What is taking so long with Brock Hoffman's transfer appeal?

What is taking so long? I would have thought that the appeal process would be over by now. Camp starts on Friday. I'm sure the team would like to know if he can play this season or not.

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Happy now?

Eddie my dude. The original title was confusing, as I had no idea what you were referencing and I'm sure others were lost as well.

The second is better, but would be excellent with something like what is taking so long with the NCAA appeal?

Not trying to be the hall monitor, I'm sure others were confused just like me.

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I fixed it. Hopefully Eddie and others will use this as an example of an appropriate title.

I was joking around. My title was very vague

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the mushroom treatment...

Who gets cleared to play first..Hoffman or Nolley?

Nolley is cleared since his high school grades do not matter anymore.

I think Harris is going to play before both of them.

If you are going to do something wrong, do it as close to the nearest source of noise. This distracts from what you are doing.

My bet is the NCAA is going to screw us, and more so Hoffman, over as close to kick off as they can.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Because NCAA.

Because #FUCKTHENCAA

Also, fuck Pat Narduzzi

"Give me a fuΒ’king beer", Anonymous Genius

Fuck Matt Ryan as well

While we are here, fuck Paul Johnson

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

With a cactus

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

We can't do that... to the cactus

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

With a cactus

Nice touch Alum!

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

With a cactus

/ssssss

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Permission to use this when I give my two weeks notice?

uva - the taint of the ACC
XL Jockstraps 34 - Ascots 31
#15 Straight

If I'm VT, I simply play him and tell the NCAA they can figure out what they want and let us know when you've reached a decision. If they rule him ineligable, I would paste that shit everywhere I could and demand an explanation why player x is cleared for whatever reason and Hoffman is not. The optics for the NCAA would be horrific and there's no way they would stick to that ruling if they were dumb enough to stumble upon it early on. At some point someone needs to call them on their bullshit and say we're following your rule so once you figure out how not to screw this up let us know cause we've got a football team to run. I'm sick of the incompetence of the NCAA and their inefficient bureaucracy and someone needs to call them out for once.

The optics for the NCAA would be horrific and there's no way they would stick to that ruling if they were dumb enough to stumble upon it early on.

Yes but counterpoint: The NCAA doesn't give 2 shits about optics. Hell they don't even give 1 shits.

(add if applicable) /s

This post is logical and rational. I wholeheartedly endorse it and think it's the way to play the situation. Unfortunately, the NCAA does not deal well with things like logic because they have no incentive to. They simply make up the rules as they go along, and thus they face no consequences for when they fuck up -- which they do, a lot.

Still, to your point, I think this is a good strategy.

"You know when the Hokies say 'We are Virginia Tech' they're going to mean it."- Lee Corso

or they say screw you and we forfeit every game he plays in. The NCAA stands their ground on some really dumb shit and this would be a great example.

If I'm VT, I simply play him and tell the NCAA they can figure out what they want and let us know when you've reached a decision.

Absolutely not. This is a horrible idea. If i'm VT I would NOT do this strategy. It's exactly because NCAA is irrational that you should not play with fire. UNC and Miami have gotten away with murder, whereas GT and other programs have been carpet-bombed with the most minor violations. You want multi-year, crippling sanctions? This is how you get it.

That is the reason we should not do it, but the reason the sentiment you're replying to exists at all is because the NCAA is a kangaroo court whose authority is not worthy of respect.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

whose authority is not worthy of respect

As long as they can hammer us with sanctions, they are worthy of respect. Like it or not unfortunately.

Fear is not respect.

Use acknowledged then, if that's a better word for you. Either way, you can't just disregard the NCAA and the clout they carry.

The only lesson that I learned from UNC and Miami (and Penn St) is, if you're going to tell the NCAA to fuck off, make sure you already have your lawyer ready to go before doing so.

The NCAA's bite gets quite tame the second a school even threatens to take them to court.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

That's quite a gamble. You willing to risk the future of VT on such a bet? I wouldn't - especially for a position where we already have decent strength. Nothing against Hoff, but the risk / reward doesn't pay out at all.

The NCAA is a paper lion.

Seriously, they haven't ruined the future of a program since the 80s when they went after SMU. And that was after SMU got a little too cozy among the elites of the region in Texas and Oklahoma.

They certainly aren't going to go after VT. Remember, the government of Virginia got involved to make sure VT got invited to the ACC back in 2003. If the NCAA wanted to even try to hand down a big penalty on us after our legislators saw what happened in NC and Penn, it wouldn't only be the lawyers of Virginia Tech going after the organization, the state government would as well.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

They messed up USC pretty bad after Reggie Bush.

And I'm sorry, but chest puffing aside and calling the NCAA a paper lion notwithstanding, this is just a risk not worth taking. No one in their right mind would say "you know what? Let's roll the dice 😁 - what's the worst that could happen?". You don't know that they won't go after VT and that's all the reason not to do it.

USC is a private school and not a state school. Virginia would be hopping mad if they came after Tech on a capricious claim.

Private vs State has nothing to do with it.

And you think the state of VA would get involved if we got any NCAA sanctions? They absolutely won't. In fact, it would be a waste of tax payer funds if they did.

VT athletics matters to a whole lot of VA constituents and going against the NCAA makes you look like a rebel. Easy play for a junior rep trying to make a name for themselves

Lolololol. Wait, let's recap:

So, you think our AD and President should put our whole institution and good name at-risk and should go against the NCAA for a transfer lineman (again, for a position we already have strength in, but we'll ignore that for now) just cuz we think our constituents will back us emotionally (not to mention that they don't really matter, but let's leave that for now too), in the hopes that that some young-gun lawyer will all of a sudden have a reason to salivate at the chops to go against the NCAA for us?

So we're just going to create our own story here and make believe something out of Erin Brokovich? Disney / Pixar path we takin now?

Honestly, any permanent & irreparable damage we can kamikaze on the NC dubba A would be SPECTACULAR. If you can make 'em bleed, the sharks will start circling. They already have a negative image. Pile it on. Stick 'em.

I'm specifically responding to "would the VA state government get involved if the NCAA took drastic action against VT." They jumped into conference realignment and other state governments have involved themselves in athletics (check CA bill on paying players for likeness). Seems clear they would get involved in this too.

Seems clear they would get involved in this too.

uh, sure...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

In fact, it would be a waste of tax payer funds if they did.

Wasting tax payer funds is exactly what the government likes to do, particularly the state capital of Virginia.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I've seen lots of governments, and they all like to spend money. They do things for taxpayers, and then they send the taxpayers a bill, and everybody acts surprised that the stuff wasn't really free.

On the other hand, your state lawmakers making a call to the NCAA and telling the newspaper that they did that doesn't cost a huge amount of money.

But probably the more effective route here would be having a lawyer talk to the media. What the hell is wrong with the NCAA? Someone is authorized to fix this, and they've had long enough to do that.

Get Andy Bitter engaged.

And on the other hand, taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. Now, if we can just get civilized.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

It's all relative, I suppose.

No you should be big enough that the ncaa and your conference can't afford to lose you

Recruit Prosim

Because we are VT and not Ohio State or Miami or FSU or Alabama

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

All NCAA actions are subject to an arbitrary and capricious standard of review and their rules must evidence a "clear intent to benefit student-athletes".

In both cases, the players received waivers from the previous schools, i.e., no opposition to their immediate eligibility. Hoffman can show a clear benefit. Burmeister can show tangible harm. Any decent administrative law atty should have a field day with denial for Hoffman or Burmeister given the standards above and the previous decisions affecting the upcoming season. Whether they would file for an injunction in the event of an adverse finding is probably the better question.

edit: The absurdity of the first denial (5 miles outside the 100 mile circle) for Hoffman is that if his parents rent a place 5 miles closer to campus, the waiver would be approved. Burmeister, who has pro aspirations and no RS available, stands to lose a year of eligibility for non academic or non disciplinary reasons.

edit 2: The NCAA should adopt a hard rule for all full scholarship athletes that allows academically eligible players to transfer after 2 years without penalty; less than two years and you sit out a year. Two years is a sufficient "engagement".

Fuck the NCAA

....still, Fuck Pat Narduzzi and Matt Ryan.

"Give me a fuΒ’king beer", Anonymous Genius

I just know that Braxton Key played right away for UVA and was a key player in a national championship run. I also know that Tate Martell will play right away at Miami, as will Justin Fields at OSU. There is a common denominator in all of these separate cases. None were transferring into VT.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

All these players also did not transfer to Wyoming. Brock did not transfer to Wyoming. THE LOGIC HERE IS FLAWLESS. HOFFMAN WILL BE CLEARED.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Now you've got me wondering if Wyoming message boards actually complain about the NCAA having it out for them.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

So, hes repping with the team per Bitter, and coaches are treating it as business as usual. Best guess is they've got an early notification that everything will clear, and just waiting on formality.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

They don't know anything or have any feedback that is helpful. They believe their case makes sense under the appeal using different grounds, but dealing with the NCAA is very uncertain as equitable decisions seem inconsistent and there is no timetable.

I definitely hope this works out as getting Hoffman eligible would be a boost for the O line.

I'd guess that they're just making sure he's ready to play ball in game 1 in case he gets the waiver.

What sucks is that at some point, his reps are going to have to be dialed back to make room for those eligible to play week 1. We should hire Maryland's lawyers/compliance people.

In other news, Ohio State former 4 star LB Keondre Jones's waiver to play immediately at Maryland has been granted , because Jones is not transferring into VT of course.

Is Maryland's entire team going to be fielded by transfers? Seems like half the portal is going there.

Transfers, who somehow have instant eligibility.

I had a dream last night that the NCAA just got back to VT on Kyle Chung's appeal for a 6th season.

Good thing the system isn't rigged, and doesn't try to make you sweat those kinds of decisions.

While filing a waiver should have nothing to do with whether you're paying a consultant, the wheels of justice turn slowly for those who don't play the game.

the VT compliance office is killing me here.
- appealing the medical hardship waiver after the NCAA makes it clear they're being picky about its criteria, instead of going straight to the general (mitigating circumstances) waiver that has worked for so many other players in Hoffman's situation (coaching change)
- declining assistance from a pro who knows how to get results in this process

Why are they doing it this way? Are they just generally obtuse?

Not sure if trying to be fiscally responsible to the tax payers of VA or not...since lawyers aren't free. But "missing" on a few things by going solo surely isn't working.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

I have been patiently waiting for this response since posting my comment. I just knew someone would. Leg for not letting me down.

That seems to be a fair representation of the NCAA.

Agreed. I read that article as clear incompetence from VT. I really hope it doesn't burn us here.

Exactly. We need a do-over here.

Leonard. Duh.

We need the NCAA to do the right thing for a change. It's clear from a mile away (or five, as it were) that he merits the waiver.

I agree and was going to post the same thing until I saw your comment. Why do we decline the pro's help? I don't see the downside and I thought the plan was to apply for a different waiver.

I'm not optimistic based on these variables

I agree that the medical hardship route does not seem to be the correct approach as the NCAA does not seem to have relaxed the rules on that whatsoever. However, I would point out that:
1) Thomas Mars is no longer assisting players in waiver cases (link) and
2) Luke Ford, the other player mentioned in the article being represented by Mars, still had his appeal denied (link).

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I remember hearing about Ford, and that's partly why I'm so annoyed VT appealed the medical hardship waiver decision... it's likely Hoffman will get denied again just like Ford.

Didn't realize he was assisted by Mr. Mar and that Mr. Mar has had enough of the waiver madness...

declining assistance from a pro who knows how to get results in this process

"There's a first time for everything, and this just happened to be the first time I wasn't able to add any value to the process," Mars said.

Potential ignorance, but I read this as they consulted Mars and he most likely said "yup do that"
Rather than have him handle direct representation ($$$), VT and the Hoffman's feel confident that there's not much value-add in this situation?

There was a practice photo of Will Pritchard at Center working with Lecitus Smith and Christian Darrisaw. There is always lots of rotation this early in camp, but to see a true freshman getting that work when there are several experienced center prospects is eye opening. I loved his film (great feet, quick first step, and a nasty attitude) and he was the better of the the pair going against Josh Fuga in the state title game. (That isn't s knock of Fuga- he was playing both ways but Pritchard was eating him up when Fuga got gassed.)

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

How does he compare to Andrew Miller? who was a pretty damn good player, IMO

I wasn't as high on Miller (and I heard he didn't appreciate it very much.) Pritchard has much better feet, but is a bit smaller and doesn't quite have the wingspan. I don't know if there is a VT lineman he compares to. He reminds me of Jim Richter, a borderline HOF guard with the Bills who looked tiny but won with great feet, effort, and technique.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Ok, so if we have Hoffman, could we actually Redshirt Pritchard and save a year of eligibity? Or is Hoffman not as sure of a bet as originally thought?

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

(great feet, quick first step, and a nasty attitude)

Jake Grove NASTY?

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

There was a practice photo of Will Pritchard at Center working with Lecitus Smith and Christian Darrisaw. There is always lots of rotation this early in camp, but to see a true freshman getting that work when there are several experienced center prospects is eye opening. I loved his film (great feet, quick first step, and a nasty attitude) and he was the better of the the pair going against Josh Fuga in the state title game. (That isn't s knock of Fuga- he was playing both ways but Pritchard was eating him up when Fuga got gassed.)

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Drink!

You can say that again.

#38-0

Had a good VT friend who happened to be at the beach with Pritchard's family over the summer (not friends before, but met there). They got to talking and the Dad and other friends there all stated that he has the "nasty" factor when on the field. None of them claimed to know where he got it from, but that they embraced it and occasionally have to get him to turn it down as he loves winning the battles in the trenches. Reminded me of Jake Grove when they described his mentality (not saying physically - I don't know that part - Jake had the perfect mentality to play offensive line)

They went on to say he loves football and went to VT due to the cultural fit and Vice/Fuente. Obviously, they are biased for the kid but my buddy's impression was that this kid had all the right stuff to be really good including the "want-to" factor that isn't always easy to find.

The fact that Chris Steele, who transferred from Florida to USC after just enrolling early this past spring, has just been granted immediate eligibility and Bru McCoy, who early enrolled at USC, the transferred to Texas, and then transferred back to USC, has been granted immediate eligibility, but we are still waiting on Hoffman's appeal to be answered is mindblowing.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Not as mind blowing when you remember this is the NCAAs decision making process

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

That's actually not how the NCAA operates. There are many schools (like UNC) that have their way with the NCAA and it has little to do with brand and everything to do with approach. VT hasn't learned how to approach the NCAA yet. The fact that some huckster was allowed to manage Hoffman's transfer application should be the first indication that the VTAD still has hills to climb.

This is disappointing to hear.

Anybody else wonder after the first application was denied, they just didn't change to the coaching change reason? It was valid as well and has been approved how many times this year?

They shouldn't have had to make the change, but it would have worked.

"The fact that some huckster was allowed to manage Hoffman's transfer . . ."

Can you remind me the details on this point? I thought Hoffman did not use an attorney on original application and then VT compliance office is handling the appeal.

Correct. And that seems to potentially be the issue.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

This is what I was referring to.

I mean it certainly concerns me, but I think it's a little harsh to call our compliance office a "shuckster" without further information.

Either way, I just really hope it works out, and soon.

So... egg on my face... I wasn't calling anyone in the VT compliance Department a huckster. In fact, one thing I don't question about the admin is their integrity.

But.... I thought I'd read somewhere that the Hoffman family worked with a consultant on the first appeal and looked to post a link here... it seems I may have muddled their interactions with Thomas Mars and the first appeal.

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/28/transfers-brock-hoffman-luke-ford-retain-services-of-top-lawyer-thomas-mars-to-fight-ncaa/

I still think it's troubling that the VT compliance department didn't take the reigns from the start though.

I guess the question is was the VT compliance office allowed to take charge of somebody who might not have been a student yet.

I think they can definitely marshal their resources to point them in the right direction and set them up for success.

VT Admin is definitely not timely.

Our fraternity was going through student conduct during the spring semester (started in March) and some of us were slated to live in the Oak Lane house the following fall. They said that they would expedite the process so that those of us could sign leases for the next school year before spring semester was finished.

They didn't come to a final decision until the end of June. Effectively leaving us out to dry for housing that next year if we would have been kicked off campus. Every single deadline they gave us for the decision, they ignored.

I know that student conduct is not handling Hoffman's case but VT admin issues stem from the top down and across multiple departments.

-Stick it in

There are many schools (like UNC) that have their way with the NCAA and it has little to do with brand and everything to do with approach.

Its funny you bring up UNC.

The commissioner of the ACC is an alum of UNC. He was also their AD during the 80s and early 90s. This is the one person who is most influential in going to bat for a school if the NCAA comes calling. The lead investigator that was in charge of the UNC scandal was a UNC alum. This was somehow not deemed a conflict of interest and was allowed to continue for multiple years until it became an issue in the press. This person was able to delay the investigation long enough to minimize any damage done. UNC also pumps out a ton of lawyers every year, so the courts in NC are stacked with alumni ready to do whats necessary to help UNC in the long run.

UNC has greased the wheel so strongly by planting people in roles throughout the governing bodies of college athletics that there really isn't any chance that they're going to get hit strongly. And should the NCAA ever be forced to look into them, there are enough people in the legal system who would gladly go after the NCAA pro bono on the school's behalf that they also have a really good backup plan in case their first line of defense falls.

And this is how and why you saw the academic scandal proceed like it did, with the end result of effectively nothing happening.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Just be sure not to call them "obtuse".

really sets them off.

Steele actually has a legit case. He didn't get along with his roommate, requested to change dorms, and was denied. A couple weeks later, his roommate was booted from UF for multiple sexual harassment claims.

What's disappointing is how quickly his decision came down.

Steele has a legitimate reason to change dorms but not a legit reason to transfer and be eligible immediately. A ton of people don't get along with their roommates Freshman year of college and are stuck even if that person is doing shady stuff.

It just doesn't make sense why that seems so cut and dry to the NCAA but Hoffman's isn't? Like mentioned by Alum07, maybe we need to start a law school so we can put some people in power at the highest positions like UNCheat.

NCAA pls

Damn, I come in here hoping to see actual updates but it's all still "maaaan fuck the NCAA maan"

Maybe someone should tell the NCAA that the season starts in 15 days.

We used to do blonde jokes here until a blonde beat the NCAA in an IQ test. Now its nothing but NCAA jokes.

What do you call a 50 word essay by a UNC jock? An A+
What do you call a 5000 word waiver request by a transfer to VT? A rejection.

The LewDew, Professional Golf Bum

One week until the season starts - time to start betting on the over/under of the hated, maligned and despised NCAA handing out a decision before the first game. I say not only do we not hear, but if the team wins regularly may not get a decision until deep into the season.

The LewDew, Professional Golf Bum

I thinks we needs to get ourselves some better attorneys, cause between the Nolley situation in basketball to situations like this, it seems we always come out on the short end of the stick, while the blue-blood schools almost always get their way. It's ridiculous.

If we hear nothing of this decision throughout the year, does that mean Hoffman loses a year of eligibility? I wouldn't be surprised.

"That man was violating a city ordinance, and I was just doing my duty to enforce it." - Mike Curtis

"You boys in there smokin' rope?"-Johnny Unitas (circa 1973) to his San Diego Chargers teammates

I obviously don't know what happens inside the compliance office, but since other schools are having players granted for very similar situations with ease, we are obviously not doing something right. I wouldn't be surprised if we are just doing everything by the book, sending off a request, and waiting for responses. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Other schools are lawyering up and being persistent, and I'm willing to bet we are sitting around waiting being the nice guys.

No. The NCAA will rule that he is eligible with 3 games remaining on the season and therefore state that the year that he has needed to sit out the first 9 games will count against his 4 as he can play for the remainder of the season.

I have it on good authority that Ryan Willis REALLY wants Hoffman snapping him the ball.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

During the Miami-Florida game last night, the announcers mentioned Miami had a player in the same situation (waiting on the NCAA) and inactive to play.

Yeah and there are a few Michigan transfers that have been having problems getting decisions. It sucks, but sometimes we need to get perspective we aren't the only ones with this even though it may feel like it.

Oh and fuck the NCAA

Let's Go

HOKIES

Solid chance this goes unanswered into the season. Very frustrating