June 2019 -Football Recruiting and Transfer thread

Discuss and share any Virginia Tech related recruiting topics from June 2019 [0] that don't warrant their own thread [1]. Please do some digging to share original content (e.g. embed the original tweet, not a link to another post/website with said tweet), add context / relevant information and respect the Community Guidelines.

[0] If someone would like to make this thread from month-to-month, let Joe know, he is apt to forget and pressed for time. Or simply copy the boilerplate and start a new thread.
[1] New commitments, decommitments, portal entries, etc... deserve their own thread. Please read the brief best-practice tips at the top of the recruiting forum.
[2] 2021 is our year!
[3] Cheese is delicious
[4] Michael Jordan > LeBron James
[5] Cake>Pie
[6] There is no 6

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.


It's summer!

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

[4] Michael Jordan > LeBron James

Doesn't matter, Wilt is the GOAT.

Bill Russell would give you the middle finger but his hand is weighed down by all those rings.

Not even top 5.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Laughably wrong opinion. Dude is on damn near every page of the NBA record books.

Three years ago ESPN had him ranked exactly at #5, so I guess technically you're right. But Wilt is not even the best center of all time, much less the best overall player.

NBA MVPs: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6, Wilt Chamberlain 4

All-Star appearances: Kareem 19, Wilt 13; All-NBA: Kareem 15, Wilt 10; All-NBA Defense: Kareem 10, Wilt 2

Championships: Kareem 6, Wilt 2

The other 9 players in ESPNs top 10 have a total of 45 titles, and only Wilt and Olajuwon at #10 have less than 3. Wilt was a dominant force, but best of all time? I don't know a single person who actually knows NBA history who thinks that.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

The rings argument is played out. And your argument relies on subjective rankings and polls vice objective playing statistics, which strongly support my position. Thanks for playing.

The rings argument is played out.

Umm, so why do they keep score then?

The reason titles are so important in basketball is that the truly transcendent players (Magic, Jordan, Bird, Kobe, LeBron, Shaq, etc.) are able to put their teams on their shoulders and win championships, much more so than baseball or football. And the reason that relatively few people consider Wilt the best ever (sorry but that's just a fact, no matter how confident you are) is that he just didn't win enough.

Every player in the top-10 of that ESPN list (subjective yes, but put together by people who know a lot more than you or I) put up fantastic stats. The ones ahead of Wilt did that, and also won a bunch of titles. He's on the all-time list for sure, he's just not on top of it.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Wilt couldn't guard the entire court by himself so he gets penalized? Jordan, Bryant and James were on teams stocked with defensive talent and that is what allowed them to win so many titles.

I don't think anyone is penalizing Wilt Chamberlain, he's a Hall of Famer and an all-time great.

But you just named 3 of the best individual on-the-ball defenders ever, maybe the 3 best (with a tip of the hat to Dennis Rodman, Gary Payton and Scottie Pippin). Jordan and Bryant were capable of shutting down their counterparts while still putting up 30 (or 50!) points, and James was/is an elite defender who could smother any position on the floor.

Those guys won a bunch of titles because for long stretches of their careers (particularly Jordan and James) they were the unquestioned best player in the NBA, dominating at both ends of the floor.

"Oh. My. Goodness."

Edit: I did some Googling, and the NBA All-Defensive team only existed for the last 5 years of Wilt Chamberlain's career. He was 1st team his last two seasons. Curiously, he wasn't 1st or 2nd team the 3 seasons before that, but it's fair to say he would have made more than 2 All-Defensive teams if it existed his entire career.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Wilt was an amazing athlete for his time, we will probably never see some one like him again. His biggest flaw is he didnt want to play the villain. Look at GS they are the villains but what has Steph or Klay ever done to deserve that? In the finals against Reedx Wilt went easy on him because he was coming off of injury. Russel would have brought a shovel to bury Reed.

Wilt was getting hounded for not passing enough, so he led the league in assists the next year. You talk about defense, Wilt never fouled out of a game in his career, yet was a great defender. Wilt was a tank and averaged 48.5 minutes per game one season. He was probably tired by the finals.

Sounding like everything is going well with Feaster! Hopefully it's not because it's his first Visit.

Just saw Matej Sis retweet Evan Watkins' tweet saying that he really liked how VT was sitting with him. I fully believe that we will have a really good season if we add him. A four year contributor from *arguably* the best program of the past several seasons is a guy I really want and think he brings more to the table than just his talent. I personally don't have a problem calling him a short term program changer.

I want badly. Can pound and catch. Gimme gimme gimme.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Love the idea of Feaster, mostly b.c I thought we were going to miss the little things Peoples did well. For those that know football, is it easy for RB's to change systems, and get up to speed quickly (pun intended)?

Hokie fan | W&M grad

Lots of people saying that VT and Clemson have a similar system and it should be easy for him to pick up. See other true freshman getting carries in Fuentes, system I don't think it should be a problem

Recruit Prosim

Nice, thanks!

Hokie fan | W&M grad

Without divulging any details, they thought the visit went extremely well. He may visit some other schools, but we definitely sold him our program.

Recruit Prosim

I like the positive news. Has he already visited South Carolina? I'm hoping we were after USCe.

Any idea on timeline?

No we are the only place he has visited and I believe he has not scheduled any other visits yet

Recruit Prosim

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Jalin Hyatt going to have that 99 Speed in NCAA Football 2020.

Hyatt's was the fastest of any player at the opening.

Recruit Prosim

Hopefully he's gotten something to eat by now.

Helps him run faster

Recruit Prosim

I really don't know much about Feaster, would he be an upgrade from Steven People's? Would Feaster be a 20-25 touch/game kind of back?

Love Peoples, but Feaster is on a different level

Recruit Prosim

We haven't had a game breaking RB since David Wilson. Feaster would be one.

Yes. Closest thing to rmfw that I've seen.

I'm excited about Feaster because I think that he can contribute, but more importantly, I think he can teach Keshawn King a lot about playing RB at this level.

Sales Pitch to Feaster: we are the best place to improve your NFL draft stock:
1) very young competition (almost a lock to start)
2) improved O-line to block for you
3) wont key only on you (other weapons)
4) schedule will provide opportunity for big stats
5) if he joins - great chance to play his former team in conference championship and show them what they missed!

South Carolina's Sales Pitch:



youre way under selling the size of the bag he would get. O_o

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

youre way under selling the size of the bag he would get.

Not if the USCe Bagmen see this thread and realize the former 5 star is not as good as current 3 stars. If they knew his YPC last year compared to Etienne, how could they go higher than 30K?

I also think that Feaster could have the potential to improve our pitch to elite RB recruits. If he chooses VT and is given a bellcow role, Fuente and staff can hit the trail and show recruits with an example that we're willing to give elite talent the lion's share of the work.

It is a double edged sword

Recruit Prosim

don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game

I just don't want Fuente to decide he's still super into rotating backs, kill this kids draft stock, and give everyone a HUGE reason not to come play here

Recruit Prosim

Obviously there's no way of me knowing this to be fact, but I'd have a hard time believing that if Feaster chooses VT that he wasn't outright told that he's going to get the lion's share of the carries this season. If Fuente then decides to rotate backs, then we really do have a huge issue because he misled a top talent by selling him into a situation he didn't fulfill. I might be misinterpreting the intent of your comment(s) but it's coming across to me like you'd rather us not get him because you're afraid of how we might misuse him and how it would affect the recruiting trail whereas we're clearly not killing it in RB recruiting to begin with, so why not take that chance? I fully understand the possibility exists that Fuente could screw the situation up but honestly how much worse could the state of our RB recruiting get?

I understand that Feaster was extremely highly rated as a recruit and he's most likely a talent upgrade over our current RB options, but you'd think he was the second coming of Adrian Peterson the way he's being talked about around here. Yes he was part of an explosive offense and has made some big plays in his career, but Feaster averaged 1.5 yards less per carry than any other Clemson RB last year. He had poor games against Texas A&M, Wake Forest, NC State, Florida State, BC and Duke (so many of the same teams that people say should be guaranteed wins for VT) compared to good games against Louisville and GT.

Anyway, the idea that Fuente "screwing up the situation" is more concerning to people than if Feaster is able to live up to his recruiting ranking doesn't make much sense to me. Fuente knows his job depends on results and I'm pretty damn sure he wants to win football games. So if Fuente "misled a top talent" and ends up rotating backs, I'd say it's far more likely that Feaster wasn't good enough to earn most of the carries than Fuente sabotaging the team's success.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I agree with you on this I think he would help us but I am not sure he is all that these folks think he is .
Hope I am wrong but it is worth a shot we do have the ship to give and it does appear this is one of the weaker
spots of the team

Coastal 1

I agree he should prioritize winning..... but also perception is important. The whole country believes Feaster is a top talent. If he doesn't succeed here, the narrative will be that it is our fault, right or wrong.

Recruit Prosim

Is that the narrative for why he didn't succeed at Clemson?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Ha. I thought he was successful. He just happened to pick the most talented program in the country (arguably). The statement that if he isn't successful that it will take over as a negative narrative for vt is ridiculous and kind of an interesting first take.

What's the narrative if he is wildly successful? Why is him transferring some indicator that he hasn't been successful. He got passed by a great player (Etienne) and Rb "success" has a wide range of variables. Recruiting over good players happens all the time and doesn't make a good player not good, it just makes the better player better.

In the time Fuente has been here I've heard complaints about lack of access to players or practice, his low key demeanor and his conservative play-calling.... I have never heard that he's oversold a player's opportunity for playing time or starting role. I doubt if he would start that now.

My bet is Feaster walked out with a realistic view and no absolute guarantees. Players that appreciate that approach seem to be the ones that thrive in our system.

Totally agree. Any coach worth any salt at all isn't making guarantees beyond the explanation of the situation and opportunity

A LOT of coaches would leave you disappointed then

Gobble Till You Wobble

I'm aware it exists. My comment is that I don't believe those types of people in any business - you can't cut checks you can't cash. That is not our staff's style is my point.

Thats great that you don't but when 16/17 kids hear "we want you to come in and play right away" they believe them. Coaches will fall back on "well we said we wanted you to come in and play right away, but you didn't earn it", but thats not their selling point and thats not what a kid, who is having 10 different schools time them how much they love him, hears. Most coaches are going to say what they have to say to land the recruit and worry about dealing with promises later. I guarantee Mack Brown is promising early playing time and winning at UNC, but watch how many kids bolt when they come in, don't play, and have a losing season.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Same point - I get it exists. It's also a short term deal as eventually those promises get broken.

There are a lot of players at the top schools that probably would do better other places because they are burried on the depth chart but the top players in college football. This guy could be the 4th best back in the ACC, or he could have not put in the work to be good, I have no clue. The same thing could be said about the back at FSU, Lahorn? He could be one of the best backs in the ACC but Akers is just better.

Matt Cassell didn't succeed in college, but he had an okay NFL career.

No. They have national championships.

Recruit Prosim

Ok but how did he personally do? This isn't about how the team did but the player.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

He's been good, but Etienne has been better. There is no other narrative.

Tavien Feaster's career 6.0 YPC for 222 carries across 3 years has been bested only once in a single season by a starting or second-string Hokie RB since 2005 (David Wilson, 6.1 YPC, 2011).

His worst single-season YPC of 5.6 on 78 carries is matched or beaten only 3 times since 2005 (Wilson in 2011, Williams in 09 with 5.6 as well, Evans with 5.9 in 2010). Feaster actually had a better YPC with more carries in 2017 (6.3). The vast majority of starting or second string VT RB's have averaged at least a full 0.5 YPC less since 2005.

For comparison, Travis Etienne, who is playing in front of Feaster, has put up 7.2 and 8.1 YPC in his two seasons and is arguably the best RB in college football.

2005 was as far back as ESPN stats would go, hence that cutoff.

Didn't succeed as in won a national championship

I kind of doubt the average fan has any idea who he is. For example, I'd consider myself a big college football fan but I didn't know Josh Jacobs until this past season. If you point out his original recruiting ranking then it will raise people's expectations, but he's closer to an unknown than a superstar.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

If it helps, once Feaster goes somewhere else fans will say he's not that good and the backs on the roster are better than him.

"He's redundant to McClease."

I think there are some intangibles that Feaster could provide in addition to the positive perception he would bring to RB recruiting at Tech. The fact that he just played with (arguably) the best program in college football for 4 years cannot be overlooked. Once you're in a culture like that, the bar is set in terms of expectations. Since he's transferring to utilize his grad year and showcase himself, I would hope we can assume he was pretty well assimilated to the culture at Clemson. When a guy like that joins a new program, with dreams of the NFL, it's likely that they continue preparing the way they're trained to. He has seen and worked with championship effort. If he comes here I imagine there are two scenarios:

1.) He brings that effort every day and people will recognize and try to emulate how hard he is working, thus raising the level of competition through leadership by example.
2.) He saw that we have the type of culture that can make him better, which is a positive sign that CJF has us on the right path if he feels that way relative to what he knew at Clemson.

Just my two cents, but proven winners that understand championship culture coming in provides more to a program than just their talent.

The biggest factor to me is this , we have had 2 guys leave and have a scholly available right now
he could get that but we still get the ship back for recruiting next year . We aren't likely to find
anyone this late that could help us for 1 year next year this late in the year. We get a mature guy
at a spot we are less than stellar at that could make a difference with almost no risk for this season
and that is worth it no question

Coastal 1

So if Fuente "misled a top talent" and ends up rotating backs, I'd say it's far more likely that Feaster wasn't good enough to earn most of the carries than Fuente sabotaging the team's success.

Well said and is absolutely a realistic possibility. As far as being "the second coming of Adrian Peterson", why is it so bad that people on this site would be excited about the potential to get the most talented RB to don a Hokie jersey in 8 years? I mean, if we can't get excited about a top 50 player in his respective recruiting class who has experience making large contributions to multiple national championships at one of the nation's best programs then what can we get hyped about?

Exactly. And to add, he is by far the best available running back and would, at the VERY least, be an immediate impact. He would fill the void of a much needed quality running back; the missing piece to us have a good offense. I would be pumped af to land this guy.

It is a great match for him and VT . He comes play uses a schooly that has opened up we still get to recruit for that spot next year. He is coming to play for a offense that could be primed to hit its stride with outside receiver threats improving OL and experience QB ect . He also if he is the best we have will have and opportunity to put up huge numbers because our schedule is filled with teams without top defenses and probably below average teams anyway . The funny one is would he even consider USCE I mean they got shutout against UVA in the bowl and will get hammered against in the SEC and Clemson . Not saying it is match made in heaven but pretty close .
Him going to play for USCE makes no since at all. If he is very good VT O could be lights out good with really good numbers he would give VT a dynamic back something we have been lacking he gets the numbers and headlines that gets him his shot at the NFL

Coastal 1

I think this is my biggest question around Feaster.

He hasn't been that huge of a contributor in my eyes, looks like from 2016-2018, he has around 1300 yards rushing in 3 years. So that's not much utilization.


Seems a lot of the hype is that he was a 5 star recruit, and I'm not sure you can solidly rely on that at this point, since he isn't the same guy as he was in high school.

Also, have to look at his supporting cast at Clemson.

For reference, here is the guy who beat him out for the starting position:


I mean, I'd love to have him at VT for a few reasons, I'm just a little hesitant about the hype and trying to look at it from a different direction. He could be immediate and blow it up, or could end up down our depth chart.

I mean he's split carries with Travis every significant year at Clemson. Played a support role this year. And his freshman year he was behind Gallman who was a 1k back....

If you look at the year where ETN and Feaster got the same number of carries there's only 100 yards and 1ypc separating them and a big part of there strategy that year was putting ETN in late in games and having his fresh legs absolutely carve tired defense.

(add if applicable) /s

Looking at it another way...He only has like 220 carries over his collegiate career. He hasn't been beaten down, and is still fresh as a back. He can come in and tear up the league, and could get to the NFL with fewer carries on his body. Considering the shelf life of a running back, this might actually be a good thing, assuming he still has the ability and talent that he was thought to have out of high school. I'd rather take a super talented back with lower numbers due to fewer carries, than a proven guy who is worn down (like the Alabama backs usually end up being).

I get it, I'm just saying that's a big if.

We have seen other 5 star guys not pan out in college, so I'm just hesitant to rely on a rating from 3 years ago.

I'll just paste Phantom's comment down here, cause I feel like it fits into this convo well. It puts in perspective his numbers.

Tavien Feaster's career 6.0 YPC for 222 carries across 3 years has been bested only once in a single season by a starting or second-string Hokie RB since 2005 (David Wilson, 6.1 YPC, 2011).

His worst single-season YPC of 5.6 on 78 carries is matched or beaten only 3 times since 2005 (Wilson in 2011, Williams in 09 with 5.6 as well, Evans with 5.9 in 2010). Feaster actually had a better YPC with more carries in 2017 (6.3). The vast majority of starting or second string VT RB's have averaged at least a full 0.5 YPC less since 2005.

For comparison, Travis Etienne, who is playing in front of Feaster, has put up 7.2 and 8.1 YPC in his two seasons and is arguably the best RB in college football.

2005 was as far back as ESPN stats would go, hence that cutoff.

(add if applicable) /s

One could also point out that Adam Choice averaged 7.1 ypc on a similar number of carries for Clemson last season. I'll let you look up where he was drafted.

Feaster could blow up this year and I hope we get him but every back excelled in Clemson's offense, including lower rated players and a true freshman. I think it's reasonable to consider closer to an unknown than a underutilized superstar.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Sooooo we bitch nonstop on here about not getting the 4-5 star recruits and being stuck with 3 stars we have to develop, but when those same 5 star players want to transfer here, we all the sudden are cool not getting them?

Gobble Till You Wobble

We need a back that is built for a season of pounding. People's was built to take a pounding, but was limited in talent. This guy is built to play all year, something we have lacked for a while. I think he is just what we need until we can get some talent tjat can withstand a full uear of pounding the rock.

I'm going to disagree with you right there. There are very few backs that get high numbers of carries every game anymore. Saquon Barkley's production went down by 0.5 ypc when he averaged 3 more carries per game as a soph. I know that doesn't sound like much, but that was 136 yards. To be effective today, you really need 2 apbs who can run, catch and block. Flogging on guy 25-30 times a game doesn't work anymore.

In 2015 Fournette had 25 carries per game. In 2016 Dalvin Cook had just over 22. In 2018 Jonathan Taylor had just under 24 touches per game. A lot of good backs are still getting their touches.

Recruit Prosim

As I said, very few backs. Giving a guy a break at the right time makes perfect sense. The problem is we haven't had similar backs in such a long time where we don't lose something and the game plan has to be specially tweaked for the different backs.

With the seasons being longer, the beating a guy takes is ridiculous compared to, say, Suggs and Jones. We could effectively substitute them and maintain continuity. (Of course, our offense was way vanilla then.)

I hate when we have backs that allow the D to key on their style of play. Until we get multiple guys that present multiple problems to a D, there will continue to be a conversation about "Beamer did this, Fuente sucks" for RBs.

I'm pretty sure those are great backs and the creme de la creme. The statistical outliers.

In the last 15 years we've produced runningbacks that we're drafted 30th, 32nd, and 38th overall in the draft. That's crazy for that position. We should be going after great backs.

Recruit Prosim

Different offense, Different times. We're having to resell the position at Tech because of how abysmal our running game has been since 2012. We haven't been able to make the transition to the modern running game since Beamer tried to overhaul the way we run the offense that season and anyone recruiting a running back against us is going to use those stats effectively. Pitching to modern day recruits that we used to load the team up on Ryan Williams and David Wilson's backs, put them behind a fullback and 2 tight ends, and let them carry us is not going to be an effective sales pitch. I know the running game has struggled for a ton of different reasons, but it's probably going to take us showing we are capable of having an effective one before an elite back signs up for our offense.

*Disclaimer: King is a 4 star back that had big time offers so it's not like we aren't bringing in talent there.

Gobble Till You Wobble

I don't think it's fair to put it on Beamer when he had a 1000 yard rusher his last season.

Recruit Prosim

I'm not putting anything on anyone. 2012 was just the year we really tried to change from a team that would line up in a traditional 2 tight end set or i-formation with a fullback with an offense centered around a power run game to a more modern spread offense. And yes i know we had an 1000 yard rusher with McMillan that year, but in my opinion our running game still wasn't overly effective/effecient that year. Also, only being able to point out one year in the last 7 seasons that we had even relative success running the ball kinda proves my point and thats just ignoring how terrible 2014, 2013, and 2012 was for us trying to establish a running game.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Yes we did and none of them averaged 25+ yards per carry. Only Ryan William's was above 21 CPG (22.5) for a season. Since 1999 (as far back as I looked) not a single back for VT had multiple years at 20+ cpg. Jones was a multi year starter, Ore was a multi year starter. We've had amazing backs at VT. But we they weren't the 25-30 carries mentioned above.

Shortly after I originally posted I went back and added, "Feaster could blow up this year and I hope we get him." Still at the NCAA level, he's been a 3 year high-level change of pace back rather than a 5 star workhorse stud. Also I'm pretty sure most would lump me into the "Fuente apologist" camp well before the "bitch nonstop about not getting 4-5 star recruit" camp. But I would agree there are some people that seemingly will never be happy and I understand that gets old quickly.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Yea i know. That whole comment wasn't directed specifically for you. The guy is a legit talent that got stuck behind probably the best running back in college football. That would almost be like calling David Wilson a "change of pace back" had he transferred post sophomore year after being stuck behind Ryan Williams for 2 years. Also while he might not be the prototypical back everyone sees for our offense (i personally think he's a great fit), to act like he wouldn't fill a huge void for us just isn't being realistic. With that said, i think King has a chance to develop into a great all around back, but bridging the gap to when he's ready with Clemson's back up is fine by me.

Gobble Till You Wobble

I think after 3 years, its hard to still consider someone a 5 star recruit. A lot can happen in 3 years, and I can't base the hype off what he did in high school when he has been in college for a decent length of time.

Also, we aren't talking about a guy putting up the stats he did on a crap team. He got that YPC with a hell of a good offensive line and overall great offense.

You don't have to base it off his high school film. Here are some videos of his play at Clemson. I am specifically choosing not to embed these to save on load time for the page.

Tavien Feaster Best Plays 2017

Tavien Feaster Best Plays 2018

Lots of examples in these videos of him making the first man miss or running through contact. These have been by far the biggest complaints, and part of debates about the running game during Fuente's tenure.

I watch most Clemson games whether I want to or not, so I am personally not basing my judgement off highlight tapes. I watched him play in probably about 85-90% of his career games at Clemson and I think he is comfortably better than any back we have on the roster and would be a huge addition to our running game.

Sure, but his other averages were 4.9, 3.5, and 4.4 in the same offense, all with a similar level of 50-70 carries - 2018 is an outlier for him.

Tavien Feaster has consistently produced at the same level across all three of his years at Clemson. He's as close to a known commodity as you're going to get for someone who hasn't actually been given 200+ carries in a single season in Power 5 NCAA football. At the very worst, even if we kept the RB rotation and he only got 100-something carries he would be the best RB we've had in years by a large margin.

2018 is an outlier for all Clemson backs. RMFW or DW would have had similar numbers (to Etienne) with Clemson's team playing against that absolutely garbage schedule.

However, overall, it's clear we are in complete agreement that Tavien Feaster is a quality running back and would be a great addition.

Love it.

But, seriously:

How many times do I have to suffer through (gag) Virginia Tech University ???

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Just completely glossed over "hookies"?

Click here to destroy wall.

Seriously, Druck? Still fuming over such a minor detail? We all need to get over those things, because technically, we are just that, right? If the kid is still saying that after he's enrolled and gone through a round of practices, then I can see being irritated, but as said, "hookies" is more of a miss at this point, and I can't even get any irritation worked up over that. Guess life's just beating me down these days or something, I don't know.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Yeah, I'm so over getting upset about VT University. I get it, its not the legal name, but whatever. The kids are excited about getting a look/offer and bragging about VT.

As I get older, I start to realize there are bigger things to get upset and stress out about...

As I get older, I start to realize there are bigger things to get upset and stress out about...

Yeah, like the importance of Mayo

well, mayo is still important, as I need it to help moisten and lube up whatever is on the sandwich so I don't choke. Granted, I sometimes use mustard or some of those specialty sauces.

And the proper way to eat cucumbers.

#gohookies? Yikes


You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Currently rated a Strong-Side DE. Good length (6-6) but will need some Hil-gains at only 246 lbs

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

That's massive for a DE coming to VT, are you sure he's not a DT for us?

EDIT: nevermind, I see it's as an OT, I should read more next time

Yeah we may have another "Gravedigger" on our hands...he started off at DE, but eventually moved inside to DT...I think he was about 6'5 or 6'6 as well...Tennessee could not block him in that bowl game...


Sounds like a QB to me

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

so that makes his moms like 6' then?

Looks like matt seresen from friday night lights

Danny is always open
23 can't read

Seen this kid play several times, heard he's a great kid but playing in the Acc is a BIG stretch. 0% chance he plays QB at the D1 level. He's not accurate and he can't move. He's not physical enough to play DE. Hope it works out for him but if I was a betting man he will end up as a PWO at unc. Pretty sure his dad played there.

Offered as a TE

His career might get Logan Thomas-esque

Recruited as a tight end, plays QB, really good at QB, ends up playing QB on a team that needs it (UNC).

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

ends up playing QB on a team that needs it (UNC)

I'm not sure if your post is tongue in cheek or not, but if the latter, UNC

  • Signed Sam Howell, .958 4*, #3 dual threat QB in 2019, and
  • has a 2020 commitment from Malik Hornsby, .939 4*, #5 dual threat QB.

Given we're signing Knox and Noah Kim, I'd happily take their future situation at QB

I agree with you, though I am more optimistic about Knox. He's still growing and he played high quality HS football against a lot of D1/P5 competition. Georgia HS football is miles better than NC's. I can't weigh on the quality Hornsby faces because Texas is so big and has so many districts/divisions, but I assume he is playing against a lot of high quality competition as well.

Obligatory Mac Brown is super duper old and UNC will do nothing with the talent.

Over/Under on when he enters transfer portal if he actually enrolls?

They'll have 6 QBs on the roster next year. One of them has to work out at TE.

It was definitely tongue in cheek

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

This guy is the nephew of a close friend of mine. Bud Foster went to his school to recruit him. it was cool... his family has big UNC ties though.

โ€œI hope that theyโ€™re not going to have big eyes and pee down their legs so to speak,โ€ -- Bud Foster

Bud's recruiting him? 6-8? DE prospect?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

If he is a DE at that height, then that sounds Ted Hendricks-esque. If he were only half as good........

I mean he made a 6'6" guy MLB and he became a 1st round draft pick, so yeah. We'll see how it goes

Anybody know who will be at the BBQ this coming weekend?

I can compile a list on here, if people post the names

2020 3*DE Stephen Sings
2021 4* DE Naquan Brown
2021 4* WR Jayden Thomas
2021 4* RB Brandon Campbell
2021 UR ATH Myles Alston
2022 UR RB Caper Stokes

I have some good sauces that will be there. And Justin Fuente probably.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

some good sauces


It's an unwritten law that it's my lunch pail. I've issued the challenge. If someone outworks me, they can get it.
Darryl Tapp

But is Justin Fuente bringing his (grandfather's) sauces?

ESPN article

Spanish Jack's

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I think this happened last month.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This happened almost a month ago. Way to stay on top of things RTD!

Is this a DeJuan Ellis we might get back into it type of deal?

Doubt it

I thought this had already happened.

Looked it up, and he decommitted May 8th. Not sure why Richmond Times-Dispatch is just now reporting, unless it was an old article or something.

Edit: He also picked up a Michigan offer at the beginning of June.

As a TE I thought i read?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I heard it went well. Not sure how reliable the source is though--got it 3rd-hand through my dad who knows people who are reasonably well connected. Also heard he flew to Texas right after.

It went very well.

Is there a time frame on when he'll announce?

Mid June at the earliest. He's taking summer classes so he can graduate and get immediately eligibility wherever he chooses to go.

Doesn't graduate until August I believe. Doesn't prevent him from picking where he wants to go though. The earlier the better for him so he can sign his grant in aid and officially be a part of the program. Timeframe depends on whether or not he takes more visits, but I doubt it goes past next weekend.

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

Well, next weekend has passed. Discussion about him has died off. Any news on your end?

Any word on Brock Hoffman's appeal? It's been about a month since he got denied. If we can have a solid line and get Feaster, I don't think people understand how much having a legit running game can open up the offense. I think that's been our big issue the past couple years. No one has really had to respect our running game, so any RPO or play action type plays are a struggle.

Gobble Till You Wobble

hassan "chief-malik" borders the #1 athlete of 21 recieved an offer from VT last week. 6"4" 228 plays EVERYWHERE on the field right now WR/LB/DE under armour all american. from powder springs, GA (orginally from chicago moved to ATL for football.


Had a chance to speak with him at GT camp on sunday. (he wasnt participating) (pretty much an offer from everyone)

but heres some of his quotes about recieving a VT offer;

hassan: "i really like VT, they called me like early early in the AM i was still asleep haha, i was like *in a sleepy voice* hey whats up coach, rubbing sleep out of my eyes and they offered and i was really excited, its one ive been hoping for. we talked for a good little bit. ive got to get up there they said so im going to try and get up there soon."

seeing him i thought forusre they were recruiting him for WR first thing i told him was how we use our big WRs and what a commodedy he would be for VT the kid is LONG and LENGTHY. looks like a justin harper x3 to me. but.....

hassan: "yeah they want me to come in and play LB right away, they like that i can cover, put my hand in the dirt and rush the passer, and my skills in space and how versitile i am, ive gotta get up there for a vist but yeah i really really like them and was excited about their offer", said i have alot of the same skill sets as tremaine and some more that he didnt have because im a little ahead of where he was when he got to VT" which im fine with i play DE and LB now and i love playing it. I have people recruiting me for all kinds of positions but im just trying to make it ill play whatever position is best for me at the best place for me so i can make it." i know about the edmunds bros so thats pretty cool to be compared to tremaine."

hes gotten 20 offers in the last few days. kids the real deal. id love to get him on campus. hopefully we can. but one thing i can say is this kid is an amazing kid. humble beyond words.

just thought id share. sorry for the crappy formating.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Its settled then...

Tavien Feaster will transfer to Virginia Tech and become the feature back we have been waiting for.

Agreed. Please set up the Tavien Feaster commitment countdown thread.

The LewDew, Professional Golf Bum

It's settled then...

2021 is our year!

what a joke!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

3*, 0.8516 on 247. Class of '20 from Matthews, N.C.
offers from A&M and WVU most recently

Thanks. I felt pretty idiotic trying to figure out how to embed a 247 profile on a TKP post.

Interesting, 6 of his 9 are in the ACC.


He's mostly a regional recruit. That's pretty common. The fact that 4/6 of the ACC teams are coastal coupled with ODU and ECU being on there (not to be mean) shows his approximate talent level. Plus Frost at Nebraska sends offers out to everyone everywhere

Recruit Prosim

That's just his first 9 offers, he is class of 21 so he has time

He does. And he could be a late bloomer. But right now he doesn't have a ton of national interest

Recruit Prosim

Andy Bitter had a great response about in-state recruiting in his mailbag on the Athletic (Here's the link but it's behind a paywall so I'm only going to quote the following):

If Tech can get back to that level โ€” playing on the big stage and in significant postseason games โ€” I think it'd make the Hokies a lot more palatable for top-tier in-state guys. Right now, schools such as Clemson, Notre Dame, Penn State and Ohio State โ€” routine poachers in the state โ€” can offer that. The Hokies simply can offer a chance to lead the effort to get back to that. That's a big difference. It's easier to sell what is happening as opposed to what might happen.

The Hokies won a lot of games in the '90s, relying heavily on overlooked prospects from all over. In the end, Tech's bread and butter is going to be developing less-heralded recruits over the course of several years as a supplement to the handful of top-tier guys it does land. That's always been the Hokies' way. Win a bit more with that formula, and it might make Virginia Tech more of an "it" school for top in-state talent again.

Get that logic out of here

Haha, I do agree with him though. I've always viewed Virginia Tech football to be more Oakland A's than New York Yankees. We have a history of turning three stars into superstars, I'd rather the coaching staff go after guys that make sense for us than the Mike London approach of putting all of our eggs into the five star basket.

mike london landing five stars wasn't their problem, mike london being a shitty coach was the problem

Part of Mike London being a shitty coach was over recruiting 3-4 prospects and half-assing the other 20 guys that make up a recruiting class.

His breakdown of recruiting in the state for its top 10 talent was great. Beamer didn't usually get majority of top 10 and too many guys that were ended up as busts.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Agree, I actually have my subscription for hockey, but was very pleased when he moved over with his solid Hokies content. Great stuff.

the issue is simple. times have just changed. this is a different generation where gradification is needed right away. with the transfer portal how many of those kids would have stayed around in the 90s to develop and "wait their turn". to win now you need guys that can, and WILL play right away because if they arent they will bounce before they ever get the change to be a part of a VT time like there was back in the 90s and you cant sell a kid "hey come here work your AHHH off and be a part of something special in a few years" even 3 stars think they are goats and want play right away.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I'm skeptical that what worked in the 90s before the internet made scouting and recruiting easier will work now.

this x1000

there are not nearly as many "hidden gems" as there once was

The actual techniques used in the 90s to find inefficiencies in the recruiting market are probably obsolete. But it's ridiculous to assume there are not arbitrage opportunities still out there. There will always be kids like Carson Wentz that fall through the cracks.

We don't have the resources of Alabama or Clemson to drop bags and bring in 15+ 4-5 star kids. What we can do is continue to unearth the three star guys that turn into the next Kyle Fuller or Tremaine Edmunds.

He's right but nothing really ground breaking with this though. It's exactly what we have always been saying since 99, at least.

Is the BBQ still on for this weekend? Anybody know who will be there?

Hope they bring some pool floaties if they are cause it's gon rain

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Not a good look for FSU coaches

Cromartie's got 14 kids to spend time with if he wants to help someone. Just saying.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

His own team, if you will.

They could probably beat the Redskins too.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

He can't remember their names. I think he'd prefer helping the football team becuase those kids have their names on their shirts. This video gets crazy in the last 45 seconds...wait for it!


He literally just tweeted he got offered.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Jack Dawson probably feels like he's

The King Of The World

2020 3* DE

Our top 2020 TE target Matthew Hibner committed to Michigan.

Another huge loss that we had every reason to win and for one reason or another let it slip away. This class is on life support

Care to expand? Based on his offer quick unofficial and commitment on that visit the kid was looking for something besides Tech. So what did the coaches do to turn him away?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

We were his first "big" offer and his sister is currently a freshman at VT, so he is very familiar with the school and staff. We had a chance to lock him up on his visit a few weeks ago, but we couldn't close the deal and he gained some good offers and committed to Michigan.

that seems less like "let him slip away [because they didn't do xyz] " and more like "couldn't get him to commit early[because we were his first offer and he wanted to see what other offers were coming]"

I don't know what Michigan's TE depth chart looks like but he would be working his way up ours for a couple of years.

Does it really make a difference though? Either way, we had some unique advantages that other schools did not, and we lost him.

And he would've had a pretty quick path the field. We're looking for our H of the future for life after Keene. He would've learned for a year behind Dalton and then slid into a starting role in his sophomore year, assuming he progressed well enough. And before anyone says any differently, Mitchell and Gallo are both true TE's rather than H backs.

Even if he would have committed he wouldn't be "locked up". Long time until signing day. Maybe everybody would feel better temporarily.

Sure, maybe I should have said "landed him".

What's your best guesstimate for this class? Do you think we even sniff a top 30? Top 50?

I suppose there's still time but I'd love to see the mental gymnastics a certain crowd will have to perform if we don't break top 50 in year 4 to justify to themselves that Justin Fuente is still the next Dabo....

Edit: Lol and like clockwork the leader of that crowd already beat me to it above with the "there's nothing we could do" spiel.

Really because I didn't say anything like that at all, in fact I actually asked what the coaches did wrong. Damn people who just want to blame the shortfalls of Tech football on Fuente sure do like to read into things.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

LAHokie said we let this one slip away, you jumped in with "the kid must have been looking for something else, what did the coaches do wrong?"

....well, in LAHokie's estimation, letting this one slip away is what they did wrong

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I feel like people are reading this entirely different than it was written.

I believe Fireman made an observation that the kid took an unofficial and made a quick commitment that makes him believe that the kid was not interested in tech. Does anyone know specifically what the coaches did that could have possibly pushed him away

(add if applicable) /s

I get that I'm not a great writer but that seemed pretty clear.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I thought so too but based on the comments afterwards I'm guess more people read it like:

'This kid wanted to go somewhere else what were the coaches supposed to do'

(add if applicable) /s

Also sorry for the downvotes you are going to incur from my "fan base"

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

And i'm just pointing out that "the coaches let this slip away" doesn't really imply that they actively did something to turn the croot away from the program. Just seems that every time we don't close on a recruit we're after and someone comments on the recruiters, there's a relatively small but loud portion of the community here that turns it into something along the lines of "you have no proof our coaches did anything wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

This kid wasn't some 4/5 star pie in the sky that I'm not sure why people thought was a lock to Tech. He was a relatively close kid with a rating about what Tech should get in. Some I'm truly wondering what Tech did or didn't do that turned him off and so clearly uninterested.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

fair enough

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I personally don't buy that he'll be a great player but a lot of people believe this kid will end up a 4*... I mean obviously Michigan being interested in him is a sign that he's underrated at least to some degree.

And I don't think you understand that it's not about what our coaches did to push him away, it's about what they don't do to lock him up.

Recruit Prosim

It's not about pushing people away. Nobody is that bad they're pushing people away. It's that our staff isnt good at closing the deal

Recruit Prosim

Odd hill to die on, but you do you.

I'd be pretty surprised if we were top 30, just because of how small this class will be (I'd bet 15 or so). Regardless, class ranking isn't as important to me as average ranking of our recruits. Even with the smaller class, I'd be very surprised if our average ranking isn't the lowest of fuente's tenure (not counting the class he split with Beamer)

Early signing is December...

We are currently paying the price for a 6-7 record and the player attrition/blood-letting of last season.

The bad news: maybe this class WILL be a little down this year.

The good news, we have 75% of our scholarship athletes as underclassmen...

My hope: we get Bud signed, we win 10 games, we are able to "flip" a few players before early signing and we are off and running...

100% that's the best outcome we can hope for. Thankfully this year's class won't have much if any effect on next season. We'll return almost everyone in the two deep if no one goes pro. Unfortunately with last season our perception has gone from "pretty good tech team" back to "that same Virginia Tech from 2012-2015". To recruits now that is our identity, only wins will change it. I don't think Fuente was prepared at all for the drop off that occurred last year, that being said the job of building a dynasty can still be done. If we win 10 games and get some recruiting momentum we can give Fuente one of Bud's free passes and act like it never happened.

We're paying the price of having a G5 coach that built a wall around the program and has the personality of Kawhi Leonard.

Recruit Prosim

Straight up awful. We NEED to generate some excitement this season or we're going to slip down a while that I don't think our resources will be able to dig us out of

Recruit Prosim

TKP should be fun....here's a question that might make you smile - it's Monday for the love of all that is good!
- Did he commit 800% to Michigan?


What is going on here? I know a lot of folks were saying that Fuente didn't get the usual recruiting bump for being a new coach (our recruiting basically the same as Beamer's) but now it's starting to look like those first few years were the recruiting bump and now we are seeing the reality of not bringing in coaches that are also good recruiters.

Twitter from this weekend seemed decent. Biggest new is the recruits are big on the Orange, Orange, Maroon Helmet rig which I know will just go great here.

(add if applicable) /s

Hot take: that's a badass combo.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

No cool throne here.

Vroom Vroom

If anyone can link in the picture of our white on white with the chrome orange helmets and the white on white with the maroon helmet/white facemask, that would be appreciated. Saw recruits with both of those on twitter this past weekend somewhere and both of them made me feel some type of way.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Combo is okay, but hate hate HATE the shorts.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I'm digging the new football shorts.

Edit: Perfect timing for comment above. The shorts thing are just for the pictures. New rules you have to have knee pads I believe.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

So that kid puts us as his profile pic which is promptly followed up by a pinned tweet showing a "Top 8 Schools" list that doesn't include us. I need a break from CFB recruiting...

Gobble Till You Wobble

His recruiting has recently blown up and he will likely get a substantial ratings bump. It seems we were late to party on him so I'm not surprised if we aren't in serious contention. If I had to guess I think he will be SEC bound. He's definitely the type of guy I hope we can get it on early in the future, because he seems like a future thumper at Mike.

All is not lost

Really need to land a few of our big targets (Antwaun Powell, Marvin Scott III, Keandre Lambert, etc.) to salvage some momentum in this class. We are on plan C, D, E with too many important positions right now.

Based on what Fuente told me in our conversation with regards to the small class size, I wonder if he is struggling to balance numbers with pursuit on the trail. Better said, the former is mucking up the latter. It's easy enough to get aggressive and accept commitments with 20-plus open scholarships, but when the numbers are tight, it's another boundary to manage (and right now it's a struggle).

This definitely makes sense. When you have a small class the importance of quality over quantity increases substantially. Balancing the numbers while not sacrificing the pursuit of our top targets effectively is a tension this staff will have to figure out how to manage more effectively. It unfortunately is starting to feel more and more like this may be a bit of a throwaway year on the trail, but there is still too much time left to lose all hope.

Perception-wise, it's a really bad look if they don't land Lambert and Powell. Those are the kids you get committed early to help you build out the rest of the class. This cycle is when recruiting under Fuente should be peaking, not waning.

I couldn't agree more with this. It's very unlikely that Lambert will be a take for his favored Clemson, they have 3-4 guys (at least) ahead of him priority wise and just added another in Ajou Ajou that is going to be a likely late riser. So that puts us back in the driver's seat and we can't afford to lose another top guy to a PSU or similar program who comes in later.

Powell is an even more important situation. We desperately need to revamp and retool our DL and he is a potential game changing DE, who perfectly fits what Bud Foster wants in his DE's. He is beyond any doubt our priority number one target.

Lambert worries me. If he doesn't get the Clemson offer, I think he's looking for a new #1 choice, not a new #2 choice, if you understand what I'm saying.

Recruit Prosim

I feel the same way right now, which is why I think this staff needs to pull out all the stops to sell him on VT. It will be a good opportunity to see if this staff can close on a guy who seems to be looking for any reason not to end up at his "safety" school.

Nah its cool, 2021's our year

Counter argument- you have more resources to devote to each individual recruit (time, money, attention etc).

Not really, you still have to recruit a similar number of bodies, there's just a smaller bucket.

At this point, we are looking for anyone that can fog a mirror.

I have some eligibility left...

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I just wanted to put out these are a lot of the 'BIG TIME' misses we had over the last couple of years.

2015 Brandon Polk Penn State 4 2 Deep 9 Catches 162 yards
2015 Felton Davis III Michigan State 3 3 Deep 31 Catches 474 yards
2015 Matthew Burrell Ohio State 4 Transfer Transferred Sam Houston
2015 Josh Sweat Florida State 5 Starter 56 Tackles 5.5 Sacks / Drafted 4th Round
2015 Jalen Dalton UNC 4 2 Deep 22 Tackles 3.5 Sacks
2015 Clelin Ferrell Clemson 4 Starter 55 Tackles 11.5 Sacks / Drafted 1st Round
2015 Shy Tuttle Tennessee 4 Starter 33 Tackles 1 Sack
2015 Darvin Taylor II Florida State 4 Medically Unable To Play Medically unable to play
2015 Ricky DeBerry Oklahoma 4 Transfer Transferred Towson
2015 Jahvoni Simmons UVA 4 Transfer Transferred Hampton University
2015 Kevin Toliver LSU 5 Starter 28 Tackles 1 interception/Undrafted Free Agent
2016 Logan Byrd UNC 3 Transfer Transferred North Greenville University
2016 Dae Williams Louisville 2 3 Deep 22 Rushes 71 Yards
2016 Tino Ellis Maryland 4 Starter 24 Tackles
2016 Dre Massey Florida 3 3 Deep 1 Catch 18 yards
2016 Grant Holloway Florida 3 Retired Retired runs Track and Field
2016 Rick Wells Florida 3 Suspended 1 Catch 6 yards
2016 Jovani Haskins Miami 3 Transfer Transferred WVU
2016 Landon Dickerson Florida State 4 Transfer Transferring
2016 Jauan Williams Florida State 4 2 Deep 2 Deep
2016 Josh Ball Florida State 4 Transfer Transferred Marshall
2016 Jay Jay McCargo UNC 3 Starter Starting Center
2016 Richard Merritt Maryland 4 Transfer Transferred Arizona Western College
2016 JohnCarlo Valentin Oklahoma 3 Transfer Transferred to Baylor
2016 Quayshon Alexander Nebraska 3 Transfer Transferring
2016 JaQuan Bailey Iowa State 3 Starter 47 Tackles
2016 Jaquan Yulee Marshall 4 *Potential Starter 23 Tackles
2016 Chase Pine Pitt 3 *Potential Starter 14 Tackles *Potential Starter
2016 Levonta Taylor Florida State 5 Starter 14 Tackles *Starter
2016 Wayne Davis Ohio State 4 Transfer Transferred JMU
2016 Myles Wolfolk UNC 3 *Potential Starter 24 Tackles
2016 Keyvone Bruton Temple 3 *Potential Starter 16 Tackles
2016 K'Von Wallace Clemson 3 Starter 52 Tackles 1 Int *Starter
2016 Scott Bracey Duke 4 2 Deep 3 Catches 27 Yards
2016 Ahmir Mitchell Rutgers 4 Dismissed Dismissed from team
2016 Jalen Elliott Notre Dame 3 Starter 67 Tackles 4 Int *Starter
2017 Alex Faniel Ole Miss 3 Buried Redshirt/Has not seen game action
2017 Khalon Laborn Florida State 5 2 Deep 1 Catch 37 Yards
2017 DJ Matthews Florida State 4 *Potential Starter 41 Catches 380 yards
2017 Tahj Capehart Maryland 3 Buried Redshirt/Has not seen game action
2017 Mekhi Becton Louisville 3 Starter Starter
2017 Marcus Minor Maryland 4 *Potential Starter 2 Deep
2017 Luiji Vilain Michigan 4 2 Deep Has not seen game action
2017 Jordan Williams Clemson 4 *Potential Starter 10 Tackles 1.5 Sacks *Projected Starter
2017 Yetur Matos Penn State 4 Starter 54 Tackles 8 Sacks
2017 Tyran Hunt Maryland 3 2 Deep 2 Deep
2017 Darnell Ewell Notre Dame 4 3 Deep 3 Deep
2017 Eric Crosby Tennessee 4 Medically Unable To Play Medically unable to play
2017 Elijah Concliffe Florida 4 2 Deep 13 Tackles
2017 Breyon Gaddy Maryland 4 Buried 6 Tackles
2017 Brandon Gaddy Maryland 3 Buried 2 Tackles
2017 Victor Dimukeje Duke 3 Starter 41 Tackles 3.5 Sacks
2017 Ellis Brooks Penn State 4 2 Deep 30 Tackles 1 Int
2017 Shaun Wade Ohio State 5 *Potential Starter 31 Tackles 3 Int
2017 Markquese Bell Maryland 4 Transfer Transfer Community College
2017 Malik Willis Auburn 3 Transfer Transferring
2017 Dazz Newsome UNC 3 Starter 44 Catches 506 Yards 2 TDS *Starter
2018 Ricky Slade Penn State 5 *Potential Starter 45 Carries 257 Yards
2018 Jamal Elliott Oregon 4 Transfer Transferred to NC Central
2018 Anthony Grant Florida State 3 Buried Redshirt
2018 Kyle Pitts Florida 4 3 Deep 3 Catches 73 yards
2018 Rasheed Walker Penn State 4 *Potential Starter Played in 4 games
2018 Nanu Asiedu Penn State 4 Medically Unable To Play Medically unable to play
2018 Jordan McFadden Clemson 3 Redshirt Redshirt
2018 KJ Henry Clemson 5 Redshirt Redshirt
2018 Alim McNeill NC State 4 *Potential Starter Redshirt
2018 Jalen Alexander Maryland 3 Redshirt Redshirt
2018 Teradja Mitchell Ohio State 4 *Potential Starter Redshirt
2018 Payton Wilson NC State 4 Redshirt Redshirt

The Jury is still out for some of the younger players, but I count really only 8 "Misses" so far:
- Josh Sweat, Clelin Ferrell, K'Von Wallace, Jalen Elliott, Mekhi Becton, Jordan Williams, Victor Dimukeje, Dazz Newsome

Sure others could have added depth, but maybe our 'recruiting' misses this/past year wont be as missed as we think....

First off, that's a lot of work, so nice.

The Jury is still out for some of the younger players, but I count really only 8 "Misses" so far:
- Josh Sweat, Clelin Ferrell, K'Von Wallace, Jalen Elliott, Mekhi Becton, Jordan Williams, Victor Dimukeje, Dazz Newsome

I don't think it's that simple to look at what these guys have done elsewhere and assume that translates directly to on-filed success at VT. The depth charts and needs are totally different. Khalon Laborn likely would have been an instant starter here, and just looking at our depth chart, many would have been major contributors based on the lack of skill on the VT roster - DJ Matthews, Matos, Tuttle, Conliffe, and a whole host of the 2018 guys - McNeil, Henry, Slade, Walker, Mitchell, Wilson...

We've had more than a handful of misses over the last few years. We're 'passing' or 'cooling' on guys that don't make a lot of sense, either, especially when you consider we seem to have no problem signing guys with no other P5 offers - Pimpleton, Glaze, Kim, etc.

I hear you, the jury is still out on some of these guys..

but what are you basing it on that they would be more productive at Virginia Tech...

Its a pretty extensive list that, so far, as I can see, has produced

  • One First Team ALL ACC player
  • One ACC Honorable Mention player

...thats it...

outoftowner's basing it on roster needs at the time they passed on us. regardless of whether they would have popped in O&M or not, there are some players who definitely would not have been "buried"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Precisely. More eloquently put than originally stated.

Meanwhile our actual team produced this:

2018 Second Team All ACC 2
2018 Third Team ALL ACC 1
2018 Honerable Mention 3
2017 First Team All ACC 4
2017 Second Team All ACC 1
2017 Third Team ALL ACC 2
2017 Honerable Mention 3
2016 First Team All ACC 1
2016 Second Team All ACC 5
2016 Third Team ALL ACC 3
2016 Honerable Mention 4

I'd also add that our defensive staff has been known to develop talent much better than most schools

A lot of these kids like like A-'s buried behind A+'s

Recruit Prosim

That is their own fault for taking the route of wanting to play with the best rather than beat the best. I would expect this issue to be diminished in the future thanks to the transfer portal. Praise portal!

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

I hear you but if you take out the 2018 class, its too early for them honestly...

Add up the 'Potential Starters' and 'Starters' you still only get 39.3% of that list.

...even if some are buried behind A+, you have to admit thats not a great success stat when 2 out of 5 of these 'big misses' have been, or potentially are, starters in the collegiate game...

right, but the "hit rate" on 3*s is way less than 40%. I'd rather have a 40% chance with a higher rated recruit than say a 25% chance with the 3* we took to fill that roster spot

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Im not really sure what argument youre making - but if you look at the list.... its full of 3, 4 and 5 stars.

I wasnt trying to throw shade at stars...

I was originally just curious, but the performance is what it is.

These werent kids that were some meh, the majority of these kids caused either minor or major meltdowns. We can throw up our arms and get pissed at the coaching staff every time we dont land a kid that we think is some stud, but just so were all on the same page, know that kid has a pretty poor chance of actually starting at the collegiate level and based on the above list, which is a decent sample size, not great, but I dont remember names well enough in the earlier years, a VERY low chance of getting All Conference recognition..

Take it for what you will.

I'm not really arguing anything -- yes there seems to be a meltdown whenever one of "our" croots goes elsewhere. It's just that maybe a 40% hit rate on that population is better than the we wound up replacing them with. The takeaway should still be a reminder that all players have a low chance of "popping" at the NCAA P5 level. But it's pretty well established that you need a lot of 4* and 5* talent on a roster to be competitive at the highest levels, and that's because the hit rate on recruits is so low.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

We can throw up our arms and get pissed at the coaching staff every time we dont land a kid that we think is some stud

It's not that we think they're a stud. It's that the coaching staff think's they're studs. That's why they are plan A or B guys. The coaching staff would also rather have them instead of plan C and D guys.

Holy shit did you put all this together?

(add if applicable) /s

If i could leg you twice for this work, I would

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Just leg his follow up comments as well!

Felton Davis led Michigan State in receiving until he tore his ACL. I'd add him to the misses.

I'd also add that many of those "missed" players were considered ours to lose.

Just because this board claims that a recruit was "ours to lose" doesn't mean thats factual. I get we hate losing recruits, but to act like we we know what some 16/17 year old kid is actually thinking is ridiculous.

Gobble Till You Wobble

A while back I went back and looked at how all of our decommittments were doing and it looked like Bryce Thompson at Tenn. was the only one I could remember being disappointed we didn't get. If anyone remembers any others let me know

Troy Pride has been starting at CB for Notre Dame. He was originally committed to us.

Dazz Newsome tried to commit very early on and we pulled back. VT later tried to get back in. It left a bad taste in his and his family's mouth. So yeah, he was ours to lose.

Cool? Thats a story for one guy, but we like to generally claim that essentially every recruit from NC or Virginia that was ever considering us was "ours to lose" which is dumb.

Gobble Till You Wobble

If you want to use "crystal balls" as a metric, most of those we missed on at one point or another were 100% to VT. I assume those are based off of interviews and what people inside the program have been told by the recruit. We struggle with closing, period.

Devyn Ford was ours to lose too. PSU sold him more in 1 visit than multiple trips to VT. He set his commitment date with VT in mind. That's closing.

A. The crystal balls given before a kids junior year are worthless so if that's how you judge this, your whole take on things makes sense to me.

B. It sounds so ridiculous using the phrase "First Name Last Name was ours to lose". These are teenagers who constantly change their mind. You make it seem like they're some Ebay item and our coaches just forgot to log on and bid one last time before bidding expires. Devyn went on his visit and liked the pitch Penn State gave him. Just maybe, it wasn't Tech not closing and it was Devyn found the place he really wanted to be. But, Logging on and bitching is more fun that looking at it that way so people tend to avoid being reasonable about it.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Agree. The whole Crystal Ball thing is constantly changing. I'm sure a lot of schools could make the argument that a recruit was their's to lose at one point and then he went to VT.

I know there have been recruits that we thought we would get and didn't. D. Ford was favored to us for a while. I remember LA or BAG saying that we hit a HR when he officially visited us (hell, he had a surprise encounter with Michael Vick...his favorite player). They also said that PSU hit it out of the park when he visited there.

You also have to think that Devon Hunter, Dax, Nester, Hudson, Payoute, JR Walker, and Tre Turner are some pretty big recruits that the staff have been able to land.

So while we've missed some big recruits, we've also gotten some.

I have noticed that we "can't close" when a recruit picks another school but never hear that we "can close" when we do in fact close or steal away a recruit that was committed or crystal balled elsewhere.

"You don't stare into a rearview mirror"

then you're not paying attention to our OL recruiting ๐Ÿคท

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Correct. Vice has received a tremendous amount of praise from even the most grouchy end of the fan spectrum in regards to recruiting. Bud was properly praised for fending off Clemson and Bama late for Dax Hollifield. The fan base praised the staff for recovering Garbutt, landing Proctor, and flipping Rivers in 17(?).

You can selectively focus on the negativity/positivity extremes, as there are voices who are both too harsh and too protective of the staff. However, I think the majority of the fan base is trying assess the overall situation rationally. I think that majority has a very reasonable level of apprehension at the moment given the current state of this 2020 class. Our current strategy seems rather confusing, and we are looking at a lot of plan C and D type options for an already small class. It's not beyond recovery at the moment, but we will need some big wins to not land with a really disappointing class at the current trajectory.

Agreed. Up until this class (which does have time to turn around), recruiting has steadily increased under Fuente. It won't all be for naught, but we have seen in the past how much of a negative impact a single bad class can have. I think it's been suggested here before that some of the late Beamer era woes were a result of the 2011 class. Recruiting increased again for a couple of years subsequent to that, but the on-field performance didn't pick up again until 2016.

His Official Visit was January 21st he committed to UNC on Feb 1st. Seems like he didn't wait too long to get upset about not being a take.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

So you're trying to tell me high school kids have a mind of their own and like to change their minds rather often and it might not just be our coaches letting kids "slip away"? Get outta town with that nonsense man.

Gobble Till You Wobble

I don't know about you but I knew exactly EVERYTHING my junior and senior year of high school! Never made a bad secession or changed my mind.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Never made a bad secession or changed my mind.

-Jefferson Davis


Don't you mean plaid?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

So we didn't lose much in most of these cases??

Nice work, but none of this tells you how these kids would've done/would do in a hokie uniform... just how they've done elsewhere. Not sure what meaningful insights you can really draw with this information.

Based on the number of kids who medically went out, switched sports, went down to FCS there are plenty who wouldn't have panned out at Tech.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Great so let's compare them to the plan D guys like Glaze that we ended up with instead

That makes way too much sense and is too logical to be on TKP! Just like many of our highest rated recruits haven't planned out. Thanks for posting

I saw on 247, we did well with Charlotte Vance DE Stephen Sings. With their new head coach, G Ferebee, coming from 757 power Indian River, can we assume we might have better footing at that school? Ferebee coached a handful of current and former Hokies while in the 757. Vance is a regular producer of FBS talent, straight loaded this season. I'm a big fan of Sings. He'll need a year or two once he arrives to gain weight but he's got length, bend and high motor which has me all gimme gimme gimme.

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

This is interesting, 5* DE Decommits and re-classifies to an earlier class. It's like he can't wait to not go to Miami


Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

It's like he can't wait to not go to Miami

I can't express how much I love this.

Wasn't there just a thread on how FSU can pay for players now? I'd want to reclassify too. /s

Hokie fan | W&M grad

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

So I try to do this a few times every year to get a read and input on where we stand recruiting wise. As mentioned early in the thread by LAHokie, the class is on life support right now but with the right commits could get us back to the .88 or .89 avg recruit ranking we are looking for regardless of class size. The strategy seems to be slow playing this class due to the small numbers. It looks like the 6 graduating seniors, Jimmie Taylor's medical disqualification, plus about 8-10 other transfers/attrition should put the 2020 class at around 15-18 spots. The first key to this class is going to be locking down 3 of the top 5 in the state (Powell, Lambert, and Greene) followed by continuing to develop depth for what should be 10 win seasons in 2020 and 2021.

C= Committed
T= Top Targets (as far as I know)
QB: 1 (C: Noah Kim, potentially to replace him if better prospect shows interest)
RB: 2 (C: CJ Beasley, T: Marvin Scott, Blake Corum)
TE: 0-1 (T: ? after Hibner haven't seen any fits)
WR: 2-3 (C: Jaylin Hyatt, T: KeAndre Lambert, Jalen Coit)
OT: 0-1 (T: Michael Carmody, Parker Clements)
OG/OC: 1-2 (T: Cooper Mays, Quantavious Leslie, Gary Smith, Vershon Lee)
DE: 1-2 (T: Antwaun Powell, Tyler Baron, Quentin Williams, Stephen Sings, Simeon Barrow)
DT: 1 (T: Tre'vvon Rybka, Isaiah Raikes, Coziah Izzard)
LB: 1-2: (C: Tyreem Powell, T: Jayland Parker)
CB: 1-2: (T: De'Arre McDonald, JaCobee Bryant, Sammy Anderson)
S: 2: (T: Malcolm Greene, Lakeem Rudolph)

Total: 12-19 potential commits (this doesn't include JUCO/Transfer which I think will take up a spot or two every year) Of those top targets, looks like we could realistically land five 4* (Powell, Lambert, Greene, McDonald, and a future 4* in Hyatt). Corum or Scott will both end up 4*'s if we can get one along with some potential to grab a guy like Rybka who could play early at DT. In order to build the depth to compete for championships we need to almost half of our class to be 4* and up. That's going to be a tall task coming off a 6-7 season with a lot of roster depth jammed with underclassmen. Hopefully we can get a minimum of five 4*'s to keep us competitive on the trail until we can get back to taking a big 2021 class loaded with guys that are high on VT (Grimes, J. Hollifield, Henderson, Leigh, K. Evans, Pryor, B. Carter to name a few)

Excellent stuff man. Thanks for putting this together. I've wondered if Fuente wants to slow-play the class into the season so the memory of last year can get lost on recruits by the success of this year.

hopefully Fuente is looking to capitalize on this year's success to cherry pick some talent late. Hopefully this talent is RB, DT and DB, and not more WR! We need some beef at DT and RB, and some skill at DB.