If you go 100% by the quadrant system, fine- then let in under .500 teams with some Q2 wins in the tourney. Why not?

But hey, if it's about quadrants, let Penn State in.

No one here is arguing for under .500 overall teams to get in the tournament.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

LOL- I'm cherry picking an actual team Oklahoma played. Gotcha. Their best OOC win- the sacred "OOC" is Dayton. Clemson's win over VT is better than that. Penn States wins over VT, Maryland, Michigan are better than that. And I'm fully aware of "name recognition"- I just told you super power traditional name Dayton is their best OOC win- I GET IT. I hope VT is in consideration for a 9 seed on March 1st next year if we are 4-11 in the ACC. That would be awesome.

Their best OOC win- the sacred "OOC" is Dayton.

Dayton isn't their best OOC win. That's wrong, and either you aren't reading my posts or are avoiding their best wins on purpose. That's cherry picking. Their best OOC wins are Florida and Wofford. Next you're going to tell me the Wofford win doesn't matter because it's Wofford.

Second there is nothing sacred about OOC records, but they also aren't to be written off which you're so eager to do. 12-1 against the 15th toughest OOC schedule isn't something to just write off. If they were sitting at 12-1 in the Big 12 with a 5-10 OOC record where their worst loss was Q2 (@WVU) would this be a different discussion?

Clemson's win over VT is better than that.

Yes, Clemson's one Q1 win is better than Oklahoma's 3 Q1 wins, but they only have one of them.

Penn States wins over VT, Maryland, Michigan are better than that.

Penn State is also under .500 overall with a mountain of bad losses to go along with their good wins.

I just told you super power traditional name Dayton is their best OOC win- I GET IT.

Again, you're wrong.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

The easy explanation is that Trae Young's ghost is more influential than conference wins.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

the sooners have Kansas and K-State coming up. They'll lose both and go to the NIT.

Exactly, no way do they get in with a 6-12 record in the Big 12.

It's not just Lundardi. Bracket predictions from The Athletic, CBS Sports and Andy Katz (I think his was on the NCAA website) all have Oklahoma in right now, some as high as a 9 seed. The committee looks at a lot more than just conference and overall record.

to the heart of cygnus' fearsome force we set our course

The committee looks at a lot more than just conference and overall record.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

I get that. So if a team goes 0-18 in their conference but has a great OOC schedule, and good "numbers", logic says they should be in, right? So why play the conference season?

A team that goes 0-18 is looking at 13-18, tops. That's a completely different story.

As a general rule, I'd trust the numbers in general over one cherry picked stat, though I doubt in any of today's conference alignments it would be possible to go 0-18 in conference and finish where Oklahoma is in KenPom or the NET ratings.

Conferences affiliations are about money, not somehow making a more meaningful game in determining the which teams are good. There's nothing making Texas Tech's win over Kansas more impressive than Kentucky's just because Texas Tech and Kansas are in the same conference while Kentucky isn't.

to the heart of cygnus' fearsome force we set our course

Jerry Palm explains
The video at the top of the page.
This is a few days old but he explains it right off the bat.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

What. A. Joke.

February..'96...the steak: ribeye, the whiskey:Lagavulin 16, the lady next to me: a bit**.....

whatajoke.org

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

THIS IS (almost) MARCH

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Joe Lunardi also doesn't think Danny Coale caught the ball.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Lundardi has Florida in as a 9 seed.... They're 5th in the SEC and have won their last 5. While they are 1-6 vs ranked opponents, unless they crap the bed the rest of the way, I'd say they're in.

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

#JustinTime

What a Joke.

AKA February Madness.

2 many Jokes tbh

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Maybe he thought Kyle Murray played on the basketball team too...

To joe's credit, they were dropped from the bracket in his Feb 12 version, after a 7 game losing streak. Since then they've gone 2-1 (against mediocre b12 competition) but that's not enough in my mind to give them (or any team) a 10-seed in the NCAA tourney.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Kyler Murray... i need more red bull

Joke a what

When in doubt. Nap it out

I think the "j" is silent!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

What a joke anagrams to hat oak jew.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

VT is sitting as the highest #6 seed right now (as of 27FEB)
Latest Bracket Matrix

5 Iowa State (Big 12): 5.25
5 Nevada (Mountain West): 5.26
6 Virginia Tech (ACC): 5.27

I think if we can pull off a win against FSU, we'll be in a great position to move up to the 3rd best 5th seed spot.

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

If we beat FSU and then beat them again in the ACCT, we should most definitely move off that 5 spot.

Is it basketball season yet?

If we beat FSU and then beat them again in win the ACCT, we should most definitely move off that 5 spot and into a 3 or 4 spot

FTFY

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Honestly would rather end up a 6th seed than have anything to do with the 5-12 matchups. These are the ones that the selection committee always seem to set up to have the greatest potential for upset. Of course moving up to a 3 or 4 seed would be great but I want to avoid the curse of the 5.

In our case, curse of the #5 deals with anyone having to play VT in the tourney with a healthy Justin Robinson.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I thought VT's #5 curse has to do with the number of the metatarsal.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Surprisingly, over the past 4 tournaments, only three 5-12 upsets have happened, while 10 6-11 upsets have happened.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Not so surprisingly over the past 4 tournaments...

...there has been only one, 1-16 upset

Hey Tony,

You got me there

Shots fired at The Sabre

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

This Dance is going to be pretty wide open as it is. Its a farce in my mind if VT doesn't get a 5 seed at minimum, but I think they can make a run in either spot.

I say how about we just win the ACC and get a #3

Wow, tourney lock Oklahoma continues to impress. Losing again to a terrible WVU team. Doesn't matter though, since WVU is a Big 12 team and that's not important. They might be the only 9 seed in history with 12 conference losses though. Lock.

This infuriates me after our 2009-10 snub with 10 ACC wins

Exactly, but Oklahoma beat Wofford, so they are on the 9 seed line. That's all that matters. Being noncompetitive in your own league and losing to bad teams- many of them- is not important. The road win at terrible northwestern makes up for that.

I'm finding it difficult to be outraged toward the committee given VT's current standing. Maybe in a year where we're on the bubble, but not now.

Its a well known fact that criteria changes every year, so comparing this year to the standards of the past is a fool's errand. We learned this nearly 10 years ago firsthand when Greenberg was seemingly chasing his own tail and failing to get our teams in.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Good post. I agree with the premise. My issue is that there are 36 spots, not 68..but 36 at large spots. If the only thing you are good at is losing a lot of games after December, I have a hard time believing you are a top 36 team.

what a joke!

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

The bubble is really weak this year. If there was ever a year where none of the fringe P5 teams should get in over deserving mid-majors, this is the year.

Seriously, 17-14 Florida is on lots of 'Last 4 In' lists. Really?

Clemson vs. NC State was deemed a bubble game... get both of these average teams out of here. It feels icky, but I'm hoping UVA beats the Wolfpack like a drum today just so we don't have to hear about NC State. They played absolutely NOBODY in their non-con, and their best ACC win is against Syracuse. LOL. That team doesn't deserve to be in the big dance.

You want every ACC team on the bubble that finishes 9-9 or 8-10 to be in the tournament every year, even with questionable non-conference SOS.

With one addendum, you want all of those teams to get in and actually win a game or two in the Dance.

There will certainly be plenty of years where VT will need the benefit of the ACC doubt. Years ago we wern't getting that nudge even for 10 win ACC seasons, but moving forward I expect we will.

Yeah, I get it... tournament credits and whatnot.

But man, the tournament would be far more interesting this year with teams like Belmont, Lipscomb, UNC-G and Furman over NC State, Oklahoma, Florida, & Texas.

Just my opinion, even if it costs the conference a unit.

Listening to the radio here in Raleigh on the way home from work yesterday, all they could do was lament their terrible OOC scheduling (literally 2nd worst OOC schedule in all of D1 basketball... 352nd or something like that). I swear I had flashbacks to the Greenberg years where everyone laughed at us over hyper analyzing our RPI metrics and blah blah blah.

If you can only score 24 points in a D1 basketball game, you probably shouldn't be in the tournament.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Non conference SOS is such a non-stat. Did State make Penn State, Vandy, and Auburn play bad this year? Of course not.

Auburn isn't that bad

They were a top 10 team when State beat them, now they're nowhere near a top 10 team.

My point is, NET negates the SOS. If you play a terrible Q4 team and beat them by 40, the NET takes it into account.

I don't believe NET takes SOS into account. Its why you see such radical differences between NET and RPI, which did take SOS into account

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

NET absolutely takes strength of schedule into account. The very first component includes it.

NCAA Evaluation Tool components listed in order of weighting, from most to least:

1. Team Value Index. Algorithm set up to reward teams who beat other good teams. Results-oriented component of the N.E.T. Factors: Opponent, Location, Win/Loss.

2. Net Efficiency. Offensive (your points per possession) minus Defensive Efficiency (opponents points per possession).

3. Winning Percentage. As simple as it gets. # of wins divided by # of games played.

4. Adjusted Win Percentage. Weighted value winning % based on location (basically the Winning Percentage calculation from the RPI, more credit for road wins than home wins, more penalty for home losses than road losses)

5. Scoring Margin. Point differential capped at +/- 10 points. OT games are capped at +/- 1 point.

Let's see if Texas gets in at 16-16. No, not kidding. Hey, they have some decent "OOC" wins- the holy grail. Lunardi had them in yesterday. The Big 12 is hot trash this year and they will get 7 teams in.